Beech Baron Differences Training

[Trevor Farmer]

Hi there,
Does anybody know the name of a Flight School in the U.K. where one may receive Differences training in a Beech Baron .
Thanks,
Trevor

[foxmoth]

Not sure what you mean here? Differences training on what aspects ("differences" training is for things like - retracts/VP props/turbochargers) or do you mean a checkout on type, which if done by a suitably qualified instructor should cover any of the differences you need anyway?

[Trevor Farmer]

Thanks for the reply Foxmoth. I understand that in order to fly a different type (ie. Make) of multi-engined aircraft I need to undertake "differences training" on that type. Currently I have not flown a Baron so I need to find a school with one and an instructor to sign me off. Maybe I've misunderstood the regs.
Thanks,
Trevor

[sevenstrokeroll]

in the real world you probably should get some training in a baron if you have not flown a baron.

as to european regulations...I don't have a clue (USA)...but I am sure that any responsible insurance company would require you to have a "CHECKOUT" in a plane you are un familiar with.

having said that I flew the turbocharged Beech Baron about 30 years ago...Very nice plane...less than ideal visibility due to engine placement, chap I checked out liked to come in too fast and landed flat too often...I explained that some degree of safety was available using Vxse as a safety speed and using short field techniques. The model I flew had the throttles in the non standard beechcraft method...it also had a throwover controll wheel which I didn't care for as an instructor.

[foxmoth]

I am a little out of date on light twins, but my understanding is that the Baron is not a "complex" type so it is much as sevenstroke says, a checkout (and that not a legal requirement), provided of course you do have all the differences needed to fly it. Otherwise I think you would find you actually need a type rating!:eek:

[ElitePilot]

If you already hold a multi engine piston rating there is no formal differences training just a sensible amount of time for you and the owner/operator to be satisfied. I may be corrected here but if you already hold a MEP rating differences training does not legally need to be by an instructor.
I don't believe it is any different to holding a single engine piston rating, doing a ppl on a Cessna 172, then wanting to be "checked out" to fly a PA28.
Unless there are any differences like fadec or pressurisation of course.
A baron does not need a type rating under JAR.
Fox I think you're confusing the bonanza and baron, barons a light twin.

[foxmoth]

Fox I think you're confusing the bonanza and baron, barons a light twin.

No, just not posting with enough care, and differences that might apply here would be retracts and/or VP props.

[TheiC]

Trevor, you have a PM (private message).

[Genghis the Engineer]

The terms "checkout", "conversion" and "differences training", whilst clearly defined in the regulations, often get inadvertently swapped around. The reality is however that they all amount to "fly with an instructor until you are both happy".

Given that, I think it's perhaps wrong to get too hung up about terminology.

G

[gordon field]

If you intend to fly one of the older Barons that does not have the conventional dual controls then you will need a full check out as many of the primary controls are not in the same logical position as found in other twins.

The power levers are Prop / Throttle / Mixture.

The flap selector is to the left of the power quadrant and the gear to the right so normal after landing checks that call for flaps up often leads to gear up. After landing keep your right hand on the throttles and repeat to yourself, Don't touch anything again and again. When clear of the active engage brain.

For twin training you may find a large central bar joining the P1 and P2 control wheels and if you drop anything on the floor, early ones had wooden floorboards, then forget trying to recover it until you have exited the aircraft.

The older ones had the CBs and fuses located in difficult to see and very difficult to reach positions so read the POH, sit in the aircraft and be able to identify them my feel and carry a torch.

The fuel gauge was not directly linked to the tank selected so you could have full tanks indicated and be quickly running out of fuel.

The key is to read the POH and use the speeds stated therein, many pilots approach too fast and the Baron doesn't stop as quickly as some other twins such as the Cessna 310 as it has smaller brakes.

Don't even think of flying her really slow on one engine and testing the VMCa as if she stalls in that configuration you will probably die as many have.

If you don't have an IMC or IR then don't go near clouds and don't fly it by yourself at night unless you have a fully serviceable autopilot that you know or have a qualified co-pilot with you.

There is not much room up front and no place for a flight bag and you cannot reach on on the floor behind the seats so be prepared.

A tough aircraft but it's long lineage and lack of product improvement over several decades left much to be desired.

The later models are much improved.

Hope you enjoy your flying as much as I did as a Baron owner but on this nice sunny day don't let's talk about the cost of maintenance or the number of screws that need to be removed on the cowling of a P58 Baron.

[BillieBob]

Differences training, as defined in JAR-FCL 1, is mandated between different MEP types in the EASA class and type rating list as explained here. (http://easa.europa.eu/certification/experts/docs/oeb-general/Explanatory_Notes_EASA_List_of_Class_or_Type_Ratings-08042012.pdf) This differences training should be recorded in the pilot logbook in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.230(c)(1).

[Trevor Farmer]

Gordon,
Thanks for that informative reply. The aircraft I intend to fly is a 1985 model which has been refurbished of late. It being a later model I expect that many of those annoying quirks have been resolved. I also trust that a good instructor will sort me out in this department. The question remains however, where to find a school and said instructor in the U.K.!

Trevor

[Whopity]

You only need an aircraft and a qualified instructor, try Bill Tollett (http://www.upliftaviation.com/) at Oxford he used to fly a Baron there.

[4Screwaircrew]

Try Andy Dixon at Goodwood a very experienced instructor who is I am led to believe is operating a Baron on AOC, don't have the company name to hand.

[Trevor Farmer]

Many thanks 4Screwaircrew and Whopity. I'll pursue both those avenues.

Trevor

[foxmoth]

Think the Goodwood setup is Conciair
Our UK private aircraft charter fleet at Conciair (http://www.conciair.co.uk/our-fleet.htm)