Nats dress code

[Londogeezer]

Great! Management have now decided to introduce a dress code. After working for this company for more than a decade, they seem to think having their ATCO's and assistants in ' smart/casual' is going to improve profits. Having read the email from 'management' it seems, somehow we have made them 'sad' by not looking professional. So, it's not the the quality of our work that's getting more business, maybe, but losing thousands of pounds by wearing shorts and flip flops. Alas it seems the days are gone that you can go to work feeling comfortable and relaxed in what one wears. Thanks Prospect you did a great job again. A petty rant I know, but I feel most of my colleagues would agree.
Bye bye flip flops I'll miss you.

[eastern wiseguy]

Time to dust off the ole Tuxedo again then.....?


If they are mandating what we have to wear...will there be an "enhancement" in salary to cover my new "smart casual" dress? Or should I just exhale.......:hmm:

[Slylo Green]

This is one that gripes me, what does it actually matter what you wear to work in our profession.

Do I give a better service wearing shirt and trousers than I do jeans and a t-shirt?

[Sweet Potatos]

In my experience it's something to be embraced. Plus you can really rip the a*se out of it by wearing some ridiculous combinations.

Tuxedo Tuesday is a good un
Dress down Friday = Dress Friday, wear a lovely summer frock

Kilts could be good if you are a Jock.

[Occams Razor]

What, you mean suit and tie isn't the norm everywhere??

[riverrock83]

now is that "Smart Casual" or "Smart/Casual". One means smart or casual, the other means relaxed business dress :E

[orgASMic]

Will it still be the "refugee from a 70s rock festival" look for the tech staff? That were all the rage at West Drayton.

[pudoc]

I suppose they'll introduce 'wear what you want days' and charge you £2 to go to charity. The charity would be sending the managements kids to private school. :}

[Imperator1300]

Great news. I'll put my old SERCO/IAL uniform on e-bay ;).

[Standard Noise]

Or should I just exhale.......http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif

Oh bugger, there go his shirt buttons again!:E

[eastern wiseguy]

there go his shirt buttons again


Cheeky git...never mind I will have my NATS issued smart casual company issued work shirt to fall back on .........:ok:

[ZOOKER]

UNIFORMS ! :E:E

[Brian 48nav]

Haven't checked with the off-spring yet ( he's on an afternoon) to find out what this is all about! But does it mean a return to smelly old M&S suits?

[mikk_13]

Swing through Asia, gets them to dress you fellas in some tailor made gear.

You can have anything you want in your suits, Green pants, yellow jacket, red shoes. Bring some color and happiness to your management.

enjoy

[Talkdownman]

does it mean a return to smelly old M&S suits
.....and a haircut?

[Tableview]

I have always been a great believer in the principle that one works best when in a comfortable environment, and that means that within the bounds of decency and respect for one's colleagues, people should wear what they like.

I broke ground in one company I worked for by rebelling against the 'jacket, proper trousers, and tie' rule and suggesting that my team did the same. Nobody abused it, some people remained 'smart' and other went to 'smart casual' or even 'scruffy casual'. One of my directors told me that I didn't look like the head of a department, to which I replied 'good' which rather took him by surprise. My team were happier, more relaxed and productive, and it gradually spread through the whole department. External customers also appreciated a more relaxed environment.

As far as I am concerned the person who invented ties should have one firmly and tightly tied around his manhood or his neck until the blood stops flowing.

[ZOOKER]

Surely NATS will be employing that Chinese bloke with the glasses, Wok, (or something like that), as 'Director Staff Apparel'. :}
"For the usual fee, plus expenses". (Apologies to Mark Knopfler).

[1985]

Dear All,

As NATS becomes more commercially focussed, Swanwick is increasingly becoming the showpiece of the company and in turn much more exposed to current and future customers. In the past few months we have not only seen a number of UK airline customers but also had potential customers from Qatar, Oman, Japan and Hong Kong visit us here and this will only increase as we continue to grow external business. Swanwick is staffed by highly professional people and I’m sure you’ll all agree that we want to create the best impression with any of our visitors by allowing them to see the professional way in which everyone works and all staff members, around whom the business revolves, rightly take pride in.

As we are now more visible than ever to external visitors it is vital that we also convey this in the way we are all seen. Sadly on recent occasions this hasn't always been the case and this, along with the change in business focus, has led to discussions with both Prospect and PCS about how to ensure we portray ourselves properly. During these discussions, the subject of dress standards has arisen. The need for a dress code has been debated in the past and hasn't previously been thought necessary, however that has now changed.

Having consulted with our trade union colleagues, Swanwick Management are committed to promoting a more professional and therefore smarter form of dress from Monday to Friday, as this is when we have the majority of visitors.

At the moment we have agreed that it is not necessary to be overly prescriptive and so there will be no strict rules associated with this. However as a rule of thumb smart/casual’ should be considered as the benchmark. If you require guidance on what ‘smart/casual’ should constitute then your line manager or Ops Supervisor will be able to help you.


Sooooo, Swanwick only then? Seems fair considering there are no other units in NATS........ Don't Prestwick and the towers get visitors then?

To be fair i have noticed alot more visitors in the ops room recently, standing behind me, talking loudly, leaning over a vacant assistants position so they can see ifacts. I wonder if they'll be more offended by my flip flops or by me telling them to bugger off because they are distracting me?

The way i dress has nothing to do with how proffessionally i do my job, and frankly either a visitor can tell that or not by how i'm working not by what i'm wearing.

[anotherthing]

Is it really that much for NATS to ask its employees who get paid a lot of money, to wear smart clothes?

By smart it does not mean chinos and shirt. It means no jeans with the arse ripped out of them or T-shirts with obscene messages written on them. The e-mail that announced it gave very good reasons why they are asking for this.

For the amount of money we get paid, I personally don't think it is to much to ask.

FFS, they even say it is only Mon-Fri when visitors are more likely to appear.

[obwan]

ZOOKER

Uniform dress already exists. It consists of grubby jeans and a stained crumpled T shirt. Everbody trying to look hip and individual end up looking exactly the same.:E

[ZOOKER]

1985,
But it obviously affects your spelling and proof-reading!

[ZOOKER]

obwan,
loving your work. At my last unit there was a supervisor who dressed like a schoolboy. Stood out like a dog's whats'it. :E

[1985]

1985,
But it obviously affects your spelling and proof-reading!


Sorry, pressed send in mid rant. But you are right i can't spell, makes being an ATCO the perfect job for me.

[obwan]

What's wrong with schoolboys? At my old school, Eton College, we were always beautifully turned out.:E

[eastern wiseguy]

What if my area colleagues decide that they WON'T adhere to a dress code?
Will this be a disciplinary offence?
What negotiations did the unions have about it with their members?
How come this seems to be the first that we have heard about it?

It all started when Barron ditched the tie!! :E

[ZOOKER]

Anyway, there are no financial penalties associated with a 'smart-casual dress code'.
Monies saved due to the management/Prospect booze-ban can easily be diverted to to more sartorial channels. :ok:

[Tigersaw]

Back to the days of jackets with leather patches on the elbows and a pipe seems in order

[ZOOKER]

Very sad that the smarter dress only applies from Monday to Friday. At my unit, we had many visitors at weekends too, when traffic loadings were lighter, and the chances of distraction were lower.
'Trainers' denims, flip-flops and 'hoodies' should really be reserved for night-duties.
I had the pleasure of visiting EGVAZT during Sunday's RIAT a few years ago. All the volunteer ATC staff were 'smart-casual', in custom polo-shirts.

[obwan]

Barron thought he was a real business person, like that Branson chap and he didn't wear a tie. Why do the unions have to get involved if an employer wants to stop their staff coming in to work looking like the Beverly Hillbillies?(somebody explain to those under the age of 50)

[GAPSTER]

This was always going to come with the upsurge in beachwear in the Ops room...I'm no lover of management and their present day wannabe corporate BS but I also can't stand flip flops and board shorts.We brought it on ourselves.

[ZOOKER]

It is interesting to note that, on the NATS public website, many of the names and photographs of the 'Executive Team' have disappeared.
Also, all the new appointees are, like the CEO, tie-wearers

[Captain Smithy]

What's the fuss? An employer has requested a dress code. Big deal. Most of the rest of the world does. Is it really that much to ask people to put on a smart pair of jeans and a shirt?

We don't bother at my unit but we still don't come dressed as tramps. Flip flops to work? Jeepers Creepers Almighty. :rolleyes:

[Gonzo]

Can I claim a waistcoat on expenses?

[anotherthing]

they're only asking for smart dress, not fancy dress, Gonzo :)

[5milesbaby]

Not happy.

If I want to sit there in jeans and a tee, then why not? I find the ops room warm ALL the time and find this the most comfortable. I have also worn tailored shorts and flip flops on extremely hot days and probably looked smarter than others on watch.

Some people just need to lighten up and start facing far more important issues :ugh::ugh:

[Talkdownman]

Back to the days of jackets with leather patches on the elbows and a pipe seems in order
If you ask Watch Supervisor Cholmondly-Warner nicely will you be allowed to remove said jackets when it's hot...?

[glans tomlinson]

Christ! 75k plus and complaining about the dress code!! Please have a look at the local situations vacant pages in the local rag.:ugh:

[Hotel Tango]

I support casual wear. Unfortunately in more recent years the interpretation of "casual" has become ridiculously stupid, even obscene, with some people. I remember the other extreme when I started way back in the late sixties. It was strictly shirt and tie, or if no tie, shirt and jacket. On very hot days the Supervisor would authorise us to take our ties off! Casual (but neat) was allowed on nights and weekends. I think that there's plenty of scope to wear comfortable and casual clothes without descending to the appaling standards and poor taste that some of the newer generation have adopted.

[ZOOKER]

Meanwhile, in the 'Real World'....

Mrs Z recently applied for a part-time position, (less than 10 of your Earth hours per-week), with a well-known food retailer.

The 3 stage interview and assessment-centre/group exercise process was 3 times longer than the enjoyable procedure that I went through in the late 1970s, which lead to 31 years as an ATCO.
'Human Resources' people, - don't you just love 'em.

Dress code:- Hair must be tied back in a pony-tail, no heels over 2'', no long nails, no nail-varnish, all 'tattoos' must be concealed, etc,
All the above to sit on a 'supermarket workstation', i.e. checkout.
Issued with uniform and 'Hi-Viz' prior to joining.

Needless to say, - position rejected.

[Londogeezer]

Having started this thread I knew there would be the stalwart proletariat on the shop floor feeeling the pain. ATCO's in the TMA seem to me to take the brunt of management sh*te. Doing the best job in Europe if not the world. Yet we're judged on our outwardly appearance instead of the job that most people are incapable of doing. Oh yes we earn loads of cash, in my day we wore suits. Well boll*cks to them, I do not care what they think. This is a message to the TMA, talk to your prospect member and let your thoughts be heard. Let's face it, flip flops now, pay deal, pensions, working conditions next. Make a stand bros and ho's

[anotherthing]

"Doing the best job in Europe, if not the World"
Think a little highly of yourself then, eh?!!

I think the union would be better served fighting real battles, not the right to wear flip flops, and besides, jeans are more than acceptable under the term 'smart casual'.

I overheard someone the other day moaning to a colleague that the union had not been consulted over the slightly amended way to indicate when you are available for AVA's (Swanwick) on the intranet. No wonder our Reps have so many days TOiL when they feel they should spend tie out of the Ops room getting involved in things that are so trivial.

Meanwhile, I bet pay negotiations for implementation in Jan 2013 are not underway... I know it is only May, but can anyone remember when we last got a pay deal in on time? Granted last time round it was a protracted negotiation but every time the union seems to forget how long things take to do. I'm sure management have a say in when they start talking pay, but that's surely a better thing to worry about than whether or not we can wear flip flops?

The union should be concentrating on proper issues that truly affect Ts and Cs, not spending 2 or 3 days a month attending canteen committees or getting wound up about trivial matters.

[Nimmer]

For God's sake Londogeezer, grow up. A suggested "dress code" is not worth getting excited about.

As a group we lost our chance to stand up and be counted when we accepted the "pension" deal 3 years ago.

Climb down from your glass tower, or walk out of the door of your glass TMA and take a look at what is happening in the "real" world, enjoy the fact we have a good well paid job, which is "recession "proof. (at the moment):

[Ceannairceach]

I don't think dressing reasonably smartly is too much to ask at all.

Even I sometimes cringe when people rock up to work wearing beach shorts, flip flops (yes, even at Prestwick), t-shirts emblazoned with stuff - or, my pet hate, jeans half way down their backsides. I have no desire to see people's anuses at work :E

Smart casual includes most appropriate forms of wear including jeans and stuff. So this is a non-issue.

[anotherthing]

Anuses, or Ani?! :}

[Il Duce]

Standard dress on weekdays will be:
Open-crotch balaclava, barbed-wire vest and bowler hat (with sleeves).
Weekends will be more relaxed.

[hangten]

people rock up to work wearing beach shorts, flip flops (yes, even at Prestwick)

Ha ha! Hardcore.

No issues here. It's a shame that anything has to be said, it's work afterall, smart casual should be a minimum.

I think the union would be better served fighting real battles, not the right to wear flip flops, and besides, jeans are more than acceptable under the term 'smart casual'.

Strongly agree.

Doing the best job in Europe if not the world. Yet we're judged on our outwardly appearance instead of the job that most people are incapable of doing.

I wonder if you realise how you sound. :yuk:

I know how lucky I am to have the ability to do my job in the first instance, and to be given the opportunity in the second. The reality of the world of business and consultancy, in fact the reality of the world, is that first impressions count for something (not everything) and it's in all of our interests for NATS to be thought of highly.

[anotherthing]

The union have published a letter stating they were consulted and are happy with what management have written.

The reality of the world of business and consultancy, in fact the reality of the world, is that first impressions count for something (not everything) and it's in all of our interests for NATS to be thought of highly.Wise words.

Like it or not, NATS is a business and Swanwick is, and this is no disrespect to any other unit, seen to be a prime unit. We are going to see more prospective customers in the future, and it is in our interest that NATS looks good to them. A strong business means that NATS will have no excuse to attack the pension, amongst other things.

Maybe that line of thinking is beyond some people, even the ones who 'can do a job very few others can'

[throw a dyce]

You could have shirts made up to the company logo colour combinations.:cool::cool::cool:
Different colour/wavy lines for different days.Or different colours for status,as in Star Trek.After all you should be proud to advertise the company brand.:eek:
I know very good tailor in Hong Kong.For you very special price,ready in an hour.:ok:

[P6 Driver]

Reading this makes me feel that a couple of people need to grow up and get on with it.

If you feel strongly about your employer laying down some simple rules about a dress code - vote with your feet and leave (Oh, I thought not...).

:rolleyes:

[fisbangwollop]

ATC is a world of definitions so kindly can someone define "Smart/Casual"........what is smart/casual to this 58 year old may not be the same to my 28 year old Son...........he pays over £100 for a pair of jeans full of holes, I tend to buy a perfect pair for a tenner from my mate John Hargreaves's little empire so who is the smarter?......anyway as for myself May-September is the months for shorts despite some crappy Scottish weather so hopefully that's how it will have to be.......:cool:

[On the beach]

"I know very good tailor in Hong Kong. For you very special price,ready in an hour."

Right, I'll have a nice dark jacket with four big gold bars on each sleeve. Oh, and a cap with lots of those nice gold leaves on the peak. The biggest dilemma is should I wear a cravat?

Anyway, that should impress these visiting foreign johnnies and demonstrate how good I am at my job.

Now where's that T-shirted, ripped-jeaned oick with my afternoon pot of Earl Grey?

OTB :E

[blueskythinking]

londogeezer...... really? That is the most hilarious post ever. I shall look forward to you announcing your angry resignation. with your superhuman skills another job allowing you to wear your beachwear should be no problem. If carling did controllers.......!

[Basil]

What's wrong with coming to work looking smart?
When I was an ATCO I wore a jacket, tie and cap.
I think I can safely say that the arresting officer lacked a sense of humour! :}



No, honest, I did, but it was in the RAF in the seventies ;)

[obwan]

I have to say this is the best thread ( no pun intended) since the run up to the MACC closure, well done Londogeezer, keep the trivia coming.

[Ceannairceach]

Smart/casual just means use your common sense. That's all.

[throw a dyce]

OTB,
My tailor does a very nice line in tuxidos and kilts as well.You could have the Nats tartan.:ooh:
Ready in 3 hours.Next to Mid Levels escalator,you know where that is.:ok:

[On the beach]

TAD,

Mmm, tuxedos, eh? Only for the evening, though. And perhaps a velvet smoking jacket for the mornings.

NATS tartan - That must be where the phrase "Ooh, he looks Natty", derived from.

Natty meaning - smart, good, cool.

Well a kilt would be cool.

Anyway, sun's over the yardarm, time for a preprandial. "Waiter"

OTB :E

Ah, the Mid-levels escalator. There lies the path to a mis-spent past!! :=

[obwan]

I went on strike once, it was on the telly and everything, is that not industrial action?

[windowjob]

Come on HD, time to dust off the old 3ft wide bow tie you wore at LL one day when a comment was made about dress code.

Every time he turned round it was like a Laurel and Hardy comedy with anyone close being hit! :ok:

[WetFeet]

I remember, back in 1975 at Gatwick, a certain Mr. RT took to wearing his tennis gear to work. He was pulled up for it and told to wear a tie. Next day he turned up for work wearing a tie. It went very well with his tennis shorts and Fred Perry polo shirt. They dropped the idea after that.

[Brian 48nav]

Ian, I thought you did your 8 years as an Argosy man - or was the ATC posting the reason you left! It was mine; then I ended up spending the rest of my career as an ATCO anyway! Tant Pis as the Frogs say.

Talkdown Man

I thought you liked my 'ageing Rock Star' appearance.

Strike

1981 lots did!

Shorts

Was I the first to wear them at LL? (1987), HD or Window Job might know. If so, look what I started!

Off-spring tells me that the Union has not agreed with 'dress code' yet, to be discussed at next shop stewards meeting!

BW

[anotherthing]

Off-spring tells me that the Union has not agreed with 'dress code' yet, to be discussed at next shop stewards meeting!Strange, because there is a letter from Prospect, on the TC Ops door stating that NATS are entitled to run the Ops dept etc the way they wish, if it is reasonable, and that the Union did not feel they needed to get involved in this instance... they do not oppose what management have said and are aware.

[chevvron]

When I joined as an ATCA 3 in '69, my first day in the Ops room at LATCC, Frank Langthorne the senior ATCA told us we were expected to wear ties on weekday daytime duties but it wasn't 'expected' on nights or at weekends. One ATCA 2 (CW) arrived without a tie one day, was told off, and next day came in wearing a tie with a huge nude female picture on it! On nights he would wear a torn t-shirt.
Many years later at Farnborough, Ted van Dort would wear a bow tie when carrying out morning briefings for the flying display, so we all wore them too. When he went we kidded his successor Don Hickson that it was traditional that the SATCO wear a bow tie for briefings, showing him a picture of 'Mac' Pearson to prove it. Apparently he wasn't aware that Mac always wore a bow tie.

[Basil]

Brian, I did a short ATC ground tour at Wyton before I left. I think the posting may have had something to do with asking about PVR whilst on the Argosy at Cottesmore. They said "Oh, yes, keep your nose clean (What!?) and you'll get a Herc command." :rolleyes: Hmm, difficult decision. Anyway, I haven't fallen asleep in the loo again.
Thread creep story - no, wait, it's about dress: Flt.Lt. colleague in uniform in (IIRC) Benson mess bar one night. Borrows other Flt.Lt's. shirt slides and becomes instant Gp. Capt.
Pulls a Basil in the loo, falls off and remains asleep. Staff member goes into loo and perceives Stn. Cdr. passed out in stall. Panic ensues - SDO called etc. :}

[Basil]

tailor . . . Mid Levels escalator
Is that near the bondage shop with the leather teddy-bear in the window? :}

[rolaaand]

Fuss about nothing. No one has ever turned up for work in clothes that offend me. I wear shorts when it's warm, hoodies when it's cold, full highland dress on St Andrew's day and baggy, comfy stuff on a night shift.
The jobs I had pre Nats all had a dress code. As a hotel manager I was always in a suit and when I worked in a supermarket they provided uniforms. I really don't mind a dress code.
I work at Prestwick and the Nats staff are the only ones who don't have a uniform. Security, restaurant staff,cleaners and of course the RAF are all smarter than the ops room staff. Nats could always spend a few quid and get us all a few branded shirts,t shirts etc.
My normal dress is jeans,t shirt and trainers and I don't intend on changing that. On the very rare occasions that I represent Nats outside of work (did a school visit last year to do a presentation on ATC, fam flights etc) I smarten up appropriately.

[On the beach]

"Is that near the bondage shop with the leather teddy-bear in the window?"

And the dungeon underneath?

Never heard of it!!

Mind you it does conjure up all sorts of "dress code" images.

OTB :E

[DX Wombat]

Having worn uniform all my working life I'm not going to enter this debate which, from what I can make out seems to involve just the gentlemen of the species. I have just a couple of suggestions to make, one is the shorts suit. I was once passed by a very smart-looking businessman in Perth West Oz. He wore beautiful shiny black brogues which would have pleased any nit-picking Sergeant Major, carried an equally smart briefcase and brolly and wore a shorts suit - tailored shorts and jacket, cream knee-length socks and the whole outfit surmounted by an immaculate bowler hat.
Shorts Suit (ignore the footwear):
http://whyyoumad.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/dsc03536.jpg
Should this not be quite to your taste you could always go for the Lord Mayor of London look. :E
http://www.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article814580.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Mayor+of+London+Boris+Johnson+seen+arriving+at+his+new+home+ in+Islington,+London+on+his+bike+in+shorts,+then+leaving+on+ it+agin+after+changing+into+a+suit

[P6 Driver]

How would it work if the union negotiated an alternative deal where those who adopt a dress code of smart/casual keep their full pay, but those rebellious anarchists who just refuse to toe the line but don't feel strongly enough about their position to actually resign over it (i.e. all of them), take a suitable pay cut?

No, I didn't think you'd do that either.
;)

[Minesthechevy]

Basil -

Please send details of this bondage shop

DAMN I thought that was a PM ........:ugh::ugh:

[ZOOKER]

DX,
The 'Boris Look' is really where it's at.
The NATS Environment Director, (whose picture has mysteriously disappeared from the public website), trumpeted a reduction in CO2 from a reduction in staff commuting.
Everyone is cycling to work these days, (allegedly). So, with the loot saved on unleaded/diesel, smart/casual can be purchased.
2 'quick wins' for management then. :ok:

[radarman]

What's wrong with a dress code FFS? What do all the flip flop and torn jeans hooligans do if they take the wife/gf to a restaurant or club that has a code? Tell the bouncer/maitre d' to eff off? No, I bet they dress accordingly. If they're invited to a wedding, do they turn up in beach shorts and T shirts, saying 'How I dress has no bearing on my good wishes for the happy couple.' Nah! For goodness sake I wish you so-called professionals would grow up and stop behaving like petulant teenagers.

[wanderover]

Guys you have become the scruffiest proffesionals I have ever known. Engineers used to be the jeans and T-shirts, now it is the controllers. Smarten up guys.

[ZOOKER]

wanderover,
You're not wrong.
A few years ago, I was asked to show a party of visitors around a NATS unit.
At the 'de-brief' afterwards, a lady said she had enjoyed the visit immensely, she was slightly less apprehensive about flying, as a result, and commented on the "scruffiest collection of highly-trained professionals" she had ever seen.
O.K. it was a Saturday morning duty.
A year back, on the LAG I was working on, only myself and the 3 lady ATCOs/ATSAs had 'shoes' on. Everyone else was wearing 'trainers'. One ATCO was even wearing 'builder's trousers' too, with big pockets for hammers and chisels etc.

P.S.
I used to wear my slippers on TWR night-shifts though. Nice'n cozy! :E

[radarman]

One ATCO was even wearing 'builder's trousers' too, with big pockets for hammers and chisels etc.

Did he show his 'cleavage' when he bent over, and could his hammer be seen through his pocket?

[10W]

The solution is in NATS hands. Almost every other service industry company which wants to project a brand image or smart staff to the public provides them with a uniform. That allows little leeway for personal interpretation of the rules or arguments about what is and isn't acceptable. Branded polo shirts and other attire should be provided if NATS require a consistent dress code which projects the image they want.

Or we could go for airline style uniforms with gold bars on the epaulettes. Got to be at least 7 stripes for a Supervisor ;)

[Eric T Cartman]

A supervisor with 7 bars per shoulder - that'll require a well balanced individual ;)

[Mantovani]

Why are posts criticising the OP being deleted?

If he's man enough to send a message to the TMA why isn't he man enough to hear the reply?

[eastern wiseguy]

So IIIIFFFFFF NATS were to bring in uniforms......would my band 2 one be less sparkly and shiny than a band 5?




grabs NATS issued coat and leaves

[fisbangwollop]

ERIC T A supervisor with 7 bars per shoulder - that'll require a well balanced individual

No...just someone with broad shoulders :cool:

[DX Wombat]

that'll require a well balanced individual In NATS? :} :oh:
You know, you could really have some fun with NATS-provided uniforms. When my sister was driving vehicles in Oz she asked for a handbag to be provided for all the bits and pieces connected with her work which she was required to cart around. Handbag was duly issued but then came the protests from the male employees who regarded the handbag as a perk. Bosses responded by saying that all employees, male or female, were entitled to a handbag but that the bags must be seen to be used for work. :E Now, just imagine the fun you could have - the ladies given the choice of skirt, dress, (with necessary provision for tights, stockings etc) or trousers and then what for the gentlemen? Equal opportunities etc dictates that what is good enough for one is good enough for the other. :E Someone earlier on suggested a special NATS tartan this would solve the skirt problem for the gentlemen who may prefer not to have to wear a skirt or dress and would keep the Scots happy. Kilts all round? Nice and airy so would help to keep everyone cool. Just let your imagination run riot - it could be fun. ;)

[10W]

Why are posts criticising the OP being deleted?

Why has my post suggesting P6 Driver keep his nose out of this NATS thread been deleted?


Posts which breach the following PPRuNe rules will be subject to removal.

•No flaming/personal attacks. (Play the ball, not the player.)
•No swearing, sexually explicit or vulgar language.

Shouldn't be too hard for people to understand what they signed up to, and comply with.

[Mantovani]

I know this forum is moderated but surely pointing out how childish, self-centred and self-important a posting is is fair comment. No one living in the real world would kick-up a stink about not being allowed to wear flip flops to work.

Incidentally the OP calls his colleagues in the TMA
bros and ho's
Why is that insult allowed?

From Wikitionary
Noun
ho (plural hos or hoes)
1. (slang, pejorative) A whore; a sexually loose woman; in general use as a highly offensive name-calling word for a female with connotations of loose sexuality.

[wlatc]

Presenting a professional appearance has become anathema to ATC professionals. In the USA, I believe it is because the dress code was seen as one of the few management imposed rules that might be negotiable back in the 1970's.

"You may be able to make us toe the company line as to pay, hours of work, etc., but this is a free country and I'll be damned if you can tell me how to dress!"

The result was the sloppier the better, and FAA decided it wasn't worth the fight. To this day many USA controllers look like bums at work. They believe that nobody sees them, so what's the big deal.

Actually, lots of people do see them, either in person as they come and go to work, online and in the press. Maybe it's time for a bit of self-evaluation by some controllers as to how they dress for work.

[Lon More]

When I joined as an ATCA 3 in '69, my first day in the Ops room at LATCC,
We must have both been on the same watch. One of the A men ( Mike ??)later got a rollicking for his dress and turned up the next day in a pin-stripe suit, bowler hat and rolled up umbrella with a copy of the FT under his arm.

Why has my post suggesting P6 Driver keep his nose out of this NATS thread been deleted?
Who died and made you God? If you want a post to be NATS only post it in the appropriate place.

IIRC I heard a story one of the ATCAs at Southern (that dates it) asked for appropriate clothing to be issued (ex-mil. obviously) and was provided with a brown storeman's type coat.

[DC10RealMan]

This thread is directed specifically at the NATS employees at Swanwick and as one who worked at Swanwick for many years I have followed this thread with some interest and in my opinion the manner of dress of employees is a "bit of a red herring", but is or possibly was symptomatic of Swanwick and its culture.

I first went to Swanwick approximately one year prior to its opening to work in the ATC Training Section and was shocked by the culture change from the old ATC centre at West Drayton, near LHR. There were many disparaging remarks about "Those people from West Drayton" who were the operational ATC staff who were due to transfer to Swanwick when the West Drayton centre closed even though few operational staff had visited the Swanwick Centre.

In my opinion the Swanwick centre had an "office culture" which was ill-suited to the change to a 24/365 facility that it later became and manifested itself in the perception that "real people" worked in offices and the buliding and its facilities worked to that ethos, whereas the "operational resources" worked in the Operations Room. This perception resulted in the office working personnel working in the established shirts and ties whereas the "operational resources" dressed in "relaxed manner" because they did not matter anyway and attitudes became entrenched and became evident from their individual dress code.

I would also make the observation that this culture is not unique to Swanwick or NATS and I remember taking a friend of mine who was a British Airways training Captain to Swanwick for a visit. My friend had spent many hours with me on duty both at LHR and West Drayton and found the whole experience facinating, however after about one hour at Swanwick he asked to leave and even I could sense that he felt uncomfortable.
We had lunch at the Jolly Sailor and he confided that his experience at Swanwick was identical to his experiences at the new BA HQ at Waterside under the then Chairman Robert Ayling where real people worked at Waterside and then there were the "troublesome wasters" over at the airport who flew and operated aeroplanes and in my friends opinion at that time the airline "lost the plot"

I left Swanwick four years ago and my observations may not be valid anymore, but I would suggest that the dress code issue is more to do with individual, group, or corporate identity than whether one wears a tie or not.

[Gonzo]

...and any thoughts about the possibly even stronger 'who the **** are all those office people at the CTC? What do they do all day?' culture that seems prevalent amongst the watchkeeping staff?

Explaining away the lack of smart dress as a symptom of operational people not being welcomed with open arms when Swanwick opened, and beginning to feel that they did not matter, is a bit of a red herring in itself, surely?

I just find it really sad that some people appear far more worked up about the possibility that they may be asked to think about how they are perceived by potential customers (just take a moment and think about that word!) than by training matters, recruitment, changing skills, the safety system ridding ATCOs of the ability to think for themselves and use ability and experience and all the other far, far more important issues we have to deal with.

But hey, my manager has just asked me to not look so scruffy, maybe wear trousers and a pair of shoes rather than shorts and flipflops, so I'm off on strike. Who's with me?

[arthur j negus esq]

But hey, my manager has just asked me to not look so scruffy, maybe wear trousers and a pair of shoes rather than shorts and flipflops, so I'm off on strike. Who's with me?

You've hit the nail on the head Gonzo. There are plenty of us at NSL units facing potential loss of contracts, who would gladly abide by a dress code!!!

[Buster the Bear]

Are you scruffy chaps affecting the sale price of NATS to future investors?

[ZOOKER]

I have a NATS tie. Failed my Approach Radar Rating practical in 1981 whilst wearing it.
Just after Red's big re-brand, I was furtling around on NATSnet, (as you do), and found the 'corporate gift pages. I wanted to get a pair of NATS cuff-links, but I wasn't allowed to buy any.
"These items are for potential customers" the lady said.
"But surely I am a potential customer?" said I.
"No, that's not what I mean, I suggest you speak to your 'line-manager'", said she.
Never got my cuff-links. A shame, they looked quite smart with the swirly stripes on.

[Ceannairceach]

Pity I didn't know about that Zooker, I could have put some of said cufflinks and other items from the "corporate gift pack" your way including a very natty notebook and a cracking pen.

All quality stuff you understand.

[On the beach]

I've got a pair of NATS cuff-links.

Was that a sartorial hint from my ex-colleagues or was it my leaving present?

OTB :cool:

[chevvron]

I wanna pair!! My 25 year gift was a pair of lead glass/silver vases with an insurance value of about £800; I never knew cufflinks were available and even now I'm only a FISO (after 34 years as an ATCO with NATS) I still wear 'proper' shirts and ties to work.
When I was still at LATCC before my cadet course, Pete Wyre, then a crew chief, told me (with a smirk on his face) he'd just been 'pulled' by the Watch Manager not only for taking his jacket off, but horror of horrors, he was wearing a SHORT SLEEVED shirt!
Pete later became SATCO Boscombe Down, until he had the audacity to do an MOD(PE) Air Observers course which involved parachuting out of an Andover off Portland. He was quickly posted out.

[radarman]

I've got a NATS biro. Cheap and nasty corporate gift sort of thing- nothing you would treasure. Also had a NATS coffee mug that changed colour and the NATS swirly stripes appeared when you put hot coffee inside. Got sweet FA from the company when I retired though, not even a letter wishing me well. (Actually I think they were glad to get rid of me - bit of a thorn in management's side).

[Brian 48nav]

Lon More,my friend,no-one has 'died and made me God',but what a great idea that would be for a thread - what would you change (I suppose it will have to be in aviation terms) if you became The Big Boss.

I assume you did not see my post in which I suggested 'tongue in cheek', and with 3 smilies,that as P6 Driver is not a NATS ( or even civilian) ATCO his inputs on dress,no doubt also made tongue in cheek,are not relevant.

He is a serviceman, who recently made a post in the Military Aircrew section regarding receiving his pension in a few weeks time, when he is 55 I believe.A serviceman's take on working life and conditions is often markedly different from a civilians,I know because I spent 8 years as a navigator in the RAF and my eldest son spent 20 years as a pilot. When a service boss says 'jump', you reply 'how high Sir', whereas in civvy street when a boss , let's say a NATS manager, says to someone like a well-trained and well-motivated ATCO, 'Jump', they reply 'Why,what for,if you show me a good reason,then I will jump'.

When I did my Aerodrome training at Brum' dear old Dave Vaughan waved an IPCS application form under my nose. 'I don't like unions' says I,'Typical ex-RAF response' says Dave 'You'll see the light eventually'.

Of course he was right, the penny eventually dropped that union membership wasn't just about pay and strikes, but all sorts of terms and conditions of service.

Back to the OP, who in principle I agree with (and so does my other son, a Swanwick controller), although he did overstate his case somewhat. The union should be looking at every aspect of T & C's, as if management think they can impose their will in one area and win, it won't be too long before another area is under attack.

Finally for those who float the idea of some sort of uniform or corporate identity dress, be careful what you wish for! Polo shirts and chinos may be fine today but you bet that in a few years time we will hear of items such as jewellery and crucifixs being banned - just look at BA!

Back to my bathchair, regards to all, Brian W

[Talkdownman]

I wanna pair!!
Would you not prefer a nats cravat...?

[P6 Driver]

As I'm one of the people who have had no chance to see the post about me that has so upset someone as to cause them to break the rather simple forum rules about the nature of posts, could someone be kind enough to PM me with details please?

I apologise if my two posts have caused someone to lose their "cyber self-control", but please remember;

1. It's only the internet.

2. I am as well qualified to make posts on this site as many readers.

3. There's a button in the top right corner of the screen which will sort out your problem for you.

There now, done without resort to personal attacks or abuse.
:)

[chevvron]

TDM:
Weather's always so b0ll0cky when I'm at work I rarely wear cravats nowadays. Check your e-mails.
PS Remember our GATCO visit to Plessey Radar at Cowes? All the blokes were given ties and all the birds got headscarves. What Don Hickson got I can't remember.

[DX Wombat]

all the birds headscarvesWas this a H&S attempt to avert birdstrikes?
OK, OK, I'm going.

[soaringhigh650]

Lots of disgruntled (former) employees on here, it seems.

[On the beach]

"Lots of disgruntled (former) employees on here, it seems."

See, that's what happens when you give a pair of cuff-links to the short-sleeved slackers. Or give a tie to a T-shirted oick. Management needs to think outside the b......x. :E

OTB

Any bids for my NATS cuff-links? I was distressed to find that my only long-sleeved shirt seems to have buttons at the sleeves, so rendering the nice cuff-link idea rather obsolete.

[throw a dyce]

100 drachmas.:)

[chevvron]

5.492226 Polish New Zloty (Pln)

[Scrappydo]

This whole thread has made me chuckle soooo much!!!:D
If only we all had a dress code to worry about! Folks are losing jobs all over the place and people are moaning cos they might have to put on a pair of trousers instead of a pair of jeans!!! How bonkers is that? They should be thrown to the lions!!

[DX Wombat]

Maybe you should have some NATS Uniform Trial Sessions run by NATS International Trade Supplies before you decide.

[rab-k]

Maybe you should have some NATS Uniform Trial Sessions run by NATS International Trade Supplies before you decide.

I hear this ensemble has been short-listed at Swanwick...

http://www.wondercostumes.com/imgzoom/lounge-lizard-costume-69401.jpg

[rab-k]

Likewise this one at Prestwick...

http://www.fancydressball.co.uk/big_images1/brave-scotsman-costume-31114.jpg

[tczulu]

DX Wombat,love it! NUTS &NITS

[DX Wombat]

tczulu :) Just a bit of fun. :ok:

[On the beach]

Is that the NATS tartan?

Looks like a tablecloth.

Mind you my "Black Watch" tartan looks a bit like a blanket. :E

OTB

[Tableview]

Any bids for my NATS cuff-links?http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Zimbabwe_$100_trillion_2009_Obverse.jpg

Don't spend it all at once!

[radarman]

Tableview,

You're a cheapskate, out to con OTB! Your Zim note was dated 2008? What's a hundred trill worth now?

[chevvron]

Due to a fluctuating exchange rate, my bid is now Pln 5.521413.

[On the beach]

Blimey, I'm still doing the long division on the exchange rate for my 100 trillion Zimbo dollars to see if I should accept the very generous offer. Now the Polish New Zloty has appreciated, or have I got that wrong? Or should I accept the drachmas? That could be a very smart move given that the Greeks are going to have to give back all their Euros. Hehe, I'd have the only 100 drachmas in existence. Mmm, what to do.

Meanwhile, my vote goes to the very dapper pink number being modelled by the Swanwick Sector Controller. How do I know this? Well look at his left hand. His thumb is about to hit the Press-to-Talk switch on the airbrushed-out mic box. What a guy.

OTB :E

P.S. The cuff-links come in a very nice see-through, plastic box.
-.. .-. . ... ... / -.-. --- -.. .

[The Many Tentacles]

Must be a TC controller then as we're not trusted with push to talk switches in AC :}

[jackieofalltrades]

Lots of disgruntled (former) employees on here, it seems.

Why is it you never seem to hear about gruntled employees?

[obwan]

I have never felt more gruntled, probably 'cos I don't go to work anymore.:D

[Not Long Now]

Popped into the ops room for the first time today since the royal edict was issued, and surprise surprise, absolutely no difference.

[Baltasound]

You can claim tax relief for your uniform (well, we can for our natty pale blue Network Rail t-shirts); one of which I am currently modelling in between trains.

Mind you the thickness of the material diminshes each year it seems.

[dikastes]

Dress for Success: BC Professional Dress Code (http://www.dba-oracle.com/dress_code.htm)

[Mantovani]

No difference? There's a distinct absence of flip-flops and beach shorts in TC.

[Not Long Now]

Must be looking in a different ops room...

[Vortex Issues]

No difference? There's a distinct absence of flip-flops and beach shorts in TC.

Crap weather!

[TractorBoy]

For some bizarre reason I always pictured you all sitting there dressed a la Frank'N'Furter in Rocky Horror....


http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsmovie/asstd_movie/rhps.jpg

Farnborough Radar... request Traffic Service

[terrain safe]

In just 7 days... I can give a deconfliction serviceeeeeeee.

[Rossoneri]

Businesspersons should dress as human beings - Richard's Blog - Virgin.com (http://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/blog/businesspersons-should-dress-as-human-beings)

Maybe tshirts and jeans are acceptable......

[ZOOKER]

[email protected] obviously has a different agenda. :E
'Land-Rover' polo shirts might look nice. :ok:

[Minesthechevy]

Land Rover polo shirts should have been made compulsory ......

[ZOOKER]

Well, I'd certainly be wearing one, Chevy. :ok:
And what about a 'Hoze-lock' Tee-shirt for those at CATC? :E

[Minesthechevy]

Zooker, YH a PM

...whats the reference to Hozelock? That one passed me by...