NATS - vacation days for ATCOs

[tonialmeida]

Hi all,

Could someone tell me how many vacation days do ATCOs working for NATS have? I have read that 45+ calendar days, but unsure if that's any accurate. I have read in other forums that in France they have much more and in Spain FerroNATS is offering significantly less (i.e. 30 calendar days!), so would much appreciate if someone could give me a hint of aprox days-off at NATS.

Many thanks in advance!

[Avoiding_Action]

28 plus bank holidays

[whitelighter]

28 plus bank holidays rising to 33 after 10 years service.

At most units, that will give you 12 weeks off a year if you take 6 two week breaks (28 days that is)

[Gonzo]

28 days Annual Leave, plus Public Holidays, up to 8 years of service, then 30 days up to 10 years of service, then 33.

Also, some units have locally agreed working practice agreements that means they may have a few days time off in lieu per year.

At the 24 hour units, shift workers are on a 6 on, 4 off roster (technically the first day off is a sleep day, as you may be working until 0700 that morning), so to get 14 days off work, 6 days leave are used.

Most of the non-24 hour units work a 6 on 3 off pattern.

[On the beach]

Some non-NATS units (yes, there are some around the world) give you 58 days leave a year. :ok:

Strangely, there is a whole world of ATC beyond NATS, where the pay is better, the conditions are, well, different and the leave is a whole lot better. You just have to look for it. :E

On the beach

[tonialmeida]

Gonzo, Whitelighter, Avoiding_Action, On-the-beach, thank you very much! :ok:

I'm actually getting an offer to work at ferronats, and they refer to "30 calendar days" (whatever "calendar days" may mean for them). So to be sure, if in a 6-4 roster, I understand that the way it shall be calculated is over my "6 on" days, right? Meaning that if I request 6 days, I shall actually have 4+6+4, right? just using 6 vacation days, I'd have 14 off

(apologies for the simplicity of the question, as you can imagine, this is my first time I'll be working as ATCO)

So 30 days, if taken "separatedly" in 4+6+4 periods, that would mean that my 30 days would give me 70 days in total?

How do I make the calculation if I wanted a longer period? (longer than 14?) If i want to use say 12 days, would it be 4+6+4+6+4? (i.e. 24?)

Thank you very much guys!

[BAND4ALL]

Why not ask Ferroprats for the answer? Good luck do you feel lucky :}

[Gonzo]

If you worked for NATS, then you are correct in your calculations.

Not sure how it works for FerroNATS,

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Why ask on here? All should be explained by your employer.

[Spitoon]

One place I worked tried to interpret calendar days as any part of the day - hence taking a night shift off would use 2 leave days. They didn't get away with it though!

[eastern wiseguy]

Why ask on here? All should be explained by your employer.


If we all did that HD....there would be very little on this board....:p

[tonialmeida]

Thank you very much all.

HD, Band, of course I will ask my (future) employer - just want to have my homework done before that, so when they tell me that the days are to be calculated this or that way, at least I know in advance how is done elsewhere. I think it's better to be prepared than to simply pop up there and ask without any further background.

You are right, it will depend on how FerroN wants to do it - hopefully it will be the same way as you are saying here, but just wanted to know which was the NATS way before speaking to FerroN, to at least be able to know if what they say is or isn't "fair"...

Guys, thanks again, this has been very useful!

[Vercingetorix]

On the beach

Some non-NATS units (yes, there are some around the world) give you 58 days leave a year.

That sounds like SERCO Middle east. With their system the law of diminishing returns sets in if you take more than one work cycle off. You only earn your full days off after a work cycle if you have worked the full preceeding cycle and, thus, on any subsequent cycle what would normally have counted as off days are actually included as leave days taken!. Very few expats are able to avail of taking a work cycle off at a time as, I'm sure you know, SERCO like you to take big chunks of leave at a time which, of course suits most of the expats.
With the NATS system you can take a work cycle at a time and maximise leave to far better advantage.

The NATS system is better. It enabled me to live in France in the winter months and commute from Geneva to EGTT.

À bientôt

[Daermon ATC]

I'm actually getting an offer to work at ferronats, and they refer to "30
calendar days" (whatever "calendar days" may mean for them). So to be sure, if
in a 6-4 roster, I understand that the way it shall be calculated is over my "6
on" days, right? Meaning that if I request 6 days, I shall actually have 4+6+4,
right? just using 6 vacation days, I'd have 14 off

(apologies for the
simplicity of the question, as you can imagine, this is my first time I'll be
working as ATCO)

So 30 days, if taken "separatedly" in 4+6+4 periods,
that would mean that my 30 days would give me 70 days in total?

Hmmmm... I assume you are not from Spain?

In Spain there are two ways to calculate vacations, "días naturales" and "días laborales". The latter is translated as "working days", the first one could be transalted as "calendar days" (and this being Ferronats I know this is the case they mean as I have had access to their job offer).

When a job is offered with an amount of calendar days as vacation, usually 30 days, it is tipically meant as two intervals of 15 consecutive days. When the vacation is for "working days" there is usually more flexibility. The example you describe is one for "working days".

In the case of FerroNats there is also another hook... that vacation agreement is usually employed on jobs where you additionally get bank holidays like 25th december or 1st january... which is not the case for an atco job.

Expect to have 2 x 15 days vacation terms and no further time off outside your regular shift. You can always ask FerroNats and prove me wrong... :rolleyes:

[ron83]

As said above,it's better to check with employer.
Because in my place,outside UK we do have calendar days leave and what does it mean is that your leave includes days off as well and not just working days(shifts)... As it is per calendar and not your shift pattern.We have 28+10 additional leave days in total. So, 38 days of vacation per year. I can only dream on about 58 days or 12 weeks off a year as said above:sad:

[Out The Gap]

Hi tonialmeida,

Like Daermon, I too have "had access" to the FerroNATS offer and have spoken with them over the phone about the vacaciones available. According to them, the 30 días naturales are 30 days of annual leave, not including your Off/Rest days. Therefore, for a 6-on/3-off cycle, you could theoretically have an annual block of 3+6+3+6+3+6+3+6+3+6+3 days off... not that that would normally be available in such a big block in practice, unless of course you apply long enough in advance..

The 30 days can be applied for any month of the year and don't, to my knowledge, need to be taken strictly in two blocks. Also, in Spain there are national holidays or días festivos (such as Christmas day and the 6th of January),which vary between 12 and 14 per year depending on the region in which you work, and which are normal days-off for non-shift workers. If you are rostered to work one of these days, you allegedly (I say allegedly, as I have only been told this verbally and haven't seen it on paper) get an extra day of annual leave, or day-in-lieu, as compensation.

Therefore, if you're unlucky enough to be rostered for all 12/14 días festivos you should theoretically get 42/44 days of annual leave, not including your normal rostered off/rest days.

Hope this helps! :)

[360BakTrak]

One place I worked tried to interpret calendar days as any part of the day - hence taking a night shift off would use 2 leave days

I know of one place that will sting you 3 days for taking 1 night shift off! Their logic being, you start on the evening of the first day, finish on the morning of the second day (therefore 2 days leave) but as you didn't work the night you don't deserve the 'sleep' day!!!! 3 days deducted!!!! :ugh::(

[tonialmeida]

Daermon, Ron, Out the Gap, thanks again!! Really useful!

I will speak to them indeed and try to get all this clarified in the agreement - so if I understood correctly, Out the Gap, what they told you is that we should enjoy the 3+6+3 system (i.e. "pay 6, get 12") AND on top of that, if we work on a public holiday, we get that extra day to our count? That would be good...

Thanks again!

[Daermon ATC]

Unlike Out of the Gap I have not spoken to any FerroNats representative so I'll assume he has the better information.

Nevertheless the specific term "dias naturales" is used precisely as a number of consecutive days regardless of whether you are working or not on these days.

In any case for your information we at Aena had our vacations previously calculated in cycles... that is you had a specific amount of workshifts free each year, including both your working and rest days on that shift. So if you had a 6+3 roster each cycle was 9 consecutive days.

After the changes Aena made to our working conditions our vacations are 3 15-day periods each year. I'd suggest you ask that question about vacations to FerroNats providing a detailed example of what is meant and demanding a written answer.

[tonialmeida]

many thanks Daermon! good to know how things work at AENA too, it is a good benchmark - though feel the 3+6+3 was better?

will try to get something in writing from them, sure!

[On the beach]

Vercingetorix,

It has been known that if you were to do shift swaps, e.g. if two people were to swap night shifts, they could end up with two weeks off, each, without any mention of leave. But that was many years ago, before elf an' safetie, and controlling was done by creative artists but I wouldn't know anything about that.

On the beach

Retired for 7 years, but Serco Dubai still think I'm on leave. :E