Skytrans hiring again.

[Hold_Short]

Just wondering why Skytrans are hiring yet again when only 4 months ago they had interview and sim rides in Sydney. They interviewed 24 candidates and the 7 in my round, not one got the gig after all having well inexcess of their minimum requirements. Was shocked when those whom had more than they required were not accepted in!

No sweat, after I heard what they were paying I tuned out. Would have been a good gig but no one should work for peanuts... sounds like the monkeys are leaving. Anyone got any information.

[morno]

Could it be that those candidates weren't suitable? Just because you have the minimums it doesn't mean you're instantly in.

morno

[Hugh Jarse]

You beat me to it, Morno :ok:

I've noticed that candidates over the past few years seem to have an increasing, unfounded sense of entitlement :ugh:

The knockout rate doesn't surprise me. It generally reflects the standard of of the candidate, and in the majority of instances with the sim ride - his/her training :)

I know of no job where merely being qualified automatically gets you the gig.

[Capt Claret]

Awe, c'mon Jarse. Next you'll want them to be First Officers and learn off the captains, rather than starting at the top, as is their right! :ouch:

[mrclumsy]

As much as I agree with everyone getting the minimum requirements by no means a done deal for getting a job ... But its hard to believe that of all seven people that did the interview not even one meets the standard ?? I was not one of the candidates hence cant say how the scenario looked.But Ones needs to ask what is the standard expected by some regionals these days...

[rmcdonal]

But Ones needs to ask what is the standard expected by some regionals these days...
Should they lower it and let anyone in? The costs associated with getting an FO online with a regional are easily in the $50-70K mark. If you are not good enough to pass the training and check then this cost is not recouped by the airline.
They are looking for attitude as much as talent in this regard as they need people who will at least fly out their bond, and who will put the same effort into the their training as the company will put into them.

[neville_nobody]

Some regional airlines in this country need to realise that they are not flying to the moon and that the glory days of having half the country with quadruple your requirements, harassing you for a job are over. Maybe some of these guys need to start assessing how they do business. I don't believe you could wipe out that many people on standards alone.

Remember that in the rest of the world flying a Dash 8 isn't really a big deal. People even fly jets with a few hundred hours.

[AnyGivenSunday99]

Surely this must be a wind up...... no? deep breath...:ooh:

"what is the standard expected by some regionals these days" - what a stupid thing to say. The simple answer is this - The best they can get their hands on. They owe it to the travelling public to make sure they are doing the best they can to make sure the pilots under their employ are safe, hard working and level headed, proficient and well drilled, to make sure they do not end up driving a multi million dollar machine into a big smoking hole in the ground.

FFS - look at what is happening in the USA, where the standards are slipping due to experiance levels dwindling. Many people are realising that the money is not going to be made being a pilot, and they are seeking alternate means of employment. It sure aint what it used to be son!

Having said that, I for one am not into this for the huge paypackets people think are up for grabs. I do it cause I love flying. I earn a modest wage, and I am happy burning kero and punching holes in the sky. I wouldn't do it for free, cause a mans gotta eat, but I just get on with the job.

I know a lot of guys from Skytrans. Most of them really enjoy their jobs, but like any company, there are also those with a gripe or two. That's nothing out of the ordinary - thats aviation. There is a lot to be said for them as a company. Good progression, rapidly expanding, good machines, you dont have to pay for your endorsement, and great people. Sure they pay a little less than Alliance, Qantaslink or REX, but they don't work anywhere near as hard (most of the time!)

Hold_Short, might I suggest that their standards were set, and you fell short of the mark. It sounds very similar to what I used to hear on the playground when I was a kid "you dont want me to play? Fine, Well your game's poo and I never wanted to play anyway..." Grow up son. In my interview group at another airline, they interviewed lots of people. Lots of guys with much more exeriance than me got the job - and I'm no genius. It all comes back to attitude in my opinion.

Rant Over.

To those going for a job at Skytrans - the best of luck to you. Do your best and impress. You'll have a ball. They'll look after you.:ok:

[Hold_Short]

AGS99... BREATH IN BREATH OUT!

You better believe what your hearing! Let me set you straight, I do not for one second think just because I have more than the MINIMUM requirments do I consider myself a shoe in for any flying position within any company, beit GA, regional or a major airline. It sure does come down to a well balanced person, with a wide range of experience, personality traits and core values for working within the company are vital. I never for once thought I was GUARANTEED the job!

Now, what I may never know is what they are looking for. We had regional airline captains, GA twin turboprob and piston drivers. They are well experienced guys who already operate under similar operations, but was surprised when each and everyone of them got the 'NO' phone call, including me. 5 of those are now in major airlines, including Virgin, Jetstar and Brindabella to say a few. So they must have had met their standards for sure!

I went for the experience and was unsuccessful, however, I believe that things happen for a reason and what they were offering was far short of what I was expecting. Bonding and minimum wages to say the least! That's just a gripe!

For those going for it good luck with it and make sure you read the fine print. Just because you fly something bigger, burning kerosene and punching holes in the sky doesn't make you any better than anyone else. Get off your high horse, enjoy everyone for being who they are and not what they fly... enjoy the journey.

[Di_Vosh]

Where to start?

I wont repeat what Morno, RMcdonal, and Jarse have said, as they're all good and relevant points.

Hold_short, you're telling us that you went from Townsville to Sydney for a Sim check and an interview for a job where you didn't know what you were going to be paid once employed.

Was the rest of your preparation for the sim and interview as thorough?

sounds like the monkeys are leaving. Anyone got any insider information?

You have no idea about the company and no idea about the pay. You're quick to pay out on the pilots with "monkeys" comments, and yet this is a company that you applied to work for?

Maybe your attitude came out in your interview????

DIVOSH!

[Hugh Jarse]

mrclumsy,

In my experience, you get the occasional 100% fail rate. Rare as it may be. Typically, it runs from 50-80%, which isn't bad considering that in other industries it's consistently as high as 95% or greater.

Anyone can spend thousands of dollars on training for a CPL. That doesn't necessarily make one a good (or even employable) pilot. Throw enough money at it and anyone can get through.

It's the employers' job to sort the wheat from the chaff. Some people (regrettably) find themselves as the chaff.

That's life.

[Hold_Short]

DIVOSH is back... you must get tired of belittling everyone. Get off your horse.

Not even Skytrans offered any information about the conditions, pay, what to expect or anything before you even applied. We all got a 1.5 page letter stating where to be, where to go and that there was a simride and you would get the information on the day. That is it. Little if not nothing else!

I went to find out my answers, then IF offered, make a decision then. Simple!

[Di_Vosh]

DIVOSH is back... you must get tired of belittling everyone. Get off your horse.

Sorry if I appeared to belittle you. It's just that I'm amazed when I read that someone has travelled from Townsville to Sydney (at whatever cost and time) for a job interview and doesn't know how much is the pay!

Not on any horse here, though I'm sitting next to a border collie and a staffy :).

Gotta say though, if you're going to post stuff on Prune, you can expect people to have an opinion about it. Not all the opinions are going to agree with yours.

Pity you can't reply without abuse.

For info, 30 seconds on the AFAP website gives me their 2011 EA. If you're not an AFAP member, about 2 minutes on the FWA website will have it.

I'm guessing if you'd read the EA it may have saved you a trip. ;)

DIVOSH!

[Marauder]

Hold Short,


I've had nearly as many knockbacks from flying jobs applications as I've had from my wife.

End result is the same,

get over it or get out :rolleyes:

[flying-spike]

Rumour has it that now that Skytrans a real HOFO they are looking for more than a high opinion of yourself. Standards are being set and being adhered to. Front up for interview or sim and don't cut the mustard....try somewhere else

[Flying Bear]

I agree with most of the above re standards and the need to meet them, etc - but I have seen (and experienced) their "very unique" management carry on firsthand.

Given that alliance, qlink and many others are recruiting strongly - if you are at that stage of your career, and back yourself with standards, and are really interested in flying airline type work, you would do well without skytrans.... I have!

[flying-spike]

I have heard that their most senior person has built quite a record of working for other, larger operators..........but not for very long...

[diddly squat]

Hold Short, just to remind you how stupid :mad: you really are, the thread you started asking for help for your Skytrans interview, within 8 days was a detailed answer of two places to find the wages exactly. Then you went to the interview not knowing you claim.

I am sure they could see straight through twots like you.

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/467396-skytrans-recruitment.html

I think mummy is calling for a spanking :=

[scumbag]

hold your short p***s

sounds like Skytrans recruitment policy is working just fine.
keeping twats like you out.
hours count for squat.

funny how they have a knack for employing nice, easy going people who incidentally can fly well!!

obviously, that's not you.

get over it :yuk:

[Aimpoint]

Ok, back to topic and away from the hold_short bashing...

I think there could be a slight issue with Skytrans recruiting. I know of a very good GA pilot who met the minimum requirements a couple of months ago. He applied, and received an email back shortly thereafter saying he didn't meet the minimum requirements...

What made things even more frustrating for this lad was Skytrans then advertised just recently with minimums that were even lower than before, and much lower than what he had.

They don't know what they missed out on - a quick learner, someone who'd get on well within the company and would stay around a long time. But he never had a chance to show that in an interview.

No, the person above wasn't me before the cynics comes out.

[Flying Bear]

They advertise for FO and Captain positions "in all bases" yet one of their current Captains seeks a base transfer several times and is refused. He is certainly a loyal type guy who is a good team player, but even he loses his faith with them.

Now he's off to another operator (with better conditions, too) who hopefully has a more consistent staff management policy. I don't reckon he was on the market except for skytrans poor ability to manage staff.

Then there was the lad who mishandled, was remediated by the T&C department and checked back to line. No probs, you'd think, but he was fired a month later "as an example".

They may have dodged a bullet with h_s, but they have long had inconsistencies in their processes - grew too big, too fast perhaps, perhaps. But my experience tells me if you are Qlink and want to jump the fence, they'll love you to bits (as long as you are a "yes" man).

But why would one do that??

[beaver_rotate]

Flying Bear, your belligerent approach to running that place I'm sure also had a lot of people head for the hills.

You paid the ultimate.

Enjoy GA.

[Flying Bear]

Didn't think it would take long for that sort of comment, b_r. But no issue, because I tried my best to develop and train, maintain a standard and work hard with integrity. My style doesn't suit all, but has helped many...

But the then CP was only interested in micro management and yes men. Got sacked whilst on leave, real courtesy and brave that was...

Anyway, like most things, find your niche and enjoy your lifestyle - as a GA pilot I've got no need to justify myself to the likes of you, as there are much nicer things to fly than clapped out -100 series Dash 8's...

I'll go back to working at developing the juniors as they work through the early stages of their careers - with pride.

Back to topic - in the current market for pilots, one can do far better than skytrans...

[beaver_rotate]

I didnt ask for a 'justification' so please don't be a mater. You obviously have some hang ups about being sacked...

The words 'protecting ones AOC from maniacs with CP Approval who approve passenger carrying RPT on a 36 seat turboprop with NO FLIGHT ATTENDANT....' come to mind... I'd sack you too... But im sure this was one of many 'wild' issues with you...

Interesting your pride in coaching juiors... I witnessed yor treatment of 'juniors' (not first hand) and your 'on your own' approach to training.... Often misconstrued with 'setting one up to fail'....

That said, I have no sympathy for the Wilds nor AS, they were warned....!

Get some help mate, see someone for your hang ups otherwise lightning might strike twice (or was it 3 times?.... Maybe 4 who knows)...

[Flying Bear]

b_r, although a rumour network, try to deal in facts...

You have no idea re any F/A incident.

I'm sure you're the sort of guy who'd look after someone other than yourself, so I'm quite comfortable you did nothing to help AS or SW.

[Flying Bear]

Careful, now...

Any criticism of skytrans isn't taken well here and the OP won't get his question answered.

[flying-spike]

Flying Bear's point is well taken.
Let me just say this:
Some might say that the differences between the public face of the organisation and the reality of what is actually going on within the organisation evoke memories of the public announcements from the management of the Fukushima nuclear plant shortly after the tsunami and Saddam Hussein's PR guy as Baghdad crumbled.

[Two_dogs]

The last (Wed 0530am- Skytrans in trouble) derogatory Skytrans thread lasted mere hours. It was however quite a mouthfull.
I for one would have liked to see where it went.

Perhaps this thread will last .. but I doubt it.
It will be :mad:

[aviation_enthus]

The Professional Pilots RUMOUR Network

*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well iinformed"

Care to elaborate? The guy is asking what they are like to work for, not whether they're about to melt down a nuclear reactor or hiding WMD's!!

[The Voice]

Folks listen to the older and wiser few and stop chucking darts already. Av enthus think you need to chill out .. Both yourself and the OP are low time posters and you both have chosen to raise/comment on a topic about a company that was subject to another thread that was in the last few days shut down. Your intentions may be honorable, but your timing suggests otherwise.

Slapper sounds like you're a fair way off from needing info that will change. All the info you would need for mins should be on their website .. As you establish yourself more, you will establish a network of buddies who will be able to give you the verbal info you need.

Next ...

[flying-spike]

The question was "Whats employment like there? Working conditions?"
I have given an observation on what I have been told of the organisation. If you want to paint a rosy picture of management you will need a lot of paint because it will just not stick. It already has a brown undercoat.

[Flying Bear]

Yep, and the OP wouldn't have needed to ask the question if he were able to search older threads...

From (some) people who have had the skytrans experience...

[Capt Claret]

You'll have to look over there to find their minimums! :E:ugh:

[tail wheel]

It was however quite a mouthfull.

Excessive mouthful of defamation with absolutely no substance!

If Donkey_Punch wants to be an ass and post defamation and libel at least he should have the courtesy to add his real name and address for service. :=

I for one would have liked to see where it went.

Sorry. That place is for Mods only!

[aviation_enthus]

As a 'low time poster' I guess I'd better write another post to get the count up so I sound more knowledgeable:hmm:

The Turkey Slapper, you'll probably find Skytrans are like most other companies, some guys have a good run, some don't. As for the 'brown stain' on management, I haven't heard any stories that confirm anything on the scale of the bad stories always coming out of Rex.

The pay is ok, the upper management of Flight Ops have good standards and the company is still expanding, creating regular upgrade opportunities. If you make the minimums, apply for a job!

[flying-spike]

Why is it when an operator gets dumped on, the offending thread gets pulled yet when CASA is the target it is open slather?
Not that both don't deserve some flack. Or is it that the operator's lawyers have Pprune on speed dial?

[Two_dogs]

Just for giggles ...
Not all operators ... page 19

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/320506-susi-air-19.html

[Flying Bear]

Av_enthus, I think the point some of us are trying to make is that the reason you don't read any criticism of skytrans here is because they seem to be, for some reason, a protected species. QF, Rex, Skippers, CASA, et al are obviously not, based on the "dumping" they frequently get - particularly on this site...

The OP of the deleted thread earlier this week was particularly blunt, as the Moderator on this thread has inferred, however from my personal skytrans experience, he is actually not far off the mark.

However, as in all things, some get a good run with an operator, others don't. My offering - if you end up working for them, do not make a mistake at work and ensure complete and unquestioning obedience to management. Do not question them, or raise concern based on your standards - particularly if it will cost them any money at all. Cairns / Brisbane, on the other hand, are fantastic places to live!

[flying-spike]

Aviation Enthus, I admire your enthusiasm and support for this operator but if I can give a little advice and it comes from experience accumulated in nearly 40 years in and around the aviation industry, not from the number of posts, it is the following:

Nearly all of us get into the industry because we love flying and the thought that somebody might pay us to do it is truly living the dream. But, as we gain experience and we are exposed to the less scrupulous operators who see our skills and love of flying as a resource to be mined and therefore depleted in order to boost their personal coffers, our view becomes less clear and that dream fades into the distance only to be replaced by the black and white reality that you are being used and, once spent will be cast aside to make room for the next dreamer, qualified with the minimums and relishing the opportunity to take their seat on the Ferris wheel.

Some will say that the dream was foolish and naive, and they may be right. But there will be operators that treat their pilots just as a resource with little regard for the human part of the brand. This is one of those operators. The worrying part of this behavior is that some take the same attitude to all the other necessary parts of the equation to keep the customer and the regulator satisfied.

Take the minimums and give the minimum and if possible to get away with it, fudge the latter. If you still want to buy your seat on this particular Ferris wheel, Caveat emptor.

[tail wheel]

Or is it that the operator's lawyers have PPRuNe on speed dial?

Conspiracy theories! No one "has PPRuNe on speed dial". :=

Unsubstantiated dishonest, untrue, malicious and libelous posts about operators and particularly libelous and defamatory posts about individuals will always be removed.

However, you may post defamation and libel on condition you also add your real name, email address and address for legal service. Saves me the job of providing your email address, IP address and matching multiple user names when the legal letters start arriving!

[Toodogs]

I barely post on PPRuNe, but when I see drivel like some of what is posted in this thread ragging on this company I am drawn to the keyboard....

I've got my take on skytrans - having worked there for almost 5 years.

They are a progressive, expansive, go-getter firm with a heap of excellent people working for them.

They appear to have a nack for picking the right people (mostly) and maintaining pretty high morale within the troops. You don't acheive this from consistently screwing people over and giving nothing in return to your employees.

Someone made a comment regarding the company being a non-familiy friendly environment. Well, from one pilot's perspective, I can't say I've come across previous management that is more considerate to their employees (in my flying career and from others' that I know).

They have had some growing pains (it continues) and rostering reshuffling, however employees can look at the flexibility demanded due to tight scheduling of limited airframes against the sheer volume of work that they are managing to pick up, see this as a positive toward employment stability and (for some more importantly) progression, they can feel satisfied with their (well appreciated) contribution.

Training standards are stabilising after a termultuous period up until about 18 months ago. The checking and training standard is good and for some time they have started to really spend extra money on it whilst improving it all the time.

Pay and conditions are reasonable with good remuneration for roster changes, DTA, working on RDOs, etc.

The roster gets changed a fair bit, but individual peoples' lines are not disturbed from the plan too frequently.

I would very much like to recommend this company to anyone with an appreciation of a crowd of people trying to make the place a real contender in regional RPT and FIFO ops, who have a good work ethic, are willing to learn and adapt.

Maybe Skytrans is 'protected' on this forum due to them actually being pretty popular amongst their employees (shock horror).

[flying-spike]

The speed dial remark was not meant as a criticism of the moderators more to point out that of the two, operators might be more prone to complain about the posts than CASA. (maybe the latter don't bother visiting the site?)

[falconx]

what happened to the skytrans in trouble thread?

[Flying Bear]

At the risk of thread drift, I can't say that I entirely agree with your last, TW.

When I copped a shellacking (defamatory, personal and untrue comments regarding my efforts with that operator) on this site from a skytrans member / supporter a few months back, including the use of my name, the Mods just left it up there for all to see - no consideration was shown to me. I don't really care anymore, I stand by my principles and genuinely try my level best in what I do, but I don't agree that libellous stuff is always removed and I have seen it regarding others, too. Maybe that's a curse of having to monitor a site like this - I don't envy you the job!

BTW, do you guys get paid to sort through the contributions to this site??

[tail wheel]

BTW, do you guys get paid to sort through the contributions to this site??

You jest of course! :}

There are three Dunnunda Mods. We probably each donate around 7 hours per week and I have done so for at least the past 12 years, maybe longer, voluntary - no pay.

It is not possible to read every post, so we rely on user reports via the "Report This Post" icon at the lower left of each post.

"Twenty three years to re write the Regulations demonstrates incompetence at CASA" is a statement of fact.

The unsubstantiated claims made in Donkey_Punch's post were malicious and defamatory both against individuals and the company. Don't care who it is, posts of that nature are going to disappear.

[Donkey_Punch]

The unsubstantiated claims made in Donkey_Punch's post were malicious and defamatory both against individuals and the company. Don't care who it is, posts of that nature are going to disappear.
I don't know how you can work that out in only a couple of hours? It was impossible for you to have investigated all the statements. I posted fact not fiction. It is also an absolute fact that Skytrans threads are locked or removed if anything negative is said. It is very obvious to a number of bloggers that Skytrans holds a soft spot in the heart of at least one moderator, one only has to look at who keeps locking off the threads.
If Donkey_Punch wants to be an ass and post defamation and libel at least he should have the courtesy to add his real name and address for service. :=
What, add real name and address? One set of suggested rules for me I see. Go talk to the engineers at one of the hangars about WH&S recently fining the company and ordering massive safety repairs of a dangerous workplace. In fact, go ask the goverment department yourself.
And go ask Skytrans why the HOFO was quietly removed in March and another one appointed, due to safety issues and non-compliances. And this is just two examples of absolute fact taken from my previous thread. Why do some people want it covered up?

"Twenty three years to re write the Regulations demonstrates incompetence at CASA" is a statement of fact.
Pathetic. He wasn't talking about the regulatory reform issue. His comment was about the often slander, lies and defamation allowed to be posted against CASA.

Nepotism is king......

[Donkey_Punch]

Flying Bear,
But the then CP was only interested in micro management and yes men.He has been removed. But not because the company see's any wrong in him. But because CASA has pushed Skytrans to the point that if they didn't sideline him they would be mercilessly ripped apart. He was a 100% yes man and they don't come more risque than this rogue. But it does show how brainless the top layer of the company is. They are digging themselves a hole the size of olympic dam and still can't see it.
And the COO, an even bigger micro manager, is the laughing stock of the North. He rings CASA almost daily, which annoys the living hell out of them, plus he rings his 'former' airline in WA every friday afternoon, like clockwork, and tells them all about Skytrans internal secrets, business strategies, plans, happenning's, issues, punishments, breaches and the list goes on and on and on. This in turn gets spilled all over the West and we all have a great laugh. (But shhh, don't tell anyone ok, this is so much fun).

Got sacked whilst on leave, real courtesy and brave that was...
That is the 'Wild' way of doing business. A gutless approach to loyalty unless you are part of the golden club. All for one and one for all. Spinless toads. They may have money but they have no balls. I have even seen them shaking like scared lambs when confronted over issues.

Beaver,
The words 'protecting ones AOC from maniacs with CP Approval who approve passenger carrying RPT on a 36 seat turboprop with NO FLIGHT ATTENDANT....' come to mind... I'd sack you too... But im sure this was one of many 'wild' issues with you...
Well the CP, who has now been sidelined, authorized an aircraft to purposely plan and fly a sector into an aerodrome not even approved and listed on their AOC. That was just a mere one of about 13 issues compiled against him. But don't tell the MD, the CEO kept most of those issues hidden from view.

Indeed, there are a number of us who know the real story behind this FNQ outfit. But that is ok Beaver, if you are the 'yes man' you appear to be, at all costs including safety and standards, then your low paying career is assured. Can't wait for the first time that Commercial send you and your 1984 Dash 8 dinosaur on some quick money spinning mission into Dangerville or overlook you for promotion due to raising an issue in the appropriate and fair faqshion it should be raised in :ok:

[Donkey_Punch]

Why is it when an operator gets dumped on, the offending thread gets pulled yet when CASA is the target it is open slather?
Not that both don't deserve some flack. Or is it that the operator's lawyers have PPRuNe on speed dial?
Careful Spike, you don't want to end up on the naughty list. It is apparently an unaccepted practise to post Wild comments about Skytrans on here. Apparently some of us have it all wrong, they are the perfect outfit to work for. Probably explains why over the past 6 months they have been 'looked at' by the ATSB, CASA and WH&S?
Probably explains why many are bailing from there and those stuck there spend their time desperately applying for jobs elsewhere.

[Flying Bear]

D_P, obviously you have had a similar experience to me. I originally thought that working there would be a good thing for my career, but it turned out to be a contrary experience. You sound really bitter, but believe me it is better to know how they really are rather than get stung by being ignorant. Having said that, I think most of their issues become a problem for senior air crew - line pilots generally are left alone (observation during my time, not sure of the state of play now...)

Glad to be away from them, even though their handling of the matter was gutless.

But then again, so was how they handled the Captain who made a handling error, was remediated and re-checked to line only to be fired a few weeks later as "an example". But the Manager Flight Ops responsible for that has supposedly been sidelined...

[Flying Bear]

Not surprised, the flight attendant issue that b_r refers to was not authorised by me, I didn't even hear about it until too late to have an influence.

Nevertheless, all said and done, I just hope none of their crew get hurt by this mob, but I see the potential - if CASA are getting stuck into them, well, not before time. I did work with some good people during my time.

[triathlon]

It spins me out, just how much SKYTRANS cops it on this site. They seem to get bashed by some more than any other operator in this country.
What's the go?

[flying-spike]

If even half the stuff you read here was true, and people have made some fairly specific and alarming allegations, then repeated them when rebuked by the mods, you could, I think, safely assume that there might be some substance to the claims.
That might be why they attract so much flack. My take, from what I have seen on this and other threads about this operator is that all may not be well in the camp.
Just a suspicion, based on a rumour....

[triathlon]

Hold Short. What are you doing? People who think they are owed something in aviation stand out and never get what they want. Just move on in life. Bitterness will only continue to hold you back in all parts of life. It's not healthy. Remember, flying planes is just a job. It's your means of making money to have a life.

[flying-spike]

Hold short? Losers that resort to using aviation language in conversation to make themselves sound like some sort of demigod, yes the ones that say "at this time" and "aaargh" before every transmission are the ones that need to move on. You ask a rhetorical question then you can spurt your premature retort when you have the bleeding obvious pointed out to you, should go and play pilot somewhere else.

You obviously know farkall of the operator and that is why you asked the question and because you know nothing you have no right to stand to their defense and even less right to denigrate those that have serious concerns about them.
And oh, by the way, pull your head in!

[Flying Bear]

True enough, triathlon. I have certainly fallen foul of what you describe in the past... being only human I suppose.

However, criticism of an operator and their methods is not always bitterness, and this mob really have a case to answer. Getting slammed on a website is hardly detrimental to them, I know that for sure, but if this forum is about passage of information, well not all of it is going to be good news. Some people hook into operators with no knowledge to substantiate it - but in this case, having personally experienced the skytrans method, I can see consistency in what some of the other contributors have raised.

skytrans may reap what it sows, but as stated many times before, hopefully crew who are genuinely trying to do a good job don't get hurt because of it...

[Cactusjack]

What's the ops department like? Partner is considering putting an application in.

http://www.moodabidri.com/soans/pineapple.jpg

[Flying Bear]

I was thinking more a sideways banana, but am not clever enough to post pictures :}

[triathlon]

Point taken flying bear. I admit i know nothing about this operator. Except for what I read. :)

[maybegunnadoo]

FB,DP,FS,CJ

What a bunch of sad sacks of Bile. No operator is perfect, no Human is perfect, no system is perfect. Blame is a two way street, accept it and move on. We've all had enormous disapointments and failures but most of us don't let it burn us up. Build a bridge and get over it.

I know a lot of people at Skytrans and on the hold agree with TD. A lot of good people trying to do the right thing. It is'nt perfect but not through lack of effort and good will on all sides. I for one am sure they will all succeed.:ok:

[flying-spike]

MaybeGunnaDo
What an apt name. It is your type that will gladly accept less than serviceable or less than legal or less than suitable in the hope of justifying your less than adequate life. The posters on this thread, myself included are not talking about perfection, we know ourselves well enough and have enough experience in this and other industries not to expect that. What we are talking about is meeting an acceptable standard.
Acceptable to the public, the regulator and others that strive for perfection but will accept nothing less than legal.
I hope you never take your attitude to a training and checking role. I wouldn't want anybody I know relying on you for a safe flight knowing your attitude is that near enough is good enough

[maybegunnadoo]

Mr Spik,

Do you carry this awful attitude into the cockpit? If so, I pity your poor F/O. I suggest you look up Beyond Blue. Have a nice day.:)

[flying-spike]

I do, and we all get along damned fine. As for depression, i am thankful that it is not a problem for me.

[Flying Bear]

Hey, Maybegunnadoo (or whatever...),

Just because you disagree with me (and quite a few others) doesn't make me a sad sack of anything - my suggestion for you would be to attack the football and not the man.

Translation - stick to the issue and tell us why we are wrong on logic and fact rather than simply engage in childish name calling. Your attitude is what gives our profession a bad name.

Sounds to me like you would fit in well at skytrans, logging ICUS under the desk of AS or MS or SW...

However, great to hear that you know some people at skytrans. Good for you. I know some people at Qantas as well, but I don't purport to be an expert on their issues to the level that I'd slag off at any contributor to the numerous threads covering their issues.

As I've stated many times earlier, I know many good people at skytrans too, but am afraid they'll get hurt (figuratively or literally) by the Company approach. My credibility is that I actually worked there for a time. You, on the other hand, cannot claim that, methinks.

Once again, if you have some opinion based on something other than personal attacks at contributors, go ahead.

Oh, by the way, depression is a fairly serious matter, I have known many affected by it for real - so I take aversion to your infantile reference to the support groups out there for it.

Glad I've never flown with you - far too arrogant, and making snap decisions based on little knowledge...

[flying-spike]

Again, well put Flying Bear. I was forced to respond by I Phone last night and did not to want to offend my guests by taking enough time to text all I wanted to say.(that is a generational thing)

I think we may have hit on why some operators are allowed to get away with what they do. In response to the ill-thought snipe regarding Beyond Blue I will say that I am not depressed but I do despair for the profession I once loved.

It is the individuals that are appearing in the industry now (and there were a few in the past) that appear as a god-send to operators who willingly revert to the lowest standard possible to retain their AOC. They are the ones who would sell their own grandmothers to pay for the opportunity to pay for an endorsement, accept less than they, by their position are due, turn a blind eye to regulatory indiscretions and back stab to their employers anyone that complains. Some operators love them. They will gladly fly overloaded and bust flight and duty times take a u/s aircraft just to gain an advantage over their so-called colleagues in the eyes of their employers.

I know this is nothing new but it appears to be happening more often now and as these individuals progress through their careers they drag the standard of the profession further and further into the mire. I won't say it is a generational thing because there were creeps of this ilk of my vintage and I have two sons that have been raised not to behave that way, but it does appear to be more prevalent.

As a society we have cultivated them, "it is not about winning", give them a medal just for competing. "It is not about them meeting a standard but how hard they tried" and other such dribble. As I said, operators love such individuals because they will not take a stand except to manoeuvre behind their colleagues and drag the standards down to the level they can meet. In doing so they make it twice as hard for others to stop the rot.

But rather than dwell on these stains on the profession of pilot and give them more time than they are worth, lets celebrate those that have drawn the line in the sand and stood fast behind it. Maybe time for a new thread along those lines. Who wants to start?

[triathlon]

Well put FS. I stand behind the line in the sand with you.

[Cravenmorehead]

Me too.
Craven

[Pinky the pilot]

flying-spike; One of the most eloquent and sensible posts I have seen on a thread which started out well but seemingly as usual for many threads of this type, quickly degerated into a slag fest!:ugh:

The third, fourth and fifth paragraphs should be noted carefully by everyone.

And include me standing behind that line.

[Cactusjack]

Maybedoapoo, from another Skytrans thread you posted in
Excellent company to work for. Management try very hard to do the right thing. Sim in Melb on Ansett Dash 8/102. Get your scan VERY much up to speed and if given power/attitude settings stick to them religiously. Interview is all the usual and very friendly. Goodluckhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
Not sure if the SIM ride is that easy going these days. They hired a proper HOFO earlier this year and you actually have to show skill and ability to pass.

[Flying Bear]

FS - right there with you, in concept - just don't want to expose the good guys to cheap shots from many contributors to this site...

You have well stated my thoughts on where the industry has gone - you sound like check and trainer who actually gives a toss about those you are responsible for / to, rather than a "box ticker" who panders to the bean counters / management (AS - you getting this?). Given it's a skytrans thread, based on my experience there, you wouldn't have lasted long.

Wonder if they've had a paradigm shift - let's see... Cactusjack - the MOFO to whom you allude, who seems interested in standards and not just the pretence of them in favour of the bottom line, has he lasted more than 6-9 months??

[Cactusjack]

Wonder if they've had a paradigm shift - let's see... Cactusjack - the MOFO to whom you allude, who seems interested in standards and not just the pretence of them in favour of the bottom line, has he lasted more than 6-9 months??
Almost 6 months to the day. And he has been looking 'elsewhere' for the past 3 months. Is only there because nothing else is available currently, from what I have been told.

[Justa Dash]

Looks as though HOFO may again be in transition, tarmac whisper around BNE GA have Wilds moving all APNG senior managers into Skytrans. Accountants and lawyers already in place and COO on the way. APNG failed under this team competing against a government airline in a third world country. Talair, Flightwest scenario again?

[diddly squat]

Looks like a nice sweet fruit actually. Why are their SkyTrans haters here? I think you should move our life on. The people in the remote communities have it much better with a Dash than a bloody Metro, The are doing a much better job for the customer than the dead McAir. :ok:

I think you may need professional help if you are so twisted over a bad experience with a single employer. Move on Sunny Jim, help is available, my condolences that you are now back in GA.

[Flying Bear]

Diddly - normally I wouldn't pick up on poor grammar or spelling, but a cursory reading of your post makes you an easy target and compromises your credibility.

You haven't even correctly written the company name, so I'll take it that you don't have any significant relationship with them. Thanks for the wind up, though.

Given that there are quite a few critics of that company here, perhaps you might acknowledge that are possibly some issues. You do make a valid point, though, which I'll concede - Skytrans provide a better service to regional Queensland than ever there was before, but I can tell you that the Skytrans service is supported like never before by the State Government. This makes it easier for Wild's mob to succeed than their predecessors. However, as far as the public is concerned, a Dash is better than a Metro and at least the service has been continuous without the company going broke. Provided that the OTP is reasonable, the product is quite okay. I especially thought that the inflight catering was top notch.

The "front of house" staff working for Skytrans is actually the best thing that they've got - mostly good people doing their level best for the clients / passengers.

If you re-read the earlier posts you'll find that the criticism of this company is leveled at internal issues - staff management philosophies, flight standards and regulatory compliance concerns. If the HOFO post is a revolving door, that ought to indicate something...

Heaven forbid the solution is to translate APNG into FNQ.

[Donkey_Punch]

Justa Dash
Looks as though HOFO may again be in transition, tarmac whisper around BNE GA have Wilds moving all APNG senior managers into Skytrans. Accountants and lawyers already in place and COO on the way. APNG failed under this team competing against a government airline in a third world country. Talair, Flightwest scenario again?
Correct. The past 20 months has seen consecutive HOFO's and safety people coming and going like a revolving door. This is never a good sign and indicates troubles below the surface. 2 years of shennanigans and CASA hammerring is taking it's toll. They call themselves HICAP but are still living the GA dream.

They are moving senior APNG people into Skytrans because the Wilds are desperate to sell Skytrans off, likely to TOLL, or float the company APNG style. Don't forget Simon loves his money above all else and he can see the window of opportunity to sell is closing fast, he is scared of having what happenned in PNG happen here. 60% of their work and revenue is Rio Tinto, with Rio now scaling back the revenue stream is shrinking. 20% of the revenue stream is the DTMR contract, and with 'Can Do Campbell' taking the slashing blade to everything, including the RPT subsidies this revenue stream is also eroding fast.
Never mind, combine that with a fleet of third world purchased 30 year old Dash 8's which even the pilots are scared of and you see a potential investment in, well, crap!

The CFO was recently shifted sideways to make room for the CFO from APNG (loyalty is not one of SW or the CEO's strong points), and this is seen as part of the float/sell off plan.
The current COO, the laughing stock of FNQ is likely to also be shifted shortly to make way for a new one which they are secretly scouting for (maybe Toomey will apply).The CEO, or the 'Book Keeper', aka out of the Untouchables, will reign until the float/sell off, which is scary indeed. Perhaps SW should have listened to his wife and not promoted the CEO up from CFO in the first place as he isn't doing a good strategic job.

Flying Bear
Heaven forbid the solution is to translate APNG into FNQ.
A great concern indeed. After the APNG crash some senior fighting took place in CASA as some wanted APNG banned from flying in to AUS and some were more concerned about potential political fallout. Either way, when you have the same menatlity running both airlines the same way it makes you wonder doesn't it? APNG's claim to fame is crashing Twin Otters and Dash 8's. That might work in PNG but it won't work in Australia. But the Wild's don't care, it's all about money and prestige, life means very little and is merely an unnecessary evil that gets in the way of making money.

Either way, SW will continue to strut around in his silk shirts like a prized rooster, a smokescreen for what is underneath while his senior footstools continue to obey his each command.
I feel for the good frontline people getting rogered by this mob.
Buyer beware.......................................

[Ret Sabala]

I think most of APNG would love to see one Kiwi manager move across to Skytrans, in fact I think it is going to happen soon.

[the distant future]

Well I heard a rumour that Skytrans actually ceased to exist a couple of years ago, and all that’s left now is a weird kind of space time shadow of days gone by.
I also heard the 6 aircraft in Brisbane aren’t operated by 70 odd staff who enjoy going to work and cracking jokes in the crew room. I also heard they don’t have husbands/wives and kids and mortgages and have worked at a thousand different jobs with a thousand different people in and out of aviation. And that the other 8 aircraft dotted around the country aren’t operated by hundreds of other similar folk, who realise that older aircraft can pose a challenge at times, though they do their utmost to provide a safe environment for their passengers and crew. I also heard that there isn’t any ongoing recruitment to replace those that decide to use the skills acquired to take them to just about every corner of the world or that some choose to stay with the company having found a nice balance in life. I also heard that never in aviation has every employee been completely satisfied and that some have stepped aside, been coerced into stepping aside or been simply pushed out of the way, and that there are many and varied reasons for each.
And finally I heard that never on Prune has anyone ever had an agenda.

[Maisk Rotum]

SW had it delivered to him on a plate. JW senior was the brains behind the whole aviation enterprise idea because JW junior had an idea that he might like to fly aeroplanes. Junior was more interested as a hobby, but senior decided there should be a return on his investment so hence MBA was born with a dubiously viable enterprise operating a Buccaneer which was later sunk. Expansion then included a Grumman Goose, a Grand Commander and an Excaliber Queenair- the first aircraft to make them money. SW was sorting through your tax files at this point but drafted in. VW was married to head of PNG ops for CH which had the rotary contract for Chevron. Sadly JW junior passed away. The rest is history. Resource contracts followed. Talair folded and the ex tax-man became king. JW senior has gifted a lot to his family. He is a noble man.

[Aimpoint]

And finally I heard that never on Prune has anyone ever had an agenda


Good post Distant Future, with the final sentence particularly relevant. It's pretty obvious who has a grudge against the company, and talking to those who have dealt with these individuals in the past, it's obvious why they are no longer with the company.

But it wouldn't be pprune without people sledging operators in one thread, then asking why no one will respond to their thread about good operators/experiences in another...

[Lester Burnham]

Maisk Rotum; SW also saved the company's bacon after others had embarked on expansions into Dash 8-200s into Indon and Do 228 fleets. If not for SW's skills the company would have fallen over in the 1990s. Talk to those involved at the time and they will tell you that SW's skills when he came back in charge saved the day. Credit where credit is due.

[Che cows with guns]

Maskim and distant future you are right of course. Good accurate telling of history and sage advice.
I hope tho' that SW can repeat the deeds of past. Remember the group of companies lost an aircraft in Madang and times have changed. The industry are viewing the group with scepticism, questions such as,"what if that had been on my charter?" I am sure have been floated around many board rooms.
I personally hope that it can be improved and move forward. The W's are a good family. The old man has Parkinsons disease and looks very frail, he is a hell of a nice generous man.
The plantation model is failing. The managers that SW employs are lacking in direction, SW knows it, just he has to find a solution.
Let's hope that a sensible outcome can be found, even I feel if it means a scaling down of operations to some degree.
CHE

[Flying Bear]

Aimpoint,

Remember that those who tell you why some individuals are no longer with the company also have their own agenda...

Everyone has their own agenda, whether it supports your argument or opposes it. I, for one, am no exception and mine is easy - there are some great people at skytrans - but the ones at the top either can't sort significant issues or won't. There are also some rats in the bunch, that should not be hidden. Believe me, I tried my best to help out - got smashed by said rats.

[Aimpoint]

Their agenda is just to do a good job at work so the company can be successful and they can continue to get paid. Time for you and your mates on the thread to leave your issues in the past. Throwing stones on pprune isn't going to change anything for you, and is unlikely to do anything but hurt the reputations of those with the company's best interests at heart.

This thread's run it's course, don't know why it hasn't been locked yet...Not really about Skytrans hiring is it?

[Flying Bear]

That depends if you are interested in finding out about a company before applying - both good and bad stuff.

Easy for you to be sanctimonious, but this particular company's best interest has often been to treat staff in a less than honorable way (examples previously given), and their intent to destroy individuals who, as you say, just want to do their best and get paid.

I have moved on and repaired my life, but that doesn't mean that I would forgive certain individuals at skytrans for their conduct. I originally suggested here that those seeking career progression could do heaps better than skytrans. However, for those that go there - you need to be an unquestioning yes man and heaven help you if you make a mistake.

Skytrans supports these individuals in management that play power games and backstab other managers and has never, in my observation, followed due process when conflict or error comes up. Sacking a pilot "as an example to others" (quote from one particular long standing manager) is just a rubbish act. That was not me, by the way, but I had the misfortune to watch it firsthand. Did I agree? Well, that should be obvious, as I got ousted.

I just don't want to see others suffer the same fate as me with this mob, and don't believe everything they (or their lackeys) tell you.

[Justa Dash]

CASA will watch the transfer of said Kiwi to Skytrans with vigilance. Skytrans has been a great business for many years. The transition from GA to Regional aviation went well once SW stepped back from it. The senior team have done a brilliant job taking it from a single dash in 2005 to the dozen or so today. This includes securing long term contracts with global miners and the Qld Govt, Amazing growth in a relatively short period of time which demonstrates the commercial acumen/experience within. Think this should be considered by the critics. If SW forces the team from APNG CEO,CCO,COO onto Skytrans he will get the result he now has with APNG. Burnt out airline guys spending big delivering way short. They have got him tied up contractually no matter how poorly APNG performs lawyers and accountants don't last in senior roles but can as demonstrated reap incredible damage. Doubt he will do that

[Cactusjack]

Any comments made about Skytrans tends to get filtered, a curious thing indeed? However, several sources have told me of a number of issues occurring of late, these are people who are in the know.
So:
COO sacked on Friday May 2013 (staff are still celebrating)
In the past 12 months there has been:
In-House legal counsel March 2013 - walked only a few weeks after a restructure, however the rumour is he was sacked
Safety manager June 2012 - ywalked, rumoured to have been sacked
HOFO x 2 - one pushed over to APNG (October 2012) and the next one resigned due to lack of support (January 2013)
Operations manager - resigned (November 2012)
CFO - shafted sideways (September 2012)
CEO - pushed sideways and sent to manage APNG (November 2012)

The company has been on a slice and dice diet since losing Rio contracts to VA and QF group, mining work has been drying up and there are a host of other issues but I won't mention them because anything negative said against this lot tends to get moderated or locked.
They recently refinanced and have been paying off some debts in instalments, so who knows what that is all about?

[my oleo is extended]

I heard a very reliable rumour this morning that they just sold a Dash to pay some bills? If this is true then it doesn't sound good.
Also heard a rumour that the spending spree on Congo purchased old Dashies has come back to bite them, especially since the Rio contract has been significantly downsized.
Another restructure is apparently imminent and the Head C & T Captain has pulled the pin and is heading to QLink. That, along with cactusjack's comments earlier on the turnover of key people would surely raise CASA eyebrows?

[Chocks Away]

Just to set some records straight (F-Bear & J...Dash)

The small band of crew who started QRA (nee Skytrans) back in late 2005/6 started with 1 Dash and purchased 8 from Easterns for 5 mill (at the time it had merged with Southerns). Mostly the "WZ series from Melb base but also TQ series from Sydney... all high time a/c. All were taken up through Moresby heavy maintenance, great jobs down inside and out, "VH'd" and then returned throughout Australia and the Pacific on various wet & dry leases... as QRA had both a Domestic and International AOCs then. The International one was lucrative! The sideshow began when Corporate Air Services bought Inland Pacific (TL); also the well known C404 Cairns operation -Skytrans; bought in a new Chief Pilot (that wasn't a scratch on the previous) and then also shunted the pioneering crew as well as dropping the International AOC. Many "show cause" events then followed and the rest is history. They have survived despite the stupidity.
So yes, they maybe providing a better regional service to remote parts of QLD and that is great stuff. Sad to say though, the company is half the size it could have been and not even half as successful, compared to if they had retained and followed the advice of experienced crew all along, right back from it's pioneering days.
Pulling back it's operations to QLD only is coming back to bite, it seems.

[Cactusjack]

Chocks away, that stupidity you mention hasn't changed a bit and continues to this day. A Driver who works there told me in his honest opinion that they should have never been handed any AOC certificate above GA status.
Also if you take a look on the CASA register you will see they have grown to 15 Dash 8's. The last few purchases came from third world countries not famous for their standard of care. Some of the machines are amongst the oldest remaining in the world.
And as for potential, I agree with chocks away, they chose to successively cut loose any good decent knowledgeable people and keep only those who prostrate themselves on one knee before the throne of Wild. Maybe some dejavu, karma, or just good old what goes around comes around?

Regardless, hang in there my pilot friends up north.

[Flying Bear]

Chocks Away - no need to set any record straight for me, I agree with you completely! I am one of those who would not prostrate myself before the "throne of Wild" that Cactus refers to - hence I got the boot. The company has great potential, but the management has a pathological style.

With multiple HOTC either resigning or being sacked over the past two and a bit years, certainly that's got to be an indicator of something - for a while there I was thinking it was just me...

Nevertheless, happiness for me is Skytrans in the rearview mirror - but if it comes unstuck, I hope the good people that I know there aren't hurt because of it.

[Cactusjack]

Flying bear, the rear view mirror concept is certainly a great mechanism. I know several guys trying their damnedest to get out and follow in the shoes of a number who have departed in the past year, they are disgusted.

There is a rumour circulating that they are struggling to pay bills, maybe that is why QQE was sold in March this year? Considering the aggressive buying splurge since 2010 through 2012, plus the cost cutting taking place at the moment, there could be some truth in what is rumoured?
I also heard the MD is desperate to inject capital and do what they did with APNG, but with their primary profit source of mining contracts drying up plus only being able to lease hangar space in Brisbane on a monthly basis, a float is becoming a challenge. Besides, why would anyone buy into an outfit like them anyway? Aeroplanes between 19 and 27 years old, a revolving door of management and declining contracts?

And the latest person to be shown the door is the GM Engineering! Oh boy, the wheels have well and truly fallen off.

CASA, are you listening?

[Cactusjack]

A source just gave me a chronology and a detailed rundown of the unbelievable stuff that has been part of the shenanigans at Skytrans over the past year. I won't post the intimate details out of respect for some excellent hard working pilots trying to eek out a living in the tropics. The departure list in just 12 months and in order goes like this;
• Safety Manager
• The former HOFO from 2011 (was Klinging on like a pest)
• CEO
• Human Factors Manager
• HOFO from 2012
• Legal Counsel
• COO
• GM Engineering
• C&T Captain has tendered his resignation and leaves soon
• This list doesn't include the CFO from 2012 pushed sideways and various other lower level departures including operations managers etc.

Wonder what the old FNQ CASA boys think of all this?

[Defenestrator]

Wonder what the old FNQ CASA boys think of all this?

Nothing at all I reckon. FNQ is a GA office. Skytrans would be with the airline office in Brisbane.

D

[Cactusjack]

CASA FNQ oversight engineering, while CASA BNE oversight flight operations and undertake the annual AOC and COA audits. It is a mixed bag.
Of interest, the CASA BNE field office manager 'visited' Skytrans CEO Tuesday, less than 72 hours later the Skytrans GM Engineering was gonski. Coincidence? Who knows, but my source says that staff are still partying in the hallways and that departure, including the COO's, has created an atmosphere of what has been described as 'joy'.
Perhaps a case of too little too late?

[bagthrower]

Heard this from the person direct just on Friday, that Steve B------ has also resigned! Dont know whether he is mentioned in the previous posts, however it seems as though people are voting with their feet at Skytrans...

[Cactusjack]

Bagthrower, don't be so sure about that. Nobody in that position leaves overnight 'to spend more time with family', that old chestnut. My very reliable sources report a much different story.
You should examine that individuals record of sudden overnight departures from other companies. And although the individual also claims to be spending more time with his 'business' it is interesting that his business was only registered on April 17, just prior to the 'sudden' decision to move on. One could speculate the individual became aware of a giant hammer that was about to be dropped on him.
On a lighter note and under the same circumstances I guess the GM Engineering wasn't quite as intuitive was he when he 'left' last week.

Also interesting how with both these individuals suddenly 'deciding to leave' the company saves around $500k per year in salaries, not to mention no longer having to pay their bonuses at the EOFY! Add that saving to the sale of the Dash 8 in March and perhaps the books look better ?

[Dash8capt]

Cactus,
All this "information" you have seems to be coming from the source. If you are this close and unhappy, why not leave?

You talk about CASA having an interest, Are you saying that Skytrans poses a threat to public safety? Do you have this little faith in your colleagues?

Many a company has been improved by a thorough clean out in the management ranks with fresh introductions. And yes maybe there is a bigger plan on the horizon.

Would the public float of Skytrans affect you personally Cactus?

It would appear to some that there was a few individuals here with small chips creating some bias.

Happy flying:ok:

[Cactusjack]

Threat to safety? I don't recall saying that? Now now, don't make assumptions. I was merely curious from a regulatory aspect what CASA would think of all the changes? Not a loaded question, no accusation.

Faith in my colleagues? If I were a pilot with Skytrans I would have complete faith in my fellow pilots :ok: But again, if I were a pilot with Skytrans I would have no faith in any other part of the organisation.

I agree, many companies do progress after a good enema, I hope for the pilots sake that the events of the past 12 months puts many of the issues to bed.

Would a float of the company affect me? Umm, let me think, nope not in the least, why would it? I won't be investing one single cent in the place, so who cares? Tell you what though, if VA and QF are flat out holding share prices at $1.00 and $2.00 respectively I can only imagine what a Skytrans float would be worth? Something tells me some giant ego's there actually believe they are a big time high end top value outfit, hahahahaha.

Regardless, stay safe and fly safe Dash8Captain and enjoy the FNQ winter :ok:

[Cactusjack]

Jeez, this saga gets worse! The rumour sweeping BNE this morning is that the safety manager and his deputy resigned on the weekend. If true that would make 3 safety managers in 2 years, and just as many HOFO's. Should this rumor be confirmed then some serious questions need to be raised, especially considering the number of other senior resignations and sackings of late.
Considering that a change of key personnel is considered to be an area of 'high risk' one can only wonder effect all this turmoil is having on overall levels of safety and compliance? I have heard that morale is decimated.
I also find it interesting that the new CEO with no prior airline experience has opted to be the AOC holder?
Lastly my source tells me that all of these 'issues' commenced the day that the previous and short lived COO started with them. They were allegedly warned what would happen. Oops, seems like things are coming back to bite them in the ass. I hope they can at least hang on to the current HOFO who is a good no nonsense bloke with a sharp head and good rudder skills, then again the Titanic still sank even though it had some good people onboard.

And they still want to sell/float this outfit?:D

[SIUYA]

Interesting comparison with the Titanic CJ...

Because, the Titanic:

1. had a double bottom and was built to remain afloat if as many of 4 of its watertight compartments were flooded - but after the collision, 5 flooded. :eek:

2. didn't have enough lifeboats to carry everyone onboard. :eek:

3. had some lifeboats that couldn't be used due to the way the ship was sinking. :eek:

4. was given 6 messages to warn it of its approach to the ice field, but all were disregarded. :eek:

And the reason why the Captain chose the more northerly course sailed and maintained high speed, was allegedly because he'd been invited to set a speed record for its maiden journey between Southampton and NY in order to increase the profit of the investors.

In other words, schedule ahead of safety. :ugh:

Sounds depressingly familiar with what's being reported on this thread, doesn't it?

[Cactusjack]

SIUYA, very astute account of history, which often repeats itself. One could say the Captain was an egotistical fool who thought much more of his ability than what it actually measured up to, he had a complete disregard for the safety of those he was entrusted with, he ignored warnings from others better positioned to understand all the facts and in the end all of those factors came back to bit him in the ass as well!
Problem is, some good people went down with the ship and rode it the bottom of its watery grave. That is the random nature of unfortunate events isn't it?

I eagerly await the next instalment, the next resignation, the next dismissal!
We know who the new GM Engineering is plus their is a competent HOFO which is a good tick in the regulatory box. However the behind the scenes safety compliance, human factors program, AOC accountability and other matters could be in for closer scrutiny one imagines?

[Justa Dash]

The new CEO brings the requisite skills required to run a business of this size, and has the ability to make the tuff calls, CASA would not fault her. The architect of the recent failings was the family book keeper marrioneting as the CEO who was banished back to PNG for his sins. mind you thats short lived with all the recent departures Pinocchio has weaseled his way into taking a floor of the corporate HO for he and the APNG cronies. BK was ably guided by SW and SEW and SEW is in there now with the wrecking ball which is why the safety and now HR Manager resigned this week. there are several more key staff rumored to be off with a move rumored tomorrow. Morale is decimated is an understatement. If SEW goes back to teaching rather than preaching neuroscience mumbo jumbo the business will prosper, HOFO well regarded, Engineering is well structured as are Ops and crews are excellent along with the ginger beers. SW will know this just not sure how to exit of Project trouble and strife.

[Beaches28]

Cactus these are starting to sound like the bitter and twisted ramblings of an ex skytrans driver (maybe pushed for his incompetence ...). If you don't work there anymore - move on and find something else to post about???

[The Voice]

the distant future .. seriously?

[Cactusjack]

The future is what we make it, good homework sir. And I do like the sound of the new thread title.
As you say good sir, "keep your chin up". Oh dear, I'm starting to get aroused again.

[Beaches28]

Yes - well put The Distant Future. Jack - clearly you are bitter because you had no credibility within Skytrans (why would they take you seriously??). All the people you are so ineloquently slagging off lasted far longer then you and probably cared for the staff far more than you (though you claim to be on the side of the pilots and engineers … tsk tsk how hypocritical).

Your posts on here have shown the drivel that you were so well known for during your time at the company (they all talked openly about you behind your back!). Your real identity is obvious mate. Keep going with these rubbish rants and people will be knocking at your door with legal notices ordering you to stop slandering your formal employer ... hilarious!

[Tidbinbilla]

I like self-moderating threads :)

Makes our job easier...........

[bagthrower]

All Staff been called into an urgent meeting today ...Somethings going on...

[falconx]

So it seems Skytrans will be closing down. Shame to see the hundreds of staff now left with out jobs but hey at least they've been paid!

Highlights
-----
Plenty of Dash 8's going cheap
Whos to take over their RPT routes?
Engineering to be merged with existing operators
Cash to focus and expand APNG (well get it back up to scratch)


From my source - engineering

[beached az]

falconx,

Hows that gunna work ?

They've just moved a bunch of deck chairs south.
Now it seems that they heading north again.
They gotz all new deck chairs up there.

Are they using double decker deck chairs or getting a bigger deck???

I'm Confused :ugh:

[Horatio Leafblower]

Source says some redundos, but not closing down... :confused:

[Going Nowhere]

Handful of F/O's and F/A's from BNE and CNS apparently.

Names to be read next week. :(

[Flying Bear]

Wow. Skytrans should be a company in growth, not selling aircraft and tossing employees onto the street...

And all fairly soon after advertising for crew??

Nevertheless, I have seen firsthand the ineptitude of their upper management but it is a shame that this has now extended (for the first time?) to affect those on the line doing the day to day work.

Good luck to the winner of this month's HOTC lottery...

[Bort Simpson]

Hi All,
there has been a lot of garbage written on here and the occasional shooting from the hip. Skytrans is not shutting down as one poster wrote.

The most important thing to consider now is that many good people will be out of a job very soon! :( Please be considerate and not put fingers to keypad too hastily without considering that real people may be affected by what you write.

It is also obvious that there are a few former employees still holding a long grudge. CacktusJack; it's been a while. Time to let it go mate. Also, the GM of engineering going is certainly not the 'wheels falling off'! You are probably right in thinking that he and the COO didn't just 'decide' to leave. Half a Mil is probably on the money.
FlyBear; I think you already know that the place has changed from when you occupied a chair. I can see from your posts that you understand that to a decent degree. The 'pathological style' you refer to, well, not so sure that it really existed but it isn't in existence now! A lot can change in two and a half years Cam.

Flight Ops is very well run these days (and getting better!) and Engineering has a massive opportunity to turn a new leaf. Great guys (& gal) working the tools. The company has recognised that the resource sector in Australia is/has contracted and there are only distant signs of that reversing. Skytrans is obviously quite exposed to that area of the economy. What are they realistically to do about this. 10 FOs and 10 FAs will hurt (them and their family and friends) but realistically the cleaver could have cut deeper. The greatest hurt will be if there are not enough voluntary redundancy takers. What's more is that apparently there will be some other people cuts in other departments. (At least flight ops crews know what's coming their way). Lets be mindful of these fellow aviation comrades.

The Distant Future, you crack me up. Well researched mate :ok: haha


Bort.

[Flying Bear]

True that, Bort.

However, some things don't seem to change.

In the past several months this company has advertised and recruited pilots (not sure about F/As) - and that is a shame given these events. Seems short-sighted to me (from, I acknowledge, my now external viewpoint).

As I have always stated, I hope those working there aren't hurt - but seems to late for that now.

[Cactusjack]

Utter disgrace. I do wonder how morale can even remotely function when people are being made redundant while the MD purchases Bentleys and restaurants?
As usual in business some good people are about to endure the consequences of some pathetic management decisions.

• 3 aircraft sold. Confirmed.
• 10 F/O's to go. Confirmed. How disgraceful.
• 10 F/A's to go. Confirmed. How disgraceful.
• A couple of overpaid underachieving managers punted. Confirmed.
• 6 more staff to go (various). Confirmed.
• SW's Bentley to stay. Confirmed.

Spin doctors are claiming 'economic environment' and 'some consolidation' as the cause of these necessary changes?:=

[MachTwelve]

For the Bently it seems simple. Those prepared to risk their own personal money deserve the rewards where they are available. Just as employees should always look after their own interests first, so should owners. What would you prefer, that the jobs of all the other employees are kept at risk by not trying to make Skytrans profitable for the future?

[404 Titan]

Those prepared to risk their own personal money deserve the rewards where they are available.
You're delusional if you think any businessman would risk their own personal wealth on any business, particularly if "LTD or PTY LTD" is at the end of the company name.



Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[The Green Goblin]

So how does that work with the maroomba deal? Do the maroomba crew work for skytrans?

Interesting!

[Bernoulli11]

Maroomba crew are employed by a different company as far as I am aware.

[Two_dogs]

APNG are conducting Dash 8 pilot interviews in Cairns this week. Will they hire from the general pool or will Skytrans pilots get first option?

Pity about the timing of the two events.

[ResumeOwnNav]

I believe APNG are only offering full time POM or 20 days on 9 off for FOs.

Surely a step north to the sister company, or at least an interview with APNG, could be arranged through respective company offices for those interested.

Are APNG still running their interviews out of Skytrans' CNS office?

[Ret Sabala]

I believe Apng offer tours 3 weeks on 3weeks off to suitably qualified Dash 8 plots with PNG experience

[MachTwelve]

I believe APNG are keen to offer roles for those unfortunate enough to be let go by Skytrans, but as I understand at present there is no information as to who is accepting voluntary redundancy nor who (if anyone) will need otherwise to be made redundant.

Rosters are either based in Port Moresby, or 20 days on/ 9 days off. 3 week on/ 3 week off tours are only available for Captains.

[Cactusjack]

Maroomba pilots aren't employed by Skytrans. Lucky for them actually, apparently the morale is much better in the west.

Meanwhile back at the Wild ranch the current Skytrans safety manager has resigned (yep, yet another one) and finishes in a few weeks time. Also staff are celebrating the "departure" of the two HR chicks come this Tuesday, many applauses all around. It seems that the new CEO is certainly not afraid to put her stamp on the place in the past 6 months, clean house and tidy the backyard. Either two things are happening up North, the CEO is an idiot and getting rid of all the good people, or the CEO is astute and getting rid of all the chaff, lots of it. I suspect the latter. It is also interesting how the MD has got the wife coming in to the office each week to help out? Rumour is that the time finally came for a business head who isn't scared to talk to other human beings to start running the place. Perhaps he can sit in on one of her training courses?
And finally the HOTAC role is still up in the air and a little uncertain, nobody is sure whether the current qualified person is staying or going. If he goes it will be Skytrans loss. The HOFO is still making positive changes, difficult at a time when pilots are being made redundant, but a great feat in itself.

I just hope all the documents are being updated accurately to capture all these changes, would hate to see CASA do an audit and find inconsistencies, inaccuracies or errors.

[Cactusjack]

The MD's wife is now the HR Manager!
Absolute gold, still got tears falling down my face. What a Mickey Mouse outfit.

[Cactusjack]

Will be great to see the modern ATR's on the Cairns/Weipa route. Will this be detrimental to Skytrans though? As under the Bligh government a lot of their RPT routes were subsidised, gaurenteeing revenue, but not anymore under 'can do Campbell';

Virgin Australia Welcomes Deregulation Between Cairns And Weipa Announcing New Daily Service | Global Travel Media (http://www.eglobaltravelmedia.com.au/airline/virgin-australia-welcomes-deregulation-between-cairns-and-weipa-announcing-new-daily-service.html)

And will the continued drop off in the mining sectors cause further yield decline to Skytrans? Most of their profits came from a once bulging mining industry and charter operations, but now they have sold 3 aircraft and made pilots and cabin staff redundant. Mining faltering link below;

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian (http://m.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/miners-slash-jobs-production-in-a-black-day-for-coal/story-e6frg9df-1226669739851)

And from PNG, a further mining sector slowdown article. Would this downturn affect APNG which closely follows in footstep with Skytrans? Below link;

No Cookies | Herald Sun (http://m.heraldsun.com.au/news/newcrest-slashes-mine-jobs-in-png/story-e6frf7jo-1226669020663)

My sources tell me that there will be no more pilot redundancies for now, and I genuinely hope that remains the case. I have seen a few other airlines over the years who relied predominately on charters and subsidies routes and whenever those routes are deregulated and the charter work dries so do the profits and the companies value. I recall what happened to Strategic Airlines after they lost their pot of gold Goverenment contract. SkyAirWorld, Macair, the list continues. And when the owners start having to put their own money into the company and can't pay the bills you know there is trouble.
I hope for the sake of the pilots that this doesn't happen at Skytrans. Keep your heads up boys and girls.

[BackdoorBandit]

Will be great to see the modern ATR's on the Cairns/Weipa route. Will this be detrimental to Skytrans though? As under the Bligh government a lot of their RPT routes were subsidised, gaurenteeing revenue, but not anymore under 'can do Campbell';

Skytrans do not operate RPT on Cairns - Weipa, QLink does. So no effect I would say. Don't get me started on the limitations of the ATR compared to the Q400.

[Cactusjack]

Heard from a reliable source inside Wild Empire this morning that there has been several serious ramp incidents including an aircraft fuel cap being left off and not noticed until aircraft was taxiing, wheel chocks being run over, and a rampie almost run over. I also heard that the resignations continue, morale is at an all time low and that several departments continue to spiral to new lows.

[VH-FTS]

Cactus - have you thought about seeing a shrink to let go of your Skytrans obsession? Plus it might cure you constantly talking to yourself on this forum.

[Ret Sabala]

I agree FTS; Cactusjack you a weird one indeed. I can reliably inform you that the mining sector in PNG is thrivin,g A/PNG are flat out making money. They have a robust RPT network that is expanding. The Wild's are honest people, they just don't suffer fools.

[onedottoolow]

Cactusj
You've surely out done your welcome at Skytrans after being let go a year or two ago and as rumour has it your current employer will be happy to see the tail end of you, so happy times ahead for you.

[Cactusjack]

Interesting how the HOFO who left in December/January is now an FOI with CASA. It could make for some future fun and games I imagine? In general the pilots themselves don't have much to worry about, a pretty good bunch. It's the puppet masters at the helm of the place that should be jumping at shadows.
Anyway, as has been pointed out, a change is as good as a holiday, so I am sure with a bank marketing manager with no prior airline experience being CEO it will be all blue skies ahead!

[Mach E Avelli]

Until CASA insist that the HOFO/Chief Pilot of an AOC is singularly empowered to make all operational decisions - right to the point of grounding an operation if necessary - and is not permitted any conflict of interest through a bonus system, shareholding, partnership or similar, this sh!t will continue. A HOFO/Chief Pilot should be on a straight salary in keeping with the position, and nothing more. In the same way that CASA insists that this person must be a full-time employee of the AOC-holder, CASA should make sure that this is a salaried position and nothing more. And also require the CEO/CFO to provide proof that the HOFO has an adequate budget and financial control to cover crewing, training etc. so that short cuts are not taken.

Now, I am NOT saying that the HOFO had any financial interest in Skytrans that may have influenced him to make some of the decisions that he did, but it does appear that there was pressure coming from somewhere.

If he was in fear of his job, there is something wrong with a system that allegedly requires certain post-holders to be in place for the AOC to be valid. The removal of any one post-holder without having a replacement approved prior should mean that the AOC is automatically suspended.
CASA expects these guys to do their enforcement for them, but is often loathe to provide the backing needed.

[Cactusjack]

Well well well, an interesting post by Helmet and an even more interesting link. Tends to give weight to what I have been told and have mentioned here, but of course that has ruffled way to many feathers.

Dejapoo, I thought the comments on this thread are about Skytrans, not flying bear? In any case from what the CASA investigation reveals and from what my very well positioned source tells me, this has all occurred since flying bear left, so you should really stop trying to deflect from the facts by dragging in flying bear. (And no, I am not flying bear)
The CASA investigation shows that there is trouble in paradise with this mob. I really don't know how the pilots are putting up with this, then again I have been told that most have no idea what's been going on behind the scenes. I believe the MD didn't know everything either, hence some internal organisation realignment around Xmas 2012.

Ret sabala, now that is funny :D How much did you get paid to drop that load of crud publicly? The only people between PNG and Cairns who say things like that are the family themselves. This is all just way to funny.

[Flying Bear]

Dejapoo, I'm still about "mate"... just watching with interest and maintaining my dignity by getting on with things, but that document brings back some memories (as well as filling me in on the circus antics after I got shown the door).

Despite thinking that you know everything, the CASA observations got it pretty much correct - but they obviously didn't get hold of some other stuff that would make your eyes pop... My "fitness to perform" is not in question by any relevant authority.

Suffice to say, anyone who wasn't a "yes" man or who tried to do things right got given the boot - the posted document today relieves me somewhat, as it serves as a vindication of sorts that I did not have to put forward.

The trend shown therein is clear with where the problems lay in those times, seems little has changed (even under my successors) - your attitude reeks of someone who was not up to spec professionally, was held to account for that, however rather than taking the lessons on board would rather hit out at the checkie... Good work "mate" - hope you grow up one day.

[Beaches28]

Am I the only one noticing how old all this information is ... how is any of this interesting or shocking? Call me naive, but surely if CASA were going to take any action they would have done so by now?

Was the purpose of posting the information just to make all the existing employees feel even more uncomfortable and insecure - if so, then I think you can consider you mission accomplished :ugh:

[tail wheel]

The following links are just a small sample of the crisis that exists within this company. There are copious amounts of evidence relating to serious systemic safety issues, managerial and cultural issues that are very prominent. From a risk based view I do not believe that the inherent risks can get much worse than what this company offers.

Whilst that paragraph tends to indicate the present tense, in fact the referenced and linked CASA documents are all dated 2010 and 2011 and should be read as historical record, rather than current fact.

CASA's publication of the extensive internal administrative documentation without individual personal details redacted, is a reflection on the appalling culture within CASA.

That the airline continued to hold an AOC and operate RPT services confirms that a systemic safety problem apparently did not exist, otherwise CASA would have been compelled by it's legislation to take immediate action and suspend the operator's AOC.

I have no idea what useful purpose publication of the documents served? :confused:

[Mach E Avelli]

Well it sure did a smear job on the former HOFO. Maybe given him grounds for a defamation case? Unless someone is proven guilty in a court of law, I don't see how names associated with this stuff should be released in the public domain.

By all means publish the findings, and where necessary pin actions to titles. Aviation in Oz is a small enough industry for anyone connected to work out for themselves who the culprits were.

What public interest is served in publishing names? Nasty.

[tail wheel]

Well it sure did a smear job on the former HOFO.

Yes it did. But it is about what we have come to expect from a morally corrupt, inept, incompetent and unaccountable CASA and a worthless, inept,bumbling Minister.

Indeed, there appears grounds for a libel action however few private individuals have deep enough pockets to take on CASA.

It is almost September again and this year is rather special - the 25th Anniversary of CASA's incompetent regulatory review project.

How much now McCormick - my guess it has now passed the $300 million mark?

I'm disgusted CASA published those documents, so much so I intend to close this thread.