Direct Entry Pilots for KQ

[Ftrcap]

Anyone out there who is a direct entry applicant waiting to start the process or has already started the interviewing process?

[mnask]

yeah, am waiting for the interview process to begin hopefully next month

[550]

Yea have been called for the aptitude on May 23 does anyone have any information on what books need to be studied to make llife easier? :confused:

[mnask]

hi,

just go through your form 3 and 4 stuff
Maths
• Sequences of numbers and patterns
• Closing and opening speeds (Relative Velocity)
• Fractions (largest to smallest and vice versa)
• Algebraic questions
• Quadratic questions
Physics
• Pulleys
• Balancing of weights ( see-saw)
• Mechanical reasoning (Google)
• Wheels and cogs (big wheels and small wheels, which turns faster and in which direction)
• Springs
• Electricity (voltage formula and other few stuff on electricity.)

Chemistry
• Chemical bonding
• Periodic table
• covalesence

See you there, what time have you been summoned?

[chileno 777]

woowww...Algebraic and quadratic questions, chemistry, mechanical reasoning (among others)!! Common…Are you guys applying to a PhD. in Harvard, Cambridge or MIT? :eek:

Really feel sorry for the applicants that have to study all that in order to apply to a pilot job. By the other hand, the people who have made it… you have my sincere and uttered admiration for passing the selection process!!:D Nevertheless, kindly note that 99% of the subjects studied will not be of much use in your career as a commercial pilot.

Sincerely believe that an IFR exam, a SIM evaluation (not need to be in a FFS, a simple computer with the Flight Simulator software will work) and a shrink test and interview will better select a candidate to a pilot job. :ok:

[NightWolf]

Is this to get a type rating on the space shuttle or the star-ship enterprise? :}

[kibz2005]

i got the email as well. but i has been a LONG time since high school. do we really need to be up to date on all that stuff? considering we are all already certified AVGAS jockeys it hardly seems relevant.

just wondering where you got all your info on what is in the apptitude test?

[EchoKilo]

Unfortunately, everyone who made it went through the same process. Its not as bad as you think but true, its all high school stuff and mostly non aviation related questions. The last section is all about interpreting the AH but if you've flown, its easy. All the best to everyone. Any questions/help, dont hesitate to inbox me.

[kibz2005]

sigh, oh well...like I said, we are all already certified. If we don't get in, it's back to the wilson hustle! :ok:

[550]

Thanks mnask
have been summoned on the 23 may 2012, dont have any form 3 or 4 books do u have any web sites or books in paticular i could get my hands on.:confused:
such a pain!!

[550]

sorry did not read the question summoned at 7 45 am:zzz:

[Ndege-5Y]

Any one who got his CPL MEIR from Wilson schools who has been shortlisted? Are the guys who trained in wilson being considered?

For Chem and Physic, approach a high school teachers. Books are readily available as second hard in street of Nairobi

[kibz2005]

hey ndege-5y, yeah i do know a fair few hknw trained people who were shortlisted. they had all applied fairly early last year so they have done their fair share of waiting. when did you apply?

[Ndege-5Y]

Hi all. I am yet to finish my all requirement for shortlist. But below information will be of help if you have been shortlisted. Its gathered from those who gone thro the whole process. But probably thy have changed this time but am not sure.

STAGE 1: APTITUDE.
What is this ‘aptitude’?


Aptitude refers to an individual’s ability to learn or perform certain skills.
Aptitude tests refer to standardized tests designed to measure an individual’s ability to develop certain skills. In this case piloting skills.
So for this stage make sure you up to scratch with:
Basic physics – pulleys,
Books to refer to:


The world of Physics by John Avison
Ordinary level Physics by AF Abbott

Ex.
Basic form 2 maths e.g. algebra,
Ex.
Basic chemistry: balance the equation. (Expect one question from this area).
Interpreting basic aircraft instruments in different attitudes. Ex.
http://rushandege.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/images1.jpg (http://rushandege.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/images1.jpg)
What is the Aircraft doing?


STAGE 2: PSYCHOMETRIC.
Psychometric test is any standardized procedure for measuring sensitivity or memory or intelligence or aptitude or personality etc
Check Morrisby Profile on the web at Morrisby - Career and Educational Guidance from the Profiling Experts (http://www.morrisby.com), they have practice questions and useful material for this stage.


STAGE 3: MEDICAL.
This is a normal class one medical examination done at the KQ medical centre. Make sure you don’t consume any alcohol at least 24hrs before due to a blood test and urine test.
On the other hand eat some nice food as a stool sample is required.



STAGE 4: PSYCHOMOTOR.
The psychomotor domain includes physical movement, coordination, and use of the motor-skill areas. Development of these skills requires practice and is measured in terms of speed, precision, distance, procedures, or techniques in execution.
The aptitude psychomotor test consists of several parts, most of which are timed individually, which is why you need to be prepared mentally to be able to jump right in.
It will test you on your reaction, memory, ability to think in 3D space, coordination etc.
There is useful info on PILAPT® Pilot Assessment (http://www.pilapt.com) and IPAS (http://www.nitex.nl/projects/ipas2/application.php?lf=direct) (Also for stage 1 & 2).


STAGE 5: FLIGHT.
This a flight test done on a twin engine aircraft.
On board will be an instructor on the right seat and a KQ examiner at the back monitoring the flight.
Basically it’s the Kenyan I.R test (Nairobi) either direct from Wilson to GG or TH. Expect an engine failure.
Be precise on how you fly the ILS.
Do barrel rolls on your way back to Wilson. You will definitely get the examiner’s attention. – Do Not Attempt!

STAGE 6: POSITIVE REFERENCING.
This is an oral interview.
On the panel sits two KQ captains and a HR representative.
This is a one on one interview with the panel.
This stage requires you to have knowledge on your com. Subjects. They is no guideline to what shall be asked as it depends on the panel.
Know your stuff well.
Presentation is key. Dress code is formal.
On this day you will also be required to carry some documents such as your cv. Check out our pilot CV page.
Finally,
This information was gathered from people who have gone through this process and doesn’t necessarily represent what will happen on the actual day.
This gouge aims to remove the fear of the un known and instil confidence in pilots as they attend the assessment process.


for more information check Kenya Airways - The Pride of Africa (http://career.kenya-airways.com/)
Good luck to those attending the assessment and update us on the interview process so as to assist others in the future.

[odericko2000]

The irony of it all is that the expats recruited or rather they want to recruit do not go through this type of nonsensical hustling called "recruitment".
Recruitment of pilots already flying should be tweaked for a better hiring process, otherwise good pilots keep falling off the so called interviewing process and the airline keeps knocking "there are no suitable pilots to pick from locally, we need to hire experienced expats" line, ironically when it comes to our foreign brothers and sisters, Voila, the company magically sees the light and doesn't put them through the same BS.
We love you KQ but things got to change with this regards, stop denying able locals jobs, they are the driving force of the kenyan economy

[kotakota]

Actually , I think you might find that DEC are also expected to do this ' nonsense ' as you call it , which should keep most expats of any age or experience out . I hear that the interview is also conducted by 3 people including KQ Captains , so that should do the trick of keeping any interlopers out ? Job done ----again.
DEC may be needed , but never wanted .

[ndugu747]

550

hey, please kindly if you don't mind, post the questions that you will go through on the 23rd May, 2012 for the KQ aptitude exam.
It will help guys get ready for the next scheduled interview..

Thank you!:ok:

[jetpet]

Well, as of last year, KQ began using the 737 simulator at pride centre to conduct the flight test stage of the interview process. Has left many with very interesting views about that....and yes you will also go through single engine on the sim...:{

[kibz2005]

for everybody taking the aptitude test tomorrow, all the best! :ok:

[kibz2005]

what a day?!

2 words people: TIME MANAGEMENT! this is absolutely key to passing those tests. just for clarity, it is actually 6 papers that you will be sitting for with a 10minute break inbetween. yes SIX separate test. that was a rather unpleasant surprise today, but for the most part the summary of the topics above was spot on. pulleys was another favourite topic.

words of wisdom:
- in the maths papers, time is absolutely critical. no calculators allowed and plenty of questions on algebra and also time, distance and speed (a whole section!)

- if you feel like you are spending too much time on one question, skip the question. if you guess and answer and get it wrong, they subtract a mark from your total for each wrong answer. this isnt true for all the papers though. only for maths and mechanical reasoning.

- they will not give you rough paper for the paper on general science. be prepared to do plenty of mental math.

otherwise, to everybody attempting tomorrow..all the best!

[kotakota]

Anybody got any info on medical at kLM in Amsterdam ? Pls PM me if you have .

[ctrviolation]

Hello.....
Anybody with news regarding the next interviews...?

[Gibron]

I heard that they have suspended the recruitment of expatriates. Can anyone shed some light on this?

[kibz2005]

i know this might be a little bit late, but this should shed some light on the situation...

KQ faces pilots (http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate+News/KQ+faces+pilots++strike+over+hiring+of+expatriates+/-/539550/1445854/-/item/1/-/cbtup7z/-/index.html)

it's sad that things are threatening to go that far though :-/

[kotakota]

Good article , one wonders where it will all end .
All I know is that if BALPA behaved /demanded like this then BA would be nowhere today . BA pilots work hard , do 900 hours a year ( long haul anyway ) and get rewarded appropriately , both financially and lifestyle -wise , with excellent rostering and leave systems that they have huge personal input to and influence over .
There are many non Brit pilots ( must have EU passport ) .
KQ pay looks to be very good for Captains , but I have to doubt the articles assertion that KQ will have to look to some of the airlines mentioned . Not many will leave other well paid jobs especially ones with less volatility involved.
The scenario here is similar to Malaysian 20 years ago , plans to expand by nearly doubling the fleet , lack of enough locals with the experience required , so expats brought in on 3 year contracts , renewable if required , most expats gone after 6 years max , many well before that . Job done , locals filling virtually all flying positions . Why this example cannot be followed by KQ and KALPA is beyond me . EVERY expat will be on a work permit of 2 or 3 years only , and this can be controlled at all times . Nobody will be permanent , so what is the beef ?
What does the Government feel about all this ? Do they want KQ to succeed ?
Are unions all-powerful ?
I know that this is at least the 3rd time that the strike has been threatened in the last 6 years . Will Naikuni cave again ? Does he have any choice ?
Final question , how can any long haul operation work on a maximum of 12 hour duty time , or are there BIG ' overtime ' payments in the Collective Bargaining which are really at the root of all this ?

[The Right Brother]

Hello All,

just wondering if there is any update/ more info on the Direct entry process?

I am hoping to apply in the near future and especially interested in the timeline from first interview to Orals , SIM training etc?

[gear up job]

Hi All,

I'm currently going through Kenya Airways direct entry pilot recruitment process. I have created this forum STRICTLY for the direct entry program "wannabe's" for us to share our experiences or ask any burning questions we may have regarding the program. There is another forum SPECIFICALLY for Kenya Airways AB Initio program. So please direct your response or question to the right forum.

So let's get the ball rolling......I recently applied the program via their website portal and about a week ago I received an email containing below message some other usual information about the program.

"Please be advised that we will be processing the next direct entry pilot shortlist in January 2014. We will however maintain your application in our recruitment database for processing in January 2014. We thank you for the interest shown in working for Kenya Airways, the Pride of Africa. Thank you”.

The above message and email was sent from “[email protected]” and not “[email protected]

Is this normal for Kenya airways to send work correspondence without using their platform? Did anyone else receive the “yahoo” email?

I hope the pilots who have gone through direct entry program will be able to share with us their insights, the do’s & don’t .

[darwin wairegi]

hey,I cleared form four last year and managed to get grade A in maths and physics,a B+ in English and an overall mean grade A-. I am a pilot "wonnabe" have I qualified as an applicant?and if so,how can I apply for the 2014/2015 intake?

[Optimum Flap]

:ok:

There is definitely a need for some reliable info on the Direct Entry Recruitment process.

Currently abroad so looking to finalise my application in Dec/Jan. Basically, as soon as I can get back, convert my licence, get the Gas turbines and Grade A performance.

GUJ - would definitely be suspicious of the yahoo email. Might be an insider looking to score some Christmas cash.
Just out of interest, have you already done the conversion to Kenyan CPL/IR. If yes, please let me know how long it took you and the co$t involved.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/440468-kq-direct-entry-pilot.html

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/209151-kq-advert-737-fos.html

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/482621-direct-entry-pilots-kq.html

[pilotkq777]

Hey GUJ I am in the same boat as you. I'm in the USA flying corporate on a citation looking to fly with KQ in the future I did apply for the direct entry was accepted but was never short listed because I had not converted my FAA to KCAA. Make sure that you convert your license then update your profile otherwise u will not be short listed.

[gear up job]

Hi PB,

Thanks and you have raised very good questions. Hope someone will be able to shade some light.

Cheers.

[gear up job]

Hi Darwin.

From your response i think you are after Kenya Airways AB initio program. See below link from PPRuNe and also from KQ on their requirements.

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/374048-kenya-airways-ab-initio-pilot-recruitment.html

http://irecruitment.kenya-airways.com000/OA_HTML/OA.jsp?akRegionCode=IRC_VIS_VAC_DISPLAY_PAGE&akRegionApplicationId=800&OASF=IRC_VIS_VAC_DISPLAY&OAHP=IRC_EXT_SITE_VISITOR_APPL&transactionid=1294700467&retainAM=N&addBreadCrumb=RP&p_svid=22830&p_spid=1044690&oapc=5&oas=q5JCLuytsHCNAIDiwsuKaA..

The link from PPRuNe has over 2,390 comments and questions. You may find it very useful.

This forum is for candidates who are about to or already possess CPL/IR/MEC/ATPL….etc and intend to apply for the direct entry program. See below link for direct entry program requirements

http://irecruitment.kenya-airways.com000/OA_HTML/OA.jsp?akRegionCode=IRC_VIS_VAC_DISPLAY_PAGE&akRegionApplicationId=800&OASF=IRC_VIS_VAC_DISPLAY&OAHP=IRC_EXT_SITE_VISITOR_APPL&transactionid=1801263386&retainAM=N&addBreadCrumb=RP&p_svid=9254&p_spid=415254&oapc=12&oas=OYsBStDDOu19S7RWrLkbfw..

All the best lad!

[gear up job]

Thanks mate.

No I haven’t converted my license yet. I intend to do that in December when I travel back to Kenya.

However I am thinking of converting my license to South Africa's CAA first then to Kenyan because I hear the Kenyan one takes a while. Also another reason for me to converting to South Africa's CAA first is because I have C208 endorsement and I am hoping to get some employment/build more hrs either in Botswana, Namibia or Zimbabwe while am waiting for my Kenyan license.

Am still doing research on all that. I will let you know and all the best mate in your studies.

[gear up job]

Hi SRT,

Thanks for the threads. Good info.

Hi 7's

Thanks lad. That's a massive tip.Will get on top of it ASAP.
All the best and happy flying mate.

[mkenya]

Hey Gear up job, if you wan't to do your conversion fast your best bet would be converting to either Uganda or Tz license then to kenya... Tz is usually a bit easier and is what a lot of people nowadays choose to go through.

[Optimum Flap]

Hello Mkenya, am also in a similar position to GUJ and dreading the Kenyan conversion. Please expound on the Tanzanian - Kenya process.

Do you know any good training organisation in TZ that could assist in the conversion and how fast are we talking, cost involved?

Many Thanks.

[mkenya]

For the conversion to Kenyan license from Tz, you have to sit an airlaw exams, all your ratings on your Tz/Ug license will be transferred to your kenyan license.

Converting to Tz license involves sitting for a composite/conversion paper, and writing a TTR for the aircraft you need to be endorsed on your license, and a flight check. All should take between two weeks and a month, or even less depending on luck and your input.

Hope that helps for now.

[typhoon01uk]

Hi to all. I'm a rookie at this forum thing so bear with me.

Having searched high and low for info on the conversion process in our lovely country, I couldn't get any definitive advice so I bit the bullet and came over to do it and find out for myself. So for all those in a similar position, here's the process:

1. You must go to KCAA headquarters first. They'll look through your logbook and advise how many hours you have to do. Don't waste time visiting the schools coz they'll just send you back. You can also take the opportunity to book your exams (cash only) and save yourself a return trip.

2. Your licence must be current which they class as 6 hours PIC in the last 6 months ( medical must be current as well although they'll still make you get a Kenyan initial).

3. Most schools use the Seneca as their training twin. If you have hours on type, things are a lot easier for you. If like me, you qualified on something else, you must get a Student Pilot Licence (medical needed first), which takes 4 days to issue. You must then pass what they call a Technical Type Rating written exam specific to the Seneca after which you need 5 hours on type minimum and pass a check ride (general handling, stalls,etc) to get the type endorsed on your licence. If you're after a Multi IR, you need to do an initial IR test which can be combined with the Multi check ride & save a few bob.

4. Pass a Composite CPL written exam (100 questions on all subjects). If you trained in the UK like me, you'll recognize the style of questions as they are based on the JAA/EASA question bank. It's an expensive paper (ksh 16000) & it's my understanding most people pass on the 4th or 5th attempt so prepare well. Get on one of the online question banks and pay for a couple of months & just drill the questions. The exam is sat once a month on the 3rd Thursday so plan for that. You can get a special sitting but add 50% to the price of the exam for that. Gas Turbines is on the 2nd Friday & Perf A on the last Friday.

Once you get through all that, back to KCAA, put all your paperwork in and wait for the licence. Try to come at the beginning of the month and if you have a clear plan, you should get it done in a month. The horror stories are a little outdated if you ask me but you really have to apply yourself or it'll take forever. The written exams are computerised and the results are instant.

Hope this helps. If anyone needs any more info, pm me & I'll be happy to help where I can. Happy flying....

PS: KQ recruitment site does say the next shortlist is in January so hurry...

[gear up job]

Thanks Mkenya. I think i will have to consider that option.

Many thanks typhoon01uk. That's a very meaningful insight and detailed explanations. Cheers for that. Why does KCAA likes to complicate things serious?

If my license was issued by ICAO council member state and it's well recognized and accepted by other ICAO member states which Kenya is one of them, why do i have to do all that plus Gas Turbines & Perf A ! I already have an ATPL for that. Most countries (Australia recently) are changing their Aviation regulations to harmonise themselves with ICAO standards. Where if you were issued a license by a member state, converting it will be like to like. I believe this process is called SIMPLIFICATION! I fear KCAA is going the opposite direction called COMPLICATION!

Now i understand the frustration of Kenyan pilots working overseas wanting to return home.

Do expatriate captains working for various Aviation companies in Kenya have to do all that? Very eager to know.

[typhoon01uk]

Couldn't agree with you guys more. The process could be much, much simpler. But, in their defense, most other countries including the US, will put you through some sort of conversion process so they're definitely not alone.

Just one more thing to add to my previous post. If you're coming over to convert, please please make sure your logbook is stamped & verified (all your hours). If not, you have to go through the process of finding lawyers & swearing affidavits....

[captain oates]

Gear up job, I can definitely confirm expats have to go through the same long painful conversion process as Kenyan citizens.
The average number of conversion exam sittings before getting a pass, seems to be about 4! I've heard of some passing 1st time, others failing several times over several months, giving up and then heading off to Tanzania to try that route.
As mentioned previously, Tanzania has a relatively easier law based conversion exam, (or used to), and KCAA will recognize all current Tanzania ratings, including the medical. You will need to sit a flight test in Tanzania. Usually the guys around Dar terminal 1 will be in the know re law exam questions.
You will still also need to sit a simplified Kenyan conversion exam for the Tanzanian Licence, but it's law based only, so 2 to 300 hundred questions to learn.
Not sure who in Dar can help with the flight test. Especially if you need a twin IR.

[gear up job]

Thanks typhoon01uk for the added info.

Captain oates thanks mate. I think Tz route it will be. Tell you what, i wouldn't be surprised if Tz starts getting ahead of Kenya in Aviation or maybe they have.

Out of curiosity, did you go via the Tz route captain oates?

[gear up job]

Pilot Breezy asked this before and i know someone somewhere has an answer so please if you know the answer share it with us.

" how may Direct Entry does KQ take per year? Do they put them on the E-jets like the cadets? What’s the bonding like @ KQ?"

My understanding is that if they take you, TR,Sim,MCC,Base,Line and other training takes 6 months or so and seniority is based on how many yrs you have worked with them.

I stand to be corrected. Thanks.

[typhoon01uk]

Since coming over to do the conversion, I've been fortunate enough to meet a few KQ guys & this is what I've been able to learn.
There doesn't seem to be a set number of DEP taken per year. Apparently some captains have been complaining about the standard of the cadets coming on line and whether that affects hiring practices remains to be seen.
If they do take you on, they cover all training costs, TR, etc. Bonding is 2 years. Met a senior FO on the 767 while doing exams & he told me that some DEPs went onto the 738, but due to issues of seniority & moving up from the E-jets, they might be looking to start all new recruits, DEPs & cadets, on the E-jets.
Hope that answers some of your questions.

btw, the hiring process is apparently painfully slow:ugh::ugh:

[typhoon01uk]

It's my understanding that the captains were complaining about the general low standards of the cadets. No specifics I'm afraid. As far as I know, no complaints about DEPs.
Sorry as well. I meant 737-800.
I met a captain while I was at KCAA and he told me that requirement for internal promotions to LHS is currently 3000hrs. The airline is trying to take it up to 3500 but the union is blocking it. That should take about 5 years but, as you said, I can see a problem with people getting stuck on the E-jets.
A friend of mine was hired by an airline in the UK and the whole process took 4 weeks! I wish KQ could streamline their processes. I ran across a cadet at KCAA who finished his training a year ago and is only now doing his Embraer TR!
It :mad: me off because by all accounts, they are a great company to work for if only you could get in.

[gear up job]

Excellent conversation guys! No harm done with some positive criticisms! If only KQ could simplify their process.

PB, i assume Ethio have a similar program like KQ. By the sounds of what you are saying, it appears Ethio airline are way advanced than KQ and moving on the right direction.

I totally agree with you PB about training in USA. High quality training and plenty of flying hours and also the promotion to LHS. Totally makes sense to increase the hrs which = increased standards.

I am really starting to reconsider my application with KQ plus the whole conversion process. I think one is better off joining them as a Captain if you only need 3k hrs.

typhoon01uk is 3k total hrs experience or 3k on the type?

[typhoon01uk]

My information is that KQ has different requirements for DECs compared to those promoted from within. A few months back, I got a response from their careers people when I enquired about requirements for DEPs and they said Captains need minimum 4000 hours with 2000 P1.
But as I said previously, internal promotion is at 3000hrs minimun. Don't understand why...

[mkenya]

Honestly speaking, I doubt anyone will be promoted to the LHS at 3.5 k hours. I know quite a number of guys who have been in kq for 6 years and they are yet to be promoted. I'd guess they are around 5k mark now...

I guess 3.5 k is just minimum, but not what actually happens on the ground. With seniority list and all that, it will take you perhaps 8 years, if lucky 6 years from joining to looking at your promotion.

[Darthveda]

hey guys also waiting for the January 2014 intake. the Website says shortlisting will be in January.

[gear up job]

All the best lad.

Lets us know if you receive an email from them and etc.....

[Darthveda]

cool will let guys know. Al the best too

[gear up job]

No worries lad. Check your Private Message (PM).

Thanks.

[Elpheba]

Any new updates?

[gear up job]

shortlisting will be in January 2014 so they say.

[Elpheba]

Thanks.

All the best guys, I don't think I'll be done converting by the time that date rolls around!

:{

[gear up job]

Hi All,

Happy new year.

Any updates on the Direct Entry Program 2013/2014 selection?

Thanks in advance.

[gear up job]

Thanks Lad.

Is it me or it's appears that there aren't many Direct Entry applicants. This thread is always very inactive compared to the AB-Initio thread.

Personally I think the Direct Entry Program has higher chances of landing a gig with K.A than the AB-Initio.

Happy to hear from past participants if this correct.

[mkenya]

I happened to have seen an advert on one of the local dailies a week and a half ago for direct entry pilots, applications to be made through KQ website only

[gear up job]

Thanks Mkenya

[Darthveda]

Word has it guys got mail yesterday for Interviews. Can anyone confirm

[gear up job]

Confirmed. I did not receive any email from K.A

Congrats to all (if not a rumour) to those who did. Hope you wouldn't have to wait for long.

[Darthveda]

Feb 4th is the interview date

[gear up job]

Did they call you for an interview Darthveda?

[Darthveda]

Not yet but still hopeful

[AMS]

Anyone have this email?

[gear up job]

Hi Lad,

Yeah there are about 2 guys who have received emails for the interview on the 4th of Feb.

Check the AB Initio Pilot Recruitment thread.

[AMS]

Ok I've seen that .....
Would anyone know what to expect interview or aptitude tests and if so - what are the profiles they use...

Verbal, numerical ?

Also do they Stop you from applying again if unsuccessful?

[Darthveda]

If you have done the interviews and fail to meet the benchmark at any stage, you are only allowed to re apply after two years

[AMS]

Cheers Darth....

Is this stated anywhere in their literature

[gear up job]

Let's hope some of the guys who have interviews next week will tell is more about the aptitude test.

Just to clarify, the first stage is the interview then if you pass you sit for the aptitude test then medicals. Is this correct?

All the best to every having interviews next week. Keep away from Pprune and study hard.

[Trackdiamond]

The nature and sequence of the battery tests has been covered at length in the "kq ab initio" forum.

Retake policy after two attempts(even if reaching final) is 3 years from the date of LAST test..they are very fastidious about it..no matter the impending pilot shortage.Hopefully they will learn that policy and rules that govnern them cannot be adhered to rigidly in competitive business dynamics. K.A. has a huge fleet order rolling as we speak.Pilot shortage is real.Expats work permits renewal refused as Min of Labour is aware of growing unemployment issue of Kenyan pilots ..so Kenyan crew..remain optimistic from this windfall!

[gear up job]

That's really awesome to hear Trackdiamond. I think it's just a matter of time before K.A management cave in and also start paying their pilots better salaries. Let's hope with the new management team coming in this year will have a better understanding.

Question for your Trackdiamond, do the DEC and AB intio all do the same aptitude test? Like to like?

[Darthveda]

I'm not sure it's written somewhere just heard it from previously interviewed guys. Anyone doing the interviews please send us feedback on what to expect.

[Trackdiamond]

The DEC pilapt primarily consists of Psychomotor and Flight test..which is the penultimate and final test in the ab initio and DEFO scheme too..same syllabus.For flight test the DEC sim screen might comprise of a slightly more demanding detail especially if they have flown jets and especially so if 73NG.
For DEFO with ATPL and 2500hrs they are exempt from the Airforce ("aptitude") test.All the test battery by dedfinition is pilot aptitude or pilapt and it is a misnomer to call certain tests aptitude nd others "psycho"..etc. So experienced DEFO with ATPL (minima being 2500hrs of experience no matter which aicraft type) will start with Psychometrics then Psychomotor and sim screen at the end.The medical is scheduled a late as possible to alo for the long lead before joining (if successful) so that it does not expire and has to be re-done(at K.A. expenses ofcourse). The delay couldbe a year or longer from last test to time you start groundschool!The medical is the common test ALL aplicants go through as well as Psychomotor. DEC candidates only perform Psychomotor and Sim screen.

There used to be an interview in ther pas at the end.A decade ago all candidates went through the interview before sitting the battery tets.Now the interview is just a formality to mark the end of the tests..am not sure if it even takes place.I had an interview in 2002 as a frst step and it was very technical..ATPL level Perf A, Gas turbines, IAP,Emergency procedures (Pressurization inflight abnormalities/emergencies, Radio comm failure after take off in IMC, common sense judgemental questions within the confines of Air Law when operating in aerodromes..PPL stuff..even got asked to interpret meaning of VFR symbols in Radio Nav charts (eg minimal Altitudes to fly over Safaro parks in Kenya...and what was the reason?to protect which life..human or wildlife!! As though KA flies to Safari parks with their fancy jets!).
Then there is positive referencing and investigation whether or not you are a genuine Kenyana...it was the reason I was rejected first time..by the then spiteful Chief..who has since got the sack!
DEC=Direct Entry Capt, DEFO=DE First Officer(should be Second officer! All start as SO except DEC! Some non rated Captains had to start as SFO fast track)

That's it in a nutshel.

[gear up job]

Many thanks Trankdiamond. That's some very good and meaningful insight!

You are a bloody legend lad.

So if you apply DEFO with the minimum 250hrs one will go through the process like AB Initio guys? That seems abit unfair coz the DEFO already have a license and some even frozen ATPL.

[AMS]

gear up -

Do you mean ATPL....

frozen ATPL is only recognised in the UK and to some extent Europe. There is noting like a fATPL - which is merely a CPL/MEIR

The general experience levels you will see on a fATPL holder is a CPL/MEIR + MCC & possibly JOC.

[TyRod]

Hi Guys,

I am a foreigner and I intend to convert my JAA CPL into a kenyan one since I will be in Kenya for a few weeks.
I have 2000 hours on JAR 25 and rated on B737NG, do you think my profit could interest Kenyan Airways after that?

Thanks

[gear up job]

Hi Tyrod,

If you are Kenyan citizen, you can apply coz the program is for Kenyan citizens only. However if you are not, don't bother because for starters to get a work permit in Kenya it's not that easy these days for foreigners plus Kenya has alot of local pilots looking for work too.

All the best lad.

[gear up job]

Hi All,

To those who did the test today how was it? Any need to know information you can share?

[Kenyann254]

Hey guys, a friend of mine sat the aptitude today. He says we should look at algebra, quadratic equations, cos, tan, in Chem there was a question on Daniell Cell, mechanical reasoning, cogs.. He was still trying to calm down as of an hour ago if he throws in anything new I'll keep you posted. I go in tomorrow.
All the very best guys!:ok::ok:

[gear up job]

"He was still trying to calm down as of an hour ago if he throws in anything new I'll keep you posted".

Was ur friend unwell doing the test or after the test?

[Kenyann254]

He was just nervous and trying to compose himself after a long day of testing

[gear up job]

Has your friend come down to share with us how the whole process went? The AB-Initio guys have been very proactive. This thread appears to be very silent dead!

[Alphatangotango]

Most frustrating exercise! There's math, physics, chem, mechanical reasoning, general science and instrumentation:ugh:

[Kenyann254]

Hey guys, our thread really is quite low. Not much discussion. My pal did sit his aptitude on Tuesday, I sat mine on Wednesday, the Maths and Chemistry for me were the killers especially with the negative marking, we are awaiting the results as the next step psychometric is slated for the 18/19 of this month followed by psychomotor on the 25 or there about.
On the Math paper, its all quadratic/algebra kind of questions then part 2 of the same paper features questions on speed distance and time mostly. Closing speed questions are in the mix as well. Everything is multiple choice questioning but as earlier mentioned, guess work might do you more harm in Maths. In Chem, know your chemical bonds plus there was a question on Daniell Cell. Mechanical reasoning and instrumentation are said to be where a lot of points are given. the more you can answer accurately the better. Check out Royal Air Force (RAF) aptitude tests online the questions might be of some help.
Rumors out there is that they are planning a double in take this year hopefully start training the new guys by April then a new group taken in for testing by June. As I said, all these is just speculation we have to wait and see. Otherwise lets keep each other posted and in the light of whatever's happening. Cheers guys!

[Kenyann254]

Got this from the ab initia* forum guys, pretty much accurate..


Aptitude test (go through form 1 and 2 books for the following)


Maths
· Sequences of numbers and patterns
· Closing and opening speeds
· Fractions (largest to smallest and vice versa)
· Algebraic questions
· Factorizing and solving quadratic questions
· Volumes and Areas of all shapes e.g. Cylinders, Cones, spheres




Physics
· Pulleys
· Mechanical reasoning (Google coz it’sa lot)
· Wheels and cogs (big wheels and small wheels, which turns faster and in which direction)
· Springs
· Electricity (voltage formula and other few stuff on electricity.)
· Abit of magnetism but am not sure whether it came
· Force and Moments
· Newton’s Laws of motion
· Reflection and refrection of light e.g. refractive index and the laws. Also dispersion of light ileinaform the colors of the rainbow in order.
· Speed of light is 186000m/s
· Density
· Linear motion e.g. Acceleration, horizontal and vertical projection,the 3 equations

Chemistry
· Chemical bonding
· Periodic table and chemical families
· Hard water and soft water – How to remove hardness
· Acids and bases ya form 1 and 2
· Salts and solubility of salts
· Electrolysis – things to do with the electrolytes mostly
· Balancing several equations
·




Aircraft alttitudes –similar to those in Per A (aircraft banking, climbing or descending at particular. This is one of the trickiest parts, study the different aeroplane avionics and the role that they play, e.g barometer, pitot tube, speed and one compass direction, altitude



The trickiest ni banking, read and have an understanding on how planes bank, angle of banking direction in relation to the bank and also Google how the different avionics can be combined in a picture to achieve desired direction, altitude and speed.


You will be told to interpret how those readings would appear on the instruments if a plane is moving in a certain direction, at certain speed and height.

Also read how to calculate the speed of objects moving towards or away from each other (relative speed). U will be given two planes with different speeds and u are told to determine after how long they will meet.


*** On the said day, have a heavy breakfast and/or carry some snacks for yourself. It is a whole day process without any meals or snacks offered at DEFTEC.

[gear up job]

Hi FoxTango,

Many thanks for sharing the information with us. I wish you all the best with your pal too. Don't forget to share more as you progress through the stages.

I was reading what you shared and i didn't know either to laugh or shake my head. K.A recruitment methods are just ridiculous and outdated! How can a DEC undergo the same procedures like a AB Initio person yet one already holds a commercial license.

K.A is part of Skyteam Alliance yet none of the other airline including KLM have such an outdated process! This is beyond people's imagination. No wonder carriers like Ethiopian Airline have out grown K.A because their recruitment process is very simple and they understand that for them to grow and report profits they need manpower.

[727-2F9]

@ gear up job: "Kenya has alot of local pilots looking for work too."

The profusion of commercial operators in Kenya, in an environment free of silly requirements like the a/c age limits in Nigeria, commendable facilities, good economic prospects and evidence of some government commitment, I find it hard to envision Kenyan pilots out of work. Can you educate me?

[Trackdiamond]

Gear up is absolutely correct.

If yiou want an education come to Kenya, go through the KCAA and labour permits and you wil see why.There shouldn't be any unemployed Kenyan pilots as per K.A's growth alone..but they are fastidious and archaic in their methods as stated by the threads preceding.

If you are a non Kenyan scrounging for a job I suggest Kenya is not the right destination.Try Maun, especially if you are white as that is their preference there from my prprevious engagement with them. If you think Kenya is mushrooming with airlines, you must be getting la la land rumours mate! Try next door in Ethiopia if rated and experienced.These days every country or Union tends to restrict employment to its nationals exceptions being the Gulf carriers(which usually look for jet rated and experienced) and perhaps Far East..and I notice they have a preferential recruitment interest in europeans there too.Take as you will..but those are the facts.There are a number of experienced Kenyan Pilots out of work..and I can guarantee you they will be looked at prior to any foreigner trying to phish for jobs where there are non in their own countries.

[KenAviator]

@Fox Tango. The aptitude test last week wasn't that bad. Just hoping for some good news this coming week. Just wondering why guys are not talking about the test on the other thread. Lets just pray for the best this coming week.

[gear up job]

Trackdiamond

I think K.A knows how to play BIG politics. Check out odericko2000 comments on the AB Initio thread.

KenAviator

The DEC guys don't talk at all! Not like the AB Initio guys who communicate regularly. Not sure why or maybe they are too good for us.......:cool:

Perhaps you can start being proactive. Wish you all the best lad.

[Kenyann254]

Hey guys, tomorrow is the said day for the Psychometric for most direct entry guys. 19th seems to be more for the ab guys. Wishing you all the very best guys!!

[gear up job]

All the best lads.

Kindly do let us know on how you go.

[Captain GG]

Hey!
For the DEC guys who did their psychometric today, is there a possibility that more Ab Initio applicants will do a psychometric on 20th.

Please share if you have any info, al appreciate.

[gear up job]

KenAviator, FoxTango.......etc

How was the Psychometric Test? Was it similar to the AB-Initio guys?

[ctrviolation]

It was exactly the same, they didn't separate into groups, there were only about twenty in the morning session yesterday.. I figure most of the rest of the group were slotted in for the afternoon session.

The career connections lady said that we aren't competing with one another hmmm...but the results are compared against previous successful candidates as a benchmark, I suppose if you score as well as the other successful employees you will be a good bet for them to assess further.

[Trackdiamond]

I believe ab-inito group performance is compared against ab-initio benchmarks and DEP against DEP...age is factored in and relative performance of agegroup world wide is used as a benchmark.That is what Madame Mkenya(the mzungu is a Kenyan) meant you are not competing against each other.I asked this question specifically during the tests both in Psychometrics and Psychomotor and got a consistent answer.I also happen to have read much on the Psychology of Aviation Test Battery which has evolved since world war 2 in europe..its not a new thing.

There is no 100% proof that these test results portray accurate pilot aptitude and abilities.I can not prove it on this forum but I have proof.It is more of a statistical excercise to conveniently categorise approximate findings of certain known personality traits in a test group controlled conditions.

[ctrviolation]

An exercise in futility you mean...? Unless it remained purely statistical and not indicative..
Anyway..I suppose it's what they have decided to use to filter out the crew they need..so its shape up or ship out..

How was the psychomotor..? That seems more like a relevant test.. Is it a half day exercise as well..?

[Mguyz]

Have the D.E.P guys already gone for the psychomotor test?

[Kenyann254]

As far as I know no DEP guys have done psychomotor just yet, I believe the 1st guys will sit for it on the 4th of March. Guys have been getting rejection emails or confirmation phone calls from HR.

[gear up job]

Do you happen to know the core reasons for people been rejected?

Not enough hrs? Experience? Attitude or failing the Astronaut K.A test!

[gear up job]

Has anybody advanced to Medicals?

How was the psychomotor test?

[Kenyann254]

Hey guys, the 1st group going for the medicals is tomorrow (11th) and 12th of March

[ctrviolation]

So this thread is dying ...yet we all know we're out there...
Those who went through for the medicals, any communication from the company..?
and any idea on what the next stage entails..?

Or perhaps other direct entry pilots who completed the tests could shed some more light..

All I've heard is that the test will be on the 73 sim.. is it just general handling and IF procedures...?

[gear up job]

DEC guys don't like us......:uhoh:

I am very impressed with the Ab-Initio guys. Current, Past and Future applicants continuously contribute hence Ab-Initio has 3,047 replies vs 104 for DEC!

[mkenya]

Yeah, the successful guys should keep this thread going, till the day you finally check out as an FO. It would be an indispensable resource for future DECs..

[Donateloh009]

The thread dies off because once guys make it to being FO then it's kinda hard for guys to discuss company issues especially in an open thread. Secondly, nobody dares talk openly since as an SO it's very easy to get fired. Thirdly, when you get a job and are still an intern, don't you jump and get your boss coffee just as he likes till at least you learn his/her ways of address things and that is when you talk???and that in KQ Is when you become Captain. That's when you talk. Pole. It's the way of the world.

[Trackdiamond]

I beg to differ!

The way of the world..is to donate! And good will retutn to you. Very selfish of those who make it to KQ and shut up.I started this DEP thread back in 2009 and some samrt alec thought it was irrelevanmt as there was the KQ ab initio thread.I seemed to be alone and I gave up the cause.I am glad to see Gear Up has revived the interest here.

All airlines have their threads including some of the best...you are not obliged to identify yourself in a manner that will hunt you down. Even in airline interviews there have been questions related to pprune posts..so the bosses know you are here..and so there is no point pretending otherwise.If it was malicious..all those that made it at Kq might be disqualified for benefiting from these threads.If anything it will carry in your favour to be here..as it demonstrates active pursuit of your dream, seriousness of purpose, comradrie and even library of aviation knowledge.

Am abroad..but if I was in KQ I would demystify the whole preselection process...all the way to F.O.line check! Were are here to learn by sharing..and it benefits every one as standards are automatically raised by improved knowledge and awareness.

[Donateloh009]

Yes we may have difference of opinion and I will not say you are wrong, but there are examples of people who didn't tow the line and sooner or later it caught up with them. Talk personally to your pals in KQ and they may give you these stories. Best thing is to learn from them.
I studied abroad and when I got to Wilson I was appalled by especially what they termed as INSTRUMENT RATING. Don't get me wrong in that they aren't qualified pilots, a good number are. But I towed the line, made sure I lost my 'weng' as it was bound to act negatively towards me. And you know what, it worked! I got offered four jobs while other people had been looking for so long even years.
You have to look at the whole genesis of the issue. Lack of facilities has resulted into there being only Route 1 and Route 3. Since this is also what the former military seniors currently at Wilson used during their training in their yester years, they still believed it was and still is adequate. Suitable in this day and age, no. Ask someone who did some IR training in Wilson then went to a Part 141 school in states or even flying at JAR. and because we have been taught to tow the line, we blindly say yes. Many pilots are ex military and even though retired, when you meet your commanding officer, you should see them salute!
KCAA is another mess with their exams albeit they have improved but there is more to be done. Most recent but I haven't confirmed rumour is In the CPL and ATPL exams guys no longer can use the CX5 calculator because it's programmable !!? and as if people still navigate using great circle! That's bloody ancient! Then why ask about weather for Britain and Moscow and some exotic latitudes that aren't practical. We all follow GPS or VOR ....and in Africa, ADF are still active. But that is it. Great Circle projections.WTF!!!??....if you ask KCAA, they say if other guys passed it, why can't you? And since you are the talkative one, you will be singled out, then have issues getting your licenses and probably just be failed to frustrate you. The head of KCAA Is retired Military....and in the military you don't question orders. Are you gutsy to write to him and tell him these things? Am not. Am not the first to have noted these things but why haven't other more older people been vocal....
My advice, as earlier said, learn about people's past mistakes if you have friends at Wilson, and you will see why even people yearning to change our Aviation industry tow the line....saving ourselves for the good fight where we know we will make an impact! Looking forward to your thoughts...

[gear up job]

When the Dec guys are after info, they would be post every second like there is no tomorrow. After going through the process and checking out as F.O....it's goodbye to pprune!

Have you guys read some of the comments from drivers applying for jobs @ China Southern? A driver would come out from an interview or Sim Session and immediately starting to criticize the company which is about to be his future employer! Ain't nothing wrong with that. They just saying how it is and passing out information. Bear in mind it is easy for the company to know who the driver is especially if you have just done a Sim session but the company don't do anything. Infact for most companies take what is written in Pprune as feedback. Free of charge feedback with no bias!

[ctrviolation]

I think the good fight is now... you have lots of grievances that we all have obviously faced at one point or another, but you must've gotten through them somehow I can bet you had help from some friends, good tips, research material..since that's how you have seen it has worked so far... so why shouldn't it work here..?
Nobody is asking for classified information this is a forum for banter from one pilot to another, team work has helped many more pilots than I can count..

For you to change the face of aviation in Kenya, you're gonna need to get to influential places that are high up there...and you know you can't do that alone...the good fight starts now.

[gear up job]

well said ctrviolation. Cheers lad! :ok:

[Donateloh009]

It's not yet time. I am working on getting to that place of influence, but hit some snags. However, the good thing is that I still have a good name. But the time is not yet right for me.

Secondly, I totally agree that I can not do it alone, hence why am vocal and trying to explain things here .....

Thirdly and lastly, I had written five points but upon explaining to my wife what am writing, she has urged me to be clandestine. See, she doesn't know much about aviation or the industry, but her concern is there. So, please, I urge you to rethink your position. It is not yet time.

[ctrviolation]

I must say I really don't understand your position, perhaps because I'm not wearing your shoes, but I sure hope when I get there.. I'll be humming a different tune.

Cheers guj, and correction.. its lass. :)

[Trackdiamond]

Rafiki...!??? :} I say...you got issues bwana!

I read and digested all you donated earlier.

Here's my advice.You talk almost condesecendingly but completely out focus...off track kabissa my friend! Define "towing the line" and WHOSE line??KCAA or KA?? Don't fly unless you have a destination in mind ..is the take away here.
My comments we're in support of Gear Up. Job..Lack of feed back to DEP from KQ S.O lads and other KQ entry pilots to beef up this thread of K.A.(KA not KQ as it is purported to be.K.A. Kenya Airways..not KyuQ Airways..we don't refer to airlines by their IATA 2 letter codes in here).
You introduced yourself as having studied abroad...so what?I and many others have..from juinior school to post University "abroad".It doesn't matter where you you study or even if you have multiple degrees like some of us do..you have to adapt to KA's requirements (be they sensible or not) to be accepted at Kenya Airways..It is not a fair player and has turned away many experienced safe and resourceful right stuff pilots due to their anachronistic intake methods as we'll as tribalism issues known at large.
About KCAA...we know about them.They have improved but still have a bad attitude toward pilots and admin is too beuraucratic.Yes I know their Chief and even had the pleasure of meeting him personally.He might be ex Military but is actually aproachable and nice to talk to.He helped me solve the problem for which I was grieved with at the time.There is a consumer protection unit at KCAA and there you can voice any concerns be they licensing, operational, or emplyment issues even.

[Trackdiamond]

I take it those that complain about the contents of KCAA exams being irrelevant or Kenya IR is outdated...are Frozen ATPL candidates? You can't have any measureable experience in the aviation industry and talk like that!

Whether Met questions relate to the SouthIndian Ocean or Kathmandu or Siberia..should not deter you from answering ...if you read your theory.As an ATPL(not Frozen nonsense)...you are rquipped to fly ANYWHERE on this globe! Not just Kenya! Having said that you will expect to see some Kenya related met in your randomly asked questions from their database which is sourced from JAA, FAA, and other ICAO national exams.

The KCAA disuading use of CX pathfinders is for. Reason.Don't call yourself a Pilot if challenged by a E6B slide rule! Batteries do die ..so your CX comp won't be of any use on some trans oceanic or Transcontinental flight when electronics have packed and have to fly by ref to your standby instruments.We all had to use the E6B from our initial conversion back in the late 80s to more recent candidates that sat the computerised exams.My critique is that some candidates cheated by using their smart phones...when the phones were allowed..as they simply went to aviation.tire and got the answers.I think phones are no longer allowed.

About the KCAA IRT...it is not about shooting aproaches like the FAA emphasises..it is a Command Instrument Raing based on the old British CAA standard...which was arguably one of the most stringent. Yes I know there some lenient and corrupt examiners but it doesn't detract from the fact its syllabus is not classified material and it requires you to be well informed and flying performance standards are high.Planes available may not be up to scartch in terms of serviceabilit..but then it is up to you the candidate to seek the plane that will help you pass..not stres you out die to poor rigging or faulty instruments..as have been observed on a few of the school's fleet.

[Trackdiamond]

If anyone knows anything about the details of the upcoming sim screen..do not be afraid to post the details here so we can share and prepare the next batch to breeze through it.This is not cheating..it is anticipation and preparation using all resources at hand...otherwise known as good CRM!

[gear up job]

Well said lad however i slightly differ with you. K.A is a fair go employer. I know of mates who have been given a fair go! Got nothing to do with their background communities and for you to quote K.A as " KyuQ Airways" man that's abit shallow.

Anyways back to the topic.......Any DE guys share with us were you are @. I know a few things here and there about 737. I may share with you guys to help you with your forthcoming Sim session.

[Trackdiamond]

Gear up..last time we discussed this you and I, you didn't give me the impression it was shallow..perhaps the shallowness of it is your depth of experience in the industry.I suggest you look at the statistics over the years.Just because a few mates of yours got what seemed to be a fair go doesn't change the way things have been done there over the years.How long has it been since you embarked on this industry after obtaining your license?Then we can talk about being shallow...sawa sawa?

[Trackdiamond]

Any constructive pointers on previous DEP's sim detail? It would be nice to demystify it.Is it identical for Captains as for FOs?.

If you have not done the sim screen or not rated on the 737 sim it would e better to be moderate about any inputs please.

[odericko2000]

Seems the DEP's are quite mean with regards to sharing any info, surely out of the 30 plus who have been through the Sim screening, non has anything to say on this forum? Maybe that's why the AB initios have a higher success rate through their screening than the direct entry's. They do share allot .

[cleared2fl340]

Did 30 DEP guys make it to SIM screening during this last interview process ?
30 is a huge number - please confirm.
Has SIM screening even been done for DEP with less than 2700hrs ? I doubt it ...

I'm aware the more experienced DEPs with 2700hrs plus did theirs about two weeks ago ... actually that's the last time "some movement by KA" was reported ....

[cleared2fl340]

There is a clear difference between saying "they have not done" and "they are not required to do".
I ASKED if "SIM screening had been done for DEP with less than 2700hrs".
I did NOT say that they will not be required to go through SIM screening ... it was a question (has it already taken place or not) ....

I now hear that they have ..... things have really gone quiet.

[Trackdiamond]

Hey vijana.

Let's break the ghoulish silence I here!

Here is the research I came with:
Intake 200 pipo!

Flt sim screen done.Awaiting final decision and assimilation into KQ..due to the huge batch expect next intake to delay till June even.

Simware:
A) for non experienced (non ATPL holders and <2700 hours)...IRT Rt1 (which I believe on a 73NG is a challenge even to rated Pilots due to excess perfomance vs Route distance and FL)
B)For experienced: Take off from DAR.Intercept QDR and QDM and return to DV and hold,then ILS.Asymetric Approach and S.E. GA.
8) Alternately..Departure out of Kilimanjaro...beware of Arusha next door..and don't fall in the disorientation trap that caught Ethiopian B7687 the other day! Also beware of Terrain!
40 minute pre sim brief.

Anyone with further details and correct version of the above...please advise...you won't be labeled a KQ pariah!

[cleared2fl340]

What exactly do you mean when you say intake "200 people" ?
I understand that about 30 DEPs guys made it to SIM screening. Orals yet to be done...meaning a further 15 might be shed off (from SIM screening & Orals).....

Can KA really have an intake of 200 DEPs ?
The numbers with CPL (ME-IR) are there but there's the "giant slayer" hurdles like hours, KCSE grades, height, aptitude, psychometrics, psychomotor, medicals, SIM test, orals .... but this is just the beginning .......there are internal exams and check outs.

In the SIM screening stage, is Instrument route 1 from JKIA or Wilson ?

[Trackdiamond]

Hey dude..this is a rumours network forum..not CIA.

The figure 200 was the combined abinitio plus DEP(both Cap and FOs).The figure is credible that is why there will be a delay in the next intake perhaps close to June after assimilating the succewssful candidates of the present batch.
Bow if you have any further wry remarks..take em to KQ HR..they might shed some further light!

And...your last question is interesting...I assume you are a pilot?? I mean heyy..Boeing 738..cleared from Wilson Instrument route 1 Fl100..that's gonna attract a few spectators behind RW14!

[Trackdiamond]

Cheers mate!

I wish they did consider A350...but then again KQ's fleet planning is more political than being a fully fledged department.I used to do Fleet Planning agaes back and I think KQ has signed sime kind of Memorandum of understanding with Boeing specifically not to purchase Airbus (after doing away with their A310/300 fleet in early year 2000s..this way KQ stands to gain on their Boeing acquisitions.We haven't heard KQ raise a finger of complaint about B787 issues..don't want to upset its American buddies...and wha of the American traffic right slots promised to KQ on buying Boeing..or was it just a figment of rumour...I supose after the JKIA Arrival disaster..it relegates ststus iof JKIA even further down the list in terms of security..and destination USA has become even more elusive eh?

If I was fleet planning at KQ I would definitely consider getting rid of E jets and replacing them with 318/19 and look at A350 for the long haul.Putting all eggs on Boeing Basket is risky and not sensible for operational flexibility.For low cost carrier having an identical fleet is better for economies of scale and uniformity of operation.

[mkenya]

200 guys!!! Now. does anyone know the share of DEPs and cadets in that number?
About Airbus and Boeing, I think Kq quit Airbus after the Abidjan A310 crash, when Airbus was blaming it on pilot error, and Kq was of the opinion that it was equipment failure, something to do with stick shaker.

[Trackdiamond]

Well P.B...correct Boeing doesn't accord Traffic rights.I was involved in Airline Planning in the past and so apologies if I gave that impression.Neither does FAA.It is between Nations and their Transport Ministries..under which FAA and KCAA fall under. Boeing howver has clout (and is a driver of USA Economy in terms of International Trade.Boeing has considerable lobby power to accord traffic rights to its preferred customers and that was why I mentioned what I said earlier whih you understood as Boeing having the right to accord Traffic Rights.I hope its clearr now.
I am a trained Airbus Pilot and I still can not fathom why K.A. is so averse to a proven product with bags of economic benefits such the Airbus Fly by wire family.It can only be a political aversion.K.A. was Airbus flavoured in its earlier days when B707s were being phased out in the 80s-2000s. As a Fleet Planner I would be risk averse to relying too much on anyone manufacturer.I personally believe the A350 will turn out to be a better product than B787 as it will have gained an advantage by learning the 787 shortcomings and ensure it is not launched with similar embarassments.It will also have learnt to reaolve issues from it technological Big Sister A380 as there will inevitably be some techno transfers to effect asirbus commonality.
A strange thing has caught my eye.Have you noticed Emirates flying A340s to Nairobi lately?Strange assignment for an A340-500 normally on longer haul routes requiring ETOPS exemptions perhaps.They belong to Boeng(on lease)..Boeing does that to compensate for late fleet deliveries etc..they were ex SIA.Boeing actually bought them off SIA so they can sell Boeing planes to them.That is how political the business of buying BIG Jets is!

[HMS Interceptor]

I recall about 34 ab initio candidates attending the medicals . Where did this number 200 come from?

[Kenyann254]

Hey guys, 200 must have been at the beginning during aptitude. As far as I know (my two cents worth) the DEP guys numbered btwn 24-30 before the flight test. I don't know how many passed and await the panel.
The other thing is as long as you have a CPL/MULTI-IR (requirement for DEP from the word go) you WILL sit the flight test in the B738 simulator and will be expected to fly an approach into an airport of the examiner's choice, thereafter a single engine approach of the said above. If you have experience on the B738, then your test will go a little bit further and will be critically watched as to how you handle the aircraft.
The >2700hr advantage only allows you to skip the aptitude stage and on to psychometric.

[Captain GG]

Hey, Trackdiamond:
Where did the 200guys come from man? Kindly fill me in. Cheers

[Trackdiamond]

Hey GG..this is s Rumours site..not an Auditor's union.Do your own homework..and don't fall in the habit of cutting and poasting other people's comments on to other threads.You will be frowned upon.You can by all means refer people to a a thread for any info you wish to make reference. You may also PM to make an enquiry and provided you are polite enough you might be responded to.

I will reiterate for the last time.The 200 is a combined figure of both Abs and DEP dating back to a backlog last year.Now stop obsessing with intake numbers and learn from the tips on how to get through! Why are you so worried about the 200 mate?Competition jitters??

And hey...GG...if in your limited view you reckon a rumour is not credible why go and cross post it?Do read the author's background and their posts to know what kind of info the said author is capable of posting before trying to didminsh their credibility.Is that clear?

[Captain GG]

Why are you so jittery? Anyway, if you recall well...i had "CC:Trackdiamond"!
I just needed a clarification though, my apologies if that didn't auger well with you.

[Trackdiamond]

It didn't auger well actually.No jitters though....am too seasoned for that.

If you hear any rumours on the current batch being finalised please gives us an alert so we can start looking into the next intake.

[odericko2000]

@Trackdiamond, much as I agree with most of your assessments with regards to aircraft acquisition and fleet management, however i do not think it is true EK is operating its A345 to NBO due to politics. EK has been planning to retire its entire A330/340 fleet for sometime now, most of the aircrafts are aging and are just unable to compete against the 77W on long haul ops. In terms of economics.

My understanding is they expect to be operating only 777 and A380's in the near future, there's also talk of acquiring the A350 once it's cleared for commercial ops.

[Trackdiamond]

@Odericko2000...let's not induce a thread drift butl I beg to differ.ayou misquoted me.I didn't imply the politics(or marketing for that matter) was being played by EK...rather Boeing if anything.Point was EK was using the A340 for operational convenience rather than economics.If you have a better assessment please dispaly it for us. EK has indeed ordered A350s and777s amongst other fleet(and it includes A319 ACJ b the way!).777 are more economical than A340s...why aren't they scheduling the T7s on the route.I got that info on Boeing leased A345 ex SIA from insider knowledge. The only benefit the A345 would be in terms of using it across any ETOPs segment(no etops for 340)..and the routing I flew on was via Aden and Rub Al Khali empty quarter of Saudi and AbuDhabi.That way they dodge Eastern traffic via Oman which results in longwinded Radar vectors and sometimes having to accept lower evels due to slotted eastbound traffic...which results in extra time and fuel.Its a bit of a mystery why the A345 is used on that route but it doesn't suit its range mission capability.I can only think that it matches capacity bookings and theyu don't know how better to utilize the A340s ay EK.Iy is inded a dying fleet..a product failure for Airbus I might add..when it came in the market it was to fulfill a certain niche but that didnlt last long with the advent of more manufacture product segomentation and better aircraft to fit those markets. When the A340-200 was introduced at GF they couldn't even fly non-stop to NewYork without a fuelling stop via Larnaca..and this was supposed to be the ultimate long hauler! Seats on the EK flight were too high and squeezed..and no footrest in economy...which was a pain in the traveller thrombosis..many pax noted that setback.Any updates on DEP process?Have they closed the current batch by announcing acceptances or not yet?

[odericko2000]

@Trackdiamond,
First of all we are in agreement the 777 is more economical than the A345, now make me understand why EK would deploy it on lower volume shorter missions, yet they would obviously need it for longer routes. The EK 77W's have a 100 more seats than the A345's, what would be the logic of hauling a 100 extra empty seats? as from May 1st they are now consistently deploying the 77W, in anticipation of increased pax loads, as a result of combining the two schedules out of Jommo. And it has always been that way with their ops, during low season they consistently operate the Airbus variants alternating between the 333, 343 and 345, when the loads are high, they up the capacity using the T7, which makes a lot of sense. I am a pax on this route every week through out the year so I know what I am talking about. I doubt the argument of Boeing leased airbuses ex SIA holds any bearing to how they deploy their equipment.
With regards to the A350, yeah they have ordered about 70 and expecting first delivery in 2019.

[HMS Interceptor]

I am aware that a runway at DXB terminal 3 is closed for maintenance . This has led Ek to reduce number of flights to NBO to 1 and have since upgraded to 77W. The maintenance is scheduled till June. Not only NBO is affected many flights have been affected. ION. I am really liking the A350 . KQ should really look into this. This loyalty to boeing widebodies without promise to flights to the US is just non-sense.

[Trackdiamond]

Any. Updates on when K.A. is finalizing the last DEP's fate and when they intend to call the next entry if not June?

[Oldtimer 14]

How successful are students who have studied flying locally in getting into the DEP program?

[Kenyann254]

Oldtimer, chances of getting into KA as a DEP are not realllllly dependent on where you trained or gain your flying experience, I believe they are quite fair and give the very same treatment and testing irrespective. As long as you meet the requirements the rest is up to your effort.
In other news, congratulations to the guys who have made it in! :D:D Long journey, sleepless nights but it has paid off. For those who didn't, keep the hope up your clearance will be issued soon :ok::ok:

[Oldtimer 14]

Thanks Kenyann 254. How about age what are the chances of someone in their late 20s or early 30s?

[Kenyann254]

Oldtimer, so far I haven't heard any cases of anyone within the said age bracket being turned down since it is not a requirement for their program (someone correct me if I'm wrong) unlike Ab Initio where there is an age limit. The chances are good therefore especially if you have something on the side like a degree or so..

[Pilot Breezy]

I know of a 45yr old who got hired as a FO a few yrs ago with a fresh CPL! I think DEP is very relaxed. If you are older(30's-40's), i would say best you also do your ATPL theory subjects and get a degree too like what Kenyann254 mentioned ealier.

[Pilot Breezy]

"Please be advised that processing of the next direct entry pilot applications will commence in September 2014 . We will however maintain your application in our recruitment database for processing then. We thank you for the interest shown in working for Kenya Airways, the Pride of Africa." - from Ab Initio web page.


Please be advised that processing of the next direct entry pilot applications will commence in October 2014 . We will however maintain your application in our recruitment database for processing then. We thank you for the interest shown in working for Kenya Airways, the Pride of Africa." - from Direct Entry web page.

Which is which? September or October? Does this also confirms that DEP has 2 intakes in a year!

[Pilot Breezy]

Any movements in the last few months?

[SlatsINOP]

I think they have just taken 14 DE right seat pilots.

[Pilot Breezy]

Thanks mate. Do you happen to know how many in total applied and when are the guys leaving for SA for MCC course and AMS for TR?

[Alphatangotango]

For DEP hop from right to left takes approximately 7 years ofcourse depending on the seniority list

[Pilot Breezy]

So when someone starts, how many yrs are they stuck on EMB190 before moving to heavies or medium bodies?

Apparently there are guys who have moved to RHS in less than 5yrs due to their exceptional work and discipline. True or just rumours?

[cleared2fl340]

I was told of this Captain who does not drink. He is therefore usually available on short notice, and in a condition to fly, so he made it in about 3 years.

[Pilot Breezy]

Yup! i couldn't agree more with you mate.

Discipline is a big factor in K.A drivers. Some drivers are overwhelmed with overnight success as such they can't keep up with work.

In the past i have known some drivers who have been stood down due to no show at work and failing basic flying skills!

[pilot4eva]

Is it possible to apply for a DEP with a UK CPL/IR?

[Pilot Breezy]

Nope! Only Kenyan CPL/IR and the program is only for Kenyan citizens.

[Airpilotobe]

I thought that the intakes were in September :oh:

[cleared2fl340]

I heard that they've recently returned some planes and that they are encouraging pilots to go on leave.
This expansion thing will not be that straight forward.

[Pilot Breezy]

Yeah all B767 and E170 have been phased out. Affected drivers have been moved to other fleets. With West Africa still a no go zone, plenty of drivers on the bench.

I think announcement of K.A 3rd quarter financial results will tell a lot. My verdict is recruitment will slow down until sometime next year. Happy to be corrected.

[Airpilotobe]

@Pilot Breezy I hope not some of us are really looking forward for the interviews to commence though it seems like a gruesome ordeal but it pays off at the end.:cool:


Has the 2013 group left for South Africa already?

[Airpilotobe]

What is the huge difference between Direct Entry Pilot and Ab initio in the KQ recruitments?:confused:

[SlatsINOP]

I Have recently heard the same rumours.It is apparent that there will not be recruiting for a very long time. Maybe 2016 when the expansion plans are expected to continue. Surplus drivers on wide body and on narrow body entry of 14 DEP plus about 20 Ab Initio which brings the total to 34 joining the narrow body fleets. (Embraer)
If you waiting to be recruited by the big house, you had better keep yourself busy for the next two years.

[Pilot Breezy]

After K.A have received all it's pending orders from Boeing, the only order left is the 4 option for B787. Recruitment is mainly driven by fleet expansion. I don't see anything exciting happening soon until K.A announces it's next fleet orders (737MAX or 777X maybe?). Currently they will be mainly focusing on repaying their new fleets to build equity for the next order.

[Airpilotobe]

@SlatsINOP kindly explain further on the narrow body entry and when it's likely to commence.

[SlatsINOP]

@The Unforgiven

This programme is for those who already have full licences (CPL./MULTI/I.R) or have flying experience in the commercial aviation industry.both non type-rated and type-rated Pilots are recruited to an airline and then trained on the specific aircraft that they have been recruited on.

So if you do not hold a full licence or have commercial flying experience don't apply. Try Ab-Initio training programme which requires no licence or experience.

[Airpilotobe]

Is it important to have a degree for one to be recruited. :ugh:Are non-degree holders ineligible for recruitment?

[Pilot Breezy]

Airpilotobe......I don't think so. It doesn't specifically say on their requirements. The other program yes you do need one.

Things aren't looking good for the carrier at the moment after the half year results. I don't think next year full results would be any better.

Without any new routes and just 11% growth in Africa routes, tells you alot about the carrier status quo.

We can only hope the results wouldn't hurt the ongoing recruitment coz something gotta give.

[Pilot Breezy]

Interesting to read they have impaired the sale of 777-200's. Looks like they have buyers lined up for them.

[Airpilotobe]

@Pilot Breezy when are the recruits likely to be called for their first interview it has been a long wait???

[Pilot Breezy]

I don't know mate. I don't work for the company.

Read earlier posts on this tread and you may get some clues. Alternatively if you have applied ring the HR.

All the best.

[AlwaysFlyAlwaysRead]

what's the latest cycle on the direct entry? guys who went for the tests and what not. With the KQ loses and what not is recruitment and training going on as normal?

[254HEAVY]

I have read most of the posts in this thread and it appears most of the guys who asked questions in past years and went ahead and gained employment with the carrier. They now don't bother coming back to the thread and at least give tips or updates on the recruitment status. I don't know if it got something to do with company policy were they are forbid to comment or say anything about it’s operations but it’s really sad to read how some members beg for answers and nobody carers to help them.

In Aviation we look after each other. It's a small industry. You don’t have to hold someone hand but you can point them to the right direction. That is what I was told and taught from day one of Aviation 101. So come on guys we can do better than this.

[cleared2fl340]

There's no recruitment going on from the information I have gathered, unless its one of those under the radar things - unlikely. These would be individuals who were left hanging after doing some stage, quietly being recalled to continue with the process.
The recruitment has been suspended indefinitely, because, while KA wants to expand, it has no money to hire pilots. There's also the issue of some pilots being asked to go on leave because of either lack of work or because the planes they fly are being returned/sold.
The rumor is that they might NOT do any further recruitment until 2016.

[cleared2fl340]

The recruitment process looks very fair.

It is only stage 2 that appears more like a fate issue (You are not competing with other KA candidates. The stage assesses your character, your ability to learn and how productive you can be under pressure. If your results fall among the top 30% of the guys who've done the test worldwide, you go in. A re-sit will only yield different results, if your previous results were borderline and subsequent sittings by other candidates, the world over, has pushed you within the 30%. Problem here is that KA delivers results as either pass or fail. If you fail, you might re-sit until "Kingdom come", not knowing you are in the lower 40% bracket.) The good news is that one can circumvent stage 1 and 2 with 2500hrs or thereabout.
Stage 4 is a day off, unless you are harboring medical issues you do not want them to discover.
Stage 6 is tricky because, in Kenya, just your accent or looks can cost you a job opportunity. This is the only place, people's hands can be held :( . Fortunately, its the last stage and you can't get there, if you are not properly qualified.
The rest is preparation.
As my Indian brothers say "Don't take tension !"

[254HEAVY]

i wasn't taking about K.A recruitment process and it's faults. I can't comment about the process coz i know nothing about it. What i am saying is that i can tell from the posts that some members who come on the tread and asked questions about the recruitment process are now pilots for the carrier and they have forgotten all about this thread.

When i said "You don’t have to hold someone hand" i didn't mean bribery or anything in those lines. What i meant was sharing information. Case example i was reading "flydubai thread" in the middle east forum. Both current and past pilots share information openly about their company and what to expect.

You can't tell me the 400+ K.A pilots none of them have anything to say or information to share!

[Trackdiamond]

too true about stage 6!

Any news on possible next recruitment for FEFOs?

Heard retrenchment is already taking place and 7777-200 to be sold? Why arent they getting rid of the surplus E Jets? Might they have overplanned the capacity for regional demand??

Isn't the ab-initio program costing them an arm and a leg.Perhaps they should furlough ab-initios and focus on getting paid for CPLs and ATPLs which they will train ata a faster rate too and get them earlier on line.I hear of rumours to retire the old hats early to pave way for the surplus younger generation coming up already recruited?

I think the aptitude tests should not stop at pre-entry.There are many who do not make it to line check either! Perhaps a sim screen at pre-qualification and post qualoification should yield a more realistic result and weed out those who genuinely dont meet the benchmark?

[cleared2fl340]

Sorry for giving unsolicited info.

What I've gathered is that once, one qualifies (passes stage 6), the training schedule can itself be a nightmare. It can take even as long as 6 - 9 months for some candidates. Some people don't make it to FO as mentioned above.
Under such circumstances, even I would rather be quiet until I make it.

As for the captains and FOs, pilots are generally scarce people with unusual schedules. It's unlikely they'll give you time, if you are neither a close friend nor relative. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule.

My observation is that sometimes, because we spend time on the net, we may erroneously expect others to do the same, but they don't. Imagine going through this site using your phone. Not many people have internet connections at home - even those who can afford it. If you meet some of these guys in person, depending on their personalities, they might share what's necessary.

[Trackdiamond]

Well observed fellahs. Well the unwritten rule is..open your mouth..and be prepared for the consequence....sure hope you got some vaselne on you to ease the pain! Coz you will be on your fours..and get the 12 inch boot (pure rhino leather):mad::}

[254HEAVY]

I thought the E-jets were more economical for K.A than the 737's. Am suprised that they can't manage them now.

The 772 have already been written off so that means they are gone! However aren't they getting more 737's,777W and 787's?

As for the recruitment aren't the cadets paying for themselves through a bank loan?

I think the downfall of K.A recruitment is the training schedule. 6-9 months is a long time waiting!

How come some of the recruits do not make it to line check? Are these cadets or DEC guys?

[cleared2fl340]

Cadets are given a loan through co-op bank. They have to pay it back.

Training duration depends on an individual. I know a fellow who was a captain elsewhere, who took about 9 months for his training. I also know a cadet who took a much shorter period.

If they get more planes and fly them half full or park them, where will they get money to pay the pilots (training and salaries) ? This is the dilemma.

I don't know if any DECs have failed line checks but cadets, yes.

[254HEAVY]

You go through all the hard work throughout your licence and TR training only to come and fail on line check! Sounds dumb to me!

How did they pass their TR training then?

[254HEAVY]

Over last week, this is what I found about K.A Direct Entry Pilot Program.

There are 2 intakes in a year. 1 in Jan and the other in June/July. The whole process from interview to LHS can take up to 12 months or more. Depend on the company needs.

If you trained in Kenya the odds for you to get the gig are very limited as the carrier doesn’t have faith with the quality of training in Kenya. However they encourage you to apply because their process is “true and fair”.

If you trained in S.A the odds are 50-50 depending on the institution you trained. However the carrier encourages you to apply because their process is “true and fair”.

If you trained in Europe, USA or Australia the odds are in your favour even if you may not be a good pilot.

K.A are very strict on the K.C.S.E grades marks they need for DEC. If you fall short on any of the marks they need, it’s a NO for you. The only way to bypass it is if you have >2700 TT. You can also bypass the aptitude test if you have >3600TT (Must have some serious time on Multies if not Jet)


The pay during training as a S.O is not good. Gets better after promoted to F.O. Promotion between S.O to F.O can take up to 12 months. Depends on how good the pilot is with his rudder and stick skills and the company.

Seniority is per date you joined the company and total hours at the time. You must have an ATPL and at least 3000 hours before you can be promoted to captain- E-jet. Some pilots have made it to captain in less than 5 yrs.

Disclaimer: The information i got was from a third party. A former pilot for the carrier. I do not know how accurate the information is. I stand to be corrected.

[Optimum Flap]

Does anyone know if the interviews are happening in Jan 15 Or any rumours otherwise.

As a side note, I read they are getting 3 737-800s with sky interior next year so its not all doom and gloom.

[254HEAVY]

Yes still planned for next yr. But who knows they may change their minds again at the back of their recent losses!

2 738 have arrived and 2 more next yr plus 3 787. All 777-200s have been grounded.

[Airpilotobe]

Hey...are the rumours about postponing the recruitments true, I really hope that the interviews are in January_ anyone with solid information????

[Ku_Bilot]

Yea I'm interested also.

[254HEAVY]

Some good news might be coming sooner than expected! BUT lets wait for June 1. KALPA......Thumbs up!

[mkenya]

Good news? when they are busy seconding their Pilots to ET and possibly Rwandair too, and some to Oman air with their wet leased 777? I doubt there will be any good news for at least two years.

Lets not even mention the elections next year.

[254HEAVY]

Yeah some good news might come soon. Fact is the carrier is short on pilots and what the current "management" is doing is they are selfishly trying to meet the company KPI so as they can get rewarded coz they want to be known as the "management" which brought the company back to probability. BUT at what cost? That's why KALPA is fighting them on some of their "operation pride" strategies.

[254HEAVY]

Looks like Qatar wants some of K.Q Pilots....for those who may wana jump ship. At the moment they appear to have better T&C's than the other M.E carries.....

Qatar Airways Careers - Current Opportunities (http://careers.qatarairways.com/qatarairways/VacancyDetail.aspx?VacancyID=111956)

[swiftfront]

Greetings pipes, I have just applied for direct entry and everything is quiet, do they start calling or emailing guys before the closing date or after

[Kenyann254]

Greetings pipes, I have just applied for direct entry and everything is quiet, do they start calling or emailing guys before the closing date or after

Hey,
Normally they start calling (by email) towards the end of closing date. Maybe this time it'll be in January.

[swiftfront]

Thanks kenyann254, will surely be looking at my email. The closing date was Feb 28th so we assume they will communicate in January or February.
It surely looks like not very many people have applied or guys are still in vacation....

[benalwa]

Hi guys. I gather the closure of applications is in ten days though the site says otherwise. This is from an internal email KQ sent to the current staff holding other positions, that are applying for DE Pilot position. You also need to make sure that you did do the assessment on their recruitment portal. All the best guys.

[Pilot Breezy]

Anybody knows if this year pilots will also be casualties of operation pride. I know last year KALPA made some noises and KQ given in.

[LADAN 2ALPHA]

Anybody knows if this year pilots will also be casualties of operation pride. I know last year KALPA made some noises and KQ given in.
From what I hear at least 5 of the old guys might have fallen casualties. I have to insist it is hear-say though. None of the others will be affected. Rumor has it that the old T7 captains who were complaining on being by-passed on the B787 positions were sent for their training and when they came back were failed on the checkout just to get rid of them. Politics at play as usual! But I figure recruitment of new first officers is going to take place regardless...

[254HEAVY]

Tells you why the carrier is on RED!

[benalwa]

its got to be the e jets mate. Just a rumour.

[254HEAVY]

its got to be the e jets mate. Just a rumour.
I always thought E-jets have sufficient pilots given that it's the entry aircraft for all pilots (AB & DE) and most stay on e-jet for 2.5 to 3.5 years. My guess would be the 787 given the current work load it's putting through and the quick turnarounds of trips!

He may also be meaning Captains as they are the ones leave for M.E

I stand corrected......

[benalwa]

Yeah indeed they were re calling the older 777 captains to man the 737 and 787 fleet. So you are right in some way.
Sadly the pilots resigning are the younger Captains who still have many a year to give to KQ. From what i gather the greatest attrition has been on the E190 and the 737 which is why this hiring process. And if we do have a shortage of about 40-60 pilots on the current fleet as it stands (50 % being E jets). Simple extrapolation will make me bet E-jet.

[e190kq]

summoned 14th.

[benalwa]

Yeap 14th it is man.

[Alphatangotango]

Hi Jockeys,
This year KQ will be recruiting a lot to replace last year's attrition. As at 31st Dec 2016 KQ had lost 83 pilots! The most affected fleet is the B737. So polish up on your knowledge base and get ready to fly the Pride high.

[Kaizibe]

e190kq and benalwa congrats for stage 1 invitations.

What sort of experience ans TT hrs did you guys have at the time of application?

[254HEAVY]

There is movements of B737 pilots to B787 and vise vasa from E190 Pilots to B737. Some of the E190 pilots could be bypassed straight to B787 like what happed to the previous lot. Until all this is sorted that's when newbies will start training or else the training department will be chaotic and they can't loose too many pilots from one fleet to the other.

[e190kq]

kaizibe I have 300tt including 30 hrs sim time which they insisted does not count. That leaves me with 270tt.

[jameselevun]

Let us see how it goes, excited about this new development from the pride

[Kaizibe]

kaizibe I have 300tt including 30 hrs sim time which they insisted does not count. That leaves me with 270tt.
Thanks for your reply. That's promising that they have invited all that meet the minimums. Wish you and everyone who have applied all the best!

[kibz2005]

Anybody on tomorrow?

[ngarenjoka]

Ive been summoned for Friday 17th :sad:

[benalwa]

For those going in Friday this is what i got to keep the thread going.
Please make sure you bring along your National ID card as indicated in the email from KQ (not passport). The test is conducted by KAF and they wont allow you into the barracks minus a national ID (to them a passport is not an ID, funny indeed)

Bridging courses are not accepted by KQ(3 guys were sent away on wednesday). If you dont meat the bench mark grades its gonna be kinda difficult.
Bring along some water for your self and a snack maybe, nothing is served at the barracks for strangers. The tests will be completed at about 4pm, with a 5 minutes break in between; and i mean five minutes not 5 minutes 1 second.


For the girls who are short and they wanna hit 5.4 which is minimum, get your self a good hair style that gives you a couple of inches. 2 ladies were bundled out at 5.38.

The test itself is high school stuff, just simple arithmetic but time is an issue. Its the general science paper thats got some high school chemistry e.g Effect of alkali on litmus, which metal burns brightest in oxygen, composition of a nickel cell, how to remove hardness in water, which direction does a magnet point when its freely suspended?, which metal reacts to formm sulphur dioxide. Thats as far as my memory serves me.
For mechanical reasoning a wrong answer is = -0.5, you rather not guess anything.

For Math, familiarize yourself with relative velocity, its gonna help you a great bunch.

Thats all folks. Wish you success.

[Female Capi]

Hello,
Thank you for the insight @benalwa

[Optimum Flap]

Thanks for the info benalwa. Sounds like it was full on day for you guys.

I always knew that one day, knowing the effect on litmus would come in handy.

All the best to all who are attending their interviews.

[jameselevun]

Day one was really long, time management is of the essence, all the best to those sitting their aptitude tests today, we will meet next week God willing :-)

[2454]

Hello guys. So basically to those who went for the aptitude interview. What type of questions came in hand and was math straight forward paper?

[benalwa]

@optimum flap, Yeah it was a full house mate. 46 guys sat for the aptitude on Wednesday. KQ said they are planning to have us come in for the psychometric next week. They are under a tight schedule to complete these tests within a minimum time i.e by April and indeed there is lots of movement from the E190 to B737 and B787 to create slots for the new recruitees. I am guessing most of us will end up on the E190 after all. And i pray all of us are taken guys. For the guys going in today, kindly pass on what transpires. Cheers guys.

[254HEAVY]

benalwa.....

Well done lad for sharing day 1 experiences! Wish you all the best and hope the rest will take the effort and share their experiences too.

benalwa did they tell you what sort of numbers they are looking to fill in?

[benalwa]

254 heavy..
You've been really insightful in this forum. We appreciate it. Keep the fire burning.
- Numbers were not mentioned though..

[Turbokite]

If they are looking at replacing the numbers that left to the sandpit, then they should be looking at recruiting about 70 to 80 pilots.

Unfortunately as 254 mentioned, a lot of the attrition came from the left seat, and i doubt many of the current senior FOs have the prerequisite qualification to upgrade to the left if any.

All the best to you guyz, the pride is really a good company to work for as a pilot.

[LADAN 2ALPHA]

From what I hear they're looking to recruit a total of 40 direct entry first officers. The recruitment is divided into five though of 8 each. So from the current recruitment 8 FOs will be taken then 4 other recruitments to follow with 8 FOs being absorbed each time...

[LADAN 2ALPHA]

The thing about the ladies' hairstyle is so true. Out of the 47 guys who sat for the aptitude on Tuesday there was only one lady. I've never seen anyone that lucky! She was bang on 5'4'' and the height was taken from the top of the hairstyle she had. If she had decided on a clean shave that morning then we'd have been 'Juja boys'! I saw another lady sent away at 5'3.5''! Talk about luck! So any lady going in with a height around that range, see your saloonist :E

[254HEAVY]

Wow one 1 lady out of the 47! Well if she puts on just a bit of some effort then she would be the luckiest of all the bunch! She is kinda guaranteed a RHS!

The carrier will continue struggling with LHS drivers. Most of the current Senior First officers when they get their commands, they just seat on them for 6-12 months then off to the desert were they are guaranteed "heavy" command time after 4.5-5 years not to forget higher wages than the carrier.

The carrier will employ expert's for LHS positions at one point. KALPA will make noises, this and that but it will all fed away given that they stuffed up their T7 colleagues careers & pay off!

[Turbokite]

I do not think KALPA shafted it's 777 pilots. They did what they thought was best, they chose to fight a mean spirited action from a management acting in bad faith and unfortunately they lost. CBAs are negotiated as a give and take, the clause 34b from the CBA that the company invoked was given as a show of good faith by the union, if ever the Company genuinely found itself with a glut of pilots in tough economic times. That was never the case, it was being used as a cost cutting measure and a tool to fight the union. Everyone knew the company did not have enough drivers at the time, depending on pilots goodwill to keep the metal flying, but they saw an opportunity to get rid of " expensive" drivers. How do you claim redundancy based on Type while you still have aeroplanes flying, the argument was fleet contraction, but there were fleets struggling with not enough left seat drivers. Let's just say the unprecedented attrition you see at the pride now is not because of greener pastures, the ME3 carriers have always been in existence but never have KQ pilots left in droves like they are doing now. It's a lack of respect and bad faith from management that precipitated the exodus. Ever asked yourself why the management is always so willing and ready to pay market rate for experts on whichever fleet instead of retaining their local talent? You know the bright eyed DEP being recruited now cost a fraction of what they would pay to have expert bums on those jets

[LADAN 2ALPHA]

Wow one 1 lady out of the 47! Well if she puts on just a bit of some effort then she would be the luckiest of all the bunch! She is kinda guaranteed a RHS!

I agree. She has a very good chance if only she can get herself through the outsourced parts of the interview.

[Kaizibe]

Any reasons why KQ has re-advertise again for DEC for another month? Those who made it to stage 1 or more on last recruitment any updates?

[benalwa]

its really interesting. Only 40 guys made it to the psycho-motor level, which was done Tuesday this week and nobody has gotten an email as yet from KQ as a regret or otherwise. I understand the Sim is down for maintenance and maybe this is why they are buying time before they call people in for SIM.
I really don't have a certain answer to all these.

About the new posting, my guess is they are just short of numbers and they need people.
Funny enough they chopped off almost 120 at the psychometric level. Its just all confusing right now.

[benalwa]

By the way the precious lady mentioned was a casualty of the psychometric. Yeah there is that rule of hanging out to dry for 2 years before you re apply again. But she has re applied. Talk of tenacity.

[jameselevun]

I also noticed there was some repair work being done on the sim, it is amazing how the numbers have reduced drastically post psychometric. Fingers crossed for the remaining stages,

[Female Capi]

Rumor has it they didn't get the threshold they needed hence the re-advert. Its ironic how they are re-advertising yet they still have a good number of 'cut' applicant to select from.

However for those who didn't make the deadline for the prior application this is redemption so there's a window of opportunity including for those who got cut persistence pays..eventually.

[e190kq]

The simulator is ok. Jambo jet guys have been scheduled for Wednesday for their flight test. They sat their psychometric a day after we did our psycho motor yet we haven't even gotten any response and psycho motor results were send to Kq the same day we sat.

[Turbokite]

:confused: Jambo jet is recruiting onto the 737?

[jameselevun]

Also heard that jambojet guys are going in for sim assesment today and tomorrow. Jambojet is recruiting for the q400 not 737.

[benalwa]

Speaking of jambojet. For people without a type, will they bond you to recoup the training costs or whats the arrangement?

KQ really gets on peoples nerves sometimes. The career connections guy said out-rightly that they did need a quick turn around time and yet now its one week and no response from them whatsoever.

[e190kq]

Jambo jet bonds you. My mate is currently in Canada doing the q400 with them. Almost the same conditions with KQ minus the KQ politics and tests. I concur with you. KQ can leave you a nervous wreck if you don't take care. I don't know how many times I have checked my email . Definitely in the hundreds. I decided to get a life and leave it with the lord since at that rate i was gonna get a heart attack then fail the medical stage if i ever got that far.

[e190kq]

thank God just got a call for medical. Tuesday

[benalwa]

Ha. E190kq thats funny; talking of the number of times I've checked emails, its mind boggling.
Congrats for going through to the next stage.

[254HEAVY]

JJ is looking at expanding aggressively and taking some of the carrier's routes hence the priority. Also with their acquisition of the Dash 8 without sufficient pilots is a loss in making and as a LCC that can turn very bad for them!

Remember the Code Sharing agreement signed between the carrier and JJ last year, the carrier now can sell JJ network to passengers coming from across the world also adds to the urgency of them operating to optimum levels!

Canada? wow! that must have costed a bit of a coin for JJ considering ET has a fitted and maintained Q400 Sim trainer from CAE. Also certified by all international agencies!

To all waiting to hear from the carrier, your patience will be tested beyond belief! All the best and good luck to those who have made it into the next stage!

[jetpet]

JJ has hired pilots and all flights are crewed on the Q400, with another two sets awaiting to be trained, there will be another delivery some time next month i hear.
Once you purchase a new aircraft, there are various options and solutions you are given and mostly if it a type you don't operate, you choose sim slots as part of the package and they are paid for by Bombardier. Technically the sim is " free " for JJ.

[geokar]

Hi Guys,
I am looking to start pilot training in South Africa with the hopes of coming back home to fly with KQ, am therefore looking for advice to help me settle on the right school and the right kind of training. I would glad if any of you gave their 2 cents on a some of the questions that I have:
1. 1st of all Progress/43rd/AVIC. Which on would you guys recommend based on the cost and quality of training

2. 43rd have this programme(iATPL) where you study for a CPL MEIR that includes Jet Orientation training on an A320 or a 737. Would this increas my chances of employement as a DEC

3 Can I be accepted as a DEC with 250hrs accrued during training or do i need to accrue more hours flying commercially on any other machine?

4 Lastly from what I gather is that KCAA requires you to have 250hrs before issuuing you with a Kenyan License, what then happens when you have only accrued say 238 hrs from your training and you need to convert?

Any replies will be highly appreciated. Thanks

[kibz2005]

1. Everyone has different experiences based on their personality, ability to adapt to pressure and change. That being said, a licence is a licence. What gets you the job is your character.

2. A type rating on a jet, without any actual jet time is close to worthless, crazy expensive and expires after 6 months. If you do make it to the national carrier, you'll probably start on the Embraer anyway. So don't waste your money on that. Invest it in a Caravan rating. That might actually find you some work.

3. DEC stands for Direct entry Captain. So..no. Nobody is going to hire you as a captain with 250 hours. You can find work as a first officer in GA or, if you are lucky enough to time it right, the national carrier might be recruiting around the same time you finish your training.

4. You will need to fly another 12 hours. Even if you had 249.5 hours, they would make you fly that extra half hour to make up the difference.

Words of wisdom; KQ is not the only employer in the country. If you truly want to be a pilot, open your mind to other opportunities. There's plenty of adventures to be had and lots of experience to gain in the East African bush. The airline interview is not easy and usually about 1 in 10 people make it. If you fixate on getting an airline job, what happens if you don't make the cut?

[benalwa]

GEOKAR:
I know its kind of confusing for you right now. The aviation jargon and all. But we all do learn the ropes and eventually we become.

Well if you look around. There are better offers out there. That is CPL Multi IR + Type rating+ Line training (500 hours on jet). And some offers are much cheaper than 43rd air school. If you want to get into the airlines probably that would be the best bet.
You just want to do a risk and self assesment before you embark on any training program.

[geokar]

Thanks for the Enlightening Info guys.

[etriumph]

Hey everyone,
Anyone tried to apply for direct entry for KQ online and had issues with the website. (both browsers i use-chrome,safari- dont show the application assessment). Any help? Thanks

[jameselevun]

Am I the only one who is refreshing his email inbox every hour waiting for the sim call up?

[benalwa]

Jameselevun

Yeah, you wake up at 2am thinking maybe, just maybe a late decision was made to call you in for sim. Well, there is nothing from inbox to spam. The same process is repeated at 7am, 7.05am, 7.10am and the sequence continues. Tell you what, I quit and decided to get a life.

Etriump
Just keep on trying. The site has been returning errors ever since.

[Munjus]

thank God just got a call for medical. Tuesday

Any news on new direct entry recruitment?

[Munjus]

Anyone out there who has applied for direct entry still waiting to be called ??

[Munjus]

Hey guys Any new direct entry interview dates ?

[Deltasaf]

Sailing on the same boat brother!

[e190kq]

Any news on new direct entry recruitment?
just heard they will email by the end of the month. our group started flight tests today. Use this waiting time to study and pray. you need God, hardwork and luck to be on your side...