Broring question about Rating re validation / renewal

[Skyseeker]

Hi everyone

Hopefully someone can confirm or correct my conclusions drawn from Lasors.

I have a JAR PPL(A) and an expired SEP rating. This expired more than 5 years ago. So, in order to get SEP rating back, i think i have to do the following:


Renew my medical
Undergo flight training at my discretion
Complete a skills test with an Examiner ( is this a full PPL skills test that I would have taken to get my licence?)
Send the docs off to CAA (with a cheque!) for them to endorse it onto my licence


Then to keep it current I need to fly 12 hours every year including 6 hours as pilot in command with 12 T/O's and landings and a training flight of at least 1 hour with an FI?

I am also looking at doing a TMG rating. When that is passed, does that automatically renew my SEP rating or do I need to do both separately?

Sorry for all the questions, but I have been away from flying for so long that the memory is a little foggy!!

Thanks in advance.

SS

[Genghis the Engineer]

Hi everyone

Hopefully someone can confirm or correct my conclusions drawn from Lasors.

I have a JAR PPL(A) and an expired SEP rating. This expired more than 5 years ago. So, in order to get SEP rating back, i think i have to do the following:


Renew my medical
Undergo flight training at my discretion
No, at the flying school's discretion! You only pay for it, they decide what you need.

Complete a skills test with an Examiner ( is this a full PPL skills test that I would have taken to get my licence?)
Technically slightly reduced, but it's a moot point. For all reasonable purposes, it's a full skill test.


Send the docs off to CAA (with a cheque!) for them to endorse it onto my licence


Yep.

Then to keep it current I need to fly 12 hours every year including 6 hours as pilot in command with 12 T/O's and landings and a training flight of at least 1 hour with an FI?

No, in the second half of every two years.

I am also looking at doing a TMG rating. When that is passed, does that automatically renew my SEP rating or do I need to do both separately?
No, they're separate classes.

Sorry for all the questions, but I have been away from flying for so long that the memory is a little foggy!!

Thanks in advance.

SS

Time to do some reading! LASORS and the PPL flight training guide (Thom or Pratt) would seem in order. Irv Lee's "Rust Remover" DVD might be worthwhile as well.

G

[blagger]

Genghis

The OP is quite right - if you hold a TMG and SEP you can revalidate by fulfilling the experience criteria in either. The PPL skills test is also far more involved in the navigation section than the SEP test is required to be.

[Prop swinger]

I think the OP may be asking whether the TMG rating test can count as the SEP renewal flight test, to which the answer is no, SEP renewal & TMG rating tests have to be done separately.

[Whopity]

Complete a skills test with an Examiner ( is this a full PPL skills test that I would have taken to get my licence?)No, this is a common misconception. The Licence issue Skill Test is never repeated. The Skill Test required for renewal is exactly the same as the Proficiency Check used for revalidation, it is only called a "Skill Test" to match JAA definitions and as of April 8th under EASA, it will be known as a Proficiency Check for both functions. Content here (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1157.pdf)
Section 3 Navigation will be at the Examiners discretion. I take it you have measured the 5 years fom expiry rather than the issue date?

[Skyseeker]

Thanks everyone.

So lets say I have passed my SEP rating test today and then go on to do a TMG rating, can I use the hours logged in a TMG over the next 2 years to satisfy the requirements for revalidation of the SEP rating even though i might not fly 1 hour in a SEP?

Thanks
SS

[Prop swinger]

Yes. Once you have a TMG rating, TMG flying counts for SEP revalidation & vice versa. As long as you don't let the ratings expire, revalidating one revalidates the other.

[Skyseeker]

Sorry chaps, having re read the thread that does appear to be the view... Once you have both ratings, you can revalidate either rating by flying the required hours in either class or a mixture of both.

[Skyseeker]

Thanks propswinger

[Genghis the Engineer]

Genghis

The OP is quite right - if you hold a TMG and SEP you can revalidate by fulfilling the experience criteria in either. The PPL skills test is also far more involved in the navigation section than the SEP test is required to be.

Okay just "reduced" then.

But as already said by others, you do need the separate class ratings on your licence before you can fly those types as PiC.

G

[squawking 7700]

Skyseeker, if you've got a JAR licence, have you renewed it? As you haven't flown for more than five years you may have overlooked the licence renewal.


7700

[Skyseeker]

Squawking 7700 - indeed i did renew the licence a couple of years ago so thats fine.

Thanks

[BillieBob]

Just out of idle interest, how did you renew your licence without a valid rating?

[Skyseeker]

My SEP rating expired in 2006 and I renewed my licence in 2009. The CAA didnt seem to have a problem with that......or have I slipped through the net....?!

[S-Works]

BillieBob- Just out of idle interest, how did you renew your licence without a valid rating?


The CAA renew licences without valid ratings all the time. When I questioned it they said renewal of the licence is independant of the ratings contained in it. It just means that if you dont have a valid Class or Type rating you have a licence but cant actually go flying.....

I look forward to seeing a bit of cutting and pasting to argue differently. :)

[mrmum]

Bose,
Not sure if this'll please you or not, as I'm not actually disagreeing with you, you're right up to a point (that being 5 years), that the licence is independent of the ratings and you can renew the PPL without a valid rating, although you do need a medical.
Anyway, I've cut and pasted from the renewal form, as you're looking forward to seeing some.;)
Form FCL504 Issue 7 (SRG 1102)
4. TYPE / CLASS RATING VALIDITY
In order to renew your licence, you are required to have held a valid aircraft rating for any type/class rating that has not expired by more
than 5 years*, and a medical certificate appropriate to the licence being re-issued valid for the first day of issue of the new licence.

[S-Works]

Lol, no I am fine with debate. Just not black and white assertion.

I merely stated the fact that the CAA were renewing licences without valid ratings. You have refined it to the point that the rating had to be valid within the last five years. However it does make the point the licence can be renewed without a valid rating.

Otherwise you end up in a cycle where someone with an expired licence and rating would struggle to renew if for example they had a run of bad weather. At least by renewing the licence and medical they can then go out and sort out whichever class or type rating is required.

[Halfbaked_Boy]

5 years is a popular figure with the CAA...

5 years allowed between rating expiry and licence renewal...

5 years allowed between Class 1 expiry and renewal...

5 years salary it's taken me to pay for all of above...

Would be interested to know what the footnote reads that the asterisk refers to in that quote above.

Etc etc :cool:

J

[peterh337]

It is certainly possible to keep a UK JAA PPL "valid" with the 2-yearly check flights with an instructor, while allowing it to expire under the 5 year rule.

Hundreds if not thousands of pilots did that at the first 5 year anniversary, because no reminder was sent out. I did it too, but fortunately I had the FAA PPL/IR by then and was flying only my own N-reg.

I renewed the UK PPL recently so I could get the "EASA insurance policy IR :yuk: " on it.

[Genghis the Engineer]

One of the few positive things to come out of the new EASA-FCL is that I think that licences will become non-expiring.

G

[BEagle]

Would be interested to know what the footnote reads that the asterisk refers to in that quote above.

You can read the full text at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG1102FF.pdf , however, the relevant footnote reads:

*Where the validity of your most recent aircraft rating has expired by more than 5 years, you will be required to renew an aircraft rating within your licence prior to licence re-issue. If you are currently flying under the privileges of a non-UK ICAO licence or are a current Qualified Service Pilot, and are flying an aircraft type/class within your UK or JAR-FCL licence, you will not be required to renew an aircraft rating but will be required to provide evidence of current flying practice..... (etc. etc.)

Yes, part-FCL licences will be valid for life.