Flying in Santorini

[Dave Gittins]

Mrs DG and I have decided to have 10 days in Santorini around the June bank holiday for her birthday.

As ever when I go on my hols, I want to have a couple of flights while I am there. Anybody been there ? got any contacts ? any ideas what makes a good trip for an hour or so ? (as it's a small island amongst other small islands). Possible land aways to put a few more airfields in my book ?

So far have found and emailed this guy Santorini aeroclub, Greek flying club (http://www.thiratours.com/Santorini-Aeroclub.htm) and am awaiting a response, hoping that will be the answer.

However, all help gratefully recieved.

[achimha]

What is a "Gessua 172"? :)

Apparently the Gessua 172 is part of the AA5 Traveler series.

[peterh337]

I went there VFR in 2005 - trip report (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/santorini/index.html).

That was my last long VFR trip before I got the first (FAA) IR in 2006.

No avgas there; the practical route (depending on your plane; you need one with areasonable range to go around Greece easily) is probably via Corfu (http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m74/peterh337/corfu-base-big.jpg) LGKR, or via Athens LGAV but that is more pricey. Other routes are possible; we will be doing the eastern Aegean this year, landing at Bulgaria or Macedonia and then stopping at Alexandros (customs but no avgas), visiting Samothraki (http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m74/peterh337/samothraki-full.jpg) and working our way down to Sitia (http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m74/peterh337/sitia1.jpg) LGST in Crete. But I can fly back from Sitia all the way to Croatia and then 1 more leg to the UK.

There is very little avgas in the eastern Aegean until you get to the SE end of it. Thessaloniki LGTS has it but it is aeroclub-only.

This Greek AOPA site (http://www.aopa.gr/en/faq.asp) is the general reference.

Greece is a lovely place to visit. I have some writeups here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/). The airports speak good English and what you see is what you get. People there, and Greeks generally, are friendly. The pilot community there is small but super.

You must contact each airport directly before you go there and check opening hours etc. They are mostly notamed; the Greek AIP is full of crap (like most others, frankly) and until about 2 weeks ago it was not online so basically nobody read it, so airports use the notam system to publish opening times etc. So airport notams are vital.

An earlier 2004 trip to Crete is here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/crete/index.html) and this contains a lot of detail to enable someone to do it under VFR. I did that trip not many hours after getting the PPL in 2001.

You don't mention the plane but having something with a decent range helps a lot.

[007helicopter]

I do not think DG intends to fly there from the uk but rent a plane from a club while there.

[belowradar]

DG What a wonderful place to fly, I flew down there last July with my wife via Corfu and Meghara AFB (fuel stop for fill up at Athens). Santorini has limited ramp space but free landings in the season !!

Recommend a short local flight over the Caldera (volcano) and around the island to see cliff top towns and Perissa beach area.

Pilot Heaven and for anyone flying down there a stopover in Croatia is recommended, try ZADAR.

[peterh337]

OK I probably misread :)

You cannot rent a plane in Greece.

All you can do is find a club and go up with an instructor, etc.

There are no clubs at Santorini (no avgas so no GA). There are some at Megara near Athens.

[Dave Gittins]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. We will be flying there in an orange A319 from Gatwick.

The plan will be to find somebody with an aeroplane and instructor who in exchange for some euros will let me drive, keep me out of trouble and suggest the best route for a nice trip round (noting what belowradar says).

On my previous trip to Greece, to Heraklion 6 or 7 years ago, I found a small flying school (a single 152), operated on the main airport by a local guy who had trained at Stapleford and to use the aeroplane we had to creep out of the back door of the terminal, hitch a lift off the "follow me" car to near the military bit of the airfield and fuel the Cessna from some cans we found beside a deserted shed. I also had a lengthy debate with two ladies from the Greek CAA who had never heard of JAR and insisted that without a Greek license I was not qualified to fly a 152 that had previously been on the British register.

Despite the trials and tribulations, all worked out well in the end and, despite the apparently curious lineage of a Guessna 172 I hope it will again.

Peter - The guy with the website claims he is Santorini Aero Club. I hear what you say and await his response.

[Kyprianos Biris]

Dave as far as I know Santorini does not have an active aeroclub neither have any of the near by islands.

Here you can find flights schools and aeroclubs that have websites in Greece
Hellenic Aviation page and picture portal - General Aviation in Greece (http://www.hellasga.com) --> Links

Here is general flying information about Greece
AOPA Hellas INFOS (http://www.aopa.gr/en/infosdetails.asp?NEWS_ID=1)

I coown and fly a TB20 from Athens Megara but it is privately owned and does not come with an instructor :O

Santorini is a great island to fly above and around.

Within 15~30' flying you are in Paros, Naxos, Milos or Mykonos

[proudprivate]

Admittedly, a bit late in the day, but I wanted to comment on


You cannot rent a plane in Greece.

All you can do is find a club and go up with an instructor, etc.

There are no clubs at Santorini (no avgas so no GA). There are some at Megara near Athens.


A Greek client of mine just told me (after my relaying Peter's wisdom to her :)) that you actually can rent a plane at Tatoi (LGTT) for hour building from the Mesogeion Aeroclub.

Ok, not on Santorini and just one C172, but hey, it flies and its base is only half an hour drive from where orange A319s land.


I also had a lengthy debate with two ladies from the Greek CAA who had never heard of JAR and insisted that without a Greek license I was not qualified to fly a 152 that had previously been on the British register.


:D:D Yes that was the whole point of European integration, right ?

[peterh337]

Interesting... Tatoi LGTT is closed to GA (it's military). The only time it was open was on show days, the last of which was 2008 IIRC.

If there is a club there which rents out planes, that's great. No reason why they can't.

[NorthSouth]

I was in Santorini last month and had a nose around the airport. It's essentially a military airfield with a civil terminal grafted on. No sign of the fabled Santorini Aero Club Guessna or any other based GA but there were a handful of light aircraft visitors during the week including an Israeli 182 and Cirrus. I suspect the crossing to Crete is challenging since the entire intervening airspace is a missile range, monitored by a radar overlooking the airport - which must be very frustrating for Easyjet etc as they are forced to go round and round the VOR hold after a 3+ hour flight from the UK - it's procedural only.
NS

[peterh337]

I went there in 2005 (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/santorini/index.html), VFR, and into the vicinity a few other times, and never had a problem.

I think the whole area is full of military airspace but in reality it isn't active. probably too close to Turkey :)

The biggest issue with Santorini is the lack of avgas (it has Customs of course, due to the holiday flights) and with the place being full of blatent ripoff merchants (presumably due to the heavy cruise ship business) which is very very unusual for Greece. But it's a lovely place to visit

http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/santorini/santorini-sunset.jpg

[A and C]

I expect that those who think that airline flying is all about instrument procedures do get frustrated with all the non radar procedures in the Greek islands, it is a real pain if you are wedded to the FMC and a screen full of magenta string.

I have on a number of occasions pointed out to the young and overly keen that they have the option of using the large reality display that is provided in the cockpit, most of the pilots on the private forum call this a window.

For those of us who enjoy flying the Greek islands are one of the few places that you can still kick out all the automatics and fly an airliner visually........ And long may it stay that way !

[NorthSouth]

Indeed. But what do you tell the controller when he asks if you are visual with the preceding aircraft on the procedure, just called base turn complete at 9 DME, and you ain't? :confused:

NS

[peterh337]

I know that isn't "visual" but surely you would see him on TCAS?

[500 above]

You would have it on TCAS but that is not the point. Visual is visual. N - S, usually we do visuals at all of the Greek islands and Cyprus. However, yesterday evening, we're number seven for the approach at Larnaka and in the hold. It can get busy in the sleepy hollows.

There's nothing better than tanking in on a visual downwind over some of Europes best waters. Agreed A & C, long may it last.

Btw Rhodes also has a small aero club that will rent you a single eng a/c. Failing that, maybe think of going to Cyprus for a holiday. You can rent all sorts there such as DA40, C150, C172, TB10, PA28's etc. Paphos is a quiet international airport. Stunning scenery and you can fly to Beirut within an hour, Rhodes is a good day trip also from Paphos.

If you get down this way, PM me. I maybe able to help.

[Union Jack]

All good interesting stuff, but is there any chance that Dave will report how he got on in Santorini - with the flying that is?:ok:

Jack

[A and C]

If you are visual you Should not get yourself into that position however things can go wrong................


Going into Kefalinia in the VOR app with a circle to land and a cloud base at the 1800 ft MDA, no problems getting visual with the field and performing the visual circle, the only problem was that about 150 ft about 250 seagulls that had been warming their bums on the runway suddenly took to the wing.......so into the go around with a 350 hour First Officer who was not expecting this. However the biggest problem was that ATC (assuming I was going to land) had cleared another aircraft for the VOR approach and had put us head to head.

The only course of action was to fly a very tight circuit and stay visual, ahead of the other aircraft and land before the seagulls returned for another bum warming on the runway. I am guessing the circuit was tighter than is usually flown at Booker.

An unusual situation but all in a days work for those who work for the charter airlines and spend most of the summer in the Greek islands.

[Dave Gittins]

All good interesting stuff, but is there any chance that Dave will report how he got on in Santorini - with the flying that is?

Jack

Sure ... No amount of emails uncovered a light plane in Santorini - the "Guessna" is a myth. I did contact George in Iraklion, with whose Cretan Eagle I have flown before and he had no knowledge of anybody in Santorini, he did offer to bring the 152 from Crete but understandably needed to charge 2 x 1hr positioning.

When I got there, with easyJet from Gatwick, there was nothing in sight, other than a couple of biz jets and a wreck of a twin.

Nobody I spoke to (including locals) knew of any based light aircraft. My hotel had local sightseeing flights advertised but when pressed said it didn't happen anymore. Somebody did take bookings for helicopter tours and shoehorned all his bookings into a single day, once a week, when he apparently positioned from Athens. Same helicopter apparently does the medivac flights to Athens as the local medical facilities don't include much beyond A & E and mums in labour often have their offspring at 1500 ft over the Aegean.

.... so I stuck to sunbathing and drinking and waited until I got back to Redhill.

Hoping this weekend will let me do some sunbathing and drinking and good luck to anybody that wants to take on Atlas. Next weekend is "le shuttle" to France, whilst Surrey is given over to Olympic cyclists.

[A and C]

For a long time the only light aircraft that were on Santotini were an Islander and Aztec, both of them abandoned.

I did enquire about putting them in a shipping contanor and bringing them back for salvage, but as with all things Greek the airport were under the impression that the aircraft were worth the the prices they could see in the classified adverts in the flying mags.............. Or I was not greasing the right palms!

[Dave Gittins]

It may well have been one of them that I referred to as a wreck. Somwhere near and to the north of the ternmianl.

I don't look around Greek airfields too closely since some guys got busted for writing down the reg of the easyJet they arrived from the UK on.

[500 above]

A & C, I believe the owner of the Islander (the 5B- reg'd wreck) is the same chap who owns the shackletons, JP, Grob 115's and C172's on the fire dump at Paphos airport. I think he used to call his business Albatross Aviation. He also owns the Helio Courrier at Larnaka - I'd love to see that fly again.

[peterh337]

You mean these two

http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/santorini/wrecks.jpg

I took that pic in 2005.

[A and C]

That's the aircraft........

[peterh337]

One of the many things I love about Greece is that you can just leave an old battered car parked at the airport, so when you visit every few months, it is there and ready to go (if it's a VW :) ).

In N Europe these simple luxuries have been lost - mostly. One can still do it at certain airports in France.

One similarly sees old wrecked planes parked at some airports, but I think they are still billed to the owner. Or maybe they were impounded years ago and the airport cannot sell them (well, obviously they cannot even give them away, in that condition).

I remember landing at Granada LEGR a few years ago and most of the "resident fleet" had grass growing around the (sometimes flat) tyres. The only airworthy planes were mine, another N-reg, and a charter / sighteesing EC-reg Partenavia. But with the recent big landing/parking price hikes I can't see this going on for much longer.

The only Greek example of abandoned planes that I have seen were those two at Santorini, but then I have only ever been to "proper" airports over there... well apart from one private one.

[Dave Gittins]

Hmm the yellow and green one (is it an Islander ? from the viewing angle the wingtips look too swept back) is still in the same spot as at mid June 2012. Seven years on !