Olympics interception practice ?

[Pegpilot]

Just this minute seen an unidentified single engine piston jobby fly over my house in Northants at probably 2000 ft agl or slightly less accompanied very tightly in formation by a military jet. Anyone seen anything similar today ? Apologies if Notamed and bleedin obvious, but I've not been flying today. It would certainly wake me up were that guy to loom so large in MY perspex....

Cheers all

Peg

[NigelOnDraft]

Link (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76058) ???
NoD

[Pegpilot]

Thanks Nigel

I dashed out to the back garden without my glasses. Thought it was a Typhoon, but in my defence the key identifier for the Spit, given it was already past - the noise of the Merlin - was clearly drowned out by something with a bit more grunt. So either a nice jolly day out for the RAF, or they expect Al Quaeda to attack Stratford with Supermarine's finest. Whaddya reckon ?

Peg

[Sir George Cayley]

Olympic interceptions will primarily involve something green with a whirly top and a couple of things to get your attention. One of which is a big gun.:eek:

SGC

[A and C]

This was a typhoon & spitfire fly past at RAF High Wycombe.

[tmmorris]

a big gun

I think I'm right in saying the green egg-beaters can only carry a little gun. Not that that will be much consolation if they start using it on your spamcan...

Tim

[BigEndBob]

Notams said something going on at Brize, so probably on the way back to Coningsby?

[Sir Niall Dementia]

tmmorris;

A 7.62mm GPMG as carried by the helicopters will rip apart any light aircraft and the occupants, the gun has been around a long time and is an awesome weapon in the right hands. I once saw one demolish a wall in a demonstration! Made me glad it was on our side:\

SND

[UL730]

Posted this (http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/480329-looking-olympic-1-500k-airspace-chart-2.html) earlier.

Very spectacular to see f/j in high alpha and military rotary craft sprouting guns - intercepting GA (RAF Grob Tutor?)

Undoubtedly - GA is being treated as a potential threat with interception exercises and precautions being taken.

[The Heff]

Beware the RAF's secret and most deadly weapon: A sign that reads "Follow Me"!

I recently went to the Olympics Airspace briefing at the Royal Geographical Society, where there was actually a talk by both a Typhoon pilot and a Puma pilot with regards to interception procedures should you find yourself under a scrutinising eye. The key point that I took away from the talk was that should one inadvertently stray into restricted airspace, get on the radio to Atlas control (conveniently on the same frequency as Farnborough), apologise and turn away from London.

Any intercepting aircraft will be on the Atlas control frequency, so assuming the radio's working one can probably avoid being shot down in a ball of flames.

[A and C]

The big problem with a shoot down over the London area is what happens with the rounds that miss the target. Just think what 20 or so 7.62 rounds would do if they went down An East London high street ?

You could end up with 10-15 people killed just because a student pilot had got lost, I would think that a far better way of doing business would be one 0.5 round fired into the engine of a light aircraft.

The result would be the instant stoppage of the engine and a good chance that the aircraft would stay controllable enough to make a controled forced landing.

This would minimize the chance of the great unwashed of east London being on the sharp end of live rounds or bits of aircraft falling from the sky.

[abgd]

So we're left with 5 possibilities:

1) Shooting a terrorist down over a populated area
2) Shooting a civilian down over a populated area
3) Causing a civilian to make a forced landing in a populated area
4) Causing a terrorist to make a forced landing in a populated area (hmm... How would that turn out?)
5) A C130 with a big fishing net.

[ShyTorque]

Of course any self respecting terrorist would be trained to hold a slow, steady course on the starboard side of the big green helicopter so the sniper could take careful, aimed shots at his engine.

[blueandwhite]

Lots of what looked like interception practice by pairs of ugle flying machines:yuk: (beating the air into submission with an oversized propeller mounted above the cockpit :E) on a grob. That realsitcally flew a constant heading and hight untill intercepted. I guess the terrorists have been taught to fly straight and level.

All this excitment took place in yeoviltion AAIA a few weeks ago.

[A and C]

One of the reasons that the restricted area is so big is to give reaction time to allow the shoot down to happen before the aircraft gets to the most populated areas.

I can't help thinking that a light aircraft attack would be quite low on the terrorists list of effective attack plans but it is a possibility that the authority's cant dismiss.

As usual the members of this forum know better than the authorities but also as usual it is always very easy to be an armchair critic without responsabiltity for providing security in this area.

[abgd]

No, I don't think I know better than the authorities. However, shooting anybody down near London is going to be a lose-lose situation, and I did enjoy my mental image of a C130 with a net (later considered spear guns).

Given the amount of damage a stray P51 can cause in a crowd I'd say it's worth bothering about. Though the more I see the implications of the Olympics on ordinary Londoners, the more I can understand why so many of them didn't want it.

[GeeWhizz]

The funny thing about the bother and excitement of Olympic airspace infringements is that it wont be anyone here (knowing about it) that does it! I know first hand that it is expected 7-8 GA interceptions during each of the first two weeks of the games due to 'farmer Giles not knowing about the restricted zone'.

With all the hype of jets, helicopters, guns and rockets I'm sceptical that anyone will stray into places they shouldn't, and if they do they will apologise and make a reasonably quick exit. Also without knowing the contingency plans, I reckon it'd be possible to get RT approval through the zone if absolutely necessary ;)

[snapper1]

We in the gliding movement have been told to expect to see a slow moving green job getting up close and personal were we to be stupid enough to be in the wrong place. Just hope it dosen't have a 'Follow Me' sign as that will really put the offending pilot in the sh1t.:uhoh:

[Dg800]

That realsitcally flew a constant heading and hight untill intercepted. I guess the terrorists have been taught to fly straight and level.I don't think anybody in the RAF is really expecting a terrorist attack. What they are surely expecting is a bunch of PPL holders infringing on the prohibited zone either because of poor navigation or because they didn't bother to read the bloody NOTAMS. Those will indeed be flying straight and level at least until interception, afterwards they will be flying rather more erratically as their hands won't be as steady any more. The wet feeling in their pants will also serve as a major distraction, somewhat detracting from their otherwise impeccable flying skills. :E

Cheers,

DG800

[ChampChump]

Whilst there may be a remote UK pilot or two unaware of all this, I'd have thought the greater concern would be visiting continentals. It's daunting enough trying to cope with our various levels of aerodrome procedures and radio in a foreign language, let alone all the rest. I'm thinking of the groups of microlighters and so on, who arrive at Headcorn (for example); their enthusiasm is huge, but grasp of procedures can be as wafty as mine.

And let me add I'm not trying to denigrate any particular group of pilots or their planning. It's simply another complication.

[pabely]

IN FOCUS: Business aviation Olympic preparations accelerate (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/in-focus-business-aviation-olympic-preparations-accelerate-370599/)

Just forget any GA during the Olympics in London area. You will not be welcome!

[FREDAcheck]

Just forget any GA during the Olympics in London area. You will not be welcome!
Not just in the air. Traffic on the ground will be a nightmare, with ZIL lanes for Olympic traffic reducing road capacity, and public transport similarly constrained. Some hotels have been speculating that Olympic business might not make up for loss of normal business revenue, as everyone not involved in the Olympics is treating London as a Total Exclusion Zone for the summer.

We often have business meetings in London as it's often the easiest place for everyone all around the UK to get to, but over the summer we'll have meetings on Pluto in preference to travel to London.

[UV]

IN FOCUS: Business aviation Olympic preparations accelerate (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/in-focus-business-aviation-olympic-preparations-accelerate-370599/)

Says it all really...from the CAA in the above document...

The operators of these aircraft will need to book a slot to enter the wide area of restricted airspace that will apply from 14 July to 15 August, but the CAA says few have done so.



From Biggin Hill...
As an example of what London area business aircraft airports can expect, Biggin Hill airport business development manager Robert Walters said about 180 slots specific to Olympics attendance have been booked with Biggin as their destination, but he expects many more. This is over and above the normal 1,200-1,800 business movements that the airport gets anyway, with July always at the higher end of the range. Walters advised booking slots soon because "their numbers are finite".



So Biggin have approx 10% more than their usual movements. Or in other words, about 5.5 slots per day overall during the 33 days of the games..no wonder Walters is encouaging bookings!

At our Airfield ( 12 miles from the games) with a 6000 ft runway we have, wait for it, ZERO bookings!

[peterh337]

I am not actually suprised.

I am reliably informed that the vast majority of high net worth individuals are going to be absolutely nowhere near London for the whole duration of the games. And those who are desperate enough to watch some event can fly to London, in great comfort and with limo service at both ends, using 1st class airline travel.

The silly "Welcome to London [insert airport name**] Airport, your gateway to the London Olympics" stuff has been grossly overdone.

** Southend, Manston :E:E:E, Lydd :E:E:E, Biggin, Norwich... which ones did I leave out?

[MichaelJP59]

It does seem strange.

The operators of these aircraft will need to book a slot to enter the wide area of restricted airspace that will apply from 14 July to 15 August, but the CAA says few have done so.

Have they even considered the possibility that few have done so because the demand just isn't there? Was there a massive influx of private jets for the 2008 Olympics?

Anyway, hope it all goes off well, I'm sure everyone's looking forward to see who wins the 100 yards dash:)

[fulham fan]

Two points - the kind of people who book these flights tend not to do so until the last minute - so not expected that the numbers of bookings are currently low. Secondly the last world cup in South Africa had more business aviation movements than the Government is currently predicting for the London Olympics!

[piperarcher]

** Southend, Manston http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif, Lydd http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif, Biggin, Norwich... which ones did I leave out?

London Oxford Airport ;-)

This used to bother me, but then you fly to an airport with the word "Milan" in it's name, and you end up somewhere equal in similar distance that 'London SouthEnd' is to central London :sad:

[Nibbler]

I'm waiting for London Newcastle :}

Pleased to see the Scots seem to have more sense, or do they have more regional pride!?

On topic - I wonder what the likely affect of a 'serious' (although non-terrorist) incident would have on the future of GA?

[Rod1]

How fast is the helicopter the RAF are using? I thought it was 150kn, which will not catch some light aircraft.

Rod1

[pulse1]

Don't know about the RAF helicopter but the RN are using the Lynx which has a top speed of 200 mph - more than enough for most light aircraft, I would have thought.

[aluminium persuader]

Just watch out for wake turbulence - both Puma & Merlin are "small" :8

[FREDAcheck]

** Southend, Manston , Lydd , Biggin, Norwich... which ones did I leave out?
London Oxford Airport ;-)
Not forgetting LKI (London Knettishall International)

[abgd]

Just watch out for wake turbulence - both Puma & Merlin are "small" http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/nerd.gifI wonder if there's any class of aircraft capable of intercepting a powered paraglider without killing the pilot. Perhaps an autogyro. Or an airship.