How long to issue license?

[Sensible Flyer]

Does anyone know how long the CAA are taking to issue licenses at the moment? The website quotes 2 weeks but they've had my application longer than that already.
Called today and was told that it was with a Licensing Officer and no they had no idea how long it would take due to sheer volume of work. And no they don't know how long they are taking generally "It's just sheer volume of work".

I did notice they weren't too busy to bill my credit card for the fee less than a week after I posted the forms to them :hmm:.

There's also a recorded message on the phoneline sayng that EASA comes into effect on 8th April, but they won't be issuing any EASA licenses until July. Does that mean if they haven't pulled the preverbial out by then I may be waiting months?

There used to be a page on the CAA website detailing the oldest license applications being processed, which at least gave some idea, but that seems to have disappeared.

Frustrating!!

[RTN11]

They seem to take wednesdays off for EASA training, so that will add two more days to the 10 working days quoted.

Last thing I sent in about a month ago was a simple rating, took about 3 weeks total time, so I would imagine for a full licence issue it could be more like 4. They'll often tell you when your application will be looked at, and it will usually be 3 or 4 working days after that you actually see the paperwork, but patience is the name of the game really.

They always take the money first, my understanding is that's actually done by a different department to the person who will actually process your application, so really means nothing in terms of when your application will be processed. In theory if you keep calling to chase it up, that's just more time they're spending not doing the paperwork.

[Sensible Flyer]

I have no intention of chivvying them, it will take as long as it takes. To be honest I was concerned it had got lost in the post or something.

I just find it frustrating and a bit unsatisfactory that they can't even give an indication of how long it may take. Telling me they have a lot of work is not particularly useful. I half suspect they have a very good idea of the timescale, but would prefer not to say.

The real issue is that they have my passport, and the Mrs is talking about going away for a few days over Easter. (Yes I know I could have sent a certified copy, but I didn't :ugh:).

[The500man]

If you send it recorded or special delivery they used to call and ask if they could charge you to send it back the same way. That way you would know when they are about to return it.

Have you tried asking if they would send your passport back before the license? They must be able to photocopy it themselves and they've obviously opened the envelope if they've charged you already.

[Dave Gittins]

Sent my NPPL application to LAA on about 20th Feb and it was issued by CAA on around 5th March.

[Sensible Flyer]

They send everything back by courier unless you specifically ask them not to by ticking an "opt out" box on the form to save the princely sum of £6, so I'm not expecting a phone call.

Dave, sounds like the 2 week window worked for you. Don't the LAA do all the checking for the CAA to issue the NPPL though?

I'll give it to the middle of next week, then might ring and ask for my passport to be returned. Whilst they're at it they may as well pop my license in the envelope :).
I have to admit, I did expect better considering the £181 fee... And all this lovely flying weather going to waste!

[Dave Gittins]

Yeh they do and to be fair I first applied about 10th Feb and got it back on 15th with a request for the hours in my book to be validated by a QFI, which had to wait until I could find one the next weekend.

I didn't have to send my passport, only a photocopy with "this is a correct likeness" signed by a QFI.

[mad_jock]

Just read on another thread they have over 200 military pilots licenses to sort out before the military crossover reductions finish.

[MIKECR]

Its still 10 working days supposedly for processing of new licence applications. Reality however seems more like 3 weeks based on recent experiences of people I know. That was for CPL/ATPL applications. Staff training due EASA changeover presumably slows processing too. There was also a time that professional licence applications were prioritised over private ones, not sure if thats still the case.

If in doubt, phone PLD and they will at least be able to tell you when your application was received. Dont bother emailing though as all you'll get is an automated reply telling you they'll get back to you within 14 days!

[abgd]

When I got mine back, several weeks ago, it had taken about 3 weeks to process. I had called at about the 2 week mark, and somebody was able to tell me something along the lines of... Well, we received it on the 10th, and we're currently processing applications from the 28th... Which was a mechanism to guesstimate when it would be back.

[Sensible Flyer]

The lady I spoke to today wouldn't even give me generic information like that. Just kept repeating the "sheer volume of work" mantra. Thing is, they used to put that information on the website until very recently and it must have saved a lot of phone calls so it doesn't seem to make sense not to do so any longer.

Patience it is then. So long as I don't have to wait until July for an EASA license...

Mind you, if this is all that I have to worry about in my little world, there can't be a lot wrong!

Thanks folks.

[2high2fastagain]

I've had a few recent interactions with the CAA and they've been OK. Maybe a little clunky, but nothing to complain about.

A change of address came back in 3 days for my license but it took about 10 days for the aircraft. Their processes could be streamlined. For example, after you put in a change of address form for an aircraft, then they write and ask you for the certificate of registration to be sent back to them. Only after this will they issue a new one. Not sure why they needed the old certificate for the aircraft when they didn't need the old license from the pilot. I guess aircraft and personnel licensing are different departments. They're also inconsistent between allowing you to make applications on the web in some cases, but requiring other things to be sent by post. A bit of clean up of admin processes wouldn't do any harm here.

For the IMC it was nearly three weeks, though I did follow up on a tip from my CFI and rang them at Gatwick to confirm how much the courier return of license and logbook would cost before I sent it all off to them. I added the courier fee (about six quid) to my cheque and it all came back nicely. I even got some friendly advice where someone pointed out instrument hours I'd not put in the instrument column, so they'd clearly checked it all through properly.

All in all pretty satisfactory. I think there's some opportunity for removing some admin redundant steps to save them and us some time, but it was a damn sight easier than dealing with banks or insurance companies.

[abgd]

For me, the gripe re. the time delay was not having my passport* for an unpredictable length of time - I'd been told they normally took a week to 10 days. I needed mine after passing my PPL, so it was a month before I could send it in, then 3 weeks before it got back. By that time I had to be away again for a few weeks.

My local flying school wouldn't accept the temporary licence as they wanted to see my medical (granted I could have taken a copy, had I thought of it beforehand) before they would rent out an aircraft.

Long and the short, 3 months after doing my skills test, I haven't yet gone solo again. Whilst flights with an instructor are never wasted, especially when flying a new aircraft in a new area, what I really needed was a few hours of solo consolidation and I'm now considerably de-skilled relative to when I passed my PPL.

Now, this is as much due to my lack of foresight and somewhat busy lifestyle as to the CAA, but if they had been upfront about the delay I might have done some things differently.

*Yes, I do realise they'll take a birth certificate if you have one handy.

[Sensible Flyer]

Yes, not impressed with the customer service. They may as well have not bothered answering the phone. It just wouldn't be tolerated in the real world.

abgd, I thought you only needed to send a copy of your medical to the CAA? At least I'm sure that's what the form said and that's what I sent. (Why it needs to be sent at all is another question as they surely have it on record...) I'm in the same position as you though, flying club near my new home won't let me rent solo until they've seen the license, which is fair enough.

[abgd]

Maybe you only do need to send a copy of your medical in, but given that I was already sending in my original passport I just bunged it all in the envelope. Had I realised the delays were going to be quite so long, I'd have done things differently.

Strikes me there's not much point in having a temporary licence if nobody will accept it.

[Sensible Flyer]

To be fair I don't have a problem with the club not allowing solo hire until they've seen a license.

Let's consider they believed me when I said my license was on the way (and why should they, I could have lost a license due to medical reasons for all they no) without any logbook or paperwork. So I rent their PA28 and manage to damage it/myself/another aircraft/someone else/combination of the above.
Easily covered by insurance. But what then happens if my license application is subsequently rejected by the CAA? I guess technically I would have been flying without a license which would probably lead to a world of pain witht he insurance company!

But it is frustrating to have to wait for an indeterminate amount of time for someone to check a logbook and a few sheets of paper and print a license off!

[pummel]

I posted mine on March 5th, the CAA acknowledged receipt on March 6th and it finally got issued on the 26th March. Pretty disgusted with the service - I think its a real safety issue making someone wait effectively 4 weeks to fly when they have just qualified.

[madgav]

It's not good at the moment (even less so than usual). They've had my IMCr application since 15th March and as of yesterday they hadn't even looked at it. :mad:
I'd have thought that adding a rating would if anything be a simpler task than a full licence issue.....

[tom_the_pilot]

Thanks to all who have posted replies here; I had the same question and now feel like I've got a good idea about how long I can expect to wait now.

The CAA received my PPL(a) application today so I 'll let you know when my license arrives so you can get an idea of the current timings.

I agree, I think the EASA change-over is likely to throw a spanner in the works; the CFI at my local aero club seemed to think that the CAA wouldn't be issuing any new licenses between April 8th and mid-July 2012. Can anyone shed more light on the validity of this statement? I would hate to have to wait until July to take my fiancée/family/friends flying!

Thanks in advance.

[All-The-Nines]

My understanding is that despite passing a skills test, you don't have a license until it has been issued. So it's not a case of the flying club not 'letting' you fly solo until they've seen the license, the fact is you don't yet have a license. As you can imagine, there would be legal implications (think of aircraft insurance) if you went flying having passed your skills test for the CAA to then find out that something in your logbook doesn't add up and you fail to meet the criteria to hold that particular license.

I like the temporary license idea, I think that the issue though is all in the law (in this case, the ANO). The CAA are the regulator, they have no power to change what the law states - to change the law you'd have to start with an MP and move on from there.

Which, as the Civil Service also get Maundy Thursday off as an extra "privilege day", means that if you haven't had your licence tomorrow you might as well book some instructor time over Easter as the only way to get in the air ...

I don't think the CAA counts as civil service seeing as they don't receive any money from government and are self funded as such?

[mad_jock]

There is nothing stopping you being signed out for solo circuits or even a nav ex by an instructor until it turns up.

You have to stick to the same rules as before your test and application though. So no pax and you need signed out.

Some places will charge you dual rate for this service some may not.I never did because it kept the student current and it also encouraged them to come in and hire and not think of the school as money grabbing.

[All-The-Nines]

All the nines - not sure, the CAA is an independent corporation as you say, however, checking CAA jobs they refer to flexitime and Benenden healthcare which are both markers of civil service type jobs.

Just found this on their website. As I imagined, it means they're not civil service.

"The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), which is a public corporation, was established by Parliament in 1972 as an independent specialist aviation regulator and provider of air traffic services.

The UK Government requires that the CAA’s costs are met entirely from its charges on those whom it regulates. Unlike many other countries, there is no direct Government funding of the CAA’s work."

[abgd]

My understanding is that despite passing a skills test, you don't have a license until it has been issued. So it's not a case of the flying club not 'letting' you fly solo until they've seen the license, the fact is you don't yet have a license.

My briefing from my examiner was that I should be able to show the paper certificate he gave me to any flying school in order to hire an aircraft (I can't find it at present in order to check the official name of the document), but not take any passengers until the licence proper had come through.

The day after passing my test, I got signed out on the PA28 then did a short cross-country then lots of circuits. I told the school what I was going to do out of courtesy, but there was no question of me either being under the supervision of an instructor let alone paying for one. Then I went home and that was that for the next 3 months.

Perhaps one of the examiners here can clarify the situation?

[BillieBob]

ANO Article 50 - Requirement for an appropriate licence
Subject to the exceptions set out in articles 51 to 60, a person must not act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom without holding an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order.You do not 'hold' a licence until it is in your hands and signed by you and, therefore, you could not comply with Article 50. We then have to look at the exemptions and the only one that is relevant in this case is:ANO Article 52 - Exemption for solo flying training
(1) A person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant or renewal of a pilot's licence or the inclusion or variation of any rating in a pilot's licence within the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, without being the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, if the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied.

(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are that:
(a) the person is at least 16 years of age;
(b) the person is the holder of a valid medical certificate to the effect that the person is fit to act as pilot in command, issued by a person approved by the CAA;
(c) the person complies with any conditions subject to which that medical certificate was issued;
(d) no other person is carried in the aircraft;
(e) the aircraft is not flying for the purpose of commercial air transport, public transport or aerial work other than aerial work which consists of the giving of instruction in flying or the conducting of flying tests; and
(f) the person acts in accordance with instructions given by another person holding a pilot's licence granted under this Order or a JAA licence, in each case being a licence which includes a flight instructor rating, a flying instructor's rating or an assistant flying instructor's rating entitling that other person to give instruction in flying the type of aircraft being flown.Consequently, whether you realised it or not, you were flying in accordance with sub-paragraph (f)....or you were flying illegally

[abgd]

Ah well, a good job I didn't change my plans and go to Norway instead of Nairn, then.

[abgd]

A good point... But if you can't add the hours to your logbook until the CAA has read it and sent it back with your licence, then they will never know and so I don't see how it can possibly be said to be 'for the purposes of acquiring a license'.

I trust the senior posters when they say that you can't use it without supervision. But my misconception was that you had been granted a form of temporary license, not that you could temporarily fly without one.

For comparison, I just looked up the DVLA website, and they say you can drive on your pass certificate before getting your driving license back. They also say they aim to process them within 3 weeks. I can't find any relevant legislation in the Road Traffic Act, though I admit I haven't looked very hard.

[BillieBob]

I agree that the practice of flying solo, under the supervision of an FI, in the time between passing the PPL Skill Test and receiving the licence is built on shaky legal ground. The case is usually made that such flying is counted towards the experience requirements for a subsequent revalidation of the SEP Class Rating and, therefore, falls under the terms of Article 52, except that the Article refers specifically to the grant or renewal of a licence or rating and not to revalidation. Qualification for the issue of the licence is not relevant - if you were not already qualified, your application would not be with the CAA.

However, it is a well established practice with which the CAA seems content and unless/until it is tested in court, the true legality will not be known. As of this Sunday, of course, the ANO no longer has any effect in this area as it is over-ridden by the EU Basic Regulation, which is even more vague in its wordingArticle 7
1. ....
2. Except when under training, a person may only act as a pilot if he or she holds a licence and medical certificate appropriate to the operation to be performed.

Any flight under the supervision of an ATO can be said to be 'training', whether for a licence/rating/certificate or not.

[abgd]

The case is usually made that such flying is counted towards the experience requirements for a subsequent revalidation of the SEP Class Rating and, therefore, falls under the terms of Article 52, except that the Article refers specifically to the grant or renewal of a licence or rating and not to revalidation.

In addition to which, any hours I do this year wouldn't count for my SEP revalidation next year - the 12 hours have to be in the preceding 12 months for a PPL.

[Sensible Flyer]

tom_the_pilot:
We may be waiting a long time. I can't even find the CAA service charter (that stated they aimed for a 10 working day turnaround) on their website any more. Suggests that it is not likely to be processed in anything like that time period.
3 weeks and counting... Don't expect anything to happen next week with Easter, but going to need my passport soon after that, really hoping I don't have to make a nuisance of myself on the phone to get it back.

[liam548]

It's not good at the moment (even less so than usual). They've had my IMCr application since 15th March and as of yesterday they hadn't even looked at it. :mad:
I'd have thought that adding a rating would if anything be a simpler task than a full licence issue.....


they have had mine since the 20th march for IMC adding, they not looked at mine either. They confirmed that they had until July to add them, nothing from April 8th is relevant to the IMC addition. I asked them if I would have it back by July, she laughed saying "WE ARE BEHIND BUT NOT BY THAT MUCH".

I was being serious....

[madgav]

When I spoke to them last Friday they said they were processing applications received on 8th March, therefore my best guess is they'll get round to looking at mine very soon after the Easter hols.
I believe tomorrow is an official holiday in England & Wales so I don't think it will be processed by 8th now.....
Maybe later next week I'll get the phone call asking me for another £18 (or whatever) for the return of my log book :rolleyes:

[TurningFinals]

Has anyone had any experience of this recently? The LAA issued the recommendation to the CAA for my NPPL today, and i really hope to have it back by Easter to take a friend flying who is visiting them.

[Flyingmac]

Let's hope when you have it, you'll leave Turning and Finals out of any calls you might make in the circuit.:=

[Broadlands]

I tested a candidate for an NPPL GFT mid Feb and I heard they had it back today. I did spend a long time making sure their application was clear and complete before being sent.

I also needed an application on my own licence processed and that took 7 days so not too bad.

[TurningFinals]

Let's hope when you have it, you'll leave Turning and Finals out of any calls you might make in the circuit.:=

Thanks for your useful answer, Flyingmac. :rolleyes:

Cheers Broadlands, looks like it could well be back in time.

[Ridera]

Anyone had a PPL licence issued recently that could give me an idea how long it is taking the CAA to turn them round at the moment?

Thanks!

[Ridera]

In case anyone is interested, CAA took 18 working days to issue my PPL.

[mothminor]

nine weeks to swap my atpl for a lapl

[ak7274]

I have been trying to help a friend who lost his UK PPL licence a number of years ago and wishes to start flying gain.
Lost licence application sent in February.....E mail confirming all info required and should be sent out within 28 days. 15 weeks later after e mailing the licensing department, we find out they sent an email to an incorrect address demanding a Class 2 medical, and a copy every form they actually sent to him from their records to be sent back to them. They have no idea of their own rules.
Why demand a medical at all? never mind a class 2 when a self dec is sufficient. Why demand copies of paperwork that they sent to him? And worst of all............why tell him he can't fly an EASA aircraft on a UK PPL. He can until 08/04/2018 and watch this space for that to change too.
Apology? ........................nah, If indeed the rules come into play in April next year, he has lost almost 5 months, when he could have re qualified his PPL before looking at buying a permit Aircraft.
Yes I am angry. They are NOT fit for purpose.