QANTAS - WHERE TO NOW?

[QF94]

I am not of QANTAS but I have followed what is going on, (on this forum and the newspapers). Maybe its time to let Qf go, and infact assist in its demise.

Arnold, would you assist in the demise of your household or livelihood? I don't think you would and nor should the QF employees. I being a QF employee, just recently watched a few good men take a package after many years of loyal service to the company without so much as an acknowledgement for the service that made the airline what it was, not is.

Why would I say that I hear you say. Well, it is clear that this is what the current management want. Well, let them have it, and then embrace the new airline which takes its place, which is what happened when Annset failed, Virgin took its place and is growing.

I'm not interested in what the current management want, and they won't be given it on a silver platter so as to line their pockets. Embrace the new airline? Jetstar? Not on your life. You don't just let someone take a piece of Australian history and do with it as they wish and wipe it from the face of the earth. To do this would be un-Australian. The dozen parasites occupying the board are using the envious record of the last 92 years for their own personal benefit. Not one of them has a historical tie to the company, nor did they contribute to make QANTAS what it was, but only to what it is. A shadow of its former self.

We all saw what happened to Ansett, and who ran the company then. We are seeing an Ansett II with some of the same people it this time round. QANTAS is being white-anted from within and no one gives a stuff now as they didn't with Ansett then.

If Q failed I would imagine that Jetstar would go the same way, so Joyce an cronies would end up with nothing.

This is a misconception. Jetstar would be sold of and the proceeds pocketed by the board, particularly the overseas based Jetstar group of companies.

Would I realy like to see QANTAS fail, ofcourse not, but I really dont see any other alternative, Joyce and cronies are NOT going to resign, they will bleed the last cent out and then move on. Why not restrict the cents that they can get. At the end of the day, there are so many people that need moving around Oz and if Q aint there someone will have to fill the void. To continue to fight Joyce and cronies is to be a loser, but to push for failure of his (wet) dream is to beat the B*****D

The cronies on the QF board will bleed the company no matter what. Dixon still has a hand and is being handsomely paid for his link to the leasing company that leases QANTAS its aircraft. The rot is well and truly entrenched, but with a bit of luck, that rot can be removed. Fanciful thinking maybe, but it's not impossible.

Is QANTAS perfect? Far from it. QANTAS is QANTAS, but it is an ingrained part of Australian history that has served this country well. Not only as a carrier of passengers, but in war time, disaster relief and evacuation of Australians from around the world in times of civil unrest to bring them back home.

Arnold, your talk for a push for failure is a cop out. Why not just let yourself be beat up by a mugger. Let a paedophile have their way with your child. Let a rapist have your wife. Just as you wouldn't let the above happen, I would fight to keep QANTAS going. Not for the benefit of the board, but for the benefit of the integrity and dignity of the employees, its historical place in Australia and the work it provides both in and out of Australia.

If something is worth fighting for, you fight the fight. Win, lose or draw.

[UPPERLOBE]

@QF94...

Very well put. :D

[Wedcue]

So Jetstar's MFO is off to Qlink... Is this the first of the big moves for the 787 to be painted, named and operate as a Qantas flight, outside of Qantas mainline????

[bdcer]

Guys, how many years have we been posting on here about the problems with Qantas?? NOTHING will come out of this discussion. I'm not saying don't talk about it, but of you feel passionate enough (eg. QF94), DO something. Write to the paper, write to the big shareholders, write to the government, whatever. If it bugs you enough, get into it

[QF94]

bdcer,

Guys, how many years have we been posting on here about the problems with Qantas?? NOTHING will come out of this discussion. I'm not saying don't talk about it, but of you feel passionate enough (eg. QF94), DO something. Write to the paper, write to the big shareholders, write to the government, whatever. If it bugs you enough, get into it

I have written to all of the above. The only one to acknowledge and act on it was one Nick Xenophon. Unfortunately, the senate committee hearing was a joke and AJ basically ran the show and told them he had a plane to catch.

I alone can't do anything. QF employees alone can't do anything. It appears that not enough Australians care about it either. I'm not just talking about the plight of QANTAS, but the workforce in general. I've lost count of the number of jobs being lost in this country (this year alone) to employ outsiders offshore. Optus this morning has just announced it's laying off about 750 employees.

Where, when and how will this end? If people are unemployed, people won't be spending. If people aren't spending, corporates bottom line diminishes, leading to more layoffs.

We can't all go work in the mines as suggested by QF yesterday. Maybe Clifford has a transfer of business plan to the mining sector in mind. When that sector goes belly-up, watch out Australian economy that is heavily reliant on it.

[bdcer]

Yeh, I must admit I've tried everything within my power. It's just very frustrating

[hotnhigh]

The age old argument of cost.

Interesting piece by CAPA.
Qantas and Virgin Australia pursue different, but equally logical, strategies to grow domestically | CAPA (http://www.centreforaviation.com/analysis/qantas-and-virgin-australia-pursue-different-but-equally-logical-strategies-to-grow-domestically-72898)

Of note In the same period, Jetstar Group achieved a 9.4% margin. In Qantas' sample explaining its 65% strategy, Jetstar-only routes (red square) typically had a disproportionately lower return on revenue than routes (red circle) served by Qantas and Jetstar. (Curiously, there was no information on Qantas-only routes.) While Jetstar brings in less revenue than Qantas, its lower cost base can potentially see it post a disproportionately higher profit, which is why some services (such as those to and from the Gold Coast) have shifted from Qantas mainline to Jetstar. Market share is not reflective of profit or margin.

A real shame Alan and Leigh have been unable to answer the 60+ questions asked of them regarding jetstars cost base.

[QF94]

All this hype about profit margins, cost base and low cost carriers is a load of bunkum.

Virgin is a one-brand carrier with no LCC off-shoot and is doing very well in both tourist and business parts of the business. QANTAS has JQ which is gutting it. JQ is made to be the saviour of QANTAS, when in fact it is white-anting it from within. If JQ is taken out of the equation, QANTAS domestic will have all the JQ passengers. Who else are the punters going to fly with? Tiger? Virgin? QANTAS domestic (if you were to include JQ) would have a virtual monopoly on the domestic market. Virgin could not pick up the slack that quick and Tiger has no hope of gaining a real market share within the Australian domestic market as it currently stands.

From the beginning is was slated that JQ would not compete directly with a QF domestic flight. Guess what? They are. SYD-MEL, SYD-BNE, etc. Where they're not competing, QF have surrendered the sector to JQ and they are now doing the "tourist" destinations such as Coolangatta, Mackay, Maroochydore etc.

[TIMA9X]

Jetstar, The Not So Low Cost Carrier



Jetstar, The Not So Low Cost Carrier | Travel Trends (http://www.traveltrends.biz/ttn555-jetstar-the-not-so-low-cost-carrier/)
It's becoming clear that Jetstar, on many levels, can no longer be strictly considered a budget or low cost carrier on any other basis than its 'would you like fries with that?' fare structure.
Further confirmation came with news Jetstar has signed with TravelSky, the Chinese Global Distribution System. It already has GDS agreements with Amadeus, Galileo, Sabre, Abacus etc.
Low Cost Carriers aren't supposed to do that. GDS distribution costs extra. Nor should budget carriers, in theory at least, charge higher fares than the so-called legacy airlines. But Jetstar does.
For example, I've just bought a return fare to Bangkok through Jetabroad.com.au on Thai Airways for A$878*.
If I had booked the same itinerary on identical dates through Jetstar I would have paid $1152 for the basic fare, not including food, inflight entertainment or a comfort pack (blanket and pillow), for which you pay extra.
Sydney-Phuket on Jetstar was $985 plus, plus for the same dates.
Now many will say one example is not good enough, and they would be right.
But this is not the first, and certainly won't be the last, time Jetstar is pricing above competitors, especially on the long haul routes.
In SE Asia Jetstar is still seen by the punters as a poor mans version of Qantas. The Jetstar "brand power" in Asia is the the equivalent of Tiger Singapore, still considered a small segment of the over all market in the region.

Qantas Airways Group pax up 7.0% in Mar-2012, load factor up, year-to-date yield higher | CAPA (http://www.centreforaviation.com/news/qantas-airways-group-pax-up-70-in-mar-2012-load-factor-up-year-to-date-yield-higher-152842)

Group reports (01-May-2012) passenger numbers up 7.0% – traffic highlights for Mar-2012:

Passenger numbers: 4.0 million, +7.0% year-on-year;

Qantas (http://www.centreforaviation.com/profiles/airlines/qantas-airways-qf) Domestic: 1.5 million, +0.1%;
Qantas (http://www.centreforaviation.com/profiles/airlines/qantas-airways-qf) International: 511,000, +5.4%;
Jetstar (http://www.centreforaviation.com/profiles/airlines/jetstar-airways-jq) Domestic: 879,000, +10.6%;
Jetstar International: 400,000, +12.4%;
QantasLink (http://www.centreforaviation.com/profiles/airlines/qantas-airways-qf): 460,000, +8.3%;
Jetstar Asia (http://www.centreforaviation.com/profiles/airlines/jetstar-asia-3k): 297,000, +31.2%;


Passenger load factor: 79.8%, +3.3 ppts;

Qantas (http://www.centreforaviation.com/profiles/airlines/qantas-airways-qf) Domestic: 78.5%, +0.1 ppts;
Qantas (http://www.centreforaviation.com/profiles/airlines/qantas-airways-qf) International: 82.3%, +5.2 ppts;
Jetstar Domestic: 82.9%, +4.9 ppts;
Jetstar International: 74.4%, +3.1 ppts;
QantasLink (http://www.centreforaviation.com/profiles/airlines/qantas-airways-qf): 67%, +0.1 ppt;
Jetstar Asia: 80.8%, +1.9 ppts. [more – original PR (http://www.centreforaviation.com/members/direct-news/qantas-airways-limited-monthly-traffic-statistic-mar-2012-72749)]



Qantas International as a brand is more than holding its own considering all the damage AJ & Co have inflicted upon it over the past couple of years...

[The The]

While Jetstar brings in less revenue than Qantas, its lower cost base can potentially see it post a disproportionately higher profit, which is why some services (such as those to and from the Gold Coast) have shifted from Qantas mainline to Jetstar. Market share is not reflective of profit or margin.

Well the last annual report tells a different story:

My post from last year:

If QF international lost $200m, the EBIT for QF Domestic and Qlink would be $428m.

Total QF Domestic (including Qlink) passengers is 21,930,000. So each passenger earns QF $19.50 profit.

Total Jetstar passengers is 15,315,000, with an EBIT of $169m So each passenger earns Jetstar $11.03 profit.

When you look at the ASK's, QF Domestic makes a profit of $0.012 per ASK. Jetstar makes $0.0049 per ASK.

So QF Domestic is 2.5 times more profitable than Jetstar per ASK and makes 77% more profit per passenger.

Jetstar Asia made $A14.25m. That gives it a profit of $5.28 per passenger or $0.0024 per ASK. QF domestic is thus about 3.7 times more profitable per passenger or 5 times more profitable per ASK than J* Asia.

Jetstar Pacific is obviously such a complete basket case, they provide 2 lines on it with not a single financial detail.

If you take Jetstar Asia out of the Jetstar numbers, then the Jetstar profit per pax increases slightly to $12.27 and the ASK profit rises to $0.0054. Still a long way off QF domestic!!!

All these numbers are based on the financials provided by QF in the annual results including the $200m international losses, I have made NO assumptions, just broken down the numbers. Even if we did say QF had exaggerated the international losses and say said that QF international lost only $50m and so QF domestic made $278m, the QF domestic business still far outperforms the Jetstar business in profit per ASK and profit per passenger.

[Captain Gidday]

QF94 said:
QANTAS has JQ which is gutting it. JQ is made to be the saviour of QANTAS, when in fact it is white-anting it from within.

Which is why British Airways quickly offloaded their LCC 'Go' when their management realised how a LCC interacts adversely with the 'mother ship'.
Which is also why BA offloaded their Qantas stake a few years ago when they saw the same pattern emerging, but they had insufficient numbers or influence on the Qantas board to do anything about it.
You can just hear them laughing back in Waterside; 'Well we tried to tell those stupid Aussie 'Bruces' how it would end, but they knew better!'.

[QF94]

@The The

All these numbers are based on the financials provided by QF in the annual results including the $200m international losses, I have made NO assumptions, just broken down the numbers. Even if we did say QF had exaggerated the international losses and say said that QF international lost only $50m and so QF domestic made $278m, the QF domestic business still far outperforms the Jetstar business in profit per ASK and profit per passenger.

The $200m International "losses" include the hissy fit shut down of mainstream QANTAS for two days last October by AJ, the continuous problems with A380 aircraft and dwindling international sectors. I've said this on other posts, but when QANTAS International only flies to about 21 destinations, is it any wonder that only 18/100 choose to fly QANTAS? They have no choice. Out of the destinations we fly to:

4 are to the US (HNL, LAX, DFW & JFK),
1 to South America (Santiago),
1 to South Africa (JNB)
2 to Europe (LHR and FRA),
3 to NZ (WLG, CHC, and AKL with the occasional seasonal to Queenstown) 3 to SE Asia (SIN, BKK and HKG), of which the only through-fare to London is via SIN,
1 flight to mainland China and
1 to Japan
1 to MNL

We don't fly to Canada, Fiji, or much of China, or much of Europe and nothing in the Middle East, or even Malaysia.

The QF board figures show QANTAS can't compete, but yet we manage to make more profit than SIA last year, which included our worldwide shutdown for a couple of days and our International loads are north of 80%.

Hopefully, the next 747 we send to Victorville for retirement, we can have 12 spare spaces for the board to be cut up with it.

End of this rant, but more to follow.

[TIMA9X]

You can just hear them laughing back in Speedbird House; 'Well we tried to tell those stupid Aussie 'Bruces' how it would end, but they knew better!'. Spot on CG and they did try to tell Dixon but he obviously had other plans... leasing? :*



BA puts its budget airline Go up for sale - Business News - Business - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/ba-puts-its-budget-airline-go-up-for-sale-623399.html)
Go, set up in 1998 with a £25m investment from BA, flies to 21 destinations from its base at Stansted. Yesterday BA said Go had made a profit every month so far this year and was on track to break even in 2001. Lord Marshall, BA's chairman, said: "We do not feel that Go is a part of the future strategy of BA, particularly with short-haul operations. So it is sensible for BA and Go to go their separate ways."

Asked if the no-frills airline had been a mistake, he said: "I don't think it was a mistake to launch it. We've gained a lot of knowledge and experience." But he admitted Go had cannibalised customers from BA as it flies many of the same routes.
Analysts supported the decision which, together with better-than-expected half-year profits, pushed BA shares 6 per cent higher to 351p. Ian Wilde, airline analyst at SG Securities, said: "They've been clear right from the start that it was a bit of an experiment."
BA yesterday reported second-quarter profits of £200m compared with £40m a year ago, despite huge fuel price rises. Rod Eddington, who took over as chief executive in May, warned of further restructuring to come in operations. Schedule changes next summer, combined with the introduction of more, smaller new aircraft, will see year-on-year capacity cut by 10 per cent.
Plans for a wholesale shake-up of BA's Gatwick operation will be announced in the next few weeks. These could include several hundred job losses as duplication with Heathrow is cut. Mr Eddington said he planned to integrate BA's European businesses, now split into 10 groups and franchises. The programme to drop routes that do not make money will continue.
BA's second-quarter results, which follow the collapse of its merger talks with KLM in September, showed that its strategy of dropping uneconomic routes and passengers is bearing fruit. Yields, a measure of how much an airline makes on each passenger, rose 8.7 per cent in the quarter, BA's biggest ever year-on-year improvement. Innovations such as beds in business class helped premium traffic rise 7.7 per cent.
Costs were steady despite a £61m rise in fuel costs. The dividend was held at 5.1p per share.
At least BA still could still come up with a dividend at the time..

HISTORIC BATTLE
Management Today (http://www.aim.com.au/DisplayStory.asp?ID=818)
Joyce is fighting a battle over the future of the airline. Ultimately, it is about a fundamental philosophical divide between staff and management. The role of management is to act primarily in the interests of shareholders while staff (including, in the case of Qantas, highly paid pilots and engineers) want job security, higher incomes and better working conditions.
Employees would prefer Qantas remain overwhelmingly a domestic airline with a modest international operation flying out of Australia. Joyce has much more ambitious plans. He wants to establish Qantas as a major player in the Asia-Pacific, the world's fastest growing aviation market. But, as he and Qantas employees know, that will require a further cut in the cost base of the airline that eventually will spill over to the Australian operations.
Joyce may be a rocket scientist (a science graduate specialising in mathematics and physics) but the future is not that hard to predict. Pan Am was the world's largest carrier for 44 years until its collapse in 1991. Ansett Australia was a key Australian domestic airline for 66 years until it disappeared in 2001.
In 2010, United Airlines and Continental merged in the United States. This followed the merger of Delta and Northwest in 2008. In 2011, British Airways responded to growing global competition by merging with Spanish carrier Iberia to form IAG. Air France and KLM have merged, so too Chile's LAN and Brazil's TAM airlines.
On the flip side, a decade ago who had heard of airlines such as Emirates, Etihad, Singapore Airline's cut-price airline Scoot, AirAsia X and China Southern Airlines, Asia's largest airline which is starting to make inroads into Australia. As one senior airline executive told Mt, Qantas is having its "lunch cut" on the international routes. The international Qantas business, once a profit driver, is now losing money. The reasons are complex and include its inability to compete on a cost-effective basis with Asian and Middle-East carriers, the high Australian dollar (making Australia a less popular destination) and the capacity of international airlines to offer cut-price airfares in Australia because they are able to link up through significant international hubs. The problem for Qantas is Australia (and New Zealand) is a spoke, not a hub. It is literally the end of the line.
The real strength of Qantas has been its domestic market where, for the past decade, it has been able to generate large profits supported by the success of its frequent flyer program. It has also benefited from the success of cut-price Jetstar, founded by Joyce in 2003 and which is highly successful here and overseas.
Aviation consultant Stephen Pearse, former head of United Airlines in Australia and later vice president of Emirates in this country, is convinced Qantas will survive even if it does not expand into Asia.
"It has a strong position in Australia and a powerful domestic franchise," he says.
Pearse said Qantas was still well-placed to serve the direct non-stop traffic out of Australia although it had lost about half its share of international traffic in a very competitive market.BScMEng, MSIA

Independent Non-Executive Director

http://www.qantas.com.au/img/150x150/about-qantas/director.jpg
William Meaney was appointed to the Qantas Board in February 2012.
Mr Meaney has extensive international experience in advisory and executive roles. Mr Meaney is a Director of moksha8 Pharmaceuticals, Inc and until recently, Mr Meaney served as Chief Executive Officer of The Zuellig Group. He is also a Member of the Asia Business Council and serves as a Trustee of both Carnegie Mellon University and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.
Mr Meaney has had broad airline experience having been the Managing Director and Chief Commercial Officer of Swiss International Airlines and Executive Vice President of South African Airways responsible for sales, alliances and network management.
Prior to these roles, Mr Meaney spent 11 years providing strategic advisory services at Genhro Management Consultancy, as the Founder and Managing Director, and as a Principal with Strategic Planning Associates.
Age: 52
A lot of people believe Meaney made a complete mess of Swiss International and the reason why he departed from the airline quickly... So what do Clifford & board do in 2012, invite him to join the list of famous failed airline brand managers... (Ansett?) :ugh:

It appears the institutional investors in Australia still can't see through it... the mind boggles.

[The The]

World Business Briefing | Europe: Switzerland: Airline Scales Back
By Alison Langley (NYT)
Published: May 03, 2003

Acknowledging that its initial strategy of focusing on first-class and business-class travelers failed, Swiss International Air said that it would drop more routes, lay off more workers and set up a new discount short-haul subsidiary. Swiss International, cobbled together late in 2001 by the Swiss business establishment to replace the bankrupt Swissair, is losing 40 million Swiss francs a month and has been told by both its lenders and the Swiss government not to expect any fresh aid. William L. Meaney, the airline's chief financial officer, said that the airline had to direct its efforts ''not to what we think the customer wants, but what the market is telling us the customer is willing to pay for.'' Alison Langley (NYT)

Yes Mr Meaney has the experience QF are looking for. At least the Swiss saw the light quickly (he lasted about 9mths) and dumped him.

[TIMA9X]

New Roy Morgan Air Travel Report Keeping an Eye on the Sky

NewsMaker - New Roy Morgan Air Travel Report Keeping an Eye on the Sky (http://www.newsmaker.com.au/news/16628)

Thursday, May 03, 2012 - Roy Morgan Research (http://www.roymorgan.com)

Roy Morgan Research has released a new report focusing on the domestic and international air travel of Australians aged 14+. The Roy Morgan Air Travel Report looks at the incidence and frequency of Australians’ air travel, the differences between business and leisure travel, and branded airline information relating to usage and loyalty.



According to the new Air Travel report, Qantas is the most popular international airline for overseas holidays.

In the twelve months to December 2011, 15% of Australians flew Qantas International on their last overseas holidays, followed by Singapore Airlines (13%), Emirates (11%), Jetstar International (9%) and AirAsia X (8%).


International Airlines Used for Last Overseas Holiday

http://www.roymorganonlinestore.com/Images/News/article-1667---image-1-%28HS%29.aspx?width=460&height=281 (http://www.roymorganonlinestore.com/Images/News/article-1667---image-1-%28HS%29.aspx)
Source: Roy Morgan Single Source, January – December 2011, Total used international airline on last holiday, sample n=1,677.


Jane Ianniello, Roy Morgan Research International Director of Tourism, Travel & Leisure, says:

“Although Qantas is the most popular international airline it has lost share over the past two years to its key competitors such as Singapore Airlines and Emirates. Customers of Singapore Airlines have consistently high satisfaction levels, and Emirates has steadily increased its satisfaction ratings to now be ahead of Qantas International.

“The challenge for Qantas and other major international airlines will be to understand, and therefore satisfy, their customers better.In support of my previous post, More proof the Qantas brand is very resilient considering the management favouring the J* product funded by you know who....

[stubby jumbo]

One would hope the assorted QF Board/Directors would be choking on their caviar canape's and Bollinger in the Board Room on QCA/9 tonight when they saw the result of the High Court decision on Hardie's-who lied to their shareholders over the state of play.... way back in 2002 when they were trying to dodge the litigation 747 rumbling down the payout runway.

A scandalous litany of lies,deceit and treachery of the highest order.

Enough said. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

JOIN THE:mad::mad::mad:'n dots.

[Sunfish]

Qantas doesn't have "a strong franchise" with its customers. It has a strong franchise on the minds of politicians.

Remember the Australian car industry in the 1970's - where all you could by was a Ford or a Holden because everything else that was any good was ridiculously expensive?

I want open skies. That is the only way you will get rid of Joyce and co. The airline is profitable because we are stuck at the arse end of the world and nobody elses seems interested in taking Qantas on except Branson.

To put that another way, the reason Qantas is more profitable than other airlines is because it has us by the short and curlies, not because it offers a superior product.

[Captain Gidday]

How much more open can Australian skies be?
Internationally, every man and his dog can apply for virtually unlimited capacity and get it. Can't see the difference between what we have now and open skies.
Domestically, even foreign owned airlines can start up. If they ask nicely, some State Government will even subsidise their headquarters. Could you see an Australian owned airline being able to start up in North America or Europe?
When you sit down and think about it the Qantas domestic product still isn't too damned bad, especially for frequently flying business people with no baggage. Generally on time, dependable, fast in and out of terminals, nice frills like optional valet parking, meals in business class on an 85 minute sector etc. It may not be the high water mark for domestic airline service, but it's a mile ahead of anything you'll find these days in North America or Europe.
So it's not the product that's the problem. The product can, and is, competing on its own terms, despite the obstacles put in its path. It's the management who can't see the value of what they have and are 'Absolutely' committed to destroying that product by deliberate act mostly and neglect sometimes that is the problem. White-anting the airline for ideological and possibly narcissistic reasons.

[TIMA9X]

It's the management who can't see the value of what they have and are 'Absolutely' committed to destroying that product by deliberate act mostly and neglect sometimes that is the problem. White-anting the airline for ideological and possibly narcissistic reasons. More evidence of the "clinical bean counters" shifting revenue around to fund the J* Airbus acquisition is my guess... it is my view, by the time we get to 2018/19 these A380s will come factory painted in the orange cancer colours and the Qantas brand will be a domestic outfit only.. vale Q international. This fraud of a board have got to go.... it is all about "ideological narcissistic" styled management, that's for sure. I don't know how Gareth Evans the CFO sleeps at night... since he got the gig it appears the plans to destroy the Qantas brand have accelerated, a "compliant quiet achiever" following destructive orders me thinks...

QANTAS has elected for stability in its senior management ranks after appointing Gareth Evans, an 11-year veteran of the airline, as its chief financial officer.
Mr Evans has been the favourite for the role since Qantas announced in March the sudden departure of its chief financial officer, Colin Storrie, for ''personal and health reasons'' after 18 months in the job. Mr Evans has been acting in the role.
The head of Qantas's loyalty program, Simon Hickey, had been tipped as the other leading candidate.

Read more: Evans wins chief finance position at Qantas (http://www.smh.com.au/business/evans-wins-chief-finance-position-at-qantas-20100616-ygeo.html#ixzz1tqu52ERL)



Qantas delays A380 deliveries to cut spending by $400m


Read more: Qantas delays A380 deliveries to cut spending by $400m (http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-delays-a380-deliveries-to-cut-spending-by-400m-20120504-1y2ln.html#ixzz1tqpkawlW)



http://images.smh.com.au/2011/11/11/2766190/art-Qantas-A380-Sydney-420x0.jpg Qantas will postpone A380 deliveries to cut capital outlays. Photo: Getty Images

Qantas will cut spending by a further $400 million next financial year by delaying delivery of new A380 aircraft.
A review of the airline's maintenance operations had concluded, but a decision would not be announced until mid-May, Qantas said in a statement today.
The reduction cuts the carrier's planned expenditure on equipment in 2012-13 to $1.9 billion.
Advertisement: Story continues below
Qantas was to receive two new super jumbo A380s in early 2013, but will now take delivery of the aircraft in the 2016/17 financial year.
Another six A380s will be delivered to Qantas from 2018/19.
The spending reductions follow a previously announced $500 million worth of cuts, which included staff cuts in its catering, cabin crew, pilots, engineering and ground operations.
Qantas has also been reviewing its maintenance operations to identify cost savings, which is likely to result in job losses.
Chief executive Alan Joyce has previously said keeping three maintenance sites - Melbourne, Avalon and Brisbane - was not viable

[Capt Kremin]

Isn't this just a recycling of the August announcement last year?

[DirectAnywhere]

Don't think so. That announcement was about the delay of the last 6 ( I think it was 6). QF were still supposed to get another two to add to the current 12. Those two have now been delayed.

A revised NTFS has already been issued canceling the 8 380 s/o slots that were advertised a few weeks ago and that speaks volumes. There are now a total of 8 commands and 8 FO slots in Per for the next year. Happy days.

[QF94]

When international routes are being cut, no need for additional aircraft, particularly the A380 as they can't be used at all airports just yet.

[Nigel747]

QF94, you make today's announcement sound almost upbeat.
I feel that this is disastrous for the already oversubscribed numbers
On the 380. Also, it doesn't say too much for the long term prospects
Of the 380 fleet. If they are as good as the company claims, wouldn't
You be rushing them in instead of delaying(perhaps cancelling) them.
Our current 12 may well be the final number. Does that even constitute
A fleet? Barely

[crosscutter]

I heard they can't cancel them...penalty for all those freebie 330's comes back to roost perhaps

[theheadmaster]

Delayed to post selloff date perhaps?

[QF94]

@Nigel747

QF94, you make today's announcement sound almost upbeat.
I feel that this is disastrous for the already oversubscribed numbers
On the 380. Also, it doesn't say too much for the long term prospects
Of the 380 fleet. If they are as good as the company claims, wouldn't
You be rushing them in instead of delaying(perhaps cancelling) them.
Our current 12 may well be the final number. Does that even constitute
A fleet? Barely

I don't know how that sounds upbeat. The reality is that you don't need so many aircraft when international routes are being wiped from under us. The 747's are clearly the best money-spinner we have with a much better break-even point than the 380's. We will be losing another two 747's in the near future as part of the "accelerated retirement programme", and flying inefficient 380's in their place. The management will try to have you believe that the 380 is the best aircraft ever invented. Nothing could be further from the truth. They require much more manpower per turnaround than a 747, and only carry about 40 or so more passengers than a 747, but require a lot more fuel for the privelage.

As for the sell-off, I'd be watching this space. When QANTAS is made to look as bad as the current federal government, the share price will fall and you can bet Dixon and Singleton will be in there to buy it up and finish it off. Remember what Dick Smith said last year. If he had QANTAS, he would have sold it years ago.

The 380 was never meant to make QANTAS turn around and become more profitable. If the management were true to growing QANTAS (I know this has been beaten to death) we would have had 777's and the 747-800 aircraft for international operations.

If it wasn't for the staff within QANTAS to make the airline run, QANTAS would have disappeared long ago. Somehow the staff (at all levels) seem to be able to make a strawberry jam sandwich out of a pile of crap. It doesn't taste the best, but the company is till a chosen airline to fly with.

[Capt Kremin]

From a glass-half-full perspective... one rumour doing the rounds is that the Virgin push and the denouement of Red Q has convinced management of the need to have the 787 in mainline ASAP.

Would make sense if it is true. What better way to regain lustre domestically than to put the brand new aircraft on the premium service.

AIPA has been quiet lately. Maybe there is something in this one.

[schlong hauler]

If you believe the rumours Buchanan doesn't want it and the business model for it is very weak. Any J* pilots started their training for the introduction yet? You would expect some sort of planning pending its arrival yet I am not aware of any. Make sense for Qf domestic under the short haul contract as per the intergration document.

[Keg]

Yes, but where will they park it domestically in SYD, MEL and BNE? Even at PER it would constrain the gates. DRW? ADL? All get regular or semi regular 767 services that would (hopefully) be replaced by the 787.

Schlong, is the 787 a 'new type' or a 'replacement aircraft' for the 767? It could get very interesting.

[QF94]

@Keg

Schlong, is the 787 a 'new type' or a 'replacement aircraft' for the 767? It could get very interesting.

It's both, but not for the 767, but for the JQ 330's that we will get back once the 787's start entering JQ service. We'll be left with the old clangers that have had their rings flown off them.

[Keg]

Of course. Yet again the domestic network will be left with an ageing fleet due for lots of heavy maintenance whilst the LCC gets all the shiny new stuff. Just another thing to show that this mob isn't serious about running a premium carrier.

[Captain Gidday]

the domestic network will be left with an ageing fleet due for lots of heavy maintenance
Which will now be done where?

[Wedcue]

There will be Qantas painted 787's.

It will be operated by the same mob who operate Qantas painted 738's.

They are cheaper and AIPA failed to win the case in court to stop Qantas from operating in this way. 787's will never be flown by a mainline pilot (unless on LWOP).

[Cargo744]

It's called business... Something beyond your recognition

[TIMA9X]

Investors have expressed reservations about Qantas delaying the delivery of the A380s, saying it was pursuing short-term gains at the expense of long-term growth.
Will Seddon, a portfolio manager at White Funds Management, said Qantas was delaying efficiencies brought by new A380s, which would be critical to turning around its loss-making international business, in order to defend itself in the domestic market from Virgin's advances.
''It seems to be illogical and not great for investors. They shouldn't be taking the bait this easily. The key metric is not market share, the key metric is profitability,'' he said. ''As an investor, I would be concerned now that there is a market-share war going on, which is ultimately going to translate into a price war.''

Read more: Airlines battle for the pointy end (http://www.smh.com.au/business/airlines-battle-for-the-pointy-end-20120504-1y45d.html#ixzz1tudhiYz7)

It appears the mood is changing with some investor analysts, certainly not as positive as this time last year.. The market has shifted on the domestic front to become an interesting battle. As I see it, Virgin is a much happier airline than Qantas, JB has done a wonderful job delivering positive vibes for the product. It is clear to me the Q management have no idea how to motivate employees.

Basically this current lot of managers are out of their depth, have no feeling for the pride Qantas employees have in the company, and have no feel for the way the Company used to be perceived by the wider aviation community, a recipe for loss of market share as airlines have always been a people business. This new breed of "clinical bean counting" managers are are slowly but surely choking the life out of the business promoting its traditional customers to look elsewhere..

This will only be reversed if the management comes to its senses by redirecting the B787 back into mainline. As I said previously on this thread, Jetstar has very little brand power with the punters in Asia compared to the Qantas brand.

AJ & BB keep telling us otherwise which is a downright blatant lie or wishful thinking at best.

[theheadmaster]

I find it interesting that Qantas is feeling threatened by Virgin. They feel they need to do something to protect market share. That would assume that Virgin is gaining market share. So, you would have to also assume that by engaging its workforce, developing service, investing in product and moving away from low cost to premium product, they are increasing market share. It is not a long bow to draw to then assume that doing the opposite will have the opposite outcome.

Qantas has decided to compete by disengaging staff, reduce costs, put nothing in to the premium product and develop the low cost side of the business. Absolutely brilliant. :ugh:

[maggotdriver]

Rumour has it that virgin may be getting a significant number of 330s to do regional flying. Unlike Joyce who has never used his scientific training and run a simple test between his two airlines, think Hawaii. I'm sure JB would love to send his uncomplicated model there and put the cat amongst the pigeons! Better product than both and rip the guts out of their two brand model with one fell swoop. He must be sad that's he's doing this to QANTAS in a strange sort of way....:eek:

[slamer.]

Qantas delays A380s to save $400m

Friday May 4, 2012


http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201218/A380_QantasPE_460x230.jpg (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10803519#)

Qantas is delaying delivery of two new Airbus A380 aircraft as it tries to save $400m.

Qantas will cut spending by a further $A400 million next financial year by delaying delivery of new A380 aircraft.
A review of the airline's maintenance operations had concluded, but a decision would not be announced until mid-May,
Qantas said in a statement released today.Qantas was to receive two new super jumbo A380s in early 2013, but will now take delivery of the aircraft in the 2016/17 financial year.
Another six A380s will be delivered to Qantas from 2018/19.
The changes will cut Qantas' capital expenditure by $400 million in 2012/13 to $1.9 billion.
The spending reductions follow a previously announced $500 million worth of cuts, which included staff cuts in its catering, cabin crew, pilots, engineering and ground operations.
Qantas has also been reviewing its maintenance operations to identify cost savings, which is likely to result in job losses.
Chief executive Alan Joyce has previously said keeping three maintenance sites - Melbourne, Avalon and Brisbane - was not viable.
Qantas also announced a big increase in capacity in its domestic business, as it fights to maintain at least 65 per cent market share.
"Our goal in the domestic market remains simple and consistent - we intend to retain the market share that enables us to maximise profit," Joyce said.
Qantas will step up competition against Virgin Australia by adding extra services during peak times on the busiest east coast business routes between Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.
It will also bring back Boeing 747s on its Sydney and Perth route, plus more Airbus A330s the Melbourne and Perth route.
That will increase the capacity on those east coast and west coast routes.
Jetstar will also increase its capacity, while QantasLink will increase capacity across Queensland.
More detail about new routes and timing will be announced at a later date, Qantas said.

[hotnhigh]

Did someone mention leadership and trust?
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/virgin-boss-credits-team-effort-for-rapid-pace-of-change/story-e6frg8zx-1226347258029)

[Going Boeing]

It will also bring back Boeing 747s on its Sydney and Perth route, plus more Airbus A330s the Melbourne and Perth route.

With so many B747 airframes going to the Victorville parking lot this year, I wonder where the capacity for the Perth returns is coming from. Do we have to can yet another international route to get this capacity?

I just watched a show on Nat Geo about the construction of the B747-8I and I'm more convinced than ever that it is a far superior aircraft (for QF routes) than the A380. The best thing for Qantas to do now is to trade the A380's in on a fleet of B747-8's (supported by a fleet of B777-300ER's). It would make Qantas far more competitive and would give the aircraft market a big shake-up.

[UPPERLOBE]

@Going Boeing...

Heard a rumour that they'll be trading the A380's in on A320 Neo's for those MEL - PER & ADL - PER sectors.

[ampclamp]

I seriously doubt that rumour upperlobe. It would mean losing face over the "flagship" and these people would have to admit making an error. Something they will never acknowledge.

Going boeing your idea is great except it is based on the assumption they want Qantas to be competitive on the OS routes.

[Stalins ugly Brother]

Wedcue said;
There will be Qantas painted 787's.

It will be operated by the same mob who operate Qantas painted 738's.

They are cheaper and AIPA failed to win the case in court to stop Qantas from operating in this way. 787's will never be flown by a mainline pilot (unless on LWOP).

INCORRECT. :=

The integration agreement will be scrapped in June as part of the arbitration which will allow the 787s to be operated both Internationally and Domestically under the short haul award by the surplus Mainline pilots.

[Tuner 2]

How does FWA "scrap" an agreement that is not being determined???

[Going Boeing]

which will allow the 787s to be operated both Internationally and Domestically under the short haul award by the surplus Mainline pilots.

Stalin, it appears that you think the SH award is superior to the LH award. There is one glaring problem with it - under the CAO48 Exemption that it operates under, the maximium TOD is 13 hours (irrespective of how many additional pilots are included in the crew). This would be very restrictive on an aircraft that is designed to have an 8000NM range (8500NM for the B787-9).

[Stalins ugly Brother]

Stalin, it appears that you think the SH award is superior to the LH award.

No I don't.

under the CAO48 Exemption that it operates under, the maximium TOD is 13 hours (irrespective of how many additional pilots are included in the crew). This would be very restrictive on an aircraft that is designed to have an 8000NM range (8500NM for the B787-9).

Why would you require the exemption when it clearly states the requirements for 3+ crew under CAO 48? The exemption applies to two man crew.

How does FWA "scrap" an agreement that is not being determined???

To clarify I should have said the removal of reference to the Integration award within the LHA. Read into what is being proposed and what has been removed from EBA7 rollover.

My thoughts. The company is happy for the 4 engine aircraft to remain on the LHA (or what is left of it after June). Then the A330 (earmarked for domestic ops in the future) ,787 (new type but earmarked int & dom ops) and 737 to be operated under the SHA (with applicable exemptions) to allow (perceived) flexibility to operate between the longhaul and shorthaul flying.
Management have a perception that the SHA is very efficient and comparative to our competitors, which is probably true.
Basically I think they only want to pay us stick hours, not MDC. As I said, JMHO.

[theheadmaster]

Yep, the biggest, gaping, festering hole in that short haul award is no minimum daily credit.

[The The]

Under 48E, augmented crew can go to 22hrs TOD with a bunk, 16hrs with a screened seat from cabin and 14hrs with a seat in the cabin.

[QFdude]

The Headmaster, Have you or are you working under the SHA??

[Going Boeing]

Under 48E, augmented crew can go to 22hrs TOD with a bunk, 16hrs with a screened seat from cabin and 14hrs with a seat in the cabin.

Have the rules changed for the SH Award (& the CAO48 exemption that they work under) as when the A330 was originally operating under the SH award, an A330 operating NRT-PER diverted to Learmonth for fuel (due PER Wx) and the crew were unable to then operate the next sector to PER due to exceeding 13 hours TOD despite having a 3 pilot crew? Under the LH award, they would have been able to continue.

[theheadmaster]

Yes, that pleasure I am familiar with ;)

[The The]

The SH award does not contain the full CAO 48E limits. TOD limits for augmented crew are not contained in the award.

TOD limits in the award for 2 pilot ops are generally more restrictive than the CAO 48E.

The complete CAO 48E is contained in the FAM and has the limits for augmented crew (22hrs etc)

The way I understand it is, if there are no specific limitations within the award (e.g. augmented crew), then the CAO48E (as per the FAM) applies.

Not sure of the A330 example, perhaps there were some specific limitations for the A330, or simply some varied interpretations of how CAO 48E applied.

[Capt Kremin]

The A330 was flown under a Letter of Agreement based on the SH award but with differences. One of them was a MDC equal to that of the LH award.

You can't have LOA's anymore so unless something else is negotiated, the A330 would operate under the full SH award if it reverted back to SH flying.

[schlong hauler]

Whilst we argue amongst ourselves regarding the pros and cons of both the short and long haul awards the question that is of most interest is what plans have J* in place for the introduction of the 787? Its a year away and I would have thought that there would be several pilots and engineers planning its introduction. Endorsements and engineering courses would be in full swing I should think and yet not even a peep from a J* pilot in the know. I smell a rat a very big white rat.

"Further down the track, Qantas will inherit some of Jetstar's 787-8s for domestic service, ranging from the 'golden triangle' of Brisbane-Sydney-Melbourne to the cross-country leg from the east coast to Perth.
“In the short term domestic is secondary, but in the long term it’s a primary role (for the 787)" Strambi told Australian Business Traveller.

[HF3000]

For a CEO to change a business plan without losing facing he usually needs some form of "crisis" to give him a bone fide reason for changing the plan so that he can come out smelling of roses for reacting so swiftly to avert the "crisis".

Could JB's new Virgin be that "crisis"?.

Or is the future still Orange.

[Mstr Caution]

HF3000

After grounding the airline & sending the process to arbitration.

Aj's next crisis will be dealing with an arbitrated decision that isn't 100% in managements favour.

Meaning, their will be some manufactured crisis to deal with.

Speaking of groundings, where's OW?

[QF94]

After grounding the airline & sending the process to arbitration.

Aj's next crisis will be dealing with an arbitrated decision that isn't 100% in managements favour.

Meaning, their will be some manufactured crisis to deal with.

Spot on. There is no real crisis for an airline posting profits year after year. Management says it's looking after investor's interests. Investors haven't seen a return in a few years and their capital investment hs headed south. As Pauline Hanson would say "Please explain".

Speaking of groundings, where's OW?

Who cares?

[TIMA9X]

Heard a rumour that they'll be trading the A380's in on A320 Neo's for those MEL - PER & ADL - PER sectors. 5th May 2012 09:11Probably true, for this week anyway, considering that A380 cutback announcement last Friday... :)

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UZDSaV6E-fk/T6ejsPrV_HI/AAAAAAAABwY/WD3x8oJ4lAw/s0-d/001-route-planning.jpg

[Keg]

Apparently the High Court hands down it's ruling today on AIPA's challenge to the FWA prohibition on our industrial action. 1030 is the goss.

[Capt Kremin]

Where the hell is my tie?!!?:cool:

[Mstr Caution]

The High Court Ruling is some 30 minutes away, however if the High Court Rules:

a. In favour of the FWA decision, expect Alan Joyce to announce that his (and his alone) decision to ground the airline & bring arbitration to a "head" was justified. Supported by the ruling of the High Court & endorsement by "many" Australian CEO's for taking on those bully boy unions.

or

b. In favour of AIPA, expect Alan Joyce to move from an Industrial, to business & economic stance to justify downsizing of Qantas mainline operations. After all no Union should have any input as to how he shall run his company.

[Capt Kremin]

Agreed...... except it is Federal Court.

Wonder if it goes against them if there is a High Court challenge planned. The Employers Federation would doubtless be interested in bankrolling it.

[maggot]

Qantas pilots lose Fair Work court challenge (http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-pilots-lose-fair-work-court-challenge-20120510-1ye45.html)

[Conductor]

No real surprise. That's two unloseable cases that AIPA has lost. I have never been less engaged. Next come the demotions/reductions in numbers/redundancies.

[Capt Kremin]

Oh well... the ceremonial burning of the tie can go ahead I guess.

The FWA laws will really have to be looked at... my fear though is that is exactly what Abbott has planned. Though with outcomes like this... why bother?

[Shark Patrol]

That's two unloseable cases that AIPA has lost. Don't know how you come up with that assessment. I assume the other case is the Jetconnect case?

Personally, I think AIPA had Buckley's chance of winning the FWA appeal when you consider that the Victorian, NSW and Federal governments all gave evidence against AIPA's appeal. Can you seriously imagine three judges going against that amount of political power? As for the Jetconnect case, if two out of three judges can argue that Jetconnect isn't a sham when their own CEO admits that Qantas pays all the bills and doesn't even know if Jetconnect has its own bank accounts, what can you do??

The justice system isn't about justice! Can't wait for the arbitration outcome!!!!

[Conductor]

Yes, I was also referring to the Jetconnect case. 'Unloseable' wasn't the right word; the rest of your post sums up exactly the reasons why I am not surprised at the outcome. I was trying to describe the blatant daylight robbery that has occurred in both cases and has been condoned by the judicial outcomes.

[maggot]

Personally, I think AIPA had Buckley's chance of winning the FWA appeal when you consider that the Victorian, NSW and Federal governments all gave evidence against AIPA's appeal. Can you seriously imagine three judges going against that amount of political power?

not to mention the vested interest of the federal guv'ment in Juliars pet FWA

I must say I'm disappointed but not surprised. I doesn't mesh with me that it was all bundled up together in the lockout but the show will go on :hmm:

[TheWholeEnchilada]

What we have here is the modern version of a wage price control system. A much more sophisticated coat of varnish, but underneath, same as it ever was.
It's more sophisticated in there are hundreds of pages of legislation & regulations to give cover to the arbiters of the system - the crony capitalists & central planners (business and governments) & their bureaucratic functionaries. Under no circumstance will labour be allowed to have a win or threaten stability of the system. You take what you are given, there is no longer any genuine bargaining, and if you don't like it, the full force of the government will be used against you as a criminal.

Welcome to the modern face of repression, there is nothing new under the sun, here's a quote from 1850.

But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime.

Then abolish this law without delay, for it is not only an evil itself, but also it is a fertile source for further evils because it invites reprisals. If such a law — which may be an isolated case — is not abolished immediately, it will spread, multiply, and develop into a system.

The person who profits from this law will complain bitterly, defending his acquired rights. He will claim that the state is obligated to protect and encourage his particular industry; that this procedure enriches the state because the protected industry is thus able to spend more and to pay higher wages to the poor workingmen.

Do not listen to this sophistry by vested interests. The acceptance of these arguments will build legal plunder into a whole system. In fact, this has already occurred. The present-day delusion is an attempt to enrich everyone at the expense of everyone else; to make plunder universal under the pretense of organizing it.
The Law (http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html#SECTION_G020)
Frédéric Bastiat

[hotnhigh]

Sadly, not surprising unfortunately. We move another day closer to the end.

[clotted]

3-0 I can't believe it. That's pretty comprehensive.

[TIMA9X]

A sad day for the law of the land.

[Stalins ugly Brother]

Sydney Morning Herald;
The judges said that Fair Work Australia should not have ordered the unions to stop their industrial action.
However the operation of the law meant that after Fair Work Australia found Qantas' protected industrial action - the lockout - threatened to cause significant damage to the Australian economy, none of the parties were able to engage in industrial action.

Read more: Relationship with Joyce strained: pilots (http://www.smh.com.au/business/relationship-with-joyce-strained-pilots-20120510-1yead.html#ixzz1uUI3RUeF)

It appears personally the Judges don't agree will little Alan's stunt last November whilst still having to upholding the Law.
What makes it interesting is in next months arbitration, if these judges didn't like AJs tactic, and the Government and FWA panel have been embarrassed by his little stunt and still feel they have egg on their face, could there be a little bit of a sting in the tale for Alan in next months arbitration????

If I was AJ I wouldn't be popping the corks (or sending Olivia to get a facial) just yet! :=

[mohikan]

SUB.

I hope you are right, but I wouldn't be too sure.

There are plenty of indicators that the company has been keen to get AIPA into arbitration. Not the least of which has been the tactic of 'agreeing' on an EBA point during one meeting and then saying "nah thats now off the table" during the next meeting. I reckon that really fancy their chances.

The fact that the full bench of FWA is stacked with ex-Freehills lawyers might have something to do with this.

As a minority government, desperately clinging to power, the faction of Labor that controls the Caucus at the moment has been desperate to keep big business happy where it could.

Shorten and Julia saw what the miners and the BCA did to Rudd, and know what they have to do to stay in power. Sacrificing a few silver tail pilots to an ideological agenda is a small price to pay in that regard. There is no question in my mind that they knew, or strongly suspected, that Joyce was going to ground the airline.

The fact that Julia directed the Government to 'strongly appose' AIPA's application to the High Court speaks volumes in this regard.

As I said, I hope I am wrong, but I believe AIPA is going to get smashed in arbitration. I remember Joyce's body language on the day of the grounding and the day FWA cancelled the industrial action - he was cock a hoop. The plan was now all falling into place.

[SilverSleuth]

This is exactly, exactly ! What Joyce wanted. To get it to the FWA.
The FWA is never going to make qantas pay all jetstar pilots the same money as qantas in any form. He knew this too. Don't get me wrong, I wish that was case. But as long he doesn't have to do that he has won and will continue dissolving more and more sections of QF mainline. His aim is to one day have the majority of QF pilots (weather it be flown in orange colours or red) be on orange wages. This is a very long term plan, -( think future 787, replacements for other aircraft over time and more foreign based crew, upgrades as well)
I truly feel for you guys, as I don't really see what can be done now. A real bloody shame.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Regardless of what happens guys at least you are fighting this. Better than rolling over and giving them everything they want.

[Hot n Heavy]

Regardless of what happens guys at least you are fighting this. Better than rolling over and giving them everything they want.

Are you serious? What a ridiculous statement! Regardless of what happens? If the Union is destroyed that is ok? If all the jobs go overseas that is ok? We pilots pay our dues for results not fine sentiments mate.

If you want to run your mob as a testosterone fuelled vexatious litigant that's fine mate, but we pilots are supposed to be more sensible.

As one who has more than paid his way over the years I am not happy Jan with the way things are going/have gone. Too much bullsh**t from people like you I think Steve.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

If you want to run your mob as a testosterone fuelled vexatious litigant that's fine mate, but we pilots are supposed to be more sensible.



Am not sure what sets you apart from me becasue you are a pilot. I am an Engineer and I'm pretty sure we are both meant to be sensible. Maybe I put it the wrong way. I can explain in a little more detail and it has nothing to do with testosterone.

If Qantas has 3000 pilots and 3000 Engineers and have a five year plan that would see each of those groups reduced to zero due to outsourcing or the creation of other airlines we have two options. We can do nothing or we can do something.

If we do nothing 3000 pilots and 3000 Engineers will lose their jobs. If we fight this with whatever means are available at least we have a chance, however small that maybe, that we may win and save those jobs.

What takes place in one court room is just a small part of a much bigger picture. Your Association is trying as hard as they can to protect you from corporate robbery. Please don't blame them or me for the fact that they don't want to employ us in the same manner as they did in the past. My bullsh*t was not part of the reason for them wanting to change things.

[QF94]

Are you serious? What a ridiculous statement! Regardless of what happens? If the Union is destroyed that is ok? If all the jobs go overseas that is ok? We pilots pay our dues for results not fine sentiments mate.


In a strange kind of way, I agree. Jobs, whether they be pilots, engineers or street sweepers should not be lost.

This year alone we have seen too many companies lose jobs, QANTAS included. I have lost track of the thousands of jobs that have been shed this year.

To say whatever happens, at least we have put up a fight! The company is going to get what it wants while we are kicking and screaming to resist.

They just enjoy giving it to us while resisting them. They feel it was worth it.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

In 10 years time we could be looking back at this period and saying to ourselves - Why did we sit back and allow them to take our jobs off us without even a fight? We won't be saying that.

The decison of the Federal Court and FWA is just a reflection of the laws that govern this land today. Losing the case does not mean it was all for nothing. It has highlighted the farcical situation that a company can take action against itself and then cry foul that the action is crippling them to remove the right of workers to take lawful action themselves. It has highlighted a flaw in our laws.

In turn it would be most likely that this will drive change in the legal system. FWA will determine the outcome of pilot negotiations but it will take into account the behavior of the parties. AIPAs pilot members can hold their heads up high in this regard and it will be Qantas on the back foot in that forum. Qantas haven't got what they want yet.

[Mstr Caution]

Pilots - Federal court determines Red ties & PA's as Innocuous

Alan Joyce - Justice Nye Perram (Federal Court) concludes Qantas "Opportunistic lock out of pilots"

Alan Joyce - Senate Inquiry states the airline was grounded as a result of the lock out.

Hopefully, FWA will arbitrate appropriately on the "manufactured" situation Qantas created.

[Tuner 2]

The deficiency in the Act is that s 413(7)(a) effectively encourages an employer to perform some significant act of self-harm (eg a grounding) in order to terminate the other parties’ right to PIA and force a determination. The question is was this the intent of the author(s) of the Act? If not, it needs to urgently be addressed via the FWA review.

[hadagutfull]

Me thinks at the end of the day... this Qf/JQ.. Pilot/ Engineer outsourcing issue is just a side show for a bigger plan that is being hatched at a political level.
Its never going to be a fair fight. This is just a " testing the waters" issue.

When you look at the who's who from the PM down, and all the past ties, connections, favours, back scratching and big noting... we are pushing Shyte uphill..

The whole thing stinks. They are all a bunch of greedy power mongering judas' who's legacy will infect this country for years to come.

I have little faith in the system these days, but I applaud those who question it and put up a fight. You have my full support, no matter what union or line of work you are in.

rant over...

[QF94]

@fedsecalaea

In 10 years time we could be looking back at this period and saying to ourselves - Why did we sit back and allow them to take our jobs off us without even a fight? We won't be saying that.

Outside of the tecnicalities and legalities of F Wits Australia, it matters little what happens in there and what decisions are reached. Let's look back at the demise of Ansett, the closing of HM Sydney and the pending closure of Tulla HM and the future closing of Avalon. With all the fighting and kicking and screaming, was it/will it be stopped? Nope.

I've lost count of the number of jobs lost Australia wide this year alone. While companies use the GFC as their excuse to shut down and shift jobs offshore, and the government does nothing but sit back and watch, what hope is there?

Qantas haven't got what they want yet.

But they will. No matter who puts up a fight or who is in government.

hadagutful, I think, has hit the nail on the head. I have less faith than him in the government, the legal system and the unions, who are having their powers eroded, even by the "white collar" Labor party.

[ampclamp]

We need our own party in the senate.

I keep saying it, cos labor have sold out the rank and file of all but the biggest more influential unions. And Tony is going to have us reamed out.

[gobbledock]

I don't really keep 'abreast' of CC issues and this is not the usual place for trolley dolly stuff but I heard this morning on the AM shift that 20 Flighties pulled the pin in BNE this week and another 25 finish up next week in BNE? Anyone know if this is true? LHLisa you know anything bout this? I heard a good proportion are headed to Team Borghetti.

If there is a merit of truth in this robust rumor then the answer to Elaines 'staff engagement survey' is in.
The 'gossip' who informed me about this rumor certainly didn't hold back from lambasting the Irish chump, and in front of some passengers as well. Best bit was when the pax started chiming in and agreeing with the 'gossip' and all were using colorful language to be sure! Now technically I should report the 'gossip' for this outlandish behavior however due to the treatment of all staff by the disgraceful management I have proudly kept quiet (except on prune) and will not be reporting this person for their naughty behavior, rather I will be encouraging more of the same.

[TIMA9X]

ILX4AXdzoi4

[GUARD]

LIP SERVICE :ugh:

[ampclamp]

tima9x, some clever editing and re captioning would make it far more entertaining.:E

gobbledock, it would be shame to lose so many Brissy CC. Some of the best and nicest CC are based there imho.

[TIMA9X]

tima9x, some clever editing and re captioning would make it far more entertaining.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gifI wish I could, last time OW & Co banned my channel with a 160, 000 hits, Q management are very sensitive to the truth getting out and they can't have that get in the way.. :*



Speaking outside the Federal Court, Captain Brad Hodson, vice president of the Australian and International Pilots Association, said the pilots' low key industrial action should not have been lumped in with other Qantas' unions industrial campaigns.


''From a cursory view of the judgement it would appear there are judges who agreed our actions were not the problem, it was the action of Alan Joyce to close the airline down that bought this to a head, and thus denied Qantas long haul pilots the ability to bargain,'' he said.

''Our view would be that its very hard to say that wearing a red tie and making a public address announcement is damaging the economy. We got lumped in with other unions which may well have done that.''
''We disagree with Alan Joyce's views of basically shoring up the short term.
''Qantas pilots are going to be here in 5-10 years. Alan Joyce won't (be). It's a legacy that other people like him and (former Qantas CEO) Geoff Dixon have left is the problem.''
Qantas spokeswoman Olivia Wirth said the company was pleased with the Federal Court decision

Read more: Relationship with Joyce strained: pilots (http://www.theage.com.au/business/relationship-with-joyce-strained-pilots-20120510-1yead.html#ixzz1ucKxJzzI)
I bet OW was pleased...... they got their own way again, this time, with a lot of help from the misguided legal industry embedded in the FWA act and in Canberra... shameful.. with no common sense attached.

by hadagutfull; When you look at the who's who from the PM down, and all the past ties, connections, favours, back scratching and big noting... we are pushing Shyte uphill..

The whole thing stinks. They are all a bunch of greedy power mongering judas' who's legacy will infect this country for years to come.

I have little faith in the system these days, but I applaud those who question it and put up a fight.Says it all for me, and I am sorry that I can't come up with something to catch these bast*rds out, they are a beautifully protected species from the top of government down, its hopeless really but I will keep trying.. :\

[ejectx3]

That video is beyond stomach churning

[my oleo is extended]

Give me a break, that add is abysmal. Maybe attach the year 2000 to it and it would be believable, but that is NOT Qantas 2012.
And what's doing with the lame music in the commercial? Is that what Elaine had playing as his wedding waltz, some Bronski Beat?
Definitely a case of the toffee coated turd. The commercial makes the place look pristine and sweet, but lick the top layer off and you have ****e underneath!

[TheWholeEnchilada]

Its truly amazing what a work experience kid armed with a HandyCam and iMovie can do these days.
</sarcasm>

[MR WOBBLES]

Looks like another reporter, just got his membership to the chairman's lounge well done Cameron.

Fasten your seatbelts
BY: CAMERON STEWART From: The Australian May 12, 2012 12:00AM

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/fasten-your-seatbelts/story-e6frg8h6-1226349882403)

[maggot]

Arrrggh. I thought I worked for an airline, not a 'brand' :hmm:

[ejectx3]

IN a bar high above Hong Kong harbour, Alan Joyce cradles a vodka and tonic as if it were an old friend.
The Qantas chief has just flown in from New York and this is the last stop of a grinding global roadshow, spruiking the national carrier to the world. He should be in a jetlag haze, but instead Joyce is in the mood for some fun. His blue eyes dance as he leans forward and tells a tale which almost defies belief.
"I remember when people were stealing Jetstar's seatbelts," he says. "Apparently they were being worn by some in the community as a proper belt and they had become quite a fashion statement." The Irishman dissolves into laughter as he conjures up the mental picture of a Jetstar fashionista. He warms to the theme and talks about the lifejackets which have also been disappearing on flights to water-playgrounds such as Hamilton Island. Then he tells a tale about how the lightest fingers on an aircraft can be those adorned with the biggest diamonds. First and business class passengers, he says, have recently been slipping Marc Newson-designed teaspoons into their pockets at an alarming rate. The Great Teaspoon Robbery has cost Qantas more than $50,000.

Joyce revels in these tales of the bizarre. Like many of his countrymen, he loves a good story and he tells it well. His thick brogue flies at such a speed he can be hard to follow. The only respite is when he laughs or sips his drink. He is still talking more than two hours later, as night falls over Hong Kong harbour and a million lights twinkle across the city.
The longer we speak, the harder it is to reconcile this Alan Joyce with the tightly coiled CEO of six months earlier who plucked his planes from the sky, leaving a nation agog, and who now wields the axe over more than 1000 workers as his airline restructures to survive. "Me personally, I'm feeling great, no issues," he says, as if it is a strange question to be asked. "And it's really good to focus on something other than industrial relations."



JOYCE'S stunning decision last October to ground the entire Qantas fleet, disrupting the travel plans of some 100,000 people, propelled this gay mathematician from the wrong side of Dublin to instant national fame or infamy, depending on your perspective. Since then, Joyce has been directing in Napoleonic detail a fierce behind-the-scenes campaign to repair the damage to the Qantas brand; to stitch the flying kangaroo back together piece by piece. Having gambled his career, his reputation and his airline, Joyce knows this is a challenge he cannot afford to lose. "Most management decisions are gut feelings," he says about the quest to win back those disaffected Qantas customers. "You are trying to do enough to ensure you are regaining people's trust and loyalty ... to apologise and do it in a sufficient way that isn't an insult, but in a way that also isn't way over the top because you are running a business."
In truth, Joyce's rescue mission began on the day of the grounding on October 29. Despite it being a defining moment in his life, he can't pinpoint the exact moment when he decided to take the drastic action. He knows that when he went to bed in his apartment at The Rocks in Sydney on the evening of Friday, October 28 last year, he was thinking that Qantas' battle with the unions, which had been orchestrating rolling stoppages against the airline for months - causing havoc to its schedules - had gotten out of hand. Earlier that day he had attended a fiery annual general meeting that saw many shareholders leave in disgust after Joyce was granted a $2 million increase in his salary package. He maintains that as he turned out the light that night he had not decided what course to take, although contingency plans - including grounding the fleet - had been canvassed weeks before.
He slept soundly and the next morning, somewhere en route to his office from his home, he resolved to propose the radical plan to his team. "I knew what my gut feeling was, but I also knew my mind could be changed if my advisers said, 'Alan, that's a crazy decision, you shouldn't be doing it.'" He met with around 10 of his key executives that morning and when each of them backed his proposal he contacted the Qantas board, which also supported him unanimously.
Joyce held his memorable granite-jaw press conference at 5pm that afternoon to announce the grounding and, less than two hours later, he went into damage control. "I said, 'Who are our key stakeholders?'" he says. "I rang the top five or six CEOs, our really important customers, and gave them a heads up about what was happening and why." These included BHP, Rio Tinto and Leighton Holdings. Joyce says they were supportive, but outside the nation's boardrooms the public mood was poisonous as thousands of stranded passengers missed family holidays, reunions, weddings and funerals.
Almost overnight Joyce morphed into a caricature that bore little resemblance to the real man. The union movement portrayed him as a heartless, union-busting thug, gambling the future of an Aussie icon for profit. Fellow CEOs saw Joyce as the courageous corporate hero, drawing a line in the sand on behalf of employers in the face of union blackmail. For the next two months, Joyce and his trusted spokesperson, Olivia Wirth, had bodyguards follow them everywhere and stake out venues before they arrived in response to written death threats that had been sent to their homes.
The intense personal focus coupled with the threats was an uncomfortable experience for Joyce, partly because he is relatively private - although not reclusive - about his sexuality. Joyce lives with his partner of 14 years, a New Zealand man whom he does not want named. "I have been sensitive because of the aggression that was out there [after the grounding]," says Joyce. "I don't want him brought into that. I don't think he deserves it." He has at times also been wary about how some people in the corporate arena might react to his sexuality and for that reason he has neither hidden it nor promoted it. Joyce says his partner was an important source of advice and comfort throughout the dispute. "We talked about everything, I can trust him completely and he doesn't talk to anyone else about what I tell him."
In the days immediately following the grounding Joyce was all over the media, having followed Wirth's advice to take every opportunity to explain his actions. Privately, however, he was also holding a series of emergency meetings within Qantas to nut out a strategy of recovery for the national carrier, which some feared had been irrevocably tarnished. "We were asking ourselves in those meetings, 'What can we do to get our brand loyalty back,'" recalls Joyce. "I said, 'What's the [common] sense check on this? Do we offer a free domestic flight to these people, a free international flight, what is right?'"
Meanwhile, he closely monitored public feeling, wandering over to the Qantas customer complaints department and reading the incoming emails. Eventually, Joyce settled on a $29 million package of sweeteners such as free flights and full refunds for affected passengers, as well as a raft of frequent flyer bonuses and full-page apologies in newspapers.
The grounding was a tactical triumph for Joyce because it forced Fair Work Australia to terminate industrial action, allowing Qantas to resume flying without the threat of rolling strikes. But the biggest shock for Joyce and his team was not the response of his customers but the ferocity of the Government, with Prime Minister Julia Gillard accusing Qantas of acting in "an extreme and irresponsible way". A furious Joyce dispatched Wirth to Canberra for the second time in three days to roam the corridors of Parliament and argue Qantas' case. It was, she says, a "bloody awful" experience, although several ministers were more sympathetic privately about Joyce's decision than they felt they could be in public.
Some accepted the logic of Joyce's argument that industrial action in the preceding months had cost Qantas $68 million (although this figure is disputed by the unions). Some ministers could also see that industrial action had robbed the airline of any certainty in its schedules, sparking an exodus to Virgin and other carriers. Some also accepted that with Qantas' international arm losing some $200 million a year, Joyce had little choice but to make unpleasant cost cuts to the business in order to secure the airline's future. But many did not accept that this justified Joyce's decision to ground the airline. Ironically, it was the government that inadvertently helped foster some sympathy for Joyce days later when it overreached in its attacks on him at a Senate Committee. Labor Senator Doug Cameron famously accused Joyce of being "a bit like Richard Nixon", to which the Irishman quipped: "You're a bit like a McCarthy trial."
Some felt the very personal targeting of Joyce had gone too far. Among the messages of support he received was a phone call from British Airways chief Willie Walsh, a fellow Irishman who'd once worked with Joyce at the Irish carrier Aer Lingus. "Willie said he saw me on Sky [TV] and he had his own union problems so we exchanged stories," recalls Joyce. "I joked to him, 'Why do we run full service legacy carriers, because it's much easier running low-cost carriers.' He said, 'Because you can make a difference.' I think that was a good line."
After his Senate hearing in Canberra, Joyce was boarding his flight home on a Qantas Dash 8 aircraft when another passenger came up to him. Rather than take a swing, the man shook his hand and told him he ran a small construction company with only 35 employees and he was having union problems. "He told me he was going to walk into his next union meeting with a T-shirt which said, 'We fly Qantas'," says Joyce. The man insisted on getting his photo taken with the CEO so he could hand out copies to his employees. At a Business Council of Australia dinner attended by Gillard in Sydney barely two weeks after the grounding, business leaders broke into spontaneous applause when it was announced that Joyce was in attendance.
Union leaders maintain that being a hero to the corporate sector means nothing in the real world. They say Joyce has a long way to go before he repairs what they argue was a breach of faith with ordinary Australians who once loved Qantas. "It is our view that his actions have damaged the Qantas brand reasonably significantly," says Richard Woodward, a Qantas pilot and vice-president of the Australian & International Pilots Association. "Customers are still not happy and his style is such that he is not bringing his staff with him during this tumultuous period of change. Now it seems that Joyce's PR machine is trying to soften his image."
Joyce is also clearly on the nose with many Qantas staff, who fear for their futures under his rationalisation of the airline. One Qantas pilot, who asked not to be named, says: "Joyce has little respect among the staff and doesn't seem to comprehend that if he worked with the staff instead of against them, they would actually become engaged and more productive. The board had the choice of him or [Virgin Australia chief John] Borghetti. Look at the direction that both airlines are now heading and it's pretty obvious which airline got the better deal."


JOYCE'S rags-to-riches life story is a remarkable tale yet it is hardly the sort of background that might foster a right-wing hero. "It has been weird," says Joyce, who puzzles at being portrayed by some as a hardline neocon. "I've always voted Labor my entire life. My background is working class, I come from a very working-class suburb in Dublin called Tallaght and my grandfather was heavily involved in the union movement. I think unions have a role to play in society and they can be a force for good, but sometimes they can be a force for not so good. At the end of the day you have to stand up to bullies and what depresses me badly is that we have union leaders who took a deliberate campaign to hurt the brand ... it was so outrageous and destructive."
The more he talks about the airline unions, the more heated and animated Joyce becomes. Those who know him best say he is a genuinely nice bloke but that there is a fire deep within him which flares wildly in a confrontation. "He's a street-fighter," says one insider.
Joyce's determination was a birthmark. He describes himself as a "fiery kid" with a hatred of bullies and an obsessive love of mathematics. He realised he was gay from his late teens, but says that his family had already guessed by the time he confided in them. "My parents were fantastic and my [three] brothers were like, 'What's the big deal, we already knew'."
He obtained a master's degree in mathematics at Trinity College Dublin and only applied for a job at Aer Lingus because it involved building mathematical models. "Once I was there I just fell in love with the aviation industry," he says. He left Ireland in 1996 to join Ansett Australia, where he caught the attention of former British Airways chief Sir Rod Eddington. "He was incredibly thorough, hard-working and had a terrific head for strategic networks and fleet details," says Eddington, who was so impressed that he called Qantas CEO Geoff Dixon to tell him about the Irish mathematics wiz. When Dixon met with Joyce in 2000, the Irishman made such an impact that Dixon offered him a job before their meeting was finished.
Dixon reveals that Qantas almost lost Joyce in around 2005 when he contemplated moving back to Europe after setting up Qantas' low-cost carrier, Jetstar. "Alan came up to me one day and said, 'I have a great offer from a European carrier to start up a low-cost carrier with them. It is a good opportunity for me to be closer to my family and I'm going to take it,'?" recalls Dixon. Dixon gave him a sealed letter and told him to open it on the plane to Europe. The letter offered Joyce a big pay rise and promised him a golden future at Qantas. "He [Joyce] went to see his family in Dublin and his father read my letter," says Dixon. "His father said, 'Alan, you get back on that plane and tell them you are staying [with Qantas]." Joyce surpassed even Dixon's expectations and in late 2008 he succeeded him as CEO of Qantas. Dixon is full of praise for Joyce and says he had no choice but to ground the airline in order to confront the unions.

Since taking the helm, Joyce's reign at Qantas has at times appeared to have been cursed by the gods. Under his watch the airline has had to navigate the fallout from cyclones and floods in Queensland, earthquakes in Japan and New Zealand, volcanic ash from Chile, the European economic crisis and the near-disaster of an engine explosion on a new Airbus A380, which saw the temporary grounding of that fleet.
Then, in March last year, the gods delivered Joyce a far more personal jolt. The illness of one of his senior executives persuaded Joyce that his management team should have mandatory health checks - a practice that had been discontinued five years earlier due to cost-cutting. "I said I'd be the first one to do it, so I went in and did the health check and the doctor noticed my PSA [a protein that can indicate prostate cancer] was high," he recalls. Joyce had a biopsy and two days later was told that he had prostate cancer. He was stunned. He was not yet 45 years of age. His partner accompanied him to the doctor to discuss the options. "[The doctor] explained to me what the implications were, what my chances were. He explained it was a very aggressive form of cancer and he recommended taking the prostate out."
As always, Joyce did the maths, this time on his own life. He went home and surfed the net for information, and "it was a no-brainer". The operation went well and he is now cancer-free, but Joyce admits that grounding Qantas six months later was hardly consistent with his doctor's advice to avoid unnecessary stress. "I love my job and I have to do what's needed," he says. "You can either live life and do all that you need or you can go into a room and lock your windows and die a safe death. I think you have to go out there and live life."
The barbs that most hurt Joyce in the months after the grounding were those that targeted his Irish heritage. Did he think some of the criticism was racist? He ponders the question carefully. "Some of the commentary out there I wouldn't have been happy with," he says. "I felt [MP] Bob Katter's commentary was very racist and I insisted on a meeting with him where I told him, 'I took offence to what you said about foreigners coming in and running these companies'." Katter recalls a fiery exchange with Joyce in his Parliament House office. "It wasn't pleasant; we had a frank exchange of views," he says. "I don't think we agreed on anything but I did admire him fronting up to his critics. I wasn't mocking the Irish but there is a breed of Irish CEOs that have a very ruthless attitude."
Says Joyce, a dual citizen: "I think being Irish is one of the best nationalities you could have but I am also Australian and the fact that this is not recognised is very disappointing. Australia is built on immigration." Yet Joyce does not agree with former Telstra boss Sol Trujillo, a US businessman of Mexican heritage who once described Australia as racist and said living here was "like stepping back in time".
"I don't think Sol was right," says Joyce. "There is a small minority of Australians that have a problem but the vast majority are unbelievably supportive." Even so, the fact that an Irishman is piloting an iconic Australian brand through the most turbulent period in its history has not made it easier for him.
He knows there is a disconnect between the way Qantas is perceived by many people and the reality of its existence in a cut-throat, deregulated market. "There's a lot of people who think Qantas is still in some way state-owned, has a public service obligation and who don't know it is a listed company. There is a view that it can never disappear but history has told us that amazing brands like Pan Am and TWA have all disappeared - there is no right to existence and we have to fight for our survival."
Joyce says that some unions still believe a "$1 profit" is enough for Qantas even though it is no longer government-owned. Others say it is hypocritical for Joyce to expect people to judge Qantas as nothing more than a cold, hard business when the airline shamelessly exploits its position as the national carrier with its nationalistic, heart-tugging "I Still Call Australia Home" campaign.
"You can't be just another company if you claim to be the Spirit of Australia," says Michael Newman, head of agency Brand Newman and former creative director at Saatchi & Saatchi, who has worked on a number of airline accounts. "Spirit is an aura around the brand that can be felt and can be missed. Apple has an aura; Samsung has a price."
Newman believes Joyce needs to be less clinical and to show more heart in the way he is seeking to reposition Qantas. "The pride Australians used to feel in the Qantas brand forgave a lot over the years and kept fares at a premium mark-up," says Newman. "I suspect current management doesn't put a high value on emotion. But it's emotional values that have to be genuinely embraced if the brand is to flourish long-term."


BY Christmas last year, two months after the grounding, Joyce was battle-weary from his fight with the unions, the fallout from the grounding and his recuperation from cancer. At that point, the damage to Qantas from the crisis - which would later be costed at $194 million - was still raw and palpable. In November, domestic passenger numbers had slumped by 11.3 per cent from the previous November while international numbers were down 3.6 per cent. Qantas was also on the nose in cyberspace, making a number of tactical errors in the Twittersphere.
Joyce was under fierce attack for the appalling timing of his pay rise: at the AGM, on the day before he grounded the airline, he received bonuses and shares that effectively bumped his total salary package by $2 million to $5 million. Joyce maintains he could not avoid the timing and protests that it has been misreported as a $2 million rise in his take-home pay. "I knew we were going to get hammered on it but we couldn't do anything about it."
An exhausted Joyce took three weeks off over Christmas and hosted his family who were visiting from Ireland. He read a biography of Apple founder Steve Jobs and a "maths thriller" that explored a 500-year quest to solve a famous mathematic theory. When Joyce returned to work, in mid January, the news for Qantas had brightened. Confidential research commissioned by Joyce showed that its highly valued corporate clients were flying with Qantas with the same frequency as they had before the industrial crisis.
In March, veteran pollster Rod Cameron, who is now working as a consultant to Qantas, assessed all the available research and wrote a confidential report titled The Qantas Brand and the 2011 Grounding, which he delivered directly to Joyce. It was music to the Irishman's ears. "The impact of the grounding was less than the media hype suggested," the report concluded. "[It] caused shock waves but it was a short, sharp shock.

"What brand damage was evident was primarily among the very infrequent, fare-conscious flyers who tend to side with 'battlers' who they saw as being the unions in the dispute. There were modest declines in brand rating among the larger mums and dads segment (three to four times a year flyers) but these returned quickly to pre-grounding levels and the key premium flyer market (regular flyers, business and corporate market) actually judged Qantas positively during the dispute." Not everyone agrees that the Qantas brand has fully recovered. Its main competitor, Virgin Australia, provided me with its own independent research which argues that since the grounding Virgin has overtaken Qantas in terms of business customer satisfaction. A Virgin spokesperson claims Virgin is now "well on our way to becoming the airline of choice in Australia".
Joyce is now immersed in the unpopular process of implementing hundreds of job cuts and rationalising Qantas maintenance in Australia to address the loss-making international arm of the business (as opposed to the group's highly profitable domestic operation and Jetstar). He says cutting jobs is the worst thing he has had to do as a CEO - more so than the grounding. He knows how unpopular it makes him with staff, although he says there are many employees who understand the need for Qantas to remain competitive.
While Joyce is still viewed by many Qantas workers and by the unions as a wrecker, he firmly believes that time will prove him right. Years from now, he says, Qantas will be stronger for the painful remedies he is currently implementing. Despite this, he knows his own reputation is still a work in progress in the broader community. He recently agreed to a small Q&A profile in the men's fashion magazine GQ because it had a broader non-business audience and he wanted to get his message out to "certain elements of the public out there who didn't get it and didn't understand". Joyce also agreed to be interviewed for this article and flew me from Melbourne to Hong Kong to watch him launch a new airline, Jetstar Hong Kong.
As we share a drink in the Hong Kong bar, Joyce's chipper mood reflects his belief that the biggest gamble of his life has paid off. "All of the indicators are that the brand has recovered to where it was before the industrial action," he says.

A DAY earlier, as my Qantas 747 jumbo rolled backwards from its gate at Melbourne airport bound for Hong Kong, the pilot announced it was the last time a Qantas jumbo jet would fly out of Melbourne. The 747 has been superseded by the new Airbus A380s and, on the Hong Kong route, by the smaller Airbus A330s. Joyce has overseen these changes.
I look out the window to see that the airport's fire trucks have lined up along the runway, spraying our plane with water as a farewell gesture as we pass. The flight attendant sitting nearby, a 15-year veteran of the 747 service from Melbourne, stares out at the waving firemen. "That's very nice of them," he says, his lips trembling with emotion. By the time we are rolling down the runway, tears are rolling down his cheeks. As the plane lifts off, he turns to a colleague across the aisle, wipes his eyes and says: "That's it then, the last one ever."
It's a small moment but it says a lot about the precious egg that Joyce holds in his hand. Many Australians can't help but invest emotion into the debate over Qantas. Joyce's challenge is to emerge from these clouds on the right side of history.

[balance]

The abject dishonesty in that article only makes me hate him more.

[ejectx3]

I didn't think there was more hate left in me but.....

[V-Jet]

Is there a fate worse than a fate worse than death?

[Shed Dog Tosser]

I just vomited in my mouth.

[gobbledock]

What a nauseating load of ****e. Let's cut through all of his explanations, ponderings, musings and other pooh lined ditties.

Look back several years to the day Joyce took over QF up til today. Look at the airlines structure, profitability, staff morale and achievements?
Finally do the same evaluation on Virgin from when Godfrey took a long walk to Borghetti taking over up til today? I rest my case.

[Clipped]

The Qantas chief has just flown in from New York and this is the last stop of a grinding global roadshow

He needs to, QAN closed at $1.51.

That is what the business world thinks of this airline and his forward strategy.

Keep sipping the V&T it's celebration time.

[Wedcue]

It's over. Seriously, that's got to be it.

The courts, the media, the public, they're all off side to us pilots.

Lets be honest, how, just how could you possibly win the hearts and minds of the public now. Qantas workers have had their chance.

This was the last straw. Guys, time to get out before you're pushed. I've had enough and I've just signed a contract to get out, it feels great!

[DEFCON4]

That long winded piece of journalistic dross is the most pathetic article I have ever read
No one is on Joyce's side.Everyone sees him for what he is~an Irish geek who has had an incredible run of luck to become CEO of Qantas.His time is running out.The board and Clifford have realized their error and a replacement is being sought

[QF94]

IN a bar high above Hong Kong harbour, Alan Joyce cradles a vodka and tonic as if it were an old friend.
The Qantas chief has just flown in from New York

Which airline did he fly? QF don't fly JFK-HKG, unless he flew by private jet oooorr CX.

Dixon reveals that Qantas almost lost Joyce in around 2005 when he contemplated moving back to Europe after setting up Qantas' low-cost carrier, Jetstar. "Alan came up to me one day and said, 'I have a great offer from a European carrier to start up a low-cost carrier with them. It is a good opportunity for me to be closer to my family and I'm going to take it,'?" recalls Dixon. Dixon gave him a sealed letter and told him to open it on the plane to Europe. The letter offered Joyce a big pay rise and promised him a golden future at Qantas.

What a shame we didn't lose him. We'd have been far better off without him. It must have been some massive pay increase to stay at QF, and the chance to finish off what Dixon started.

I read the rest of the "infomercial" and just shook my head. What else can one do when these people are very deluded about themselves?

[gobbledock]

The sealed envelope also contained a photo of Darth doing a naked star jump!
I think that was what actually sealed the deal.

[teresa green]

It simply makes you realise what a tragic loss Borgetti was, imagine how QF would be firing along now.

[Sunfish]

Most of what you read is trashy business porn.

The article is a very carefully constructed Puff piece designed to counter the negative image of Joyce. It has Wirth prints all over it. There are others like it around the world. Journalists know exactly how they are structured.

"When little johnny was a child growing up in XXXXX he didn't realise that one day he would be YYYYYY.

Coming from humble beginnings as a ZZZZ growing up in the rough back streets of HHHHHHH, he began work in the mail room of FFFFFFFFF working for a dollar an hour while he studied finance at Harvard, blah blah blah"


You know the drill, it all sounds like a chap has made good through his own hard work, intelligence and diligence instead of luckily being in the right place at the right time with the attendant political skills to climb the corporate greasy pole..

Rest assured that the author was well paid one way or another.

If you want another example of hagiograhy read about Jamie Dimon - last week this paragon blew at least Two billion dollars of JP Morgan money on a complex derivative bet that went wrong.

Even future Masters of the Universe need a hero.

Wall Street pros in search of a role model may need to look no further than JPMorgan Chase chairman and CEO Jamie Dimon who has weathered the financial crisis better than most other financial titans.

"He's not where he is because he's a maker of mistakes," says Duff McDonald, author of a new biography, "Last Man Standing: The Ascent of Jamie Dimon and JPMorgan Chase."

At 53, Dimon has perhaps the best reputation on Wall Street, one that extends even beyond the Street, and has earned the respect of Warren Buffett, once his role model. Sure, he has benefited from the mentorship of family friend and legendary Wall Street dealmaker Sandy Weill and is known for brashness that would short-circuit the careers of lesser talents.

But there's a lot to be learned from his career thus far. FINS.com recently spoke with McDonald about the career insights to be gleaned from Dimon's career. Here are the takeaways:

Top 10 Career Tips from Jamie Dimon - Finance and Accounting Jobs News and Advice (http://www.fins.com/Finance/Articles/SB125552932382584915/Top-10-Career-Tips-from-Jamie-Dimon)

Similar glowing tributes were written about Richard Pratt - who we discovered made his money out of running an illegal cartel. There are many similar "Captains of industry" that I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire.

[hadagutfull]

Well .. That article was one big f.....g hallmark moment.
It brought a tear to my eye ... Lucky I was wearing underwear to catch it.

How someone could disrespect their journalistic integrity by writing such tripe is beyond me.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Appears to have been written by:

Cameron Stewart

The Australian


Why not send him a text on how you feel about the article


Our Staff (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/)


Cameron Stewart



From: The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/)
October 26, 2007 12:00AM


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http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2007/10/26/1111114/733933-cameron-stewart.jpg
Cameron Stewart Source: The Australian



Associate Editor

Cameron Stewart is The Australian’s Associate Editor, specialising in investigative reports on national security issues such as terrorism and defence as well as federal politics and international affairs.

After graduating from Melbourne University with BA (Hons) in politics and history he became a spook with the spy agency Defence Signals Directorate before joining The Australian in 1987.

Almost immediately he found himself covering the October 1987 global stockmarket crash as the paper's stockmarket reporter.

From 1992 to 1995 he was posted to Canberra as the paper's foreign affairs and defence writer, covering major news stories on the ground in Somalia, Rwanda and throughout Asia.

From 1996 to 1999 he was The Australian's New York correspondent, a role which saw him cover the 1996 US presidential campaign.

From 1999 to 2000 he was the Victorian Editor of The Australian, presiding over coverage of Premier Jeff Kennett's shock election loss.

From 2000 to the present, he has worked as a senior news/investigative writer based in Melbourne. In 2009 he was awarded the highest honour in Australian newspapers, the Graham Perkin Award for Australian Journalist of the Year.
He has also won five Melbourne Press Club quill awards for excellence in Victorian journalism, two News Limited News Awards and has been a Walkley finalist for investigative journalism and runner up in News Limited’s highest honour, the Sir Keith Murdoch Award for Journalism.

Cameron lives in Melbourne and is married with three kids.

Phone; 03 9292 2824 or 0413 080 953

[Capt Kremin]

I actually feel sorry for any Murdoch journalist...... Having to prostitute your beliefs on a daily basis must get old so quickly.

[dr dre]

Life's too short to read or watch anything connected with Rupert Murdoch or News Limited, do yourself a favour guys and keep your blood pressure down, you know where their loyalties lie.

[TIMA9X]

Life's too short to read or watch anything connected with Rupert Murdoch or News Limited, do yourself a favour guys and keep your blood pressure down, you know where their loyalties lie. I agree, News Ltd is a powerful friend for OW, the only real friend she has in the media since she took the job.... the power of advertising...

There is a good side regarding this puff piece in the Australian, the paywall.. very small online readership, people are moving away from the Murdoch press in their droves to the other free news sites.. Good to see that OW is keeping up with the trends......;)

The chief executive of Fairfax Metro Media, Jack Matthews, said the figures ''reflected Fairfax's well flagged strategy of building readers across all platforms.''
Read more: Platform for change: newspaper sales fall as customers spread online (http://www.smh.com.au/business/platform-for-change-newspaper-sales-fall-as-customers-spread-online-20120510-1yfhx.html#ixzz1uiRtrZq5)

You got to say, Fairfax have been much fairer and balanced with its reporting..

for example
As one investor said yesterday, when it comes to making Jetstar the aviation McDonald's of Asia, it would be better to follow the script of letting someone else put up the capital with Jetstar contributing the recipe.
Read more: Asian start-up won't get off the ground (http://www.smh.com.au/business/asian-startup-wont-get-off-the-ground-20120216-1tbuq.html#ixzz1uiTKnhx0)

The reason why "brand Qantas" has been damaged... Joyce only knows McDonald's styled airline drive through management.....

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yGJNql571hE/T6-Rn7msCMI/AAAAAAAABxI/lM8ysObrOgY/s682/01-aj-2-flipping_burger-up4-no-maccas.jpg

[gobbledock]

TIMA9X, another stellar picture, to be sure.
Explains why he has put on so much weight!
Anyway yes, QF has become a McDonalds in it's service standards.

[The Professor]

"It simply makes you realise what a tragic loss Borgetti was, imagine how QF would be firing along now."

JB would be doing exactly the same at QF were he to be CEO instead of AJ.

Don’t be fooled by JB. He moved to an airline that does not have the decades of industrial fat that hobble QF. He can appear to be Mr. nice guy because he is not confronted with the industrial rationalization hurdle that AJ is.

[teresa green]

We will never know will we Professor? Did Joyce buy his shaving creme on special at Aldi?

[allthecoolnamesarego]

DEFCON:
The board and Clifford have realized their error and a replacement is being sought

Joyce is just the front man, Clifford is the problem. Clifford runs the show, Joyce is the sap mouthpiece.

To think that Clifford would replace Joyce is wrong. Clifford and Joyce need to go for Q to have any chance of surviving.

Coolnames

[Mstr Caution]

Reading the fluff piece on Joyce confirms to me, he's not the man for the job.

Not only has he managed to disengage his workforce. Now he's working over the full range of passengers. Every airline around the world has stuff stolen on it from passengers. To accuse his premium passengers of stealing a spoon is deplorable. Hell, if a first class passenger wants to take a spoon as souvenir of their experience. Give them a full cutlery set and a bottle of champagne as well. Have a look on E*B*A*Y, you can buy a Qantas spoon for $5. There's currently more than 10 available & a guy in Thailand is willing to ship worldwide.

As for AJ's comment "I'm feeling great, no issues". Could someone please remind the little fella, it was only six months ago he grounded an entire airline and disrupted the travel plans of 100,000 people. The article even goes on to state passengers missed weddings, funerals & holidays as a result of AJ's actions.

Speaking of grounding an airline, something as momentous as that and being a mathematical wizz kid. I find it hard to believe he couldn't pinpoint what time he "decided to take drastic action". Mind you if he did recall that specific time, it may not align with what he told the good senators in the inquiry.

As for the "intense personal focus coupled with the death threats". Haven't we already determined the police looked at the death threats & found no criminal acts were committed.

As for AJ's source of advise & comfort during the ordeal with those mean unions. What qualifications has his partner got in running an international airline. Or for that matter grounding one. But I'm glad that AJ "trusts him completely and doesn't talk to anyone about it". It could've been real messy if the partner spilt the beens to the market or announced a possible grounding prior to the AGM on 28th Oct.

The conversation with Willie Walsh is an insight to AJ's abilities. AJ states to WW "why do we run full service legacy carriers, because it's much easier running low cost carriers". In truth, AJ's strategy is running down the full service carrier. If your not up to the job, need advise from your partner or you can sleep so easy prior to deciding to ground an airline. Then maybe this line of works not for you.

As if grounding an airline isn't hectic enough. I'm glad to hear AJ got to take three weeks off over Christmas. "Exhausted", after grounding the national carrier.

It must be so tuff on the little fella, I don't know why he does it. Especially since he gets paid less per hour than one of his Captains.

[Sunfish]

Full page Qantas ads for cheap business clas seats out of melburne both domestic and overseas should tell you what is happening.

The puff piece is most probably a quid pro quo for a full page ad or Two.

[IsDon]

The article also failed to mention that Willie Walsh and AJ are related.

Not sure how close, but I believe they're second cousins.

Nepotism anyone?

With all the worlds airlines being run by Irishmen, and then taking a look at Ireland, one of the basket case economies of Europe, I think I may have identified why the industry is such a mess. It's all run by Irishmen who can't even run their own country.

[TheWholeEnchilada]

In fact, the pair are even family: Walsh's wife is a second cousin of Mr Joyce's mother.

SMH (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/no-stepping-back-from-doing-the-right-thing-20111030-1mqif.html#ixzz1unQnU6OB)

And who also locked out his staff?
A three-day lockout occurred in 2002 during the peak of the cutbacks.
Willie Walsh wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Walsh_(Irish_businessman))


Who also turned a full service airline into a LCC?
He reconfigured Aer Lingus as a low-cost airline in imitation of Ryanair, and began withdrawing from various services like short-haul Business Class and cargo services, and heavily restricting the airline's frequent-flyer programme,
Willie Walsh wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Walsh_(Irish_businessman))

What a series of "amazing" coincidences. Yes, Alan did resolve on the Saturday to lockout staff on the way to work.

[extralite]

If the plan is to asset and brand strip qantas dry to build and flog off jetstar to "sophisticated investors" hopefully it will be done soon and the carcass of qantas given back to the tax payer soon so it can be rebuilt. Flew brisbane heathrow via hong kong last week. Qantas was jetstar via sydney so that was out. Striking was the absence of qantas tails in all of those places where they used to be everywhere a decade ago. Tried to get a ticketing change at heathrow. Qantas desk didn't open until 3.30 in Arvo as apparently no flights anymore from terminal 3 anymore until then. Maybe just nostalgia but I seem to remember a lot more qantas and less finniar around the place.

[TIMA9X]

Qantas' flights of fancy

THREE fictitious Asian airlines recently conceptualised by Qantas have been given the all-clear to launch imaginary flights.
Despite Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce discontinuing talks with Malaysia Airlines in March over a proposed joint venture, the airline names RedQ, OneAsia and RedQ Executive Flyer have now been successfully trademarked in Australia.
Qantas is still waiting for its other fictitious airline, RedSky, to be included on the IP Australia register. It is believed the new airlines will have significantly lower operating costs than even Jetstar.
The Flying Kangaroo could always launch the mock airline RedHerring the next time it does battle with its Australian unions and threatens to move more of its operations to Asia.

Read more: Stockland adds another R to its strategy (http://www.smh.com.au/business/stockland-adds-another-r-to-its-strategy-20120514-1ymyt.html#ixzz1uthPj7DP)



chuckle :zzz:

[73to91]

QANTAS have been 'cute'



The Fijian government has expressed frustration concerning its negotiations with Qantas Airways Ltd over the Australian carrier's shareholding in Fijian airline Air Pacific, according to The Australian Financial Review.


Fijian Minister for Tourism Aiyaz Sayed-Khaiyum told the newspaper that the behaviour of Qantas had been "cute", and said the value of the stake was "...not worth what (Qantas) are saying it’s worth”.


The government has released letters and documents sent between the parties over the negotiations, and describing Qantas’ price expectations on the stake as “too high”.

The government said Qantas had been attempting to sell its 46.3 per cent share in Air Pacific back to Fiji for $F70 million ($38.22 million) for over two years.

Fiji frustrated with Qantas on Asia Pacific | News | Business Spectator (http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Fiji-frustrated-with-Qantas-on-Asia-Pacific-pd20120515-UAU7T?OpenDocument&src=hp19)

[ampclamp]

Good pick up Tim, "Red Herring", that is one beautiful line.:D

[topend3]

You knew you were going to be swapping BA half way through so you had a choice to book on someone else, if you'd read the itinerary it wouldn't have been a surprise would it?

[dizzylizzy]

The same contentious issue about code sharing has been doing the rounds for too long and no longer stands as a point of argument. Makes one realise how silly the average punter really is? Not reading ones basic itinerary? :D:D

[fishers.ghost]

Qantas in a changing world: quantifies refocused international strategy and limits capital exposure | CAPA (http://www.centreforaviation.com/blogs/southern-contrails/qantas-in-a-changing-world-quantifies-refocused-international-strategy-and-limits-capital-exposure-73238)

[Tankengine]

Mr Wobbles,
Your old man should complain direct to Qantas, here at pprune we know these issues but cannot do anything.:rolleyes:
He did have the option of traveling to LHR with Qantas [via Singapore],
only the Bangkok and Hong Kong services continue with BA as far as I know.
Perhaps the via BKK and HKG service is cheaper?:confused: [negating the "get what you paid for" argument]:hmm:
T

[Ultralights]

whats pissing people off is, Qantas website, qantas ticket, Qantas boarding pass, operated by Jetstar.

[Bad Hat Harry]

Joyce has already displayed his contempt for his revenue generating customers by grounding the airline and disrupting 100,000 of them.There is no customer focus.Its all about what is good for the company not the customer.Combine this with a total lack of understanding of how to run an airline and you have this total mess that masquerades as an airline
Customers:unhappy
Shareholders:unhappy
Employees:unhappy
Management:Incompetent overpaid greedy trough feeders

[ejectx3]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That

[Jetsbest]

It's an interesting point of view from CAPA, who can be trusted to parrot QF media releases.

Why is it that no one investigates the "$216M loss" claim? If it's that simple surely QF could just shut down International and instantly add nearly 50% to the annual profit based on last year. But it's not that simple!!!

To attribute such a loss in isolation, as if it's stand-alone, is disingenuous at best. For a supposed mathematical genius, AJ has shown himself capable of great economy with the truth (eg the $216M loss, evidently none of which resulted from the QF lock-out), and similar flexibility with other facts (eg he earns less than some of his pilots).

The Australian Magazine on Saturday about AJ, a lame puff-piece, confirmed to me that the QF spin machine is indeed influential and that if QF provide a journo a short Hong Kong holiday and a drink, he'll apparently tell the story pretty much any way they want.

I cannot think of another CEO less respected and/or trusted by their employees than AJ. What an inspiring and visionary leader.. NOT:hmm:

[ejectx3]

He makes Sol look like Martin Luther King.

[Race Bannon]

$1.48......the vision,the plan is working......to destroy shareholder value

[extralite]

Flew heathrow via hk not because it was cheaper, I was flying premium, just had some business in hk on the way. Tried to talk to qantas ticketing in heathrow to try and get some use out of my zillion qantas ff points by upgrading on my Cathay flight which is one world partner but qantas desk not manned until 3pm. I do understand this thread is not a qantas whinge though so apologies, just frustrated at how it's gone down the tube. My wife just cashes her ff out now as neither of us have opportunity to fly qantas much anymore and I guess il do the same. Few friends flying for qantas, hope for the best..

[standard unit]

$1.48......the vision,the plan is working......to destroy shareholder value

It's rumoured that $1.40 or thereabouts is the target price for Scrotum Face and his consortium's buyout.......

[ampclamp]

Well.... QAN market capitalisation as of today is roughly 3.45 billion.With roughly 3 billion in the bank ( so we hear anyway) the whole shebang, international , domestic JQ FF etc is worth less than half a billion. What a joke. Market values the entire QAN business at less than a few new 380s. :sad:

[simsalabim]

20% drop in share price in just 6 weeks. What's going on?

[QF94]

@simsalabim

20% drop in share price in just 6 weeks. What's going on?

Smells like a buyout.

Now that International operations have been made to look like a basket case and "beyond repair", watch the further downsizing of international operations and scaling back of domestics.

Forget this current government to do anything. Julia is conveniently overseas while her party disintegrates, and the vultures are moving in for the kill at QANTAS.

[Race Bannon]

If the value of the comapny drops below $3Bil and the cash at hand is $3Bil any buy out would be self funding...or thats the way it seems ?

[Swimbetweentheflags]

If the value of the comapny drops below $3Bil and the cash at hand is $3Bil any buy out would be self funding...or thats the way it seems ?
A buy out would also inherit the debt they owe, which looking at the latest balance sheet is around 3.7B and growing :hmm:

[PPRuNeUser0198]

Did everyone not see EK's (did not pay staff a bonus) or SQ's financial results...

I suggest you do - that might explain why Qantas is slipping.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Latest International travel stats paint a very different story of that we may read in the papers about the poor struggling airline.

Passengers Carried ('000) March 2012 - 511 (March 2012) 485 (March 2011) up 5.4%

Revenue Passenger Kilometres (m) 4,382 (March 2012) 4,100 (March 2011) up 6.9%

Available Seat Kilometres (m) 5,325 (March 2012) 5,317 (March 2011) up 0.1%

Revenue Seat Factor (%) 82.3 (March 2012) 77.1 (March 2011) up 5.2 pts

[73to91]

Further to what T-Vasis stated,



Singapore Airlines will cease flights to Athens and Abu Dhabi in a further
sign that the the world's economy is being pulled down by the Greek financial, political and social crisis.

The airline cited "the sustained weak performance of both routes" as the reason for pulling out.



Read more: Air pressure: Singapore Airlines scraps routes due to weak demand (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/air-pressure-singapore-airlines-scraps-routes-due-to-weak-demand-20120517-1ys6o.html#ixzz1v7b1wK3t)

[stubby jumbo]

Flew PER-SYD on Tuesday afternoon on a brand spanking new DJ- A330 (second operational sector).
Great product-IFE worked.
Good food
Fantastic seats
Warm, engaging crew.
Pax are loving it.

JB is doing the opposite to AJ and it certainly shows.:ok:

I'm a convert. Lets see what happens to the 65% ...line in sand now.

[limelight]

The SQ Singapore- Athens route was always suspect, I did it last year and the crew loved it, as it was not daily they got a great stopover for 2-3 days.
Plus the fact it was not a business route, the front cabin was empty when I flew. Great for Scoot, or an all economy comfortable airline.(there is a challenge)!.

[ejectx3]

I wish qf staff could get staff travel on virgin....

Top companies to work for 2012

Top 20 companies
1. Newcrest Mining
2. ABC
3. Virgin Blue
4. GHD
5. Wesfarmers
6. Cadbury Schweppes
7. BAE Systems
8. Rio Tinto
9. IBM
10. Australian Leisure & Hospitality Group
11. Pilbara Iron
12. BHP
13. Nestle
14. Coca-Cola Amatil
15. KPMG
16. Computershare
17. Deloitte
18. Toyota
19. Woodside Petroleum
20. PWC


Last year QANTAS was #2

Well done AJ

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/worklife/newcrest-mining-named-most-attractive-employer-to-work-for-in-randstad-awards/story-e6frfm9r-1226359118092#ixzz1v8gHIeyp

[Anulus Filler]

I guess AJ's mission is complete. Why would you make it an attractive place to work when retrenchments are on?

[Ngineer]

Last year QANTAS was #2


Go figure...

I wish qf staff could get staff travel on virgin....


Couldn't agree more. I travelled with them last year. The difference is chalk and cheese. Any QF employee who can afford to should give them a go to see what the competition is boasting (AJ included).

John really has his head screwed on right. When you ditch valuable business and customers it only strengthens your competition.

[Bagus]

The management in qantas has been spending months in how to shut bases and retrenched employees instead of winning their customers back and qf shareholders must be dumb,deaf and blind.

[simsalabim]

On the contrary Bagus .I think the major shareholders are complicit in the dirty little plan.
The largest Qantas shareholder—with 22.72 percent of the company—is J. P. Morgan .The second largest is HSBC with 18.91 percent. Next is National Nominees with an 18.26 percent stake. The fourth largest is Citicorp.
The biggest 20 shareholders control 80.3 percent of total voting shares, and that just the top four, a group of major global financial conglomerates, hold over 70 percent.
Qantas is an example of how the most powerful financial interests exert sway over the economy. Just 240 of the company’s 133,392 shareholders own 82.49 percent of the stock.
Investment funds are also among the largest shareholder of Australia’s four major banks, the Commonwealth Bank, National Australia Bank, Westpac Bank and ANZ Bank, which in turn are large shareholders of the investment funds.
J. P. Morgan is also one of the top four shareholders of BHP-Billiton and Rio Tinto. This web of interconnections guarantees that the executives of QF serve as the direct representatives of finance and carry out their dictates. They move seamlessly between different companies, serving the same essential masters. Leigh Clifford previously CEO of Rio Tinto. The other board members include former executives of the banks, mining conglomerates, industrial companies and global equity funds, as well as retired military chief General Peter Cosgrove, who commanded the neo-colonial Australian intervention into East Timor in 1999.
JPMorgan is more than big enough to absorb the continuing underperformance of QF stock. The bank made $19 billion last year.The QF exercise is merely short term insignificant hiccup tolerated with a view to the bigger picture, the destruction of the national icon and organised labour in Australia .It will be repaid later by the sweat of the shackled classes.
Share price today is $1.445 .They must be salivating in the boardroom and at the Bellevue Hotel . The Veuve Cliquot must surely be on the ice.

[teresa green]

Must say flying Virgin irritates me, whats with all this pally wally business from people you don't even know. The best flight I have had in the last 12 months was to Japan (NRT) in star class on JQ. CC were excellent, seats were comfortable, food was very good (where do they get those meat pies, never had one like it before) and the flight deck comments were informative and up to date. Same coming back to the Goldie, different crew, but kind and helpful. Definitely better than QF J class, where the staff were bored, the food was good, but being on staff travel, the staff made little effort with us. So different to JQ.

[DrPepz]

"HSBC Nominees" and "JP Morgan Nominees" etc are not necessarily HSBC and JP Morgan themselves. They are holding the shares on behalf of other institutional investors or individual shareholders. It would be interesting to find out who they are. However, any related party transactions have to be reported to the ASX, even if they are just "nominees"

[Hugh Gorgen]

Being a rumour network, allow me to indulge!

Anyone else heard the rumour that Boeing contacted Qantas recently with the following question...

"Hey Quantarse, reference the 787, we need to know what colour to paint the airframe and what configuration to fitout the cabin in. Make a friggin decision."

The response was a quiet whisper: " Qantas red and white!"

[...still single]

Being a rumour network, allow me to indulge!

Anyone else heard the rumour that Boeing contacted Qantas recently with the following question...

"Hey Quantarse, reference the 787, we need to know what colour to paint the airframe and what configuration to fitout the cabin in. Make a friggin decision."

The response was a quiet whisper: " Qantas red and white!"

"... and in little letters, up the back, 'Operated by Jetstar.'"

[psycho joe]

[QUOTE]"... and in little letters, up the back, 'Operated by Jetstar.'"[QUOTE]...a subsidiary of the company formerly known as redQ.

...which owns all rights to Bangladesh Q

...which continues to operate under the trade name *QANTAS.

...*note: the word "QANTAS" in no way implies ties with Queensland or Northern Territory, Aerial service is neither implied. The QANTAS logo and trademark are wholly owned by *Boston Consulting.

...*Boston consulting is a wholly owned subsidiary of the people's republic of China.



.

[mohikan]

There are a couple of junior B767 captains - pole smoking company men - who are telling all and sundry that 'The Company wants to do a deal with AIPA over the B787, its going to happen soon !!!!"

They are smoking drugs.

JQ pilots have an email from their management which categorically states the B787 will be based in Sin and not flown by Australians.

Wake up and smell the coffee. We are all hosed.

[TIMA9X]

JQ pilots have an email from their management which categorically states the B787 will be based in Sin and not flown by Australians.

Wake up and smell the coffee. We are all hosed. or

Being a rumour network, allow me to indulge!

Anyone else heard the rumour that Boeing contacted Qantas recently with the following question...

"Hey Quantarse, reference the 787, we need to know what colour to paint the airframe and what configuration to fitout the cabin in. Make a friggin decision."

The response was a quiet whisper: " Qantas red and white!" Let's hope the latter turns out to be the case, it's a no brainer, not sure if the regular premium punters would like this kind of "new spirit" image direction for Qantas mainline... it doesn't fit, and a risky business decision in my view.. it has a real chance of backfiring. Australians are comfortable with Australian pilots, always have been..

It makes sense to have the B787 go to Q mainline first.. just a classic feel good for all concerned, everyone is a winner..

The regular premium pax choose to fly Qantas because it is Qantas as they know it.. hell, it is still a great J class product .. Y class is still better than average, (my thoughts casting back on some competition products tested over the past few years).. I still regard Qantas up there with the best long haul, the older 744s are fine, with character, most people in the know accept that.


I understand the new 744 refits are getting the thumbs up! :ok:

Positive stuff for a change and a great vibe attached to this video produced by Qantas for youtube ... its fresh... :D (I can't believe I just wrote that)




O0AknMRlvoM



The last few years have been bad for all of us, we live in uncertain times.. Jeez it would be nice if I woke up tomorrow and herd on the radio when starting the car,

Alan Joyce makes new deal with Qantas pilots to fly the first 787 with a roo on the tail...

Positive vibe, everybody is happy..

[Sunfish]

You are about to endure a worldwide financial cataclysm.

That will result in a wave of nationalism not seen since 1914. The Qantasia strategy will be seen as the farce it is. You are Australian? You fly on an Australian airline, period. Chinese? Same same.

Qantas will not survive unless it maintains, overhauls or repairs EVERYTHING it requires in Australia.

By the beginning of 2013, protectionism will no longer be a dirty word. The Australian mining boom will be imploding and with it the Australian two speed economy. House prices need to come down at least Thirty percent - which they will, as interest rates head towards Ten percent because Australia will be fighting to finance itself as foreign investment dries up.

The stupid smartass American pundits currently laughing at Europe and the Greeks will be crying their eyes out because the American banks have huge exposure to Europe. Singapore also has huge exposure to Europe via its financial investments and China will be dealing with internal problems.

Gold will double in value by any measure and worldwide inflation will skyrocket.

The price of Australian labour will suddenly be looking very very attractive, especially for the airlines, because a lot of on - costs are actually deferred liabilities. To put that another way, when you get your aircraft maintained by Lufthansa technik in Manila, you have to pay CASH to get it back, not so with maintaining it here.

God help us all. Some of us have seen this coming for at least Five years.

[ejectx3]

And a good morning to you too Sunfish :-)

[teresa green]

Thanks Sunfish for buggering up my morning. Here I was deciding to either throw in a line sitting happily in Currumbin Creek in the family tinnie, or taking the dog for a stroll enjoying the surf and the fresh air, perhaps shout the missus some lunch later on, and you blog this. Trouble is I think you are right, we are about to be hit by a Tsunami, that will have far reaching effects, we have a govt. that could not run a pie shop, a mining industry which now is the backbone of the nation, relying on just a couple of countries to remain in the black, manufacturing up the creek, retail up the creek, unemployment on the way up (4.5%) pigs ar#se they are counting in people that might just work one hour a week, part time work seldom pays a mortgage, unions that are once more gaining control, think Teachers this week, BHP next week, barely happened under Howard. Then we have the govt. handing out money to those who are struggling to buy a new set of mag wheels, followed by a bloke who after inheriting the company from another tosser, decides to turn what was once the pride of the nation into Jetstar. Chuck in Greece, Spain, and possibly France, add the Illegal Immigrants who could not be far off hiring a ferry to save all the trouble, give them National papers and how to vote cards at the same time whilst they are still at sea, who cares if they are related to Bin Laden, as long as they vote Labor, and you wonder what on earth went wrong and what the hell are we leaving our kids and grandkids. I think I will just go back to bed.

[mikk_13]

Greece is about to leave the euro, the germans have been printing deutchmark. We are about to hit turbulence.

[stubby jumbo]

Thanks for that appraisal Sunfish.

Even though I nearly choked on my Fruit Loops.......this is REALITY!

A ticking time bomb is about to go off.

BRACE BRACE BRACE,,,,, HEADS DOWN ,,,,,,,STAY DOWN:sad:

[The The]

I think Sunfish's scenario is sadly what Australia actually needs NOW before we lose more and more industry overseas.

Relative short term pain will be worth it to keep long term industry onshore.

The eventual upside will see us do more than just dig up dirt and send it offshore, we might actually turn it into something first.

[Arnold E]

I think I will just go back to bed.

Probably the best place for you, but hey, watch out for them reds under that said bed.:ugh::ugh:

[theheadmaster]

Watched the reconfig video, all sounds great, however...

After all those toasted sandwiches and a couple of coffees what comes next? When nature takes its course, you will be standing in line for the crapper - the reconfig has 5 fewer toilets! :ooh:

[TIMA9X]

from Ben Sandilands Qantas may take its first 787s back from Jetstar

Qantas may have taken 787 Dreamliners back off Jetstar | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/05/20/qantas-may-take-its-first-787s-back-from-jetstar/)

Unless the plan falls over at the last minute Qantas will take the first Boeing 787 Dreamliners off its low cost subsidiary Jetstar which had been slated to get delivery priority to allow instead for some highly desirable if not urgent retirements in its aged 767 Cityflyer fleet.


The plan needs but doesn’t necessarily depend on long haul pilot union agreement, and given the toxic relationship between Qantas management and its ‘help’ in general the change of direction may not quite work out.
The current official plan is for the 787s to be operated from a Singapore base to save money, although as Singapore began to look increasingly expensive, there was some chatter about the Philippines.


Whatever the locational plan, the first eight or so of the 787-8s in the 50 Dreamliner order were to be delivered to Jetstar to replace its ex-Qantas and newer A330-200s, which would be bumped back into the Qantas fleet to replace 767-300s and which have in the main retained their more comfortable original Qantas configuration.


However it has become increasingly apparent in recent months that Jetstar was showing no signs of preparing itself to take the 787s by sometime in the second half of 2013, and it is also apparent that the pilot body is talking to management about something that could be important.
Which is why this post is really an exercise in connecting the dots and paying attention to a few of the stories that are in circulation, as well as this week’s demo flights visit by a Dreamliner, the third one built, equipped with passenger seating which is being hosted by Qantas.
A prior overseas commitment means I can’t make the flight offered by Boeing during the tour. Another time.


While Qantas has altered its 787 strategy a number of times to fit changed circumstances, as it should have, the essential plan seems to involve the use of the larger and more capable but yet-to-fly 787-9 version of the Dreamliner branded as Qantas on a range of routes, including some now flown by Qantas A330-300s such as to Shanghai, and even in one interview given by Qantas CEO Alan Joyce, as a replacement for the 747-400ER that operates the Dallas Forth Worth service.


Just what that service will be in 2015 or 2016 also depends on what American Airlines is by then, with US speculation about mergers with USAirways, Delta (Virgin Australia’s alliance partner) and United all getting prolonged workouts in the US financial press in recent weeks.


However the future of American Airlines and what it means for oneworld as well as Qantas, is another story, one even harder to nail than the Qantas/Jetstar 787 epic which had as its original curtain raiser an introduction into service of the ‘early’ -8s with Jetstar from August 2008.

The Qantas 787 order comprises, at this stage, 15 of the shorter, earlier, smaller -8s, like those that have ‘trickled’ into service so far, and 35 of the -9s

[FlareArmed]

You are about to endure a worldwide financial cataclysm.

The Chinese have an enormous capacity to support the EURO and, according to high-flyers I know in the finance world, have market-moving buy orders at key-levels.

Why? Europe is one of the biggest markets for China and they have a vested interest in keeping the EURO healthy. Buying many billions of EUROS is spare change to the Chinese but it supports one of their biggest markets and increases their political influence.

Governments constantly intervene to tweak currency pairs and the Chinese are known to be very active to support there trading goals.

[Keg]

There are a couple of junior B767 captains - pole smoking company men - who are telling all and sundry that 'The Company wants to do a deal with AIPA over the B787, its going to happen soon !!!!"

Haven't heard that one myself although I've heard variations of it. I've heard that the pilot negotiators and the company lawyer are keen to do a deal (on everything) but are being stymied from above- read Oldmeadow, Strambi, Joyce, et al. Have heard a couple of various that the company would agree to A330 or A330 minus a percent or two for the 787 contingent on a couple of other issues (not sure what the 'other issues' are). Haven't heard anyone suggest that the deal will be done prior to arbitration. Certainly anyone who has been to one of the recent AIPA briefings wouldn't be under that illusion. Have heard that pay rises and back pay may be agreed prior to arbitration- similarly contingent on 'other issues'- but I can't see that occurring. The company would be salivating at the prospect of a couple year pay freeze for us.

I'm wondering who these 'pole smoking company men' junior 767 drivers are. As I look through the list of junior 767 crew there aren't too many who would be considered 'company men' let alone the 'pole smoking' type. :confused: Then again, given how infrequently I work these days I've no doubt that I'm at least three weeks behind the times at the moment! :eek: :}

[Keg]

There were two recent rumours that add to Ben Sandiland's comments.

1. That domestic bays in Sydney were being measured up for a re-config to fit the 787.

My response is that this would need to be done for the A330s to return in sufficient numbers to retire the 767 as per the original plan.

2. That there are at least two 787 on the Boeing line in initial Qantas colours. There are supposedly also one or more in Jetstar colours also.

My response to this is that it wouldn't be beyond Qantas to pay for the aircraft to be in Qantas colours for a publicity shoot and then for mainline (international specifically) to pay for them to be painted into Jetstar colours.

I am intrigued at the apparent lack of action to accept the aircraft just 12 months away. I would have thought that we'd be looking at having a sim installed within the next few months and so on. I wonder who will be doing this and who will wear the cost of the sim given that the first bunch of aircraft are still (officially) slated for J*.

[Shark Patrol]

Qantas wears the cost of everything and Jetstar just makes profit. Isn't that the way it works?

[QF94]

Sunfish sums it up well. What the world needs is a global reset. The way things are going is not sustainable. You can't have an economy with little or no workers. You can't have a fair percentage of the population living on government handouts and welfare. When there aren't enough people paying taxes, the government ends up borrowing to pay the welfare and then ends up borrowing to pay the interest on those borrowings. A bit like being maxed out on your credit card, and getting another one to pay for the first one.

[Capt Kremin]

e). Haven't heard anyone suggest that the deal will be done prior to arbitratio

I think events may be moving too fast to wait for that process. The threat from VBA to the domestic bottom line may make such considerations secondary at best and more probably moot.

[Tankengine]

Kremin,
You mean after delaying for two years the company will be in a hurry for a deal?:E

[Wedcue]

Recent management movement from Jetstar to QantasLink could suggest that the 787's will be painted in Qantas colours, and operated domestically.

[Capt Kremin]

Tankengine, yep!

A week is a long time in an airline.

[mohikan]

If you understand the desired end game of Clifford / Joyce and can work back to the current scenario and it all makes sense.

The two aspects are:

1. The destruction of AIPA and the ALAEA,

2. The positioning of the airline for an on market take over, probably by a Dixon / Gregg / Coe led consortium.

Mainline pilots flying the B787 don't factor into that at all. Even if the currently remote prospect of a red tailed B787 does occur, it will not be flown by anyone on the current LH award.

I have sat through multiple staff meetings where I have heard Strambi and other senior use those exact words.

[ejectx3]

Wait....Lyle didn't menttion that at his latest feel good lunch. Are you saying he's not telling us everything!?

[Sunfish]

First French Bank is imploding this weekend.

Airbus parts may end up in short supply, as will finance for MRO's.

The Mortgage Crisis Hits France Front And Center: Are French Bank Nationalizations Imminent? | ZeroHedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/mortgage-crisis-hits-france-front-and-center-are-french-bank-nationalizations-imminent)

Should be fun on the Australian stock market this morning. :(

[bddbism]

Recent management movement from Jetstar to QantasLink could suggest that the 787's will be painted in Qantas colours, and operated domestically.

Are you suggesting the 787's will be run by Qantaslink?!

[Metro man]

The Chinese have an enormous capacity to support the EURO and, according to high-flyers I know in the finance world, have market-moving buy orders at key-levels.

The Chinese will end up controlling the world financial system one day. Look at the progress they have made in the last thirty years and project forward. Back in the 1980s if you had said China would end up bailing out the US and Europe you would have been laughed at.

[Wedcue]

Yes bbdbism.

They offer Dash 8 drivers the opportunity to fly a brand new shiny jet on pay better than they currently get on the dash. Qantas get Qantas Pilots now flying around Qantas painted 787's. Winner winner chicken dinner.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

There is no change to the B787 delivery program for Jetstar.

I would not read into Ben's article too much...

[schlong hauler]

So T-Vasis who are the Tech pilots introducing the new machine for J*. Whom and where are they? 12 months out and zip. Cant wait to watch this. Come on tell everyone what's really not happening. The lack of evidence says is it all.

[Mstr Caution]

Didn't Strambie write a letter to AIPA stating all Qantas branded 787s would be flown by Qantas pilots?

[Nunc]

Trouble is Strambie is management therefore cannot be believed.

[Ace Wasabe]

This guy has a checkered past

[WMUOSF]

Big statement.
Please explain.

[73to91]

Maybe the new chief executive of Qantas Domestic (Strambi) or the new Head of Qantas International ( Hickey) will have more say in the 787 branding ?

[Keg]

You would think under this new structure that domestic could justify the 'cost of capital' of 787s now. I wonder where they can get 787s from.

[MR WOBBLES]

Qantas management in big shake-up | News | Business Spectator (http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Qantas-management-in-big-shake-up-pd20120522-UJ369?OpenDocument&src=hp2)

[dr dre]

You would think under this new structure that domestic could justify the 'cost of capital' of 787s now. I wonder where they can get 787s from.

Keg, you've nailed it again.

We start hearing rumours about QF needing 787's now to compete with the new threat with VA domestically
It doesn't want them operated on the LH award
Suddenly there's a whole new business unit, QF Domestic
Therefore 787's being (initially) primarily domestic a/c, they are operated under the SH award.
Hey presto, arbitration no longer required

[rowdy trousers]

And reg is taking his bat and ball because of the re-direction of the 787s and no promotion for him to the mother ship. how does it feel reg?

[Capt Kremin]

Therefore 787's being (initially) primarily domestic a/c, they are operated under the SH award

Not if they are considered replacement aircraft for the 767 under the integration agreement.

[schlong hauler]

And therein lies the problem. Short haul flying flown by Long haul pilots on the long haul award. If we dont get smart no one will be flying the 78. The 787 maybe a replacement type for the 767 but Q pilots are surplus as per clause 15 of the integration award. What do you think the company would prefer? Long or short or perhaps shlong!

[Tankengine]

So are the 767 or A330 "domestic" or "international" aircraft?:bored:

Muppets, the lot of them!:yuk:

[goodonyamate]

In my opinion the 767 should already be on the SH award. Let's be realistic here. Sorry to the 76 drivers but if you're flying short haul, you should be covered by that award.

I'm also expecting the list to be split. Redundancies from long haul, last on first off, but the junior short haul guys will be left alone. Not possible you say? Qantas planes, Qantas tail, the spirit of Australia on the side, Qantas call signs, Qantas uniforms, flown by kiwis. Who thought that would be possible.....

Incoming......

[Short_Circuit]

So back to who will pay for maintenance on the 767 & 330, both fly Int & Dom.

[Shark Patrol]

but the junior short haul guys will be left alone.

This is a furphy. Nobody has been employed either long haul or short haul specific since the companies were integrated. Sure there are more junior pilots (seniority-wise) on the 737, but all new entry pilots into Qantas since integration have been employed under a common agreement that has been running for over twenty years.

[Stalins ugly Brother]

As I said in an earlier post, I believe the 787 will be flown under the SHA both internationally and domestically.
Rumour has it that BB was told this and told no 787s for JQ, apparently he had a big dummy spit and hence the present result. True/not true? Don't care...

I also mentioned the intergration agreement in a previous post but by now splitting the company, seniority lists and isolating the awards any past agreements will become null and void as opportunities to move to other "businesses" will become very limited. Arbitration in June and presenting today's revised game plan will guarantee this outcome.

My prediction, 787s, A330s and 737s (plus remaining 767) to be short haul and under the SHA eventually, and the 74s and 380s remain long haul and unfortunately left to wither and die on the vine, hence the eventual tie up with another carrier like Emirates.

I think redundancies are unfortunately just around the corner as well, but once the new restructure is in place. As mentioned already, they will be from the bottom of the LH list, but the good gesture will come on the 12th hour by offering the opportunity to transfer to the SHA (not that there is anything wrong with the SHA) and flying SH 787s and keep a job in the group.
Never a f$&king dull moment around this place. :ugh:

[Stalins ugly Brother]

This is a furphy. Nobody has been employed either long haul or short haul specifAic since the companies were integrated. Sure there are more junior pilots (seniority-wise) on the 737, but all new entry pilots into Qantas since integration have been employed under a common agreement that has been running for over twenty years

I suspect the seat your in now, and the award you are currently working under will determine your standing when the company splits.

[The The]

The integration agreement somewhat covers redundancy and effects about 800 pilots. It does not cover downgrading of longhaul pilots.

This means if QF int winds down, a junior 737 Capt can not be bumped back to F/O by a more senior longhaul Capt.

But, if it cam down to the last 500 or so Q pilots facing redundancy, then the integration agreement says a new hire (junior 737 Capt/FO) must be made redundant first.

The integration agreement doesn't cover de-integration. How it works in a split of the Company is unknown?

Contrary to this mornings media speculation the split is simply a reporting split, word is this is a real split like JQ/QF where they are totally independent (sort of)!

[SpannerTwister]

So back to who will pay for maintenance on the 767 & 330, both fly Int & Dom.

As I understand it, CN has said that QE will be "owned", for want of a better phrase, by "Qantas Domestic".

I guess that in (at least) the short-term Qantas International will pay Qantas Domestic for maintenance services.

That'll cost them a pretty penny.....Oh wait, more losses (on paper) for the International side of the business :ugh: !

ST

[Jackneville]

......and if this does indeed turn out to be a 'real' split and not just
one for reporting purposes, does that mean that there will be promotion
(what little there might be) on type ? as in 380, I doubt it.

[Sunfish]

I don't even know where to begin.....

Abrupt reversals of strategy are usually expensive.

[timer88]

Mr Hickey began his career with Arthur Andersen as a business consultant working in Sydney, Melbourne and London.Mr Hickey is currently a director of Air Pacific Limited, flag carrier of Fiji. Arthur Andersen was a notorious accounting fraud firm closed down by USA government.

[timer88]

I have been with Qantas for more than 25 years as a long haul steward, there are many more decent hard working people who have been with Qantas more than 30 years. Now we are at a critical juncture, incompetent people from outside Qantas have taken over the control of this great Airline where we build our lives. Now it's time to come up a way to save ourselves, let's start a discussion how to turn around Qantas, please join me, especially all those long served Qantas employees (world best pilots, stewards, air caters etc), please share your wisdom of experiences.

I would like to start the following two historical facts:
1. Mr James Strong,our CEO between 1994-2000, took the job of merging TN and QF and floated the Qantas on the market. During his tenure, Qantas expanded its network (China, SFO, South America), Qantas did not employe one overseas pilot, one overseas cabin crew, one overseas flight engineer during his 6 years tenure and Qantas made real profit as QF paid dividend every year during his tenure.

2. Using the labor cost in China as a benchmark, the wage cost of pilots and cabin crew in 1994 was probably 10 times lower than the wage cost of today in China, so economically, does it make more sense to outsourcing all those jobs in 1994 instead of outsourcing them today?

[The The]

incompetent rule the world

Give the guy a break, he hasn't even started the job yet.

He did run the most profitable segment of QF, building the biggest loyalty scheme in Australia forming alliances as a leader not a follower. Whether that profit was significantly by favourable cost/revenue accounting - who cares?

If he does the same for QF Int then it can only be good news and finally give QF Int a future which it currently doesn't have. Appears to me to be a guy with a lot of focus on successful results, not spin. Never know, he might even re-negotiate the QF owned JQ A330 leases. At least he's earned a chance?

Compared to the incumbent wet sponge who has allowed the decimation of QF Int and has now finally awoken from a coma after being smacked in the head by the loss of significant and exponentially growing corporate domestic business to Virgin (even JB can't believe it)? The one now being forced to play a profit busting game of catch-up to regain trust, reputation and market share, most arrogantly snubbed as a given?

Ummmm, not hard to see who has potential to make the most of a business, any business!

[empire4]

Timer88,

In no way am I trying to slam your profession, and you will not like what I have to say....and here comes the "but".

How do QF compete with wages of stewards in Australia to that of Asia? In 2006 my ex, a long haul Y class hostie, annual pay was $88K. She'd been at QF for 15yrs. You do the math. Introduce QCCA.

Pilots have a very similar pay however QF pilots seem to need extra sleep and extra pilots on sectors that competitors don't. Weather this is wrong or wrong is another debate, this is how a bean counter sees it.

Engineers have a similar story. Some paid way too much, others payed to little. Stacked on top is all the highly unionised overpaid low skilled labour QF has to use and the end result is higher cost.

How do you increase the profit margin to an acceptable result if you cannot raise the ticket price? After all, QF is a business which needs to make money.

[600ft-lb]

I think this thread is going to get locked.

But it all comes down to 2 simple things, that is there is so much capacity being dumped into Australia at the moment internationally that everyone is undercutting each other, past loyalty means nothing, everyone wants to fly for the lowest possible.

Margin has been reduced, non fixed costs are being targeted and staffing is the one that hits home the most.

The government is not interested in protectionism, justifying that more inbound traveling due to lower air fares will more then compensate for the loss of jobs that are no longer insulated with more jobs created in other industries like cleaners and reception desks at hotels.

Either that, or other airlines like Emirates which can increase and increase services to this country endless with no business sense at all, which in other industries would be considered dumping. I'm basing my assertions on the facts from BITRE

http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/files/International_airline_activity_FY11.pdf

Which shows Emirates average a load factor of

65% to UAE and
55% to New Zealand

which is totally abysmal.

Compared to the major airlines that actually have profit and loss accountability:

Qantas 82%
Cathay Pacific 78%
Singapore Airlines 80%
British Airways 85%
Malaysian Airlines 80%
V Australia 85%
Air NZ 82%
Etihad 81%
Delta 83%
United Airlines 84%

Draw your own conclusions from the facts, not many countries allow capacity dumping.

[Bad Hat Harry]

In 2002 total Exco cost was $6.7mil
In 2012 total Exco cost is $17.2mill
In 2012 the shareprice is $1.45 and shareholders have not had a dividend in two years.
Every time management reduces wages of employees they reward themselves an increase which inturn negates the cost savings just made from reducing employee wages.
As a total % of running an aircraft to LAX and back to Sydney the cost of labour is less than 3 %.If Qantas is not making money on this route then it means that their yierld managment is down the crapper
If the $A was trading at US60 cents the Australian workforce would be cheap.
Australia has become a safe haven for investors and this in turn has pushed the $A up and made our workforce appear expensive.The rest of the world is stuffed and thats why we seem expensive.
Back to the original question.Answer: get rid of the entire board and Exco and employ people who know how to run an international airline.
No one currently has a god damn clue

[timer88]

Empire4, a slave driver! read my message before you reply,( I would like to start the following two historical facts:
1. Mr James Strong,our CEO between 1994-2000, took the job of merging TN and QF and floated the Qantas on the market. During his tenure, Qantas expanded its network (China, SFO, South America), Qantas did not employe one overseas pilot, one overseas cabin crew, one overseas flight engineer during his 6 years tenure and Qantas made real profit as QF paid dividend every year during his tenure.

2. Using the labor cost in China as a benchmark, the wage cost of pilots and cabin crew in 1994 was probably 10 times lower than the wage cost of today in China, so economically, does it make more sense to outsourcing all those jobs in 1994 instead of outsourcing them today?


however, I do not have much hope to persuade people like you. Make it simple, let me ask you a very basic question? Shall we go back to slavery in order to be more productive and profitable? I mean let's make people work for nothing, does that make you happy now? Real Human wealth is created by advancement of technology not by slavery , a decent civil society should have decent standard labor law to ensure the working people can get a fair share of the wealth they create. Name me one country which is civil and wealthy but has no decent labor law.

[ramius315]

600ft-lb

You seemed to have missed the amount of freight carried by Emirates on these routes.

[600ft-lb]

Name me one country which is civil and wealthy but has no decent labor law.

All first world countries with such laws are having the same thing happen to them. 'Globalisation' ie transference of the middle class to the 3rd world, the skilled manufacturing type jobs that can be transferred, will be transferred. Until such point that our floating dollar adjusts to suit.

Countries like Japan actively push their currency down, other like Australia are hands off. Pros and Cons for both exist, its for governments to decide how they approach it all.

Labour laws, OH&S, minimum wages in countries will push up the cost relative to the Philippine's and when unrestrained capitalism comes into play you have a breed of management/consultants like today who see big bonuses in it for themselves to make as much as possible before their tenure runs out. It all comes down to someones huge pay packet.

[600ft-lb]

600ft-lb

You seemed to have missed the amount of freight carried by Emirates on these routes.

Show me some facts then, they are light on the internet in that regard only overall figures;

Qantas 150,000 tonnes 18.2%
Singapore Airlines 120,000 tonnes 14.5%
Emirates 82,400 tonnes 10.0%
Cathay Pacific 78,000 tonnes 9%

EK has a twice per week dedicated 777 freighter doing Dubai-Singapore-Sydney-Hong Kong-Dubai.

Qantas has a 3x 747s and 1x 767

Syd-Akl total freight for 2010/2011 is 59,000 tonnes or 7.2% of total.

4 flights a day @ 55% load factor from OZ to NZ in 777's and A380's, to account for a portion of the 7.2% portion of the total freight market.

I call that dumping.

[timer88]

1. Compared to countries like China, and other developing countries, people in countries like Australia and USA, are not less productive as all technologies are very easy to transfer to any countries due to the internet, the only difference is a worker in China producing $10 wealth, he or she only gets paid $1, but in developed nations, because of the labor law, the worker in the same situation will get paid $4, only $3 difference? but that $3 dollars makes the difference between a civil society and an uncivil society. A civil society does not only know how to be more productive but also knows how to justly share the wealth with the working people who produce the wealth.

2. All Western companies can engage productions in overseas, but the law of all western countries should restrict them to sell those goods only in overseas, unless there are comparable wage standards between the two countries. Otherwise, we are building an evil economical system based on outsourcing slavery.

[timer88]

The whole purpose for those advocating budget airlines is to reduce the cost of travel, so more people can afford air travels. However, there are two fundamental problems as follows:

1. The main reasons why there is still not one major budget long haul airline yet are (a) As it burns a lot more jet fuel to fly long haul route than short haul route as it need more fuel to just carry the extra fuel. (b) therefore, the primary cost of a long haul flight is fuel cost, simply it will make little difference if you try to save on the cost of labor, airport charges and other non-fuel costs.

2. One very important thing which most bean counters forget is airlines do not produce jet fuels, airlines have no control over the market price of jet fuels. The oil companies have the power to raise the price according to the demand for jet fuels. Say example, if every air traveler flies one more overseas trip a year because of the success of budget airlines, then the jet fuels demand will increase 100% and the price will be skyrocketing by say 30%, then you do not need an accounting degree to know how the hell the budget airlines can make a cent?

3. Unless airplanes can fly using water as fuel, then the whole idea of Jetstar will remain as a fantasy of a retarded. At least, BB wakes up to this reality and swaps his water dream with a cream dream, now the lady star JH steps in his role to be the CEO of flying with water.

[Plazbot]

Which shows Emirates average a load factor of

65% to UAE and
55% to New Zealand

Are we reading the same stats?

[600ft-lb]

Plazbot

http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/files/International_airline_activity_FY11.pdf

TABLE 3 AIRLINE PASSENGER CAPACITY AND UTILISATION TO AND FROM AUSTRALIA BY OPERATOR: Year ended June 2011
Emirates (f) New Zealand 1 453 298 592 541 410 55.2
United Arab Emirates 3 408 814 308 1 170 808 69.6

I admit, I looked at the wrong figure, its 69.6% not 65%. Still abysmal. Half empty flights to NZ, a joke.

LR 3

Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics.

[The Professor]

“The government is not interested in protectionism”

Nor should it be. Protectionism is what drove QF into being a monolithic sheltered workshop hobbled by high labor costs and outdated work practices to begin with. Please, not more of the same!

“As a total % of running an aircraft to LAX and back to Sydney the cost of labour is less than 3 %”

No, you will find it is more than 3%, much more. But more importantly it is one of the few costs that can be controlled by the airline.

“Australia has become a safe haven for investors and this in turn has pushed the $A up and made our workforce appear expensive”

No, by nearly every measure, the Australian workforce IS expensive.

“A civil society does not only know how to be more productive but also knows how to justly share the wealth with the working people who produce the wealth.”

Can you provide an example of such a utopian state?

“The main reasons why there is still not one major budget long haul airline yet are….”

There are plenty of budget long haul airlines.

“simply it will make little difference if you try to save on the cost of labor”

No, in the airline game, sometimes it is the ONLY difference you can make.

[timer88]

The main reasons why there is still not one major budget long haul airline yet are….”

There are plenty of budget long haul airlines. Give us the names of those budget long haul airlines, Professor?

“A civil society does not only know how to be more productive but also knows how to justly share the wealth with the working people who produce the wealth.”

Can you provide an example of such a utopian state? Germany, the only economically sustainable nation in Europe, major German firms like Siemens all have trade union leaders as supervisory board members. Supervisory Board - Siemens Global Website (http://www.siemens.com/about/en/management-structure/supervisory_board.htm)

The civil war in USA cost almost half of million lives to get rid of slavery, but the intent to use slaves is still well alive today in the minds of many like The Professors from CA, the only difference they know they can only exploit the slaves in overseas not in USA. the professor of CA, stop selling your evil slavery idea, it already bankrupt USA, stop ruining other nations. :=

[unseen]

USSR?

Can find it in my Atlas though...

[ANCDU]

timer88, i understand your frustration but i think you need to realise that times have changed since Strong was at the helm. There is very little brand loyalty anymore (which isn't helped of course by grounding an airline!) and unfortunately the majority of people don't see travelling on an airline as an adventure anymore...but as a chore to get somewhere. Most people won't pay extra to fly on QANTAS, they see the cabin crew as old and rude, the ground staff as old and rude...and the aircraft as even older. Of course this isn't the reality but thats just the way QANTAS is seen these days. I think in a way its actually how AJ and co. want the airline to be seen.

You pay cheap money for a LCC you know the service etc will be crap, but at least you got a ticket for cheaper than it costs to park your car at the airport. Thats all most people care for at the moment. Is it wrong? Of course but thats just competition, the internet and the way people are these days.

Qantas needed something to be done, it is a rudderless ship at the moment, and i believe AJ is under increasing pressure to do something. The best thing at the moment would be a strong alliance with Emirates, It would end the capacity dumping into and around Australia, provide a big boost to domestic and give the airline a massive network out of the middle east.

It also needs a change in CEO, no airline can prosper in a service industry when the staff have the level of disrespect, disengagement and mistrust in its leader as exists in Qantas at the moment.

[K9P]

More companies = more troughs for more snouts

Bottom feeders greedily sucking the profits created by their once dedicated staff.

These CEOs jump on board an already fully functioning company and think that they have an automatic entitlement to massive remuneration.

[Terrey]

Finally some question being asked in the mainstream media.

Questions raised over Qantas's split CEOs - Business (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-23/questions-raised-over-qantass-split-ceos/4029578?section=business)

[Arnold E]

I have always wondered why these people think they are worth the amounts being paid. I would be really interested to hear from one of them as to their reasoning.:confused:

[Romulus]

Can you provide an example of such a utopian state? Germany, the only economically sustainable nation in Europe, major German firms like Siemens all have trade union leaders as supervisory board members

If the Euro goes down Germany is in a world of incredible pain, far more than Greece or Italy.

The reason for this is that German "efficiency" is largely the result of a severely deflated currency. The Euro represents a package of national currencies, the Greek Drachma, the German Mark, the French Franc etc. But because it is a single currency the natural market forces of currency fluctuation depending on the issuing nation's fiscal policies is severley restricted, the currency must reflect the Euro zone as a whole. Thus the weaker economies such as Greece have long had an effectively inflated currency as the Drachma would normally have fallen in line with their inefficiencies whilst the stonger economies, and Germany is certainly the strongest, have benefitted from a currency that is effectively weaker than that which they would have if their national currency, the Mark, was floated. In short, the Euro represents an average, those above the average get the benefits of an artificially devalued currency at the expense of those below the average who have to live with the consequences (ability to borrow short term thus creating a debt trap as well as reduced competitiveness making it hard to pay off that debt) of an artificially inflated currency.

If the Euro is abandoned suddenly Germany will be faced with a rapid and massive appreciation in the value of their currency, I would suggest in the order of 30%. All of a sudden those powerhouses of German manufacturing might and the general population will find out that those fantastic working conditions are no longer affordable because they simply cannot sell enough cars or electronic goods at the prices needed to sustain the businesses.

As it is BMW and Mercedes are outsourcing manufacturing to China and S Africa, if the German currency is allowed to float independently of Europe it will skyrocket and make outsouring production even more compelling with the result of increased unemployment at home.

This is the ONLY reason Germany is propping up the Euro, they simply cannot afford not to because a failed Euro will actually harm them far more than anyone else in the Euro zone. And as long as they can force the pain of austerity onto other countries they can keep the Euro going hoping to wait it out until a recovery occurs. In short, German support for the Euro is a given, all the poor countries should be demanding massive concessions from Germany because the poor are already screwed, they should accept that and tell the Germans that the bluff is being called. If Germany wants to collapse then they can choose not to support economic stimulus measures across Europe, their non support will make bugger all difference to the poor nations as they're already broke, but the Germans have a standard of living to lose.

Make them sweat and put everything on the line. The Euro has been an exercise in German dominance by other means, what they failed to realise was that dominance would always incur a long term collapse of weaker nations as they could not afford to pay their way out of the inevitable crunch which would have occurred at some point regardless of the current GFC trigger. Had subprime and all those events not occurred then sooner or later, probably about now in fact compared to approx 2009, the excessive borrowings of poor nations with a strong currency (i.e. the Euro members) would have come home to roost and the clear focus would have been on that situation with disbandment of the Euro as the only solution.

As it now stands the Euro might continue due to the mess in the USA taking a focus off Europe's structural issues. It will still collapse (unless all of Europe suddenly becomes very Germanic in attitude and efficiency and everything else) in the longer term and the pain will be all the greater.

The piper must now be paid, and the only people who have anything left to pay him are the Germans. They miscalcualted badly and assumed they were the piper to be paid by everyone else, the problem now is that they have all the money they can get, there is no more income for anyone else to keep paying them so now the German piper must pay the ultimate piper, the Eurozone, the very creation that they championed so that they could become what they thought was the ultimate piper, otherwise they themselves will suffer massively as the real ultimate piper fails and takes them and their investemnts down with it.

[ampclamp]

Interesting but...And the thread is about ??? Mods......please.

[Tidbinbilla]

Indeed. Back on topic, thanks. This is about the direction of QF - NOT a debate on the Euro zone.

I'm sure there are plenty of forums other than PPRuNe where you may discuss the Euro to your heart's content. :)

[hardon69]

interestingly very little coverage on this debacle all week in the mainstream media, all the networks, and sky news, seem more interested in who a labor mp might or might not have gone to bed with. Typical!

Shareholder revolt maybe? Staff revolt perhaps? We all know the managers are revolting.

[QF94]

I have always wondered why these people think they are worth the amounts being paid. I would be really interested to hear from one of them as to their reasoning.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

Not being one of them or answering on their behalf, it could be something to do with self-entitlement. "I run the show, so I'm worth X amount. If I can show I have saved some $$$ by cutting here and snipping there, I'm worth a % of the $$$ saved as an added bonus, then I'll go to the remuneration committee and ask for an annual review and bump it up another Y amount of $$$".

Their pay and bonuses are inversely proportional to the company's earnings. In QANTAS's case, the value of the company has halved, work off-shored, people made redundant and profits have dived (due to that pesky operation called International), but AJ and Co have had massive increases in their paypackets and now duplicating management with twice the amount of people to do the same amount of work. It is apparent that management practices over the years have become so inefficient they need to employ more people to do the job. I'm astonished they didn't set up a Management Centre in Bangladesh to save some money.

[newsensation]

And dont forget Mr Dickson who during his reign International became the lose making machine it is today and still paid himself millions

[ohallen]

This whole pay thing started years ago with the very first CEO who was paid a million bucks and it just escalated from there as each new CEO demanded the equivalent to belong to the "club".

Then they brought in bonuses that made a big problem even worse with many variations that dressed it up in a semblance of legitimacy with short and long term incentives. Great in theory but it changed the mindset of all CEOs and Board as to how to justify paying them rather than on actual Company performance via smoke and mirrors.

The fact is they continue at obscene levels and with little relevance to actual performance except by some remote link. In the case of QF if the Board was serious they would shunt the little guy on any bonus (and his job) because of staff engagement alone, but I don't see that happening any time soon when they are the problem in the way things are happening. AJ is just playing the game to his own advantage and probably doesn't give a ****e about true personal or company values. A bit like Federal Parliament, they just don't get the damage they are doing to the institution while they try to survive.

[Race Bannon]

It also needs a change in CEO, no airline can prosper in a service industry when the staff have the level of disrespect, disengagement and mistrust in its leader as exists in Qantas at the moment.

[bubble.head]

Well there you have it.

Jetstar to start Boeing 787 Dreamliner flights in August 2013: Melbourne-Singapore, Auckland-Singapore, Singapore-Beijing - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller (http://www.ausbt.com.au/jetstar-to-start-boeing-787-dreamliner-flights-in-august-2013-melbourne-singapore-auckland-singapore-singapore-beijing?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=promobox&utm_campaign=latestnews-articleleft)

Boeing 787 is going to Jetstar Asia.

[Fliegenmong]

Terrey, now now, none of that ABC stuff please :=

Mainstrean Media is the Murdochracy, and all that the Liberals would like you to believe to be true.

A balance in media is to be discouraged, try posting that on an Oz politics hamster wheel and see how far you get!:*

[Lookleft]

Actually the article is retracting a Jetstar Asia giving specific dates for them to be flying it. Although there is no guarantee that Jetstar Asia is not getting them first given the debacle with putting the A330 on the Singapore register then its no longer a fait accompli.

[ramius315]

bubble.head,

That article, more than anything, shows that the 787 positioning in the QF Group is no longer what people have thought for the last few years.

Somebody operating well outside of their pay grade has released a marketing grab and then has been forced to retract it immediately.

Added to the happenings this week, another sign that the 787 will be showing up first in Mainline colours.

[Dixons Millions]

Has anyone bothered to ring Boeing and ask what the 787 colours are?

[ejectx3]

Tried to ring Boeing with a general question the other day... Try finding a phone number! It's all email correspondence now. I'm happy to be corrected.

[sb_sfo]

kpae.b l o g s p o t .com

remove the spaces

Poke around that site and you may see some pictures

[Captain Gidday]

Or you might just waste a lot of time.
From the Paine Field Blog search engine:
No posts matching the query: qantas. Show all posts
No posts matching the query: jetstar. Show all posts

[captainrats]

Formal denial in SMH today.
First 15 787s to go to JetStar

[TallestPoppy]

Try boeingmedia dot com. The press office is always a good place to start

[73to91]

CBD
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/05/24/3323199/art-353-cbd2-200x0.jpg Onward and upward … people have to be given hope, says Virgin's boss, John Borghetti.



Viva la revolucion! The former Qantas henchman turned Virgin Australia chief executive, John ''Che'' Borghetti, wanted a business function in Sydney yesterday to know what side of history he was on.

''I believe in people power more than management power. If you have staff behind you, you can do anything,'' the Italian Stallion said about the spirit of comradeship at his adoptive airline.

''I suppose I'm regarded as tough, impatient, but, I think, as fair,'' he said when describing his own leadership style. He made no comparisons between himself and Qantas strongman Alan Joyce.

Borghetti said leadership was all about offering staff hope. Like being a mother or father. ''What do you try and do for your children? You try and give them hope,'' he told a Committee for Economic Development lunch. ''It is not different for a company, you have to give people hope,'' he declared.


Read more: The right staff: Che Borghetti powers up (http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-right-staff-che-borghetti-powers-up-20120524-1z7zd.html#ixzz1vpqVHjSS)

[ejectx3]

Joyce's response:
"I believe in crushing the life and soul out of anyone beneath me. Destroy their hope, security and livelihoods and they are yours for life. Keep them in the dark, threaten them daily and lie constantly to the media about everything is all I know. I learnt from the best, and remember if I wanted loyalty I would buy a dog, which I did, the a380"

[Captain Gidday]

Ejectx3. Classic! Love your work. :D

[rudderless1]

Truth is sometimes the best comedy.:D
Love it

[fishers.ghost]

May 25, 2012Aviation (http://www.eglobaltravelmedia.com.au/category/airline), Headline News (http://www.eglobaltravelmedia.com.au/category/2-headline-news)


http://www.eglobaltravelmedia.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/egtmedia92.png (http://www.eglobaltravelmedia.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/egtmedia92.png)The Qantas decision to split its full-service operation in two businesses (Internatonal and Domestic) and appoint a highly paid chief executive for each has come under fire from unions and some business analysts. The verdict of financial analysts has generally been more favourable.
ABC News examined the decision on its The Business program. Chief executive of the Australian Shareholders’ Association, Vas Kolesnikov, told the program Qantas was struggling and would “no doubt make a loss this year”.
A loss would be a major blow for Qantas, one of the world’s very few consistently profitable airlines. Qantas has managed to turn a profit each year for the past decade.

Full article: Qantas tipped to face looming loss as well as union anger | Global Travel Media (http://www.eglobaltravelmedia.com.au/airline/qantas-tipped-to-face-looming-loss-as-well-as-union-anger.html)