Cranfield Airport [Archive]

eome

22nd Mar 2012, 12:14

Hi there!

Next year I will be starting a course at Cranfield University. Since the University is right next to Cranfield airport I think it would be a crime not to make the most of this oppurtunity and learn to fly at the same time (which is something I've been wanting to do for a while now).

There seems to be several flying schools/clubs based on Cranfield airport. Which one would you recommend for PPL training?

Thanks.

Genghis the Engineer

22nd Mar 2012, 12:31

There are three schools at Cranfield at the moment: Billins, Bonus and Cranfield Flying School.

Billins is a friendly and relatively inexpensive, but small, flying club/school with a handful of aeroplanes.

Bonus is a large and well regarded commercial school, who can take you all the way to fATPL, and have a lot more aeroplanes, they are a little more expensive.

CFS has changed its name a few times over the years, and is basically Coulson Aviation of old. It seems to sit somewhere between the two in the way it's run. Personally I always found David Coulson rather hard work, but equally he is little seen on campus these days and they seem to be operating reasonable aeroplanes with sensible instructors.

I've flown with all three, and each have strengths and weaknesses. On net however, I think I'd recommend Billins for NPPL/PPL/IMC, and Bonus for anything beyond that. I'm not sure that I see real benefits at CFS over the other two players.

There is also a Thompson flying club there, about which I know little I'm afraid so I can't really comment - good or bad.

G

Airbusboy

22nd Mar 2012, 17:57

Having followed Genghis advice recently for my Night rating, I would recommend Bonus Aviation. Friendly, professional and nice fleet of Piper Tomahawks.

kesikun

22nd Mar 2012, 18:01

I would recommend CFS (Cranfield Flying School) after 40hours training to a PPL with them ... good instructors ,friendly staff. .. Always made to feel welcome. even when booked aircraft "go tech" they are always willing to keep you happy with alternatives :D

When you get a chance drop in and have a chat with them...

Bear 555

22nd Mar 2012, 18:09

There's also, I believe, the opportunity to train with the Unversity themselves (School of Engineering) to PPL - although it may be an expensive option compared to the others, with their Bulldog being more costly to maintain.

eome

22nd Mar 2012, 18:28

Thanks for the replies.

There's also, I believe, the opportunity to train with the Unversity themselves (School of Engineering) to PPL - although it may be an expensive option compared to the others, with their Bulldog being more costly to maintain. I will in fact be doing an engineering course but I wasn't aware they offered PPL training. I will look into it.

Most likely, for me its going to be between Billins or Bonus. I will visit them both at some stage.

Although I have no intention of getting a CPL does the fact that Bonus aviation does CPL courses a plus side in terms of the quality of their instructors and professionalism?

Thanks.

Genghis the Engineer

22nd Mar 2012, 18:35

I've done courses with both. I'd say that for PPL level training there's little to choose between the professionalism and quality of the instructors in the two schools.

Bonus looks posher (uniforms, gold bars on instructors shoulders, nicer building), but I wouldn't read anything particualrly into that - good or bad.

Best thing is just make appointments to go and see both, and perhaps get a first flying lesson with both.

Enjoy Cranfield, it's a fantastic institution and the MSc programmes in particular are legendary. Take any subsidised flying opportunities that present from the university! As well as, not instead of, doing your PPL!

Incidentally - yes I agree that the PA38 is a nice training aeroplane, and Bonus have a number of them which are all perfectly adequate for PPL training.

Billins have a C150 and a couple of AA5s. Personally I much prefer the AA5 over the C150, even if it is a little more expensive. Roomier, better view, better handling, better instrument fit and better performance. On the other hand, if you are doing things as cheaply as possible, then there's nothing actually wrong with the C150 which is an excellent training aeroplane.

For basic PPL training, not much to choose between the AA5 and the PA38; the PA38 is lower performance with a more basic instrument fit, but I really wouldn't let that worry you either. Both are great for PPL training.

G

eome

26th Mar 2012, 18:41

Billins offers the following package:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JAA P.P.L Package - £6299
Payable in 5 instalments:

£499*
£1400 after 3 hours
£1800 after 10 hours
£2200 after 20 hours
£400 after 25 hours

Includes 45 hours training, briefings, base landing fees & 7 written exams.
(£713 discount on pay as you go)
* First payment includes Pilots logbook, C150 Checklist & volume 1 Flight Training Manual for free

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know the usual advice is not to pay anything upfront, but the fact that its payable in instalments virtually eliminates any financial risk. To me it seems like a good offer. What does everyone else think?

Thanks.

Genghis the Engineer

27th Mar 2012, 14:16

I know Billins well and don't think they seem in any sudden danger of going bust, nor have then seemed dishonest to me.

But, I'd still offer the same advice I'd give anywhere - look at those equations and work out the worst case: if the company falls over at the worst possible point, how much money would you lose? Can you afford to lose that?

G

wsmempson

27th Mar 2012, 15:42

If you go down this road of paying people in advance (which I wouldn't, if I were you) please make sure that you pay with a credit card, as at least then you will have some chance of getting your money pack if the school goes belly-up. FWIW, this forum is littered with old threads about reputable (and not so reputable) flying schools and clubs going under, owing students loads of money.

Pitch+Power

27th Mar 2012, 15:47

http://www.cranfieldflyingschool.com/Documents/PPL_Training_Quote_C152.pdf

Here is some information on price at CFS
They have tried to include everything in the bottom line price. Bear in mind you should budget to go over minimum hours ( may or may not, but best be prepared)

At CFS you can pay each day after you fly, no money at all needed up front.

All 3 schools have their merits, and all very close, so I suggest a visit to all.

captain_flynn

27th Mar 2012, 19:10

As others have said, Bonus is a good flying school! I've flown a few hours in their 2 C150's.

Thomson flying club is now called Azure flying club. They are worth a visit aswell. A friend of mine (that is also cranfield ATC) works there and speaks highly of them.

Whoever you chose to fly with I wish you good luck with your training. I enjoy flying from Cranfield and there are certainly some nice people to meet there. :ok:

Sir George Cayley

27th Mar 2012, 19:18

Is the option of paying with a credit card available? Even if there's a small handling fee, the protection afforded by the Bank could outweigh the losses if the school goes into administration.

That said the demise of Cabair and others may have helped those left trading by picking up floating students.

SGC

Winhern

27th Mar 2012, 21:49

Have sent you a PM re Azure.

W

dwshimoda

27th Mar 2012, 22:09

Can't speak of any of the other schools at Cranfield but having gone all the way from PPL to MEIR with Billins Air Services, I'd go there every time.

I know they don't do the full range of training now, but a few years ago they did. I went round OAA, Cabair, Bournemouth and many others. The thing that sold me on Billins is that it is small, friendly (help yourself to tea & biscuits) but if you want to learn properly you will be made to do so. The instruction is great, and if you work hard, the flying / training becomes easier.

I think I owe much to Billins Air Services to the fact I now fly 757's.

If I was starting again, I'd go there again.

DW.

Edited to add: oh yeah, going since the 90's so business wise very solid. However if you wish to pay up front (caveat emptor) there used to be good discounts available for small block times - not the whole course.

poptones

28th Mar 2012, 09:23

i have flown with all three and personally choose Cranfield Flying School. The head of training at Bonus is leaving and they may lose their approvals until a new training head is found. financially, the talk in the cafe is that bonus are struggling.

the course director of the msc aerospace vehicle design has been telling all of us to do our ppl with cranfield flying school as they have a special relationship. having looked at the fleet, and counting how many planes sit on the grass line, i reckon CFS has the largest fleet now that cabair are no longer on the airfield.

the other thing i found in terms of attitude over the other two schools is that CFS seems to have an equal amount of women to men, and there is alot of disabled people flying with ppls etc using hand controls. this to me seems more inclusive then others and rather open minded. I started my ppl with billons but found the 1 instructor to look constantly bored and as if he would be somewhere else. the prices at CFS influenced me to try them and it seems, not only are they the cheapest, (including hour building - which I plan on doing) but they have a good team around them. I know what ghensis means about David, but you just get on and do you thing.. overall egtc is a good place to fly from and out of the olympic restriction zone.

AC-DC

5th Apr 2012, 17:08

I did my PPL with Bonus when David Coulson instructed for the CPL/ATPL and IR, now David runs his own school. David is a hard man with high flying standards and high abilities who flew the B29 among other, with so much experience one can learn lots from such a person!
Just smile when he vents or call 100 miles final, pick the important and the good and let go the rest.

pitofrost

5th Apr 2012, 18:57

Did my PPL last year with Billins and found them excellent. I would recommend them but a lot is personal preference. I did trial flights with Bonus and Cabair(!) along with a three axis microlight school (not at Cranfield) before settling with Billins, trying a few schools to see which is right for you is probably the way to go. Billins give you free sweets though....

poptones

7th Apr 2012, 09:14

at cranfield uni we sometimes get free sandwiches depending on the event. a few of us from the msc aerospace vehicle design course now organise our flight training on the same day from cranfield flying school and we always get given donuts, chocolate and now its easter, there was lots of easter eggs for everyone. mmm, chocolate. there was a imc student on tue who came with a big box of curry for people. anyway, we have been asked by the school to product test some new aviation equipmemt. the school always seems to be testing new equipment for companies that are yet to be launched.. which is nice, as we get given stuff to review. i got the airbox clarity gps and my buddy got a aware 5 i think, its orange colour. finshed my solo cicuits now and doing my 5th ground exam, flight planning. we did a trip to sibson to get cheap fuel. if you have yet to try landing on a short field, this place is exciting in lots of ways, trees electricity pilons to name a few was fun and the take off over the trees was good too.

Genghis the Engineer

7th Apr 2012, 09:53

Is Cranfield really recruiting postgraduate students who can't use capital letters or paragraphs?

G

sonicpana

8th Apr 2012, 16:05

CFS and Billins is your best bet.

I wouldnt be handing over any money to Bonus, their staff are leaving in droves, unsurprisingly since the Airport served them notice to Vacate Cranfield.

Genghis the Engineer

8th Apr 2012, 16:26

So far as I know, it was Bonus Engineering who have been pushed out, not Bonus Aviation. And I think that 3 instructors have left recently? Significant, but scarcely droves.

When I did my CPL at Bonus they never asked for a penny up front, and whilst I choose to fly elsewhere now, they were never less than totally honest and professional. I've seen nothing to change that view.

G

Duckeggblue

8th Apr 2012, 16:34

since the Airport served them notice to Vacate Cranfield.

If this is so then perhaps Cranfield will have a change of heart now Cabair has departed (again.....) Can they afford to lose two substantial customers?

mateymate

15th Sep 2014, 12:57

CFS most definitely,
The quality of training there is much better

Cusco

16th Sep 2014, 08:20

And sadly Bonus Aviation are long gone too.............

Heston

17th Dec 2014, 20:16

Didn't think there were any schools left at Cranfield now at all.

Genghis the Engineer

17th Dec 2014, 21:11

Billins and Azure are certainly still there, and I think at-least one other: CFS ?

The issues are all to do with real estate, and they're being argued about - but the basic fact of having aeroplanes there and teaching on them is not troubling anybody particularly.

G

mary meagher

18th Dec 2014, 08:11

Eome, this thread is actually PROOF that all us greybeards who say NEVER be tempted by "save money pay up front" schemes or deals or promises.....in the School of Aviation, that should be your first lesson.

Running a flying school is almost as good a business proposition as running a yacht. It is a large empty hole into which money is poured by enthusiasts supported by suckers.

Also, paying AS you fly keeps you solvent. You may wish to do some of your training in Florida or Texas, or Scotland, which if the Cranfield flying school has locked up your money, will cause you problems. Hold onto your cash and stay flexible.

Don't say you havn't been warned

piperarcher

22nd Dec 2014, 15:41

Seen on the Elstree website that Billins are moving in next year.

http://www.londonelstreeaerodrome.com/blog/index.html (http://www.londonelstreeaerodrome.com/blog/index.html)

Genghis the Engineer

22nd Dec 2014, 16:10

I was speaking to Richard Billins a few days ago. Apparently just after he committed to Elstree, Cranfield offered him a 5 year lease on an acceptable lump of accomodation at EGTC! It sounds like he's going to go with the opportunity and run in future from both sites.

G

A and C

27th Dec 2014, 09:41

For years Billins Air Services has run a reputable business at EGTC offering a reasonably priced product that avoids the hidden charges and loaded contracts that were the stock in trade of the former competitors down stairs.

It is good to see such a business expand to another location.

NOTE, I have no connection with Billins Air Services apart from having known the management for more years than the MD would care to remember !

rej

28th Dec 2014, 02:05

My son and I learned to fly with Billins Air Services earlier this year. His pre-payment plan is great value and his instructors are great. To hear that Richard is staying as his own entity at CFD is great news for Ppl training.

I hope that this apparent 'change of heart' by the aerodrome operator will see recreational flying remain at CFD.

mateymate

18th Jan 2015, 14:11

I believe all flying schools at cranfield are gone, apart from 1 or 2,
Cranfield flying school and i think Billins.
i know cranfield flying school have the pay as you fly scheme.
that way you only pay for what you do on that day and don't
have to give any money upfront.

so i don't know why mary meagher is saying "which if the Cranfield flying school has locked up your money, will cause you problems"
that is clearly incorrect information and a load of :mad::mad::mad:

mad_jock

18th Jan 2015, 14:34

Its not rubbish and it was a general comment about all flying schools.

Those of us that have been in the game for only 10-15 years havve seen millions of pounds of students cash dissapear with flying schools going bust.

Some of which were recieving similar posts as your own days before the doors shut.

If you can afford to loose the lot then feel free to take a deal. If you can't don't pay up front.

This goes for every flying school in the country/world

Cusco

18th Jan 2015, 15:05

Mad Jock's right:

I know of one poor sod who lost thousands when Cabair went t*ts up not all that long ago.

He moved to an alternative school only to lose a second slice of cash when that school went bust.

Last I heard he'd given up.....

thing

18th Jan 2015, 18:50

Sorry for the thread drift but is Cranfield worth a visit? Caff rating etc? Flown past it a million times but never actually dropped in.

TheiC

18th Jan 2015, 18:51

...so, in the long run a happy ending then. Perhaps he'll have a successful career in an industry that isn't going/hasn't gone to the dogs?

Genghis the Engineer

18th Jan 2015, 20:19

Sorry for the thread drift but is Cranfield worth a visit? Caff rating etc? Flown past it a million times but never actually dropped in.

It's a university with an airfield on the side, which at the very least makes it unusual.

Eateries where I'm often found when on site:-

- Cafe Pacific, next to the flying schools, basically a high quality pilot's greasy spoon - nothing special, but that done well. Typical lunch about £6.

- Cafe Bookshop, about five minutes walk from the flying schools - all day, food, pasties, baked potatoes, stunning cakes, good range of teas and coffees, browse leisure and professional (aviation and management mostly) reading. Typical lunch about £7.

- Cranfield Social Club: "home cooking", fresh made pizzas or salad bar 12-2: bar 12-late, basic but bi and friendly. Mix of university and airfield people found in there most lunchtimes and evenings. Next to the Cafe Bookshop, typical meal a bit under a fiver.

There are other places on campus - the Student Association usually do a good curry, but I tend to avoid as it makes me feel old.

I'm not sure if you can just walk in, but there's a little gas turbine engine museum on campus somewhere, and a few other artefacts - the front end of a Nimrod and 747 simulator in the atrium of the engineering school building.

The library has one of the best collections on aeronautics in the country, housed in a building purpose designed by Sir Norman Foster - and that you can certainly just walk in. It's a few minutes from the flightline, and easy to find.

Standard landing fee last month in my sub-1000kg single was £6.50, I think that training IAPs are £16 or thereabouts - more approaches than you can shake a stick at (but not a VOR any more).

G

thing

18th Jan 2015, 21:27

Thanks Gheng, looking for somewhere to go next Sunday afternoon. The Nimrod sounds interesting, my flying buddy has 11,000 hours on them, I'm sure he would want a look.

Genghis the Engineer

19th Jan 2015, 07:20

I doubt very much you'll get in that building on a Sunday, certainly not without university ID.

G

mateymate

31st Jan 2015, 15:55

@ mad_jock
seeing as it was a general comment about ALL flying schools,
then he/she shouldn't of used a particular flying schools name.
if it was generally about all flying school he/she should of stated
that instead of misleading people

soay

31st Jan 2015, 16:35

I know it's not the done thing to criticise misuse of language in forums, but ...

if "he/she should of stated" is correct English, so is "he/she of stated".

The verb is "to have", not "to of".

Apologies for any offence.

mad_jock

31st Jan 2015, 16:45

which if the Cranfield flying school has locked up your money, will cause you problems

"the" denotes singular school.

"Cranfield" denotes the place.

"flying school" denotes the subject.

if she had meant to use the actual title of a business each word of its name would be capitalised.

the Cranfield Flying School is a name.

the Cranfield flying school is a general term for any school at Cranfield.

If a business calls itself a place name and then function its just has to accept that it may be confused with any other business in the same place which does the same function.