Glider Tugging

[r44heli]

Am interested in becoming a tug pilot, purely for fun, and the flying experience. Does anyone have any experienes of learning and what it takes to achieve this goal?
I have held a PPL A for 25 years, tailwheel experience and also a few hundred rotary hours - only a couple of glider hours tho...

Thanks.

[ProfChrisReed]

This gets asked regularly. Most gliding clubs demand gliding experience, so that you have some idea what is happening at the other end of the rope. You normally have to be a member of the club as well, for insurance reasons if nothing else. Also many, perhaps most, tugs are tail draggers.

I've been tugged behind a non-gliding tug pilot when I belonged to a small group of experienced glider pilots, and it was quite interesting to start with. Some of the places he put us were less than ideal - OK for an experienced bunch, but potentially risky for inexperienced glider pilots. As the tug pilot gained experience he became very good, from the glider flier's perspective, but few clubs could have afforded to take the risk of using him before then because he would have needed to tug trainees and inexperienced pilots.

The general wisdom is that if you don't have some solo gliding experience, clubs won't be interested. There is usually a fair body of suitably qualified PPLs who would like to fly with the gliding club picking up the bills (though it's tough work tugging on a good soaring day, so I reckon the tuggie earns his or her "free" flying).

Also be aware of the increased risks. If I'm on the other end of the rope and lose concentration, I have quite a few ways to kill you while surviving myself!

Having said all that, you seem to be close to Lasham, the biggest gliding club in the country. They might have a need for more tug pilots, and are certainly big enough to limit your tugging to experienced pilots while you learn the trade. A visit might be sensible - if abortive, at least you could talk flying and enjoy a bacon sandwich.

[r44heli]

Thanks for your reply, and for the sensible advice. Maybe I ought to go and do a few more hours in a glider to see how it works in practice and get a better understanding from the glider pilots perspective.

Cheers.

[CookPassBabtridge]

Went to Lasham once and got a brisk "Thanks, but no thanks".

Think they get their powered pilots from their glider pilot club member population.

[r44heli]

Thanks for that - I have been told its not at all easy to get into gliding clubs, I guess there are lots of other semi-retired pilots who also like to keep their hand in without any need for an income.

[gpn01]

It's worth popping along to a local club to check anyway. Some places that get quite busy advertise for seasonal tuggies (where you get to fly quite a lot for a few months - often used for hour builders). Take a look at Glider Pilot Network > Classified Adverts (http://adverts.gliderpilot.net/?op=s2&sn=5) too.

[Prop swinger]

...and lots of gliders are owned by syndicates of two or more pilots. What would you do on a nice flying day when your syndicate partner is flying your glider? Winch driving, instructing or tugging? I know several glider pilots who got themselves an NPPL(A) purely to fly the tugs.

[r44heli]

Thanks guys for you replies. Much appreciated.

[cats_five]

Thanks for that - I have been told its not at all easy to get into gliding clubs, I guess there are lots of other semi-retired pilots who also like to keep their hand in without any need for an income.

It's very easy if you want to fly gliders!

[r44heli]

Yep, true - I can imagine most glider clubs would welcome me to increase their revenues by providing me with glider flying, but I like engines and challenging flying, that's why the tugging appeals.....

[BabyBear]

r44heli Yep, true - I can imagine most glider clubs would welcome me to increase their revenues by providing me with glider flying, but I like engines and challenging flying, that's why the tugging appeals.....
You don't consider gliding challenging enough?

BB

[r44heli]

I have every respect for the skill of glider pilots, and I know that it is a challenging environment to fly in, however, that does not mean to say I want to actually do it. I am lucky enough to be able to fly powered aircraft and helicopters and that is what I like doing.

[India Four Two]

You don't consider gliding challenging enough?

BB, It's challenging in a different way and extremely satisfying when everything comes together on a good day e.g. fly through a thermal on the crosswind leg after departure, plan a suitable turn and fly into the thermal again at release height, make a quick descent (allowing for engine cooling considerations) without touching the throttle again until short final and be back on the ground in six minutes.


r44heli,
Now in my book, really challenging was the dual flight I had in a Bell 47. I was doing quite well, much better than I expected but I remember having to remind myself several times to relax and not grip the cyclic so tightly. After 20 minutes, my instructor (who was handling the throttle, which really helped) suggested we quit while I was ahead of the aircraft. A good idea as I was getting tired quite quickly. Great fun.

[FullWings]

As said above, clubs generally prefer active glider pilots with not much power experience rather than the other way round.

This is because a) they have an appreciation of what happens on the other end of the rope and b) having a soaring pilot in the tug who can read the sky and optimise the tow in terms of lift (on tow) and sink (descending to land) can save the club a *lot* of money in fuel. Also, reducing the turnaround time keeps the aerotow queue happy and may generate extra launches that there wouldn't have been time for otherwise.

Having someone who has spent the majority of their flying time doing fully held off landings from relatively tight circuits, while keeping a good lookout, makes the training much easier as well.

[BackPacker]

I started in powered flying and am now doing gliding as well (solo stage, almost ready for my GPL). I can only support the position of the gliding clubs with regards to tug pilots. There are some profound differences between the glider and the power environment. It helps a lot if you have actual gliding experience, preferably a GPL and some x-country experience. Because as a tug pilot you're fitting in with the glider world, not the other way 'round.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

R44Heli;

I did a summer season as a tug pilot a long time ago and still do some at my local club. Both places insist/ed that tug pilots had at least a gliding Silver C, actually it makes a lot of sense as it means the tug pilot will have a good idea of where the glider pilot wants to be.

SND

[r44heli]

Thanks guys for your replies, I cannot disagree that it makes perfect sense to gain a gliding qualification to become a good tug pilot, but I would be keener to spend the money involved flying other things, so maybe I will put this on the back burner for a while.

Thanks once again all for the advice.

[Matty906]

Maybe an idea to have a quick check as to how many fatal accidents there were a few years ago with "tug upsets", which is when the glider get too high on tow and smashes the tug into the ground.

Did anyone remember a few years ago at Farnborough a couple of Lo100 aerobatic gliders being towed behind a Robin.

Now that did look fun!

[ProfChrisReed]

Maybe an idea to have a quick check as to how many fatal accidents there were a few years ago with "tug upsets", which is when the glider get too high on tow and smashes the tug into the ground. I believe all of those were caused by a combination of (a) inexperienced pilot, flying (b) a very light glider, on (c) a centre of gravity towing hook (as opposed to a nose hook). All the clubs I know won't allow that combination to recur. So far as I'm aware there have been no similar accidents since.

That's not to say it couldn't happen, which is why I have every admiration for the bold pilots who permit me to occupy the other end of the string. If one day I find I'm pushing the rope because of my wild antics at the back, I promise not to complain.

[MIKECR]

The only people to give me a near death experience at the other end of the tow rope were ironically the CFI of the gliding club, and an airline pilot. Its not always the inexperienced ones you have to watch out for!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

and an airline pilot. Its not always the inexperienced ones you have to watch out for!

[Thread drift]

You have to watch those airline pilots. I took a highly experienced retired BA long haul captain for a flight in the Chippy. We were climbing out of Liverpool over the Mersey, him flying from the back; "They don't go up very well, these, do they?" he observed.

"They do if you use the rudder", I replied, applying a bootful of left rudder to move the ball off the left stop in its tube. It went up then!

"Ah. It's years since I've had to use rudder", he replied. :)

[r44heli]

I would be interested in both glider and tug pilots stories of things that commonly go wrong, and how they are dealt with, if anyone is happy to relate?

[chrisN]

See your emails. Chris N

----------------

[mary meagher]

Hello, R44. I started in gliders, went on to convert a silver certificate into a PPL, have done a fair bit of tugging over the years. If you definitely prefer to fly something noisy around the sky, why may as well stick to that discipline....but the real challenge for me has always been the cross country in a glider; if you get it wrong you visit a farmer....no harm done. If you get it wrong in a power plane, its can be very expensive, and the thought of all that petrol in the wing tanks makes me nervous....

The whole scene at a busy gliding club requires tug pilots who are very very switched on. Some clubs are airtow only, others combine winch and airtow, which can make for exciting moments. Giving way to gliders has to take priority, and they can all come in to land at once! Eyes on stalks all the time a requirement. So sign up for a course at an airtow club, become familiar with the environment. It still won't cost as much as maintaining a private aircraft.

You want an interesting story? I was tugging at a competition at Weston on the Green; it had been Notamed and all that. Pulling up an ASW19, I saw a twin presumably climbing out of Oxford, heading straight for me. So as the rules of the air require, I turned right. The twin TURNED LEFT! Only thing left was to dive, and the glider behind me hung on throughout, which was the smart thing to do, presenting one target instead of two to the opposition.
The glider pilot said later he wanted his money's worth, having paid for a 2,000 foot tow.....

[ProfChrisReed]

I would be interested in both glider and tug pilots stories of things that commonly go wrong, and how they are dealt with, if anyone is happy to relate?

I've been towed behind a tug which would not climb, made more interesting in that we headed away from the airfield in a straight line for an alarmingly long time. Later that day I saw the same tug (still not climbing) veer off the runway line immediately after takeoff and only just clear a combine harvester. The glider pilot told me his intention was to pull up as the crash happened and thermal away from the resulting conflagration.

But generally the only complaint glider pilots ever have about tuggies is they are towed to dead areas of the sky, rather than the booming bit they wanted.

From the tug end, the big worry is the glider getting high and stalling the tug - this can be fatal. Glider airbrakes popping open on tow is alarming because you can barely climb, but the approved technique is to drag the idiot to height (I confess, I've been that idiot once, though only for a few seconds) and then leave him or her to work out why the ground is approaching so rapidly - this one is tedious but generally not unsafe.

Tug pilots get used to gliders being in strange positions - during my Basic Instructor training I was made to formate on the tug's wingtip while still attached and then return to the normal tow position. A bit of a jerk on the rope that time, but experienced tuggies seem not to notice their tails being pulled round the sky.

I suspect that much of what a tug pilot experiences would seem quite alarming to a normal PPL :}
I think Mary towed me a few years ago when I was visiting Shenington (Super Cub?), but I doubt she recalls the experience because I flew fairly well that day.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Why can't the glider pilot instruct the tuggie where to take them, on the radio? It seems odd to be at the whim of the tug pilot as to which bit of the sky he/she takes you to.

[FullWings]

Why can't the glider pilot instruct the tuggie where to take them, on the radio? It seems odd to be at the whim of the tug pilot as to which bit of the sky he/she takes you to.
They can, as in "go for the cloud at two o'clock", "head NW" or "drop me over the town at 1,500'" but on a busy frequency a continuous "left a bit more, no, right, stop there, now left a bit..." to follow an energy line through the sky is something best left un-communicated.

A good tuggie will do this without prompting, much like arranging to cross the edge of a thermal with other gliders in such a way that it doesn't conflict with them and allows the towed glider to sample the lift before committing to a release.

Some would argue that using the radio on tow is an unnecessary distraction but IMHO if you can't follow the tug while transmitting a short sentence, you shouldn't be there at all.

[MIKECR]

A lot depends of course who you have on tow. An experienced glider pilot will probably have a good idea where they want to be towed and will be more inclined to say so by radio. A lesser experienced glider pilot will generally be more reliant on the tuggie to take them to lift. I also find the lesser experienced or the newly qualified glider pilots will have a certain reluctance to use the radio until they get their confidence with it. It also depends on the type of lift - if its just a 1000' lob onto the ridge or a 2000' launch to the nearest building thermal or cloud street then theres really no need to be steering a course to the tug pilot. Wave can be a little different as the actual lift isnt always clearly marked. Quite often it will involve a long or high tow(sometimes 4000' to 5000') to contact it. In those circumstances there's more chance of communication between the glider and the tug. If the wave is working well however in a particular spot and has been for some time then obviously no need to steer the tuggie a course, just hang on til they drop you where they dropped everyone else!

A good tuggie is of course someone with gliding experience. Hence most clubs tend to prefer someone with at least a bronze or silver C badge. Some insurers will also specify a minimum gliding experience level for tuggies.

Tugging can also be hard work at times. On a good soaring day, launching can be pretty relentless. I usually stuff my sandwich and water bottle down the side of the seat first thing as there'll be no time by lunchtime to stop for a break, things will just be getting into full swing by then. Good fun though...many a happy day flying the tug. Dont do as much as I used to but enough to keep the hand in. I did parachute flying at one time too....not nearly as satisfying as tugging.....note sure why, perhaps its just that gliding is my first love in flying.

[cats_five]

A friend of mine joined my gliding club with a PPL. He still flies power but now he has a part-share of a syndicated glider he will get the tug out if it's not his day. He had to do tailwheel conversion and so on, and had his Silver.

Had an interesting tow when learning it, only one magneto was on apparently as the instructor & I got a very close look at the trees at the end of the airfield. Also had what could have been nasty the first tow in my own glider - not quite enough forward trim, it shot up on taking to the air and I pio'd along behind the tug for what felt like forever.

[longer ron]

I suppose we have all had some interesting tows.
In the late 80's - although I was a reasonably experienced glider pilot - it was predominantly winch experience.
While my then GF was doing an SLMG course I started helping out on the 'proper' gliding course and eventually the course inst asked me if I wanted to do some flying -'twisted my arm' and he sent me solo after 2 dual tows (I had done some previously).
So there I am sitting in the K13 on my own when the Tuggie saunters up and asks ''Hows your thermalling on tow ''?
'I'll give it a go says I !'
Actually it was good fun....the tug of course was an 'Ahhh Condor'
Good job it was a long flat rwy LOL

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I've never tugged, but I've done some gliding (winch site, but did aerotows on my initial course at Nympsfield). Parachute dropping I did for a few years and that can either be boring (too windy, sit on the ground all day watching parachute videos) or relentless when conditions are good.

I remember one day I'd flown the aeroplane out from Manchester to the club and woken them up with a low pass past the tower, landed, then sat on the ground all day as the wind was gusting 25 kts. Come 5 o'clock the free-fallers said "come on Shaggy, we're giving it a go". Well, one landed in the canal, another about 2 miles away... Mad!

Those days it was static line drops with the studes - there's few tales I can tell about that but it'd be off thread.

In the end the club was closed after a fatal accident (thankfully on a weekend I wasn't there), but by then I'd had enough of flying but being unable to choose where to go and when.

[chrisN]

Well, I inflicted my flying on a tug pilot today, being well out of position for a while.

It is a training/checking exercise we do, often called boxing the wake. Starting at a safe height (1000’ plus) while on tow, from a normal tow position while climbing – slightly below the tug but above its wake or slipstream - we eased down through the wake to well below normal tow position. I understand that this puts the tow plane well out of trim.

Then move laterally, well out to one side. Now tuggie has to use a lot of rudder as well as elevator.

Now move up to level with or higher than tug. Then across to the other side. Then down to low tow position, but still out to that side. Then back to dead behind, but still in low tow. Finally up through the slipstream again to normal tow position.

A good exercise in control for a glider pilot regaining currency after an 8 month lay-off. I don’t know if tug pilots enjoy this or endure it. Usually the instructor tells them beforehand that some out-of-position work will be done, but today it was a spur of the moment thing, and we had no radio in the glider so he only found out when it happened.

All in a tug pilot’s day’s work.

Chris N.

[r44heli]

ChrisN - Many thanks for your email - great stuff.

To all the other replies thanks also, its great reading, and maybe I will
go for an hour in a glider in the next couple of weeks to refresh my memory.

Wycombe is just up the road, and I do know a keen glider pilot who
has his aircraft based there.

[mary meagher]

chris n, Booker is an all aerotow club. In fact that's where I learned to fly. Since then transferred to a club near Banbury, and now I am in my declining rather than ascending years....

Can't resist another yarn. Instructor told me that this would be the last launch for a chap on an intensive course, and asked me to tow the two seater up to one thousand feet over the airfield, rather than the usual two thousand (actually, glider pilots, nobody insists you let go at 2,000, I strongly recommend you wait until you are in LIFT before you let go....the erks who let go at precisely 2,000 and find themselves in heavy sinking air, have just wasted their hard earned money).

However, on this day I suffered brain failure, and completely forgot the gliding instructor had requested the 1,000 foot tow, and after dragging it into the air, carried on northward without remembering to turn back over the airfield....got a couple of miles away, and at one thousand feet, the GLIDER RELEASED!
O heck! I forgot to turn back! There was no way the glider could get back to the airfield, not high enough and too far away. I circled above and watched events unfold, expecting to have to return and inform the club that a field retrieve would be required....
The two seater turned and headed back. Getting low. getting lower....lower....and in the way, our ridge....they arrived just below the treetops on the ridge.....and scraped and scraped and scraped away......and climbed, just agonisingly slowly, just just enough to lob in to the airfield downwind....(there hadn't been much wind anyhow...not really a day ridge soaring, but it does kick off the odd thermal).
I apologised and said how foolish I felt...the instructor said "Not as foolish as I felt when I pulled off at one thousand feet and realised we had a problem..." Cost me a few beers, that did.

[chrisN]

Mary, I am well aware that Booker is an all aerotow club, having flown gliders, including competing in a regionals, there before you started gliding, and before your own present club was formed.

I don’t expect to fly there again, but the OP, r44heli is thinking of going there.

Chris N (BGA Safety committee member, BGA Development committee member, past Vice Chairman and Exec committee member of the BGA)

[A and C]

I have no idea why anyone should want to be on the other end of a tow rope to a glider.

The idea is full of potental problems most of these would result in death.

As to the population of gliding clubs...... individualy glider pilots are usuly OK but get them together and they become very rude to any one who is not a glider pilot. I dont think I could think of anywere more unwelcoming to a powered aircraft pilot than a gliding club.

[thing]

? I would say 25% of the pilots at my club are powered as well. I've never experienced any of what you say. Depends where you go.

I've been to powered fields in a powered a/c and the membership have been less than welcoming also.

[cats_five]

<snip>
As to the population of gliding clubs...... individualy glider pilots are usuly OK but get them together and they become very rude to any one who is not a glider pilot. I dont think I could think of anywere more unwelcoming to a powered aircraft pilot than a gliding club.

Wow! One of my friends at my club joined with a PPL and so far as I know he has never been made anything but welcome. The people who are not welcome are those who take and never give. Those who turn up, fly, and never help at the launchpoint. Those who turn up, fly a club glider and never help getting them out of the hanger or putting them back. Those who never turn up for their Duty Pilot day. And so on....

Mind you most of the takers not givers seem to have skin like a rhino.

[chrisN]

The tug pilot who towed me up (3 times) on Saturday had never been gliding until last August. He is a commercial pilot, former FJ pilot and instructor in the RAF. Within 6 weekends of coming to our club, he had: been accepted as a tug pilot; gone solo in gliders; and bought his own solo glider.

Before towing me on Saturday, he had been towed up by somebody else to do some of the pre-cross country (“Bronze”) checks. In spite of his power experience, he has no problems accepting that gliding has some different things to learn and be checked out for, and he is doing what he needs to in good spirit. He is one of three (I think) power pilots who joined us last year after posts on this forum and elsewhere advising that we welcome those who want to convert.

If a power pilot finds that every gliding club he goes to is unwelcoming, maybe he needs to look in a mirror to see where the attitude problem lies. Ditto a glider pilot who finds power clubs unwelcoming. My experience when I have landed in a glider at GA aerodromes, farm strips, and even a microlight site, has never been hostile, often very friendly, though a few were not particularly welcoming – but they had not asked me to go there, I had arrived and landed when thermals stopped and I could not reach my original intended landing site.

Not all humans welcome strangers, even more so if they are “different” in some way. It is a human characteristic. It is up to the incomer to do one’s best to make such encounters as happy as possible. Usually it works if the effort is there, occasionally not.

Chris N

[Genghis the Engineer]

There is too much them and us in light aviation, period.

I currently fly old GA, modern GA, and flexwing microlights - in the past I've done a lot of 3-axis microlight flying, and a bit of gliding.

I've had GA airfields turn me down because I was flying a microlight, modern GA pilots decline a go in an old taildragger as irrelevant, had a very hostile reception for turning up powered at a gliding club (despite PPR, etc.), and seen a microlight pilot drummed out of a microlight airfield because he'd dared to get an NPPL and buy a light aeroplane.

It's clearly commonplace because numerous occasions where a glider has diverted into my favourite microlight club, and I've gone up with my customary greeting of "welcome to XXXX, kettle's on, can I help with anything apart from pushing your glider off the runway", the first thing I usually see on the pilot's face is relief.

And we should not tolerate it. In our own clubs we should stamp firmly on anybody who shows this sort of behaviour - welcome everybody, whatever they fly. Help them fit in, and when they screw up an break local rules, be nice about it, just make sure they know what they did and how not to do it again.

Equally, turn up somewhere different, and there's a moral imperative to understand that environment and fit in. We can all make the effort to do that.

G

[astir 8]

Well said Genghis

[thing]

And we should not tolerate it. In our own clubs we should stamp firmly on anybody who shows this sort of behaviour - welcome everybody, whatever they fly. Help them fit in, and when they screw up an break local rules, be nice about it, just make sure they know what they did and how not to do it again.

Equally, turn up somewhere different, and there's a moral imperative to understand that environment and fit in. We can all make the effort to do that.


:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


Why can't aviators be aviators? Reminds me of the Life of Brian where you get the People's Popular Front of Judea infighting against the Popular Front of the People of Judea etc.

[mary meagher]

Ooops, sorry, Chris N! meant to address the mention of Booker to the OP, r44heli.

And if you think glider pilots vs. GA vs. microlites etc is a problem, wait until you get involved in your local club politics! o dear.

I have a theory. In order to have the confidence to be a solo pilot, you are most likely to have a robust ego, and be of the male gender. Amazing that the human race has ever managed to cooperate at all, but we do. Nevertheless primitive emotions arise when strangers trespass on our tribal territory.....Enstone has been livid when glider pilots thermal away from the approach; any club running a winch operation wonders if the PA28 wandering through their overhead is aware we might have just launched a heavy two-seater and a braided steel wire is strung between it and the winch....the glider in such case has a very limited view because its nose is up in the air and the flight path near as dammit is vertical.

But we always welcome visitors from the dark side. PPR.

I have the impression that most power operations are commercial, certainly in the US of A most gliding clubs are commercial (that's why they don't usually let you fly their gliders x-country). To expect volunteers to do all the work in your gliding club....well, it is sad but true that a certain number will be too busy to help out.....amazing how many DO help out, but always the same old few. Perhaps all flying clubs should be operated on a commercial basis; the only sure way to get most people to work is to pay them.

In effect, r44heli, power pilots who have the opportunity to tow up gliders manage to rack up quite a few hours and a lot of takeoffs and landings, which to any pilot interested in hourbuilding has a certain value. It is not usually difficult finding a tuggie, they fight for the privilege....

[Piltdown Man]

I'm not trying to be horrible, but it's often not very pleasant being towed by "power" pilots. Their biggest weaknesses are an inability to read the sky and a lack of understanding of glider performance. They often have some "interesting" habits as well. To be one, you really have to be a "glider" pilot first and foremost and also at most clubs there's rarely a shortage of drivers. It could well be that the driver is an airline pilot, an IT engineer or (god forbid) a banker. But they are at the club to fly gliders, not tugs. So when your average (and I'm not say you are) PPL pitches up, he'll generally have little to offer so gets short shrift. However, as a gliding club member who glides...

PM

[A and C]

In my time instructing at flying clubs I had always taken the view that Genghis takes and have given anyone who wants to fly a warm welcome as a fellow aviator.

I started aviating in ATC gliders and would have liked to return to gliding, Unfortunatly the attitude shown to me has put me off the idea.

Gliding in the UK is slowly dying with club memberships falling and no new blood getting into the sport, from my experience I can see why people are put off.

[cats_five]

I started aviating in ATC gliders and would have liked to return to gliding,
Unfortunatly the attitude shown to me has put me off the idea.

Gliding in the UK is slowly dying with club memberships falling and no new blood getting into the sport, from my experience I can see why people are put off.


Membership is going up where I fly, and we have a lot of power pilots as members. Most are GA pilots, a few fly for BA, BMI, Easyjet & so on. Dunno where you went, maybe another club would be more welcoming?

[cumulusrider]

Aerotow incidents.
A couple of years ago. Busy aerotow queue. The chap with the cable was chatting whilst attaching it. to my glider.
Brakes closed and locked, up slack, all out. At about 40knts we lifted off and the brakes immediately popped open dropping us back on the tarmac - which closed the brakes again.
This repeated about 4 times before i pulled the release. The tug hadnt reached flying speed all through this.
No danger, no damage just my very red face.
Memo to self - DO NOT allow myself to be distracted whilst doing checks. Air brakes were closed but not locked.

[Caractacus]

I started on gliders did a Silver C conversion to PPL, became a Tug Pilot, joined the RAF, left the Service in the late eighties boom and eventually ended up in the LHS of a B737. I think the experience of tugging in a busy circuit was invaluable and the situational awareness was always useful.

It's certainly fairly dangerous - especially near the ground. I learned to be quite ruthless with the glider near the ground. If the glider pilot got too high then they were on there own.

As regards gliding clubs they are funny places and usually riddled with incestuous politics. Becoming a tug pilot means having a face that fits. Or, to be more practical about it, you have to able to fit in with how a gliding club operates - and they are all different.

I recall it being very political as to how many tows you were allowed to do on a given day. There was always the odd bugger would just hog the tug for most of the day only to be prised out with a lot of grumpy gesticulating.

Gliding and tugging were probably my 'salad days'. The pub crawls round the village pubs on a Saturday night were great fun too!

[mary meagher]

cumulus rider, been there, got the T-shirt! I was flying a 150 hp Supercub, with a climb prop, not bad performance. The glider was a K13. There was hassle and delay before the launch, we had been asked for noise abatement to choose another takeoff direction. So we had to wait for the winch cables to be withdrawn.

I was getting impatient and irritated. So made my own bed, so to speak.

When we finally got take up slack signal from the wingtip holder, I was not gentle. Bit of a yank, actually. Full power. Lifted off nicely like the cub always does, but rate of climb was NOT VERY GOOD. Possibly because we were no longer taking off directly into wind? T's and P's OK, engine sounded fine, and then, I looked in the rear view mirror.......

The K13 airbrakes had popped full open. I am towing a shed.

Now the BGA in their wisdom recommends at this point, the tuggie having realised the glider airbrakes are open, that you waggle your rudder.........!!@%&*!! No way Jose, my airspeed is below 50 knots, and we are staggering, you think I'm going to waggle my rudder as a signal? We were climbing, barely, just, and did get over the earth bank at the end of the runway, I carried on to 300 feet, so the glider should have been OK to land back, and by that time my knees are trembling in weakness and funk. So I pulled the yellow release. And still quivering, came back and landed.

But where was the glider? noplace I could see. Not on the airfield! The instructor of course had taken over when I dumped them, and neither instructor nor student realised that the airbrakes were open, they just thought they were in terrible sinking air.....and not until they were approaching the small field that destiny had selected for them, did they realise....brakes already deployed! So they walked back in through the gliding club gate. And the towrope was still attached to the glider. No damage, no injury.

Of course, I had to write a report of the incident. Managed to write the whole story, just like now, without mentioning that the tug pilot, the instructor, and the student were all women....never would have heard the last of it.

[A and C]

I see what you mean about Gliding club politics and that is part of my reason for steering clear of gliding.

One incident really summed it up for me a few years back.......... Quite late one Friday night the chief engineer of a gliding club called me, he had been working late to get a Robin tug ready for a comp that the club was running and had disturbed some flying controls that needed a duplicate inspection from another licenced engineer. He asked me if I could go do the inspection on Saturday morning so that the club had all the tugs avalable first thing.

So as the guy had helped me out in the past I showed up as requested first thing on the Saturday, as I walked into the hangar I was greeted by some bloke who in his best Anglo-Saxon told me that the club was private and that I should as he put it efff off.......... No "excuse me this is private" or other such polite requests for a stranger not to bein the clubs hangar, just a stream of abuse.

As you might guess I was half way across the car park before this idiot was told that he had in effect grounded a tug for the weekend and that he needed to catch me and eat a lot of humble pie if the rest of the club was not to find out why they were one tug down.

If this was one isolated incident I would have brushed it off but it is not, I wish I could say more about the latest incident but it might yet end up in the courts so I had better not say anything.

The thing that really gets to me is that what little gliding I have done indicates that it is a really fun sport, I just can't understand why these people have to play politics rather than enjoying the flying?

I have never encountered anything like this in other forms of aviation.

[IFMU]

I've been an active tow pilot in two different clubs in the states. Have not seen any of the politics described above. Over here it is just fun. Every stranger is treated as a potential new member or as a potential customer for a commercial ride. It is the kind of place I like to bring my kids to.

I was recruited into my first club as a tug pilot with no glider experience. They converted and taught me. It worked out good for everybody.

I have had somebody pop their airbrakes by accident. He was out to do a long x-c and was a bit keyed up. I thought about wagging the rudder, then called him on the radio instead. The orange went away and that improved the climb quite a bit. I had one self-inflicted loss of performance when I forgot to put the carb heat back in. I had an RS-15 behind the super cub and we did not climb great until I figured out my mistake.

I think tugging is the best duty in a club. It is all flying, and it is good proficiency flying but with a mission. Tugging (or towing as we call it here) has kept me in aviation when a lot of my friends have moved on. I plan to get the commercial glider rating this year so I can do ride duty too, but I will always tow. Instructing is in my future, hopefully I can teach my kids.

Our new home page:
Harris Hill Soaring Center (http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/www/Home.html)

-- IFMU

[Dan Winterland]

The gliding clubs which I belonged to all required their tug pilots to have at least Silver C gliding standard. Quite rightly so in my opinion. A non gliding tug pilot tends to give poor value for money, let alone lacking the situational awareness and anticipation of the movments of the non engined aricraft operating from the airfield.

I've done a bit of tugging and suffered quite a few missed heartbeats as a result. Personally, if I'm spending all day on a gliding airfield, I would rather fly the gliders. I left the tugging to those who enjoyed it more and those who were hours building.

[cats_five]

I see what you mean about Gliding club politics and that is part of my reason for steering clear of gliding.
...

What I actually meant was nothing to do with politics and everything to do with size and organisation - or lack thereof. They range from tiny clubs with 30 members up to one with 700 or so.

Gliding clubs are also usually rather sensitive about a strange face being airside or in the hangers - we have no idea who they are, if they are aware of the dangers, or might be looking to thieve stuff. Of course they might simply be a spotter looking for more G regs but one never knows. Your experience was unfortunate, but I image the chap who was rude had no idea who you were, hadn't been told to expect someone turning up, and was possibly at the end of a hard week at work. He might also have been the most bad-tempered person in the club but the only one that could do that particular job. That's the downside of volunteer organisations - it can be Hobson's choice about who one gets to do the jobs that needs doing.

[mary meagher]

A&C, I am truly sorry you have had more than one unfortunate encounter with the less tactful members of any gliding club. We do have our quota of rude or eccentric individuals, who unfortunately sometimes are put in positions of responsibility before we realise that they may not be the best choice...

If they were paid and did a bad job we could always sack them! Asking volunteers to go elsewhere is always awkward at best.

Which goes back to my point in my earlier post.....most power flying clubs are commercial operations.

A&C, actually you have posted three times about the rude treatment you have received at gliding clubs, and suggested that numbers are falling and we are all getting old and dropping off the perch as there is no new blood....
Of course the power clubs teaching youngsters to fly are doing well? how many have gone up the swanee lately? More likely with the recession biting, and avgas prices through the roof, only the wealthy can afford the pleasure of learning to fly. Kids who might attend ATC may also have different priorities.

[thing]

only the wealthy can afford the pleasure of learning to fly


Aaaaargh. NOT SO!! Only those who are wealthy and those who are not wealthy but don't smoke, drink, or have any other hobbies can afford to fly. Basically anyone in reasonable employment, and I don't mean 50K a year but national average or even less.

It all depends on your priorities. I get fed up to the back teeth with the 'rich men's toys' attitude, anyone can fly if they give up their three foreign holidays a year and the new car in the drive.

[Jim59]

The original question was...
Am interested in becoming a tug pilot, purely for fun, and the flying experience. Does anyone have any experienes of learning and what it takes to achieve this goal?
I have held a PPL A for 25 years, tailwheel experience and also a few hundred rotary hours - only a couple of glider hours tho...

Thanks.

The BGA's document
http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/clubmanagement/documents/aerotownotes.pdf
may be of interest. I think that it addresses much of the original query.

[astir 8]

If you think gliding clubs are riddled with politics then try any branch of the British Sub Aqua Club!

However to anyone who has been made unwelcome by a gliding club member, I'm afraid the gliding world has roughly the same ratio of d***heads as society in general and I apologise on their behalf

[ProfChrisReed]

I too am sorry about A&C's experiences, but that kind of rudeness is very rare in my experience. The worst thing about my club (Essex) is the risk that the CFI and I break out with a burst of ukulele playing. And we have a special scheme for PPLs who want to try gliding, so it's a mixture of good and bad.

Much more likely is being ignored, because many glider pilots seem shy of speaking to strangers. No idea why, but it's surprisingly common. Just march up to the centre of activity (usually some kind of control caravan) and say that you fly, at which point someone will always recognise a kindred spirit and show you round.

[thing]

If you think gliding clubs are riddled with politics then try any branch of the British Sub Aqua Club!

I think it applies to any club with humans in it actually.

[r44heli]

Wow - I did not intend open the old can of worms about clubs and their sometimes inane politics. Slightly close to topic, I have been a member of a couple of R/C model flying clubs, and they sometimes have extremely complex political issues. Some committee members seen to think they are god-like and run the clubs as if they owned them, when really all the bog standard member wants to do is go fly their aircraft and have a bit of fun.

I learnt to fly both fixed wing and heli at White Waltham and the club there, in my opinion, is pretty damn good. Great instructors, good aircraft choice, lovely airfield, and a good social scene.

Thanks everyone for the interesting postings.

[Crash one]

Quote:
only the wealthy can afford the pleasure of learning to fly

Aaaaargh. NOT SO!! Only those who are wealthy and those who are not wealthy but don't smoke, drink, or have any other hobbies can afford to fly. Basically anyone in reasonable employment, and I don't mean 50K a year but national average or even less.

It all depends on your priorities. I get fed up to the back teeth with the 'rich men's toys' attitude, anyone can fly if they give up their three foreign holidays a year and the new car in the drive.


Absolutely. I am doing it on a pension. Ex working class, not an ex stockbroker. Own a/c, LAA, 18litrs hr, fly when I like. X reg car which I'll fix as required. Wealthy my ass.

[MartinCh]

Some close encounters may look entertaining with hindsight, but all power pilots flying near or over active gliding sites must be aware of potential hazards. Same as skydiving sites, especially operations out of mixed activity GA airfield.

True, mishaps can happen and it's not just the open airbrakes stuff.
Canopy popping open at the wrong time, diverting the attention of surprised early solo pilot can easily cause accident. Just like the one I heard of last summer, while ago in the US, where the tuggie didn't make it.

I don't want to scaremonge, but whoever decides to do tugging, must be very cautious, especially with early solo pilots at the back end of rope close to grond and first 500 ft or more.

[squawking 7700]

I'm a weekend tuggie at a small UK club, being a tuggie has two extremes - boredom because no one wants a tow (although I'll fly a glider if no one wants a tow) or intense flying having to have eyes on stalks to spot gliders as you're returning to the airfield.

Tugging has been described to me (by someone with 20K+ tows) as the most dangerous job in flying due to all the aforementioned things that can go wrong.

There's also an emphasis on economical flying to maximise fuel and airframe/engine time.

Rewarding though when you have reasonable day and the Pawnee's fun to fly (in an agricultural way).

7700

[abgd]

Slightly close to topic, I have been a member of a couple of R/C model flying clubs, and they sometimes have extremely complex political issues.

+1 - never had anything to do with fixed wing gliding, but I was simply bemused by my 'welcome' at the few r/c clubs I've been to. And they wonder why the average r/c flyer is competing with Methusulah.

In general, only a minority of individuals are to blame, but in practice they tend to dominate.

[DeafOldFart]

I have enjoyed reading a lot of the comments in this thread...
As a Silver C / NPPL I am interested in getting the tug pilot thingy written on my PPL(A) when I upgrade...
Biggest problem is logistical! My 100kg body mass makes a K13 fall(?) into the non aerobatic category, so the more demanding exercises are a no-no.
Current practice is doubly hard to attain if you are one of but two club winch drivers, the whole Tweedledum/Tweedledee scenario threatens.
One snag about being aware of the best bits of sky to use when climbing in tandem, is simply that someone else may have got there first... and I wouldn't guarantee seeing another glider until it was quite close! He might not see me either, under the nose.... or tail.
Rules... high speed goalposts are making aviation quite hard to follow.
Some gliding CFI's have been authorising tug pilots for many years... but they are no longer able to do so under new rules.
So, I have to get a glider pilot licence, at least 100 hours P1 for insurance purposes, and taildragger time for the Pawnee.
My first solo flight 40 years ago was on a Rollason Condor, no flaps, G-ATAU
It was simpler then....
By the way, I worked at Lasham in 1998 as a winch driver/groundsman, and the sheer size of the place and number of members (800) made for a rather impersonal feeling, nobody spoke to me until I got fed up and wore my Silver C on my overalls.... lots of nice people there, but all strangers!!

[creweite]

Over forty years ago I used to tow gliders for the RAE gliding club at Farnborough and for the Kent gliding club using a Tiger Club Tiger Moth. The gliders were for the most part primary lead sleds, and towing at 50kts full throttle with the oil temp rising, the complaint was always that I was towing too fast!
But what a difference towing at the Nationals with high performance machines and experienced pilots! And what crowded airspace around the release zone!

[Jim59]

Rules... high speed goalposts are making aviation quite hard to follow.
Some gliding CFI's have been authorising tug pilots for many years... but they are no longer able to do so under new rules.
So, I have to get a glider pilot licence, at least 100 hours P1 for insurance purposes, and taildragger time for the Pawnee.
My first solo flight 40 years ago was on a Rollason Condor, no flaps, G-ATAU

The new rules are deferred until April 2018 - in the meantime you and gliding clubs can choose whether to continue the way it was or to adopt EASA rules. There are a load of CAA derrogations that give details. Insurance - well that's another matter. In summary you don't NEED a towing rating at present. Your club's CFI or nominated deputy (i.e. usually the Chief Tug Pilot) can train you and let you loose when you reach the required standard.

Some 7-day a week clubs are more interested in weekday tuggies with limited gliding because they sometimes have difficulties filling their weekday rosters. Weekends it is a different matter with plenty of aeroplane pilots with gliding experience.

Having trained tug pilots with and without prior gliding experience my experience is that most power pilots can adapt to the different environment easily if properly briefed etc., whilst some just don't have the aptitude.

[DeafOldFart]

There's a little difficulty with our little club... no tug, ergo no tugmaster, CFI is very probably not able to give authorisation should I turn up with an aircraft with towing gear!! Talk about small puddles, I'm the frog with the NPPL and maybe the only member in current power practice.
Under the old rules, 15 tows between tug pilot and glider pilot was a minimum requirement.

So if I turn up with a Robin DR300 of questionable vintage and a rope, is it gonna be legal for me to tow out of a field I have not yet landed on..... answers on the back of a matchbox please!

I spent many years at KGC, about 1985 to 1998 before it got political, then got a day job at Lasham! Anyone who flew Tiger Moths at Kent must have a close knowledge of the trees around the site.....

[Jim59]

There's a little difficulty with our little club... no tug, ergo no tugmaster, CFI is very probably not able to give authorisation should I turn up with an aircraft with towing gear!! Talk about small puddles, I'm the frog with the NPPL and maybe the only member in current power practice.
Under the old rules, 15 tows between tug pilot and glider pilot was a minimum requirement.

So if I turn up with a Robin DR300 of questionable vintage and a rope, is it gonna be legal for me to tow out of a field I have not yet landed on..... answers on the back of a matchbox please!

I spent many years at KGC, about 1985 to 1998 before it got political, then got a day job at Lasham! Anyone who flew Tiger Moths at Kent must have a close knowledge of the trees around the site..... I am still in touch with Glyn Richards, who has now moved to Stow Maries with the remnants of the Tiger Club. Maybe your name is legend....

I don't know where the figure of 15 comes from. The BGA rule for years was, "The sum of the tows made by the tug pilot and the glider pilot, in their respective capacities, shall not be less than six." So as long as the glider pilot has 6 tows under his/her belt the tug pilot needs none!

If the CFI is satisfied that you are suitably qualified and are a member of the same club as the glider pilot (a legal rquirement) he can authorise you.

In practice the sensible thing to do is go with your tug to a gliding site that does aerotow tow and do a few dual tows with one of their check pilots to gain/regain currency in towing as necessary. Whether you have towed out the the site before is irrelevant. Most tug pilots have pitched up at another airfield and done some tows - either on request or to do retrieves. Usually a briefing on the local area (especially noise sensitivities) is all that is needed.

[DeafOldFart]

As I understand it.... NPPL holders can tow gliders. Nothing gets written on the licence.
EASA licences have entries for extra items.
Unless the gliding club CFI is qualified to the new licensing standards, he/she cannot certify competence, the fees payable to qualify have deterred many suitable candidates from becoming examiners....
Come 2018, there will be a bit of a problem, and betcha the date gets pushed back again!!!
If you have PPL(A), you may have difficulty getting a towing rating, so you will have to get an NPPL to fly the tug...
Unless you have an FAA licence maybe??

The figure of 15 tows was a club requirement perhaps, the 6 tow thing is a bit of an historical item!! That was introduced after a few fatal upsets.... maybe in the '30's.
I believe our current CFI was given special permission to act as such at a single, winch launch only site, and has no power flying licence.
Aerotow launches have to be arranged on occasion for exercises such as full spin training, otherwise club members have to travel to other clubs for instruction! A tug and driver must be obtained, it would be easier to hire a tug for the day with a resident member flying it.

[Jim59]

As I understand it.... NPPL holders can tow gliders. Nothing gets written on the licence.
EASA licences have entries for extra items.
Unless the gliding club CFI is qualified to the new licensing standards, he/she cannot certify competence, the fees payable to qualify have deterred many suitable candidates from becoming examiners....
Come 2018, there will be a bit of a problem, and betcha the date gets pushed back again!!!
If you have PPL(A), you may have difficulty getting a towing rating, so you will have to get an NPPL to fly the tug...
Unless you have an FAA licence maybe?? Even if you have an EASA licence PPL(A) or LAPL(A) you don't need a towing rating on it in the UK before 2018.

Under current rules clubs decide who can teach towing. Under EASA you only need to have a PPL(A) and a Class Rating Instructor Certificate Restricted to teaching towing to teach EASA licence holders. Once the teaching is completed there is no test you just get the rating added to your licence. The syllabus is neither complicated nor long. Tug pilot must have experienced 5 tows in a glider, and ten in the tug - of which 5 must be dual and a briefing that takes less than a day.

To get my CRI(Restricted to teaching towing) I only needed a letter from my CFI stating that I already did it - he is not a power pilot. I got the ratings to tow based only on experience - using aeroplanes on my PPL and using TMGs on my LAPL(S).

It really isn't a big deal. The BGA did excellent work in persuading EASA to keep it simple.

[Prop swinger]

The requirements for converting existing BGA tugpilot qualifications into EASA ratings are explained here, sections J & K at the bottom of the page. (http://old.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/licensing/easa-licence-conversion-questions.htm) (This page was written some time ago, before the extension to the derogation; references to 2015 should be read as references to 2018.)

Basically:

have qualified as a tugpilot at a BGA club
have at least 30 hours & 60 TOs & landings PIC in the relevant class of aeroplane (SEP or TMG)
10 flights tugging as PIC at a BGA club

All you need to convert is to find an appropriate person (either CFI, club chairman or club secretary) to certify on your application that you meet the requirements.

The CAA & BGA have pragmatically agreed that pilots may continue to operate to the old, pre-EASA rules, even if the pilot holds an EASA licence, at least until Apr 2018. You can still fly as a tugpilot without holding an EASA tow rating, a tugmaster or any other pilot may continue to instruct potential tugpilots without holding an FI or CRI certificate.

[CISTRS]

A bit sad to see it all bound up in so many rules.
In my opinion one of the finest flying experiences was to be towed by a tug pilot who knew a thermal when he felt it. A tug / glider combination climbing efficiently in a tight and turbulent thermal is a fine example of trust and teamwork. This would only happen when both pilots knew who the other one was, and their skill level.

[mary meagher]

true enough. If you as tuggie know that the glider pilot behind you is well experienced, it is quite fun, on encountering a useful thermal at 800 feet, to turn in the lift until he decides he is fed up following you round.

If a winch only club needs a tug from another club, it is usually brought round by a qualified tug pilot. If the club has no tug, any owner of a towing aircraft would rightly be reluctant to let an inexperienced PPL use it.

As far as towing from strange fields, we would do it no problem. If it was a farmers field, I was very reluctant to let our tug retrieve a glider from anything but an airstrip. Bolder tuggies may do so, but get really pissed off if the farmers field turns out to be less than safe. Like boggy, up hill, tall trees, high crop, nervous animals, invisible phone wires, etc.

The average PPL needs experience, to be a good tuggie. For a glider pilot to be called experienced, really a silver c is a minimum. That's FIVE HOURS ENDURANCE WITH NO ENGINE, GUYS. Also gain of height, 1,000 meters from lowest point, and 50 kilometer cross country flight. Local soaring? you havn't really experienced cross country until you have landed out!

[DeafOldFart]

Thanks for your contributions everybody!!! A little information is seeping into my brain, I think....
A quick reprise of my flying CV - power flying 40 years, gliding 30, NPPL, Silver C and 100km diploma.
The odd thing about my power flying logbook is that until recently I had more years than hours.... kept running out of money! Five sets of exams elapsed before a really minimal hour NPPL.
As a full time winch driver with about 15,000 launches I have a certain understanding of gliding clubs!
And a lot of opportunity to watch tug operations at large clubs like Lasham.
A lot of my flying was with friends who were commercial pilots and instructors, who seemed to appreciate a second opinion and another pair of hands - these hours were not instructional, but extremely educational! Pity they cannot count towards a training total.
My cloth ears inhibit a lot of my activities, instructing is difficult if you cannot pick up the words of the pupil. Learning to glide in a tandem two seater was sometimes a bit of a teach yourself activity. My friends were those who shouted at me!
If you are a gliding club tugmaster, expect to see a Deaf Old Fart on the sidelines somewhere, seeking enlightenment......

[mary meagher]

DOF, is your gliding club restricted to winch only? you seem to imply that in a recent post; I know that Camp Hill, being in a national park site, and until recently Snitterfield, do not have permission for power.
I did sneak into Snitterfield once, to pick up one of our club members who landed out there....special case. One of our paraplegic pilots.
As it was a weekday and nobody there, we just put the glider wing on a handy hay bale, and departed.

[DeafOldFart]

Hi Mary! Currently launching winch only.
There is a PPR power permission, and motor gliders (Falke) have been based there.... a full time tug operation has never been applied for to the best of my knowledge!
On a few occasions visiting motor gliders have been observed to depart with a K13 behind them.... the strip is best treated as a rather one way street, uphill with a Robin into a SW breeze there's about 5-600 metres allowing for obstacles ahead, turning to clear trees takes one over rooftops! Downhill to NE 900 metres or so.... no contest!
More people should try winch driving... flying a glider from the outside!!!
It's kite flying with big boys toys, speed judgement is a definite matter of experience and feedback, sometimes verging on the obscene...
Got to go and mow the grass, have fun!

[CISTRS]

DOF:
More people should try winch driving... flying a glider from the outside!!!

Aaaahhhh...
The craft of winch driving. A smooth take-up slack. It's quite addictive, and very satisfying to get it right every time. Especially when you had vintage gliders and modern types in the mix - not visible on the wire until they were airborne.

[DeafOldFart]

Slightly off topic... I learnt my winch driving on a field with a bump.... a K8 would often be in full climb attitude before becoming visible!
Just like fishing, what we got on the line now then...
Sometimes launching gliders with no assistance..... or signals...
A 25 metre ASH 25 by feel alone was a bit of a thrill!!
About 15,000 launches and 30 years later, every launch is still a matter for careful consideration and constant assessment of speed, attitude and sound effects from the winch!
Thinks - if airliners were assisted by winch, they would need a lower number of engines.....

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Aaaahhhh...
The craft of winch driving. A smooth take-up slack. It's quite addictive, and very satisfying to get it right every time. Especially when you had vintage gliders and modern types in the mix - not visible on the wire until they were airborne.

Its fun to watch the novice winch drivers assume everything is a K21 and flinging K6's in to the air like they were paper bags. I saw this happen to the winch-master at my old club, he pulled off as he was going through about 70kts and used ground effect to fly all the way down the field, hop out and give the winch driver a rollicking :D He bought the beers that night.

[DeafOldFart]

Kent club rules said, before solo, learn to drive the winch.....
This was changed when it was realised there were broadly three categories of winch drivers.
Naturals, duck to water etcetera.
Diligent pupils with little feel for the art..
And of course those who should never be allowed near anything of such potential mischief!
The winch cab on the courses became a sort of finishing school, where the students could ask questions that might attract the derision of the instructor.... and also gain some understanding of the teamwork of winch launching!
I signed off quite a few winch drivers in my tenure, and also re-educated a few of the older generation who launched everything at 40 kts as though t'were a T21 - a K13 really appreciates a nice 54 kt climb....!!!
Also worthy of note was the whole solo flight idea, get out of the K13 and fly the K8. If a solo pilot bent the K13, nobody could fly.... good reasoning, but it meant I was in demand as driver for all the first solo flights on the wire!!

[hot2wot]

DOF
Ah, you bring back happy memories of launching T21s with a home-made winch (on an old bus chassis) with the Kent club. I was just a 16 year old summer course pupil who knew little about gliders and less about winching. The selection process would probably be called victimisation nowadays. The training lasted all of 30 minutes and after that being left on my own to sort it out and be gassed by the leaking exhaust under the cab. I seem to remember that the cable broke frequently but we all had a good time and I got a gliding C in two weeks.
Happy days.

[DeafOldFart]

I think I drove the bus winch in 1975, had so much fun I used to drive it as and when I was passing, didn't bother to join the club.... not a problem, as soon as another face turned up, the previous victim left in a hurry to cleaner climes.
The CFI was renowned for rebriefing winch drivers... on one occasion, he left for the winch in high dudgeon, but a sympathetic club member warned the driver of incoming angst... he fled, worked his way back through the woods to the clubhouse and acted nonchalant.... no name, no pack drill!!!!
CFI still hasn't discovered his identity after 40 years....!
Somebody better start a new thread soon...

Returning to my original post.... Getting the entry on the licence when it will become a requirement - eventually!
CFI at one club informed me he couldn't instruct and examine because he in turn needed a particular piece of paper that would cost him a lot of money.
Additionally, a Class 2 medical was also needed to carry out the air exercises.
WHEN the new rules are applied, there will be a great difficulty finding qualified examiners!
Should I extend my activities to instructing tug pilots??
I have a class 2 medical, with allowance made for hearing loss! (hence site name... )
Seems there may need to be a little generosity on the part of those people paying CAA rates for privileges... I owe my NPPL to a couple such...

[Prop swinger]

Why all this talk about examiners? There is no test to add a sailplane tow rating to an EASA licence, there's no such thing as a tow rating under the old rules, never mind a test. If there's no test there's no need for examiners. If someone is mentioning examiner to you in regards to tugging they are either:a) bull$hitting or
b) unwilling to sign your application & blaming "the rules".
There is no requirement to hold a tow rating on an EASA licence to act as a tugpilot until April 2018. Until then you can continue to tow on an EASA or non-EASA licence, you can continue to train people to tow on an EASA or non-EASA licence. An NPPL(SSEA) holder with a DVLA medical can still be a tugpilot & can still train other tugpilots.

When the time comes for you to convert, if you can find a BGA CFI prepared to certify your tugging experience you can get a sailplane tow rating on your EASA licence. If you can find a BGA CFI prepared to certify that you have trained other tugpilots you can get a CRI certificate limited to sailplane tow training attached to your EASA licence.

[DeafOldFart]

Hi, prop swinger...... have another read of my post.... I am not talking about the NOW, but the Christmas Yet To Come....
EASA didn't exist when I first flew 42 years ago...
My gliding Silver C is a badge of achievement, not a licence, when flying in other countries a licence is required for sailplanes....
The shortage of instructors and examiners in light aviation is becoming felt, and is especially noticeable in the more exotic and unusual areas.
The date of compliance gets pushed back again and again... for many reasons
I have suggested that rule books should be the result of literary competition, the best set of aviation laws from the most competent author should be adopted.
Hey, the Ten Commandments fit easily on one side of a bit of A4, isn't there a comparable document for pilots....
Tommy Tickled Mary For Forty Glorious Hours.