CDM at LHR

[Cough]

Hi folks,

Sitting, waiting, listening to planner this morning awaiting our TSAT to come around, I was getting the feeling that the ATC weren't totally happy with the whole CDM process...

Whats the actual view from the coal face?

Cheers!

[ZOOKER]

The "TSAT", - marvellous!
What you actually need Cough is a 'Tea-Set', (TSET), - Emma Bridgewater does a nice one.
Then you can all sit on the flight deck, slurping some 'Earl Grey' or 'A Proper Cup Of Tetley'*
*delete as applicable
- Whilst waiting for operational ATC staff to try and get their heads round some more 'Horlicks' devised by office-dwellers somewhere in Europe.
'Collaborative Decision Making'? - Not Arff!! :E

[Cough]

Loved it one evening at FRA, called to say we were ready and would just sit tight till the TSAT (at -18min - Naughty!)

Reply from FRA 'Tonight, this CDM is a load of rubbish, start approved, call ground'

Might be from Europe, doesn't mean they all agree!

Tetley, though from a paper cup, coz if you bring china that makes you weird!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Makes you wonder how we ever coped without these new-fangled gadgets!

[Talkdownman]

But I loved to take some Cadbury's Dairy Milk to work at LHR...

[General_Kirby]

Can someone give a simple explanation of what CDM is please? I know its something to do with handing out start times, but I thought that was what the clearance delivery guy was for?

[Spitoon]

Can someone give a simple explanation of what CDM is please? Well........where shall I start?

It's something that some people think that they've invented because they're so smart. And now they want to share it with everyone. And they've even managed to convince those super self-elected people in the European Commission that this wonderful new idea they've come up with is the answer to lots of problems we have at airports.

So what is it? It's just common sense and talking to each other.

The sad thing is, having said this, I rather think it's a good idea. But the way we seem to be doing it trying to turn this common sense into a science.....sometimes complete with management consultants who know little about aeroplanes or airports telling how we should do our jobs.

And strangely, when I think back to my operational days, it's pretty much the way we worked before airports and air traffic became businesses and put managers in to 'manage' interfaces and stopped the people who can actually sort out all of daily life's little challenges in an entirely efficient way with a couple of phone calls.

Sorry. Rant over.

[Foxbat01]

I believe it's a computer generated target start time that will allow the aircraft, with regard to taxi time, to reach the runway just in time to meet it's allocated Slot (CTOT) time.

It's provided to the clearance delivery, or Ground Movement Planner, to pass to the aircraft.

[Spitoon]

Airport Collaborative Decision Making (http://www.euro-cdm.org/)

[bookworm]

Makes you wonder how we ever coped without these new-fangled gadgets!

You put them in the hold, and allowed them to burn copious amounts of rather cheaper fuel in a slightly cooler world while waiting until you were ready to peel them off the stack. Simples... ;)

[BAND4ALL]

Bring it on and watch the disaster unfold :E Enough rope in this to let all the managers who want this to hang themselves :ok:

[ZOOKER]

Just looking through the CFMU list of acronyms, (with a Glenmorangie 12 Y.O.) is hilarious.
There are more 'times' than a TARDIS pilot could shake a big stick at.

We have:-

ACZT, ADIT, AEGT, AEZT, AGHT, AIBT, ATOT, ATTT, AXIT, AXOT, ECZT, EDIT, EEZT, EIBT, ELDT,EOBT, ERZT, ETOT, ETTT, EXIT, MTTT, TSAT, TLDT, TTOT.

No, don't laugh, I've just read it, it's real! Baker, Davidson and Pertwee would cr*p themselves.

The reason the world was cooler bookworm is because we live in an interglacial. Yep, fuel is running out, and it takes about 130,000,000 years to make some more oil.
One of the aims of ATC/ATFM/CDM is to allegedly reduce the production of CO2. Here's an idea. Close all the duty-free shops. - How many 'slots' are missed because pax are still lurking in the duty-free areas when they should be at the gate? How many tonnes of fuel are wasted by the annual hauling of thousands of litres of Bell's (etc), up to FL390? Put the tax-free shopping areas just before Customs at the destination. Missing an onward train connection is less critical than an a/c missing its CTOT, TTOT or whatever.
It would certainly make HMRC's job easier.

[Loki]

CO2?

What, the 0.04% that makes up the atmosphere? Of which man has contributed 3%?

Ooops, thread drift.

[ZOOKER]

Worth a CANSO Award for a new "3Di environment metric" though. :E

[On the beach]

ACZT, ADIT, AEGT, AEZT, AGHT, AIBT, ATOT, ATTT, AXIT, AXOT, ECZT, EDIT, EEZT, EIBT, ELDT,EOBT, ERZT, ETOT, ETTT, EXIT, MTTT, TSAT, TLDT, TTOT

What, no TW*T? :E

[ZOOKER]

Just looked at the CDM document for Brussels from 2005.
It identifies 3 'key players'.

1. The ATFCM Expert and Punctuality Coordinator. - Chairman of the TOBT Working Group.

2. The Solutions Development Manager & BIAC Punctuality Manager.

3. BIAC/swITch - Business Solutions.

I've spared all the individual's names. You couldn't make this rubbish up. This was 7 YEARS AGO. Have they found the answers yet? (cf Project Apollo).

TW*T. Taxi-way Acceptance Time? :ok:

[118.70]

I'm sure we are all pleased with

"A collaborative and united team effort, focused on continuously improving their operation is collectively driving forward Heathrow as its stride for success."

The sentence peters out - what happens to Heathrow's stride ?

"“To date we are hugely proud and remain actively engaged with our Airline and Handler community as we continue roll out of this large cultural change programme through implementation and shortly finalise the transition into Business as usual!” Alison Bates, ACDM Project Manager "

Hurrah for Business as usual !

A-CDM full operational trials at Heathrow Airport | EUROCONTROL (http://www.eurocontrol.int/articles/cdm-full-operational-trials-heathrow-airport)

[DC10RealMan]

Yeah, whatever!!!!

[ZOOKER]

Interesting to note that, on 118.70's link, the controllers, (or actoors), are using 'Astrolite' headsets.
ATC always seemed better with 'Astrolite' headsets.
In the James Bond film 'A View To A Kill', the crew of the 'ZORIN', (now there's a crackin' name for a waypoint), airship, all wear 'Astrolite' headsets. :ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I have two Astrolite headsets. One I bought when I worked at Kidlington and later used for ham radio. The second (bought off Ebay for a few quid) replaced the first one and is still in use for ham radio.
I don't really like them and much preferred the type they replaced - the Stratolite which weighed half of the Astrolite. Neither was better than the headset I used abroad with IAL, which weighed about 1.5 ounces!

[118.70]

I found it interesting how A-CDM worked during the NATS computer failure incident in December, as reported in the Enquiry Report :

3.4.12 The recent introduction of the Eurocontrol Airport Collaborative Decision Making (A-CDM)
system at Heathrow and Gatwick should have helped in creating shared understanding across
stakeholders – airports, airlines, ATC and the NMOC – of movement priorities, aircraft
readiness for departure and Network slot times. Ideally, informed in real time by progress
with the London airspace system’s recovery, the situation on the ground at the airports and
FCMs, the NMOC would then have been able to allocate new Calculated Take Off Times
(CTOT) intelligently for departing aircraft from the London TMA airports and contribute
more effectively to managing congestion hot spots and Network performance more widely.

3.4.13 However, the initial suspension of all affected Flight Plans by the NMOC in response to the
4-hour ZRR prompted mass cancellations of CTOTs in the A-CDM system and, to some
airports and operators at least, gave the appearance of A-CDM not being able to ‘keep up’
with the crisis. Added to this was the apparent difficulty in re-establishing CTOTs, as not all
those affected understood the reason for them having lapsed. In some frustration, both
Heathrow and Gatwick Airport Ops Cells dispensed unilaterally with the A-CDM system and
resorted to managing departures locally within the MDI rates set by Swanwick and
extensions to slot times agreed by the NMOC. This was less efficient than it may have been
and had the effect of removing key data and communication pathways to and from the
NMOC and the consequential need for increased telephone coordination. Moreover, such a
fallback scenario had not been practised and, on the day, 2-way communications between
HOEC and the NMOC proved to be severely limited and ineffectual.

3.4.14 As a direct result of the contingency regulations invoked by NATS in response to the failure,
and in addition to those flights diverted or cancelled, some 353 flights were delayed29. It is
estimated that the number of passengers impacted by these initial delays, diversions and
cancellations is around 65,000. However, further delays continued during the recovery and
into the evening. In total, it is estimated that in the order of 1900 flights were affected by the
failure during the afternoon and evening of 12 December, impacting some 230,000
passengers. Additionally, several airlines reported cancellations and flight disruption the
following day, with approximately 60 aircraft and 6000 passengers affected.

[BAND4ALL]

CDM the emperors new clothes :E Biggest waste of money I've witnessed :ugh:

[Gonzo]

On whose part?

[BAND4ALL]

Everyone's

[Gonzo]

Because..........?

[BAND4ALL]

Because.....It may work wonderfully in single mode environment but it does not suit the mixed mode world I inhabit :ok:

[Gonzo]

Aha, so an individual implementation of CDM the issue. :ok:

[118.70]

I see that the 28day notice for changes in AIP says Heathrow de-icing may be operated by A-CDM

(5) Aircraft De-icing Requirements.
(aa) Annually, Heathrow publishes an Aircraft De-icing Plan (HADIP). All airline operators should ensure that
they have read and understood this document. A copy of the plan can be downloaded from Heathrow: Welcome to Heathrow Airport (http://www.heathrow.com/)
airside.
(bb) During periods of high demand for de-icing, Heathrow activates the A-CDM ‘Winter Module’ which includes
aircraft de-icing rig allocation capability.
(cc) In order to request de-icing, pilots should follow their company’s standard procedure. In accordance with
Heathrow’s de-icing plan, operators will enter the requirement for de-icing into A-CDM, which will ensure that deicing
resources are allocated appropriately. If the aircraft is to be de-iced remotely, operating companies will pass
this information to pilots prior to push. Remote de-icing facility locations are shown on chart AD 2-EGLL-2-8.
(dd) When doors are closed and ready to commence de-icing on gate, pilots must call Heathrow Delivery stating
“Ready for de-icing”. This call must be made at +/- 5 minutes from TOBT.
(ee) Once de-icing on the gate is complete, pilots should call Heathrow Delivery again, stating 'De-icing
complete, ready to push and start'.
(ff) Pilots who have been allocated a remote de-icing area should contact Heathrow Delivery, stating 'Ready to
push and start for remote de-icing'.

Will this improve matters ?

[Gonzo]

Not new, this was in last year too.

[Piltdown Man]

CDM is yet another system created by people whose necks you can't get your hands around. Designed by W*****s for W*****s and certainly not for airport operations. The only thing it gives you is enough time to tell your passengers the reason why they are delayed. Fighting fire with fire will be our best option. Airports HATE social media. They can't control what people post. So suggest that to your passengers that they make a nasty post on Face***k etc.

PM