Manx2 incident Ronaldsway. Gear collapse?

[Ransman]

Looks like the J31 G-CCPW operating a Manx2 flight has had a right main gear collapse, aircraft left the paved surface and stopped on the grass, no media info so far.

[boeingairbus1981]

EMERGENCY services were called into action at the airport tonight (Thursday) after a Manx2 flight crash landed with the undercarriage appearing to give way.
A Jetstream 31 aircraft GCCPW operated by Links Air, on behalf of Manx2.com, suffered a ‘problem with the right hand undercarriage’ after landing at at 6pm, a statement released tonight said.
The aircraft was operating the service from Leeds Bradford Airport to the Isle of Man.
The 12 passengers and two crew all disembarked the aircraft safely.
One passenger tweeted after the incident and described it as a crash landing but added: ‘We all walked off okay.’
A Manx2 spokesman said: ‘The emergency rescue services swiftly attended the scene and offered their assistance to the passengers.
‘Manx2.com would like to express their thanks to all those who helped during the incident for their professionalism and swift response.
‘Manx2.com are dedicated to passenger safety. Engineers from Links Air will be thoroughly investigating the cause of the problem.’




https://p.twimg.com/Ane7ht2CIAAIca-.jpg

[Leftexit]

Manx2 plane in airport emergency - Energy FM | Isle of Man (http://www.energyfm.net/cms/news_story_196821.html)

[Bodjit]

At least they all got off....... 2nd now after cork.

Manx2 are not an airline, they are only a ticketing agency........ Thats what they said after cork anyway := . Links and FLM operate their Ac, sloping shoulders eh!

We await the results of the investigation.

[Ransman]

Now let's not sensationalise this, not really a "2nd after Cork", different scenario altogether. This could simply be a mechanical failure of the gear, not a "press on at all cost" incident.

[1208]

rumour has it that a tyre burst on landing, the aircraft then departed the paved surface and the main gear then dug into the grass and got damaged as the aircraft spun around..... all pax and crew safe..

[mad_jock]

Thanks for that update 1208.

They are a bit of a pig when a tyre goes on landing.

[JSCL]

The guys at Linksair are NOT the type to be penny pushing to allow an accident to happen.

[charliemouse]

Used to do this route regularly as px.

Wx at Ronaldsway often makes the landing lively, and have experienced many a positive contact. Not in the least suprised to see a tyre/gear issue - but everybody walked off so no harm done. That said weather doesn't look too bad in the picture.

Having landed at about 15 degrees to starboard and progressed down a couple of hundred meters of runway on 1 wheel and with the right wingtip no more than 3 feet off the tarmac in a force 10 that had the ferries suspended this is probably the least kind of incident one could expect onto what is after all an island route. Eventually the wind dropped and we proceeded right side up. Not my favourite trips - I am a bad passenger/navigator when things are lively.

[LBIA]

The Isle of Man Airport Director Ann Reynolds was interviewed by the local Isle of Man radio station this moring regarding yesterday evening's incident involving a the Links Air, BAe Jetstream 31, G-CCPW aircraft that was operating inbound LNQ039L service from Leeds/Bradford.

http://www.isleofman.com/media/audio/manx2-reynoldsMarch081306.wma

While another image has appeared of the aircraft by the side of the runway

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/webimage/1.4327945.1331280769!image/3446364379.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_595/3446364379.jpg

[benpa31]

we were holding awaiting Take off.
wind 210 /17 RW 26, no major x wind but all other ac using 21...
Very heavy landing, gear came off befor entering grass...
Only words pilot said after crashing, and after a pilot from Capital aviation declared an emergency for him was "puncture"...
left engine continued running for a good 90 seconds after crash..
Prob contributed to the ac going of rw as remaining engine still producing thrust?
Fire service were 5 min to respond, all pax off before they arrived, probably due to the fact that fire trucks stayed on taxiways and runway instead of driving over the grass...
crew were taken away and PAX.
Atc then came on radio (messsage from Aaib) and asked if anyone new if the FDR would still continue to run if masterswich still on!! (30 mins had now gone past.... bit late for that question as FDR only records last 30 mins....
Fire men were then asked, check master switch....
Got a few pics. will add them laterhttps://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/430596_10150610499150662_678545661_9377820_290385972_n.jpg

[mad_jock]

jetstreams are pretty good in foul wx and high winds to be honest. The landings tend to be firmer than other types.

The tyres are pretty robust and you don't normally have much trouble with them. I have two go in 8 years flying them. One was new on and the other just went flat on the taxi in.

But because you only have one each side if you have any problems you get alot of yaw very quickly as the rubber starts flapping round the rim. Which can be a bit of a handful as proved.

The aircraft though is built like a brick ****e house, if your going to go off roading it would be my aircraft type of choice to do it in.

Just to check did the gear come off or did it fold?

[Heir Myles]

The landing was very heavy. Will the investigation reveal how many G?

The landing gear folded on the paved surface, not in the grass. Right prop badly damaged. Big spray of sparks from paved surface.

The aircraft partially spun on the runway; tail down probably due to friction of aircraft lying on folded gear. Entering grass at approx 45degree angle and stopped very abruptly with considerable G to port; completing the last 40 degrees of spin in final few yards in grass. Landing gear visible folded under wing.

Time taken from becoming stationary to first passenger exiting aircraft was under 30seconds.

[mad_jock]

The FDR is a 25 hour tape and the CVR is only 30 mins. And it does record G.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/dft_avsafety_pdf_033317.pdf

Something to read.

5.6G on that one and the gear didn't fold but the main spar cracked.

We shall see what the report says.

[benpa31]

Sorry, yea that's what I meant.... Not FDR

Very interesting read, that's some G!
Thanks

[benpa31]

Landing gear did fold and is 90 degrees to normal.
Ac could poss fly again

[Heir Myles]

Ac may fly again as you say. The tyre could certainly be used again - no puncture - it remains fully inflated.

[TL1R]

A few years back there was an AD calling for NDT inspection of the radius rod housing bodies for cracks on the J31/32 which if left unchecked could cause the radius rod to fail leaving the gear attached at the bearing housings but potentially not locked down, Seen one which failed in NZ and in that case the gear jammed against the wing skin at the outboard area of the gear bay preventing collapse but wonder in a strong cross wind if the same failure condition could cause the gear to collapse??, assuming the crack issue still remains and has not been modified out. Also seen a J32 land in the states with the brakes locked on one axle, ripped the tyre from the wheel and ground part of the wheel away but the aircraft remained on the tarmac with minor damage so would be surprised if a puncture alone caused the incident.

[Kiwi03]

Thanks benpa31 for your account but it is a bit off. I was the Tower Controller on at the time. I saw the whole incident and had pressed the AFS Crash Alarm while it was still skidding down the runway producing sparks. The AFS responded with 2 minutes. The pilot from Capital (which I am assuming was you) did not actually declare an emergency and the words from the JS31 pilot was actually "I think we have burst a tyre".
You may not hear much from ATC at the time of an incident as we are setting in the motion the attendance of the emergency services, finding out the POB, closing the airfield and making it safe for other users at the time etc...
Regarding the Voice Recorder, I was asked by the AAIB to make sure the circuit breakers were disconnected ASAP. I relayed that message to AFS who in turn told me that the battery had been isolated. I didn't want to assume that this meant there was voice recorder was now disconnected (as I am no engineer) so I asked any pilots on frequency if any of them could confirm this for me and I also contacted an aircraft engineer who was based at the airport.
I hope this now clarifies actually what happened.

[benpa31]

Thanks and Only said it how we saw it, and pleased you have clarified things. And no, not the capital pilot, 2 ac holding at time of crash at 21 and woodgate and flybe also lingering.
As we heard it, Capitol pilot called " call sign , emergency on runway" before pilot mentioned tyre also while ac was still sliding down Rw.
Anyway main thing, No one injured and everyone did there job.

[benpa31]

When ac landed it went over very slowly and only after breaking my guess (and only a guess) the landing gear could have had a small fracture and when brakes were applied, caused the gear to fold under slowly as the fracture enlarged.

[benpa31]

Yea I had heard that regarding tyre. Interesting...

[Ransman]

Actually, there were some, well, at least one, slight injury. Young man hit his head on the pax in the seat in front, had to have some stitches done at Nobles hospital. Nothing serious though. My kids always find it funny when I tell them to tighten their belt just prior to touchdown. Have always done it, and will continue to do so!

[Kiwi03]

Thanks benpa31 for editing your original post stating I did not know that the aircraft had, had an incident. Also I only assumed you were the Capital pilot from the angle of the photo posted and that the Capital aircraft at the time was PA31 like your user name. Sorry for assuming as you know what that makes....

[Sassy91]

Time to upgrade your calculator camera.

[benpa31]

No prob, used to fly pa31, not for capital though.

[overun]

And this is normal ?

You deserve all you are about to get.

The UK is just about to share a bed with eastern europe.

l bet the CAA pension deal doesn`t reflect that.

[jw29]

BenPA31 cant figure which is the more fuzzy, the photo, or your account of things.

[Heir Myles]

Benpa31 - some additional info to help refine the braking theory.

Inspection of closed runway indicates that the aircraft only just landed on the threshold well before the normal touch down zone. There is visible prop scarring in the paved area at this point. Debris was retrieved from this area for analysis.

There is then a long section of unmarked runway before the prop scarring, scuffing and debris resume, a further 200-300metres down the runway; close to the centre line - slowly moving to the right of centre and eventually into the grass.

So, a very hard landing where the prop is striking the paved surface well before the normal touch down zone - leaving debris...

[benpa31]

Hum. Well that's interesting.
So landing was hard as we said, with prop strike, and then nothing for 200 ish meters, then the gear folded enough for second prop strike and then full
Gear failure ??

[Heir Myles]

Would you get the initial prop strikes with the gear intact? Unlikely unless aircraft was significantly "tail up". Nothing to suggest that...

Suggests gear failure at initial landing?

[BOAC]

Anyone know the tip clearances with fully compressed oleos a touch of nose down/a bit of bank?

[mad_jock]

If the seals go on the gear and all the gas comes out the prop is very close to the gound. With the tyre squashed I could see it striking but I have never seen one with both gas gone and tyre flat.


I have had the seals go on a normal landing and the prop didn't touch but then again the nose didn't come battering down.

Nose fully compressed tyre squashed and MG oleo deflated I could see the prop touching the deck.

In fact that previous report I posted had a prop strike and the tyres and oleos were intacked and they taxied to stand after landing at 5.6g. They had though split the main spar.

[Heir Myles]

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1883411180/IMG_0846_2.jpg

This t.witter pic shows prop damage and pitch. Can also make out wheel under/behind starboard wing.

[benpa31]

Mad jock. Think it was u who mentioned pre. that there was a problem with landing gear a few years back. Could this be related, and was just awaiting a heavy landing to show it's face?
If the gear was semi collapsed after touch down, causing prop strike. ( hence reason for pilot thinking he had punctured tyre) They then braked causing gear to fail completely.
I do think it may have had underlying proplem, and was awaiting a none text book landing.?? Or like you said, could be just as simple as a low oleo and heavy landing...
With having no shock abs. and landing heavy, could this be enough to cause gear to fail?

[Machinbird]

Inspection of closed runway indicates that the aircraft only just landed on the threshold well before the normal touch down zone. There is visible prop scarring in the paved area at this point. Debris was retrieved from this area for analysis.
Interesting. Could a wheel have hit a runway lip, or does a paved overrun extend past the end of the runway?

[Capt. Horrendous]

There is no lip, the threshold of the runway is at the end of the starter strip which is brand new asphalt and billiard table smooth.

Interestingly, Red Arrows were here last June and they were landing in formation on the starter strip well before the threshold - naughty naughty ;-).

[off watch]

the starter strip which is brand new asphalt and billiard table smooth

Have arrows been painted on this bit yet, pointing to the displaced threshold ?

[mad_jock]

I can't remember saying that.

The gear though gets NDT'd regularly if anything happened years ago the aircraft would have been through several checks since and the gear may very well have been overhauled since.

[SeakingHAR3]

Given some of the debate on this thread you may well be interested in the photographs on the following sites

North West Air News [NWAN] - Isle of Man section - see thread at
North West Air News - Jetstream G-CCPW Crash Landing (http://derbosoft.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=iom&action=display&thread=8832)

and Aviation Herald updated article

Accident: Linksair JS31 at Isle of Man on Mar 8th 2012, runway excursion, gear collapse (http://avherald.com/h?article=44c26035&opt=0)

I was one of the ground observers - we were down at Manx Flyers Aero Club at the time. We have passed on our statements and photographs to the aaib team that came over.

[benpa31]

A few years back there was an AD calling for NDT inspection of the radius rod housing bodies for cracks on the J31/32 which if left unchecked could cause the radius rod to fail leaving the gear attached at the bearing housings but potentially not locked down, Seen one which failed in NZ and in that case the gear jammed against the wing skin at the outboard area of the gear bay preventing collapse but wonder in a strong cross wind if the same failure condition could cause the gear to collapse??, assuming the crack issue still remains and has not been modified out.

[SeakingHAR3]

Am new to PPRuNe but was one of two ground observers at Manx Aero Flyers Club when the incident happened.

It may help thread participants if they have a look at the photographs that we managed to take from approach, touch down and until the time G-CCPW came to rest on the grass. We have passed our photos to the aaib team and also made statements.

Please see discussion thread on North West Air News forum re Isle of Man thread on Jetstream G-CCPW Crash Landing .

Also see Aviation Herald article on
Accident: Linksair JS31 at Isle of Man on Mar 8th 2012, runway excursion, gear collapse which has been updated with new photos.

[Heir Myles]

Accident: Linksair JS31 at Isle of Man on Mar 8th 2012, runway excursion, gear collapse (http://avherald.com/h?article=44c26035&opt=0)

Once you look at that, there is not much more to add!

[iwhak]

Find it strange that the controller on duty is making contributions to this forum! Also seems strange that the witness accounts from two aviation professionals could vary so much. Maybe it's just me.

[benpa31]

Yep, that's what I thought originally.
See link Above.....
Confirms my first statement..

[PAXboy]

Accident and event investigators, from the Police to AAIB know that to receive two such contrasting reports from witnesses with a similar viewpoint, is entirely usual. The reasons are well known and documented. and I won't take up space in here.

Interesting that Aviation Herald reported the first part of this thread, reporting that an a/c waiting departure advised the controller of the incident when - later on in the thread - the controller reported that the crash button had already been hit, before that message was tx'd.

[Heir Myles]

The reasons are well known and documented.

Interesting - I understand this intuitively but would be interested in the theory. Can you point to any?