Need advice (PPL training)

[S64]

Hi there,

My long term goal is to become a professional pilot.


Initially, my short term goal (or my first step) is to get the PPL(H) in order to fly in France.

Where I live, I have only access to a S-300C which costs 600 USD per hour.
Currently, the price of the private license at this rate is too high for me.

I found a school in Oregon which offer R22 training at 214 USD per hour.
I am considering the possibility of doing my training there, converting my FAA license to a JAA one, and then complete the S-300C type rating course.


Hence my questions :

There is a school in Florida which is approved by the JAA. Does someone know if this school accepts a student who just wants to convert his private license ? As they are used to deal with FAA and JAA licenses, I guess the convertion would be faster than with the french DGAC.

I've recently heard of the EASA. What will change about the convertion, and till when have I time to do it with the JAA rules ?

Once in Europe with the FAA and JAA PPL(H), what would I need to keep the FAA license valid ?


Thank you for your help.

[RMK]

I wrote an article on this for Blades Magazine about two years ago. PM me and I’ll send you a copy. An S300C at USD600/hr is extortionate. You’ll come out better price-wise doing both FAA and JAA (soon to be EASA).

Unlike our JAA licenses, your FAA PPL (H) is quite simple and less expensive to keep. The license doesn’t expire, for an extra £60 you can find an AME to give you both medicals at the same time (Class II lasting 2yrs for 40ish year olds) and you only require a biennial flight review (BFR) every two years. The best bit is the FAA PPL (H) doesn’t have type ratings (and requisite expensive annual LPCs) for each helicopter. All helicopters under 5700kg* are lumped together.

* The “Cut & Paste Brigade” can correct me if the weight limit is incorrect, I didn’t bother to check – it’s from memory

[206Fan]

Where I live, I have only access to a S-300C which costs 600 USD per hour.600USD Per Hour for a S-300C? That cannot be right. 600USD is 381 Sterling (UK Pounds) at the current rate. You would get Two Flight Hours for that price across the Atlantic.

[GoodGrief]

Quite normal prices for main land old Europe. Paid $669 including tax and landing fees. Examiner is a friend of mine and didn't charge anything.

Edit: The average PPL(H) is sold for about €25000 or $33000.

[206Fan]

Edit: The average PPL(H) is sold for about €25000 or $33000.

Is them figures for Mainland Europe?

[GoodGrief]

yes.
Just found one for €29.381,- :ugh:

[500e]

Fuel £2:28\2:38 ltr. say £140 hour instructor £ 50 + maintenance, £\$ exchange rate for spares :{

[Whirlygig]

600USD is 381 Sterling (UK Pounds) at the current rate

The S300C is a mightier and pricier beast than the CBi.

I did my PPL in the UK on a "C" in 2003 and then it cost £316 an hour.

Cheers

Whirls

[206Fan]

Cheers Whirls. I didn't realize there was such a price difference between the C and CBi. I guess I'm lucky to have access to a CBi then.

[S64]

This law doesn't seem to apply where I live. There is a CBi at $650 an hour (£413) near my airport.

[Whirlygig]

Indeed Davy, when you're learning ...

However, me and me Da in a "C" and I didn't have to do any sums. If I'd taken him flying in a CBi, I would have had to have done some fuel and W&B checks. :8

Cheers

Whirls

[206Fan]

This law doesn't seem to apply where I live. There is a CBi at $650 an hour (£413) near my airport. I'm near afraid to ask what the R44 costs. These are all Piston figures. Turbines would be out of the Question full stop.

However, me and me Da in a "C" and I didn't have to do any sums. If I'd taken him flying in a CBi, I would have had to have done some fuel and W&B checks.You will be sticking with the "C" Model then :E

Dave

[Whirlygig]

Sadly Davy, the issue of "C" vs "CBi" doesn't arise as me Da is no longer with us. :(

But I still think a CBi is better than an R22 for W&B ... and for training ... and for handling ... and for ... er... having fun :ok:

Cheers

Whirls

[GoodGrief]

What are the going rates in Ireland?

[Flyting]

Does it really matter what you learn in...? Especially for those out there that have to pay their own way. Get the PPL the cheapest way possible, because that's all it is.... a PPL. It's the first step in the whole expensive process of eventually becoming a commercial pilot. You'll learn all about flying as a working pilot later on, not during ab initio training...

My 2 cents: learning on the weakest machine at high density altitude is the best way as you will never have to worry about flying on limits again...

[206Fan]

GG,

£290 Per Hour (346 Euro / 458 USD) in the North. Around the same in the South. It might vary a bit among the different Flight Schools.

[GoodGrief]

@S64

Your best and probably cheapest bet would be the JAA and FAA -PPL on the S300 at Bristow in FL.
The C/CB/CBi are all the same rating, no conversion required. You just might want to get familiar with flying from the left seat (C).
If I remember correctly the school in OR only has one 300, bad for you if that is down for maintenance or too many students want to run it at the same time.
Tickets to the west coast might be more expensive, travel time is longer, of course.

[S64]

Thank you for your answers.
Yes I've looked at Bristow in FL, but the prices are more expensive than in the Oregon/Montana aera. They also apply a post/pre flight tax which increases considerably the cost of the flight hour to $383 against ~ $250/290 in the North-West.

[DaveKnell]

Judging from the price and location, you're looking at Jerry Trimble's operation in McMinnville, Oregon. I got my PPL there (after a false start somewhere else) and I would recommend them to anyone and everyone who's prepared to listen.

--Dave

[GoodGrief]

@S64
I just re-read your post.
Your main goal for now is the JAA-PPL(H).
It looks like you have lost overview of your project already.
Download the FCL-2 from your DGAC webite and read.All of it.

In order to convert from FAA to JAA it is not enough to show up with a fresh private, you need a total of 100 hours of helicopter time in order to do so.
Now, recalculate: 100 hours at your favourite school.
Flight ticket to Florida, licence conversion with ground school, written test and flight with an examiner.On top of that 6 hours type rating + examiner on H300.
All of that takes time, every day costs you hotel, food and car rental.

I looked at the prices of that McMinville school. They cannot be correct.
It lists $214 per hour including instructor, others in the same are charge $220 solo plus $44 for the CFI.
The school only quotes 40 hours total and 10 hours of that are fixed wing training. Hello....

Now, back to the drawing board:ouch:

[S64]

Yes you are right. My goal is the JAA PPL(H).

At first I was interested by the McMinville school, I'm now considering an other school as they don't have S300.
I found this school (http://www.airworkllc.com/) located in Washington and Nevada which has 300C for $255 dual and $210 solo. Does someone has experience with them ?

With an FAA PPL(H) [with JAA flight training requirements : 30h dual (including 5h instrument), 15h solo (including 5h of cross-country)] and less than 100 hours, we just need to pass all JAA written examinations, the JAA skill test, a radio-telephony license and a JAA medical. I will do the convertion in Europe.


Thank you for your help.

[GoodGrief]

With an FAA PPL(H) [with JAA flight training requirements : 30h dual (including 5h instrument), 15h solo (including 5h of cross-country)] and less than 100 hours, we just need to pass all JAA written examinations, the JAA skill test, a radio-telephony license and a JAA medical. I will do the convertion in Europe.

Where does this info come from?

[S64]

It comes from LASORS C2.2

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/312952-conversion-faa-ppl-h-jaa-ppl-h.html
Sloane Helicopters Mallorca | ICAO (http://www.sloanemallorca.com/english/training/icao-conversion.html)

[MartinCh]

GoodGrief,

As for Jerry Trimble in MMV, Oregon, the FAA minimums for PPL or IR quotes may be published as to look cheaper, using some fixed wing crediting, but the rates ARE correct. Most heli pilots do not fly fixed wing, so can do their own maths. I did lot of flying there. Including some C172, which is also great rate, since I'm fixed wing pilot as well.

Bunch of Scandinavians did some hourbuilding there last year and more will do this year. It's family owned, own maintenance, low overheads hangarage, low 'residual value' frames, ie lower insurance premiums (they're always high anyway).

It is NOT BIG place like Hillsboro Aviation, where you got your figures from, for 'other OR school'. The 300 at HAI isn't as utilised as R22 obviously. Mainly conversion on type or for very heavy students (I did personally do some training there as well, so speak from first hand experience).

You can say I am biased since I had and will have proper work visa and finished training at Jerry Trimble Helicopters and will be returning to finish off some other stuff, have good time, do some instructing as available etc. But I assure you it's not made up. There's more and more Swedes or Norwegians dropping in for some hourbuilding through word of mouth. So if the place sucked and wasn't what it advertises, people wouldn't fly there.

As for current rates this year, the previous years block rate is scrapped and the credit card payment surcharge increased, but if people do their finances smart way, they get published rates. I am not claiming it's the most suitable choice for S64's plans, though. Just like to set the record straight as your doubts insinuate something not kosher with the school's rates, which isn't true.

S64, if you talk about the UK JAA/EASA PPL, you still need the JAA FI dual received logged sub-100hrs, AFAIK. Bristow Academy is the only full 'JAA' place, but with their rates nearing UK, with all the other expenses, if you only want to do PPL and nothing more, then it's not as great savings, honestly. If you want to do the whole training and try to get instructor job after, on that 'aviation F1' visa, that's another story, still pricey compared to few other 'F1 schools' in the US, but you can get the Euro stuff out of way easier/along the way.

EDIT: didn't mean to bump the few weeks old thread. I missed it that time due to being busy with other stuff. While GoodGrief didn't mean anything bad, I felt it necessary to set the record straight. There is no TGTBT, false advertising or hidden cost (as often with big schools, 10-20 bucks/hr) fuel surcharge, tax etc.