AF422 Emergency Landing Azores

[Ye Olde Pilot]

Seems like the cabin crew were unprepared for this incident and did nothing to calm the terrified passengers. Given the AF447 tragedy I don't suppose this will help the Air France image in Latin America.

This from the UK Guardian Newspaper

Air France passengers speak of terror on plane that plummeted towards sea
Passengers on flight from Paris to Bogotá say they thought they were going to die as burning smell filled cabin

The Guardian, Tuesday 6 March 2012

Air France passengers say they thought they were going to die after the plane they were travelling on plummeted towards the sea.
Passengers on an Air France flight travelling from Paris to Bogotá have told how they thought they were going to die when the plane they were on plummeted towards the Atlantic ocean after a burning smell filled the cabin.

Euclides and Rosa Montes, Colombians with British nationality travelling from London to Bogotá via Paris, told the Guardian people on board were "saying their goodbyes to one another" as the plane rapidly descended to within 2,000 feet of the sea to offload fuel.

"We looked out of the window and the sea was directly below us. Fuel was pouring out over the wings. We thought we were going to die."

Swedish newspaper Expressen quotes Eden Victoria Erlandsson, a passenger on the plane, as saying "panic took over, the cabin crew were sweating and shouting, and people were crying and praying. It was total panic."

The flight with hundreds of passengers on board made an emergency landing on the Azores island of Terceira at about 1.30pm on Monday afternoon.

After landing on a runway at Lajes airport on the tiny Azorian island, passengers were evacuated via emergency slides amid general chaos. Fire brigades and ambulances were scrambled to the scene. At least 50 of the Colombian nationals on board have been refused permission to enter the Azores as they do not hold the required Shengen visa documentation. They have been told they will have to spend the night sleeping on the floor of the arrivals lounge.

After the incident passengers raised concerns about the flight taking off in the first place, after it had been delayed due to unspecified technical problems at Charles de Gaulle airport.

After a delay of 34 minutes the flight, AF422, took off from Charles de Gaulle at 11.24am with the smell of burning already apparent upon take off. Two hours into the flight the plane rapidly diverted, turning back to the nearest landing point available.

The Aviation Herald has the detail.


Incident: Air France A343 over Atlantic on Mar 5th 2012, smoke caused by short circuit

By Simon Hradecky, created Monday, Mar 5th 2012 21:41Z, last updated Tuesday, Mar 6th 2012 12:33Z
An Air France Airbus A340-300, registration F-GLZJ performing flight AF-422 from Paris Charles de Gaulle (France) to Bogota (Colombia) with 274 passengers and 14 crew, was enroute over the Atlantic when the crew received a smoke indication for the lower mobile deck, crew rest area. The flight crew decided to divert to Lajes Airport on Terceira Island, Azores (Portugal) for a safe overweight landing. The passengers disembarked via mobile stairs.

Examination revealed the smoke indication was caused by smoke emanating from a short circuit.

A replacement Airbus A340-300 registration F-GLZR has been dispatched to Lajes on Mar 6th and is currently estimated to depart Terceira Island at 14:40L Mar 6th and reach Bogota with a delay of 26 hours.

The airline's press office said, the fire indication was false, there was no smoke, an investigation is underway to determine why the alarm went off for no reason.

Passengers reported an unusual burning odour shortly after takeoff, that had been delayed by about 30 minutes due to some technical issue. About 3 hours into the flight the odour intensified and smoke became visible in the cabin, seemingly emanating from a lavatory. The aircraft dumped fuel while descending towards the Azores Islands.

[tomkins]

"panic took over, the cabin crew were sweating and shouting, and people were crying and praying. It was total panic."
'Seems like the cabin crew were unprepared for this incident and did nothing to calm the terrified passengers.'
Bit hard on the cabin crew there.:rolleyes:You would not have been sweating in the same situation of course!The shouting may have been an attempt to regain some order!Maybe they had not be given any information from the flight deck.Pretty scary stuff for all concerned anyway!
And how would you go about trying to calm a bunch of fear struck passengers who don,t speak your language ,hence have understood nothing of the P.A.s,who assume that they are going to crash into the atlantic?

[KBPsen]

How can anyone give an accurate account when in a total panic? That bit always puzzles me.

[Clandestino]

Everything is possible when mass-media are involved. Except telling the difference between the mobile stairs and evacuation slides.

We looked out of the window and the sea was directly below us

Dang! It happens to me regularly! I had no idea it is dangerous!

[tomkins]

'We looked out of the window and the sea was directly below us'
a lot more comforting than having the sky directly below us;

[viking767]

Examination revealed the smoke indication was caused by smoke emanating from a short circuit.



The airline's press office said, the fire indication was false, there was no smoke, an investigation is underway to determine why the alarm went off for no reason.


So what was it? Smoke or no smoke?

[The SSK]

Reminds me of Monty Python's Flying Sheep - 'they do not so much fly as ... plummet'

[bracebrace!]

Smoke/Fire warning over the Atlantic on ETOPS. That would certainly get MY sphincter twitching....:eek:

[cockpitvisit]

Smoke/Fire warning over the Atlantic on ETOPS
What difference does ETOPS make?

[TurboTomato]

Nothing if you're on an A340.

[europaflyer]

I think bracebrace means ECAM.

[Torque Tonight]

Fairly tricky to cross the Atlantic without at some point having 'sea directly below' you. Maybe they should have taken the bus/train instead:confused:

[Spitoon]

What difference does ETOPS make?Not really my area of knowledge but.....I guess it does tend to reduce the likelihood of there being a conveniently locate runway (or even flat piece of ground) nearby.

[mixture]

Good to see journos still using....

The Lazy Journalists Plane Story Generator (http://radans.net/jens/planestory.html)

:cool:

[bracebrace!]

I thought it was a A330 so my mistake. I was inferring that smoke/fire over the Atlantic (or any other Ocean) miles from the nearest airport must be one of the worst scenarios ever. At least this time they were reasonably close to a diversion airport.

[4468]

Spitoon
Quote:
What difference does ETOPS make?

Not really my area of knowledge but.....I guess it does tend to reduce the likelihood of there being a conveniently locate runway (or even flat piece of ground) nearby.

No clearly not your area, (nor presumably that of brace brace!) since ETOPS REQUIRES a suitable diversion to be within a prescribed distance at all times. Thereby INCREASING the likelihood!

Non ETOPS has no such restriction, and could fly much further away from 'a conveniently locate runway' :rolleyes:

Why the number of engines on this a/c was even thought worthy of comment (330/340) is completely beyond me! :rolleyes:

[chuzwuza]

Extended range Twin Operations. 330 or 340? It makes a massive difference as aircraft with multiple donks ie A340, have far less restrictions impossed on their additional equipment and maintenance practices. Not to mention the distance that they can be from a suitable diversionary airfield. ETOPS refers to twins, not quads. This is therfor not an ETOPS flight.

[bracebrace!]

I only wrote ETOPS because it was I thought it had been an A330. WHICHEVER aircraft you're in a Smoke/Fire ECAM plus burning smell is not a nice place to be when you're over the Atlantic miles from an alternate.

Let's get back to the topic shall we? :ok:

[Final 3 Greens]

According to the Guardian (London) 'Two hours into the flight the plane rapidly diverted, turning back to the nearest landing point available.'

As TCE is some 1626 statute miles from CDG, this aircraft was obviously a Concorde, so why all the talk of A330/340 ? :}

[911slf]

emergency slides amid general chaos

I can tell the difference between getting off via a slide and getting off by other means. But as a former civil servant I might not recognise general chaos. :)

More seriously, this is where language skills count. Can't cover all bases but surely one flight attendant should be available to speak the languages expected to be used by most of the passengers?

[Togalk]

In regards to the cabin crew, remember this is a French airline we're talking about. Following the rules and common sense aren't really their forte.

With respect to what the pilots did, it sounds like they did everything correctly. Fire indication with no way of confirming whether it's false or not, get the aircaft on the ground ASAP. Which is exactly what they did. No damage and no injuries. Good work!

[finessemax]

Togalk,

Pardon my french, but this is one dumb comment.
Does Toronto ring any bell ?
Who exactly are you to stigmatize french cabin crew, or any other nationality for that matter ?
And you dare talking about common sense ! :ugh:

[tomkins]

'In regards to the cabin crew, remember this is a French airline we're talking about. Following the rules and common sense aren't really their forte.

With respect to what the pilots did, it sounds like they did everything correctly. Fire indication with no way of confirming whether it's false or not, get the aircaft on the ground ASAP. Which is exactly what they did. No damage and no injuries. Good work'

Tooland pompous fart

[tomkins]

911slf
More seriously, this is where language skills count. Can't cover all bases but surely one flight attendant should be available to speak the languages expected to be used by most of the passengers?
Unfortunately language skills count for dick now .Cost cutting you know.Even if there had been a spannish speaker on board,those Russian ,Chineese etc,who don,t speak french,spanish,or english would have panicked.Not a fault of the cabin crew.
Why are you picking on the cabincrew,as far as we know all they did was sweat and shout,things that you would expect them to be doing in this kind of situation.............and I bet they had a far more stressfull time than the flight crew who would be in the cockpit dealing with the situation without 300 odd crazed passengers to deal with.
Think it through a bit:=

[Semaphore Sam]

What is NOT being discussed is, if there were indications of smoke before and during take-off, why is an Atlantic flight not going back for repairs, especially as there was an issue before departure? The issue of F/A & Cockpit Crew seems small by comparison...

"After the incident passengers raised concerns about the flight taking off in the first place, after it had been delayed due to unspecified technical problems at Charles de Gaulle airport.

After a delay of 34 minutes the flight, AF422, took off from Charles de Gaulle at 11.24am with the smell of burning already apparent upon take off. Two hours into the flight the plane rapidly diverted, turning back to the nearest landing point available."

[judge11]

I cannot believe that an Air France trans atalantic flight did not have a crew member on board who would not have been able to make a PA in either English or Spanish; the flightdeck crew are supposedly level 4.

An emergency, yes - deal with it is the priority but once dealt with a 30 sec PA would not be beyond the realms of possiblity.

Poor CRM - and I'm emphasising the Crew Management bit - and that comes from the guy in the LHS.

[lomapaseo]

After a delay of 34 minutes the flight, AF422, took off from Charles de Gaulle at 11.24am with the smell of burning already apparent upon take off.

I have no idea about the credibility of this statement, its source or even why it is in red and bolded in parts

I tend to ignore self serving facts that have not been validated by an investigating agency.

Too much second guessing and judgements on the crews actions without the facts apparant that they were working under.

[Lord Bracken]

It's highly unlikely most passengers could tell the difference between the smell of the galley ovens warming up vs. a cargo fire, n'est-ce pas?

[patowalker]

Colombia was where I first came across passengers clapping when the aircraft landed. That probably says something about how they might react in an emergency.

[avicurious]

Link with video of local Portuguese news
Comments from a Spanish-speaking passenger
Duas aterragens de emergências hoje no Aeroporto das Lajes (atualizado c/vídeo) - Notícias - RTP Açores (http://tv1.rtp.pt/acores/?article=25704&visual=3&layout=10&tm=10)

[Ye Olde Pilot]

Looking at the translation it appears there was visible smoke in the cabin. The descent of the aircraft, dumping of fuel and lack of proper communication to passengers must have ignited panic. With passenger phone video becoming more available soon maybe we will get a proper feel for what happened.

Duas aterragens de emergências hoje no Aeroporto das Lajes (atualizado c/vídeo) - Notícias - RTP Açores
There was however also today another emergency alert with fire on board. flight AFR442, A343, Orly to Bogota, said emergency fire alarm in the crew rest area (in 42N0 39W) with emergency landed at Lajes. There was very visible smoke in the cabin when he landed. The cause of the fire has not yet been cleared and may have been treated some kind of slow combustion. A combustion may have started in the luggage room. (Antena1 Azores) News video: Nuno Neves, TV News

The BBC has carried the following with a telephone interview with a very plausible passenger.
Passengers on an Air France plane forced to make an emergency landing have spoken of people ''crying and screaming'' as they feared it would crash.

The AF422 flight from Paris to the Colombian capital, Bogota, made a sudden descent and had to land on the island of Terceira in the Azores on Monday.

Passenger Eden Victoria Erlandsson said there was panic amongst both passengers and cabin crew.

BBC News - 'Crying and screaming' as Air France plane loses height (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17273569)

Air France are in damage limitation mode here with the Lat Am media trying to play down what was a poorly handled incident aft of the flight deck.

[Herod]

Am I missing something? I can't see any mention of a lack of language skills. It seems to have crept into the thread, and done a "Topsy" (just growed)

[Ye Olde Pilot]

Air France has a different take on the story.
The airline said the flight had a technical problem after a smoke alarm sounded in the cabin crew rest area.

A statement read: “The cabin crew put on the breathing protection masks to inspect the rest area and no smoke was detected.”

It added that the captain decided to divert to the nearest airport as a “precautionary measure” because the alarm had sounded.

The plane dumped fuel in order to land without the jet being overweight - a standard procedure, it added.

Air France denies reports of panic on board and says that passengers did not leave the aircraft on emergency slides.

“The crew informed the passengers in French, English and Spanish, of the reasons for the diversion.

“The crew reported no injuries, illness or panic among the passengers, who left the aircraft normally using both of the airport’s jetways.”

Following an investigation by the airport fire department on the ground, “no trace of smoke or any other irregularity was found on the aircraft,” the statement added.

The 274 passengers on board were put up in overnight accommodation and continued their journeys on Tuesday afternoon (local time) on another Air France A340 jet.

[No RYR for me]

Good to see journos still using....

The Lazy Journalists Plane Story Generator




Classic! Thanks for sharing :ok:

[GarageYears]

Am I missing something? I can't see any mention of a lack of language skills. It seems to have crept into the thread, and done a "Topsy" (just growed)

Yes, you missed something. Watch the BBC link (repeated here for clarity): BBC News - 'Crying and screaming' as Air France plane loses height (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17273569)

The passenger who is interviewed states (my interpretation for those too lazy to watch the video): "There was no information. The cabin crew didn't speak English. They said they are a French Airline and only speak French".

So language skills DO seem to be an issue. :ugh:

- GY

[Dg800]

So language skills DO seem to be an issue.

By that you're referring to some of the passengers not being able to speak any French, right?

DG800

[GarageYears]

By that you're referring to some of the passengers not being able to speak any French, right?

Oh, of course... :oh:


The International Civil Aviation Organisation has decreed that from 1 January 2008 all Air Traffic Controllers and Flight Crew Members engaged in or in contact with international flights must be proficient in the English language as a general spoken medium and not simply have a proficiency in standard ICAO Radio Telephony Phraseology.


It's my assumption that this does NOT extend to the flight attendants....?

- GY

[Dg800]

It's my assumption that this does NOT extend to the flight attendants....?

And you would be absolutely correct in that assumption. There is no requirement, AFAIK, for flight attendants to attain any ICAO proficiency level whatsoever, as they are obviously not part of the flight crew and could just speak an obscure Chinese dialect as far as ICAO is concerned. I'm sure that is actually the case for many f/a in mainland China. ;)

Personally, when I travel to any country where English (or German, or Italian) is not spoken as an official language, I do not expect anybody to be able to speak English (or German, or Italian) just because it would please me if they did. I wouldn't also claim that "no information was given" just because I am not able to understand the language the information was actually given in. That would be a bit too egocentric even for someone as myself. :p

Cheers,

DG800

[Evanelpus]

And you would be absolutely correct in that assumption. There is no requirement, AFAIK, for flight attendants to attain any ICAO proficiency level whatsoever, as they are obviously not part of the flight crew and could just speak an obscure Chinese dialect as far as ICAO is concerned. I'm sure that is actually the case for many f/a in mainland China.

Personally, when I travel to any country where English (or German, or Italian) is not spoken as an official language, I do not expect anybody to be able to speak English (or German, or Italian) just because it would please me if they did. I wouldn't also claim that "no information was given" just because I am not able to understand the language the information was actually given in. That would be a bit too egocentric even for someone as myself.

I understand that French is their national language but......

"There was no information. The cabin crew didn't speak English. They said they are a French Airline and only speak French".

the few times I have had the misfortune of having to fly with Air France, the FA's spoke perfectly good English and could understand what you were saying to them but choose to do the 'shoulder shrug' and say non comprende. That's their right but in a panic situation, playing dumb is not acceptable if the crew were capable of answering questions in English.

[FRying]

Job well done, guys ! :ok:

[patowalker]

The passenger who is interviewed states (my interpretation for those too lazy to watch the video): "There was no information. The cabin crew didn't speak English. They said they are a French Airline and only speak French".

Those who watched the video heard the passenger say that when they landed and asked for information about onward flights the cabin crew claimed not to speak English. That was most probably an excuse, because they had no information to pass on, in English or French.

[hetfield]

That was most probably an excuse, because they had no information to pass on, in English or French. Tip top in Job....

[patowalker]

AF422 did not make the only unscheduled landing at Lajes that day:
Incident: Lufthansa B744 over Atlantic on Mar 5th 2012, medical emergency (http://avherald.com/h?article=44bf5100&opt=0)

[SeenItAll]

While I certainly don't know what transpired on this flight, I must report that on every international flight that I have been on with a major carrier (and AF is certainly one), all cabin announcements have been made in both the language of the originating country and in the language of the destination country. Thus, while this flight may not have been staffed with CC who speak English, I can't believe that it had no Spanish-speaking CC. Of course, whether these Spanish speaking CC actually made any announcements, I cannot opine.

[Escape Path]

Colombia was where I first came across passengers clapping when the aircraft landed. That probably says something about how they might react in an emergency.

Doesn't mean this is the only nor first country where people do that. Passengers and media are pretty much the same, at least, in Latin America and on some other areas of the world, obviously.

Please do keep stupid pointless regional comments like that to yourself.

Sincerely,

A Colombian pilot

[misd-agin]

Clapping in the Caribbean, or nearby lands, is not uncommon.


I love this comment -

The cabin crew didn't speak English. They said they are a French Airline and only speak French".


What language did they say "We're a French Airline and only speak French"??? Either it was said in English OR the person being quoted speaks French.

LOL.

[Ye Olde Pilot]

Here is the full Air France statement;
Air France would like to apologize to the passengers of flight AF 422, travelling from Paris-CDG to Bogota, which had to divert to Terceira in the Azores yesterday, 5 March 2012.

The Airbus A340, which left Paris-CDG on 5 March 2012 with 274 passengers on board and 14 crew members, landed in Terceira (Azores) due to a technical problem.

During the flight, at cruising altitude and approximately 200 kms from the coast of the Azores, a smoke alarm sounded in the cabin crew rest area. The Flight Captain decided to divert to the nearest airport as a precautionary measure to guarantee passenger safety. This decision is in line with the manufacturer's procedures and Company instructions.In line with procedures, the cabin crew, in charge of passenger safety, put on the breathing protection masks to inspect the rest area.



No smoke was detected.

The crew nevertheless continued to Terceira airport, after having emptied fuel in line with the manufacturer's instructions.

The crew informed the passengers in French, English and Spanish, of the reasons for the diversion.

The aircraft landed normally around thirty minutes later in Terceira at 14:26 local time.

The crew reported no injuries, illness or panic among the passengers, who left the aircraft normally using both of the airport's jetways.

Air France provided them with accommodation at hotels around the airport.

Following an investigation by the airport fire department and maintenance teams, no trace of smoke or any other irregularity was found on the aircraft.

The diversion of an aircraft is a situation which presents no risks, for which the crews are trained and have experience.

To continue the trip to Bogota, an Air France Airbus A340 was sent to Terceira a few hours after the event. The passengers took off this afternoon at 15:38 local time from Terceira to Bogota. The landing is scheduled for 18:43 local time in Bogota.

The Flight Captain is highly experienced and is also an instructor.
The Chief Purser is of Argentinian origin and speaks fluent Spanish.

[lomapaseo]

I have seen numerous videos and experienced several landings where passengers under stress have clapped when the wheels touched the ground.

The majority of these had english speaking passengers and crew

I suspect it is a way of confirming finality that whatever abnormality that they had no control over was now ended (human nature ?)

[A-3TWENTY]

How can anyone give an accurate account when in a total panic? That bit always puzzles me.

AF didn`t have a crash this year yet , so probabilities are against travellers.

:}

[patowalker]

Doesn't mean this is the only nor first country where people do that. Passengers and media are pretty much the same, at least, in Latin America and on some other areas of the world, obviously.

Please do keep stupid pointless regional comments like that to yourself.

Sincerely,

A Colombian pilot

Pointless regional comments? IMO, 40+ years in Latin America, 7 in Colombia and a daughter born in Pereira give me the right to comment.

The panic mentioned by Europeans passengers is not borne out by the comments of Colombian passengers. I am inclined to agree that the reaction was to sob and pray, rather than shout in panic.

Aterrizaje de emergencia de vuelo Bogot-Paris, de Air France - Noticias de Europa - Mundo - ELTIEMPO.COM (http://www.eltiempo.com/mundo/europa/ARTICULO-WEB-NEW_NOTA_INTERIOR-11293642.html)

As for the clapping on landing, I think it is an insult to pilots, akin to shouting "Hooray!" for getting it down in one piece. Having flown many times on Avianca, Aerocondor, SAM and ACES, I have a high regard for your colleagues and think they deserve more respect.

[Escape Path]

IMO, 40+ years in Latin America, 7 in Colombia and a daughter born in Pereira give me the right to comment.

Fair enough haha. I do apologise for my defensive behaviour.

The minute I heard about this incident it just seemed unbelievable that there was so much fuss about a diversion. Things were just completely blown out of proportion, a true storm in a teacup.

That's why I stopped watching news on the telly here; it's all just rubbish and more rubbish.

Given that there hasn't been any type of comment regarding the flight crew, they appear to have done everything correctly and managed an abnormal situation properly.

[Ye Olde Pilot]

While not wanting to suggest blame and agreeing the flight deck did a good job it appears the cabin crew could have explained the situation better to the passengers who may have memories of a previous AF accident.

Air France appear to have a problem with their flight attendants lack of communication skills.

[BOAC]

Air France appear to have a problem with their flight attendants lack of communication skills. - and their pilots, it seems.

[Dairyground]

What language did they say "We're a French Airline and only speak French"??? Either it was said in English OR the person being quoted speaks French.



I can say quite confidently "I do not speak language-x" in language-x, where language-x is any of French, German or Japanese (or English). That does not mean that I can hold a conversation or deliver an explanation of anything in any of those languages.


I have seen numerous videos and experienced several landings where passengers under stress have clapped when the wheels touched the ground.


My first experience of such spontaneous applause was in a BEA Trident (I think it was still in BEA/BOAC days) after a landing on runway 31 at Edinburgh in the mid 1970s. There was a very strong westerly wind that day, gusting and with heavy showers. The flight from Heathrow had been delayed whilst new tires were installed, so the captain told us, and the landing was very very firm. So even stoic Scots were moved to applaud when we stopped before we reached the 13 end.

[DouglasFlyer]

I can say quite confidently "I do not speak language-x" in language-x, where language-x is any of French, German or Japanese (or English). That does not mean that I can hold a conversation or deliver an explanation of anything in any of those languages.

fijBUeqiW0g

[hetfield]

Great:D:D:D:D:D

[nodule]

FlightAware > Air France (AF) #422 Flight Tracker (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFR422)

Anyone know why 422 is showing as diverted to PTP today? A little confused, but I suppose it could be knock-on of re-shuffling aircraft after the previous tech issue?

[blind pew]

What you didn't know which the local Jocks did was that BEA had a history of running off the end at Edinburgh even with reverse thrust selected before touchdown.
Even more A@@@e clenching was Gibraltar whose runway ended with a sea wall and the Spanish had a warship moored on the approach path with apparent orders to shoot us down if we ventured into their airspace.
Now there was an applause after landing!

[SLFguy]

Every, and I mean, every flight I've taken out of Glasgow to a Greek Island or Turkey has had the 'clapping on landing' thing.

Every single one!!

[Evanelpus]

Every, and I mean, every flight I've taken out of Glasgow to a Greek Island or Turkey has had the 'clapping on landing' thing.

Here was me thinking it was only the Japs and the Yanks that went in for this kind of thing.

[SLFguy]

"Here was me thinking it was only the Japs .."


I said "clapping"

[Juud]

I realise French-bashing is a beloved sport of many Anglophones (yes, the very same people known world wide for their foreign language profiency).
Still and all, some people here might be interested in the facts.

Entrance requirement for AF cabin crew is level 3 English.

Promotion requirement for Chef de Cabine (2 on this flight) and Chef de Cabine Principal (1 on this flight) is level 5 English.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/Juud81/Picture2-14.png

In other words, the person making the cabin PAs, the CCP, spoke English fluently.

Something else too; when journalists report on cockpit matters, most ppruners see right through their sensationalist cr@p.
When journalists report on cabin matters, suddenly it´s the gospel?

[MurphyWasRight]

SLFguy:
I said "clapping"

Reminds me of one of my favorite dog cartoons;

Picture: A confused and -very- hurt feeling looking dog standing next to a fresh steaming pile with an angry owner yelling.


Caption: "I said SIT"

[ex-EGLL]

Something else too; when journalists report on cockpit matters, most ppruners see right through their sensationalist cr@p.
When journalists report on cabin matters, suddenly it´s the gospel?

Good Point

[captcat]

It sucks when facts get in the way of a good story, but there you go.

I am a Cabin Chief at AF (English Language level 5, but if you prefer I can stutter and write a parbleu! here and there for your enjoyment) .
As Juud said, you must have a minimum level 3 requirement to enter the company, in short: be able to speak, read, write and hold a conversation. A high percentage of our passengers are not French nationals nor French speakers. How do you think we interact with them and all the people we meet around the world, with sign language? How do you think we read the announcements that must be read in both French and English (that's the law)? Do you think we use Google Translate?

That anyone in the crew was not able to speak English is such a ridiculous statement that it qualifies even the rest of the "story" as "fantasies" of a couple of drama queens in need of their 15 minutes.
It says less about these people than about those more than eager to buy it...just watch how happily all the posts speaking of facts are being ignored (like the statements by passenger A.Colombo telling an entirely different story).

Anyway, for those interested by the boring facts, here is the AF press announcement to AFP...in French, naturally. For all you people here ready to point fingers at AF for allegedly not speaking English. You are of course all fluent in French, n'est-ce pas?


Air France réfute "des scènes de panique" dans un de ses avions dérouté - Lead Général

PARIS, 6 mars 2012 (AFP) - La compagnie Air France a catégoriquement réfuté mardi des propos rapportés par deux passagers d'un vol Paris-Bogota dérouté lundi vers les Açores, largement relayés sur twitter, faisant état de scènes de panique à bord de l'appareil et d'une désorganisation de l'équipage.
Un Airbus A340, qui devait relier Paris-Bogota avec 274 passagers à bord, dont une cinquantaine de Colombiens, a dû se poser lundi à Terceira par sécurité, après qu'une alarme incendie a retenti dans le "poste repos" des navigants pour une raison indéterminée.
Morten Aamot, un passager norvégien de 24 ans, a affirmé que de la fumée était visible à l'intérieur de l'appareil. "Un membre du personnel courait avec un extincteur dans les mains. Il a couru vers les toilettes d'où la fumée venait. Ce n'est pas quelque chose qu'on a envie de voir quand on se trouve dans un avion", a-t-il déclaré au site internet de la chaîne norvégienne TV2.
"Il n'y a jamais eu la moindre émanation de fumée dans la cabine, cette information est totalement fausse", a déclaré à l'AFP Eric Prévot, porte-parole de la Direction générale des opérations aériennes de la compagnie française.
M. Prévot a expliqué que, conformément aux procédures de sécurité, l'équipage avait ouvert le poste de repos où l'alarme avait retenti.
"Ils ont procédé à une inspection complète et ont constaté qu'il n'y avait pas la moindre fumée ou de traces de début d'incendie. Ils en ont rendu compte au commandant qui a poursuivi le déroutement par mesure de sécurité", l'origine du déclenchement de l'alarme incendie étant indéterminé, a-t-il expliqué.
Le porte-parole a souligné que, "toujours conformément aux procédures", les navigants ayant réalisé l'inspection étaient munis d'une cagoule avec de l'oxygène, pour éviter d'être intoxiqués en cas d'émanation de fumée, "et d'un extincteur pour être prêts à intervenir".
"Des passagers situés près du poste repos ont donc vu les personnels intervenir et ils ont pu s'en inquiéter. Les navigants ont agi rapidement mais avec calme", a insisté M. Prévot, par ailleurs commandant de bord sur Boeing B777.
"Il y avait la panique à bord", a néanmoins affirmé un passager suédois, Eden Victoria Erlandsson, 26 ans, dont le témoignage a été publié par plusieurs médias, dont le site du tabloïd suédois Expressen.
"L'équipage était en sueur et criait. Les passagers priaient et pleuraient. La panique était totale", a-t-il ajouté, en se plaignant de ne pas avoir eu de version anglaise des informations communiquées aux passagers, diffusées, selon lui, en espagnol et français.
Air France a affirmé de son côté que les scènes de panique décrites par ce passager "sont en décalage absolu avec la réalité des faits", sans minimiser l'inquiétude qui a pu être ressentie.
M. Prévot a en outre assuré que les informations ont été diffusées en trois langues (anglais, français et espagnol), pour annoncer le déroutement pour des raisons techniques et rassurer les passagers sur les procédures en cours.
L'équipage a notamment informé que la procédure de sécurité prévoyait de vidanger du carburant avant l'atterrissage.
"Après en avoir informé la tour de contrôle, l'équipage a expliqué aux passagers qu'il était normal que les passagers situés près des ailes voient du carburant s'échapper de l'avion", a indiqué le porte-parole.
L'avion s'est ensuite posé normalement. Selon M. Prévot, l'équipage a ensuite réuni les passagers pour expliquer ce qui s'était passé.
Les passagers ont finalement redécollé mardi à 15H38 GMT. Leur arrivée était prévue à 23H43 GMT.

[ZeeDoktor]

I'm surprised to read that the passengers reporting panic were Norwegian and Swedish. I thought they were Ecuadorians, which of course prompted me to laugh it off... But those nordic people, they're not the kind of people traditionally associated with emotional outbursts, at least not the ones (few) I know.

In my book at least, this press release adds question marks rather than clarifies.

Doc

[Bergerie1]

Well said juud and captcat!

[mary meagher]

passengers clapping after a landing? probably expressing relief to be down at last after being stuck in the hold over Bovingdon going around and around for 40 minutes...

I still remember leaving Moscow airport in 1987 in a British Airways plane; everybody was so happy and relieved to be departing the Soviet Union they all applauded on takeoff.....

[golfyankeesierra]

In my book at least, this press release adds question marks rather than clarifies

Absolutely, and the fact that there isn't a descent response in English even more makes the point:
here is the AF press announcement to AFP...in French, naturally.

[etrang]

As for the clapping on landing, I think it is an insult to pilots,

I consider it a compliment to the pilots and CC, thanking them for a safe journey. Very few nationalities would indulge in sarcastic clapping.

[chuzwuza]

I always applaud the taxi driver when he gets me safely to the pub. Much the same thing isnt it?

[Sober Lark]

One shouldn't feel too smug about people clapping. Technically it is the claps decay time that shows real appreciation or approval.

[mary meagher]

Language problems? Sacre bleu!

I know it's thread drift, but it must be shared - the problems that a French Catalina encountered, visiting the Fermanagh Seaplane Festival in Northern Ireland, as reported in the March 2012 issue of the AAIB Bulletin, page 9.
Another visiting Catalina, flown by a British crew, flew across to the festival areas, and self-moored as expected although conditions on the water were demanding, because of the prevailing wind.
When the French Catalina , which was accustomed to shutting down and being towed to its mooring buoy, landed on the water, it "shut down, to await the tug crews.....The French ground crewman spoke limited English, and the Chief Marshall could not speak French. Communications between the French ground crewman and the aircraft crew were predominantly in French. Eventually a line was attached, but as they tried to take the Catalina under tow, the line fell into the water and became tangled in the boat's propellor. The ground crewman then tried to prevent the boat from becoming separated from the Catalina, and ended up falling into the water. Another marshall boat arrived...but its propellor also became tangled in the line...so the Catalina contined to drift backwards into a moored yacht, damaging its right elevator."

[OverRun]

The French ground crewman then said "Merde - J'ai une chatte-alina humide"

[wozzo]

A german journalist, who was by chance on AF 422, wrote of his and his fellow travellers astonishment about the sensationalist reporting. According to him, there was no smoke, no panic, cabin crew professional & and orderly exit on stairs. No drama.

Source: Panorama: Pressedrama über dem Atlantik - badische-zeitung.de (http://www.badische-zeitung.de/pressedrama-ueber-dem-atlantik)

[misd-agin]

Could someone translate it into French so it could be transatled into English for the non-Level 3/4 German speakers? :)

Danke(sieben jahre in Deutschland gewoehnt).

[misd-agin]

Article mentions that the F/A's talked with a couple of anxious passengers but the majority remained calm. Passengers understood that is was a typical response to an unusual situation even if it turned out to be a flase alarm.

Makes several references to the fact that no one smelled smoke even after the alarm went off.

[Bergerie1]

wozzo - exactly what I would expect. Why can't people stop frog bashing. Just because some things are different doesn't mean they are wrong.

[Juud]

GYS, it helps if you read the thread. English press release quoted in full post #46.

The article linked to by wozzo was written by a German who was on board the aircraft. It also quotes a Norwegian and a Brit who were.

They decry the blatantly untrue and completely ludicrous coverage from the BBC, The Guardian, Expressen and TV2.
As the Norwegian says: "I tried to tell the journalist what has happened, but I could hardly get a word in edgeways. She wasn´t interested in hearing the true chain of events at all."
He tells about 2 Brit pax in the lobby of the AF paid hotel. Who laugh about the Guardian´s fantasy-smoke story. The BBC has interviewed the Swedish woman mis-quoted by Expressen. On live, she says: "I didn´t smell any smoke. I just heard that others had maybe smelt some."

From the article:
It didn´t smell of smoke after take-off, just a bit of mushroom risotto.
The approach lasted about half an hour; a stewardess walked through the aisle, smiling and calming down a few passengers. But most pax didn´t need any calming down at all. They were watching the seat-backs in front of them. That´s where the tv screens are, that´s where they watch "Harry Potter", "Indiana Jones", "Big Sharks - small fish".
Regularly interrupted by announcements from the crew; in French, English and Spanish.

Journalistic sensationalism swallowed uncritically combined with eagely expressed prejudice against the French characterises many posts on this thread.

Now that the truth is filtering out, it rather looks as if AF pilots executed a textbook precautionary landing, AF cabin crew did their checks by the book, made their PAs in three languages & took care of pax anxiety in an exemplary fashion.
After which AF put the pax up in a hotel at the company´s expense, and flew them to their destination the next day.

Bløødy incompetent lot, those French.

[TeachMe]

About language ability, I do not know the level of proficiency of the cabin crew, and it is a French Airline so despite views of English as a global language, I rather think EXPECTING the cabin crew to have good English is a bit unfair.

Having said that, I am also a senior IELTS and ESOL examiner and would say that IELTS 5 is not very high ability, especially when a 5 can come from a reading and listening score of 6 and a speaking and writing of 4 (overall band is the mean of the 4 sub-skills). Actually language testing is much more complex than anyone would guess, and any score needs interpretation and understanding. Frankly, being a language tester has made me not trust the validity (not to mention the reliability) of any measure of language ability.

TME

[SeenItAll]

Come on. This issue is now over. The AF CC both could speak excellent English (and I'm guessing Spanish, too), and did make the appropriate announcements. Journalistic license appears to have just went way too far in its initial reporting on this incident.

But if anyone wants to keep the thread percolating, let me observe that perhaps the worst offenders with respect to linguistic diversity are the anglophones -- particularly the Americans (such as myself). While decent Spanish capability is likely to present among an American CC, facility with other languages generally is problematic. Thus, we should be the last people to throw brickbats at other airlines' communications.

[SLF3b]

Was on a (British) plane that diverted with the cabin full of smoke and made an over weight landing. There was only one quite terse announcement from the cockpit - I got the impression they were quite busy, and that talking to me was not a priority for them.

[iceman50]

SLF3b

I got the impression they were quite busy, and that talking to me was not a priority for them.

You are more than likely correct and that is the way it has to be, if there is more time there will be further PA's from the Flight Deck. I would also suspect, although you did not mention it, that there were PA's from the Cabin Crew concerning the situation.

[hetfield]

Did they wear oxy masks?

Makes PA announcements very charming.

[offroad7]

Yea come on guys. They were clapping cause they were happy they landed safely thats all. It was not a sarcastic insult or anything like that

[Jazz Hands]

Something else too; when journalists report on cockpit matters, most ppruners see right through their sensationalist cr@p.
When journalists report on cabin matters, suddenly it´s the gospel?



Not quite. When journalists write something which is in pilots' interests, it's gospel, when they don't, it's sensationalist cr&p. Irrespective of truth.

[Hunter58]

Well, in this particular case it was obviously complete bilological remains regarding any aspect of flight and crew...

[stuckgear]

Was on a (British) plane that diverted with the cabin full of smoke and made an over weight landing. There was only one quite terse announcement from the cockpit - I got the impression they were quite busy, and that talking to me was not a priority for them.


In english or french ?

[mixture]

SLF3b,

Was on a (British) plane that diverted with the cabin full of smoke and made an over weight landing. There was only one quite terse announcement from the cockpit - I got the impression they were quite busy, and that talking to me was not a priority for them.

There is something all pilots are taught when they first start flying around in spamcans which tends to stick with them for the rest of their flying careers (whether private or professional). It's a simple series of three words .....

Aviate ..... Navigate ..... Communicate

i.e.

First and foremost you fly the plane.

When you're happy the plane is doing what it should be doing, you can move on to figuring out where the :mad: you are !

Once you've done that, you can communicate. This too has three levels of priority, in the following order :

(1) Radio work (so other airspace stakeholders know what your intentions are and allowing you to obtain clearances).
(2) If you're lucky enough to have cabin crew... relaying messages to them
(3) Talking to passengers

Of course, if there are two of you up front, CRM and company SOPs introduce an added layer of complexity, but fundamentally a lot of the above still applies in terms of prioritising who you talk to and when.

That is why ....

I got the impression they were quite busy, and that talking to me was not a priority for them

Is to be expected in the event of something else going on to keep those in the pointy end busy.

[Bergerie1]

Spot on mixture!

The first essential is to ensure the safety of the aircraft. Of course one has to reassure the passengers, but, however aware one is of the need to do this, the safety of the flight comes first - as you say; aviate, navigate communicate, and then in the order you have stated!

[ab33t]

Air France again , it seems they have been dogged by continous problems , what does this say for there maintenance? Is this just pure bad luck or something else ?

[enicalyth]

What with dastardly "empennage, fuselage, aileron, breguet, dassault", etc etc as opposed "airplanes, aircraft"... yes, clearly the French. [Hat, coat...]

[SLF3b]

You guys struggle with irony.

On balance, I was happy for them to prioritise landing the plane over talking to me - even though I was flying Business Class.