female pilots should not be allowed in the cockpit

[Learjet-45]

The title seems contraversial but I wanted to get more opinions on female pilots.

the other day I turned up for flight school theory training, out of the blue I asked my instructor why there were not many female pilots out there?

I had previously spent the day at Melbourne international airport and for the whole day heard one female pilot from around 100 arrivals and departures.

any how the instructors words were that females should not be allowed anywhere near the cockpit, I was taken back by this but did not argue with the guy.

in my opinion I would have said that it really doesnt matter what sex flies the plane, but what is the general feeling in the industry?

I know its an odd topic but I just want some more understanding on the mater.

[Lightning Mate]

Is this a wind-up?

[Avionker]

How long before this thread gets locked? And as for the OP, what do you think about the subject?

[Denti]

The low number of female pilots is indeed somewhat puzzling. Airlines over here hire them for quite a while now and it is absolutely normal to have them doing that job. However of all applicants for cadet training with the airlines there are only around 5% female ones. Even if the airlines try to give them a slight advantage they do not get more than around 5 to 6% female applicants of all applicants that do pass the entry tests. The pass rate during flight training is then the same as for the male ones.

Funny enough with a very similar if not even more thorough entry test system there are around 50% of female ATCO applicants, both applying and passing the test.

Or simply said, most women are way too clever to even try the airline way, they rather take the better paid, stay at home job of an ATCO instead and fly in their spare time. Doesn't say much about us males on the other hand, we are apparently just waiting to get blinded by that stupid dream about flying the big jets.

[neville_nobody]

Females have a natural advantage in ATC in they can multitask well hence the high number.

As for flying I think the whole BS GA scene in Australia makes it hard to for girls to break into flying. Once in the bigger operators its obviously a little fairer however being a girl and getting the experience to apply for a airline is a tough road to hoe as GA is a very blokey industry.

[Artificial Horizon]

More than likely the lack of Female pilots and/or applicants is the fact that they are not totally obsessed with engines, lights and things that make noise. This means that they actually look at what the job can offer, the majority then decide to go to Uni, get a degree and actually pursue a career where you are valued and earn the same money. That is unless they decide to be stay at home Mums (most vital job in society).

As an aside, some of the best Captains I ever had the pleasure of flying with were/are female Captains. I truely hope that if the above scenario is true that dic*heads like your instructor are few and far between. No room for that kind of attitude anymore. :ugh:

[WannaBeBiggles]

As for flying I think the whole BS GA scene in Australia makes it hard to for girls to break into flying.

I would just see it as all being relative, less female CPL's = lower Male:Female ratio.

I could easily say I know less unemployed female pilots vs. male pilots, but of course the above would also apply.

Doesn't Wrightsair have a decent female contingent, not to mention a female CP?

Maybe said CP who stalks this forum can add her input as to the comment made by the instructor and how she feels GA is towards women?

[Ultralights]

thats some tasty but familiar looking bait there... not biting though.

[blackhand]

Sure, is a bit strange allowing gals into the COCKpit, how about we let them into the BOX office then.

[Wanderin_dave]

Someone please post that pic of the Wrightsair ladies.

* For reference purposes only of course :E

[flyinkiwi]

As plenty of people have said, flying doesn't seem to appeal as much to women as men. How many of you guys go out and ride horses for recreation? But for the few that are as aviation mad as us blokes, the ones I have met have been as dedicated, professional and committed to flying as men are, and in some cases more so.

[Learjet-45]

I often think it is a bad idea to have a mixed sex cockpit on a long haul flight as there is a danger of sexual actions being carried out and the plane could stall whilst in auto pilot!

this may seem silly to some, but human beings can become very open minded when stuck in a cockpit for 8 hours with an attractive male/female next to them.

I say its a matter of time before an accident could occur due to this.

[gupta]

^^^^^
This is the kind of thinking that leads to the wearing of burqas.

I suspect that Learjet-45 has just reached puberty and has self control problems

[Metro man]

Perhaps the girls look at the expense involved in getting licensed vs the likely hood of actually getting a decent job at the end of it all, and decide it's not worth it.

For the same expense and effort of getting to the stage where an airline will even look at you, a university degree can be had. Pick the right subject (mining for example) and you can walk into a secure, well paid job and have your career take off.

The years of low pay and poor conditions in GA aren't for everyone.

[Typhoon650]

I'd definitely say it's because women are far more rational than men when it comes to making important decisions about careers, money, effort expended for reward etc.
That's why the smart women all have degrees and are accountants etc.
Men generally tend to "follow the dream" and settle in to doing something they really enjoy for their careers. Nothing wrong with either course so long as you're happy and die that way.

[The Green Goblin]

All the ladies I have flown with have been very good and very knowledgable bar one.

I can't say that about all the blokes I have flown with!

The one thing they all had in common was they loved to trash talk the company. If an aircraft broke (as they do) they blamed dodgy maintenance etc (lack of mechanical understanding!) it got tiring listening to hours of he said she said.

If a CB popped, they kept resetting it. In fact I recall one flying along with her finger on the CB and when questioned about it replied so that her HSI would continue to operate else the CB would pop := (multi crew too!)

Any way if those girls took the same mechanical interest and had the same understanding as the fellas, the would have been the complete package.

I can't say I have ever been attracted to one however just because they are female. When they are on their game and flying in arduous conditions they are just as capable as any other Pilot (in some cases more) and mostly a pleasure to work with. I can't say that about all the fellas!

[morno]

I often think it is a bad idea to have a mixed sex cockpit on a long haul flight as there is a danger of sexual actions being carried out and the plane could stall whilst in auto pilot!

this may seem silly to some, but human beings can become very open minded when stuck in a cockpit for 8 hours with an attractive male/female next to them.

I say its a matter of time before an accident could occur due to this.

My god, there are seriously still people like you in society? I think you need to do some growing up mate.

I have had the pleasure of working with and even being instructed by female pilots. They are in no way any worse than their male colleagues. I've seen some bad eggs, but then I think I've probably also seen more male bad eggs. Again, the % would be about the same.

There IS a place for female pilots in our industry and I've always thought that there should be more than there is.

Would you tell people like Nancy Bird Walton and Amelia Earhart that they shouldn't have gone anywhere near a cockpit?

morno

P.S. I think your instructor need's a reality check and to grow up himself.

[Worrals in the wilds]

female pilots should not be allowed in the cockpitContraversial? Rude for the sake of it, I would have said, but anyway...
As for the actual question, I think Neville and Metro man have a point (though it hasn't stopped plenty of women succeeding in GA) but most women don't want to work somewhere like Tenant Creek for three to five years. If you look at any Australian Public Service department with remote stations and voluntary transfer policies you'll see a far higher percentage of male staff in the boonies, even though the bonuses are good. Women tend to like big cities (insert shopping joke of choice, but IME it's true).

Also, shift work and nights away from home do not suit many women with families. Most (not all) women see themselves having children at some stage and tend to look for jobs that will fit around that.

At the end of the day it's a blokey sort of job and I don't think the average woman is all that interested, any more than the average guy is interested in being a nurse, for example. Of course there are exceptions to general rules and I certainly don't see any barrier to either gender in either profession, which is as it should be. I don't see either approaching gender equity in the near future though, if ever, and who cares?

I learned to fly for a while (didn't continue) and my female friends were interested, but not one asked about how or where to do it.


Funny enough with a very similar if not even more thorough entry test system there are around 50% of female ATCO applicants, both applying and passing the test. Really? :confused: I thought it was a lot lower than that. Learn something every day!

The one thing they all had in common was they loved to trash talk the company. If an aircraft broke (as they do) they blamed dodgy maintenance etc (lack of mechanical understanding!) it got tiring listening to hours of he said she said.
That's an interesting point, and probably a fair one. Women in the workforce do tend to be bitchy (I'm as guilty of it as anyone else :O).

I often think it is a bad idea to have a mixed sex cockpit on a long haul flight as there is a danger of sexual actions being carried out and the plane could stall whilst in auto pilot! Have you met many grown up women? :hmm: Unclothed ones on the internet don't count. :}

[Wallsofchina]

Sucked them in then showed them your skills base LJ45.

[Clare Prop]

ATA spitfire women - YouTube

Just sayin'

[TWT]

I saw that doco a while back on SBS (?).2 stories stand out.The bomber being delivered (forgot what type).Female pilot shuts down and exits,awaiting a car to pick her up.Blokes show up with the car and refuse to believe she was the only pilot,so they then searched the aircraft looking for the male pilot.Egg on face.

A spitty lands through the soup around the airfield.Flying operations had been suspended at the field due weather.Male pilots were wondering why this aircraft was airborne at all.Pilot gets out ,they walk over,then she takes off her flying hat (?) and reveals long flowing hair.She flashes a smile and casually saunters off.Stunned silence from blokes.

[Pontius]

the plane could stall whilst in auto pilot!

Lear, you're either a good-wind up merchant or an immature, Microsoft pilot who has no inkling of interacting with real aircraft or real women. I suspect the latter :rolleyes:

[baswell]

the plane could stall whilst in auto pilot!
Lear, you're either a good-wind up merchant or an immature, Microsoft pilot who has no inkling of interacting with real aircraft or real women. I suspect the latter
Are you trying to imply autopilots can't stall aircraft or did you just pick the wrong part of Lear's post to quote?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hi 'CP',

And said well........

:ok:

[pakeha-boy]

Quote...At the end of the day it's a blokey sort of job .......

Beautiful statement...I want to marry you...............I fly with the ladies,long and short haul...no issues,no worries,no problems......get over it rahore

[Trojan1981]

I am surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet.

Anyway, I think it's a combination of afformentioned reasons. Flying doesn't appeal to as large a proportion of women as it does men; flying is not a lucrative, secure career or a financially smart career choice; widespread predjudice against women exists in GA.

One former chief pilot once reportedly said "If women were meant to fly the sky would be pink!" and that was for a government operator.

I disagree. The few woman pilots I know are more than competent.

[Brian Abraham]

I often think it is a bad idea to have a mixed sex cockpit on a long haul flight as there is a danger of sexual actions being carried out and the plane could stall whilst in auto pilot!

this may seem silly to some, but human beings can become very open minded when stuck in a cockpit for 8 hours with an attractive male/female next to them.

I say its a matter of time before an accident could occur due to this.I think Learjet-45 has just finished reading the book "She'll Never Get Off The Ground". Grow up son, it's fiction. The ending ain't real life and detracts from what otherwise is a great read.

[Worrals in the wilds]

I also think he's been watching too many LMFAO music videos and assuming they're actually serious. :E
WKxx5QC0ewc
I am surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet.Despite the inauspicious start, it's a valid question and people have made some interesting points, particularly wrt GA. Out of interest are there many female airline captains these days? I recall it being fairly unusual five or so years ago, although there were a lot of female FOs.

[PA39]

At one stage I had 16 female pilots learning to fly. Some went onto the airlines, some charter jocks and some stayed pvt pilots.

I can say with all honesty that girls are much better pilots than blokes. Blokes sit at the bar after work and tell each other how good they are and the girls tell each other how bad they were!! A girl is more cool, calm and collected and handle pressure far better than guys. You don't need to be Arny Swaznegger to fly a bloody aircraft, just common sense, something sadly lacking in overtestosteroned young male pilots.

Sorry fellas but that is my experience over many years as CFI and CP.

[PilotKarl_777-300]

this may seem silly to some, but human beings can become very open minded when stuck in a cockpit for 8 hours with an attractive male/female next to them.

I say its a matter of time before an accident could occur due to this.

I think there was an accident that happened involving this type of scenario. I remember seeing it on Air crash investigation couple years back. :hmm:

I can say with all honesty that girls are much better pilots than blokes. Blokes sit at the bar after work and tell each other how good they are and the girls tell each other how bad they were!! A girl is more cool, calm and collected and handle pressure far better than guys. You don't need to be Arny Swaznegger to fly a bloody aircraft, just common sense, something sadly lacking in overtestosteroned young male pilots.

I honestly think anyone could become or make a great pilot regardless of sex gender. If a person wants to learn to fly and become a good pilot then go for your life! I've witnessed a lot of female pilots who make bad mistakes, same with blokes. It's the just common sense that you mentioned, which i'd say is 100% correct :D

And like many have said, GA is more of blokes job. I tend to find most female pilots remain as instructors or go into private flying!

Safe flying! PK777-300 :ok:

[Worrals in the wilds]

I think there was an accident that happened involving this type of scenario. I remember seeing it on Air crash investigation couple years back. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif
You're not thinking of a lightie are you? I remember one in the US a while back that resulted in two fatalities; a small Cessna from memory.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Was told a story (possibly a furphy) about WWII pilots refusing to fly a certain type (beaufighter????) initially due to handling concerns. WAAC delivery including full aerobatic display on arrival at the location.

No problems after that.

[blackhand]

Well aren't we a bunch of Sensitive New Age Guys.
Womans place is in the kitchen, and looking after the babies.
No disputing that woman is compentent enough for flying, but when sh1ts are trumps you can't beat a bloke full of adrenilan and testosterone up the front.

[Pontius]

Are you trying to imply autopilots can't stall aircraft or did you just pick the wrong part of Lear's post to quote?

Hi Baswell,

No, I'm not trying to imply autopilots can't stall an aircraft but I think I should have probably quoted the rest of Lear's inane comment for context. His suggestion that 'sexual actions' on a longhaul flight is any more likely to lead to the autopilot stalling the aircraft than a flight with no 'sexual actions' is ludicrous. The guy is clearly very immature, given the depth to his argument regarding female pilots and he's not helped by either the idiocy of his instructor nor his lack of knowledge of aircraft systems.

I believe the evidence bears out the fact that women, as a group, are less attracted to becoming pilots than men but once they have decided that is what they want to do then all bets are off. I have probably flown with over 120 individual female pilots (a VERY quick scan of the logbook) and have interviewed a good deal more. In general (and excuse a sweeping statement), I have found they are better prepared than blokes for the interviews and have put more thought into the process. I would propose they are more cerebral during training but I have seen a great many girls who are a 'good pair of hands' and don't need to rely on brain power and extra 'study'. Once on the line, though, I have found very little difference in the performance of the job between the girls and boys. As a proportion, I reckon the number of 'screw ups' and character traits has been the same between both sexes and I genuinely have no compunction about flying with either.

I do wonder how I've managed to avoid the problems that Lear and his wise instructor postulate. Maybe they might want to ponder some other ill-considered opinion; how about gay pilots? Surely similar 'sexual actions' between them could cause the autopilot to stall the aircraft on a longhaul flight:rolleyes: