The 'MALAISE' Continues.....

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

From the AvWeb site (USA),....

" INDIA'S KINGFISHER ON THE ROPES
Days may be numbered for India's largest budget airline but Kingfisher Airlines is soldiering on even though the Indian government has frozen its bank accounts and its pilots are becoming less interested in going to work since they haven't been paid since November. The accounts freeze came last week after the airline failed to meet a deadline to pay millions in back taxes. Somehow, the airline is still finding crews to volunteer to fly the 28 remaining aircraft still operational (from a total fleet of 68) and it's still finding passengers willing to join them. Kingfisher's flamboyant CEO, Vijay Mallya, who lives part-time in Marin County near San Francisco, says his company will survive."

What IS it with these people..??

Crews NOT paid since November last???
Accounts frozen?
And this 'flamboyant' CEO lives in California..???

Hello....Hello....crews... Still 'Volunteering..??:=:=:=

Must be chasing the hours...

[Capt Turbo]

To quote the Indian Justice Minister : " 20% of Indians are ....honest people, the rest are either borderline crooks or utterly dishonest" (and this was after he was forced to moderate his viewpoint).

Got the picture, GRIFFO? :suspect:

The remaining pilots are not volunteering to anything, just held hostage with their tax and pension money stolen by the company, and now 3 month's salary, too.
Most pilots have left already, among them more than 400 expats.

[FLEXPWR]

Three years ago, KFA was avoiding paying hotel bills, being kicked out of a new hotel every few months due to default payment. They've changed the terms and conditions a number of times, squeezing some non-indian to take up local contracts.
They were also missing payments on their simulators for more than 6 months, which pushed training providers in terminating agreements with them.

The management of KFA was given to Malya's 23 year old son as a present for his birthday. Back then we could already see something was wrong.

You cannot pay a hotel room, while you operate a multi billion dollar airline and order 380's? Come on, they've taken people for idiots for too long, sad for the ones who lose their jobs, but I hope this operator goes down, it'll give opportunities for another the start something hopefully better.

[ironbutt57]

Why Mallya is no Branson | mydigitalfc.com (http://www.mydigitalfc.com/views/why-mallya-no-branson-051)

[vctenderness]

I had my suspicions about this guy when I saw him touring Airbus and talking of ordering huge numbers of A380's in order to replace Indian Railways!

I flew once on Kingfisher and it was very good with high levels of customer service however this clown has let it fall apart.


Branson he certainly is not!

[CargoOne]

Kingfisher created a jobs for many people including locals on this forum and they paid reasonably well. Now instead of saying "thank you for giving us jobs" people start to bitch about company and founder instead of going finding another job?

What's wrong with you people?

[ironbutt57]

Cargo one, they remain behind and work without getting paid since November, so yes, what is wrong with them???

[condorbaaz]

Don't issue tickets for Kingfisher: IATA (http://www.ianslive.in/index.php?param=news/384382/Top%20Story/30)

[brakedwell]

Looks like the fat lady is singing.

[clareprop]

Sad. I flew them in the early days and they were a breath of fresh air in the region.
Namaste..

[Capt Turbo]

Looking through the recent shower of official statements to the press, officials, employers etc., mister Mallya and his pet CEO has succeeded in not providing one single true statement.

Even the KFR pilots (those still left) have come out of the deep denial and stopped operations this week, an amazing feat considering there is no union to coordinate such action.

Including tax, providence fund and salaries it is estimated that Mallya has cheated each pilot of almost one year's salary.

Has anyone here ever experienced a similar massive fraud and abuse of pilots by any other airline?

[Need to Know Basis]

Turbo, there was a true statement today.....almost. The media report was that an A330 was returned to the Lesee in London in order to stem further losses. The truth was that the Royal Bank of Scotland with baliff`s on hand ceased the aircraft upon arrival LHR. Also overnight, x 3 KFA aircraft arrived and are parked in DUB.

[Sqwak7700]

This is the slowest death I have ever seen. The fact that the Indian aviation authorities don't step in and put and end to this serious safety concern that is KFA is perplexing.

cheated each pilot of almost one year's salary.

If you show up to work for A WHOLE :mad: YEAR without ever getting paid, then you deserve to be shafted out of a year's salary. One month you don't receive your salary, you ask what is going on. If by the next month you are still salary-less, then it is your duty to withhold your services.

Some people really do not deserve to call themselves "professionals".

[brakedwell]

This is on the BBC business news.
BBC News - Kingfisher Airlines 'curtails' international flights (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17362896)

[Jazbag]

Please refer this thread....

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/479685-kfa-tries-stop-pilots-moving.html

Unfortunately DGCA had a hand in it too with CAR on 6 months notice period... it was blatantly being misused by this airline to force pilots to fly..:ugh:

[captjns]

The DGCA does have the right to overrule its own CARsunder situations which warrant such action where maleficence is apparent. Thequestion should be asked is if the Central Government is willing to step in andforce the DGCA’s hand so pilots can move on to another carrier and get on withtheir lives.

[fireflybob]

Thequestion should be asked is if the Central Government is willing to step in andforce the DGCA’s hand so pilots can move on to another carrier and get on withtheir lives.

Whilst not professing to know or understand the employment rules in India, I am amazed that any country in this day and age has legislation preventing mobility of labour! If the employer has broken the contract by not paying it's pilots (staff) then surely they should have an inalienable right to take their services elsewhere?

[Vortex Thing]

Squawk77 had it occurred to you that the pilots who worked for almost a year without pilots may have had little choice.

I as did many did not get paid for many months work at Arik in Nigeria. I am owed 6 months salary but that excuse for an airline. The facts are thought that even in that environment many of my colleagues notably the younger Scandinavians continued to turn up as they did not have anywhere else to go!

It is nothing to do with being professional if you have a family to feed and no one else in the world will interview you, regardless of ability or background then the choice is to keep flying the jet until you have enough hours to move up the food chain or make yourself uncurrent, unemployed and then try and get enough money to get to interviews all over the world frequently at your own expense oh and pay the mortgage, feed the family, avoid the bailiffs and court orders and try not to get divorced at the same time.

Granted now yrs past my misery at Arik I find it a shame that these guys are treated that way by people who have the gaul to call themselves employers but to call the victims and your brother/sister pilots unprofessional when they are likely 100k in debt from having shelled out on thier own training and type rating and who are getting shafted by gutless, selfish, frequently cowardly and underhand management is not exactly cricket now is it!:confused:

I mean whose side are you on? Yes what the airline is doing sucks but the problem lies elsewhere and is likely a reason why a frequent conversation at bars in the sandpit amongst 777, 737 and scare bus crews is how with 4000hrs plus the vast majority of us are there , amongst other reasons, because UK employers such as Flybe, Easyjet, TCX, etc would rather take a 250hr 25yr old from CTC, Oxford et al than even interview a local British pilot who would likely be too demanding in their eyes with expect to bases and Ts & Cs whereas the reality is that if you are willing to work in India or Nigeria then Newcastle or Manchester is hardly likely to upset us that much!

[shon7]

has managment had a meeting with any of the employee groups to see if a resolution can be worked out. only thing that comes to mind if an offer of equity or some kind of employee pressure to the government to defreeze accounts.

Who really benefits if Kingfisher goes under.

[Sqwak7700]

Sorry but I stand by my comments.

It is nothing to do with being professional if you have a family to feed and no one else in the world will interview you, regardless of ability or background then the choice is to keep flying the jet until you have enough hours to move up the food chain or make yourself uncurrent, unemployed and then try and get enough money to get to interviews all over the world frequently at your own expense oh and pay the mortgage, feed the family, avoid the bailiffs and court orders and try not to get divorced at the same time.

If you have a family to feed you get a job, any job. Working for free is not a good strategy. You are treated with the respect that you demand, and by providing your services for free you are not deserving of much respect. By working for free you perpetuate the treatment you receive by carriers like KFA or Arik Air.

I have sympathy for someone loosing their job as a result of poor management or economic pressures. I have no respect for pilots that have been working for free for up to a year loosing their job. In my view, they lost their jobs a year ago when they stop receiving their salaries.

because UK employers such as Flybe, Easyjet, TCX, etc would rather take a 250hr 25yr old from CTC, Oxford et al than even interview a local British pilot who would likely be too demanding in their eyes with expect to bases and Ts & Cs whereas the reality is that if you are willing to work in India or Nigeria then Newcastle or Manchester is hardly likely to upset us that much!

Sorry but I have a hard time understanding your point. You are saying that a guy willing to up-root his family to India and Nigeria would be too demanding with regards to bases and Ts&Cs in the UK? Really? That is why he is taking a third world job in a third world country? Makes no sense to me, unless I misunderstood your point.

[Capt Turbo]

Before even considering taking up a job in the 3rd world you must be prepared for the 3rd world conditions, i.e. endless misuse by corrupt civil servants, being cheated, threatened and lied to by your employer, being in the occasional mortal danger and so forth....

The Arik case is straight forward: No cash coming.
The KFR case is a little more subtle: Here the pilots believed that their tax-money and providence funds were safe (Kingfisher told them so). When they finally realized this winter that the money had been "borrowed" by VJM, they were effectively bonded, since each pilot is personally accountable to the tax-man.
The expats left, some had to pay the IRS additional local tax since the Indian tax was not paid (only deducted from the salary by VJM), but the Indian pilots does not have that option; they are in the "home soup".

It is easy in hindsight to say "how stupid and naive can you be", but think:
What will you do, if tomorrow it turns out that your seemingly successful employer with "deep pockets" is a thief and a liar, and the tax man comes knocking on your door for the missing money - and you are bonded for at least 6 month + the tax money?

Most KFR pilots left, counting their losses. Those remaining live in the hope that somehow they will recover some of it, and now they have finally taken some action, so don't think too badly of them; they were victimized by 3rd world lack of basic decency.

Today VJM has called them in for another meeting.
I will bet that they will get a bag of hot air and no salary.

Anyone? I will give you 10:1....:E

[ironbutt57]

Kingfisher to have full recovery plan in 2-3 days: Mallya | Firstpost (http://www.firstpost.com/business/kingfisher-to-have-full-recovery-plan-in-2-3-days-mallya-245856.html)

2-3 days....hmmmm thats how many minutes I get told when I ask when the cargo doors will close, or the load sheet will arrive...:uhoh:

[ironbutt57]

The "fat lady" has arrived at the opera house, and the orchestra is seated...:eek:

[CaptainSAC]

I worked for VJ personally once upon a time as a Master on the "marine" side of things, but I left when it was pointed out by my senior Captain they had forgotten to pay us for the last 3 months!! It seemed that an Indian gentlemen in the management chain was jealous of our superior salaries and had blocked our last 3 transfers. Big ups to VJ, when he heard, he went ballistic!! We got the money eventually!! But, he still owes me a pair of gold cufflinks he borrowed to go to dinner with Prince Albert up at the Palace when Benetton (sponsored by Kingfisher) got a podium in the Monaco GP. Looks like I wont be getting them back now!!

[merlinxx]

VJ once had a bloke in SIN signing & paying all external bills. This little sh!te had to lent on continuously by myself to get our & fuel card bills paid. A couple of times even grounded G-VJAY & VR-CUB:ugh: Little man with big ideas, deep pockets & ask some of his ex Hawker & Gulfsteam Capt's:mad: