View Full Version : Where does it say I'm a co-pilot?
Hello
I did a type rating on a JAR25 aircraft 3 years ago in the States for my UK JAA ATPL. The checkride was conducted in the right hand seat.
My licence states that I have the rating with Restrictions: NIL
I called the CAA and they said as far as they are concerned I could fly as PIC.
Firstly did they make a mistake when they issued my rating or do the UK authourities simply recognise that you know how to handle this particular aircraft regardless of seat?
My latest checkride was done in the right-hand seat and the box SIC was ticked. I am assuming that I cannot fly Left-seat until I have done a PIC check-ride, is this correct? I have been PIC in the past on a different JAR25 aircraft.
Where can I find regulations covering upgrades specifically for private ops?
Any info would be great. Thanks :confused:
The situation in JAAland is currently a bit confusing, since there are quite some differences regarding type ratings and annotations. The UK took the simple and easy way, other countries really do issue COP or PIC type ratings. COPilot allows flying from the right hand seat only, PIC left hand seat only, for right hand seat flying one needs additional training for operation from both seats, which has to be repeated every simulator check.
However how that translates into non-AOC ops i have no clue, best to ask the CAA with which your license is registered how they see things. There might be some changes with the new EASA rules, however remember there are opt-out clauses until 2015/17 depending on which part and many countries use those, we will have a very rough license situation ahead.
An LST or LPC carried out on the holder of a UK issued JAA licence will result in a rating or a certificate of revalidation which does not mention seat or role.
An OPC is a different matter as the Company will have you sitting either LHS or RHS or either; it still does not affect your licence or what it says in your licence.
sheppey
10th Mar 2012, 12:46
It is stranger still in Australia. It is normal for newly graduated CPL pilots to obtain a command type rating on a typical jet transport such as Boeing or Airbus, being conducted in the RH seat since the syllabus for a captain and first officer are identical - except for one important difference. And that is the rejected take off procedure. With few exceptions the major manufacturers recommend the pilot in command has the responsibility for the decision and the actions to reject the take off. Traditionally the captain usually operates from the left seat.
During the command type rating training in a simulator, the question comes up if the applicant is being trained in the right hand seat, then who makes the decision to reject when normally the captain in the left seat decides and actions the reject procedure. So the applicant in the RH seat starts the take off run and has an engine failure. He then relinquishes control of the aircraft to the occupant of the left seat who does his bit and aborts. At no stage of the proceedings did the RH seat applicant for a command type rating, make the decision to abort or indeed initiate the abort actions. Yet at the completion of the course the applicant who was trained in the RH seat without ever having made the decision and the actions needed to reject the take off, is awarded a command type rating.
This is sometimes overcome by having the applicant sat in the LH seat acting as captain. His support pilot does the take off from the right seat and experiences an engine failure before V1 requiring an abort. The LH seat occupant takes over control and makes the decision to reject and does the reject. But the situation never arises in this sort of convoluted `command type rating` where the applicant not only does the take off from the LH seat but also is required to make the decision to reject and conduct the manoeuvre itself.
Confusing? You betcha. And all because most applicants for a command type rating are destined to be first officers and therefore choose to do the command course from the RH seat. Recently a first officer trained via this method was asked to conduct a crosswind landing with a 35 knot crosswind component. He made a huge hash of things and was unable to control the aircraft simulator and crashed with excessive sideways load. He explained that as a first officer in the airline he was prohibited from handling in crosswinds more than 15 knots component and had never done a 35 knot crosswind take off or landing in the simulator.
Yet his licence displayed he had a command rating on the 737. How on earth could he have been legally awarded that command rating when he had never been trained to land the aircraft (simulator) at its crosswind limit?
As ajd says, most ratings are 'P1' which has NOTHING to do with being 'Captain' and you do NOT complete a 'Command' course as a CPL in the RHS. In the UK, the 'P1' rating allows you to operate as 'PI u/S' if your operator allows.
You become a Captain ONLY by completing a (CAA) approved course conducted by your operator - and in the LHS (except for helicopeters). As several pop stars have shown, in private ops you can put on 4 (or more) gold or silver bars, sit in the left hand seat and swagger around when it suits.
I have never heard of "upgrades specifically for private ops?" You just .... do it.