Dates on AIS Plates

[Roff]

I have just downloaded an example plate from the
AIS website, Liverpool EGGP ILS DME NDB RWY 09 (Testing new printer)

And the date shows (4 JUNE 09) Is this correct or should i be looking at these plates elsewhere for more upto date versions? i.e. Jepp manuals

Roff

[Immortal]

That is the date the chart changed for the last time. So in this case the chart hasn't been changed since june 2009. So it's up to date.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Always strikes me people believe there could be better sources of information than the official instances - where would you think Jepp &c get their data from?

ah, stop, no, let me reword that.
"Better sources of information" should read "Sources of better information". The official instances have shown markedly poor performance at presenting their data in human readable form, thus creating a niche market for data reformatters (and, probably, consolidators) like Jeppesen.

Their data can never be better than what bureaucracy has to offer; but OTOH their presentation has every chance.

[Roff]

Jan, what a prick!
Why would i know what the official source of information is?
Why would i know where other manuals got their information from?

It always strikes me that people make assumptions about other peoples qualifications!

Would your next door neighbour know the answer to my question?

[Jan Olieslagers]

Sorry, no personal offense meant. And I did take it for granted that you had been taught about the AIP being the sole official source of information. That point was repeatedly stressed in my ground class. I assumed you were a qualified pilot, yes I did. Again, my apologies. And no, my next door neighbour is not a pilot.

[Genghis the Engineer]

It is a fair point, this is a pilot's website and even the NPPL air law, let alone all licences above that, teach that the AIPs and ICAO charts are the primary information sources, and everything else is derivative. Even most flight simmers will be pretty knowledgeable about that stuff.

Roff if you change your profile to show no flying experience then people might notice that and reply in tones that make more sense to you.

G

[fwjc]

Blimey Roff you're a bit harsh on Jan there! Jan's response was perfectly reasonable if talking to a pilot, even a post-solo student pilot would have the basic knowledge to understand what was written since most schools require the Air Law exam to be passed before sending solo.

Since you refer to downloading plates for Liverpool, it would be a reasonable assumption to make that you might be, at the very least, a post-solo pilot. As Genghis says, this is a pilot's forum.

Jan - similar applies to the official and unofficial NOTAMs services with the AIS being much less user friendly than SkyDemon, for example.

[The Grim EPR]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but Roff you appear very unpleasant from your posting to Jan.

I suggest you go away, have a think about what you've done and come back when you can behave more appropriately (armed with an apology).

Ideally, just don't come back....

[Roff]

Firstly i do apologise to Jan, I jumped down your throat at the first instance and shouldn't of.. Sorry! I can actually see by your response your not quite the person of which the picture you drew. Sorry again

Secondly, I was sure the AIS was the MASTER of plates however the date 09 threw me a little so i asked a simple question which required a simple answer.
And i got it straight away 'thank you that person'

or

Do pilots 'with a slight bit of doubt in mind' ignore asking a question in fear of the idiots attacking with sarcastic and UNHELPFUL answers?

I think i have made my point :ugh:

[Jan Olieslagers]

Ideally, just don't come back....

And that's overmuch said for my taste. Even if a mistake was made, everyone has the right to make mistakes. If we're not willing to learn, what are we doing on an internet forum?

[fwjc]

The only sarcastic response on here occurred after you'd posted a bit of an unkind comment. The responses up to that point were reasoned and informative, albeit based on a pre-requisite level of knowledge that was assumed based on the given context.

Personal attacks in public, even if genuinely wronged, don't help much, but your apology makes up a lot. Perhaps the other rude poster would consider the same courtesy.

[Contacttower]

Secondly, I was sure the AIS was the MASTER of plates however the date 09 threw me a little so i asked a simple question which required a simple answer.Just a point about them I'm not sure I would regard them as "master" for any practical purpose. They don't have RVRs on them and therefore will not reflect the latest round of changes in legal RVR minima from JAR-OPS to EU-OPS. Also they only state OCHs rather than actual MDA/DAs on them and sometimes need to have system minima added to get a valid MDA/DA. For the UK I'd only trust Jeppesen for plates for real world use.

Other European AIPs (like France for example) are much better though...

[BackPacker]

Secondly, I was sure the AIS was the MASTER of plates however the date 09 threw me a little so i asked a simple question which required a simple answer.

I agree it's a bit of a longshot, but if you want to make absolutely sure that nothing had changed since '09, you could trawl through all the "AIRAC changes" documents that describe changes to the AIP documents, for each AIRAC cycle (28 days).

Oh, and for any changes more recent than the latest AIRAC cycle, you'd have to check the NOTAMs, obviously.