Learning to fly in the US

[cheechm]

Hi there,

Just in case anyone was interested, I'm going to learn to fly in the States. I'll be writing a blog at Earning my Wings Earning my Wings » my journey for a PPL (http://flying.nrlx.co.uk) for anyone who wants to follow. Hopefully I can be informative as possible, and even help future PPLers choose the right path.

Thanks

[alland2012]

Hi,
I'm also on the journey of getting my PPL in the US.

Already got my TSA clearance, which was a breeze actually, the dept's I dealt with could not have been more helpful, maybe because I was already over in Florida helped expedite the process. Once I had picked which flight school I was going to train with, (I did discovery flights with 4 flight schools before deciding on Tailwheels Ect. who are based out at Winter Haven airport (KGIF)

The TSA application was pretty simple, filled in the forms online, arranged to go over to Jet Blue Airline admin offices at Orlando int. airport Jet Blue are registered with the TSA to do the fingerprinting, they did my prints and electronically sent them to the TSA. My TSA clearance then came through within a week.
Then next stop was for my medical, which I had done by a doctor who has offices based in an hanger at Stallion 51 they are at Orlando Gateway Airport Kissimmee (Stallion 51 fly a couple of P51 Mustangs & Harvard T6 warbirds out of there) Doc Busch one of the principles there is a former US Navy Pilot, one hell of a interesting guy and a very professional doctor who made me feel at ease, and the medical was a completed with the minimum of fuss (PS. anyone over on holiday in Orlando, pop over and visit Dr Busch, he is very enthusiastic and loves to meet fellow aviators, he will be happy to show you around the P51 Hanger - you can even get to fly one for $3,000 per hour !)

Anyway with all the red tape out of the way, it was time to begin my initial training, When I returned to the UK I did the ground school studies using the Gleim Pilot Training Course, I chose a US study course because it made sense as my training will be in the US it contains all the FAA requirements and rules including the differences in US air space to the UK airspace.

I arrived back in Florida during December and immediately passed my FAA written exam, following that I managed to get in 10 hrs of in air flight training before I came home again after Christmas.
I am booked to go back in mid March for 6 weeks; I have a 3 weeks accelerated course booked at Tailwheels with the same CFI and same 172SP that I have previously flown. Hopefully after my 3 weeks I will be in a position to take my oral exam and check ride and achieve my goal to get my PPL, if I need a bit longer then I have the time scale available to do more before I leave to come home.

Cost wise I am not totally sure what the final bill will come out at, probably around $10,000, But I am fortunate that we own a holiday home and car in Florida, so once we (my wife and myself) have paid for flights, our living expenses are no more than when we are home in UK, in fact they are probably a little cheaper because we don't need to have the central heating on all day, and pay rip off prices for petrol!

Sorry for high jacking your thread, just thought I would join you and tell anyone interested a little of my personal journey of flight training in the USA.

Good Luck with achieving your Goals.

[Dave Gittins]

Interesting ... and raises a few questions ... where in the US ? Why in the US ? How long do you plan to take to do it ?

Can vary from a fantastic experience to highly frustrating .. but I guess if you are about to embark, you've done all the homework.

I'll look out for the Blog as it progresses.

[HWEST]

It might be more expensive, but I find you have a much higher degree of variation in the UK; most importantly in the type of weather conditions you experience.
Also, if you spend longer doing your training, you will encounter changes in the seasons and there's more change of experiencing different circumstances.

Might be interesting to hear the pros's and cons properly...?

Good luck in your training.

[Paris Dakar]

alland2012,

Check your PM

[peterh337]

This one is a popular one here :)

In the USA, in the right location (not Florida) you can get assured good wx so you get continuity of training. Flying 2x a day the skills build up rapidly. US training is IME (FAA PPL, IR, CPL) very thorough and more so than equivalent papers over here, but the training schedule takes care of that. You come out a much better pilot.

In the UK, people fit the training into their "life" and together with the UK wx they end up taking a year.

My FAA IR diary is here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/faa-pplir/index.html). A possibly slightly out of date TSA/Visa checklist is there also.

[alland2012]

Peter your diary makes for a very interesting read, and very imformative, must have taken you quite a bit of time to compile.
Thank you.:ok:

[proudprivate]

It might be more expensive, but I find you have a much higher degree of variation in the UK; most importantly in the type of weather conditions you experience.


For high degrees of variation, go to Northern California :}
What good does 1200 BKN -RADZ do for a pre-PPL student ? That he learns that his day-off is now wasted ?
Actually, the weather in the US has much more extreme variations than in the UK (if that is what floats your boat).


Also, if you spend longer doing your training, you will encounter changes in the seasons and there's more change of experiencing different circumstances.

I'm sorry but that is the BIGGEST CLAPTRAP I have heard since long. It is much more efficient to get your license over and done with in a relatively short period abroad and then use an instructor on an occasional basis in the UK.

If you're a beginning pilot and have to cancel three times in a row because of sh1te UK weather / sh1te aircraft / sh1te disorganised FTO, you end up needing more total time (and more £££) to get the ticket.

[cheechm]

Interesting read peterh337. I notice you mention this:

Flight Safety in Farnborough (01252-554500) who didn't make any charge; apparently they get paid by TSA..

I phoned them a couple of weeks ago and they claimed it would cost me around £200. Does anyone know what the latest accurate figure is?

I'm actually going to do a JAR PPL, in Florida (Fort Pierce). Going to a school called European Flight Training. I'm sure it's been discussed on this forum. I've scheduled for a month, budgeted for 2 weeks extra after that (for accomodation, food, training etc...). Luckily for me I'm not on a time restriction nor am I restricted by flights (which are completely transferrable upto 24hrs before the actual flight).

Hopefully I'll be able to get some info for future pilots onto my blog.

PS. Anyone got any tips or anything I should know?

[peterh337]

Yes, I gather they now charge.

I suggest you give them a call re pricing.

You can also get fingerprinting done at many or most US schools, probably for peanuts, but that may delay your training.

[Mickey Kaye]

I'm really not convinced that the USA is any cheaper.

If you do your homework you can find schools in the UK which are pay as you go and offer a PPL for under 6 grand.

I also know a school that will knock off over 30 PPLs this summer and do so year in year out. Their students will get there PPL in twenty days or less and with 95% of them getting through in minimum hours.

[peterh337]

That's probably true (or as dammit as near true) BUT what you cannot do in the UK, unless you are extraordinarily lucky, is fly 2x a day for 4 weeks.

Whereas in say Arizona you get ~363 VFR days each year.

[Mickey Kaye]

It's totally true - and you more than welcome to come and see it being done.

I do agree that the UK doesn't offer 365 days a year pure VFR but come summer time there is more than enough flyable days to knock a PPL off in 20 days.

I would also add you get top notch instruction with full pre and post flight briefings something that your not guaranteed to get in the USA.

[Kengineer-130]

Sorry but learning in the USA is half the cost of the UK, simple as. I did my PPL in 2006 for £2995, including a night rating. I also did 27 hours extra flying, and including the flights there & back, food, beer, taxis & a £300 headset, etc etc I spent just under £6000. That's a hell of a saving on uk prices, and I had an excellent dedicated instructor , and a couple of excellent instructors who flew the odd hour as progress checkers.

The bulk of the PPL is about learning to operate the aircraft safley, and that can be done a lot quicker & cheaper in the US' than here! It also leaves you a lot of change to fly with UK instructors to get familiar with UK airspace etc :ok:

[peterh337]

The USA used to be much cheaper. I got my FAA IR there, 26hrs TT, for about $3-4k and that included airline tickets. The same amount of flying, with the hotel residence usually implicit on the FTO scene if training intensively, would have cost 3x to 5x that in the UK even if one could do it in the same hours.

But I stayed in a crappy motel, cycled to the school, did self catering, and the costs out there were a lot lower then.

The biggest benefit is that one gets one's head down and gets on with it, which builds up skills fast.

Florida wx is OK but not guaranteed so there is a significant risk...

Mickey - where is your school? Sounds interesting.

[Vans Pilot]

I regularly fly with FAA PPL holders wishing to obtain a JAA licence or JAA licence holders that have trained in the USA. Now I am not an FAA system knocker in any way. I respect and like a lot of their more practical approach with less bull s**t, however, one thing for sure that I can tell you in my experience that you will return and be 1). Poor on the rt 2) unused to such complex, cluttered and unfriendly controlled airspace 3) very unused to the weather. You will either seek no training and likely scare yourself or infringe CAS, or you will seek training and end up spending the same or more!
Nicer weather in Florida though! ;)

[soaringhigh650]

Why is it generally so much more expensive to learn to fly in Europe?
You have landing fees and AVGAS is almost double the price.

Are people simply richer and/or willing to pay more?

[peterh337]

The table comparing the FAA IR with the JAA IR, at the start of this tome (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/jaa-ir/), is quite interesting.

If you compare line by line you can see that nearly all of the "Euro extras" are set up as blatent business generation measures. There is not a single item which could be thought of as enhancing safety.

But this isn't just EASA. This excess goes back as many decades as anybody can remember. What EASA has done is produced a huge raft of new regulation, a bit of which is good/sensible and a lot of which is useless/pointless. And a big chunk of it is a finger-up at the USA.

[Sam Rutherford]

Second thumbs ups for Dr.Busch and Tailwheels Etc.

Cheers, Sam.

[cheechm]

For those who are interested: I've just completed my first solo. Having an amazing time. Check my blog for some pictures etc..

[BobD]

Congratulations on your first solo. Had a quick read of your blog, and it made me very jealous, it is very reminiscent of my own training in Florida last year. Your experiences sound very familiar, I also had the time of my life.

Best of luck with the rest of the course.

[Katamarino]

I believe the following list is factual, but I'm sure I missed some items.

Airport landing fees, FBO 'handling' fees, ATC fees, avgas 250% higher (tax included), fees to create and issue initial pilot licenses, fees for renewal of limited period pilot licenses and ratings, mandatory "differences training" sign-off for any aircraft type (whether reasonable/not and with instructor), no learning to fly in your own privately-owned aircraft, no independent flight instructors, flight training companies licensed with fees paid, archaic and complex training for IFR rating, 20% sales tax applied to every item bought and every service purchased in relation to flying - including flight instruction and mechanic's labor, no independent mechanics, workshops licensed and fees paid by maintenance companies, complex maintenance paperwork processes involving multiple parties - 4 x price for annual inspections including annual taxation/fees once the work is done, no A&P mechanic inspections allowed for parts airworthiness - parts must come with paperwork (often precluding used parts), aircraft manufacturer advisory service bulletins made mandatory plus they must be performed by licensed mechanic.

It seems to vary a little country-to-country, but not a lot.

I think most of the additional expense results from government minimizing its aviation related costs and maximizing its revenue per operation, versus providing a service or enhancing safety. Reduced economies of scale compound the direct impact of the above.

Additionally, European governments just like to suck up far more money to waste. All taxes are much higher, not just aviation costs. It's a pretty sick place, frankly! If you thought US politicians and bureaucrats could screw things up, you should take a look at Europe!

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi soaringhigh650,

To all the items so far listed, I should like to add the following.

The UK has a population about 20% of that of the entire US, living on an island just slightly smaller in area than Wyoming State.

This population is heavily concentrated in the South-East of this island, which means there is considerable demand for land, which pushes up the cost of any form of land use, whether it is an aerodrome or anything else.

Hence the cost of operating something as land-intensive as an aerodrome is enormous. You can pay thousands of pounds a year merely to park or hangar your aeroplane and in the South-East at least hangarage is in desperately short supply. This is a persistent problem if you own a wood and fabric aeroplane.

We also have stringent laws governing land development, so it becomes extremely expensive, time-consuming and difficult to create new hangarage.

Any attempt to create a new aerodrome, or even reopen an old wartime USAAF airbase currenty under growing crops, would surely cause a storm of protest from the local noise nimbys.

The only reason we still have as many aerodromes as we do is because many have indeed survived after World War II. Over the years since then, however, we have gradually lost a long succession of aerodromes as building developers with pots of money have gradually got their grubby paws on one aerodrome after another, or previously recreational aerodromes have become 'regional airports' strictly for commercial air transport and from which general aviation has been systematically and deliberately 'priced out'.

BP.