Proviation customer care problems

[mark one eyeball]

Has anyone had trouble with the after sales service provided by these guys? Seems invisible, they dont answer emails and no return of calls

I wont buy from them again...be aware!

[HWEST]

I've often had cause to go back but only to ask about the products I've purchased. For example, I bought an Icom transceiver and needed some additional accessories; again for a Vertex. They've always been helpful and called me back with further advise as required.
Perhaps an off day?

All the best.

Harold.

[HWEST]

I wouldn't ordinarily write, but inthe past I had cause to read about another aviation supply company on Pprune and it put me off buying there, such is the power of the Pprune.
However in this case I wish to side most strongly for this firm from whom I have just purchased again (Bendix AV8OR Ace); I purchased the wrong Memory card however the lady at Proviation actually arranged for the correct card to be sent along with returns packaging for me to send back the other free if charge.

This contrasts with experiences where we have had truly lousy service from other, larger, companies; particularly 'forgetting' about my order, simply not updating me at all.

Not here. Communication is good by which I mean I have consistently had excellent service on the telephone and a thoughtful after sales experience to boot.

This last order promptly made me return to this post as something had to be said on the basis of recent experience. I wouldn't want to see it marred due to other threads about 'that other company' with which I thankfully haven't traded with.

[patowalker]

I have only bought one item from Proaviation, but I was very pleased with the service and the price.

[abgd]

I recently had an issue with an order and only managed to get through to sales - not support whose line was busy. It did get sorted out eventually though and whenever I talked to people or emailed them they were helpful.

[Aeramic]

I ordered a Cessna towbar on 24th Feb, and Proviation took the money straight away through Paypal. Then nothing. I chased by email on 29th Feb, and was told delivery would be in "1-2 weeks". Then nothing.
I chased again by email on 13th March, got no response.
I chased again by phone on 23rd March but got the 'Customer Services' answer machine. The machine said it would call me back but it didn't.
Still no towbar and £84 spent. Ever tried complaining to an answer phone?
Are they still trading?

[Obi_Wan]

It seems many people have had different experiences with ProAviation.

I have regularly bought from FlightStore and Transair, but recently had cause to try ProAviation. Due to various reports on PPRuNe about people having not the best experience, and having failled to get a response from them on a previous occasion, I called them to order and was pleasantly surprised. Same products for less money and next day delivery. Delighted! Cheaper than FlightStore (which, to be fair, takes some doing), and very helpful staff who threw in extras that others had declined to.

It's just the one experience, but it was very positive.

[Pegpilot]

Oh. Ordered some wing stands for my glider 2 days ago from these people before I read this strand (I know, I know....). I'll keep you posted as to progress....

[abgd]

Well, the update to my comment was that my order eventually got filled, about 6 weeks after I'd placed it. I managed to get in touch via sales, and had a pleasant Email conversation about what had gone wrong with the order process and had no indication that the company was other than honourable. However, it does seem that my experience was not an isolated one.

[GeeWhizz]

A 6 week waiting time for me too. The first and last time I ordered from Proviation was for something small. I forget what it was but perhaps a stopwatch clip for a kneeboard or something equally unimportant. This was perhaps a year ago now but I've not been back when another more punctual outfit exists.

[Pegpilot]

Further to my promise for an update, today I celebrate 50 days since they took payment and my order remains unfulfilled. Three separate promises of delivery along the way all passed without event. The compensatory easter egg was lovely but I'm now wondering whether I should ask for milk or plain chocolate pennies for my christmas apology.

Oh, nearly forgot....


AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH !!!!!!!!

[enq]

I recently bought a lightspeed II headset from them - it got to me within 24hrs of the expected delivery time & they spent a lot more on postage than they charged me in order to meet the deadline so I'm pretty happy with them & will buy again.

I also recommend the lightspeed II - apart from excellent noise cancelling capability the blue tooth functionality means I can use it as an indiscreet hands free phone kit on the way to the airfield, wandering round Tesco etc. :E

Good weekend all, enq.

[piperarcher]

I remembered this thread from before.

I ordered a yoke mount / clip holder from them just over a week ago. The payment was taken promptly. Their order confirmation suggests items will "take 2-3 days" and "We try to ship most orders on the same day", but nothing has arrived yet. The item was in stock at the time, and is still in stock. The tracking status on my request says ""Your order is currently being prepared.", We are in the process of picking and packing your order. Look out for this order status changing very soon. We try to send all orders placed before 1500hrs on the same day."

How long does it take to pick and pack a lightweight paper clip with a mount on it? I called them a few times - no answer. I have sent an email, though I am not hopeful at the moment.

It seems some people rate them highly, but I am joining the group who dont. These guys arent a patch on Transair or Flighstore.

[Sudden Stop]

Very familiar story going on here. Today I googled Proviation attempting to find out if they had gone bust - found this thread instead.

We've got the same problem - order placed on an item that's 'in stock', expecting dispatch same day and delivery in three. Two weeks later and no information. Tried calling, tried emailing (three times over the course of a week) and no answer, no reply, no item.

The money was taken immediately (so that part of the company seems pretty prompt :rolleyes: ) which started to make us think that the company was bust or perhaps it was a bogus website or something. My partner sent one last email informing them that they were to cancel the order and refund us or we would be claiming the money back off the credit card.

That sparked a response promising to get the order dispatched by Friday.

We're have zero faith in Proviation now and don't trust them to honour the warranties or deal with any after sales issues. The order is cancelled.

My advice is to avoid this company like the plague.

[Dave Gittins]

The stories above seem very mixed but are the reason why Mrs DGG and I buy everything on Barclaycard so if there is a problem a Section 75 claim will get your money back from Barclaycard. Who I assume just retrieve it from the retailer.

In the past where the retailer was clearly a shyster; Barclaycard even threw in a £5.00 apology.

DGG

[piperarcher]

As a follow up. I did get a reply to my email informing me the plate holder clip thingy was being dispatched, but there was a late delivery in the US, who in turn hadnt informed Proviation. I followed up with a reply and asked why their website said the item was in stock, and is still in stock, but they had to wait for something to be sent from the US. They didnt reply :*

It seems to me that Proviation is just a middle man. You order from them, they take your money pronto, and then they order the goods from (maybe) multiple suppliers. This differs from Transair and FlightStore who presumably have a large warehouse with their own stock, and an up to date and reliable stock inventory system. I wont bother ordering anything off Proviation that I want ASAP. Transair will generally get you your stuff to your door within 24 hours.

[Proviation]

Dear all,

We were uncertain about replying on here, and unsure whether companies are allowed to post; therefore we'd just state the following:

- We will try to address issues on the forum but can't comment openly on orders but just on general service related queries.
As will become clear below- we need to concentrate on our service and not spread too thinly to responding on forums. We have a Facebook page, email, blog and phone where you can ask questions about orders.

*Please also use live chat online to communicate with the company on our homepage at >> Proviation Pilot Shop - Leading Flight Equipment, Pilot Supplies, Aircraft Equipment, Aviation Headsets (http://www.proviation.com) *

- We want to re-assure, and defend the company. It's a young company, built on sound values, and since Pprune is big- it seems prudent to at least say "hello- here we are". Threads such as this can be incredibly damaging, especially to small companies (which we are not ashamed to be).

We have ventured into offering products not previously available in the UK. We learnt from the US and Canada where pilots are treated to a much larger range. We saw some great products to make available in the UK. We are proud to be an Aircraft Spruce approved distributor- and Sportys- where we meet all their requirements.
We hold good stocks of all day-to-day pilot essentials. We only hold a smaller stock of new products. If we need to order more, we always email our customers to let them know.

We perform 'special-orders' for some products; especially aircraft parts. We promulgate the despatch times in-store and by email immediately having received an order.

We have been approved to sell ALL items in our store- either by approved dealership direct with manufacturer, or through one of their distributors. You will ALWAYS have full manufacturer back-up insofar as Warranty and ALL warranty matters are handled IN-HOUSE. We will also arrange free collect & repair on ANY item which develops a fault.


If anyone has ever been left without information- we apologise. There's nothing worse than being in the dark. We are working to improve this with addition of customer service staff.

About the business:

We're over 5 years old. We date back to 1999 in aviation consultancy. We're a family-run business. We have a good supply chain. We hold more and more stock all the time. We're lean, and efficient. We aim to survive in a difficult market.
We are well funded, and have a super customer base whom we respect enourmously. We have served over 20,000 customers worldwide.
We don't spam our customers. We price match. We price check. We offer longer warranties on most products. We offer a free return service. We collect and repair faulty items. We have a very, very broad supply chain- if you need a product we don't sell, we can find it and supply.

Areas we can improve on:

We have repaired our email which was being subverted by problems with 1&1 and spam filters. A lot of messages weren't coming through.

We need to be more realistic- some specialist items like wing stands were made from scratch. Our store only lets us show a 14 day max wait. We have asked the developers to fix this. In the meantime we email about wait times.

Some customers posting on here ordered items manufactured-to-order. We were not realistic about the delivery times and we apologise sincerely.

Most common products are in stock at all times. We have tested the market and did find a number of cases where our competitors couldn't deliver but didn't communicate this. We were hoping to ensure we never did the same.

We have at least 4 people to answer phone calls at all times. A substantial investment in this service to ensure no call is unanswered.

We are delighted to be part of the UK and European aviation scene. We are run by pilots - and post on here in our other guises as aviation geeks. Our management comes from the world of airline and business aviation and airline quality management. We also have a vested interest in air safety and have a background in air safety investigation and research.

'Proviation' comes from 'Professional-Aviation' - an aim to bring professionalism to all aspects of flight- including private flight, to make the skies safer. We started to sell pilot supplies seeing a gap in the market for new products.

Going forward:

We took on call staff (as above) and opened a second small warehouse in the south East. We have a superb supply chain backed by the largest suppliers in the business. We are becoming main dealers on more and more lines and we are investing in bringing new products to market, especially for the iPad.

We hope to give you a good service everytime you come into contact with us- so look forward to speaking to you.

Sincerely, we hope this post serves to communicate the business in the best way possible, and that it is well-received.

Best wishes.

Update as of July 2013: New online chat service is a sure-fire way to leave a message or get an instant response if you need to query an order.
Shortly there will be a dedicated phone number solely for customers who've already ordered.

[piperarcher]

This is a fair post and it's nice to see a company being open and up front as to how they work, and what they aim to bring to the market (as opposed to being defensive and combative) and promising to resolve some issues that some people have clearly experienced. Customer Services is a rare thing these days, but the posting here, to me, is admirable. I think there is a market for some US manufactured items not for sale by the other well known aviation companies. Good luck...

[jb144]

They take your money and then nothing!
They havehad £600 of mine for 8 weeks claiming they have had non delivery of their stock....
That I can accept.... but it is when they will not respond to E Mails -Voice messages - or any type of communication that I find really infuriating. As for Pay Pal they just do not want to know!

My advice buy elsewhere!

[manix-cs]

Had the misfortune to spend £1,140 with Proviation recently.

They took my money on the 25th Jan, then emailed me on the 31st Jan to say they didn't have any in stock, but they'd be in stock within a few days.

I said OK.

The unit turned up on 6th Feb.

It was faulty, so I emailed them that afternoon asking for a replacement.

No reply by lunchtime on the 7th Feb so I emailed again.

No response by that evening, so I filled in the on line return form.

Phoned twice on the 8th Feb, no reply, but didn't leave a message as I was away for a long weekend.

Phoned 3 times on 11th Feb, no reply to any of the calls, leaving a message asking them to ring me back on the first call of the morning.

Phoned my credit card company on 12th Feb to instigate a dispute and charge back procedure for the amount I'd paid.

On 13th Feb, a sudden flurry of activity, 3 emails in quick succession offering to pick up and replace the unit.

I'd already ordered elsewhere so declined and asked for a collection and refund.

The collection was requested for the next day (the 14th) and I got a tracking number back and enquired if this was for a collection as requested. Surprise, surprise, I didn't get a reply. I stayed in all day.................

And guess what? No collection happened

On the 15th I got another email with another tracking number which STILL didn't tell me when the collection is due to happen and which claimed ( inaccurately) that the email on the 13 th HAD told me when the collection was due, but that it didn't happen because of an ' exception'.

i'm sure some people on the forum will have had a good experience with this shower, but I can tell you, I'm never ordering from them again!

[piperarcher]

Shame... They seemed in their previous post to be trying to make things better and I genuinely hoped they would be a company one could order from in the future.

I think this is why so many companies are folding these days (generally). Only those who offer good customer service; have good online processes; have a good reputation; and most importantly are lightning quick to deliver will survive. Thats why I shop online now, and in the UK and in the aviation world, Transair are second to none. Pretty much anything I order, arrives the next day, and it's the right product, it works, it does what it says on the tin, and so on. Because I trust them, I wont use anyone but them now.

[Steve6443]

I also recommend the lightspeed II - apart from excellent noise cancelling capability the blue tooth functionality means I can use it as an indiscreet hands free phone kit on the way to the airfield, wandering round Tesco etc.

.... if you enjoy wearing your discrete Lightspeed Zulu II headset around Tescos, make sure you buy the obligatory "Pilot Inside" (apologies to Intel...) T shirt.....

[merrett]

hi

returned a small item last month (5 yr warrenty) have not benn able to contact them since either by e mail or phone anyone have an update

[davidatter708]

Would not use them again. Ordered an item which was in stock. Paid for next day delivery 4 weeks later 5 phone calls and 3 emails. It eventually turned up. I did get my delivery cost back but the lack of a sincere apology from the company would not entice me back.

[The500man]

I bought the clarity aloft headset through them. They took the money and didn't deliver. After I contacted them they said they had a lot of fraud to deal with. It was time sensitive so I cancelled the order and got refunded. I later ordered it again having had to borrow a headset for a few flights and paid through PayPal. I had no problems at all. My only complaint is that they didn't know I'd been charged the first time and didn't contact me to say they thought there was a problem. I had to chase them instead.

I would order through them again but not for anything urgent and not with a credit card.

[Proviation]

Breaking radio silence a little here, but this is an update to our last post:

I'm very receptive to the comments on here in an aim to keep service standards high. We're one of the only internet-based businesses to have had a thread started, while a lot of our competitors have avoided this. So we have to face the music! I'm sure all mail order companies have problems from time-to-time; we can only respond to the main concerns here. I for one set out our service levels based on my own experiences- good and bad, with internet (especially aviation and marine) e-commerce stores.

High-value orders: Such as the Dynon order and Clarity Aloft- we have a traffic light system from our payment processor. These often raise 'red light' concerns and we hold despatch and request billing details from customers. There is a lot of fraud in electronics at the moment, and we have been stung more than once. We regret any delay this causes, but it's always to protect the cardholder. We normally email customers as soon as we receive the order and ask them to confirm their billing address. This pretty rare however.

Our warranty service for repairs is comprised of extended warranties, and a commitment to free returns. For high value items we'd arrange a collection, repair/replacement, and return. For headsets, GPS, and essentials, we also try to loan out equipment so you don't go without.
We're still stretched on manpower, so warranty requests have been picked up slower than I'd like- we're issuing a new email address to catch warranty requests via the site, and enable us to intercept these as quickly as possible, using technology a little better!

As usual, we'd appreciate any concerns or requests for info to be directed to our orders email address.

[We permit these factual responses to customer complaints posted here, but will not allow this to include self-promotion in the forums. Paid-for advertising is, of course, encouraged. Mods]

Hope to go on serving your needs well in 2013. All the best. .

[merrett]

ok so the other day i was pretty fed up as i could not make contact with proviation either by phone or e mail / they have now contacted me and i am completly satisfied with there after sales / i will be a little more patient in the future

thanks & sorry nick

[manix-cs]

Thought I'd give an update........

I finally received a refund on Friday 1st March (5 weeks after payment was taken from my card and 3 weeks after my first complaint).

That's good (though my credit card company would have refunded me anyway).

What's not so good is Proviations attitude that it is perfectly acceptable to ignore customer complaints for a week or more (or perhaps until the customer posts a complaint on PPRUNE?), or indeed, if we look at merret's first post........ 3 weeks or more.

Overall.

Did I get my money back? Yes.

Am I happy with a shoddy, second class service? No.

Will I buy from Proviation again? Absolutely not.

[dwmk]

Be Warned! Never Buy Anything from Proviation Unless You Are Prepared to Lose your Time and Money.

It has been already 5 months and the order has not arrived yet from Proviation.

1. 13 Nov 2012, Order #O-13900 was placed. 2 Twin Handle Leather cases with handling and shipping at a cost of £185.95.
2. 13 Nov 2012, the full amount of money taken from Credit Card.
3. 28 Nov 2012, sent an inquire email.
4. 2 Dec 2012, Nick replied saying that the order was taking extra unexpected longer time from a supplier.
5. 18 Jan 2013, emailed again to request mailing the order or refunding in full.
6. 21 Jan 2013, Nick responded saying he would be checking with the supplier to see if stock was available.
7. 14 Feb 2013, emailed Nick again, requesting for sending the order within 2 weeks, which according to his website the stock was available at that time. Or if he wished, he could refund the full amount.
8. 14 Feb 2013, Nick emailed back and claimed he wanted to make sure that the delivery address was correct and promised I would be receiving the order within 2-4 days.
9. 1 March 2013, Nick was asked again why the order was not received as promised.
10. 6 March 2013, received Nick’s email saying this time he would use UPS, provided I would pay extra fare for the express service.
11. 7 March 2013, I emailed back to Nick saying that I would be able to wait an extra few days, since I have been waiting for such a long time, it would not have had any difference for me.
12. 7 March 2013, on the same day, Nick answered that he is sorry, saying that this time, only one case remains, and he needs to order more stock.
13. The cycle continues ...

[Moonstar]

I ordered a Go Pro camera but after receiving an email to say it might be sometime in April or May.... and will be sent on first come first served basis felt that laying out £374 odd was a bit too nebulous to wait for an item and seemed a bit strange as if the Company wait for orders and money before getting the stock in.
So asked for refund, after all they have a 'consumer orientated' policy and refunds guaranteed etc etc....
Was told a couple of times money is being refunded and to date nothing and no replies except one from 'Nick' telling me that Paypal want to take the money from their bank account.....and he was trying to sort it.... nothing since.....several calls this week, no replies/answer machine/being fobbed off with Nick isnt there and no idea when he might be??...
I am actually feeling quite sick that I placed trust in what appeared to be a genuine company and they have taken my money, I should add that the money was taken on the day I cancelled the order! Its not like it's tenner .....
:yuk::ugh::*

[carlmeek]

Proviation are utter Carp and nick has no idea of the simple principles of customer service.

I eventually received my 900 pound life raft, but it was without doubt the worst service I have received from any company. I cancelled the order, emails ignored, replies not sent for days on end. Nightmare.

I think they are basically honest, just useless, so I'm sure you will eventually get your money back. They seem to disappear a lot.

[Moonstar]

Last night, after putting reviews of Proviation on consumer sites, one of which I understand 'they are a member', part of my money was refunded yesterday evening. I wrote an email to them and pointed out that there was an outstanding sum still due.

Today Nick rang and we spoke about what had happened and how disappointed I was and so were others. I said that his communication was appalling and that his customer care needs a lot of work. I pointed out that we as customers were not cash cows but people who were not only sending him money for goods but placing our trust in him which he has betrayed.

I suggested that he did not offer such customer care policies if he couldnt live up to them and that if he was to sort everyone out now and also publicly let people know it may help towards restoring some faith in him.

It may interest you to know that he operates with him and his wife/partner, and they use a call centre hence perhaps the reason for the strange responses when telephoning.
I said I would tell people that my particular problem has been resolved.

However, I would never use this company again and will say that Nicks problems are due to himself and not of Paypal/his customers/his 'call centre', nor anyone else. If you run a business then you face whatever that brings with it, personal problems aside -thats life you deal with it-I dont believe he runs his business using good practice and would advise that he review his methods.
I hope those who are still waiting to get matters resolved do so without further delay.
:)

[bingoboy]

I was also disappointed with non delivery and less than prompt communications. Refund did eventually happen but far too many broken promises.

[riverrock83]

Trying to decide whether to buy a Sportys SP-400 at the moment but with Proviation appearing to be the only UK supplier I'm a bit wary.

In the opinion of you guys, would I be better to buy from Sporty's USA, paying the Import Duty and getting no legal assurances, or buying from Proviation and getting the backing of UK / EU law? Price ends up about the same.

As far as I can tell, if they have something in stock (ignoring what their website says) then you are likely to get items quickly and well packages with no problems. If something isn't in stock (and the people in the call centre wont know whether it is in stock or not) then its a lottery - but no one has ended up out of pocket - just very frustrated.

What you you do?

[Proviation]

Hi there. To address some concerns; we are always going to see delays on some orders not in stock, however we are increasing our deliveries from the US to weekly orders.
The SP-400 transceiver is on an order already.
We also recommend the FTA-310, which just came available as an alternative.
Yes, we are a family run business but this shouldn't be touted as a bad thing...We started very small, but growing efficiently. We all operate the company full time around the clock. We have a good team working behind the scenes in despatch as well as taking calls. While someone on the phone is not always up-to speed on all products, we'll always try to call you back with more information as we have a lot of real-world product expertise.
Our stock management is tied into the website, and we have probably the most comprehensive and far-reaching supply network of any aviation store in Europe. And, we have excellent relationships with all our suppliers. So whereas some stores will sell-out, we will always do our best for you and your order to procure stock via the fastest means possible.

Aviation stock management is a balancing act- no aviation product is mass-consumed; and some stock can sit on shelves for months or even years! These are symptoms you may encounter further down the supply chain too.

Anyone is welcome to direct any outstanding concerns or enquiries to feedback'at'proviationshop.co.uk. While I am aware we have been behind on our emails, this is improving, but some recent PayPal-related issues have caused us horrendous problems, and to save this happening to anyone else, we've removed PayPal from the website. It'd be unprofessional to go into too much detail here, but suffice to say that they can impose radical account changes in order to manage their business, which can have a less than positive impact on the business which has to then supply a huge amount of information in order to maintain smooth running of the account.
In the case of the camera below, PayPal debited the account before our account entered issues, which delayed the refund. However we did explain on the site the lead-time with the camera at the time, which has proven incredibly popular.
With regards to the missing bag for dwmk- this was lost on the way to Australia by a company who took on Australiasia shipments- we now use UPS, for the better. We sent a new bag, which wasn't quite what he wanted. We refunded him in full, and let him keep the bag. So he now has a free case. We do sincerely care about customer care.

Finally, we have gone to great lengths to gain accreditation to just about every consumer organisation going- including SafeBuy, Trusted Shops, ISIS, ShopSafe. Trusted Shops especially gives you an extra level of buyer protection. They will cover you up to £2,000. We go to great lengths to be audited by these organisations.

Aside from these, we built the business, and named it, around 'professionalism' - and this is what we hope to bring to every dealing.

Again, we can't post regular updates or answer order queries here, but it always seems sensible to answer these concerns publicly. We do value the support of all of those who have tried us for the first time (we are now into out 5th year) and accept it may be difficult to try out a new firm. Thankfully we have served a huge number of customers over the last few years, mostly without any problems. We do hope some people may take the time to express occasions where they have had good service, since unfortunately the title of the thread has attracted some of the more problematic experiences.

Wish best wishes
~ 'Proviation'

[Dave Gittins]

Further to my comment on 3rd Oct last, I am prepared to take Nick's explanations at face value and have just placed an order.

Sincerely hope all goes well.

DGG

[DB6]

Order placed 21 April, paid for by Paypal. No delivery or replies to requests for updates after 12 days.
Order cancelled after 18 days and refund requested, still no reply.
Request repeated and as per above email, forwarded to 'Nick'.
Still nothing, Paypal dispute raised, it will be interesting to see if that does the trick.
You judge :hmm:

[piperarcher]

The problem is these days on the internet, service is everything. For me the 3 key things are 1: Up to date stock items displayed on the website 2: Super fast delivery 3: Good customer contact solution by email or phone, with a quick resolution. I feel a bit sad about writing this because the comments from Nick seem genuine and heartfelt, but from comments on here his company in my opinion exerts none of these consistently at the moment. There is a reason why Transair do so well ;-)

I think if Nick can actually sort out his supply chain problems / stock issues and be able to delegate customer service to trained and reliable people, just maybe there is a good honest bit of business to be had. I agree there is a market for a UK distribution point for some of the mainly US products, but if it isn't quicker and easier and less hassle than ordering direct from the US anyhow, its pointless. But I do wish Nick and Proviation well and hope there will be positive comments too.

[Dave Gittins]

Placed my order on PM of Wed 8th, just had an email from UPS to say it was left in my front Porch at 11.39. Have asked Mrs DG to check it's the right stuff.

[Lakhan]

AFE PPL book set ordered on 21st Jan. Part order came through. HP was damaged. Got replaced a week later. Book 3 (NAV/MET i think) didn't arrive.

1-2 Months of phone calls and emails still no Book 3.
Sent letter to one of their offices about taking legal action.

Got Book 3 on on 22nd of March.

Oh almost forgot, they gave me a £5 voucher of next Proviation order. How kind:mad:

L

[Dave Gittins]

I ordered a Bluetooth GPS receiver worth £90.00 (so my iPad will work when it can't see the sky) and a foam mic sock for a DC Headset worth £5.00.

Package only contains the GPS receiver not the mic sock. Mrs DG phoned the 0800 number which told her to ring the )1582 number. Lady on other end has no answers and will email me when she does.

[manix-cs]

.....considering the general proviation record.

Hope your mic sock problem is resolved quickly Dave, but you won't be getting much sympathy if it doesn't.

[nickbrettfly]

I have ordered a significant amount of equipment from Proviation in the last 6 months and have always been impressed. In particular, they were very accommodating on recent delivery requests for Sennheisers and personal gear to arrive downroute and this was handled very well indeed with liaison with our handler. I have always found them to go much further to offer stand out support than other retailers.
First dealing was in warranty repair for my Zulu 1 which impressed me as they collected the set, fixed it in Germany and sent it back to me within around a week I think. :ok:

[Lone_Ranger]

Things that make you go..............:hmm:

[manix-cs]

:D :D :D :D :D

[abgd]

Well, it's interesting to compare this thread with the recent Trainsair thread, where one person has complained and many others have leapt to their defence.

[Dave Gittins]

Further to last Friday .. no mic sock and no email. Mrs DG has just rung again and "customer services" don't see it as their duty to follow up and tell me where my mic sock is. All they'll do is ask "dispatch" AGAIN to send me an email. When told I couldn't put an email on a DC mike they seem to be surprised and can do no more than ask dispatch to comment by email. Assume their phones only work for incoming calls. At least the GPS receiver works a treat.

Yes I know it's my own fault.

[Lukesdad]

Sorry to perpetuate the negative news about Proaviation, but I am also in dispute with them over the non-delivery of an item.

Difficult to say whether they lack organisation or whether there are more fundamental problems.

In the meantime, might I suggest using your credit card for any purchases, just in case.

[Dave Gittins]

Further to my last and to put the record straight. Proviation had sent me a string of emails which for some reason Norton had categorised as Junk. (perhaps Peter Norton has shares in Transair :E ).

Amongst those mails were ones saying the GPS reciever would be sent on Thursday and the DC mic sock on Monday (so I would have been fully informed if Norton hadn't mucked it up).

The things were dispatched when Proviation said they would be and I got them both 24hrs after dispatch.

Case closed as far as I am concerned.

[Saab Dastard]

Dave,

Thanks for setting the record straight.

I've had similar problems with messages getting trapped by the upstream spam / junk filter at my ISP, so it can happen to the best of us. :O

There's a lesson there for us all - check junk / spam folders before putting megaphone to lips!

SD

[Pilotech]

I've used them a few times now. The time there was a problem out of their control they seemed to e very keen to make sure I was happy in the end. All good for me and I still use them.
Not the prettiest of websites but the search works well if you know what you want

[FOZFF]

I ordered an Alpha MA-1 jacket on the 13th April. Listed ex-stock and paid via PayPal. My money was taken immediately. on the 15th April, this company emailed to say- "We are expecting stock to arrive in a matter of 7-10 working days only".

At the time I thought this would be reasonable, little knowing what was to happen from here on in! By the end of the month there was no further contact from them. Several emails were sent to them requesting information, all without reply. We then phoned "orders dept" several times and have spoken to four different ladies, who were all very polite, but could tell us nothing and whilst promising to come back to us, never did. I started to wonder if this company was a "Scam".

I emailed the company on the 3rd May to tell them to cancel the order. The "orders dept" promised to do this and send a confirmation email. They said my PayPal refund would take 3/5 days. No email, no refund. After a threatening email,the owner emailed back offering to get the jacket since he didn't want me to be disappointed. It was supposedly on it's way from the USA. I told him that the order was cancelled and would he please make my refund.

On the 13th May, I received an email from the owner stating that the order had been cancelled and the PayPal refund would be made, but might take 3/5 days! Still nothing,it is now 18th May, so I sent another very strong email threatening legal action! At which time I opened a PayPal dispute. Finally, yesterday, 28th May, PayPal advised that his refund had cleared!

This is the most dreadful on line buying experience that I have ever encountered. I don't think the company is a scam company now. It is just the most badly organised group I have ever come across, headed up by someone who is prepared to come out with the weakest unbelievable excuses which burble along without really telling you anything. The "orders dept" is actually a call centre and have no idea what is going on.

My problems, I think, are based around an ex-stock item that wasn't. If it had been in stock, this review might have been quite different, who knows? I got the impression that this person was prepared to go to great lengths to hang on to my order instead of being "up front" and offering cancellation in the first place.

You make your own mind up whether to deal with them. I would never ever deal with them again.

[DB6]

As above. I heard nothing from these clowns despite emails and telephone calls (none of which got through to a human). Opened a Paypal dispute and - well, well - an email the next day saying supplier problems etc. Paypal found in my favour and refund issued, shortly followed by an email from 'Nick' claiming to have found seven emails from me in his spam folder (I had sent three) and promising to refund my money (already refunded by Paypal).
Bull****. Don't touch with a bargepole. Friendly posts on Pprune don't cut it when the reality is rubbish.

[FOZFF]

Forgot to mention that in the midst of this fiasco, we re-ordered exactly the same item from Flightstore Pilot Shop on May 10th. The jacket was with us on the 14th May. All this whilst we were still trying to get our PayPal refund from Proviation!

[Steevo25]

I am afraid I am another one that has had problems with Proviation. I wish I had looked at the reviews before I ordered.

I didn't actually do the ordering, my friend did who helps me maintain my aircraft. I was looking for a Flightcom 403LSA intercom and a Mingda vertical card compass to fit in to a new panel we were installing in the aircraft.

Looking on their website, it said both items were available from stock on a 2-3 day delivery. This was around 6 to 7 weeks ago and neither have yet been received. We were told just over a week ago (after many attempts of getting through to someone on the phone as it was always and answering machine) that the Mingda was now in-stock and we would receive it on Tuesday (that's the Tuesday just gone). We were also told that the Flightcom would be in stock this Friday for delivery Monday 3rd June. The following day after being told that, we got an email apologising for the delay in the order and that they really didn't have a clue when the items would actually come in. They stated issues with Flightcom as being the reason and no reason why the Mingda wasn't being delivered.

As of today, I was told that the Mingda was now in and being shipped overnight but no news on the Flightcom. Today we have cancelled the Flightcom so we will see how it goes about getting a refund and see whether the Mingda turns up tomorrow.

Incidently, even after this, their website still says that both those items are available from stock. Our panel has been sitting on the floor for a long time waiting for the wiring to be finished and to be installed in the aircraft. All that is there now is a hole for the compass and a hole for the Flightcom. This will now cause us problems as the panel was cut and prepared for a Flightcom going in so we now either have to use something else and modify the holes or try and cover it up. If we had known that the items were going to take this long then we would have either chosen something different or not gone that route. The Mingda is available at many places on the web and in-stock. We could order a Flightcom from someone else but the only places seem to be in America so again we would be playing the waiting game. If they had been up-front and honest at the start then we would not be in this situation and would probably have ordered something else from them or used them again in the future.

They offered an alternative to the Flightcom but you couldn't really call it an alternative. They offered a portable pilot intercom that didn't have any of the features of the Flightcom that it was originally purchased for. I guess it's one they had in stock that they wanted to shift. The alternative was only offered a couple of days ago.

We order quite a bit of aviation stuff each year and will not be making the same mistake again of using them.

[kindupnorth]

Oh Dear, I wish i had seen this thread prior to ordering on monday. :ugh:

The website states the item i ordered would take 2-3 days delivery (Lightspeed Zulu 2 headset). I placed the order monday so i could receive the item in time for the weekend. Today is Friday and they have just told me that it hasn't been shipped yet !
I also sent an email 2 days ago and tried to contact them via the online help, no response. They have told me on the phone today that they will check to see if they can send it today. I asked if they could send me the item next day delivery so i have it tomorrow, if they cant i want to cancel the order. I am still waiting for the phone call back. All phones now go to voicemail. Arghhh ! You expect this kind of service from discount electrical retailers but not for a specialist aviation retailer !! Sort it out Proaviation !! I will follow up this post with the rest of the story. Lets hope they sort it out or i certainly wont be ordering anything from them again !!

[Steevo25]

Just to be fair and complete, the Mingda compass did arrive this morning. This was 7 weeks after it was ordered.

[kindupnorth]

An update.

I got through to them on the telephone, the lady said that she would call the warehouse to see if they have the item in stock. I asked her to call me back once she had done this. She then did it whilst i was on the phone. The number for the warehouse was engaged so she said she would email and then get back to me.

I then got a phonecall back from a previous online message i sent across, they tried to reply a while after i had sent the message but i had the window minimised. I believe the chap was called Nick, he said there has been a mix up and the supplier had sent the wrong headset to them (helicopter connections) they had managed to source another one and they are shipping it next day Saturday delivery !

A bad situation nicely resolved ! Its a shame i had to jump up and down for it but I will give them their dues !

So long as it arrives tomorrow as promised i wont have an issue using them again but i may be paying for next day delivery in future !

Thanks for you help ! :ok:

[Lukesdad]

As an update to my earlier post, I have now put the matter in the hands of my credit card company to try and secure a refund. The matter is ongoing.

On a positive note, I have just ordered two items from Flightstore and had them delivered within 48 hours.

You pays your money and....................................................

[Proviation]

As mentioned before, we can't commit to responding to requests on here.

We'd rather be actually dealing with assisting customers. No doubt we'll come in for more flak on these forums if they are over-used.

Besides, it wouldn't be fair to air all issues publicly, but in respect of these problems, please private message through here - especially @ #Lukesdad: no-one should ever have to go to chargeback. We're keen to find out what order this pertains to and to rectify this with haste.

Note to anyone else reading this: We’re not certain that some of the comments left here are of a real customer of ours. If you’d like to learn more about who we think wrote the review and why, or if you just have some questions about us or our policies, please feel free to contact us.

We are undertaking to drastically improve lead-times shown the website and to make these clearer where necessary. The site is kept up-to date on stock levels and there is an automatic bar-code bases system coming in September.

In some cases, products have become unavailable at UK sources, but the site hasn't been changed to reflect this. In light of the Flightcom intercom- this hasn't been sold in the last three years and subsequently the UK agent for this product had ceased stocking, forcing the supply to come from overseas.

Quite a few avionics companies have adopted a strategy of building-to-order, or with long intervals between production runs, which doesn't speed up procurement on some of the specialist items.
This said, we're committed to providing difficult-to-source items in the UK market, albeit with better communication if items are delayed. Yes, we do expose ourselves instead of playing it safe on some of the run-of-the mill products, but we feel the UK is greatly under-served in terms of the availability of superb, and better-value aviation equipment enjoyed by the rest of the world.

We sincerely regret the negative experiences posted on here - if we can compensate in any way then please, PM this account.
Our stocked range of commonplace items is expanding all the time, and we are pleased to say that most orders ship on-time.

[FOZFF]

I do believe that this company has a good product range and potential service, but this service is useless if he keeps letting people down in the way that a lot of us here have been treated. Just take a moment and analyse what he is saying in the above post. Important to him maybe, but of very little interest to frustrated customers. Some people use other very descriptive words, but it is what I refer to as "talking and saying nothing".
OK, my problem is sorted out because I finally got my refund, but I can see that there are lots of people out there who's problems are unresolved.
I have suggested to Nick that the only way to succeed is to be totally honest with his customers up front and if he has to tell some people that the delivery of their ordered item is to be extended, he must tell them. If he loses a few orders this way, then let them go, reputation is far more valuable and in the long run will be repaid many times over.
He tells me that he has worked extremely hard to build up this business and I am sure he has. So why try to spoil it by "talking and saying nothing"?
Nick, get your act together and sort out your dissatisfied customers as a priority. Let's see the tone of these reviews do a complete about turn.

[Blues&twos]

Precisely my thoughts FOZZFF. Whatever is causing the various problems is of no interest to customers at all. They have paid for goods and service. If you run a business it is entirely your responsibility to deliver what you have contractually agreed to deliver.And consistently not communicating with your customers is unforgivable. Longwinded explanations for continual appalling service mean nothing, and however hard you work (or claim to), will not keep your business afloat unless you stop telling everyone what's important - we know what's important already -and start actually doing something about it. Pretty simple really.

[bingoboy]

Have recently purchased many non aviation items from a UK company who never debit my account until despatch and advise on ordering if the goods are there to go and if not when they are due.
On one instance they advised me that delivery would be a week later and offered me the option of placing the order with a competitor. I could live with the extra week so waited and they of course waived the delivery charge.

All told this is how proviation should run their business.

[manix-cs]

A bad situation nicely resolved ! Its a shame i had to jump up and down for it but I will give them their dues !

So long as it arrives tomorrow as promised i wont have an issue using them again but i may be paying for next day delivery in future !

Thanks for you help !

So did it arrive as promised Kindupnorth? Most of the posts on this thread indicate that promises (where you can actually get a response), are broken.

Just take a moment and analyse what he is saying in the above post. Important to him maybe, but of very little interest to frustrated customers. Some people use other very descriptive words, but it is what I refer to as "talking and saying nothing".

You're right FOZFF, all of Nick's responses have been long winded and flowery with little or no substance.

[Steevo25]

I just thought I would add an update to my posts above regarding my order with Proviation just to give a fair account.

After posting on here, Nick from Proviation contacted me via email and asked me for 7 days to complete my order. The 7 days were up yesterday and as he promised, the remainder of my order did arrive.

It has taken a long time but when Nick got involved, he did honor his promises.

[Nacius]

Hi!
I bought a headset a month ago. The item was in stock but a few days later I got and email from proviation saying that the item was not in stock and they where waiting a delivery from the supplier.
After a week waiting I cancelled my order. After 2 emails and 2 calls I got the confirmation email that my order was cancelled the 7th of june, still no refund. :ugh: Be careful with proviation!!

[eecya]

I ordered a headset, headset bag and kneeboard from Proviation over a month ago.
I got a mail to say items were not in stock (despite the website showing as available in stock).
It was a 1.5 week wait for the headset but to date still no bag and kneeboard.
The delivery note with the headset said the other items were to follow in 2-3 days. That was weeks ago
So in chasing them up:
1 phone call which was answered and I was told Nick wasn't available and he would get back to me - he didn't.
1 email that Nick replied to offering me Pooleys replacements. I replied in the affirmative but then have received nothing or had a reply.
1 further phone call that was unanswered so I left a message and got no reply.
Today I have emailed again to have the mail returned as undeliverable. I then went online to check the address on the Proviation site...whereupon it doesn't load as its "under construction".
All of this: the delays, withering communication and eventual lack of contact is symptomatic of a struggling company going under..I hope not but being new to this forum and reading other posts I thinks its doubtful that my items will ever be received.

[kindupnorth]

I received the headset as promised on the saturday ! I am still yet to receive the spare ear pads and mic sock that were supposed to come with it tho. They said they are on order from the USA (3 weeks ago)

Ive just tried their website and it doesn't appear to be working .....

[Proviation]

Hi everyone,

We'd like to point out that yes, our site is down. We're working with 1&1 at the moment to restore access. So far we don't know what the problem is and they're not being very helpful.

We're hopeful the shop will be back online this evening. But, if anyone needs to check anything at all with an outstanding order then please do PM me.

It seems emails are coming through in fits and bursts (again, a server error), so we will reply to these and will be doing so over the weekend so to avoid any back-log.

The free ear seals and mike socks are being offered with the Zulu. The mike socks are Zulu-specific and so will be sent with the ear seals when these come in. They've been sent 'USPS' from the States, so they are crawling along for which I apologise, but we'll have them in this coming week I'm sure.

For missing items from the other headset order- I have PM'd you. We may not have got your message to change some of the outstanding items.

UPS's website was down too yesterday- so we all have problems from time to time. This luckily came back online in time to be fully utilised.
The website being down is not a sign of anything sinister, so it's important to us to post here as things can quickly spiral out of control.

As ever, we're receptive to feedback and will not hide away from ensuring we provide a better and better service as time goes by. We're pilots too, so please do engage with us.
A focus in particular is that we're solidifying our supply chain and negotiating with suppliers overseas on shipping and minimum orders, so this way we can import faster when required. This has a bearing on, for example, the delivery schedule for items like the headset mentioned by Nacius which was an FAA-approved unit, not readily available here in Europe.

As of this week we also have a new addition to the team. This has really helped us be able to call people back quickly to answer any queries with orders. It also helps us be more proactive in communicating in the event of a problem.

If anyone has any suggestions for products they'd like to see us carry, we'd be keen to hear about them. In the meantime we'll continue to ensure excellent availability across the current range.

Best regards,

*Update: We have been backlogged due to the site downtime, but working hard to overcome this. The store has been back online for 24 hours.

Please note that in any event anyone is unhappy, you can email [email protected] and we'll look at it.
We all own the business, and so feedback is really important to each of us.

We've also invested in being accredited by Internet Retail organisations, including buyer protection for all customers up to £2000. So this should always provide reassurance.

[piperarcher]

I'm curious how the reviews on this site are mostly extremely high.
Proviation reviews | Customer reviews of Proviation (http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/www.proviationshop.co.uk)

Is it that we are in the minority and its only us complainers who have posted here? But for every one of us, there are 25 happy people. I find that hard to believe, but I wonder....

[The500man]

Could you please look into stocking CEP? I don't think anyone in the UK stocks it at the moment, and since it is a US product I think it might be right up your alley to be their UK supplier.

Also Oregon Aero parts would be cool too! :)

[maffie]

At the request of Nick, this post has been deleted whilst he resolves this ongoing problem.

Matt

[johnpipping]

How I wish I'd read this forum prior to ordering my new case from Proviation.
Nearly a month now, with the website saying the case is in stock, and apologetic emails telling me they will send it via overnight delivery. But it still never arrives. So the case cannot be in stock then, can it?
Now the website is down.
Don't bother using this company. Apologetic email replies do NOT constitute customer service, and false/misleading statements next to goods advertised are surely contrary to UK consumer law.
Proaviation is NOT PROACTIVE, and once it has taken your money, appears to operate in a manner that suits itself, not the customer.
Looks like another chargeback in the wind. Thank goodness for credit cards!
And never again.

Happy flying all.

Update: Nick eventually got in touch and offered a different case, which I agreed to, then the original one ordered became available. It finally arrived by snail mail, even though it was promised by overnight on several occasions. In fairness to Nick, he did try his best to resolve this, but I have to say if items are not in stock then it should not state that they are on the website. Being "in stock" at a remote manufacturer or stockist is not the same as being in stock and ready for supply by the retailer, is it? It's a shame because I think the company is inherently honest, and for the most part trying it's best.

[James1809]

Wish I'd read this thread before.. Ordered three "in stock" items last week (June 25th) totalling about £90.00 (CRP computer, a kneeboard and some VFR nav. log cards) and in the confirmation e-mail it claims they aim to dispatch in-stock items within 24 hours of order but still no dispatch e-mail after nearly a week.

So I checked the order status..

Delivery status: Your item (s) have been ordered from our supplier and are awaiting delivery. Please bear with us. Email [email protected] for more information.

Why did Proviation say all the items were "in stock" if they have had to order them from suppliers?

Had I known about this I would have ordered from elsewhere as I need the computer desperately for my Nav exam.

If/when my order arrives, it will be my last from Proviation, didn't even receive an e-mail from them informing me the items weren't actually in stock, not a happy customer.

[James1809]

UPDATE: After my initial cynicism and a phone call yesterday to Dannielle at Proviation, I was told the systems had crashed and so an update couldn't be given to the status of my order but they would call me back the next day (today).

First thing this morning I got an e-mail notifying of an update to my order status, stating the order had been shipped. Shortly after, I got a personal call from Nick at Proviation explaining the situation and delay in processing, he informed me the order had been shipped today and should be with me tomorrow, much to my relief!

In light of this I'm retracting my previous statement of If/when my order arrives, it will be my last from Proviation but it just would have been re-assuring to receive an e-mail in the first place explaining the problems with the system and subsequent shipping delays.

Providing everything arrives in good nick, I won't hesitate to use Proviation again, hope the problems with the system get sorted!

[mad_jock]

22 and so so much to learn.

[manix-cs]

22 and so so much to learn.

Nick is a very smooth talker (I have personal experience with this) we've seen other instances in this thread where, because Nick has promised it will all be OK, a complaint has been withdrawn BEFORE the situation has actually been resolved.

Hopefully James will not be disappointed, but as you indicate MJ, why on earth do people post a withdrawal BEFORE the situation is resolved?

[kindupnorth]

Update. 3+ weeks and still no spare ear pads or mic sock which were supposed to be shipped with the headset. Started a PayPal dispute requesting a refund of the value of a spare set of ear pads priced up from flightstore. PayPal looked into it and awarded me the refund.

Nick (pro aviation)......

If the ear pads do turn up In the interest of fairness I will return the money via PayPal but only when/if they drop on my doorstep. If not I will buy some elsewhere when mine need replacing.

I trust my actions and intentions were/are fair

Mike

[James1809]

Stuff arrived at my door yesterday as promised and all accounted for.

Agreed I was a bit eager to back-track on my opinion of Proviation, probably just down to wishful thinking!

Hope everyone else gets their issues sorted.

[manix-cs]

Glad to hear you got a good result James.

[CaptainChaos981]

Said a Sennheiser I wanted was in stock. Ordered it. never got it.
Eventually did get the refund mind.
But it turned out it was discontinued after speaking to another pilot shop. So I called the sennehsier office to complain. Turns out these guys are not even official legit dealers for Senn. Suggested I use there official "list of partners" , you know TA, Pooleys Flight Store as those stores actually stock the products.

PS: Had a jolly over to the coast. and mentioned to them about this. Didn't surprise them. Said they do this with every product available and then try and find some way to supply it.

Advice: Stay clear. there is enough professional stores in the UK who actually stock the products.

[cockney steve]

Sounds like a typical "Drop-Shipping" setup.

The essence of a drop-shipping trader is simply that they take orders and pass them direct to the manufacturer (or distributor) to ship,anonymously....taking a cut along the way. customer pays the D-S trader who then pays the supplier.

Works fine IF the partners play properly. Unfortunately , the trading-agreements don't seem to be good with this company and customers are disenchanted.

WRT the Sennheiser case, It's possible that Proviation would hope to source from a recognised stockist at a discount not available to the retail customer,- depending on the discount, there might be room for a small price-cut to the customer.
Many makers / distributors shed crocodile tears over these practices....they can say that their authorised agents do not undercut to compete with each other,-whilst selling another unit "through the back door"

[Proviation]

Just to provide some information in order to respond to recent points raised.

In response to the specific Sennheiser issue raised here, it should be noted that as a company we work closely with Sennheiser. The details of this relationship and our supply chain are clearly not up for discussion publicly, and we ask people to respect this. What matters is that we're able to offer a sensible price while respecting Sennheisers' reputation for a quality product. We have the necessary contracts in place with UK-based servicing agents to ensure our customers have warranty support. We also collect, repair/replace, and return for free.

Insofar as stocking goes, we always try to have Sennheiser available as they are one of the top choices of headset. We have never knowingly advertised a discontinued Sennheiser online. The recently discontinued ones are HME-43 and HME-100. These should have been withdrawn immediately. We have contacted CaptainChaos981 via OM as we have been unable to locate the order so far. We're sorry to hear there may have been an issue with this being listed and sold. If this were to happen, we'd normally try our level best to secure last-stocks of any item this happened to. There are normally a few units available somewhere in the world once a product is discontinued!

We don't sell an item then 'hope' to get hold of it. We'd be interested to know who said this! At the end of the day, we're trying to build a solid business. It is designed to distribute products and serve customers. There'd be no sense in building a business without a robust supply chain behind it.

We aim to hold stock on all popular items. The site is updated with stock-positions manually. In the interests of professionalism we have never mentioned any other aviation supplier. But there are occasions where an item may be drop-shipped no matter what the company. It's a reflection of good supply chain arrangements. This simply allows us to provide an item more quickly when requested, especially if we're in an oversold position.

The aim is to be very careful on what we stock. This is what enables us to be competitive on price. We don't have sales. Products should be sensibly priced at all times. We work closely with and respect all our suppliers which include all main aviation distributors worldwide. We are actually sole UK distributors for 9 brands and growing.

We used drop-shipping more when the company was younger, but now we have a greater despatch capability and desire to fulfill the majority of orders in house. This means control over each order, ability to provide tracking, and observe special instructions. We use UPS at no cost to the customer, which we hope is good value.

With respect to the Lightspeed Ear Seals mentioned earlier. We're sorry these were/are so late. We did on this occasion refund the monetary value of the ear seals, but as these were offered free, we'd not normally do this as the offer would be open to abuse. Lightspeed ear seals do last a long time- obviously they'll degrade before the headset will, so we hoped the offer of free replacements would be well received after 1-2 years of flying when the seals might start to become shabby.

[Lone_Ranger]

Its all well and good stating manual stock updates as if thats some sort of superior service, but if its just hopefull fantasy ........?????

First class waffle though, I'll give you that

[CaptainChaos981]

You said

"it should be noted that as a company we work closely with Sennheiser."

not what Sennhieser said.???
:confused:

[steve mcqeen]

Paid for a GoPro2 May 14,kept me waiting and saying that they are waiting for a delivery, then they tell me that the GoPro 2 is not being manufactured any more

On there web site it states that they are a agent for GoPro so they should know all about the product and its availability,and even now on there web site the GoPro2 is still being advertised,so now l am on phase 2, to get my refund, lots of telephone calls and emails with no response, with all the un answered telephone calls, l could have been a customer wishing to place a order.This company has got to get its act together, customers call and place a order and has there money up front,
and then they have locate the order, its money for old rope, you can understand why Amazon are so successful with there customer care,wish now that l had brought the Go Pro from Amazon.As my friend said when he checked the Proviation web site, it looks very professional. You just get sucked in.

[Buttino]

wish now that l had brought the Go Pro from Amazon.As my friend said when he checked the Proviation web site, it looks very professional. You just get sucked in.

Why would you NOT buy it from Amazon? £235.81 Amazon vs £249 Proviation. Amazon also have it in stock now.

[CaptainChaos981]

After seeing Pvs waffle above i called Sennheiser back
Now confirmed proviation are not a Sennheiser dealer
Have never been one and they have no idea where they are getting them from

Ps: Trustpilot (http://Www.trustpilot.co.uk) is good for a laugh
Some poor souls on there :-(

[mad_jock]

they are obviously a bunch of chancers.....

[Blues&twos]

"We don't sell an item then hope to get hold of it. We'd be interested to know who said this"

You're joking, right?

Go back to the start of this thread and read all the posts again. I'd be interested to know who hasn't said it.

[CaptainChaos981]

Anyone can slap up a website and start selling and then if they do try and work out where to get it from

We had this in my industry - sailing but they don't last
Nowadays the big shops are just as cheap as these type of operations that don't have overheads so why bother

I'll stick to transair for helis, pooleys for charts and flight store for everything else.
Mind you just bought a new elt(h) from Adams. They know their stuff too.
So as you see, plenty of shops without having to risk your dosh with chancers

[Pilottrainer]

Why would you have to be an official Sennheiser dealer? I am a flying instructor and have worked for many flying schools. We have bought Sennheiser headsets from Transair and Pooleys and sold them on to our students. We/I have never been an official dealer but have received discount to resell them. There is probably 500 flying schools around the UK that could do the same. Perhaps you should call Sennheiser and ask them about each flying school? You can use the Flyer 'where to fly guide'.

When you order something online these days it could come from anywhere. Drop-shipping works well. Hence Amazons great success!

Perhaps you have too much time on your hands. The weather is great! Go flying!

:confused:

[CaptainChaos981]

When I buy a headset and don't get it , and the reason I don't get it is it that the person who supplied me is a grey importer and they take my money I have every right to be peeeed off.
I have no problem with getting it from Scfc, I just don't like being lied to.
Sorry for lateness of reply. I have just been flying :rolleyes:

[Pilottrainer]

Scfc?

:D

[R8BYY]

Proviation. Calls unanswered,Emails ignored,Im tired ,hungry and far from home.

Another chancer ripping off pilots ,didnt see that coming.:rolleyes:

[HWEST]

I now run an online furniture business. Yes this is relevant... My spare time is spent in aviation and my past, professional life in aviation spares, brought me to Proviation as a customer. Since then I have acted as a consultant for the past 12 months and shared some 40 years knowledge.
I can tell you that there is a highly professional team behind the company. I can vouch that the company has satisfied thousands of orders successfully in the last five years and has truly established itself.
A lot of words echoing those used in recent TV shows have been used slappdash here. While considering this company v. the rest; consider that PV has established relationships with all of the key aviation supply companies in this country and overseas. I can tell you that aviation companies do work together to service the pilot consumer.
It comes with the territory on this forum, but I know how personally damaging internet forums can be since selling online. People can and do take their experiences public before dealing with them in-house. As a business owner, I used to think; Damn, I could have done, x, or y to prevent this. If only I'd acted quicker.
Do think about leaving feedback with the company directly, however. They are aware of the areas needing improvement and some of them are growing pains. But I can assure you that feedback, sent directly, will be well received. Use the internal messaging system of Pprune for a start.
They have taken on extra staff since becoming busier so to deal with customers more swiftly. Gone are contracted 'workers'. You'll get a personal service. I am proud of my association so far with the company. I am also doubtful that some of the experiences posted here are genuine and I have already made this known to Internet Brands in the USA.

[jwilliams85]

I placed my... seventh order... at Proviation-dot-com on Friday and it arrived this morning as booked. 15 quid gets you Sat AM drop-off at LHR. Nice.

Lifted my spirits as entering hotel with holdall in tow has been a drag. Not so now with my in-line wheels...

[JDA2012]

I feel I should also chip in here as I ordered several items prior to doing my PPL course back in March, including a Sennheiser headset, and all went well.

Ordered on Sat 9th Feb (all price-matched to the lowest prices I found elsewhere and sent with free shipping):
Sennheiser HME 110 Special Edition
Single Headset Bag
Jeppesen Student Kit Bag
CRP-5W Computer
CAA UK Northern Half-mil Chart
Thom APM Vol. 3/4/6/7

All shipped on Thu 14th Feb and arrived on Mon 18th Feb, except APM 7, which was noted on the included invoice as shipping separately and arrived a couple of days later.

[R8BYY]

My personal experience with this company is 2 emails, 6 phone calls to 4 different numbers, all with no response. As for using this forum as a point of contact for a company, forget it. Either send my goods or give me my money back....
Nick has since sent me a pm however his web site does not state that PPRUNE is a point of contact so I'm afraid it is now in the hands of PAYPAL.:

[cockney steve]

Since then I have acted as a consultant for the past 12 months and shared some 40 years knowledge.
I can tell you that there is a highly professional team behind the company.
In the words of Randy Mice-Davies..." He would say that, wouldn't he." :} you don't just have to build a strong house, you have to make sure there are no gaps in the roof, or between the floorboards.
The continued criticism here, suggests that Nick hasn't yet embraced this foundation of retailing to the great British Public.

(I, too, spent most of my working life dealing with them.Judges to roadsweepers, Surgeons to toilet cleaners. you'll always get someone you can't please,but this goes beyond....)

[manix-cs]

I am also doubtful that some of the experiences posted here are genuine and I have already made this known to Internet Brands in the USA

Quaking in my boots :=

Good to see some positive experiences emerging, there are bound to be some. Overall though, when buying, why take the risk?

[bingoboy]

Is there a reason that monies are taken with order placement rather than with dispatch ?

[PaulKerry]

That's par for the course with drop-ship merchants.
He's not going to pass on your order to the genuine retailer until he has your money, now is he?

Paul..

[R8BYY]

Hi there-

Sorry but I noted your post again and wonder if you could please reply to my PM. You indicated you received it?

I think we'd both be better off if we could handle this ourselves- you're writing about escalating to PayPal and yet I am trying to establish comms with you direct!

Thanks & rgds.

Nick, it was only after i posted on PPRUNE and contacted PayPAL that you want to establish comms with me WHY.
Please send me the items i ordered.:ugh: Ps this is a private flying forum not a customer services contact for Proviation.

[manix-cs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proviation
Hi there-

Sorry but I noted your post again and wonder if you could please reply to my PM. You indicated you received it?

I think we'd both be better off if we could handle this ourselves- you're writing about escalating to PayPal and yet I am trying to establish comms with you direct!

Thanks & rgds
.

Nick, it was only after i posted on PPRuNe and contacted PayPAL that you want to establish comms with me WHY.
Please send me the items i ordered. Ps this is a private flying forum not a customer services contact for Proviation.


Strange that. I got a very similar response when I emailed Proviation to tell them I was initiating a chargeback through my credit card company. That is, no response at all up till that point.

[CaptainChaos981]

This is what we I noticed on trustpilot today. I have posted the pdf as alink as the review is bound to be removed soon. but is shows that the MD does not place a great deal of emphasis on consistent communication.

copy and paste into a browser
hem.bredband.net/b851854/com_proviationshop_2013.pdf (http://hem.bredband.net/b851854/com_proviationshop_2013.pdf)

I thought it was illegal to take money for goods you know you cannot supply within a reasonable timeframe.??

Anyway why bother? there is enough real shops out there and I am bored of this now. If you want to risk it go ahead.

I feel the need, the need for speed - whoosh ........

PS: HWEST. a paid consultant singing the praises of its client. Groundbreaking!!

[manix-cs]

Check out this complaint
This is what we I noticed on trustpilot today. I have posted the pdf as alink as the review is bound to be removed soon. but is shows that the MD does not place a great deal of emphasis on consistent communication.

copy and paste into a browser
hem.bredband.net/b851854/com_proviationshop_2013.pdf


The communication chain reminds me so much of my unfortunate encounter with Nick, however Sebastian has the patience of a saint compared with me :)

[Fly-by-Wife]

In case the trustpilot review is removed, I can confirm that it is indeed genuine. Posted by Sebastian Andersson today, with the link to the email correspondence as per the post above.

FBW

[Jonzarno]

I can tell you that there is a highly professional team behind the company.

I can't resist asking: a highly professional team of what? :p

[PaulKerry]

I keep a close eye on TP and save out many of the negative reviews before the flag-fairy gets to them.

How come the reviews of other companies aren't visited by such diligent and eager little flag-fairies ?

Has anyone else noticed that on the whole, only those who post glowing 5* reviews are "confirmed purchasers" ?

My own review was mysteriously flagged down within minutes of refusing Nick's request (although to me it sounded a lot more like a bribe) to remove it.

It was reinstated after I proved to TP that I was a genuine customer, though.
Sadly, so many of the poor customers who've written hard-hitting reviews don't bother getting theirs reinstated.

I keep reading the same old excuses from the dropship merchant, time and time and time again. If he got it right first time, he'd not have to spend his time bleating about how damaging negative reviews are to a business as if we should somehow feel sorry for him for his shoddy practices.

It baffles me as to how he can still show "TrustPilot EXCELLENT 5*" on his homepage when the truth of the matter is considerably different.

From now on, if I want aviation related gear, I will go to a genuine retailer, not some guy and his wife operating out of a one-bedroom flat who in five years, still haven't managed to grasp the basics running a business:
Don't over-promise and under-deliver.
Don't advertise something as in stock when it is not.
Don't take money for something you do not have to sell.
Don't ignore emails, telephone calls or answering machine messages.
Don't break promises to return a call.
Don't break promises to refund.
Don't keep giving pathetic excuses and "poor-me" sob-stories to disgruntled customers.
Don't blame anyone or anything else for your own failings.
Don't spend time and energy running around trying to defend against or remove negative comments and reviews.
Don't infer (publicly or otherwise) that your customers are lying.
Don't make claims on your website that are not true.

It's plain to see that the issues with this particular "retailer" aren't just a transient blip due to a few teething troubles. We can see a long-running pattern. It seems to be SOP.

You're right FOZFF, all of Nick's responses have been long winded and flowery with little or no substance.

Which is why I now call them "Bloviation".



Paul..

[R8BYY]

Re: Problem with order
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proviation
Hi there...

We have been short staffed this last week. But we're nt chancers. A family business and we're dependent on reputation.

Please, send me an email to [email protected] (nick%40proviation.co.uk) or pm me...let's get this sorted out.

Best wishes

Nick


Finally received my order from Proviation,Thanks to PPRuNe and PayPal,and good luck to everyone still waiting for goods.ps NEVER AGAIN.:mad:

[RollsR1]

I also am experiencing the same. How I wish I had found this forum prior to spending £800 with them on 24th May. As with so many others, my money disappeared very quickly and I am still waiting for delivery. I have had 5 separate promises to fix the issue and still nothing.
I made the really stupid mistake of paying by debit card so I can't even pull back the payment.
I have requested a refund 4 times over the last 4 weeks. It hasn't happened.
I am now following up with a solicitor, Nick knows this and still seems completely comfortable to continue ignoring my requests for a refund.
My opinion for what it's worth is AVOID at all costs. If you do buy, use a credit card.
I work for one of the worlds largest aviation power plant suppliers, if we had this level of customer service, most aircraft would now be grounded and unable to fly.

[riverrock83]

Talk to your bank. All the major debit card providers (visa, mastercard, etc) have a scheme which will allow you to get refunds via debit card. Its not as well known about and it isn't backed up by legislation but it does exist. Although it isn't on most bank's websites, by providing the cards they are automatically signed up to the schemes...

google "chargeback"

[Proviation]

The transaction noted above is well-known to us and the buyer made use of SafeBuy support. It is a complex matter which will not be explored in detail on a public forum, but the buyer is not without our full support and that of Safebuy which ensures the matter is dealt with swiftly without the need for chargeback which should never become necessary. As with all the worst experiences which make their way onto this forum, our failure to fulfil the requested order is regretted deeply but will be turned around and the customer will be compensated.

[al-vin-thechipmunk]

I have no interest in Proviation aside from the fact I *used* to work in the pilot supplies sector and found them great guys to work with and highly regarded by their suppliers.

What a bare faced cheek to start a company in an established sector! Actually, they boosted falling sales.

And I tell you what- only a successful, busy company is going to have mishaps. They've told you they're busy. And growing. And taking on staff. If you think PPrune or review sites are a representative sample then you don't know ecommerce. Statisticians much clevererer than me tell you most happy customers don't say they're happy. Unless they're European. Who are by far the best customers I ever dealt with!

The people who complain on here... From what I can make out you got your goods. Or you were refunded. The company even picked up your unwanted goods from you. All companies go out of stock. Well it's the internet- fast sales, late deliveries- manufacturers tell fibs! It happens! Forward planning on stock management requires an element of trust that things will work out. It is a massive time committment

I worked for a BIG company. It happened to us too. But we were forgiven and not trounced about the web- probably- because of our size. I was never not able to speak to someone at Proviation. They've got about 3 numbers and emails and a live chat. If they're busy call again!

From what I can see customers have been on here and said they were happy. Well Google some stats on customer feedback ratios and that'll tell you something about Proviation's largely content customer base. Then ask yourself how it can be that some companies have zero bad feedback. None. Nada... !

We're aviators- yes. Aviation is our prized possession. Some of you are aloof about it. We don't want or expect our aviation supply companies to become like Amazon. We want personable- want a chat with the guy (or gal) about, I don't know- something flying related. This to me is a good service. Especially when for the most part things then go off without a hitch and I'm happy to support any company other than amazon.

If the British consumer is now perpetuating and regurgitating bad views on a company like this and actually using it as a conversation piece then thank god I'm in insurance now...(joke. Please, don't cruelly hunt me for sport for my comments). They've (Prov) even been on here to apologise and give background. They shouldn't have bothered, or wasted their time with the justification if it results in some of the very personal attacks perpetuated here. This isn't a courtroom. It's not even an interesting thread if we're honest!

So again. You got your goods. Or a refund. You would have got an apology, I'm certain of that. Probably they offered to sell you their souls or bend over backwards to let you walk over their hunched spines.


Because I'll tell you this- when I dealt with them- by god did they pull out the stops if a customer had a late delivery or missed deadline!! Drop-shipping exists! Yes and we all did it sometimes! It's part of serving YOU the customer. Nope we don't go out of our way to help the competition. Yep suppliers want and mainly REQUIRE retailers to hold goods. Proviation's no exception.


Go on other pilot shop websites- they actually tell you in black and white that the item you're looking at WILL, without a doubt, ship from somewhere else!! As a customer- you care why exactly? Did it arrive? Yes. Are you now in possession of your order? Yes.

My wife works for a large well -known department store. She has been known to apologise to a customer for a supplier letting them down. It happens everywhere.
Anyone who suggests otherwise is either naive; simply all about a rant, or is a competitor scoring easy points. And they are dead easy to spot a mile off. I've got TCAS alerts on this thread for sure.

[Shoestring Flyer]

Sorry, but you somehow don't get the basics of customer service. If you can't fulfil the order within the timescale agreed by both parties , just give the man his money back now, today....Simples!!

The fact that you may have a pending order with your supplier is not the customers problem....it is yours and you have to bear the risk of that in any business.

[riverrock83]

I obviously don't know anything about these orders (and its going to be different if custom designed components are being produced for a customer) but my (perhaps naive) view is that reputation and customer experience is going to be more important, long term, for a business than getting an item to a customer.

As such - if something hasn't been delivered, and a customer asks for a refund (so they aren't happy with your proposed delivery schedule), unless it is already with the shipping company enroute to the customer, you process the refund and hold that item as stock once it comes in. You can then build up confidence with customers, in that if something goes wrong, there will be little hassle other than the disappointment of not getting the item.

Hiding behind SafePay mediation procedures (or whatever is happening) isn't going to improve your reputation. It is also going to take up time and energy which could be better spent doing other things.

Note: I can understand needing to take money straight away if using Paypal / Sage Pay as you aren't going to have a way to hold the payment until dispatch is ready. Those "Pre-payments" are being held in a secure / separate way though (aren't they?).

Some lines from safe pay code of practice. As I say, I don't know details of any of the mentioned orders above, but some certainly seem to contradict. By being a member of the assurance scheme, Proviation should also be bound by these as well as the T&Cs on its own website (some of which seem to contradict):

3.7 There must be no possibility of orders being accepted which are unlikely to be fulfilled within 30 days.
3.10 There must be no misleading claim made on the website or the order confirmation regarding delivery timescale to the consumer. Where any delivery timescale and/or delivery date is stated the consumer must be advised in advance if that timescale and/or date will be delayed and the consumer’s right to cancel must be made clear.
4.3 The product or service must be delivered within 30 days unless the consumer agrees otherwise. In the event that this term cannot be met, or the consumer’s right to cancel has been exercised, the consumer must be advised in good time and offered a cancellation option with a total refund, within 30 days, of any monies, including delivery costs, paid.
4.5 No payment from a consumer should be processed more than two working days before despatch of the goods or, if it is, should be regarded as a prepayment under the terms of clause 4.6. The website must make this clear either in general or at the point of order.
4.6 Deposits and prepayments must be protected against loss in the event of the retailer ceasing to trade or for any other reason. This protection must be provided by an insurance-backed scheme, a ring-fenced consumer account, independent third party holding of such funds or other secure deposit. Deposits, prepayments and scheduled part payments for bespoke products or consumer-specific services should be subject to clear terms, including protection of the consumer’s funds where appropriate, which are agreed to by the consumer as part of the basis for the contract.

[Blues&twos]

Nick, you seem to be under the impression that if you write stuff down it becomes the truth and acceptable practice.
"Deeply regretted"????? So regretful that you've kept the bloke waiting for 3 months for his order and ignored his repeated (and entirely legitimate) requests for a refund? Not very convincing, is it? It's not like this particular case is a one off, either. The many posters who've shared their experiences on this forum have all said pretty much the same thing. No goods, money taken, little or no response from the culprit. Attempting to talk your way out of it is simply delusional.

EDIT: if you're worried about reputation, you need to actually do something to improve it. The current number of "Views" for this thread is approx 17,600. That's increased by about 100 just today. Think about it.

[PaulKerry]

True to form !

Customer is patient and contacts the "retailer"... he might as well bang his head against the wall for months. It would be far more productive.

Customer makes a public post and as if by magic the shopkeeper appears with promises of "compensation"!

... without the need for chargeback which should never become necessary.

It should never become necessary for a customer to call you back more than once. Do you have shares in BT?

... dependent on reputation...
Yet woefully unable to do the simplest thing to actually earn a good one.
Bear in mind when the genuine retailer ships the right goods quickly and securely, the dropshipping merchant (after having done not much more than take a cut and pass on the order) basks in the glow of high praise.
TrustPilot rankings:
5th out of 5 in the category "Hobby".
25th-31st out of 41 in the category "Aviation", dependent upon how many bad reviews have magically disappeared down the memory-hole at any given time.

Other companies suffer exactly the same problems yet the majority of their review pages look nothing like the one for Proviation.

Indeed, most of the dropshipping clowns on eBay perform significantly better. Is that because they cannot choose which feedback to select for their own webspace? Maybe it's because they cannot advertise "Excellent" on their homepages even when their service is only barely making it to "Acceptable".
Perhaps it's because eBay are extremely reluctant to remove bad feedback unlike TP where a reasonably anonymous click of the mouse can make a truthful account of a customer being taken for a complete mug can vanish into thin air never to be seen again.

The question in my mind is why would any company depend on one of the worst reputations in the business? Such that they have consistently done what it takes to earn such a bad name.

Palming off customers with pathetic excuses and vouchers to spend more with you is insulting especially in light of the fact that six months ago, I offered to put you in touch with one of my clients, the CEO of a world-class business consultancy specialising in Internet presence and digital marketing; dealing with some of the largest multinational retailers the world has ever known and prepared to point you in the right direction pro bono as a favour to me. Your response? "I already have a consultant".
I told you that either your consultant isn't worth his salt or you're not paying attention to the advice you're being given.
Six months later, nothing appears to have changed and customers are still so frustrated at being ignored that they are having to contact the payment merchants seeking resolution.

Here you are, still vehemently posting in defence of the abysmal reputation you've earned for yourself instead of upholding your contractual obligation to supply the goods you have advertised as being for sale.

We can all see that the emperor isn't wearing the finest of clothes - He's stark naked and apparently painfully unaware of something known as "The Streisand Effect".

Paul..

[RollsR1]

Thanks for the useful advice to those who gave it.
For absolute clarity, I would like to post the following comments which will hopefully go some way to answering some of the good points Al-vin-the chipmunk raised.

I am not a serial whinger, whiner or mud slinger, this is the first time I have ever subscribed to forum and posted a comment.....why??
Desperation is the answer. I love aviation and everything about it. There is nothing I would rather do than go flying.....however.....at 41 I have now reached the starling realisation that I will never be able to afford to do it. So the next best thing is to build a simulator for home.
My £800 constitutes 2 years hard earnt savings - clearly aerospace industry pay is not as good as insurance.
So imagine when someone takes this from you and provides nothing in return for weeks on end other than promises that never materialise. Does anyone else consider that thinking about re-mortgaging your house to try an afford to chase your money through the hugely unfair legal system in this country is normal?

Having time off work to trawl round solicitors trying to find one that is also not out to rob you blind? The time off work itself costing you more money?

I am not after compensation, all I wanted was my money back and after reading this thread last night, it seemed that it may be beneficial for me to break my web silence.......guess what.....I have been offered the refund today!
I still won't be confident until the money is safely back in my bank.

Why do people post negative comments al-vin?...I think you have your answer.

Even though my trust in Nick is at absolute zero, I do not think he is a crook. I just think he has bitten off more than he can chew, expanded too quickly, and just does not have the headroom to deal with these sort if issues effectively.

I don't intend to get into a mud slinging match on here with anyone, that was never my aim. This post is purely to help educate some of the doubters that we are not all moaners out to try and finish someone off.....call it self defence.

Somehow, the shine has even gone from my ambition to build a simulator- maybe it will come back in time.

I intend to only post once more just to let everyone know if I got my money back. I will stay a member however as there is some real useful and interesting conversation on here. I only hope that my contribution may be of some use to someone else one day.
Thanks again for letting a non-flying imposter to join your ranks.

[Fly-by-Wife]

HWEST says They have taken on extra staff since becoming busier so to deal with customers more swiftly.

al-vin-thechipmunk says They've told you they're busy. And growing. And taking on staff.
That does not square with
Pilot Shop Update w/c 05 Aug - Fewer staff to take calls. - taken directly from the front page of the Proviation website.

FBW

[CaptainChaos981]

This is not right

He said to my post " We work closely with Sennheiser"

Ring Sennheiser and ask them about proviation. They have NEVER worked with PV, close or far away.

This guy just lies"!!!

FLY-BY-WIFE -- Yes
More Staff!! He has already said he and his wife runs this place.
If the company has fewer staff this week they are probably on holiday ha ha
:)

you must discount HWEST banging on., he has already posted he is a paid consultant. In fact WEST, if you are reading this best to leave this forum
Your not a pilot and you are biased and do your client no favours in joining in with his lies

[cockney steve]

Quote:I can tell you that there is a highly professional team behind the company.

I can't resist asking: a highly professional team of what?

@ Jonzarno...thanks for a chuckle in this otherwise dire thread on how to commit Business Hara Kiri .
Delusional comes to mind....It's all a 5h1t-fest by his jealous competitors , dontcha know :hmm:

[abgd]

What makes you think that HWEST is not a pilot? He's posted on threads about air-law and a few other aviation topics where I think it would be unusual to have an opinion without having some practical experience.

I wonder who he is? 'Harold West furniture' doesn't seem to find anything useful on Google, and none of the Harold Wests on LinkedIn seem likely. Perhaps you'd like to identify yourself and tell us a little more about your background, so that we can be reassured that Proviation is in safe hands?

[Jonzarno]

Given all the hoo hah here about this company, I thought it might be interesting to find out exactly what scale of business it is. For that reason I have looked at their published accounts.

They appear only to have filed one set of accounts, dated 29 February 2012 which shows a dormant nontrading company with assets of £100. The only director listed is Nick Ross who was appointed on 3/2/2012. That suggests that it was a newly established business at that time.

This doesn't necessarily mean much because companies are only obliged to file accounts annually, there is a nine month grace period in which they can do so and a lot may have happened since these accounts were filed.

That said, this does not look like a business of great substance nor does it have an established trading history and it is quite likely that the credit control departments of their suppliers, who will use these accounts to make credit decisions, may be reluctant to give them credit.

If that is the case, it does suggest a couple of obvious potential reasons why deliveries and refunds may be being delayed.

I don't have a dog in this fight as I'm not a customer and have not had a problem with them myself, but I just thought it worth posting this factual information for others to draw their own conclusions.

[al-vin-thechipmunk]

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.

*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed".


As I said earlier I can't understand this thread. I'm post more out of bewilderment than any past association with the company.

For a quid I might grab some other pilot shops accounts and stick 'em on here, or is it just this store which is of interest? I've had disgruntled clients of other flying shops on the line to me before now ... they're lucky they haven't bothered posted on a forum. As I said, prob because they're longer established companies getting away with it.
Having said that they've been in business for over 5 years. Their legal state changed last yr I believe. If they didn't have Ltd co status I'm sure someone would complain too....and if they were on the stock market you'd be watching the share price.

Might I add a pilot shop in the north is run by a husband and wife. In fact I can think of at least 4. Some small some big. Is this suddenly a bad thing? Businesses established under this structure have strong leadership. Whoever's on here having a go about company structure and personnel and 'dealerships' get a life. You know who you are. I know who you are. Dunno why I don't just out you all. You seem to have no problem using someone's name in here despite it being against PP Ts and Cs. It's an invasion of privacy at the end of day.

[PaulKerry]

Adding to the facts presented, Nick's own claim is that his business is five years old but as far as I understand, a sole-trader does not need to publish his accounts (publicly) - he only needs to submit a tax-return.

He wouldn't need to publish accounts if not a "limited company".

My research indicates that despite the airs and graces he puts on, Nick's "company" is really just him and his wife operating from a one bedroom flat in Dunstable and (by his own admission), outsourcing his "staff".

To put it bluntly, it appears that this "business" doesn't even rate up there with the hoards of drop-shipping muppets on eBay.
At least on eBay, one can rely on the fact that negative feedback is rarely removed and when a customer seeks resolution, he doesn't generally have to spend months spitting into the wind and banging his head against a wall or making public posts exposing the inherent disregard for customer service and contractual obligation.

Paul..

[Jonzarno]

Alvinthe Chipmunk

I'm not a Sciologist, just a pilot based at Cambridge who thought publishing something factual might help put the thread into context.

I have not published the name of any anonymous poster on here: Mr Ross's identity as the sole director of Proviation ltd is a matter of public record.

I have no connection whatever with any aviation business of any kind and the accounts information I posted didn't cost a quid: it is available free from this site:

. Company check for free company accounts. (http://companycheck.co.uk/search) :)

[Fly-by-Wife]

My research indicates that despite the airs and graces he puts on, Nick's "company" is really just him and his wife operating from a one bedroom flat in Dunstable and (by his own admission), outsourcing his "staff".

The other address listed is Unit 2404, High Street North, Dunstable, Bedfordshire LU6 1BE.

Now previously on their website (as it appeared on Google cache of 18 Jul 2013 20:49:26 GMT) that address was Unit 2404, 318 High Street North, Dunstable, Bedfordshire LU6 1BE.

Safestore Self Storage is the business at 318 High Street North, Dunstable, Bedfordshire LU6 1BE, so it is not unreasonable to suppose that 2404 is a storage unit therein.

While I know that many successful small etailers use such self-storage facilities, and thus of itself this fact should be neither here nor there, I find it illuminating that the address should have been altered in the last few weeks.

Similarly, the fact that the house number between "CARTERS YARD" and "Frenchs Avenue" has also been removed in the same period.

It is also peculiar that the Main Operations/Dispatch Office location is Unpublished, given that the storage unit address is provided - albeit with the caveat:
Please note our address details are for our legally registered office only and is not permitted to allow visits due to insurance restrictions. If you wish to visit one of our dispatch offices, please contact us.

One would think that Proviation would be proud to accept visitors to the thriving hub of their enterprise.

FBW

[abgd]

Might I add a pilot shop in the north is run by a husband and wife. In fact I can think of at least 4. Some small some big. Is this suddenly a bad thing?

If the company were working well, I don't think anybody would give two hoots about how it is structured or who it is run by.

[PPRuNe Towers]

This is all very helpful of you but it appears Alvin really doesn't need any help at all with detailed addresses for Proviation.

[Almost]

purchased just under a grands worth of kit..order acknowledgement stated a number of working days.
Didn't get delivered in that promised timeframe.
multiple attempts to get through to them. . ie Left several messages on the voicemail, several emails, never responded.
finally got through on the phone...promised a refund verbally, 'could take 7days'..didnt show in credit card account so chased again by voicemails and emails and finally, got money back.

not a pleasent customer experience, the worst company I have attempted to purchase from online...Their problem is a total lack of prompt communication.

[abgd]

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.Those with too much time on their hands may like to download the 'R' statistics program from the following site

The R Project for Statistical Computing (http://www.r-project.org/)

and the 'stylo' stylometric package:

https://sites.google.com/site/computationalstylistics/

You could then download the contents of the thread, and create a selection of files containing a representative sample of each contributor's posts. You might need to add a few posts from other threads in order to obtain sufficiently large samples of each author's 'style'. You might also need to exclude some authors whose contributions to pprune have been minimal.

Obviously this could be a lot of work, so you could use a script such as the following Matlab or Octave file to do most of it automatically:

function parse_file(fname)

a = fopen(fname, 'r')
b = fopen('scratch', 'w');

while(!feof(a)),
myline = fgetl(a);
charline = 0;
if length(myline)>20,
datel = myline((end-9):end);
if (strcmp(datel(1:4), "2012") && datel(8)==":") || (strcmp(datel(1:4), "2013") && datel(8)==":"),
datel
charl = sscanf(myline(1: (end-19)), "%s")
charl = charl(charl!='_');
charl = charl(charl!='-');
fclose(b);
b = fopen([charl, '_text.txt'], 'a');
charline = 1;
end
end
if charline == 0,
fputs(b, [myline, 14, 11]);
end
end

fclose(a);
fclose(b);

You'd have to do a small amount of quote removal manually so that each author's file only contained his own output.
You would then move these files to a directory named 'corpus' and run stylo, which produces dendrograms such as this:
http://f.hypotheses.org/wp-content/blogs.dir/857/files/2012/10/classificaton-500x379.png
where works are arranged by similarity; those that were written by the same author tend to be grouped together.

Now, there are upwards of 50 contributors to this thread, so you would expect there to be a number of people whose writing styles resemble each other simply by chance. On the other hand, if you were to make a prediction that two or more authors were actually the same person then run the analysis, and later discover that their posts were stylometrically similar, you could feel considerable justification for your viewpoint.

Should a person choose to do this, I would suggest using the default stylo settings as they're likely to provide the most valid outputs by default. You could then vary some of the settings to see whether your conclusions were robust, but it would be very bad practice to vary the settings until you got the answer you expected/wanted.

[cockney steve]

@abgd.......Are you seriously suggesting that a small group of posters have colluded to destroy the credibility of the subject-matter of this thread?

Most contributors would appear to be pilots....all would appear to be interested in Aviation.

So, you seriously expect a group of Aviation enthusiasts/professionals to download (or type) a load of mumbo-jumbo computer-code and execute it, simply because your good self suggests that it is an analytical programme to determine if this thread is genuine , or just a couple of competitors trying to scupper an upstart company.

Are you based in Nigeria or the "Eastern Bloc" IE....are you really a "Botnet" master trying to infect a load more computers?

Personally, I don't know or care. In the big scheme of things, this would appear to be a "one man and a dog" startup E-trader, who hasn't got all his ducks in a row and is attempting to bull or flannel his way out of difficult situations.

If there is no foundation in these allegations of poor service, lack of stock, deception and misrepresentation, Nick should start legal action against the libellous posters.

Sorry, I think this is yet another smoke-cloud to attempt to discredit people who have gone public with their dissatisfaction.

You already summed -up the nub of the matter in a previous post :-
If the company were working well, I don't think anybody would give two hoots about how it is structured or who it is run by.

"Aint that the truth" !

If I have misinterpreted your last post, I apologise and retract.

[abgd]

Yes, you've misinterpreted my last post.

The programs I've linked to are well respected and used extensively in academia. Sure you have to download them, but those of us who use Linux, Firefox etc... do that on a regular basis. They're big projects with lots of references from other sites to authenticate them. The snippet of code I wrote myself is harmless, and anybody capable of running it can verify that for themselves.


Are you seriously suggesting that a small group of posters have colluded to destroy the credibility of the subject-matter of this thread?No, the program wouldn't identify posters who were colluding with each other. What it would identify would be individual persons posting under several different usernames.

Alvin has alleged that there may be foul play in the thread, though he hasn't been specific about who he suspects. The problem with the analysis is that it's a very powerful way of testing suspicions, but not something that you can do as a 'fishing' expedition - because of a statistical issue known as the 'prosecutor's fallacy'. This is why I haven't just posted the results of the analysis here - unless you're clear about what you're looking for, you can't interpret them.

I had my own suspicions, which have been corroborated. I wonder what Alvins are - I suspect they're different from mine, but I'm still curious.

[cockney steve]

@abgd Thank you for your courteous reply. My computer runs Ubuntu, Firefox and Opera. Recently had some instability issues,(hardware, overheating) but basically untouched for about 4 years. I have never needed or wanted to run programmes of the type you posted. If a person / persons is / are using multiple user-names in order to make defamatory posts, I stand by the suggestion that nick should take prompt action to try and salvage some credibility. (I have had a short PM dialogue with Nick)

I've no dog in this fight, just hate to see immoral and unethical business practises, whether by customer or trader. just a shame to keep seeing these apparent problems and the responses.
Anyone in business will get it wrong occasionally, the way it's fallout handled is paramount . I think that is where Nick needs to expend a lot more time and effort, if the negative comments are to be believed.

[Fly-by-Wife]

If a person / persons is / are using multiple user-names in order to make defamatory posts, I stand by the suggestion that nick should take prompt action to try and salvage some credibility.

cockney steve,
abgd's posts, together with PPRuNe Towers' post suggest to me that it might not be Nick that has the problem with people using multiple user names.

FBW

[Blues&twos]

FBW - your interpretation is how I saw it too.
We need Columbo!

[GinnyJ]

I wish I could even get as far as after sales service...I'm still waiting for a product I ordered over a month ago, and cannot get through to them via phone, email or the live chat facility on their website. Doubt I'll see that cash again:sad:

[weather]

I am an accountant now retired living in Spain. Normally we buy through Amazon as they are totally reliable. Occasionally we buy from the UK via other internet suppliers. I wanted a Solar Wireless Weather Station and came across, regrettably, Proviation who supposedly had them in stock. Suppliers to you pilots! (my brother is a pilot) I thought they are probably ok, and £5 cheaper than Amazon!!! Great…..not great…

On 22 July 2012 I placed my order for a Watson Solar Wireless Weather Station. Proviation confirmed the order and, as with all you other punters, they took my money immediately. By 26 July I had heard nothing further so phoned them. No answer! So sent an email asking for a despatch date. By August 2012 still nothing and I was now starting to get worried and it was then I came across this web site!!! That made me even more worried. Eventually I was notified that it had been despatched, but the Tracking number didn’t work. Thankfully it did turn up at the end of August.

The product is guaranteed for 2 years. My weather Station was set up and working well until 16 January 2013 when all the Light readings-UV, Lux and hours of sunshine all became zero. This is not possible up in the mountains of southern Spain. So rang Proviation a number of times and either no answer or message. By 23 Jan. nothing so emailed and phoned many times.Eventually managed to speak to Nick Ross and he agreed to send a replacement for the faulty part. It is now mid-August and still I do not have the replacement part. In this saga there are 43 emails (most unanswered) and scores of attempted phone calls. Nick blamed a chronic shortage of parts and then his supplier. He said he had asked Waters & Stanton to send the part but this never arrived.He then suggested I buy the part from his supplier-www.wsplc.com which turned out to be Waters & Stanton.

By the end of June I was getting nowhere and becoming very frustrated. So I looked at this web site again for inspiration and came across Dave Gittin’s email of 3 October 2012. Eureka- I purchased the Weather Station through Barclaycard. On 15 June I emailed Nick Ross saying send me a replace Weather Station within 7 days or I will claim a refund from Barclaycard. By 27 June still nothing from Nick Ross so I advised him I was putting in a claim to Barclaycard. On 15 July I posted my claim to Barclaycard, with copies of all the emails. On 30 July I phoned Barclaycard to ensure they had received my claim. Not only did they confirm that they had received the claim they advised that a refund had been made the previous day. So for me the cloud had a silver lining, at least I got my money back, but the Weather Station is still not working so I will go and search elsewhere for a solution

I have had a very frustrating year with Proviation. They are absolutely the worst internet supplier I have ever come across and will certainly never use them again. [Unsubstantiated accusation removed] I think the days of Proviation are numbered.

[cockney steve]

Personally, I don't know or care. In the big scheme of things, this would appear to be a "one man and a dog" startup E-trader, who hasn't got all his ducks in a row and is attempting to bull or flannel his way out of difficult situations.

If there is no foundation in these allegations of poor service, lack of stock, deception and misrepresentation, Nick should start legal action against the libellous posters

It would appear that he hasn't and is unlikely to.

I stand by the suggestion that nick should take prompt action to try and salvage some credibility.

IT would appear that he hasn't and he hasn't

The Arthur Daley's and doorstep double-glazing salesmen of this world, sucker their punters for just so long.....some learn about the ethics and integrity needed to establish a long -term business the shysters and spivs get found out and have to find a new marketplace with new mugs.

"just saying":rolleyes:

@abgd @FBW Thank you both, I'm a bit slow on the uptake, sometimes.

Ever tried taking a horse to water?....stupid bugger still won't drink, sometimes.

anyone else notice the Proviation banner -ad has gone from the bottom of the pages?

[Jonzarno]

On 15 July I posted my claim to Barclaycard, with copies of all the emails. On 30 July I phoned Barclaycard to ensure they had received my claim. Not only did they confirm that they had received the claim they advised that a refund had been made the previous day.

If I was a business relying on online sales, this would worry me quite seriously.

Obviously BC will just deduct the amount involved, and probably a charge as well (?), from the company's revenue from them but, beyond that, I don't know how many times this has to happen before the credit card companies cancel a vendor's account.

I would imagine it isn't that often but, if it happens, it would certainly be bad news.

[RollsR1]

As I said I would, here is my final post regarding my case.
I now have my refund and not before time.
So, facts and data for reference:

Order placed on 24th May 2013 and money taken.
Total of 11 emails and 1 (answered) phone call to Proviation chasing product.
Total of 2 emails to safe buy
Total days off work seeking legal advice =1
Refund requested on 9th, 17th & 18th July, 10th (twice), 11th & 12th August.
Refund finally made on 12th August and in my account on 13th August.

You wouldn't think it reading this but I consider myself very lucky and as a result far more savvy and educated.
This will never happen to me again if I can help it.

I will leave the doubters to make their own minds up, but ultimately, you can't ague with facts and data.

Hope someone finds this useful.
Keep trying if you are still in the looney loop.
Signing off.

[Blues&twos]

Noticed that a comment has been added to Proviation's home page saying that Trustpilot isn't co-operating in getting "fictitious" poor reviews deleted....

[PaulKerry]

... but what about the REAL poor reviews???

Even if Nick told me that water was wet, I'd have to check for myself.

Paul..

[CaptainChaos981]

Nick is wrong to say his reviews are false
Trustpilot is obsessed with removing false reviews and so if you look at nicks reviews they are all from confirmed purchases which means they are real and they are poor as backed up by this forum

More Mr Ross waffle one thinks?

[DOUGALHOUND]

I ordered a jacket from Proviation and had a prompt reply saying they had a few problems and could not complete my order straight away......fair enough.

However I then started to chase it....boy do they have problems indeed, unanswered telephone calls / messages / emails/ on line etc. This has gone on for several weeks now and as of today still no satisfactory answer, though today I did at least have some contact with them........I await the answer and of course delivery of my order.
The motto of this story is treat them with caution, be very specific when asking when your order will be delivered, is it stock, if not how long etc....a very frustrating company to deal with.

I will comment in full when my order is delivered or my monies refunded.

[Derek Emson]

A month ago I ordered a GoPro battery from Proviation and as yet there is no sign of it. All they have said is that they are waiting on the suppliers of this item and they would have it soon - 2 weeks ago.
My advice is to check that they actually can supply something in a reasonable time.

[mrangryofwarlingham]

does it strike anyone as curious why there are probationer pproooooooners, who have created accounts for the primary purpose of contributing to this thread?
in a non positive way?

fwiw, I have not used Proviation - so cannot comment.

[Blues&twos]

It is possible that these new PPRuNers are posting maliciously (i.e. are actually all the same person or are mischief makers).

On the other hand, it is possible that they are genuinely disgruntled customers who have come across this thread whilst trawling the internet having typed in "Proviation", and are sharing tbeir experience as a warning to others.

[abgd]

It's true, but there are also many disgruntled customers who have been around for a reasonably long time. Myself, for example.

[PaulKerry]

created accounts for the primary purpose of contributing to this thread in a non positive way?

Perhaps they've discovered that negative reviews on Proviation's TrustPilot page have a tendency to vanish mysteriously and hope that the flag-fairy doesn't have such an easy job here.

My review was eventually reinstated after I proved to TP that I was a genuine customer and as it is still there (under the same name as the one I'm using here), other readers can be assured that I'm not simply someone else's sock-account.

Assuming that at least some of these experiences are genuine (and they all report the same symptoms both here and on TP, it should be noted), I think it's rather telling that people are signing up to this forum for the purpose of contributing to this thread.


it is possible that they are genuinely disgruntled customers who have come across this thread whilst trawling the internet having typed in "Proviation"

I can attest to that. I found this thread only after being deceived into placing an order.
I wish that I'd seen this thread before giving my hard-earned money to such an untrustworthy and undeserving middle-man.

Paul..

[mrangryofwarlingham]

I am generally a cynical person.
I am in no doubt that some people feel they have received poor service from Proaviation.
I wouldn't be surprised if one person is behind multiple posts on this thread.
So for me, this thread has lost its credibility.

[PaulKerry]

I wouldn't be surprised if one person is behind multiple posts on this thread.
So for me, this thread has lost its credibility.

On what evidence do you base your conclusion? Or is it simply based on supposition? If that's the case, then it would be more appropriate to say that it is you who has just lost credibility.

Let me demonstrate:
I would not be surprised if you were simply a shill for Proviation. So, for me, your posts have lost all credibility.

Do you see how that works? I cannot simply base a conclusion on my own speculation. To do so would be fallacious.

Paul..

[mrangryofwarlingham]

Bravo Paul Kerry - great logic.
Whilst I make comments about the thread - so you have a go at me?

I am less to do with Proviation than you - never heard of them until this thread.

You are behaving like a troll. So I questioned the thread - and you suggest I have lost credibility?

If you no longer wish to see my posts as I lack credibility, then block me out.
I don't know you - and have no basis on which you suggest you have no credibility (as you don't with me).

In the meantime, for those who are trolls to this thread - it is meaningless. IMHO hijacked by some who have posted under multiple personnae.

[PaulKerry]

I think you have misunderstood.
I was pointing out that to base a conclusion on speculation is fallacious. My post wasn't an attack on you but a deliberate demonstration of poor logic.
If I had some evidence that you were a shill, then to base a conclusion on that evidence may have some merit. To declare that you have no credibility simply because of my own speculation is foolish.

However, as it seems that you have realised that the comment I made involved faulty logic, my point has been made. Do you now see that your own logic was just as faulty (as it was an example of the same irrationality)?
That is my reason for asking you on what evidence you based your conclusion.
... and your post could have been seen as a personal attack on me.
You are suggesting that one person is making all (or many of) the negative comments. As I have made negative comments in this thread, your comment appears to be pointing the finger squarely at me.

So, let's get back to the original point of my comment - Do you have any evidence to suggest that these posts are being made by the same person or are you simply guessing?

If you think this thread has lost credibility, perhaps you should take your own advice and stop reading it.

Paul..

[mrangryofwarlingham]

So my last comment on this (now your) thread is this:

If you believe you are out of pocket from this firm, then sue them
get a court order
enforce the judgment.

If this is a firm that gives poor service and goes out of business - then fine.
I have no axe to grind in this.

Clearly you have.

[PaulKerry]

I notice that you have avoided answering my question.


If this is a firm that gives poor service and goes out of business - then fine.


If I had known about the standard of service prior to ordering, I would not have placed an order. This thread would have been invaluable at the time.

Perhaps someone else can avoid making the same mistakes as those of us who trusted the website which claims that such-and-such is in stock when the reality of the matter is far different. Perhaps it will prevent other consumers from the frustration of being ignored after having their money taken for a product which is not going to be provided within a reasonable period of time.


I have no axe to grind in this.

Yet, here you are grinding an axe and casting aspersions without presenting so much as a shred of evidence to back up your position.

That leaves me wondering why someone might do such a thing.
I could hazard a guess, of course.

Paul..

[Blues&twos]

More telling for me is that there are a number of different negative reviews on TrustPilot. Against most of these negative reviews Nick has posted excuses and "we regret" comments.

If these were fictitious reviews, excuses from Proviation would not have been posted, would they? They would simply say something like "This is a fictitious complaint. We have no record of this transaction". The same has happened on this thread where different individuals have posted detailed descriptions of their experiences, which, are all quite similar. There has usually been a response claiming it's someone else's fault.

I don't think this thread, therefore, has lost credibility.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with warning your fellow enthusiasts to avoid doing business with someone who has given bad service.

[PaulKerry]

...Nick has posted excuses and "we regret" comments.

It's the "for the benefit of readers" comments that make me laugh.
To me that reads, "Please don't think badly of us because we lose out when people see how dreadfully we've treated our customers". Those comments aren't for the benefit of readers, they are for the benefit of his pocket.

They would simply say something like "This is a fictitious complaint. We have no record of this transaction".
You'll be giving him ideas if you're not careful...!
I quite expect to see that posted after some of his worst reviews in the near future... The other excuses are wearing a bit thin, now... :E

Paul..

[JDA2012]

As I already posted, my only experience with Proviation was a positive one, however regarding the number of "one post wonders", I would like to point out that the top five results for "Proviation" on Google, without adding any additional words, are currently:

1) Proviation website
2) This thread
3) Proviation Twitter
4) Proviation Facebook
5) TrustPilot

If you add "Problems" this thread becomes the top result, followed by TrustPilot, then Twitter, TrustPilot (Polish), ResellerRatings, and THEN the Proviation website.

It does seem possible that this thread might attract those with problems, or those who are just curious; as such, it is also possible means that those with problems may be over-represented here as they may find this thread before more official communication channels.

Draw your own conclusions, but in any case, it is unfortunate for Proviation that this site is so high up in the results as it cannot be desirable having such bad publicity so publically associated with your company name. I do hope that such problems as may exist are sorted out since I was perfectly satisfied with my own experience...

[Blues&twos]

Each customer with a problem is a customer with a problem! They can't be over represented in a thread specifically about customers with a problem.

It is also apparent that all of the posters of negative comments have put a good deal of effort into using official channels of communication - with little or no success. That itself is one of the main causes of complaint.

[abgd]

I've posted a little in the past, and perhaps without sufficient explanation, about my experiments with stylistic analysis, which I continue to find endlessly amusing.

For discussions of what stylometry is, see the Wikipedia article:

Stylometry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylometry)

or perhaps:

The Professor Who Declared, It's J.K. Rowling - Technology - The Chronicle of Higher Education (http://chronicle.com/article/The-Professor-Who-Declared/140595/)

Whilst it's always possible that there are a few people who are posting under false pretences (e.g. commercial competitors), one thing that comes out clearly is that a lot of different individuals have contributed to the thread. If there is any such fraud, it's either not widespread (i.e. superfluous) or it is rather sophisticated.

Most contributors seem to echo my own personal experience of the company, which is why I tend to believe that the vast majority of posts here are genuine.

[echo-romeo]

Hi,

Flightbag ordered 15th July 2013 - a couple of e-mails followed advising a delay of a few days - then total silence - e-mails and phone calls ignored - no-one answers the phone no one answers e-mails.

Started a dispute procedure via Paypal last week.

Last week Proviation finally responded to one of my e-mails (Or perhaps the Paypal dispute ?) requesting a refund and asked if they could complete the order if they got the goods to me by the end of the week which was 23rd August 2013 - nothing received and no more e-mails or phone calls.

Finally took out a dispute via Paypal and got my money back today 26th August 2013.

Not an happy experience. I wouldn't recommend using this company at all really - but if you do, make sure it's by Credit Card or Paypal - but why bother - just go to a company with a good record - it would be much easier.

gfzLyPqko8w

[CaptainChaos981]

I found this thread after typing in proviation problems after HAVING a problem. I do this with nearly every large purchase now prior to purchasing.

At the end of the day the review above summaries many of this threads Prune user issues. Placed order, took money, no goods, cannot get money back.

OH and if you type into Google "Proviation reviews", top results are

Resellerratings.com ratings = LOW,
Scambook,
Scam advisor

Draw your own conclusions. I have

[bushwakker]

i have recently had a bad experience with these people, they do not answer the phone or emails. the only way to contact them is via their text box on their site, but even then all they tried to do is stall for extra time and could not tell me even after 2 weeks when my order would be delivered. a few more days seems to be all they can say. stay well away is my advice.

[First_Principal]

...one thing that comes out clearly is that a lot of different individuals have contributed to the thread. If there is any such fraud, it's either not widespread (i.e. superfluous) or it is rather sophisticated.@abgd, thanks for the pointers to Stylometry, most interesting.

I should think that some correlation with IP numbers of Poster's, and other such detail, would be valuable in terms of providing additional authority to your thesis. While I imagine this information is available to site admins it may not be of sufficient importance to employ here, although I can think of other threads and/or erstwhile users of the site that might bear a closer look...

FP.

[echo-romeo]

Hi,

Strange that there should be doubt or conspiracy concerning Proviation - My message above is very genuine and was intended to prevent others having a bad experience. If anyone has any doubts about these threads then buy something from Proviation, e-mail them, phone their landline - 01582 204986 - just see what happens and then judge for yourself - but do use a credit card or Paypal !!

BTW A Proviation competitor despatched a Flight Bag to me within a couple of hours of receiving my order and were excellent on communication.
Quite a simple and pleasant business practice really !

Cheers

[echo-romeo]

Hi,

One final warning for any Paypal transaction that goes wrong......... There is a 45 day limit to make your claim - so don't be strung along by suppliers saying that your goods will be with you shortly if you would be prepared to wait a little bit longer - set a target date for your goods arriving and when you will claim your money back if they don't - don't take it to the 45 day limit to prevent arguments.

Cheers
Paul

[GAAV8R]

I just picked up the tail end of this thread, but I bought my PPL manuals (some time ago) from Proviation and they arrived quickly - no hassles. I bought some charts off them - no probs.

But that was some time ago and, while I haven't read the whole thread, if they are not supplying on time and going very silent, it could be the sign of financial instability???

[PaulKerry]

When something you order from them arrives quickly, it is probably down to the genuine retailer. When something does not arrive on time, it is most likely because Proviation are not aware that the genuine retailer does not have the stock or... cannot be bothered to update their webpage to reflect the fact that the genuine retailer doesn't have the stock (they get your money anyway, right? And if they hang on and deflect you for long enough, the retailer might obtain the stock and ship it).

What am I talking about when I say "genuine" retailer? Proviation appear to be the kind of drop-shipping merchant you might find on eBay only not as conscientious. On eBay one cannot simply flag poor feedback and make it vanish so they're motivated to provide good service from the outset.

My advice would be to cut out the middle man - he's taking your money for doing basically nothing - go directly to the genuine retailer. It's a far more reliable way of doing business and nowhere near as much hassle when things go wrong (and they so frequently do with Proviation - Current TrustPilot ratings: 5th out of 5 in the category Aviation and 32nd out of 43 in the category Hobby ).

Paul..

[ROAR Performance]

I run three small companies and have suppliers in 14 countries. Proviation is the worst company I have ever had the misfortune to work with. I ordered a Go Pro on 22th June, which after two weeks didn't arrive (despite showing in stock). I cancelled the order in early July and have been trying desperately since to get my refund. I have sent over 10 emails and called close to 50 times. Only twice actually managing to speak to anyone. THIS IS THE WORST COMPANY I HAVE EVER DEALT WITH! DO NOT USE THEM!

[Mojo_69]

(despite showing in stock)

Exactly. I ordered a £300 transceiver from Proviation a month ago, which showed as "Product Available from Stock ✓". Only after they'd taken my money did I found out over the next days that they did not have it in stock, and neither did their suppliers. I cancelled my order, and still haven't received my refund, one calendar month later. I subsequently ordered the radio from a real online retailer (that actually did have it in stock), and of course received it within days.

When I complained, Proviation explained their practice in an email to me:
"The in-stock position reflects the fact that we have drop-ship arrangements in place with suppliers if we ever sell out in our own stockroom. On this occasion our main supplier is also out of stock, the delay stemming at Yaesu UK."

I have no problem at all with Proviation acting as a middleman - a 'drop-ship' supplier, as it affords me a greater choice of products, as Proviation themselves point out.

However, claiming "Product Available from Stock ✓" for individual products is purposely misleading - they know full well that they're not in stock, nor do they seem to have any system for checking if even the real suppliers have it in stock (which they did not). The claim is completely disconnected from any stock levels, and Proviation will not correct their advertising, even when they know it to be untrue (the webpage still makes the same claim now). That is purposely misleading, and as far as I'm concerned amounts to scamming me out of my money, which I now seem unable to get back (nor can I get through to them by telephone).

I gave Proviation the chance to change their webpage to reflect that they don't have the product in stock. However, they seem to believe that their practice is acceptable, so (as I told them I would) I have now reported them to the Advertising Standards Authority, to let them decide.

It's a pity; they seem like a sincere company, but they seem unaware that making false claims as a standard business practice is always going to end badly for them. I imagine many of the posters in this thread would be perfectly content if they had chosen to go into their purchases knowing that they would have to wait 'x' months before delivery - they would then have had the choice to proceed with the transaction or go elsewhere (and would hardly be complaining when the lead time was as expected). Instead, however, Proviation seem determined to run their reputation (further) into the ground by pretending that they can supply items that are actually unavailable.

[PaulKerry]

perfectly content if they had chosen to go into their purchases knowing that they would have to wait 'x' months before delivery - they would then have had the choice to proceed with the transaction or go elsewhere
Right. That's called informed choice.
To claim that I have something for sale when I do not and to take your money for a product you expect to be dispatched within a day or two when there is absolutely no chance of that happening and to do so knowingly is (in my book) nothing short of deception. I have spent many hours going over this with Nick and as you reported of your own conversations, he isn't interested in changing his approach, preferring instead to bleat about how damaging poor reviews are to his reputation - It seems that he cannot understand that he is rightly earning these poor reviews and that his treatment of customers is beneath contempt.

Paul..

[Jonzarno]

I gave Proviation the chance to change their webpage to reflect that they don't have the product in stock. However, they seem to believe that their practice is acceptable, so (as I told them I would) I have now reported them to the Advertising Standards Authority, to let them decide.

If your problem is as you describe, you should also report them to the Trading Standards authority in their (not your) area.

As I understand it, the Advertising Standards Authority can only make them stop misleading advertising, the Trading Standards Authority have a very much wider remit.

[cockney steve]

Private prosecution, county court, small claims procedure. Quick, easy, cheap...as soon as your plaint is lodged, the fee is payable by the loser.

IIRC, fees on a sliding scale from under £30. It concentrates the minds of those who have a cavalier attitude to integrity ,honesty and respect for their fellow man.

I have heard a con-artist openly boast that if his victim is that stupid and gullible, they didn't deserve to havethe asset in the first place.

not a nice attitude.
sorry to see this thread rumbling on. obviously Nick isn't listening.

[CaptainChaos981]

"I just picked up the tail end of this thread, but I bought my PPL manuals (some time ago) from Proviation and they arrived quickly - no hassles. I bought some charts off them - no probs."

Of course not, because the genuine retailer had them in stock. So he makes money by simply relaying an order from you to a genuine shop and then takes the profit.
but he does not put that profit back into service

Proviation is a similar business model to how amazon or ebuyer approached the internet but without the safe guards. List every single product on a suppliers price list but in PV's case, don't bother to set up a stock feed or discontinuation system.

So after a very short time you end up with products not available but your website says they are, and products that have been removed but showing as still current.

This might work for generic products but aviation is specialised. I for one am not putting my trust into a company like this where I might get non current items or place an order for something that is no longer available then have to wait ages for my money back.

As the previous member said, there is enough good online stores that have done it and continue to do it right. Use them. They are no more expensive.

A list of who is good can be found on Trustpilot.co.uk
search for aviation or click this
Aviation (http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/categories/aviation)

[Jonzarno]

A list of who is good can be found on Trustpilot.co.uk
search for aviation or click this
Aviation

Hmmm. Clicking that link brings up Proviation in fifth place with four stars.

So that's ok then...... :p

[PaulKerry]

Clicking that link brings up Proviation in fifth place with four stars.
Fifth out of five.
That's the bottom of the list. In the category "hobby", he's right near the bottom, too.
This isn't just a transient blip, either. This reflects his on-going attitude toward customer-service. For a company that's five years old, this is a very poor state of affairs.

My clients leave feedback, too. I don't get anywhere near the level of bad feedback simply because I don't over-promise and under-deliver. My clients are generally pleasantly surprised by the lengths I go to to provide the service for which they are paying and I never ignore contact from a client. EVER !!.
Just for the sake of clarity, I don't supply avionics or aviation-related gear so I'm not a competitor.

Paul..

[Jari_K]

It seems that I have similar experience as many other.

I placed my order for a Dual XGPS150E on the 28th of March. After some days I got a mail saying that the part was out of stock, but would come in some few days.
I waited some week, nothing happened. Mailed them and asked what happened with my part, they excused them self with still not having parts on stock.
After several weeks of waiting I decided to cancel the order, this was an option in the mail answers back from Proviation. Nothing happened though, I didn't get any money back or explanation from them. Then they suddenly told me that the part was sent, but probably got lost in transfer and that they would send a new one to me. I still haven't received anything.
Now after almost 6 months they do not answer my mail anymore, I do not get any answer when trying to call them, no response in the Chat window. NOTHING!!

I probably have to accept that my 100£ went to Proviation as a donation (since I don't get them back or my part).

I'll NEVER EVER buy anything from this company again, that's for sure!!

[PaulKerry]

As predicted Jari, your TP review has now been removed and "coincidentally" it was flagged at the same time that Proviation responded to another review - yet Nick claims that he isn't flagging reviews. I don't believe his claim. The evidence is overwhelming.

(For anyone who is interested, I have a screenshot, showing that Proviation's reply and the flagging of the one-star reviews all happened "a few seconds ago". Once might be a coincidence. Twice might be a coincidence. The rate at which this is happening is rather hard to pass off as a coincidence).

Paul..

[CaptainChaos981]

You are so right Paul
this company is appalling. His trustpilot page looks is pathetic, Why do trustpilot allow this?

You , me everyone should email them and let them know what is going on

[PaulKerry]

It seems that someone is also flagging some of his positive reviews.
Perhaps someone who had his own review removed and has decided to take revenge??? That's funny!
When I spoke to Nick in eMail, he was bad-mouthing TP and calling them all manner of dishonest crooks and now he's "working with TP" according to another response he posted to another user... I wonder if he means that in the way in which he's "working closely" with Sennheiser... ;)

Paul..

[Rimvydas Vastakas]

Dear Proviation :),

Because there is no other possibility to reach you, (no one picks up the phone, no one replays to e-mail messages) I use this forum.

My Receip Nr.1991-3305-3698-2705. On May 26 I ordered GNS 1000 GPS Receiver for IPad and paid for it at the same day. Till today, September 9, I did not receive my ordered Item and have no information about delivery terms. According to delivery terms of your company I had to receive GPS Receiver in 7 days after payment was made. I wrote e-mails, have got the promise from Proviation contact person to deliver ordered item till July 10, but then she did not replay any more to my e-mail messages.
Could you inform me about delivery status, when I will receive my order.
If I will not receive any information and my ordered GNS 1000 GPS Receiver will not be sent to my address in next ten days, I am going to send a letter to Police in UK, Police in Lithuania and inform about your company's unfair activities ICPEN (International Consumer Protection and Enforcement Network) .

With best regards

Rimvydas Vastakas

[Blues&twos]

Has anyone in the UK got Trading Standards involved yet?

[Jonzarno]

Rimvydas Vastakas


As I have said in earlier posts, I do not recall dealing with this company myself and have no relationship with it.

As you are not based in the UK, I hope the following is helpful.

I am afraid that the UK police are unlikely to be interested in pursuing this unless you can provide proof of intent to defraud, not just incompetence.

The process of doing that is complex and very time consuming. Don't ask me how I know! :sad:

If you want to pursue this, or any other, company for a trading dispute of this type, your best bet is Trading Standards in the company's local area.

I believe that the appropriate office for Proviation is Luton:

Luton Borough Council Trading Standards Service

Clemitson House
14 Upper George Street
Luton
LU1 2RP
Tel: 01582 54 72 62
Minicom: 08451 28 13 84
Email: [email protected]

You will need to provide full details of what has happened together with supporting documentation such as your order, their acknowledgement, proof that you have paid and any subsequent correspondence.

I hope this helps.

[Rimvydas Vastakas]

Thank You very much for Your advice. Best regards. Rimvydas

[DHC]

Hi,

My items has been ordered since 3 months now, half arrive after 2 months, and waiting for the rest.
I send a complain to [email protected]
And my lawyer will take care of this company either if it takes 3 years, I don't care as they don't care of customers 's order.

You can also compalin to your Bank; I 'll compalin to American Express, they like this kind of company especially as we can pay with an AMEX and never receive items, they 'll jump on them.

[dom175b]

Hello All,

Have issues from Proviation! I ordered some books in readiness for a trip I am taking on Monday to Asia. Ordered from Proviation on the 26th Aug and still havent received anything on the 12th September. There seems to be a theme running here. Are they having financial issues? The books ordered are standard items... Called four times and emailed 4 times and still no response! Feel very let down as I have ordered beforehand and spent good money with them in the past. Beware!

[CaptainChaos981]

Immediately inform your card company. This business, if you go by this thread, trustpilot, scambook scamadvisor has many issues

[Dave Gittins]

I repeat the advice I gave on this thread almost 12 months ago.

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/476735-proviation-customer-care-problems.html#post7446746

:ugh:

[rgsaero]

I am fascinated to note that Proviation is actually advertising on PPRuNe!! The ad is on the bottom of the page on many forums! Brave or what?

[Peter Waterman]

I cannot understand how companies like this exist. I have never seen an 11 page thread of complaints in all my long life.

I noticed some are mentioning Trustpilot.? God their page looks bad.

These reviews make me shiver

Ben Harding (http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/users/5037518)
Ashtead, GB
<li title="1 Review">1 Review
48 minutes ago Robbed my 14 year old son, appalling, 9 months and still nothing! (http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/proviationshop.co.uk/5239f63f00006400025a5498)

My son(14) ordered a go pro hero 3 silver(including a 3 year warranty) and a go pro chest mount £312.94, taking more than a year to save up. He trusted them as there website states " our mission... To provide our customers with the best online shopping experience" well ours couldn't be much worse.
We purchased on the 10TH JANUARY 2013,
The products where supposed to arrive with in 2-3 days, a week late it did, with a suction cup( we did not order) but missing the 3 year warranty and chest harness.
We sent the suction cup back with a promise of credited delivery.
We did not get anything back, after a lot of emails they said would give us curved adhesive mounts free of charge.
We have not heard anything from them since June, we've tried email and phone calls, we have resorted to going through the bank to get our money back.
It is now 18 SEPTEMBER 2013 nothing has happened.


TOOK MY MONEY AND LEFT ME WITH NOTHING = @THEFT (http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/proviationshop.co.uk/52395a0e00006400025a31d9)
Hi
20th of Aug: I ordered a TrackIr 5
20th of Aug: Proviation Shop executes transaction of 155.9 £
26th of Aug: No delivery so I mail Proviationshop for an update.
26th of Aug: Proviation Autoreply: Thanks for your email. We realise it is important....
27th of Aug:Proviationshop replys: We are presently waiting for the distributor to re-stock....
30th of Aug: I mail Proviationshop where I state the order will be cancelled if they have not shipped the items end of business 4th of Sept.
30th of Sept: AutoReply from Proviationshop: Thanks for your email. We realise it is important ....

SINCE THEN SILENCE, NO REFUND and NO DELIVERY


Martin
<li title="1 Review">1 Review
12 hours ago Untrustworthy - took my money but failed to deliver the product and have failed to refund my money. (http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/proviationshop.co.uk/523956c600006400025a2bcd)

I ordered a headset in early July. This was never sent and I have been trying for about 7 weeks to get my money returned.
This company is Untrustworthy.



most of the other reviews are missing text or something ??

[AV83R]

I ordered from them in August and didn't receive my goods until after a month from payment.

They will happily take your money, yet when it comes to giving you what you've paid for, they're absolute idiots!

Emails are never answered, callbacks are never completed, phones are never picked up. If you do get through, all you get is a shed load of excuses as to why they're such an incompetant (spelling) company.

Something to fill you all with a little more confidence, the ''managing director'' Nick Ross, is just as useless as his company. I sent countless emails, received replies to a select few, and was offered NO compensation for their idiocy.

I think PPRuNe should seriously reconsider supporting them on the forum. A lot of new pilots/students will see them as a sponsor and assume in that the nature of the forum will mean they're a reputable company.

Well done Proviation!!!!!!!!! :D

ETA:

If you also look at the trust pilot reviews, a lot of them have been ''reported by a user'', leaving only reviews that are good, or ones that they have an answer for. Not that I'm at all suggesting foul play, but for the amount of reported reviews it seems a bit fishy :=

[PaulKerry]

Twice, I was asked to remove my review - the second time being offered a "goodwill gesture".
The first time, I told him I'd amend it if and when he got his act together and supplied the the products for which I had paid.
He replied something along the lines of "Frankly, I'd like you to remove it altogether. Poor reviews really damage our company. I'll send you a good will gesture for all the trouble you've been through."
My reply was, "Frankly, not a chance. You earned that review fair and square."
Within a few minutes of my reply being sent, my review vanished. Needless to say, I never received my "goodwill gesture". :suspect:

I've been keeping a really close eye on the reviews and the times at which they disappear for some time now along with the times that updates happen on his website, new glowing reviews arrive and responses are posted - around six months or so.

I am suggesting foul play. The things I've watched happen would be very, very hard to excuse as coincidence.

To be fair, originally only the poor reviews disappeared. Now, even the good ones do, too. I think someone else may have had their review flagged down and has decided to take revenge.

He plays the victim in all this and has even told other customers that the majority of these poor reviews are fake (as if someone has it in for him) but having been through the mill will this guy, I'd say he earns everything he gets (and more).

Although, I have to give credit where credit is due - A few days ago, for the first time ever, I saw him actually accept the blame for a foul-up and put his hands up to it being his fault rather than blaming someone or something else.
Maybe, just maybe, he's actually learning. (I doubt it though).

Now, if only he could learn to provide the products that he advertises as "in stock" (and to remove products from his site or mark them as "out of stock" when the stock runs out for the genuine retailer to whom he passes on the orders) and to respond to contact when customers start chasing him instead of waiting until they make public posts exposing his failings.

Paul..

[cabbagecrate]

I ordered an item of clothing from Proviation in February this year. As I have not received anything other than excuses from them to date, I have cancelled the order. Refund of my seventy quid? I should be so lucky! Rogue traders indeed.

[Lone_Ranger]

One thing this thread has taught me (I already know proviation are pants) is that sites like trustpilot are half way to useless.
Looks to me as if, in an attempt to filter out reviews by trouble makers they got too over protective of business and accept their version of any dispute, above that of the consumer.
It can't just be the proviation lot that are pro-actively manipulating and it does seem that the end result of the trustpilot review system is unrepresentative of reality, making businesses look better than they are.

[abgd]

xkcd: TornadoGuard (http://xkcd.com/937/)

[First_Principal]

xkcd: TornadoGuard (http://xkcd.com/937/)

That made me smile :D (for the intended or otherwise subtlety I might add).

Now I've never used Trustpilot (TP) and didn't know of it's existence until reading this thread but I was intrigued to read on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trustpilot):

"Trustpilot differs from other customer review websites in that it accepts fees directly from some of the companies being reviewed....Fee paying companies have additional control over their reviews."

I'm not sure that I'd be happy about the integrity of anything I read on a site that potentially allows skewing of data as this could. Certainly it makes its value as a truly unbiased consumer review site somewhat limited IMO.

While I recognise the importance of ensuring that any reports made are accurate, and so some element of editorial control may be necessary, what I read here on PPuNe suggests that TP may be further skewing data through wholesale deletions of reports - possibly so far as to make it not fit for purpose (and thus untrustworthy).

I'm not sure how TP do their stats, probably it's a fairly simple process, but I'd suggest that there are elements of 'proper' analysis that can reduce the effects of rogue reports without potentially biased human intervention.... it would be interesting to know if there are any other review sites around that are perhaps less interventionist and also don't allow company payments/control in this way?

Disclaimer: I have still never used TP - they wanted me to accept cookies that I wouldn't allow - so all my information comes from 3rd parties. TP may have legitimate and reasonable reason to delete data, however IMO the reasons and methodology of this should be open for public scrutiny so that the integrity of what one reads is very clear.

FP.

[abgd]

Well, stranger things have happened than rival companies seeking to discredit an newcomer. There's even a name for it: astroturfing. Far better to go to the forums in my view, where you can be more certain of whether people (for or against) are genuine by looking at their past posts; how long they've been a member of the site etc...

Lots but not all of us have been around for a relatively long while.

[PaulKerry]

"Trustpilot differs from other customer review websites in that it accepts fees directly from some of the companies being reviewed....Fee paying companies have additional control over their reviews."

Assuming that by "control", what is meant is the ability to manipulate and not just add extra fancy graphics, etc. then I'm speechless.
As it is, the ability for ANYONE to flag a review on a site like that is potentially counterproductive, however (take note Ed Barrett, as I see that your own review there was pulled) if it's a matter of "Personal details" then they remove the details such as names of company staff, references to other websites etc. and reinstate the review after a few days (or weeks depending upon how much oil their wheels require). If it's "on suspicion of being false" or "other", the customer is likely to get an email from TP asking them to prove that they were a genuine customer. When mine was pulled, after some time, I got one of those requests so I sent them my emails from Bloviation and it soon reappeared. Not until AFTER it had slid off the first page though.
If you post on TP, I'd recommend keeping all correspondence from your supplier because you may need to back up your review.

Paul..

[Mojo_69]

Thanks guys for your advice. ASA are still investigating them (Case Ref: A13-242088). I am unfortunately very busy at the moment and therefore haven't had time to inform Trading Standards.

I did however start looking into small claims procedures (I've always heard good things about the way it's set up), and sent a quick, polite email as a precursor to court proceedings (which normally goes down well in court):

Order O-xxxxx was cancelled by Proviation one month ago. Refund still not received. Please advise as I must start legal action this week (week commencing 9.9.13) if refund is not received.

They processed my refund the following day. They included a screenshot of their refund authorization code, and said:

Your refund was processed automatically through the shop terminal around the 8th August. Sometimes they don't go through properly as we have changed credit card merchants and so they sometimes have to be manually entered. I have done this now for you and here is a copy of the transaction details on. [sic]
This is something that we are working on with our card merchant and we apologise that you have been affected by this.

Just thought I should let you know, as I had been losing hope (not being able to get through on the phone, reading this thread & seeing all of the others waiting for refunds etc). It is either a huge coincidence, or Proviation aren't fond of legal action.

[Blues&twos]

Bloody hell. I wonder if there's anything or anyone they haven't blamed yet? :mad:

[CaptainChaos981]

I have a friend who use the same merchant as these guys, ie sage world pay or whatever its called.

Refunds are NOT done manually. They are the same as when they take your money, which in Proviations case is instant. refunds take no less time. they are simply hanging on to your money until you really kick up a fuss

[rgsaero]

I'm very surprised that no-one's sent this complete "dossier" to the BBC consumer affairs unit. The Watchdog team has a very good track record in putting the fear of death, liquidation, approbrium etc into companies large and small as the threat to blitz the company name to (potentially) about 20 million viewers very often has an instant effect.

I haven't been "burned" here but one of those who has should do this and soon.......

[dougalk9]

Appalling customer service, never answer the telephone, often ignore emails, no response to requests for up to date delivery dates. Ordered 1/8/13 and no sign of goods, will not hold my breath to get my money back :mad:
Beware of ordering on line...check by telephone first...if you can get anyone to answer it...they often have problems with many of their 'systems' !!!!!!!

[airman1903]

Are they in self denial over their obvious customer problems or are they planning to go out of business? Both my order and my money seems to have disappeared into the ether. No communication except a cynical auto reply to emails and of course no goods. They must make a fortune on money held from non deliveries. I've got a bit of time just now so will try to refer them to Trading Standards and PayPal. No this is not a fake posting - Order No O-23033 and all items stated as in stock both when ordered and now!

[CaptainChaos981]

"Celebrating 5 years" it says

Companies house says not
Company Registration No.: 07516808
Incorporation Date: 3 Feb 2011 - 2 Years old

Last accounts filed year ending 29 Feb 12

now nearly 2014, I thought you had to post accounts if you were still trading?

PS: more from Trustpilot

Terrible customer services (http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/proviationshop.co.uk/5252e7ea00006400025d9dfa)

I ordered item on the 16th Sept 13.
Waited & Waited nothing arrived.
Emailed, you guessed it, no replies
Phoned, always busy.
Phoned the 26th Sept, actually got through to a human being who informed me that the supplier normally would send the item direct to myself but had sent it to Proviation by mistake. I was then informed the said item would be dispatched on the 30th Sept, you guessed it zilch; nothing xe



An absolutely disgraceful company to deal with (http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/proviationshop.co.uk/5251b65e00006400025d705c)

I purchased a wireless weather station in good faith for a birthday present for my wife.
Ordered it, was told a 2 weeks later it was no longer available and offered an alternative. I wasn't too keen on alternative so asked for a refund. 4 weeks on and still no sign of refund. No-one ever answers the phone, emails do not get replied to, yet someone is tweeting on their behalf and still no sign of a refund or a call back. My advice would be to avoid this company at all costs. An absolutely 'pot luck' company to deal with, and until I get my money back, I will ensure they're reflected so in such a manner
Avoid, avoid, avoid



This text is a 100% accurate copy and paste from a website in the public domain that is supported by Proviation as a paid for client.
It is not an opinion one way or the other

[PaulKerry]

"Celebrating 5 years" it says

Companies house says not
Company Registration No.: 07516808
Incorporation Date: 3 Feb 2011 - 2 Years old


Proviation Ltd., may only be two years old whereas, "some bloke" trading as "Proviation" may have started 5 years ago and only as Proviation Ltd., would he have to submit accounts to Companies House. As a sole-trader ("trading as"), he would not have to deal with Companies House. He'd simply have to submit his sole-trader's tax-return to HMRC and they would not be published.
(Not that I'd defend "some bloke" in any way, shape or form but I do think that we should be rational and fair and understand how to correctly interpret what we read).

Last accounts filed year ending 29 Feb 12...
...now nearly 2014, I thought you had to post accounts if you were still trading?

From:
https://www.gov.uk/prepare-file-annual-accounts-for-limited-company/overview


File annual accounts with Companies House
9 months after your company’s financial year ends

File a Company Tax Return
12 months after your company’s financial year ends

Pay Corporation Tax
9 months and 1 day after your company’s financial year ends


That would suggest that he will be filing 2013's accounts in November and that the most recent accounts filed could very well be for year ending Feb 2012.

If he's as prompt and conscientious about his accounts as he is customer service, it won't be long before HMRC are sending rude letters and imposing fines.

Paul..

[PeterThomson]

Tried calling to get a resolution until my ear hurt. nothing, zilch, diddly squat. Don't waste your time and more importantly your money.

PS: had a look at that trustpilot site? I don't get it. There is loads of companies nothing to with us, am I missing something? I thought it would be something about trusting pilots.
At 63 I sometimes feel out touch with all of this tech stuff :bored:

[dom175b]

These guys should change their name to provication!

I have finally received my order, it was ordered from provication but actually came with a receipt inside from Pooleys! They are just middle men that are having issues funding this business in my view. I left 14 calls and 8 emails and never received a single call back. The worst customer care I have ever seen.

Please can we make a pact and all boycott this terrible Organisation and help bolster the businesses that do care about pilots.:\

[Davidt]

The bloke who runs this shambles must be a complete to**er to have gained such a poor reputation so quickly, hes trading in a minute market to a specialist audience, heres my story;

Ordered and paid for a 2013 Delage Guide and prop log book 23/6/13
Chased delivery and got an e-mail (standard proforma) apologising 9/7
Called and spoke to Nick who confirmed the Delage was back ordered and he would chase the publishers, he also apologised for taking payment immediately blamed it on Paypal who he said they had just started using 11/7
Prop logbook arrives 23/7
Nick apologises again by e-mail 23/7
After a visit to France where I'm told Delage "N'existe pas" I email Nick and ask for my money back 15/8
Complaint to Paypal who advise I'm out of time 20/8
Formal Demand for refund prior to legal action 31/8
County Court action issued 25/9
Full refund inc costs and interest rec'd 27/9

I note that as of today 12/10/13 they are still offering Delage 2013 for sale despite knowing that the thing is not available, dishonest or what!

My advice to anyone getting the run around from this clown, go to www.moneyclaim.gov.uk its dead easy to use, don't forget to claim interest at 8%

[PaulKerry]

blamed it on Paypal who he said they had just started using

Untrue. He's been using PayPal for some time now and this is just his usual tactic - blame anyone and everything else but his own greed and lax attitude toward providing what he advertises.
The simplest rule in business is don't over-promise and under-deliver.
Provide what you advertise in a timely manner and don't ignore contact from customers who have paid and not received their goods.

Paul..

[johno1066]

Wish I had seen this thread prior to making my own order, despite them claiming a refund has been issued, am now in the process of compiling a letter before action to ensure I get my money back, trust when a company behaves so despicably, is not an option.

Website claimed the product was in stock. I've had one member of staff claim that my order had been sent, only then (by another member of staff), to be told it hadn't, 5 emails, 3 phonecalls (all went to voicemail), a joke i'm afraid.

[CaptainChaos981]

Reposted from Trustpilot.co.uk, which I am now obsessed with !
If you can find it on an other site buy it there! (http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/proviationshop.co.uk/5266d176000064000260b505)

If I had looked at this review site before placing my order I would never have ordered from Proviation.
My story is similar to many reviews on this site, ordered a jacket showing as in stock on 26/09/13 Delivery method chosen: Standard Express 2-3 days, needles to say nothing arrived.
E-mail communications started positively with apologies for the item being out of stock however the e-mails soon became farcical with this one sent on 10th October being an outright lie "Just a quick line to let you know its due to leave tomorrow, hope this is okay?"
This extract from an e-mail, left me more than a little confused,
"A lot of jackets coming in, and going out, has made it busy over there. I was told to be patient- so I will keep my eye on this for you" busy over where? i thought I was buying from a UK shop, the part about them being told to be patient is pure Basil Fawlty.
In conclusion unless you need someone to talk to via e-mail without ever receiving your goods, avoid buying from this shop.


**********
The answer is simple. They stock NOTHING. This is a simple middle man "one man" operation who has listed every possible product available and has no idea if he can supply it. Avoid them, boycott them, and don't risk your order.

[PaulKerry]

I regularly look at TP, too... to see if Bloviation have come up with any new excuses. I see they've actually used the one suggested here, by you, I think, CaptainChaos.

This is one of my favourites.
After receiving a slamming one-star review from M Vouros, a confirmed purchaser on 25 January 2013 which reads:

EXCELLENT AT CHARGING!!!! But no goods and no refund!!!!

I ordered a Falcon altimeter on 10 May 2013. I was informed that the US production was slow. Two months later, I was advised by e-mail to consider an alternative product , which I did. So far, its almost acceptable.

On the 01 August and being unable to communicate with Proviation and of course with no ( alternative) goods received, I asked for a refund and guess what they said! .......NOTHING!!!!! Still can not speak to anyone!
All I want now is a refund and I can not even have that!
I am never ordering from Proviation again and my advice is, do the same!!!!!


They responded with:
Thank you so much for taking the time to review, we really do appreciate it and are very glad to have your positive feedback.

I have to laugh at that. I figure that their incompetence knows no bounds.

Paul..

[johno1066]

Well, that's that, asked for confirmation of a refund, was promised yesterday evening that they would check, nothing, checked spam filter, nothing. Letter before action sent, 7 days, let's hope I don't have to spend and recover another 25 quid through mcol.

The annoying thing about all this is, they have a potential for a nice little business, it's surprising how patient people are, if they know what the hell was going on.

[Mojo_69]

Just a quick update: the Advertising Standards Authority have agreed that claiming a product is in stock, when that is not the case, is improper. They have instructed Proviation to 'remove claims that items are in stock when that is not the case'. Proviation have not done so.

How surprising.

[mark one eyeball]

I started this topic
I have watched with interest the response, most of it bad, thats no surprise
You can deal with this company once and probably never again
This is a perfect example of how not to run a business

Internet in this case is a great tool to advise folks to watch out

[Blues&twos]

This seems to have gone beyond a simple inability to run a decent business into the realms of a scam. I'm no businessman, but basic morals suggest you don't repeatedly take money for goods you know you don't have, then ignore legitimate demands for refunds until legal action is taken. "Repeatedly" is the key word here. I don't believe there's a genuine desire to run a proper business anymore, based on the evidence posted here and elsewhere.

[Hammersrule]

Simple answer once you know. Dont use them
Is this the guy in charge??

http://www.scambook.com/report/view/262607/Proviation-Nick-Ross-Complaint-262607-for-$375.00

[PaulKerry]

Yes.

Paul..

[pickupvw]

Have a similar problem with Proviation after I ordered a headset on 30th Sept.

Money taken from Credit Card and after 1 month, numerous e-mails from me (with no replies) and, laterley, 2 phone calls I have yet to make contact with a human. Yes they still appear to be trading

[DerekJS]

So it's not just me then :*

I have had what appears to be the standard "treatment" from Proviation. I cannot claim that my purchase was for anything more exotic than Scenery for FSX, which is as near as I get to flying. but the treatment is exactly the same as is provided to "real flyers" . i.e. Instant acceptance of monies, items continuously advertised as "in stock" , no replies to email or telephone requests for delivery or refund, and strange behaviour on the live chat in that it mysteriously goes dead. I have an order # (Order 0-23329) dated 21 Sept and despite some suggestions that posts on here are all from one irate customer I can assure you they are not. A Paypal dispute has been started, so I will just have to see how things develop. It is not the waiting that is the problem it is the complete lack of customer CARE that winds up the average small time purchaser and ensures that we will never come back . :ugh:

As a non flyer I joined Pprune to help keep in touch with my low-fly photography hobby , not to moan about purchases, but when I Googled "Proviation problems" I did not expect to spent the next couple of hours reading through this thread. I guess I should have looked here first :eek:
Cheers Derek S

[PaulKerry]

I'd also recommend contacting Trading Standards. They will be able to advise you of the correct procedures to take before mounting legal action (although legal action shouldn't be necessary as you used PayPal) - however, the more reports there are about this shyster, the better informed they will be. This "standard treatment" has been going on for an extended period of time. It is not simply a transient blip in their service. If he is allowed to continually get away with his dishonesty, then more consumers will be in the same boat (or plane) as the rest of us. Trading Standards need to be fully apprised of this guy's behaviour in the hope that they will escalate it and bring him to book.
Too many people like yourself (me included) believed the dishonest claims on his website and then found themselves having to fight to achieve some resolution.

He has already shown that he is not interested in listening to his consumers. It seems that he thinks that the law applies only to everyone else and that he is not bound by the rules that govern the rest of us in business. It is going to take someone with a little more clout than one of his disrespected consumers to open his eyes to the fact that the laws apply to him, also.

Paul..

[DerekJS]

It appears that there is "life" at Proviation after all; I have just received an email stating that my goods "have now been dispatched to your requested delivery address at postcode.......... " ( I noticed the post code was blank:ugh:) Time alone will tell; I will not hold my breath as there is a definite pattern showing here;
1:- take order,
2:-grab money,
3:- ignore until customer starts to make too much fuss, then (ignoring request for cancellation)
4:- carry on as if nothing untoward has happened
5:- hope to get away with it again

It can only last for so long
Fingers crossed Derek S

[PaulKerry]

3:- ignore until customer starts to make too much fuss
Yes. Having spent nearly a year watching this clown's shenanigans, and going through the mill myself, it appears that response comes promptly when the customer posts their experience of being shafted, publicly. Then, within moments (in a fair number of cases), the sleeping beast awakes and responds.

You can have made all manner of fuss to his deaf ears until that point but miraculously, the moment your complaint is public, he's fawning and dribbling and making all manner of pathetic and incredible excuses, blaming everyone and everything else and spouting "poor me".

5:- hope to get away with it again
And he will. Over and over and over again.

It can only last for so long
As long as dissatisfied customers shut up and feel grateful at finally being responded to after being taken for mugs, it will continue ad-infinitum.

The way to stop it is not to feel as if he's doing us a favour when he finally covers his own backside and actually deems it necessary to deliver what he is dishonestly advertising as being in stock and fobbing us off with vouchers (as a "good-will gesture") to spend with him at a later date.
This isn't a favour. This isn't good customer service. This is damage limitation and an attempt to currie favour and elicit further business.

Don't fall for it. You have been treated inexcusably and when you finally get the goods for which you have paid some time ago and have had to fight to receive, don't be conned into thinking that he as actually done you a favour. He hasn't even managed to meet his contractual obligation.

Advertise goods - take payment - provide goods within a reasonable period of time. It's not brain surgery.

Pretend to be a respectable stockist and advertise goods that you don't actually stock. Pass on the order to the genuine retailer and take a cut for doing nothing much. Ignore all contact in the hope that the goods will eventually arrive. That's neither honest nor ethical business and as long as we allow him to get away with it, he will. The pattern will continue and you will not be the last to post here nor have his review removed from TrustPilot (go see for yourself).

Paul..

[DerekJS]

Yes Paul , I did notice that my review did not last very long on Trustpilot :ouch: Perhaps I made the mistake of (honestly) stating that I had come across this thread on PPRune which appears to be the reason for its withdrawal.
Between 19:18 and 19:44 this evening I received one email from Proviation and three from Nick Ross offering the usual , it has been said on here before; but interestingly the timeline runs


" items have now been dispatched to your requested delivery address at postcode "
"
Further to your online chat, please see message below which my colleague Alex sent across.

You should also have had a reply to an email on 23rd where we asked if the software had arrived.

Further to this, this evening, we marked this for re-shipment as we hadn’t had a reply from you.

I think some honest mistakes have been made here. If you’d like me to refund this order, I will do so immediately. Otherwise I have a copy here on my desk which I have now pulled aside. I can pop it in the post tomorrow for you as you wish.

Please do give us the opportunity to turn this around. I note you came onto the live chat talking about your review, and I see it has now popped in.

Cards on the table- we’re a small company – we’re not Amazon. We get things wrong but I’d expect to be given a chance to make it up and prove to be a company which is serious about service. We’re a family company- so we are all indebted to the company and its results. I’d rather we avoid negative feedback as much as possible.

I hope you can see we’re being honest and I hope I can turn this around. I appreciate it may be too late, but I hope there is some room to budge based on my sincerity.
"
"
Dear Derek,

You do need to confirm your post code, additionally.
" ( what were they going to do? run after the postman with a marker pen?)
"
Okay last minute correction. I have refunded you as you opened a Paypal dispute.

If you wish to re-order please do so and take £5 off with this voucher:

VOULD051986

I’ll ship tomorrow on receipt of the order."

I will decline their generous offer of £5 and just wait until Paypal confirms I have got the money back. "
So, it appears that as a company, they dispatch goods and then for no apparent reason follow up with a "check" to see if the goods have arrived , and then if no reply is received; follow up by re-sending the goods ( to a still un-established post-code) , I do not believe I have come across such devotion to customer care in my 66 years on this planet. :( perhaps I have mis-judged them after all. If they devoted a fraction of the time that they spend on damage limitation exercises blocking honest reviews on Trustpilot or posting drivel on forums that try to highlight their lack of service; and spent the time communicating with their customers they might find it pays in the long run.
An older and wiser EX customer of Proviation.
Derek S

[PaulKerry]

Perhaps I made the mistake of (honestly) stating that I had come across this thread on PPRuNe

No. You made the mistake of pointing out their failings.
I made the mistake of refusing to remove my review. Then refusing their bribe to remove my review. It disappeared within moments of telling Nick that he earned it fair and square. It was reinstated after I proved to TP that I was a genuine customer, though... and reported to TP some of their dishonest business practices, including removal of reviews, bribery, claiming a 5* TP status on their website (although that's now finally been addressed) and quoted the email in which he called TP a bunch of dishonest crooks.
I did suggest to Nick, not to take me for a mug and think that I'm a soft-touch. I guess that as usual, he just put his fingers in his ears and hoped the problem would vanish. Oooops !

Between 19:18 and 19:44 this evening I received one email
If true to form, that will have been soon after posting your TP review (or your post here), right?


I think some honest mistakes have been made here.
Yep. You sent Bloviation money. That was an honest mistake. I bet you'll never do that again, eh?

We get things wrong
But, if this thread and the TP reviews are anything to go by, in nearly two years, still haven't learned to get things right - like actually stocking what they claim they stock and shipping the goods for which customers have paid in good faith.

but I’d expect to be given a chance to make it up
There's that "poor me" again. Anyone would think that we simply place an order and if it doesn't arrive within the hour, start kicking up a fuss. No. Every single one of Bloviation's disgruntled customers have wasted their time trying to get through their brick-wall of ignorance. I think in every case, he was given a chance to make it up and get it right. Bleating about bad reviews and begging for a chance is insulting in the extreme.

and prove to be a company which is serious about service.
Service? Lip-service is the only service I see them being serious about.

I’d rather we avoid negative feedback as much as possible.
Then ship the products as advertised and quit with the drop-shipping arrangements, cheapskate! Deleting reviews doesn't avoid negative feedback. It just hides it temporarily - until those out of pocket find somewhere else to post where Bloviation cannot simply flag reviews and have them removed.

I hope you can see we’re being honest
Strangely. I can't. No. You see, I've heard it all before first hand and seen countless others reporting the same claptrap.

and I hope I can turn this around. I appreciate it may be too late, but I hope there is some room to budge based on my sincerity.

Yep. As sincere as a snake-oil salesman in a pin-striped suit.

If they devoted a fraction of the time that they spend on damage limitation exercises blocking honest reviews on Trustpilot or posting drivel on forums that try to highlight their lack of service; and spent the time communicating with their customers they might find it pays in the long run.
I told him almost exactly that nearly a year ago. Nearly word-for-word and offered to put him in touch with one of my clients - the CEO of a business specialising in Internet presence. His response - "I have a business consultant". To which I replied, "He's either not worth his salt, or you're not paying attention to what he says."

I'm reasonably sure that other victims have said much the same, too.

Paul..

[Mrdini]

So, it appears that as a company, they dispatch goods and then for no apparent reason follow up with a "check" to see if the goods have arrived , and then if no reply is received; follow up by re-sending the goods ( to a still un-established post-code)

I've avoided commenting on this Proviation thread up to now despite having issues with them as I felt that I had nothing new to add (I raised a Paypal dispute and got my money back - case closed).

However the above post by DerekJS reminded me...
The item I had issues with was a logbook and at one point, I was told something fairly similar to the above. I was told that Pooleys had sent me a new logbook directly (or words to that effect - might've been via Proviation?) to my address and I was like "Er? Never got it!". "Oh ok, we've got stock now - we'll send you one ourselves".

So it seems they've got severe issues as well with their postal service. (riiiight)

Another point since I'm already commenting - for those who've paid for their items with PayPal, keep in mind that you can & should raise a dispute via PayPal but be aware of their timescales - you MUST raise the dispute within 45 days of paying for your item. This is why I wasn't too badly burnt by Proviation - raised a dispute in time & got my cash back.

[XMole]

Just wanted to add my name to the enormous list of victims of these crooks.
I placed my £140 order on 4th Oct and my money was taken 3 days later. Its now a month later and my emails are being ignored. Sound familiar?
These liars need to be dragged through the courts then put out of business - not allowed to keep ripping countless people off.
I will be taking legal action very soon for sure.

[CaptainChaos981]

What a pathetic excuse for a 'professional' business (http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/proviationshop.co.uk/527952b4000064000263433f)
The latest factual Trustpilot review before it gets deleted by this nonsense of a company

------------------

If I could give 0 or negative starts I would gladly do. I have had two transactions with this company and both have ended the exact same way - a Paypal dispute to get my money back after waiting for more than 2 months to get the items I had purchased.

The story was nearly identical on both occasions - item shown in stock, I place the order, it is promptly acknowledged and all looks fine. Then a few days later I would get an email advising of some stocking issues but not to worry - my item will still be on its way with just a few days' delay. Then you wait and wait and nothing happens - calls are NEVER answered, emails only replied to once you show you are treating this issue seriously. The replies promise delivery any day, in fact I was told the item was already on its way a couple of times - lies lies and more lies!

In the end I am left with no other option but to raise a Paypal dispute as it is my only way of ensuring I get my money back. By then it is already 45 days since the date of the order. The Paypal process is completely ignored by the company, I just have to go through the motions of following it through to completion when Paypal eventually decide in my favour and refund me my money.

So the whole process from ordering to getting a refund has taken more than 2 months - a complete waste of time and energy and I would most certainly never have anything to do with these people ever again and would also recommend anyone who does not wish to be messed around to give them a very wide berth too.

[abgd]

Why did you buy from them a second time?

[Jonzarno]

A bit like remarriage following a divorce: a triumph of hope over experience? .... :p

[PaulKerry]

The phrase "sucker for punishment" springs to mind.

Paul..

[PaulKerry]

Latest bad review of Bloviation:
This review was removed at the usual time for "strong language". Then was reported for "Including personal or sensitive details about the company" and finally for "Lack of proof of purchase".

It has been reinstated so I am copying it here before it is flagged for some other bogus reason.

---

Money taken and nothing received! Do not do business with Proviation

I placed an order for an item for next day delivery with proviation. The item never arrived. I emailed them to enquire as to the location of the item and was advised that it was not in stock, even though the website offered next day delivery. My order was placed on the 17th October. Proviation promised by email to refund the charge for next delivery and deliver the item the following week once it was in stock. I think they were wrong to take money for an item and charge me for next day delivery when they did not even have the item in stock. I could have gone elsewhere and received the item in time! After emailing and calling the office with no response I emailed the Proviation on the 28th October to ask where my goods were, as still none had been received. In my email I told them that I expected delivery immediately or they should refund me the full amount charged. I managed to chat online with someone called [Name] who said that the money would be refunded. I advised them that it was unfortunate that they could not deliver as promised, as I intended to purchase 16 of the same unit ('butt kicker) £150.49 and they could have had a good size order from me, but now after the lack of service that I had received I was forced to go elsewhere. Later that same day I received a call from [Name], he did not apologise, he was only interested in gaining the order for additional 16 units that I required. I told him to refund my money immediately. He confirmed that the money would be refunded. Following the call I sent an email on the 1st November to advise the orders department that both [Name] and [Name] had agreed to a refund. I received a reply the same day advising that my order had been cancelled and that a refund could take up to 7-10 days to show in my account. I knew that this was waffle as I have made and received refunds on debit cards previously and they do not take this long. However I decided to be patient and give Proviation the benefit of the doubt. Now it is November 12th and no monies have been received. They still do not answer the telephone. I have called them since and no answer. I even have [Name]'s mobile number but he never answers his phone when I call. Avoid this company at all costs. They do not respect or appreciate their customers. They do not the first thing about customer service. They are keen to take your money, don't' be fooled by their website and hand them any of your hard earned cash!

---

Contrast this with Bloviation's recent claims:

" There is nothing worse than being left in the dark. Something we know, recognise, and will correct. "

... and earlier...

"...we are doing all we can in our business to ensure our systems are far more robust so as to prevent this from happening ever again."

So, they are doing "all they can" which means they cannot do any more than they are doing. If they are doing everything that they can and still failing, then this is a clear indication that this company will NEVER improve and the past two years' history is substantial evidence that no improvement is likely.

It seems to me that they are either incompetent beyond belief or lying.
I know where I'd place my bets.

Paul..

[dealaparty]

I placed an order for an item for next day delivery with proviation. The item never arrived. I emailed them to enquire as to the location of the item and was advised that it was not in stock, even though the website offered next day delivery. My order was placed on the 17th October. Proviation promised by email to refund the charge for next delivery and deliver the item the following week once it was in stock. I think they were wrong to take money for an item and charge me for next day delivery when they did not even have the item in stock. I could have gone elsewhere and received the item in time! After emailing and calling the office with no response I emailed the Proviation on the 28th October to ask where my goods were, as still none had been received. In my email I told them that I expected delivery immediately or they should refund me the full amount charged. I managed to chat online with someone called [Name] who said that the money would be refunded. I advised them that it was unfortunate that they could not deliver as promised, as I intended to purchase 16 of the same unit ('butt kicker) £150.49 and they could have had a good size order from me, but now after the lack of service that I had received I was forced to go elsewhere. Later that same day I received a call from [Name], he did not apologise, he was only interested in gaining the order for additional 16 units that I required. I told him to refund my money immediately. He confirmed that the money would be refunded. Following the call I sent an email on the 1st November to advise the orders department that both [Name] and [Name] had agreed to a refund. I received a reply the same day advising that my order had been cancelled and that a refund could take up to 7-10 days to show in my account. I knew that this was waffle as I have made and received refunds on debit cards previously and they do not take this long. However I decided to be patient and give Proviation the benefit of the doubt. Now it is November 12th and no monies have been received. They still do not answer the telephone. I have called them since and no answer. I even have [Name]'s mobile number but he never answers his phone when I call. Avoid this company at all costs. They do not respect or appreciate their customers. They do not the first thing about customer service. They are keen to take your money, don't' be fooled by their website and hand them any of your hard earned cash!

[Solar]

Coincidentally an AD for this crowd popped up on my Ipad recently, coincidence in that I had just been made aware of them through this thread.

[riverrock83]

An Airworthiness Directive? Thats impressive for a retail company!
:ok:

[Pegpilot]

AD = Avoid. Definitely.

[PaulKerry]

AD = Abysmal dropshippers.

Paul..

[PaulKerry]

Here's the latest one before it is spotted and removed from TrustPilot:

No goods received and no refund!

Quickest way to loose 700£.!
Placed an order on 29th of August for a zulu 2.0 headset.
Got an email the next day saying that the product was in backorder, but would ship in 2-3 working days. Nothing happened for several weeks, and it was close to impossible to get any contact with Proviation. No response to emails or phonecalls. Was lucky to get a hold on someboddy on the online chat a few times, but to no avail. Conversation was always cut off after they prommised to check on the order...... I have since then talked to them on the phone twice and received a few emails where I have been promised a full refund, but no money has made it to my account. I was so looking foreward to replace my old headset to a new one which wont give me a headache when I fly long missions, but I guess I'll have to save up again so maybe I can afford one next year. Now I will have to go throug small claims court to see if I can get my money back that way. Please save yourself from the hassle of doing business with these people!
Anders.



Also, I'd like to offer my congratulations to Bloviation for making it from 39th to 40th out of 45 in the "Hobby" category on TrustPilot.
Of course, they are still 5th out of 5 in the category, "Aviation" - Bottom of the list.

What is interesting is looking at the statistics from the other 5 at the bottom of the "Hobby" list.

No. 45 (3.5 out of 10) has only twenty reviews, very similar to those received by Bloviation but without any flagged reviews.

No. 44 (4.3 out of 10) has 12 reviews.

No. 43 (6.1 out of 10) has 1 review.

No. 42 (7.1 out of 10) has 1 review.

No. 41 (7.2 out of 10) has 2 reviews.

Bloviation has 386 reviews and scores 7.2 out of 10 - That is statistically significant. The others have very small sample sets and so the average score is greatly influenced by a small number of poor reviews.

Continuing up the list to find another company with a reasonable sample set, we don't see anything above 2 reviews until we get to No. 29 with 37 reviews and 8.1 out of 10.

We don't see more than 100 reviews until No. 16 with 127 reviews and a score of 9.3 out of 10.

No. 15 is one of only eight with more reviews than Bloviation with 470 reviews and a score of 9.4 out of 10.

These figures speak for themselves.

Paul..

[CaptainChaos981]

Until these cowboys stops removing Trustpilot reviews , I along with others will continue to reprint them without editing.

It is about time this company started doing something different. It gives the industry a bad name.

------------------------

TL;DR, do not purchase from Proviation. Don't take the risk, don't do it.

I ordered a pilot case which was listed as 'in stock' for my anniversary on 29/9/13.

I was informed the day after, and rather promptly, that there was a "stock delay" on the order, and the delivery was anticipated in 7-10 days.

A couple of days later, I was contacted again saying that the supplier was not able to get the case. I was asked if I wanted the order refunded, which I accepted. I waited the 7-15 days, and when the refund still didn't go through on my account, I contacted the company again.

I was told to wait 24-48 hours, and respond if it had not come through.

My breaking point came today, when I have been unable to reach the company by phone and my emails began to be "rejected by the server".

Proviation put a pretty big downer on my anniversary, which was supposed to be a relaxed and happy occasion. It turned into a series of apologies and unneeded stress for both of us.

If you are reading this, do not purchase from the company.

I am a student, and I am unable to just 'throw away' the amount of money that I spent, but reading other reviews, I have no expectation of getting either the product or my money back. They have messed me around and made promises that they are unable to keep.

To Nick and Alex at Proviation: I would love to be proved wrong. I will update this review every week as the situation develops, even if I don't hear from you.

- Caroline Thomas

[CaptainChaos981]

Potential customers have a right to know
------------------------

I ordered your bags in 30/10/2013 but haven't received yet. I contacted with you through email, telephone but do not have any respond. So, I am really disappointed.
What is an exactly date you can ship your bag to me?
I am a foreigner, so if you do not send me my order. I think that I have to call the police.

[CaptainChaos981]

I placed an order for an item for next day delivery with proviation. The item never arrived. I emailed them to enquire as to the location of the item and was advised that it was not in stock, even though the website offered next day delivery. My order was placed on the 17th October. Proviation promised by email to refund the charge for next delivery and deliver the item the following week once it was in stock. I think they were wrong to take money for an item and charge me for next day delivery when they did not even have the item in stock. I could have gone elsewhere and received the item in time!

After emailing and calling the office with no response I emailed the Proviation on the 28th October to ask where my goods were, as still none had been received. In my email I told them that I expected delivery immediately or they should refund me the full amount charged. I managed to chat online with someone called [Name] who said that the money would be refunded. I advised them that it was unfortunate that they could not deliver as promised, as I intended to purchase 16 of the same unit ('butt kicker) £150.49 and they could have had a good size order from me, but now after the lack of service that I had received I was forced to go elsewhere. Later that same day I received a call from [Name], he did not apologise, he was only interested in gaining the order for additional 16 units that I required. I told him to refund my money immediately. He confirmed that the money would be refunded. Following the call I sent an email on the 1st November to advise the orders department that both [Name] and [Name] had agreed to a refund. I received a reply the same day advising that my order had been cancelled and that a refund could take up to 7-10 days to show in my account. I knew that this was waffle as I have made and received refunds on debit cards previously and they do not take this long. However I decided to be patient and give Proviation the benefit of the doubt. Now it is November 12th and no monies have been received. They still do not answer the telephone. I have called them since and no answer. I even have [Name]'s mobile number but he never answers his phone when I call. Avoid this company at all costs. They do not respect or appreciate their customers. They do not the first thing about customer service. They are keen to take your money, don't' be fooled by their website and hand them any of your hard earned cash!

[PaulKerry]

Bloviation's most recent scapegoat - Sagepay.
Sagepay are responsible for them not shipping orders and ignoring customers???? Really????

:=

Paul..

[narnars]

Damn. I wish I had seen this thread earlier. I was the one with the 700£ headset. Or rather lack there off. How long can I expect for my trustpilot review to be under investgation? Nick asked me to take it down for the time beeing, or untill we could figure out where the refund went(sage pay). Guess I dont need to now. He took matters in his own hands. He actually asked me to open up a credit card dispute to get my money back... Which I intend to do today. And if that dosn't work, small claims court.
Anders.

[PaulKerry]

Damn. I wish I had seen this thread earlier.
You're not alone, Anders.
When I purchased from Bloviation, he was claiming on his site that he had a 5* "Excellent" TrustPilot rating. If only I'd bothered to actually go and look at TP, I'd have seen that his website was not reflecting objective reality. That might have given me a big clue that I should avoid this shyster like the plague.

I was the one with the 700£ headset. Or rather lack there off. I'm glad that you managed to find this thread eventually. At least here, Nick cannot simply make posts disappear into the void (as long as we respect the T&C of PPRuNe, of course).

How long can I expect for my trustpilot review to be under investgation?
In my experience, TP will probably contact you and ask you to prove that you are a genuine customer. This may take a few days or a few weeks. I would advise contacting TrustPilot and informing them that you were asked to remove your review and that it was subsequently flagged - To the best of my knowledge, companies should not be trying to influence customers in this way.
You'll notice that Nick is very quick to acknowledge positive reviews as "confirmed purchasers" but appears reticent to do so with negative reviews.

Nick asked me to take it down for the time beeing,

Yes. He asked me to remove mine, too - twice. The second time he offered me what can only be described as a bribe (probably one of his worthless vouchers). I refused and within moments of my refusal my review went "pooooof"... His claims that he is not removing reviews are contrary to the evidence.

or untill we could figure out where the refund went(sage pay).

... Delay tactics. What he hasn't told you is that you are only allowed to review each company once.

If you remove your review, it may be that you are prevented from posting another review for the same company. Don't hold me to that though.


Guess I dont need to now. He took matters in his own hands. He actually asked me to open up a credit card dispute to get my money back... Which I intend to do today. And if that dosn't work, small claims court.

That is probably the best action all round. If the credit card companies get many such charge-back claims, they may black-list him. It is about time that they did. You should also report your experiences to the Trading Standards authority in the UK (I think you'll need the Luton office) and direct them to this thread and to the TP reviews so that they can see the history.

I hope you get your money back sooner rather than later.

Paul..

[StardustAviation]

Well, I had ordered an item in May and still wait for the refund. If I would have seen these posts before, certainly I would not have ordered anything with these guys. Though it might cost me a bit of money in legal fees I will do the utmost to launch an inquiry into this Company. If somebody would like to support with their particular problems, please mail me to [email protected]

[narnars]

I have been looking around to find the trading standards authorety online but I'm not sure that I'm looking at the right place. When I find it I'll make sure to report the company. In the mean time I hope the Visa card dispute goes well so I can get my money back...

Anders