NZ Diploma in Aviation (Airline Prep.)

[NZ_747]

Hi Everyone,

Long time reader, first time poster here.

I am enrolled at the International Aviation Academy of New Zealand (IAANZ) in Christchurch in the new NZ Diploma in Aviation (Airline Preparation). The course has changed from this year in that it takes 2 years to complete, and schools are limited on the number of students they can enrol. Instead of just finishing with a CPL and MEIR, we also complete theory ATPL papers, a basic gas turbine course and an Airline Preparation course run by the Air New Zealand Aviation Institute.

I have been told by IAANZ that this new course will make it easier to 'get into' Air New Zealand, as completing training through one of the five selected Flight Training Organisations, makes us 'Preferred Candidates'

I am having doubt's over whether this new course will make getting into the airlines any easier or whether it's just going to cost me even more money, given the course is now 2 years?

Just wondering what people here thought about where the NZ industry is going and what the job market is looking like over the coming years?

Thanks for your time.

[27/09]

Will this course help you get into Air NZ? In theory possibly Yes, in practice probably No, is my opinion.

My reasons?

This course is aimed at those who may get into Air NZ immediately after the completion of the course. let's look at the reality of this. How many are doing the course through the various providers? How many low hour pilots will/can Air NZ actually absorb each year?

Air NZ can absorb very few low hour pilots compared to their total recruitment numbers, so that majority of graduates from this course will not go directly to Air NZ, they will need to seek work elsewhere prior to getting an airline job with Air NZ or anyone else. This course doesn't provide them with some of the necessary requirements (e.g. instructor rating) to help in obtaining work outside of the airlines unlike some other courses do.

As for the course itself I would imagine for what it is designed for it is very good but you need to be aware of what the realities of the aviation industry are.

As for what the future holds? That my friend is anyone's guess. I think there will be reasonable growth in this part of the world by that I mean Asia but don't expect a stable life style or high wages. One thing is for sure the glory days are gone, flying an aircraft for a living isn't going to provide the rewards that some aspire too.

[Artificial Horizon]

Actually, this is not as strange as it sounds. Air New Zealand has indicated that it will have 5 preferred flying school providers and that those who complete the approved courses will have 'priority' when it comes to recruitment into Air New Zealand. The idea being that they will recruit these people into the Link carriers as FO's. The kicker is that they haven't indicated whether this will be possible with a 'fresh' CPL or whether you will have to gain experience in GA first (as stated above). Perhaps just get the answer to that, if you have to go and get your 1000 hours anyway then you might as well spend that 2nd year out in GA building hours. The website would suggest you can go straight into Air NZ group:

First Officer Programme (http://www.aviationinstitute.co.nz/ai/school-of-flight/first-officer-programme/)

[mcrowe]

Mark Woodhouse from Nelson Aviation college wrote a good and (reasonably) unbiased article on what the new diploma is all about and what happens once you graduate. Its a good read. Can be found here:

http://www.nelson-aviation.co.nz/~downloads/Air%20NZ%20FTO%20Partnership%20Article.pdf

Note he states that you still need to meet AirNZ minimums (i.e 500hours for eagle)

[seneca208]

I'd agree with not taking much notice of IAANZ's word. I agree with the fact having trained at IAANZ, your resume might make it to the top 1/3 of the pile, however it won't secure you a job with Air New Zealand nor will it enable you to jump in with minimal qualifications (ie CPL and 200hrs).

Be aware that IAANZ is a business, with a training organisation on the side. Although every other training provider world-wide is the same, the IAANZ are there to make as much money as they can. Theres a few great instructors there, and a few not so good. I can only suggest that you decide how your training is going to flow- you decide when you're going to fly, and how often. Don't be pushed into corners and let others take planes and slots when you're equally entitled to.

The Diploma itself is for sure an upgrade on the previous business orientated diplomas. However, bare in mind the many thousands of pilots world-wide who have successfully conquered the heavy jets without a crappy diploma which the IAANZ will FORCE you to do.

[27/09]

bare in mind the many thousands of pilots world-wide who have successfully conquered the heavy jets without a crappy diploma which the IAANZ will FORCE you to do.

Bear in mind boys and girls that you will be "forced" or encouraged to finish the diploma requirements because that's exactly what you signed up for in order to qualify for student loan funding. Organisations that don't achieve an acceptable completion rate will lose the right for student loan funding. Just have a look around and see which organisations have lost funding for new students this year.

[haughtney1]

Hmmmmm, call me an old cynic, but if you were a betting man, what do you think your chances would be of getting one of the few Koru slots....if there are 5 schools supplying talent?
Flying schools require bums on seats, in this case it's nicely sexed up with some bumpf about MAYBY getting a shot at eagle, cook...etc etc.
In the end, it's a crapshoot, timing and being in the right place at the right time have just as much importance...well that was according to my un-named source in HR for what it's worth :ok:

[mcgrath50]

Are these places in EnZed over priced and arguably lower quality like the 'airline training' schools in Australia, or are they of a decent standard? If they are as good and/or cheap as anywhere else, what have you got to lose?

[27/09]

Generally of a decent standard, prices vary from place to place.

[aero junkie]

The training schools SOP's have been reformed and deal with more with "airline type" procedures, all approved by AirNZ. That makes it easier for AirNZ to deal with you as you already have an insite and understanding of there SOP's. Students through 1 of the 5 approved training schools can then do their AIC(Airline Integration Course) again that helps AirNZ cause you are further preparing yourself to fit in with them. But you can still apply to do an AIC if you are not included in 1 of the 5 approved schools, but preference is given to those in the approved scheme. You will also be required to do and aeros rating aswell (more $$).

[Poverty_Pilot]

bare in mind the many thousands of pilots world-wide who have successfully conquered the heavy jets without a crappy diploma which the IAANZ will FORCE you to do.

Bear in mind boys and girls that you will be "forced" or encouraged to finish the diploma requirements because that's exactly what you signed up for in order to qualify for student loan funding. Organisations that don't achieve an acceptable completion rate will lose the right for student loan funding. Just have a look around and see which organisations have lost funding for new students this year.

I too went through one of the many sausage factory type flight schools signed to do the "diploma" course.
I was never forced/pushed/encouraged to continue to diploma level. Once they've got your dosh they don't want to know u anymore.

PP

[27/09]

Poverty Pilot

Yes, that's exactly what used to happen at some places though not at all schools. As from the end of last year/start of this year those places that did as you mention generally have no new allocations to allow them to take on new students under the student loan scheme.

Please read what I wrote Organisations that don't achieve an acceptable completion rate will lose the right for student loan funding. Just have a look around and see which organisations have lost funding for new students this year.

If you do bother to look around you will find there are places that are unable to take on new students. I'm not going to name any on here but there's quite a few that no longer have student loan funding, and many with severely reduced quotas, most likely including the place where you trained. You can bet your bottom dollar that any that have funding are putting plenty of focus on getting their students to complete the diploma to ensure they continue to get funding in the future.

[27/09]

The training schools SOP's have been reformed and deal with more with "airline type" procedures, all approved by AirNZ. That makes it easier for AirNZ to deal with you as you already have an insite and understanding of there SOP's. Students through 1 of the 5 approved training schools can then do their AIC(Airline Integration Course) again that helps AirNZ cause you are further preparing yourself to fit in with them.

Sounds like mostly spin to me.

[scon]

aero junkie has hit it on the head outlining the idea behind the course. I have just become an instructor at one of the providers and a summary of the AirNZ program we have been given is "Be Air New Zealand’s preferred low-hour candidates for turbo-prop first officer positions in times of high demand for new pilots", I believe thats the standard line from the aviation institute. We have had a number of AirNZ people come and talk about it, from what I understand, all students will go through a standardized selection interview (with someone from AirNZ present), they will then complete training through to CPL + MEIR + ATPLS + BGT at around the 250 hour mark. They will at this point be re-interviewed for the Airline Integration Course, which involves training along the lines of a regional airline ground course (SOP's, bit of sim work e.t.c). Only after completion of the AIC will they get the 'preferred pilot' status. At this point they will need to go out into the big wide world and gain some experience. Once they have met the minimums (500 total, 200 multi e.t.c) it is 'expected' that they will be offered 'preference' for an interview.
Thats my understanding of the goings on anyway...

[27/09]

At this point they will need to go out into the big wide world and gain some experience

Where will they get this experience? In the majority of cases they will need to get an instructor rating to make themselves employable.

And then only to get preference for an interview! No guarantee of a job.

My suspicion is that this course will breed a crop of "my s**t don't stink" smart a**es that might find that their attitude isn't desired in certain quarters. I hope I'm wrong about this. If I'm not then the guys and gals that go the traditional route are going to have their odds improved when it comes to selection time.

All said and done my opinion is it will make stuff all difference in most cases which route an aspiring airline pilot takes for their training.

[flyinkiwi]

aero junkie has hit it on the head outlining the idea behind the course. I have just become an instructor at one of the providers and a summary of the AirNZ program we have been given is "Be Air New Zealand’s preferred low-hour candidates for turbo-prop first officer positions in times of high demand for new pilots", I believe thats the standard line from the aviation institute. We have had a number of AirNZ people come and talk about it, from what I understand, all students will go through a standardized selection interview (with someone from AirNZ present), they will then complete training through to CPL + MEIR + ATPLS + BGT at around the 250 hour mark. They will at this point be re-interviewed for the Airline Integration Course, which involves training along the lines of a regional airline ground course (SOP's, bit of sim work e.t.c). Only after completion of the AIC will they get the 'preferred pilot' status. At this point they will need to go out into the big wide world and gain some experience. Once they have met the minimums (500 total, 200 multi e.t.c) it is 'expected' that they will be offered 'preference' for an interview.
Thats my understanding of the goings on anyway...

That is is my understanding also. I wonder who is going to fund the extra 250 hours of experience one needs to get from the back door of the sausage factory to the front door at Eagle? Flying ain't cheap, especially when you have no visible means of support. It is hard enough for a weekend pilot like me who is on an average wage. I guess the quest to get those 250 hours will sort the men and women from the boys and girls.

[Corkey McFuz]

Uh.. you get a job ? like everyone else

[mattyj]

My suspicion is that this course will breed a crop of "my s**t don't stink" smart a**e.

Hah..sounds like a pilot..usually takes 1500 hours to get that attitude!! Saving 1250 hours!!

[Bongo Bus Driver]

Hell if you want a job in the Links just get heaps of brand personality and a university education.

[Roaring Forties]

This 'preferred pilot status' makes me spew!
This is typical of the crap that is being invented by the 'Gods of Aviation'. Lets think back a few generations. When TEAL became Air NZ and graduated onto jets, did any of that generation have to do all this crap that is being invented to create jobs and fleece $$ off young aspiring pilots NO ! But now they think that this 'new training' is essential in order to become a pilot. Well folks, I have flown all around the world, fixed wing and rotary, military and civil, from the African bush, the Canadian frozen north, de-iced 4 times in one day, 15x CATIII Landings in 3 days, deserts, sand storms and temps of 55degC, ocean islands, tropical asia, London at rush hr in winter LVP in progress, to remote islands 2:30hr in a jet to your alternate, pistons and jets, including Russian made acft. Trained in 3 different languages, had F/Os from 16 different nationalities who trained from country aero clubs to major 'approved schools' and some to whom english is their 3rd language. Cabin Crew from 26 different nationalities and worked for airlines in 8 different countries. (Well this will have half of you chomping at the bit by now)

In my humble experience from the above, I have found that once the F/O is settled into the RHS, it does not give a dam where they were trained. Last week here in Europe, F/O (300hr TT)fresh out of Line Training on the 2 crew 70t jet, only been on line a week - de-ice, LVP take off, 5hrs later land in sand storm, and then CATIII landing back in Europe at night== AND HE DID NOT DO ANY OF THE BU$h!t being invented by the TASMAN GODS as mentioned earlier-- and he did just FINE. Ciao :ok::ok:

[27/09]

I wonder who is going to fund the extra 250 hours of experience one needs to get from the back door of the sausage factory to the front door at Eagle?Do you need everything handed to you on a plate?

[27/09]

This is typical of the crap that is being invented by the 'Gods of Aviation'.To be fair, from what I've heard most of this c**p has been "invented" by non pilots, my guess mainly HR type people. I've also heard that a fair chunk of "senior" pilots think it's all c**p too.

[flyinkiwi]

Do you need everything handed to you on a plate?

That wasn't my point. My point was, it looks like they have simply wrapped up the current training reality and called it something else. The fact remains that there is 250 hours of single and multi time that needs to be paid for out of the prospective pilots pocket before the airlines will look at them. That has not changed since they rolled out student loan funding for pilots in the 1990s.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing? It is not for me to say because I am an outsider in the industry but the debate here makes for a very interesting read.

[scon]

Uh.. you get a job ? like everyone else

That in theory works, and those that do get a job I would imagine would have a good chance at an early interview. However getting that job is hard enough, let-alone when you will probably only have around the 100 hour PIC mark with maybe 200/250 total total. The only real option in this case is to do an instructing endo to get to those required minimums. Even then, there will be 50 hours PIC time one would need to get to that point. As most of the students going through this program will be student loan funded and as this program DOES NOT include a C-Cat that alone will be $10,000 at the least for one to come up with.
But time will tell the success of the program...

[mattyj]

If the two or three High priests sitting opposite you in the interview room don't like you that crap above are the reasons they give to justify chopping you. Forget about "not enough total time or not enough multi or not enough command or not enough jet time or no tertiary qualifications or boots not shiney enough or toilet paper caught in your boxers ...blah blah." They just don't like the cut of your jib!

[MajorCorporalArse]

As with everything aviation, hours hours hours.. command time hours is the main factor.. If it takes you 2 years to get the hours and all the theory done that's pretty good timing.

Diploma of aviation at current is a "wank" factor but it may become mandatory in years to come.

Put it nicely a student rocks out with the min requirements and a diploma of aviation vs a pilot with 3000 hrs 1500 in command without a diploma of aviation.. If i was hiring i'd take the real time experience.

[NzCaptainAndrew]

2years... I think the way would be to get a bare CPL in under a year (or integrated MEIR) then get into a scenic/charter flying or instructing. Work your way up... baby steps.

[Bongo Bus Driver]

Preferred pilots are easy to get on with. Aren't know it alls and most of all can fly the aircraft.

[framer]

Heyzeus wept!
The only people making sense here are Roaring 40's, Matty J and Windnz.
The reality is chaps, you're gunna have to work.
Get a CPL with a bare MEIR and knock on 300 doors in NZ , Australia ( not the east coast)' and Africa, tell them you'l do a hard days work for an honest days pay. Not only will you get a job as quick as your mates who are w@nking each other over diplomas but you'l actually get some experience and enjoy an adventure in the big bad world.