The Cost of Aviation Accessories

[sammypilot]

I am sure I am not alone is saying that, if you want to inflate a price for goods or services, all you have to do is add the words "pilot" or "aviation."
I was reminded of this fact this week on a couple of occasions. I noticed that one aviation retailer was offering a mechanical stop watch for £90.49 (plus postage.) When I was doing my IMC Rating I bought such a watch from H. Samuel rather than pay the inflated aviation price. I wondered what the current price was and found I could buy a mechanical stop watch from a retailer for about £27.50 with free postage. The other fact was that I needed a new external antenna for my Garmin 96C. Searching through the aviation retailers the best price I could find was £25.00 plus VAT plus postage. I managed to buy a compatible one from Hong Kong for £5.38 including postage. Does the job perfectly. Those are pretty sizeable margins we are being charged.

[L'aviateur]

I completely agree.

Walk into a yacht chandler, then you're realise how much someone can be ripped off. Selling rope is like erm money for old rope!

[airpolice]

Suppliers will charge what the market will pay.


It's called being in business.

[Genghis the Engineer]

It's turnover - a high street retailer shifts a lot more stuff, so can stay solvent on a much lower mark-up.

The aviation retailers, by and large, are not raking it in. But yes, they do add a lot, and it's fair game to make savings by buying elsewhere if you can.

G

[Private jet]

When i did my IR in Florida in the late 90's i went to Walmart and got one of those digital kitchen timers; dual stopwatches, count up/down, big clear display... $8.

[24Carrot]

... one of those digital kitchen timers; dual stopwatches, count up/down, big clear display...

I just wish I could find one that counts up endlessly, except when you push the single button, which makes it count up from zero again.

Just like a mechanical stopwatch, except with a big digital display.

Also just like the one-touch-reset timer you find on lots of Cessna Nav panels.

Incredibly, every "pilot" digital stopwatch I have seen fails to reproduce this most basic function of a stopwatch. Typically you need three button pushes. Adding half a dozen snazzy approach timers does not make up for this.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Let's turn this around - where are the bargains for the private aviator?

I'll start with:

- £8 stopwatch from Argos. Buy Boy's Sports LCD Stopwatch at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for Boy's watches. (http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/2779384/Trail/searchtext%3ESTOPWATCH.htm)

- UK AIP to save on buying either a VFR guide or Jeppessen plates (no, not quite as nice as Pooleys, but 100% free-er). NATS | AIS - Home (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=6&Itemid=13.html)

- Treasury tags, for making your own checklist combinations up. 5 Star Treasury Tags Plastic-ended 25mm Red [Pack of 100]: Amazon.co.uk: Office Products Available from just about anywhere that sells stationery.

G

[18greens]

You may be finding excellent bargain kitchen timers but are they fit for purpose.

Fly back stopwatches rule. In a kitchen 3 presses to reset is fine but as 24carrot says in an aircraft the single press 'fly back' function saves literally thousands of pounds. Any three press stopwatch in an aircraft is guaranteed to leave you staring at a 00:00 display after one minute because they are just too hard to operate in a pressured ( ir test) cockpit environment. I tied with an Argos stop watch and threw it away in favour of a fly back stop watch when my ir instruuctor explained to me what 'fly back' means. When you understand it you will do the same.

The treasury tag gengis mentions are great. But for uber cool checklist security try these Flexi-Lock Checklist Ring XL (http://www.flyboys.com/fb1002.html). Their kneeboard is excellent too.

So the saying goes, buy cheap buy twice. Or in aviation terms several hundred times. The stuff is expensive but the market is tiny.

[peterh337]

The more basic problem is that the pilot training methods have been mostly stangant since WW1, and since the vast majority of the pilot population is just "passing through" on the way to some other hobby, it is very difficult to merchandise a pilot shop imaginatively. They have to make money from selling the same old stuff - clothes, ATPL training materials, PPL training materials, watches, GPSs...

[thing]

Also just like the one-touch-reset timer you find on lots of Cessna Nav panels.I use my jogging timer for flying, that has a one press reset function like the elapsed time ones on the ADF panel, it cost about a tenner I think, big clear display and instead of putting the rope around my wrist I hang it off the yoke, or you could thread it onto your knee pad.

I use the AIP for all of my airfield plates too. I print off the ones I commonly use and keep them in my knee pad, check the dates regularly obviously. For instrument approaches instead of printing off the A4 size plates on the AIP, the RAF do a book of plates that are A5 size and they again fit neatly into your knee pad.

I think there's something nicely infra chic about using non standard stuff. My £6.80 Casio special keeps time as well as any Rolex Oyster and my battered old briefcase makes an ideal flying bag.

I might add also that if you mention the word 'Wedding' to any caterer or room hirer then their eyes light up as the bill automatically doubles.

[BackPacker]

On the other hand, look at the contents of a pilot case of an *experienced* pilot, and compare it to the catalog of your average pilot shop. There's a huge discrepancy between what you really need, and what the novice pilot thinks he needs. I think that's what the market for pilot shops is really about: Student pilots that have too much money on their hands but not enough opportunity to spend it on flying (after all, the next lesson is only next week...)

The timepiece that seems to have become the subject of this thread is a case in point. Yes, I have fallen victim to greed and bought the ASA flight timer. Never used it in anger once. Always used my analog watch, until yesterday, when I forgot it. But the on-board GPS displays UTC as well, so I simply used that. (Obviously for IFR hold timings you need some sort of stopwatch but any sub-10 UKP stopwatch will do.)

And there's other stuff. A few days ago I bought another pack of 100 A6-sized "correspondence cards" for 1.79 euros. Like a postcard, but completely blank. Those are going to be my plogs for the upcoming few years. Or my aerobatics sequence cards. Or my flight record cards to keep track of block times and tacho readings. Or as instrument cover when something is U/S. Together with a lead pencil, which is also used to mark up the map, it's all I need. Why would pilot shops need to sell 4-packs of pens in different colors, with the proper eraser, and kneeboard clips so that you can attach three different color pens to your kneeboard? Or four different types of pre-printed plogs?

Sick bags? A pack of zip-lock freezer bags from the nearest supermarket.

Flying clothes? My wardrobe already contained everything I needed.

Sunglasses? The ones I keep in the car do just fine.

Approach plates and such? As mentioned earlier, the AIP contains all you need, and is free. (Use the Eurocontrol site to get the AIP of all of Europe.)

Aviation GPS? My Garmin eTrex Euro plus OziExplorer, bought well before I started flying, served me well over the years. My 3G iPad now does the same thing for the price of just one App (Air Nav Pro). But frankly, on the majority of my flights I don't even bother with the GPS. Visual navigation/dead reckoning is really not that hard in VMC. (And for IFR flying with RNAV capability/routes, you need a certified panel-mounted GPS in any case, not a handheld one.)

Kneeboard? I bought an aviation one but frankly any A5 sized clipboard would do. Or A4 or A6 if you prefer. Available in any office supply shop.

High-viz vest? From the nearest DIY shop. In fact, I got mine for free at some event I attended years ago.

Checklists? The (authorized) club checklists for all our types of aircraft are available as a PDF download from the clubs website, so you can print them yourself. Or you can buy the laminated ones at the club, for 2 euro each.

That leaves the headset, fuel tester, E6B flight computer, logbook and the aeronautical maps as the only things in my flight bag that are proper aviation things, and have no substitute in the non-flying world. Is that honestly what we're concerned about? The pilot shops making a profit on a headset or fuel tester?

[thing]

Guitar shops are the same. Guitars, much like fishing rods, have reached the limit of their evolution, unless we are talking about micro incremental steps. Any extra evolutionary steps would render them 'non guitars' Yet there's still a whole industry of magazines and shops out there selling you the latest 'stuff'. Leo Fender invented the Broadcaster which became the Telecaster in 1949. Like wise Les Paul invented the Les Paul in 1954. They are still industry standard instruments, yet somehow they still manage to bring out every couple of years the 'latest' Telecaster or Les Paul.

A friend of mine used to run an angling shop and as he used to say 'I'm not here to catch fish, I'm here to catch anglers.'

[24Carrot]

I use my jogging timer for flying, that has a one press reset function like the elapsed time ones on the ADF panel

thing, could you post or PM me the make and model please?
The jogging timers I have (three now:ugh:) all require three button presses.
I had begun to think there was one single industry-standard chip for all applications.
Thanks, 24C.

[peterh337]

'I'm not here to catch fish, I'm here to catch anglers.'

That would be OK if there were attractive female anglers ;)

However I think there are even fewer of those in fishing than there are in GA :) :)

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

I think we ought to look at what we as pilots actually need to take with us. My list of 'essentials' for a day out is:

Chart - The only thing I buy regularly, which considering it is a flight safety item, should be cheaper.
Watch - Omega Speedmaster, not bought specifically for flying but I like it and it does the job as a stopwatch too.
Flight Guide - AIP copies of UK aerodromes if required, but AFE guide for airstrip contact numbers.
Mobile Phone - Essential these days, with WiFi
Cash - Essential for landing fees.
Headset - The cheapest one for the job. Does it receive? Yes. Does it transmit? Yes.
Radio - Icom. Not new, but works.
Fuel tester - Old glass jar!

Anything else just sits in my bag (which I bought in France for 50% of the price of a 'Real Pilot's case' over here)

I have French charts bought from French aerodromes, sunglasses from Boots, and a whole range of other pilot junk that just isn't needed..

[Will88]

My personal favourite is the 'pilot's kneeboard', a snip at £30 or so for an A5 clipboard with some SAR signals from WW1 printed on it.

:ugh: