Biggin Hill and Airfields around London

[172510]

I'm moving to London. I'll live at Vauxhall Bridge.
I'm looking for a place to base my Cessna 172 around London.
It seems that the only place where hangar space is available is Biggin Hill.
Would another airfield around London have hangar space available?

I drove to Biggin Hill from Vauxhall Bridge, I had to drive 1h30 following the quickest route my GPS found.
Would any of you know a quicker route? Or is 90mn the standard time?

The hangars for small aircrafts in Biggin Hill are on the eastern side of the runway, a 2 miles drive from the main terminal. If I chose to commute via public transportation, would it be easy to get a taxi to drive me to Bromley South, what would be the time I'll have to wait? Would they know how to get there?

My only experience with taxis from GA Airfields is in France, and to get a taxi at Toussus le Noble you have to call several companies until you find one who is willing to work, then you have to explain, several times, where the driver has to pick you up, then you have to wait a totally unpredictable time, from 5 to 50 mn. And then the guy tells you either that he wont drive you to Paris, but at the nearest train station, or that he wont drive you to the nearest train station because its too small a trip, but that he will drive you to Paris. And he will make you feel that driving you is a sort of a favour, as he would have better things to do. That's why I'm asking about Taxis in Biggin Hill.
If you fly to Paris, choose Saint Cyr l'Ecole, it's at a walking distance from the station, and the view of the Chateau de Versailles is included.

[thing]

Can't help you with the hangerage but in England taxi drivers go where you tell them to.

[John R81]

Driving in south of England is always slow. Trains will generally move you faster. Local taxi firm will rapidly get used to you and provide the link to airfield and back. Get an air map and take a look at the many airfields around London. In the same sector from London you will find Redhill (my base) Fairoakes and Blackbush. Life would probably be cheaper at Denham, so look around.

Good luck

[tmmorris]

I second the comment about taxi drivers. Very few bad ones here.

Denham is a nice airfield - would definitely save you money over Biggin but it depends on your budget. I'd be disappointed if you couldn't do Vauxhall Bridge to Denham in 45 minutes (Google maps says 35 minutes, though traffic is a MAJOR factor).

Tim

[sycamore]

Try North Weald;Weald Aviation on Google

[happybiker]

Try Headcorn in Kent. Friendly airfield with a grass strip and the owner has just erected a brand new hangar for parking. Trains run to Headcorn from Charring Cross every 30 minutes and it takes about 1 hour 6 minutes. Short taxi ride from the station to the airfield or you can walk it if the weather is nice, about 1 mile from the station

[coolbeans]

Last private hire taxi I took from Bromley South to Biggin was £12ish (datacars I think) or jump on the 320 bus from outside the station for £1.35 (it might have gone up a bit) takes about 20 minutes. A black cab costs £18-£20 from the stand outside the station.

[SEP Flyer]

I'd give Fairoaks a try. 45 mins drive from central London, hangers are in the right place, and very regular trains to Woking from Waterloo/Clapham (about 25 mins) and always loads of taxis at the station, which is 10 mins from Fairoaks. 800 metre paved runway with lights. Decent cafe.

I've flown to Toussous le Noble a number of times as well, only problem with with their taxis are the speed they drive :eek:

[007helicopter]

Also consider EGTO Rochester which has hangarage.

You can get trains from Victoria to Rochester about 45 minutes if a fast train and then a 10-12 minute taxi from the station to the airport.

[The500man]

If you're not bothered by cost, there are plenty of taxi's available at Bromley South. The 320 bus stops at the main terminal and by the flying schools so you'd still have quite a walk to get to the hangars.

If you're driving I would go either A2 - A20 and then through Bromley or A23 - A232 through Croydon. Neither route is particularly good, but they are better then using the A21 or the south circular due to all the choke points like Catford!

[Sir George Cayley]

Strangely, Shoreham is easy to get to from London. Take a Southern Train from Victoria to Worthing and get off at Shoreham by Sea. The line actually follows the airfield boundary. Taxi must be all of 5 mins to the Termianl.

Not sure about hangarage and there's an issue about handling. But with a good weather record and its own GPS approach I commend it to the house.

SGC

[Stephen Furner]

I support SEP Flyer in that Fairoaks makes a good potential option if located in Vauxhall.

I have been regularly flying a 172 in and out of Fairoaks for maintenance for several years. Consequently I have frequently used the trains and taxies to get there to collect it and get home after dropping it off. I’ve always found taxies at the station. Typically I’ve not waited more than 10 to 15 mins for a cab to come and collect me when I’ve telephoned from the airfield to go to the station.

Woking station is in fact a direct service from Vauxhall train station (44 min according to National Rail and quicker if you change at Clapham Junction to a fast train) and the taxi is about 10 mins.

From my experience of travelling around London distance is not a good metric for comparing between different venue locations. When travelling in London you also need to consider the route and types of transport you want to use and the impact of congestion on your journey. Time of day really does make a major difference to journey times; also, whether it’s a weekday or weekend when you need to do it.

I’m with John R81 - visit the airfields around London and choose one where you feel at home and that has road and public transport links that are good for the times you will need to use them.

[The500man]

White Waltham and Fairoaks are both about an hour's drive from Vauxhall Bridge. Don't know whether there is any available hangarage though.

[Cobalt]

I used to live in Pimlico and fly from Biggin for a few years, so am familiar with your problem...

A 1.5 hour drive is par for the course, quite short, in fact. Longer if you want to drive out there on a Friday afternoon... even when driving on a Sunday morning with no-one around I never managed less than 1 1/4 hour, if I remember correctly. And it's a pain, so I only did it a few times.

To get to Biggin I took the train to Bromley South and then a taxi from the station. There is a taxi rank at the station, and while not all taxi drivers are familiar with the south side of the airfied, you can always direct them. I allowed 1 hour for this trip, including the 10 minute walk to Victoria, and normally made it with 5-10 minutes to spare.

To get back from Biggin I took a local minicab firm [local to Biggin, that is, NOT to Bromley] and made sure on booking they knew where to go. However, advance booking was necessary, just calling them up would give you a 20 minute wait, and much longer if they are busy.

I was flying from the flying schools right at the entrance of the airfield estate, so it was easy to find. If you are hangared all the way around, for example in Hangar 504 or in the old Air Touring hangars, it might be more difficult.

There was a minicab firm present in the terminal that knew their way around, but they were very expensive, and without pre-booking weren't any faster than the locals.

So, in a nutshell, I would say no problem getting TO Biggin, but getting back needs an arrangement with a local minicab firm.

[chevvron]

Hangarage is available at Fairoaks, and as other posters have said, the train journey is straightforward (Vauxhall Bridge or Clapham Junction to Woking then taxi; more trains available per hour if you go from Clapham). Even driving to/from Vauxhall Bridge shouldn't take too long provided you don't try it in rush hour.(A3205, A205, A316, M3, M25 to Junc 10)

[MrAverage]

172510

Bakerloo, Jubilee or Northern to: Harrow and Wealdstone, Stanmore or Edgware. Depending on where you are in Vauxhall. Short taxi or minicab ride to Elstree. If you want to subsidise your a/c costs we could discuss a leaseback....................

[peterh337]

It is amazing how poorly London is served for GA traffic, for IFR.

A coordinated transport policy would have a GA airfield nearby, with an ILS at both ends, good transport links, and operated as a centre of excellence for all GA up to bizjets.

Instead, the light jets fly into places like Luton (where the entry level to touch the tarmac is about £500) which have better transport links into "London" than Biggin Hill :ugh:

[tomtom_91]

320 and then a half hour walk isn't too bad to get to the eastern side of Biggin Hill - I have been doing it for about 4 years now... - Security integration every now and then makes the trip a bit more fun... (Sometimes they offer a lift too!!)

If taxi is more your thing I know lots of people around the airfield use Cannon Cars (http://www.cannoncars.co.uk/) -
T

[The500man]

with an ILS at both ends, good transport linksWhich are both the reasons why Biggin will never become a big commercial airport. There's no space for an ILS on 03, and no one is gonna want to pay for a rail link there. It's also a bit too expensive for typical GA to base there now comfortably and it's not well connected enough for more commercial operations. Southend has no such problems.

[peterh337]

I wonder why Biggin is expensive, given that the place is full of empty hangars (or was last time I looked).

[soaringhigh650]

The last time I visited London I recall City Airport would have been best placed to serve GA operations covering Central London.

But I heard government policy dictating that the airport should only serve airline flights?

[The500man]

Pressumably Biggin is even more empty these days now Cabair has gone, or are they still trading? No doubt there is still plenty of airbourne traffic though given the location between the Gatwick, City and Heathrow zones.

I thought the reason, or one of the reasons, why City was pretty much a no go for light aircraft was to do with the minimum rate of climb requirements?

[Andy Mayes]

with an ILS at both ends

The lack of IAP in one direction (03 is it?) may change in the future!;)

The slight issue with Gatwick CAS is well documented and not an impossible hurdle to overcome.:O

Which are both the reasons why Biggin will never become a big commercial airport.

If they ever did want to become a 'big commercial airport' (and I don't know if they ever said they did) they don't any more. Biggin Hill Airport Press Statement (From News Shopper) (http://tinyurl.com/7znmgxm) They seem to do ok with the floods of BizJets they get a lot of the time.

There's no space for an ILS on 03

Maybe true for an ILS, but not for all types IAP's although many £££££££'s will be required by Biggin to prove this.

The road transport in and out of Biggin is, I agree, crap!

[peterh337]

Airports like Biggin would be wasting their time trying to become another Gatwick. They never can. They need to provide good service to GA of all sizes, and work on that. Same applies to Shoreham, incidentally.

[jollyrog]

Which are both the reasons why Biggin will never become a big commercial airport.
Some real nonsense being said here...

Biggin's problem is a planning restriction that they've been trying to overturn for some years, without success. They're not allowed to handle ticketed flights.

The transport options (lack of them) don't help, but if the desired aircraft can't get there in the first place, that's not the issue.

If they were taking EasyRyanJetAirs, it wouldn't be too much hassle to have a dedicated coach service to/from East Croydon, Orpington and Bromley South, from where the train services to Central London and other destinations are actually very good.

The service provided to GA at Biggin is nothing short of excellent. It's not much more than we pay elsewhere these days, landing fees are comparable to Shoreham, Redhill, Fairoaks, Southend, Blackbushe, Le Touquet and plenty of other popular GA destinations.

[chevvron]

Years ago I suggested to TAG that a 'second level' operation was feasible at Farnborough for those types who don't need handling, limo service etc. My suggestion not surprisingly was ignored, one of the reasons being the number of annual movements allowed. Now this limit has been raised, maybe someone should re-visit this suggestion, after all Farnborough already has Cat 1 ILS on both ends, and runway 24 could be Cat 2 with some minor changes eg revised lighting, 3 deg GP.

[Pittsextra]

Elstree has to be the closest - if you don't drive then just get the tube either Northern line or Jubilee lines terminate a short cab ride away.

I'm not sure how you are getting over an hour journey time to Biggin Hill however as from Vauxhall you'd be able to drive to Oxford in an hour and a half!

[24Carrot]

Driving from from Pimlico, (mid-morning, weekdays), I usually allow:
White Waltham: 50 mins
Wycombe Air Park: 60 mins
Redhill: 70 mins
Elstree: 90 mins! (I only did that once...:ugh:)

Of course, Hammersmith Flyover is currently messing up anything to the West.

[The500man]

Some real nonsense being said here...How is it nonsense? There is no space for an ILS on 03 and the transport links are not good. This remains to be the case even if Biggin could handle ticketed flights. All of these issues would need to be resolved not just one of them.


It's not much more than we pay elsewhere these days, landing fees are comparable to Shoreham, Redhill, Fairoaks, Southend, Blackbushe, Le Touquet and plenty of other popular GA destinations.Listing other expensive airports doesn't really make a case for Biggin not being expensive, though I will say that of your list Redhill and Fairoaks are on the better end of the spectrum, particularly if you join the flying club at Fairoks. Biggin and Southend are expensive, and there's no two ways of looking at that. No idea about Blackbushe or Le Touquet, but lets not forget there are still places around London where you can land for £10!

[pasir]

On the broader issues regarding Biggin Hill and possible expansion - There is little doubt it is the ambitions of the airfields controlling operator to
have aircraft movemements considerably increased - However each time such permission from the authority is sought they have come up against strong and active opposition from a poweful local residents group who - rightly or wrongly - forsee the granting of permission to operate scheduled services - or landing permission granted for arrivals of larger jets - would
result in Biggin becoming a replica of Luton.

Certainly Biggin has expanded its hangerage out of all recognition to the
Biggin of but a few years ago - and while the amount of jet traffic is
at the moment quite reasonable (for some) it has to be said there is little faith or trust in assurances or pacifying from either the Airport Authority or from Bromley Counci regarding any future expansion plans for Biggin.

...

[PhillC]

I've done a bit of flying out of Blackbushe, which is only a 35 minute drive for me from Twickenham. However, there is no hangarage available there, so probably not an option in this case.

[Vino Collapso]

On the broader issues regarding Biggin Hill and possible expansion - There is little doubt it is the ambitions of the airfields controlling operator to
have aircraft movemements considerably increased -

Sorry Brian but actually the movements have declined over the years as the GA sector reduces. We are no where near approaching the 125,000 movements permitted under the operating lease. Back in the 70's and 80's we could reach that figure just with flying club traffic alone!

The corporate market continues to expand, hence the increase in the number of hangars catering for them. All the locally based limo drivers know the best ways in and out of London.

[Romeo Tango]

I have a related problem in that now I have lights on my strip I would like to be able to fly to London in the evening AND fly back taking off at 2300+

Is there a (not too expensive) airfield near London that has lights and is open at that time (with or without ATC). I have always assumed not .... but does anyone know better?

[peterh337]

As an amusing aside, a product I am just finishing the development of in my business (electronics but not at all aviation related) will be a great solution for SMS activated pilot controlled lighting :) SMS to turn on, off after X seconds (X from 1 to 100,000), or off with another SMS.

[Romeo Tango]

At the moment I just phone the wife .... in due course I'll make something so I can turn on by clicking the VHF

[chevvron]

Sorry I've got to say it:
That's a quaint way of turning your wife on.

[Romeo Tango]

:rolleyes:

[jollyrog]

How is it nonsense? There is no space for an ILS on 03 and the transport links are not good. This remains to be the case even if Biggin could handle ticketed flights.
03 would be solved with a GPS approach and they already have a plan for the transport problems, else they wouldn't have been trying to lift the planning constraint for all these years.

Other big airports manage with rubbish transport. Been to Luton recently? The single rail station is a bus ride away and has less trains per hour to London than Bromley South. East Midlands doesn't have anything. Bournemouth is desolate, as I found one night when Ryanair dumped me there at 2300 due snow, instead of Gatwick. It was a 5 mile walk to town/hotel/rail.

Biggin would too. It's not hard.

[chevvron]

Isn't there/wasn't there a VOR/DME procedure to runway 03? If not why not, the minima will only be about 100ft higher than ILS.

[172510]

Thank you all for your replies.
It's very difficult to find hangar space around London.
Seeing so many aircrafts parked outside made me wonder if it's so good for the aircraft to be hangared.
Your aircraft in generally not in front when you need it.
Sometimes nobody is here to help you.
Every time you have to help other flyers, it's not that I don't like helping, but sometimes I'm in a hurry and I dare not refuse to help.
Birds love hangars, and especially my aircraft, I think rain is better for the paint than birds.
So I'll base my aircraft in Denham where I'm taking my CPL course, at least until I get my CPL, and my aircraft will be outside.
Denham is less than an hour drive from Vauxhall bridge, it's not so easy by train, but quite feasible.

I'll visit all the airfields you mentioned.

Another drawback of Biggin Hill is the lack of preflight briefing facility in the vicinity of the remote hangar.
An airfield you didn't mention is Stapleford. I think it must be an hour drive from Vauxhall bridge, it seems to be usable at night. But I don't know if they accept private flyers.

[AdamFrisch]

You can buy pretty decent covers for most A/C types. They protect pretty well from rain, wind and sun.

[Newlands]

White Waltham would be a very good option. I has a very nice atmosphere and summer flying there is amazing. It also has good airspace a round it such as Farnbrough and RAF Benson.

Ben

[cumbrianboy]

I live in central London and am learning to fly from Biggin and doing the journey almost every day, if I drive, I find the A2212 the best route as few traffic lights and generally lighter traffic, it looks counter intuitive on the map as it is further east, but it avoide catford and just skirts the edge of Bromley. The only sticking point is Grove Park to be honest.

Otherwise, I agree with the train, Victoria to Bromley South and either the 320 or the bus.

Either way driving in South London has always been a royal pain the rear end!