ATS training centres

[1Charlie]

31/01/2012 -
10/03/2012
Page Content
A British air traffic control training company plans to set up an academy in Wellington to attract foreign students.


Global Aviation Training Services chief executive Alan Siddoway said the school would open in June and would tap into the global demand for thousands of air traffic controllers.

The academy would be based at the Wellington School of Business and Government where three 3D control tower simulators would be built.

Global-ATS has two training centres in Britain and a third in Spain, training up to 400 air traffic controllers a year. The chairman is Wellington businessman Murray Cole, who previously owned Paraparaumu Airport and set up commuter airline air2there.

Global-ATS would compete with state-owned air traffic control provider and trainer Airways New Zealand for foreign students.

Airways has training centres in Christchurch and Palmerston North. The Global-ATS academy would also be open to New Zealand trainees, but because Airways New Zealand has the monopoly on training for its own control towers, Global-ATS students would need to look for work overseas. Siddoway said the Airway's training arm should be opened to competition as it was in Britain.


The academy would train up to 10 air traffic control students in the first year.

Globally, there was demand for up to 6000 additional air traffic controllers. "The demand is driven by the tremendous growth in the Middle East and particularly the United Arab Emirates, where the major new airport developments are being contemplated," Siddoway said.

The academy would also provide courses in aviation management for up to another 70 students a year. Wellington was chosen ahead of an Australian centre because the Kiwi accent was "a lot less harsh than the Aussie twang".

The central city location of the academy and a good mix of accommodation options for students were also in Wellington's favour, Siddoway said.
The poor English spoken by controllers and pilots in some parts of the world was a significant concern for the industry.

The Asia Pacific training centre in Wellington would provide Middle Eastern and Asian students with a total immersion English environment.
Air traffic controllers needed to be fluent speakers and thinkers of "aviation English", which was the global standard.

"Global-ATS students would need to look for work overseas. Siddoway said the Airway's training arm should be opened to competition as it was in Britain."
Don't know if I would be too keen to pay for my own training, then try to convince an ANSP to hire me without a validation or any experience...

[warsteiner888]

I have experience of the CEO for this new training centre. Lets just say I would never again trust the man with my hard earned cash. Future ATCOs and interested instructors be warned !

[Andy Mayes]

Avoid. That is all I have to say.

[chevvron]

Only ever met him once and I personally wouldn't want to be associated with him.

[Vfur]

Global-ATS the new name for ASTAC, need anyone say anymore!!!!!!!!!:ugh::mad::yuk:

[10W]

Be very careful about personal allegations and attacks.

PPRuNe is totally behind exposing companies and courses where people have been ripped off, but with that comes a responsibility to have hard facts and attributable comments, which might be depended upon in court.

If you can't commit to having your real name and contact details available (not posted on the site publicly, obviously) should legal action arise against PPRuNe, then your comments may not be allowed to stand.

Truth is, of course, not libel, but you may have to prove the truth to interested authorities.

[MERCATO]

Un fraude deja sin título a la primera promoción de controladores privados - CincoDías.com (http://www.cincodias.com/articulo/empresas/fraude-deja-titulo-primera-promocion-controladores-privados/20110905cdscdiemp_1/)

This happened in Spain, its an internet translation.

The British claimed ASTAC 1.3 million to 40 applicants for non-accredited training.
A title fraud leaves the first class private driver

The first class of 40 candidates to become air traffic control tower in Spain by the new privatized education system has not obtained any qualifications, despite having paid a total of 1.3 million. The British company ASTAC gave in 2010 about courses that were not reported or are approved by aviation safety agencies in Spain and the UK.



A title fraud leaves the first class private controller - Bloomberg


Antonio Ruiz Tree - Madrid - 05/09/2011 - 07:00
The process of liberalization and privatization of the formation of the new profession of air traffic controllers in Spain has not made a good start. After making the UK a course of five months (October 2010 to February 2011) at a British company ASTAC Limited, today 40 students from the first class have not yet received any kind of title enable them to start their careers and work in the control towers of the Spanish airports. The worst thing is that you may not ever receive it.
To take the course each candidate had to pay a sum of 33,000 euros, which gave to the University Camilo José Cela, who has acted as coordinator in the process of this new formula denied access to the profession of air traffic controller.
A group of pupils concerned have explained that the security authorities in civil aviation in Spain, EASA and UK CAA, refuse to approve the five-month course conducted in ASTAC Limited facilities in the localities Shoreham British and Gloucester. To justify this refusal the two organizations argue that they never ASTAC Limited announced the completion of the courses, a fact which is required. In addition, the curriculum developed in response to a degree of ICAO, the global agency for aviation security, but does not meet the requirements in recent months has approved the European Union.
To further complicate things, say the students, ASTAC Limited is from earlier this year in a delicate economic situation has forced the company sold to Global ATS.
An authoritative source of Camilo José Cela University has said that this institution holds payments made by the 40 students affected (1.3 million euros in total), and will not be delivered to ASTAC pending resolution of the situation. In his opinion the serious situation in which promotion is the first private Spanish air traffic controllers has been caused by "continuous changes that have been occurring in the liberalization plans of training." In any case, said that "40 students may have lost five months of his time but never money." The university is committed to supporting the solution you are looking for the Ministry of Development, AESA and the British CAA. This approach could be "conducting a complementary course or complete repetition of the entire training process, and in any case may have approved his European title before the end of the year."
Sources close to justify the refusal of Development AESA and CAA to validate courses offered by Astac Limited, but said they support the efforts of civil aviation to find a solution.
Meanwhile, an official of ASTAC in Spain avoided ruling on the issue.

[Gund]

This is interesting information. My queries below, should I be prepared to part with my cash for the training are:

1. Would I receive a UK CAA cert or an NZ CAA cert on completing the course?
2. Would this cert allow me to work anywhere in the world or only in the UK and NZ?

Thanks for any help anyone of you can give.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Gund. I'm not sure that the UK issues "certs". What you're after is an Air Trafiic Controllers Licence.

Good luck..

[AIRFLO]

The Press release about this new establishment refers to 'ICAO' courses therefore it would not entitle students to any UK CAA qualification...an NZ qualification would depend on the NZ Authority approving the college and course. Have they / will they / why should they?

[Gund]

Thanks... HD.

I'm guessing here from the tone of your reply that the air traffic controller licence will not be issued by UK or NZ? If not, will it be ICAO then? And if ICAO, will it mean that I can work anywhere in the world (sort of)?

Surely with a world-wide requirement of 6000 controllers, I should stand some chance... no?

Also guessing that if I enrolled for the course in NZ, the lecturers would be NZ controllers and therefore, I should be able to work in NZ.

[Neptune262]

ICAO has the following courses:

Air Traffic Control Assistant/Basic Induction (ICAO 051)
Aerodrome Control (ICAO 052)
Approach Control - Non Radar (Procedural ICAO 053)
Area or Approach Control - Radar (ICAO 054)
Area Control - Non Radar (Procedural ICAO 055)

The content of these courses differs from the European Common Core Content (CCC) ATM Courses. CCC courses are basically built upon the ICAO courses, but are further developed.

Individual countries' Aviation Authorities approve courses (own national training agency courses or CCC courses for example) and or acceptance of other qualifications (other country training agencies).

Therefore an ICAO course, although a good worldwide base, does not guarantee employment globally, as a nation's Aviation Authority may not accept it, without extra training.

Also just because NZ people may give the tuition, they will have to provide ICAO content, not NZ course content, therefore your qualification may not be accepted by NZ Aviation Authority, without extra training!!

Hope that clears it up a bit for you.

Just jump onto google and start doing some digging and reading!!

[Gund]

Thanks for the information.

I could therefore complete the ICAO courses, apply to any airport for work, they would recognise the training that I've received, put me through their local course/s and issue me an ATC licence which would allow me to work in that country.

What kind of certification would I receive on completion of the ICAO courses in order for me to apply to be trained locally?

[radarman]

Gund,

Why not ask Global-ATS direct. If they plan to start in June they should have the information to hand. If they are unable or unwilling to provide the information you require, start listening for alarm bells. Read posts 2-5 again, and do some research into the managerial and financial history of private ATC colleges. Then go back to posts 2-5 once more and read, mark, learn and inwardly digest the information and advice contained therein!

[Neptune262]

Gund,

I am afraid you have too optimistic a view there. You are most likely NOT to get a job, because the extra training required, will cost that ANSP, also they don't usually hire people without a previously valid licence, or with no operational experience. That extra training may be so substantial that it is more cost effective for them to send a local person on a full course than hire you. Sorry to send bad news.

Note: I am not commenting on any specific training agency, only the value of the potential qualification and to highlight the difference from the UK.

[2 sheds]

Gund

I agree with Radarman and Neptune. A so-called "ICAO" course might be a complete waste of money - unless a potential employer has approved it, as provided by a particular training organisation, as meeting their State licensing requirements. Ask Global-ATS which ANSPs accept their "ICAO" courses.

2 s

[Gund]

Thanks guys! Personally, I've done a bit of reading up and cross checking. For the moment, better to leave it and just watch developments, if any.

[1Charlie]

I would almost guarantee you wouldn't be employed in NZ as the only ANSP is Airways. There are no privately run towers, so you can't just march up to an airport and hand them your CV. Additionally, this company is proposing to go into competition with Airways who is already a contract provider of ATC training to various ANSPs overseas eg China and the middle east, so I wouldn't expect a warm reception at the door in Christchurch for anyone out of this college. I suspect the training of ATCs there will be under a specific contract to an ANSP that is unable to train its own controllers so the the course will be tailored to suit that particular ANSP / country. It makes no sense that you would walk off the street and pay someone to train you as an ATC there.

[Gund]

1Charlie,

I do see the point here. Clearly, the artlcle was kind of misleading, in that the impression given was that one could take an ICAO course (I've been told that there isn't such a thing as an ICAO course; that ICAO only provides 'technical training guidelines' for states to use when training their controllers) and find work anywhere.

What's come across to me is that I should have to be employed (be found suitable first) by the owner of the airport or atc centre and undergo training that's approved or recognised by them.

Not as simple as the article would have us interested in the training believe.

Thanks!

[radarman]

Gund,

Quote: Not as simple as the article would have us interested in the training believe.

You don't say in your first post where the article originated, but the first law of aviation is 'Don't believe anything you read in the press'.

[Gund]

Radarman,

I was referring to the article that 1Charlie posted on 4 Feb that gave the the impression (as far as I see it) that one could attend some "ICAO" ATC courses with the said college and on 'graduating' could apply for jobs anywhere in the world.

As for the other article posted by Mercato on 7 Feb - a translation of a Spanish article - I'm not sure what that is all about. Are you saying that one should not believe what the press is saying regarding this article, not that it's a coherent translation?

[Daermon ATC]

As far as the spanish article is concerned, I can give you some insight.

For the last two years air traffic control has had a very high profile in the spanish press... all of it extremely negative. The result is that currently spanish public knows for truth that atc is an absolutely unskilled work that about anybody with a basic grasp on english and some user-level computer skills can perform. Also they do not feel the need to question that apparently you have to work only a few hours a month to get six-digit salaries.
[IRONIC MODE \ OFF]

As a result of all that misinformation, a huge industry has blossomed in order to provide atco trainig. Also on a second order, lots of academies are now offering courses in order to help students to prepare for the selection processes of the aforementioned training centers.

So far, not a single atco has been hired (not even those who made the training at Senasa, which used to train them before normative changes two years ago)... ok, I'm lying... a few AFIS operatives where "upgraded" to atcos through unknown arcane incantations (probably EASA should have a look at that...) at El Hierro (GCHI / VDE) after the spanish government decided to remove atc services both from El Hierro and nearby La Gomera and the inhabitants of the forme staged massive protests. By then the controllers were long gone so the government just "enhanced" the afiso that had been sent there.

The article points to just one of those scams as Astac offered a course in alliance with a spanish private university... after all the time and money spent, turns out that those courses did not conform to european standards and thus are basically worthless.

My sincere recommendation is to stay with the "official" way and avoid shortcuts... they usually tend to take longer and cost more.

[radarman]

1Charlie and Gund,

There's enough on this thread now for you to read between the lines and make up your minds about the training institutions mentioned in various posts. Just remember two words - CAVEAT EMPTOR!

[Gund]

Thanks for the words of caution...

On checking around, it would appear that some training is being delivered in Spain by the same company that's mentioned in the very first post in this thread.

As far as I'm concerned, I shall give them a wide berth for now.

[ATSMAN]

You are dead right:confused: