here goes nothing

[SunnySahota]

Hi to everyone and anyone reading this.

I'm going to skip the part about my dream of being a pilot, etc etc etc...

About me:
I graduated from Brunel University (in West London for those that might not know about it), with a 2:2 in BSc Financial Computing. I'll be the first to admit that the 2:2 isn't exactly thrilling, but ironically it got me my current job 2 months prior to my graduation :eek:
I work as a Network Engineer for an IT and Telecoms company in London. Been on the job for about 6 months now and enjoying it. I'm getting paid which is the important thing, because No Money = No Pilot training.
I also have an awesome gf/future-wife who will be helping us save up (helping me with the pilot training and us with the deposit for a house)
We both work 2 jobs at the moment and will do for the next few years.

Our plan:
Now this is the part I would like to get some feedback on.

We're looking at saving (with the help of my wife-to-be) around £2,000 a month for 4 years, at the end of which we should have clubbed together, (not considering interest earned on savings), £96K.

I'm looking to do all my training modular (currently eyeing up Stapleford), and after taking all possible costs into consideration, the training (no TR) works out at around £44k, with £52K remaining (no interest has been taken into account yet, so it will certainly be more than £52K). That £52K can be used to put a deposit down on a small house.

During my training I will retain one of my jobs part time, or most likely try to secure an airside/airport job along the lines of a Baggage Handler, etc...

So that's the plan. My question is, what are my options are finishing my modular training? The two I can think of are;
- Flight instructing
- Type Rating for Mr O'Leary

What other options do I have available to me?

[TheFirstDohrnPilot]

Hi there.

I'm also thinking about going to Stapleford. And, I'm sorry, I don't actually have an answer to your question, it's just, you know you said that your training will cost you £44,000? What course is that?!
Because I was thinking of doing my PPL there, and surely it's not that much? More in the region of £7,000...:O

[Ginger Ninja]

you know you said that your training will cost you £44,000? What course is that?!
Because I was thinking of doing my PPL there, and surely it's not that much? More in the region of £7,000...

I believe Sunny was talking about completing his modular training, not just his PPL :p

I'm looking to do all my training modular (currently eyeing up Stapleford)

[talkpedlar]

...and you may not like this.. is to look after your precious woman.... get yourself on the property ladder.. and try to excel in your IT job for the next 3-5 years. IMHO... as a recruiter... anyone throwing a fortune at professional flight-training before 2014 will find themselves in a very bad place. Have you any idea how many folks with an fATPL are chasing those few jobs which arise? (Clue: Several thousand!)

Also consider the political landscape and the likely effect on oil-prices if the Strait of Hormuz is closed..our precious profession could be hit by severe cutbacks and sweeping layoffs... including many pilots.

Imagine how you'll feel in 2014/15..having spent tens of thousands of pounds.. and find yourself in a queue (even longer than today's) with zero job prospects.

Finally, please don't take for granted that you'll secure an offer from FR..have you any idea how many candidates screw the interview and/or sim-ride?

Just trying to help you smell the coffee....good luck all the same.

[ElitePilot]

It's impossible to predict the state of the industry in four years and what options are available. I think its even impossible to predict what it will be like next year especially in Europe.
At the same time, unless you have been selected by an airline through an integrated route it's always (certainly in the last 5 years) been a punt to commit finances to flight training with the hope of a job.
Another unknown is the popularity with airlines selecting MPL candidates over fATPL's. The new license is growing in popularity across the world and as time goes on.

Instructing is certainly a good route to consolidate experience and understanding that does not require a CPL now so is an option to do alongside you're "day job" (since it will not pay the bills/allow you to save).
There's a lot of info on the forum so the risks are something you need to weigh up and decide how strong you're motivation is.
One thing for sure if you decide to go ahead with it all, be prepared to move abroad for certainly the first job.

[SunnySahota]

@Ginger Ninja
I was talking about all the training, from PPL to MCC. The PPL alone comes up to just shy of £7,000 I think :)

@talkpedlar
Thank you for your input. I totally understand what you're saying with regards to the type rating route with FR. This is by no means my plan, it was one of the two most talked about options, so I'm trying to find something a little different, which doesn't involve paying £30K on top of everything already invested in the training itself.
The earliest I would start my training would be 2017, because I/We intend to save up for a large deposit on the house before I even think about starting my training. So at the time of commencing the training, we should have around £140K saved by 2017/2018, of which £50K would be for the flight training and the rest would be for the house.
And if at the time I feel that the market/industry is in the same or worse state it is in now, I'll be more than happy to abandon the full flight training, pick up the PPL with the IMC and Night Ratings, and buy a small plane locally to fly around in. That would most likely still be within the £50K budget :)

But again, I appreciate you taking the time to reply and give me your thoughts :)

@ElitePilot
I agree with what you say with regards to not knowing where the economy/industry will turn next month let along over the next 4-5 years, and this does make planning for the future a little harder. However, in saying that, I would be willing to take on any type of flying job, for it is FLYING I wish to do, and as such, not being in the RHS of a 737/A320 doesn't phase me. So like I mentioned above, even getting a PPL with the bells and whistles attached to it would be sufficient to keep the flying itch satisfied :)
Also, going the modular route means if at the time of training, the industry is in much the same sh1t it is now, I could utilise the PPL and possibly instruct until better times are upon us, and then continue. I know of several pilots that spent around 2 years doing their PPL initially, and then went on to complete the training via the modular route and get onto the airlines.
Granted, this was back in the early 2000's, but it just shows that integrated isn't the be all end all of flight training.

I have considered the OAA integrated route, but decided it wouldn't be fair on the other half. While I would certainly have the funds to pay for it without taking on a loan, I don't believe for a second that using the majority of our savings on flight training and leaving a small amount for a deposit on a house would be fair to say the least.

The modular route allows us both to make our dreams a reality (me with my Pilot training, and her with a small cosy house somewhere up in Slough lol)

Again, many thanks to everyone for their contributions, much appreciated :)

I just saw the time you guys replied. Does PPrune never sleep? :E

[TheFirstDohrnPilot]

I agree with Elite Pilot. But I would say that the training costs in the UK are higher than elsewhere...(Spain, US, New Zealand, etc) so why not spend some time in sunny Spain doing your course? I might be being very naiive here...??? haha :eek:

And thanks Ginger Ninja for that, makes sense now :)

[SunnySahota]

@TheFirstDohrnPilot
I have considered time abroad, and might even hop across the pond to build some hours, maybe fly from Florida to Vegas, who knows? But I would also like to do the hours building here in the UK, to maximise my exposure to UK airspace, RT, etc...
Decisions, decision...

[TheFirstDohrnPilot]

Sounds like a nice plan mate :) But I see what you mean. The UK weather is also worth getting used to, so flying abroad is a piece of cake ;)
And, trust me, I have looked online but i cannot find what MCC stands for (I'm not very good on computers)! It's bugging me as there are so many acronyms in this business. Like even RT, what does this stand for? :ugh:

Thanks for taking the time to answer my trivial questions!

[de facto]

It's bugging me as there are so many acronyms in this business. Like even RT, what does this stand for?
No need to flatten your forehead even more against a brick wall:ooh:
MCC:multi crew course(teaches you not to bang your head against someone else's if you think he s not flying well).
RT: Radio Telephony, you will have to pass an RT check to get your licence.just to make sure you dont start talking like the yanks do:E

[TheFirstDohrnPilot]

haha! :D Thanks de facto.
I thought these courses are included in the licence course? Don't tell me you need to do these separately and pay extra for them? :uhoh:

I realise that we're a bit off-topic here. Sorry SunnySahota. This is my last question :)

[ScotAviation]

The PPL licence that you're talking about is the basic/hobby licence, you've still got your CPL, ATPL Ground School, IR, Night Ratings, Multi Engine, MCC etc. until you're even close to landing a job.

You can't work with a PPL licence, you need far more.

[SunnySahota]

Hahaaa beautiful lol

Yes, the MCC = Multi Crew Co-operation course basically covers the skills required to work in a multi crew environment, where you have a Pilot Flying and a Pilot Not Flying

[SunnySahota]

I know. I'm saying that if the market conditions don't warrant following through and going all the way to CPL/IR/MCC, then I'll use the PPL + either a share in an a/c or outright ownership of a small a/c, which can always be sold later down the line when market conditions improve.