AA to cut 13,000 jobs

[GarageYears]

American Airlines told its unions Wednesday it plans to cut 13,000 jobs from the staff of 88,000 at the nation's No. 3 airline.

American Airlines: We'll have 'many fewer' jobs - Feb. 1, 2012 (http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/01/news/companies/american_jobs/index.htm?hpt=hp_t1)

[Airbubba]

American lost $30 million a day in December.

AMR Posts $904 Million Loss in Monthly Bankruptcy Report - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-31/amr-posts-904m-loss-in-first-bankruptcy-report.html)

Not that long ago, those folks strutted around the terminal like Delta pilots.

Looks like 400 pilot furloughs this time, plus the inevitable call for more pay cuts.

The downward spiral for the legacy airline industry continues...

[Count Niemantznarr]

As soon as an airline outsources its engineering to save money, it is time to stop flying with that carrier.

[griffin one]

Looks like AA execs have taken a leaf out of AJ,s book on how to turn a big airline business into a small regional carrier.

[Airbubba]

Here's the company's dreamsheet for the new pilot contract, they might get most of it:

http://www.restructuringamr.com/documents/APA%20Term%20Sheet%20Source%20Document_v10_FINAL_CLEAN.pdf

_____________________________

And here's an overview of the desired changes to the AA employee CBA's:

All Employee Restructuring Objectives

•Reduce employee costs
•Our approach to employee savings is focused on preserving base pay rates as much as possible by increasing productivity
•Implement universal changes to active and retiree medical for current employees
•Remove and relax restrictions on our business
•Remove structural barriers that limit flexibility and ultimately growth
•Eliminate pension underfunding obligations
•Terminate defined benefit plans to eliminate the company’s more than $800 million annual funding obligation
•Implement new first-dollar profit sharing plan

Overview of Pilot Proposals

•Targeted Annual, Permanent Cost Savings: $370 million per year (20% of pilots’ total costs)
•Approximately 400 pilot furloughs
•Lessen restrictions on codeshare and regional flying
•Increase pilot schedule max time to align with other carriers
•Improve scheduling through Preferential Bidding System
•Eliminate various premium pay options; provide sequence protection
•Reduce dependency on reserves
•Implement case management for sick absences
•Introduce pay banding
•Replace Pilot A and B (retirement) Plans with a defined contribution plan with 13.5% company contribution

Rationale

•Successful restructuring goes beyond competitive benchmarking. Any previous estimates of our employee cost gap aren’t relevant to our current situation. We are facing a far different challenge in the restructuring process, one that requires that we get to a cost and operational structure that allows us to successfully implement our business plan.
•We’ve worked hard to minimize impact on pilot base pay rates and jobs by focusing our strategic cost-saving efforts on productivity in contract areas like scheduling, reserves and time away from work.
•Restrictive contract provisions like Scope have limited our ability to compete with carriers that have more operational flexibility. The proposed changes to Scope will improve American’s ability to compete and will help better position the company for growth of the mainline.


http://www.restructuringamr.com/our-people-apa.asp

[Rollingthunder]

13,000 jobs lost IN America in Mtce. Perhaps American or indecipherable AMR should be re-named "Somewhere Else"

[lasernigel]

As a SLF used to fly AA a lot. They have never responded to two complaints I have made. Flew MAN-ORD-SJC, they have taken off the early flight at 0730 from SJC -ORD so now you can't connect to the ORD-MAN flight. This flight was always full and always had a standby list, is it any wonder they went into Chapter 11 with cutting back on services that were full!!
BTW the MAN-ORD was a 8hr flight in a 757, cramped seating, no individual in flight entertainment, poor meals and bad service. Until US carriers realise that the customer comes first and start by putting on a service similar to e.g. Middle East carriers, who fly similar length on flights between the UK and Middle East they deserve to go bust.
I have sympathy with the staff but none with the management who didn't keep the airline up to date with travellers expectations.

[11Fan]

As a nearly 20 year AAdvantage Member, this saddens me greatly. :(

[PAXboy]

It reminds me of 1988 and an American colleague who clung to the ailing PanAm, due to a hoard of their FFMs. I was working for an American Merchant Bank (in the UK) and most of us were using VS. He knew PA had poor customer service but he kinda knew it would not get better. And that was before Lockerbie.

Watching old companies die is not nice and it's really not nice for the staff on the inside. But the company will die.

[Airbubba]

Here's the Allied Pilots Association's somewhat muted call to battle over the company's latest demand for contract concessions:

posted on February 01, 2012 16:51

APA INFORMATION HOTLINE

This is APA President Captain Dave Bates with the APA Information Hotline for Wednesday, Feb. 1.

AMR MANAGEMENT PRESENTS SECTION 1113(c) PROPOSALS: This afternoon, management presented the Allied Pilots Association with their proposed changes to our collective bargaining agreement (CBA). I am sure that all of you, like me, will be dismayed when you see the wholesale changes management has proposed making to our working conditions, job security and benefits. A few of the most notable items include:

Termination of our defined-benefit pension plan.

Sweeping changes to our Scope agreement which would allow hundreds of larger regional jets to be operated at commuter affiliates, as well as the ability to outsource AA pilot jobs through domestic code-sharing agreements with other domestic and international airlines.

Widespread changes to duty rigs, sick leave and medical contributions.

Management also announced that there may be as many as 14,000 employee layoffs company-wide, including up to 400 pilots. While we are relieved that management has not proposed reductions to our base pay rates, a significant percentage of our pilots could face hourly pay cuts with the elimination of night and international pay.

With the assistance of our legal and financial advisers—who also attended today’s briefings—the APA leadership has already begun conducting a thorough analysis of the term sheet as part of our preparations for the resumption of negotiations. The APA Board of Directors has been in caucus today and is likewise participating in our analysis of the term sheet.

In a related development, the National Mediation Board (NMB) has informed APA that it is planning to re-engage in our negotiations, so we will no longer be in recess status.

As a further reminder, the status quo provisions of the Railway Labor Act remain in effect. Please continue your resolute focus on the safe and efficient operation of the airline and we will remain similarly focused at the bargaining table on ensuring that you are treated fairly and appropriately.

In closing, I want to emphasize that management’s proposal marks the starting point for restructuring negotiations. APA will be resolute in representing your interests to the utmost of our ability throughout the difficult process that lies ahead.

Thank you for checking this hotline. We will continue providing you with regular updates as developments warrant.

[bubbers44]

It is really nice to be retired from this airline. I flew to TGU to get away from AMR mentality because I came from a fun airline and was bought by AMR which made it a not fun airline. Once out of MIA you were done with the BS. Now it was fun again. Flying to TGU is the most fun job you can have. It is a bit sporty but worth it. It is named as the second most dangerous airport in the world. The first one was only Turboprop STOL's in Asia.

[Loose rivets]

I have used AA a lot over the last 10 years. It has gone from moderate to desperately bad over that time. Last leg home to the UK was 10 hours of torture in a seat just about big enough for someone half my size.

Small things like having a Visa card demanded for even the first drink. Can't the management see what this implies - the impression it leaves with the passenger? Dreadful food, served with an indifferent attitude. In flight entertainment? I'm long past caring about that, given they can only provide a 10c headset for the masses. Just horrible, and in my case, little choice of carrier.

I've been lied to about flight connection times. Having those lies substantiated by a VP of the company in a 40 minute conversation. Having my hold baggage fly the next leg without me, despite assurances it couldn't possibly happen. How legal can that be?

It goes on and on. I dare say mine are typical of thousands of complaints, and AA are now powerless to do anything about it. Fuel prices and a multiplicity of other authorities' hands held out for a share of the ticket price mean there is insufficient money to do the job.

Hearing about the shedding of maintenance staff leaves me wondering just what other cuts of vital services might be made behind the scenes. It seems to me the entire fabric of the industry is built on financial quicksand.

[stilton]

'The downward spiral for the legacy airline industry continues...'



Not sure which world you are living in Air Bubba but AA is the exception not the rule in the American 'Legacy airline industry'


They have been run into the ground by incompetent management.


If you care to inform yourself you would discover that all remaining 'Legacy's'


are consistently profitable.

[Airbubba]

Not sure which world you are living in Air Bubba but AA is the exception not the rule in the American 'Legacy airline industry'

Lad, I see you're new at this stuff.;)

If you care to inform yourself you would discover that all remaining 'Legacy's' are consistently profitable.

Izzat so?:}

[stilton]

'Lad, I see you're new at this stuff'



Hardly, I've been working for a 'legacy' since before you were a 'little bubba'


two bankruptcies, furloughs and many years of paying dues while watching
this industry go through the immense change required to finally consolidate to the point it can be consistently profitable has given me a little more insight than you

[Airbubba]

two bankruptcies, furloughs and many years of paying dues while watching this industry go through the immense change required to finally consolidate to the point it can be consistently profitable has given me a little more insight than you

With a success story like yours how can anyone say the legacy airlines are on the decline?

You Sir, are an inspiration to us all.:D

[stilton]

Delighted I could inspire you :ok:

[Turbine D]

stilton,

If you care to inform yourself you would discover that all remaining 'Legacy's' are consistently profitable.

With your experience, I don't think you should count the chickens before the eggs hatch. I am sure you are aware, airline profitability follows a historic sine curve over time. The median of the curve (neutral point) falls below the average break-even of the "Legacies". There is no reason to believe that is going to change anytime soon. Consistently profitable depends on how one looks at it, by month, by quarter, by year? At the moment, the collective profitability of the "Legacy" airlines would hardly buy but a few single aisle jets, if they had to pay cash. Perhaps this will change if the collective management of the "Legacies" decide the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence and tend to business in their own backyards, focus, focus, focus... Don't see this happening anytime soon, either.

[TowerDog]

AA has been going steadily downhill sine the day Crandal left: One idiot after another at the helm and now the employees are being raked over the coals to "save" the company. :sad:

A guy like Herb Kelleher or Gordon Betune could have made AA a jewel and the envy of the worlds airlines, but instead AA promoted bean counters and empty suits. The result of those decisions are going down in flames...:yuk:

[JW411]

Count Niemantzarr:

"As soon as an airline outsources its engineering to save money. it is time to stop flying with that carrier".

That is just about the biggest piece of rubbish that I have ever seen on pprune.

I came out of the front of the "Stable Inn" in Bangor, Maine on 26 May, 1979 hoping to complete my final "sign off" on a Laker DC-10. I was flying with the Chief Pilot. We saw on the front page of the local paper the famous Chicago photographs of N110AA with an engine missing about to hit the ground at ORD.

Your memory is obviously crap. (I was going to say defective, but you are talking bulls*it).

In order to change a CF-6 engine, it was necessary to offer a specially designed hydraulic trolley underneath the engine before disconnecting the engine from the pylon. The pylon could then be diconnected from the wing.

The totally wonderful American Airlines maintenance team concerned had figured that they could get more time in the pub by putting a forklift truck underneath the engine (which weighed a little bit more than your weekly Tescos shopping) and then disconnecting the pylon from the wing and taking the whole thing off in one piece.

The same team had created cracks of up to 30" in pylons using this wonderful process in at least three other aircraft.

AA maintenance were entirely responsible for the N110AA disaster.

Tell me again that outsourcing maintenance is a hazard?

[WHBM]

AA maintenance were entirely responsible for the N110AA disaster.

Tell me again that outsourcing maintenance is a hazard?
The loss of the Alaska Airlines MD80 in 2000 was a similar event, non-standard (ie down to a lesser budget) procedures, non-standard tools, ad fabricated justification for extending maintenance intervals, all at their main maintenance base in San Francisco.

[misd-agin]

JW411 - Continental was using the same procedure.


As far as being concerned about AA getting rid of mechanics? That's laughable - travel to Asia, or C. America, and look at all the US, and other countries, airliners getting overhauled.

CO? Overseas. DL? Overseas. UA? Overseas. SW? Overseas. AA's is just joining the crowd in an attempt to reduce it's maintenance cost.

[D-LZ 126]

Pilot jobs will be next...count on it.

We should have stood with our brother mechanics...

[TowerDog]

Pilot jobs will be next...count in it.


Not as easy to out source to China as mechanic jobs, but I am sure greedy minds in AA head quarters are loosing sleep at night trying to find a way to do it...:sad:

What we need to save this proffesion is a good old fashioned pilot shortage:
Low Supply and High Demand will make airlines compete for good pilots with one compensation package being better than the other.

With my luck the mother of all pilot shortages will start the day I have to retire..:*

[Artie Fufkin]

$900M in a month! :eek:

[cockney steve]

The fact of the matter is....
Too much capacity, not enough punters.

the rapid growth in air-transport for the masses was based on "pile it high, sell it cheap" as opposed to the previous, cautious growth of new developments, staff and procedures. Then, flying was the preserve of the wealthy,select few.

I'd venture to suggest that well over 50% of current western commercial Pilots would not have fallen into the correct social or financial demographic to consider that carreer-option as anything other than a daydream.

With the current world-wide recession, Joe public is no-longer jetting off for a weekend or annual break , in numbers as seen in the 60's to 80's boom period.


Until the world finds a humungous supply of fuel in a politically stable area or global economic well-being resumes
Or the pool of Commercial Pilots and Aircraft shrinks to fit the level of demand ,

then the future is bleak in all sectors of Aviation.

[sb_sfo]

The loss of the Alaska Airlines MD80 in 2000 was a similar event, non-standard (ie down to a lesser budget) procedures, non-standard tools, ad fabricated justification for extending maintenance intervals, all at their main maintenance base in San Francisco.

A minor quibble here, their maintenance base in the Bay area was Hangar 7 in OAK.

[Bastardeux]

I am a complete AA ignoramus, but are there any plans to try and sell the airline?

[Loose rivets]

To whom? The investment world has its canny hat on after getting burned.

[bubbers44]

I don't think anybody knows what is going to happen to AA. It looks to me like they wanted to dump their debt as all the other major airlines did so they could compete. They wanted to dump the pilot pensions on the government as all the others did to be competitive. In 2003 we almost went the same route but with the 23% employee pay cut held out til now. All the others dumped the pensions on the government so had a cost advantage so now AA is forced to do the same thing to remain competitive. I hate AA management but how can you compete with all the other major airlines getting government bail out but you? Think about it.

[WhatsaLizad?]

bubbers,

Your forgetting that the 23% number is only valid for those on seniority based pay. Pilots also have a seat based pay componet. I like many others took a a almost 50% paycut, making the average hit >23%.

[grounded27]

I don't think anybody knows what is going to happen to AA. It looks to me like they wanted to dump their debt as all the other major airlines did so they could compete. They wanted to dump the pilot pensions on the government as all the others did to be competitive. In 2003 we almost went the same route but with the 23% employee pay cut held out til now. All the others dumped the pensions on the government so had a cost advantage so now AA is forced to do the same thing to remain competitive. I hate AA management but how can you compete with all the other major airlines getting government bail out but you? Think about it.


I think you are spot on, but to add a bit. AA just made a humongous investment in modern, fuel efficient jets while they had the credit rating. File bankrupt, purge employees, contracts and unwanted aircraft under the deal, keep options on the new fleet. No major belief in their plan but none the less they have planned for this. How to compete with the massive UAL and DAL control of the domestic market given their compitition.

[misd-agin]

@Artie Fufkin - $900 million? Lots of bankruptcy accounting. Write offs, etc.

Actual operating loss was $3 million.

[aterpster]

Here is a link to the AAL May, 1979, inexcusable crash:

DCA79AA017 (http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=36919&key=0)

[sb_sfo]

Like him or not, Lawrence O'Donnell did a piece on this the other night. At nine+ minutes, it is incredible that a network show did this much depth on the issue of the pension dump, and a nice tie-in to the next election.

The Last Word (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45755883/vp/46231295#46231295)

[aterpster]

It was mostly typical MSNBC left-wing bias.

[Golden Rivit]

8486Mechanics/617 AC=13.75 mechanics per a/c.

[stuckgear]

As soon as an airline outsources its engineering to save money, it is time to stop flying with that carrier.


what a banal piece of rubbish. many, if not most carriers outsource maintenance to some degree or another.

[Huck]

It was mostly typical MSNBC left-wing bias.

That doesn't mean it's not true, in this case.

I thought it was the best defense of our profession I've seen on TV in quite a while.

[grounded27]

8486Mechanics/617 AC=13.75 mechanics per a/c.


Yes but as a Legacy they did the majority of their heavy maintenance in house. I suspect their cuts will be in overhaul for the most part. It is a shame, what they gain from outsourcing is not that great. The bean counters do not have the ability to guage the cost of OOS time as a result of this. Poor MGT is to blame as well as an old fleet they are trying to get away from.

[FoxHunter]

It was mostly typical MSNBC left-wing bias.

Too bad in this case bias does not change th truth. The Bain guys can laugh all the way to the bank, laughing about how they they were able to puck the AA pilots, while only having to pay 15% tax on their earned income that is considered unearned income.:ugh:

[Pugilistic Animus]

Now I can see why the lines of pilots going to live the Ex-pat life in Saudi Arabia used stretch out the door:uhoh:

[SeenItAll]

8486Mechanics/617 AC=13.75 mechanics per a/c.

I think AA may also have done maintenance work for airlines other than just itself. So the stated ratio may be deceiving.

[Tornado Ali]

Guys, not trying to wind anyone up, but this battles lost. Most of the US major's outsource maintenance. As an example, CO and DL send aircraft to HAECO in Hong Kong. The job is done in half the time, with a higher quality index, and a much lower cost. I know it hurts to hear it, but those are the facts. The only way forward is to strike a grand bargain with modified regs, pay and hopefully you can experience stable growth and increasing pay/benefits going forward. Whatever happens, best of luck. Sincerely.

[bubbers44]

Also after the engine separated they were ok but AA policy then was to do initial climb at V2 so to follow company procedure did so not knowing the LED had retracted because of loss of hydraulic fluid. Now we can maintain speed and not reduce.

Airlines tend to make procedures so the dumbest pilot in the group will survive with a mechanical problem so make it generic. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[Turbine D]

Relative to N110AA,

A concise summary of the blame would fall into 3 components:

Flaws in the Design:
The NTSB believed that the design of the DC-10-10 was flawed and lacked sufficient redundancy in the stall warning system. In addition, the leading edge slats did not include a mechanical locking device to prevent slat movement following a failure of the primary controls; FAA certification was based on acceptable flight characteristics with an asymmetrical leading edge slat condition. The pylon attach points were vulnerable to damage during maintenance. Finally, because the structural separation of the engine was considered extremely improbable by McDonnell Douglas, multiple failures resulting from engine separation were not considered.

Flaws in the Maintenance Procedure:
The modified engine maintenance procedure used by American Airlines to service the engines of its DC-10s was not thoroughly examined before it was implemented. Inspection of all DC-10s after the accident revealed similar cracks in nine airplanes. The ECO developed by American Airlines did not emphasize the degree of accuracy required to properly place the forklift and no evaluation of the ability of the maintenance staff to correctly carry out the procedure was ever made. When the maintenance staff had difficultly carrying out the procedure, no attempt was made to notify engineering of the difficulties.

Flaws in the Accident Reporting and Regulatory Mechanism:
Continental Airlines, using a similar maintenance procedure, had developed and corrected similar pylon cracks. Because the airline classified the damage as a maintenance error, neither the airline nor the the manufacturer reported the damage to the FAA. Furthermore, since the cause was determined to be maintenance error, no further investigation was carried out. American Airlines developed its ECO without the benefit of Continental's experience. The NTSB believed that it was the FAA's responsibility to make sure that such information was made available to all interested parties in a timely manner. However, at the time of the accident, FAA regulations concerning maintenance were generally vague, inadequate, and frequently unenforceable.

You can go to this for the complete report. Particularly, scroll down and read section 1.17.1:

https://hfskyway.faa.gov/(A(Lth2wzpEywEkAAAAMDExYTU2ZGItMGQ4YS00NjViLWFkOGEtMGE2Y2JlM zA3NTdht4RiDm1ayyGq7npl13dHGb5cu4I1))/HFTest/Bibliography%20of%20Publications%5CAviation%20Maintenance%5C American%20Airlines.pdf

[grounded27]

1011AA. From what I understand there was no special hydraulic lift, simply a forklift under the engine change/transport stand with the intent of engine and pylon removal.

The simple flaw was un expectected stress to the tombstone or FWD pylon to wing connection. To my knowledge they did this w/o any measure of weight. The common practice now is to use chain hoists or a special hyd lift with dyno's to measure the stress applied to the pylon (measure engine weight before disconnect from the pylon as null weight).

[JW411]

I really didn't want to re-open the N110AA tragedy except to point out to the Count that his comment was nonsense.

However, now that we are talking about this tragedy, I would like to make one comment.

I keep hearing that if the crew had stuck at V2+10 and had not reduced to V2 like they were taught then they would not have crashed. It is quite true that largely as a result of this tragic accident, we went on to a system that if you were at V2 when the failure happened, then maintain V2. If you were at a speed above V2 then maintain that speed. That is entirely logical but it was not the thinking at the time. In other words, if your aeroplane is still flying at that speed, then stick to that as a minimum. Not all of us are test pilots.

In any event, claiming that they crashed because they reduced to V2 does not really bear inspection. The fact is that the damage caused by the pylon and the engine going up and over the wing caused massive hydraulic leaks apart from the retraction of the slats on the left wing. (There was no manual reversion on the DC-10). Even if they had survived the reduction of speed to V2, they would have died anyway about 5 minutes later due to loss of control due to loss of hydraulics.

We re-ran this scenario in the AA simulators at DFW and it was not survivable.

Now, before the promising hysterics on this forum get started, this disaster bore no resemblance to the Sioux City tragedy. In that case they had lost the centre engine (No.2) and still had the wing engines which could be used for pitch and yaw. Had they lost one of the wing engines (like N110AA) they were equally doomed.

I think it might also be worth considering that the difference between Flaps Zero/Retract and Flaps Zero/Extend depending on weight was between 60 and 70 knots.

In other words, the difference in stall speed between Slats Extended and Slats Retracted was between 60 and 70 knots.

So, to have no slats on one wing after take-off was going to be pretty disastrous and 10 knots would not have made much difference.

[lomapaseo]

JW411

The fact is that the damage caused by the pylon and the engine going up and over the wing caused massive hydraulic leaks apart from the retraction of the slats on the left wing.

Your statement above is not meaningful unless you define "massive hydraulic leaks" in light of the design concepts of "shielding", separation" and/or "redundancy"

Are you saying that multiple hydraulic systems were compromised or just that one single hydraulic system failed that "was" or "could" not be accomodated through other systems :confused:

[JW411]

Lomapaseo:

I know you are a bit of a flight safety boffin from previous encounters on Pprune.

You are now asking me detailed questions about an accident that took place about 33 years ago but I will do my best to answer.

The DC-10 had 3 hydraulic systems - all of which fed the flight controls in one way or another. As already stated, there was no manual reversion (like they had on the B707). Therefore, no hydraulics, no control (except that it was just possible to fly using differential engine thrust).

I have in front of me two hydraulic diagrams from my original AA DC-10 manual.

The leading edge devices (slats) were controlled by No.1 and No.3 hydraulic system.

So, the loss of No.1 engine (and its pylon) when it went over the top of the left wing not only retracted the slats on the left wing but wrecked the No.1 and No.3 hydraulic systems.

That leaves us with the No.2 hydraulic system (and I make a huge assumption that it was entirely intact).

The No.2 system (and I am only talking about flight controls here) controlled:

1. Half of the outboard ailerons.
2. No.5 spoiler on each wing.
3. Inboard half of each inboard and outboard flap section.
4. Spoiler No.1 on each inboard section.
5. Half of each inboard aileron and flap section.
6. Roughly speaking, one third of the elevator (the horizontal stabiliser - which had the same wing span as a DC-3 was controlled by No.1 and No.3 systems. So even if they had survived all the other bits, landing would have been a little bit "tricky" - as we Brits tend to say).
7. The lower rudder.

If you are still with me, the rudder was in four pieces. It was protected by non-reversible motor pumps which ensured that a reservoir of hydraulic fluid would always be available for the rudder.

The rest of the flying controls had motor pumps fitted. In other words, as long as you had hydraulic pressure in one system, then the motor pumps would power the other system as long as there was no leak in either system.

I cannot promise that I can answer your next question but I will certainly try.

[sb_sfo]

AMR asks to hire more consultants in bankruptcy | Tulsa World (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=585&articleid=20120218_45_E1_Afterr283829)

[grounded27]

Sounds like UAL's spending of 400 million in legal fees to save 1.2 billion in labor costs.

[fly4bux777]

Looks like pensions will be frozen, not terminated. PBGC not letting AMR management "walk" on DB plans. Pilot's Union asking for "binding arbitration" on the remaining contract items.

[ironbutt57]

Keep hearing about v2-vs v2+10, but wondering how this is known, as the "black boxes" both stopped shortly after the engine separation, according to the NTSB report, unless this is just an assumption after the fact during a simulator rehash of the accident...

[Airbubba]

Looks like pensions will be frozen, not terminated. PBGC not letting AMR management "walk" on DB plans. Pilot's Union asking for "binding arbitration" on the remaining contract items.

Also looks like the pilots will have to drop the lump sum option of their A Plan to get the plan frozen instead of terminated.

The APA is going to poll the Supplement B pilots for authorization to end the lump sum provision of the CBA. As APA Prez Dave Bates explains it, if they drop the lump sum, the A Plan gets 'hard frozen' and survives. If they don't, the A Plan gets terminated and the lump sum goes away with it anyhow.

Of course, a lot can go wrong on the way to the courthouse in these deals.

More than at any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly. - Woody Allen

You can hire the US Air East pilots if you need any expert advice on 'binding arbitration'.

[Airbubba]

Looks like the bankruptcy is taking its toll on at least one of the AA FA's:

Authorities said American Airlines flight 2332 had to be diverted back to the gate moments before take-off over reports a flight attendant ranted to passengers over the public address system, saying the plane was going to crash. The crew member also complained about the airline's bankruptcy reorganization, according to reports.

Two people on board the flight told the Dallas Observer that the flight attendant had to be restrained by other crew members and passengers.

"We are not taking off," the female flight attendant said as the plane was taxiing on the runway, according to the passengers. "We're having technical difficulties. We are heading back to the gate."

Although another crew member told passengers to disregard her warning, the flight attendant kept ranting about technical problems.

According to The Dallas Morning News, she also referred to the airline's bankruptcy reorganization during her outburst.

"Captain," she said. "I am not responsible for crashing this plane."


2 Flight Attendants Reportedly Injured In Incident On Board American Airlines Flight | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/09/2-flight-attendants-reportedly-injured-in-incident-on-board-american-airlines/)

[Turbine D]

It has been reported that the flight attendant causing the disruption had a bi-polar health condition. According to the news report tonight, she expressed this to one of the passangers that was restraining her who was interviewed by ABC. This, according to ABC News this evening.

Perhaps, if true, maybe she had gone off her meds.

[captjns]

I guess that leaves 12,999 to be furloughed?

[Artie Fufkin]

Nice to see your empathy towards people with mental health issues. Hopefully the attendant will get the medical help she needs and be able to return to work.

[Airbubba]

It has been reported that the flight attendant causing the disruption had a bi-polar health condition.

This certainly raises questions about why someone in a safety critical position is allowed to work with a mental disorder. Anything along these lines would be a show stopper for a pilot in the U.S. unless you could somehow make it a gender issue.

I have colleagues who have taken medications for diagnosed depression. They are sick for exactly two years then suddenly become well since that is when the sick pay coverage runs out. They get their medical certificate back with no problem since their illness was post partum depression after childbirth.

Similarly, if a coworker exhibits unusual behavior in the cockpit you are encouraged to report it to the union or the company so they can get help. However, if your colleague sometimes dresses as a man, sometimes as a woman you are advised that any comments you make may subject you to discipline up to termination if the cross dressing colleague deems them hostile or insensitive. They have the right to 'explore their sexuality' in the workplace and you are the pervert if you disagree or in any way imply that their behavior is aberrant according to the modern airline view.

And, in an airline bankruptcy, you'd be crazy if you didn't have mental health issues with all the uncertainty and conflict. Like a lot of us here, I've been through the corporate BK more than once.

AA pilots recently viewed themselves as God's Gift, now they are beggars in the long line of unsecured creditors. Some have even stooped so low as pursuing expat jobs :):

Facing a bankrupt American, some pilots look to China for jobs - Business - MiamiHerald.com (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/02/24/2657806/facing-a-bankrupt-american-some.html)

China Lures U.S. Pilots Tired of 14-Year Wait for Airline Captain (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-27/china-lures-u-s-pilots-tired-of-14-year-wait-for-captain-s-seat.html)

I guess that leaves 12,999 to be furloughed?


Maybe not. In some cases with an airline bankruptcy, you keep more benefits if you go on medical leave. Some of my genius Deltoid friends had figured that if the BK went down they would suddenly get themselves diagnosed with sleep apnea and lock in disability, medical and other benefits. It didn't quite go as planned for the first couple of folks that tried it and some others ended up with endless sleep studies, CPAP machines and months out of work waiting for a letter from Oklahoma City.

The FAA seems to look the other way with FA's taking antidepressants and other psych meds. According to an FA friend, a lot of them take Xanax and there are doctors near the airport that will write a script after a very brief evaluation chat.

[sb_sfo]

Charlie Rose - Bob Crandall & Peter Greenberg on the Airline Industry (http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12228)

[Gove N.T.]

I remember the forklift incident well. I was in USA at the time and recall the coverage.
My brother - a captain with AA - was scathing, even then, about ORD and their MM team "short cuts." This was almost immediately after the incident.

Any smaller airline would have folded with such a disaster, but "too big to fail" springs to mind. Well AA continue but Willie Walsh might be worried with 2 of the One world partners ailing or gone and with Iberia's baggage handling record

[KingChango]

AA and Eagle merger. Fleet simplification
Job done:D

[offroad7]

Still a sad day for aviation

[Uncle Fred]

Thank you for posting that sb sfo. Very informative 30 minutes. I heartily agree with Mr. Crandall on the point that aviation is infrastructure. Why it is not treated as so always baffels me. Sure various parties mouth the shiboleth that it is infrastructure but it never seems to really be treated with what it does for the economy.

One can, and does, argue the merits of deregulation, and Crandall clearly states that on the balance he does not consider dereg a success. What I found most interesting however, was why he believes that. He made his points well. As Simon Jenkins said recently in The Guardian, "Deregulation is good in general but tends to be bad in particular." A sentence well worthy of debate I am sure, but I think there is some truth in it...

I never worked for him but at least it seems as if he is supporting the home team and that is a least something these days.

[Airbubba]

AA lost $20 million a day in February.:eek:

If something doesn't change fast, folks in Texas might remember the late Don Meredith singing a Willie Nelson tune...

DON MEREDITH - Turn out the lights... the party's over - YouTube4.flv - YouTube

Losses keep mounting at American Airlines

FORT WORTH, Texas

The parent company of American Airlines told a bankruptcy court that it lost $619 million last month as revenue declined from January and failed to offset costs including fuel and labor.

Since filing for bankruptcy in late November, AMR Corp. has lost $1.76 billion including $663 million in expenses related to the Chapter 11 reorganization. That's more than the $1.08 billion that the company lost in the first 11 months of last year.

AMR disclosed the February numbers in a filing Thursday in U.S. bankruptcy court in New York.

The February loss included $375 million in bankruptcy-reorganization costs. Most of that came from rejecting leases on aircraft and debt related to airport bond issues.

The company said that excluding costs related to bankruptcy and other special items, its operating loss was $186 million. AMR had operating losses of $5 million in January and $728 million in December. Its net losses, including all items, were $234 million in January and $904 million in December...


Losses keep mounting at American Airlines parent | The Salt Lake Tribune (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/53825917-79/american-amr-bankruptcy-million.html.csp)

[TURIN]

Heard a rumour that USAirways was interested on an AA rescue. Anyone else?

[deSitter]

Sad day for aviation? It was a sad day when they gobbled up a helpless TWA to a chorus of outright corporate lies to the city and people of St. Louis. It will be a joyous occasion when they are in turn gobbled and forgotten.

[FLCH]

Maybe they are crying huge losses to avoid the PBGC from holding their feet to the fire for the pension obligations that AA have ?

Once that is done, "miraculously" they will have enough money to come out of Chapter 11.

This play has been seen too many times.

[Airbubba]

Heard a rumour that USAirways was interested on an AA rescue. Anyone else?

Looks like that rumor has some legs :eek::

US Airways Files For American Airlines Merger; Unions On Board

Pilots: Combined Airline Would Retain American Airlines Name, Fort Worth Headquarters

April 20, 2012 10:42 AM

DALLAS (CBSDFW.COM) - US Airways officially announced Friday morning that it wants to merge with Fort Worth-based American Airlines. While it has not made a takeover bid for American, it has struck a collective bargaining agreement with the airline’s three main unions — the Allied Pilots Association, the Transport Workers Union and the Association of Professional Flight Attendants.

On Friday morning, those three unions — which includes American’s pilots, mechanics and flight attendants — released a joint statement in support of a takeover of American Airlines by rival US Airways. The three unions make up 55,000 of American’s 73,000 employees.


More here: US Airways Wants American Airlines Merger « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/04/20/us-airways-wants-american-airlines-merger/)

[400drvr]

From USAPA.


On behalf of nearly 55,000 American Airlines employees, including the 26,000 member Transport Workers Union (TWU), the 17,000 member Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA) and the 10,000 member Allied Pilots Association (APA), we are pleased to confirm our support of a possible merger between our airline and US Airways. We have reached agreements on term sheets for collective bargaining agreements that would govern the American Airlines employees of the merged airline with US Airways.

This significant step represents our shared recognition that a merger between American Airlines and US Airways is the best strategy -- and fastest option -- to complete the restructuring of American Airlines, which will allow it to exit the Chapter 11 bankruptcy process and restore American Airlines to a preeminent position in the airline industry.

As envisioned, a merger of US Airways and American Airlines provides the best path for all constituencies, including employees of both American Airlines and US Airways. The contemplated merger would be based on growth, preserve at least 6,200 American Airlines jobs that would be furloughed under the Company's standalone strategy, and provide employees of both American and US Airways with competitive, industry-standard compensation and benefits. The contemplated merger would also offer improved job security with a commitment to no furloughs for any currently active pilots or flight attendants. Over the long term, the combined new airline would support greater job security and advancement opportunities for both American Airlines' and US Airways' employees that are far superior to those available to employees at either airline on a standalone basis. Importantly, by avoiding a lengthy and contentious 1113 process, the new carrier would be able to emerge from bankruptcy more quickly.

A merger would create a foundation to establish American Airlines as a vigorous competitor of the two larger network carriers and the industry at large. Customers of both airlines and air travelers in general will benefit greatly from a viable third network carrier and significantly enhanced travel choices.

[sb_sfo]

Have USAir integrated the seniority lists from America West and USAir pilots yet, 7 years since the merger? Good luck with that...

[Airbubba]

Have USAir integrated the seniority lists from America West and USAir pilots yet, 7 years since the merger? Good luck with that...

Part of the sweetener in the 'term sheets' for the USAPA supposedly implies that the US Air-America West seniority will be redone but the American Airlines-TWA award will stand. Job security for lawyers for decades to come...

[cactusbusdrvr]

We are waiting decision from a federal judge that should put the whole East (old US Air)/ West (America West) seniority debacle to rest. The company went to court a year ago to ask whether they (the company) were liable for damages should they not use the Nicolau Award as the seniority list of record.

Recall that the company did accept the list from ALPA, just before ALPA was voted off the property by the East pilots who wrongly blamed the union and not their own negotiators for failing to listen to the arbitrator's admonishments that "date of hire would not be a factor in the resulting seniority list". So the only seniority list that is in play on the US Airways side is the Nicolau arbitrated list.

The APA has acknowledged in its communications with it's members that any new seniortity integration involving the American pilots will be done under the Bond-McCaskille federal legislation that mandates binding arbitration and prevents the "staple job" that APA used on the TWA pilots. That legislation was put in precisely because of the AA/TWA merger.

The expected seniority list integration (if the deal goes through - and that is a BIG if) will go on the lines of Delta/NWA which will involve certain equipment fences and a ratio of active pilots by seat and equipment groups. All sides know of the mess that has taken place here. No one wants to repeat it, least of all Doug Parker, the US Airways CEO and the driver of this deal.

[Airbubba]

AA pilots just rejected the LBFO (last, best and final offer) from management and now the ball bounces back to the company and the BK judge:

After the pilots of American Airlines overwhelmingly rejected a concessionary contract offered by AMR Corp. on Wednesday, the union president, Dave Bates, tendered his resignation at the request of the union's board, the Allied Pilots Association said Thursday.

President of American Pilot Union Resigns - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443991704577579192350054520.html)

Many of the AA pilots seem to think that the company will come back with a better offer, we'll see...:confused:

[captjns]

Outstanding... a union that has kept their balls. They value their worth and self respect to the industry:ok:.

[aa73]

^^^^^ what captjns said ^^^^^

I just couldn't sign a petition of no confidence in management and then turn around and vote Yes!

[Airbubba]

Did the pilots win this round? Do the work rules remain status quo?

Bankruptcy judge denies American Airlines request to toss its pilots contract and impose tougher terms

By Sheryl Jean
[email protected]
5:10 pm on August 15, 2012

A U.S. Bankruptcy judge today denied American Airlines Inc.’s request to toss out its collective bargaining agreement with about 10,000 pilots, saying the airline’s proposal to furlough 450 pilots and change flight code-sharing were not justified by its business plan or the practices of rival airlines...

Bankruptcy judge denies American Airlines request to toss its pilots contract and impose tougher terms | Airline Biz Blog (http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/08/bankruptcy-judge-denies-american-airlines-request-to-toss-its-pilots-contract-and-impose-tougher-terms.html/)

[galaxy flyer]

No, Judge Lane ruled that the furlough and code share sections did not have reasonable limits on them. He gave AMR three days to draft some limits and return. He actually was in agreement on AMR's RJ term sheet proposals--84 seats, huge relief from AMR current scope rules. Wait 'til next week for a final, but from most of the ruling, it's not good, IMO.

[galant1]

true, it is a poker game.

APA called AMR and the judge stalled AMR.
Yes AMR will come back with the changes to 1113 that the judge indicated need refining to match the industry average. But will AMR implement the 1113 and continue without a negotiated contract, I think not, by next week when the judge updates his ruling, AMR and APA would have sent feelers out to see when to start negotiations again. Or the house comes down burning.

Since Horton has made up his mind on the merge with US Airways is a good deal, American Airlines Makes A U-Turn Regarding The Merger - Seeking Alpha (http://seekingalpha.com/article/809661-american-airlines-makes-a-u-turn-regarding-the-merger?source=yahoo) the question when will Horton and his management team leave, being they will not be the surviving managers of the new AA.

[Airbubba]

true, it is a poker game.

Here's the latest card laid down. A strike vote is traditional posturing in airline negotiations and usually means very little from my experience. However, in this case, things are volatile and tempers seem to be flaring so it might be a bigger roll of the dice than usual.


American Airlines pilots union prepares for a strike vote

Posted Wednesday, Aug. 22, 2012

By Barry Shlachter

American Airlines’ bankruptcy just got messier with its pilots union saying it will consider a strike if the carrier’s parent corporation, AMR, scraps their contract and imposes “negative” new terms.

The board of the Allied Pilots Association on Wednesday agreed to start preparations for a strike vote and a spokesman said it could take place “within a matter of weeks.”

The announcement comes after the company’s move last week to ask U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane a second time to throw out the union’s existing contract and allow it to impose cost-saving changes. Lane rejected the company’s first request, saying it had overreached in two of its cost-cutting proposals. American’s new motion adjusted those provisions.

The pilots are the only union at American that failed to ratify a new cost-cutting contract with the carrier, with members voting overwhelmingly against it two weeks ago. Now it is the only union facing contract abrogation...

American Airlines pilots union prepares for a strike vote | Airlines and Aviation | Dall... (http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/08/22/4198691/american-airlines-pilots-union.html)

[jd4iron]

It is not laying the the card down, it is called ALL-IN as in poker. Metal stops moving.

[galaxy flyer]

Last US airline group to try this tactic was Eastern. That didn't work out so well.

[ironbutt57]

Last US airline group to try this tactic was Eastern. That didn't work out so well.

Eastern was an entirely different situation, as there was never any i,ntention by the CEO to keep the airline going, but rather to strip it's assets to support Continental, however, I dont see a strike achieving anything but being blocked by the courts....good luck to them all!!!

[bubbers44]

AA management is once again using tactics to cut costs via the employees as they did in 2003. They cut pay by 23% for all employees and gave themselves a bonus for doing so. They are corrupt people but will always find a way to take from employees then benefit themselves. I hope if a USAIR merger happens they fire every one of them.

[Airbubba]

Last US airline group to try this tactic was Eastern. That didn't work out so well.

I agree, the unions got the idea they were on a mission from God, the world couldn't do without them and they were going to trash the company to 'teach Lorenzo a lesson'.

'The Reverend' Jesse Jackson held a rally down at IAM headquarters on 36th Street during the Eastern strike. He was on a flatbed truck wearing an EAL captain's hat preaching to the choir with a megaphone. These union movements take on a religious zeal and get momentum but when you're being marched off a cliff maybe someone should stop and think about the big picture.

Remember how the FedEx folks were belittled for backing down in 1998 when they called off their pending pilot strike? They lived to fight another day and now they (and Fred) are making top dollar in the flying business.

I would suggest that going on strike is not the pro forma ballet it was a couple of decades ago where there was a settlement, everyone came back to work and you got a pay raise and a 'return to duty' line check.

Anyway, I paid all the assessments for the EAL strike, went to their HQ on Virginia Avenue in ATL to help out, and walked the picket line in another ALPA carrier's uniform. I remember the 'hospitality suite' in MIA, was it at the Sheraton? It was the world's biggest party for the first few days...

Any of you sea lawyers know what the rules are if the AA BK judge imposes work rules under 1113? Status quo is gone so the APA can go into self-help and the company can hire replacements? Or is a strike still illegal while operating under the supervision of the BK judge before a trustee is appointed? Some of this stuff should be in the AIM by now.:)

[viking767]

I don't think you will find Jesse Jackson involved this time.

[N1EPR]

AMR can abandon pilots' union contract: judge


REUTERS — 5:45 PM ET 09/04/12



NEW YORK (Reuters) - A judge on Tuesday ruled that AMR Corp, the bankrupt parent of American Airlines, can abrogate its collective bargaining agreement with its unionized pilots.



Judge Sean Lane issued his ruling from the bench at a hearing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan, saying the company successfully corrected certain issues that had caused him to reject its earlier same request.



AMR, which is seeking to save more than $1 billion a year in labor costs, can now unilaterally impose temporary work terms on its pilots as the sides continue to hash out long-term deals.



(Reporting by Nick Brown; Editing by Leslie Gevirtz)

[free at last]

At least they had the ba..s to stand up!!!! Haven't seen any of that in the last 20 years . Bus driver wages here we come. !!! Nobody backed the pilots now you have a garbage collector making more than a pilot. Shamefull !!!!!!!!!

[Hogger60]

I lived through the EAL mess, and have tons of sympathy for the AA pilots.

From Flight Global:

American to implement new pilots contract
By: Edward Russell (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/edward%20russell.html) Washington DC

American Airlines received approval from the bankruptcy court to reject its pilots contract and implement a new term sheet today.
US Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York judge Sean Lane approved the Fort Worth-based carrier's revised section 1113 motion to void its pilots contract despite concerns raised by the Allied Pilots Association (APA), which represents the employees, following a hearing in New York.
"Judge Lane's ruling is very important because it will allow us to implement the changes that are necessary for our successful restructuring," says American.
The airline filed the revised term sheet on 17 August following judge Lane's rejection of its original request citing concerns over the proposed codeshare and furlough language on 15 August.
Under the new term sheet, American can enter into unlimited domestic codeshares with Alaska Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines and other carriers with a few exceptions. Routes between Hawaii and Chicago O'Hare, Dallas-Fort Worth, Los Angeles and San Diego would be excluded from a partnership with Alaska, and the Hawaiian agreement would only cover intra-island flights.
New domestic codeshare agreements also cannot exceed more than 50% of American's domestic available seat miles during any 12-month period.
Furlough language from the now rejected contract was kept in the new term sheet. American can furlough up to 2,000 pilots and has a force majeure clause allowing for additional furloughs in the case of unexpected events.
American says that it will share implementation plans with the APA during the next few days.
The APA did not comment by press time.
The union approved a strike vote, which will begin when the new term sheet is implemented, on 22 August.

[bubbers44]

We have flights to the Reno Air Races coming up in the next week. Now I don't know if we will get there or back. Things tend to slow down a lot right about now when AA screws you again. We all tried to do our best to show our pain and make AA suffer also. I am sure it will happen again this time. Can't blame them.