Etihad A330 straddles runway edge lights in low vis takeoff at AUH

[draglift]

Just before midnight Z in Abu Dhabi on 29th Jan EY45 an Etihad flight to Dublin lined up on R/W 31L. Low vis procedures were in force with RVRs of 150 meters to 200 meters. The crew mistook the runway edge lights for the runway centreline lights and straddled them.

The flight aborted takeoff with a burst nose wheel. It had damaged 11 runway edge lights. The tug had difficulty finding the aircraft and said the visibility was about 20 meters. The aircraft was eventually towed back on to stand. The ground vehicle said there was considerable debris and broken glass on the runway. The runway was swept.

ATC would not allow any aircraft to take off as the runway lighting was damaged. Requests to take off from the opposite direction or intersections were denied.

ATC said that the other runway 31R could be used for takeoff but only if RVR's were above 550 meters. This did not happen until well after sunrise.
The incident in effect stopped all aircraft movements for 4 hours leading to numerous cancelled flights.

[Baywatcher]

They obviously used the ILS to check they were lined up on the centerline!

[woodja51]

Hmm... Blue edge green centreline ... Guess its easy to be critical, but yes , the LS button might have helped a bit...

[hapzim]

Hmm... Blue edge green centreline ... not on the actual runway though!

[golfyankeesierra]

Blue edgeon the runway?

Quite difficult to be critical;)

Not the first time that the colors are mixed up.
BTW what is the spacing of the edge lights at AUH? I guess the standard 30m, then 11 lights would be 330m; must have been some bumpy takeoff roll before they knew they were on the edge...

[ironbutt57]

Edge lights 60m (standard) centerline 15m...

[suninmyeyes]

http://i.imgur.com/ZDT0U.jpg

For those who wonder how this sort of incident can happen: When you can only see say 4 lights in poor vis it is easy to think they are the centreline ones especially if you can see no other lights to your left or right. The centreline and edge lights are the same colour.

Having ILS and or PVD selected confirms the aircraft is in the middle of the runway. You need to know if the airfield has centreline lights or not.

[Huck]

Maybe, and I'm just spitballin' here, we ought to not go when the viz is 150 M.

My company allows it too....

[Nearly Man]

Can't you find a pix of the computerised yoghurt pot 330 instead of the mighty 777? :}

[Basil]

Location: Could have been Doha but can't quite remember.
Dramatis personae: Capt, Bas (FO), FE.
Scene: Night. Taxi out up leg of T to left turn. Taxiway has very wide shoulders with edge lights on stalks.
Action: Bas leans down to right to find document and, upon looking up, finds Capt has interpreted right edge lights as CL lights.
Dénouement: ATC and Bas simultaneously annunciate concern. Aircraft stopped and company engineer called to inspect tyres. No damage noted (Lights weren't so lucky) and, following fulsome apologies to ATC, continued flight.

Debriefed en-route. OK, Capt did it, but Bas should have been paying attention instead of rummaging around. :O

[Jetjock330]

Can anyone confirm that another aircraft prior to this one, entered and lined up 31L and then had to ask tower to turn on the center line lights, because the center line lights were off????

If this were true, it could have implications too!

[draglift]

I don't know about the previous aircraft but apparently the Etihad said that when the red stop bars went out and he was cleared on to the runway some of the runway lights went out.

[Bearcat]

Well, if they took off with reduced RWY lights at 150m RVR they are in a world of poo.

[RAT 5]

If the taxi lights are as per EU then the CTR Taxi lights as you enter the rwy are green/amber. They lead you into the critical area and onto the rwy CTR line. If the rwy is also a landing rwy would not the full LVO carpet lighting be on, or is that off for takeoffs? A rwy is 45-60m wide. The RVR is >125m. Why should you not be able to see both sets of edge lights?

[Checkboard]

The tug had difficulty finding the aircraft and said the visibility was about 20 meters.

Really? :uhoh:

[poshjevarta]

Etihad flight hits runway lights amid zero visibility at Abu Dhabi airport - Emirates 24/7 (http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/etihad-flight-hits-runway-lights-amid-zero-visibility-at-abu-dhabi-airport-2012-01-31-1.440326)

[NG_Kaptain]

The day before I had to stop a few times when taxying because the taxiway centre and edge lights went out,the other company aircraft behind me experienced the same thing. Believe it was switching thing as we were "following the greens". We were operating to CAT IIIB, the challenge was finding our way about on the ground and this was home base.

[assymetric]

Quote:
The tug had difficulty finding the aircraft and said the visibility was about 20 meters.
Really?

I guess if that's what the Tug driver said, it must be so.

Where do you people come from.

[golfyankeesierra]

RVR is not visibility!
With an RVR of (reportedly) between 150 and 200m, the "road" visibility is usually less then 50m.
You really don't want to get in your car with that RVR's; 20m is probably not far off.

[Bredrin]

There are big issues wth the lighting in AUH. The taxi lights from the holding piont that lead to the centreline lights were inop for a previous depature and another aircraft had to ask for the centreline lights to be turned on.

[NG_Kaptain]

Actually, I feel more comfortable in an aircraft in those conditions rather than on the road. When you see a vehicle with hazard lights on(barely) in this region, you don't know if he's stopped on the shoulder or barreling down the road, or shoulder, at 140 KPH.

[suninmyeyes]

Assymetric

There is a considerable difference between the distance a transmissometer can report in fog and the useful distance in front of you that a tug's headlights will illuminate.

I suspect the tug driver was referring to the latter.

[dontdoit]

Rumour from a normally reliable source at an adjacent Emirate that the crew have already been sacked. Anyone know the truth?

[neilb767]

I would hope not.

[Jetjock330]

dontdoit,

Rumour from a normally reliable source at an adjacent Emirate that the crew have already been sacked. Anyone know the truth?

Not true!

[macdo]

Will they be sacked?

[Fox3snapshot]

Rumour from a normally reliable source at an adjacent Emirate that the crew have already been sacked. Anyone know the truth?

Suggest you wiki 'reliable' and find yourself a mate that is not so 'normal'! :hmm:

[FBW390]

Another exemple where the TO runway was not properly identified! Is it too difficult to press the LS push-button to check you're well on the LOC?
Will people ever learn?

[ARNA330]

FBW; Since no one knows if the Departure RWY has/had a working LOC or not, I have to say that it just shows what limited knowledge you display regarding LVTO requirements...

[FBW390]

Arna330: Why? I didn't say you need it! But if it's there, why not use it? 31L in OMAA has an ILS;
Who said it was U/S? Anybody got a Notam about that?

[fdr]

A better question would be what is the rational limit for operating?

If you are the manager, then 0m... unless they conduct a THA.
If you are the passenger, then.... 0m.... unless they understand THA and very basic physics.

If any of the stake holders (other than the crew) are under any illusions that LVTO (and as an aside LVOPS in general) are risky, just do the maths on the energy level of the aircraft on a takeoff. The A330 on a short run to the UK form the pit is going to have about 22TJ of chemical and kinetic energy around V1/rotate... and is assumed that no failure occurs above 80/100KCAS going through to V1, hopefully. That appears to be enough to spoil your day if as has been commented "people will never learn..." and some form of badness occurs.

badnesses... wrong runway, ie SQ6, offset, AUH (SQ at SYD landing... :)) birdstrike on roll... engine fail, incapacitation, loss of visibility etc. etc. etc. etc. Can the crews be trained to cope with these events? probably. (I recall getting loss of viz above 80, critical engine fail at V1, and a second engine failure at rotate, with limit XW and yes/maybe, in a sim you can probably make it... wouldn't want to verify that scenario in a real aircraft. In the real world, having loss of viz in a LVTO is very unpleasant, about as much fun as a brown out on an assault landing...).

The current viz criteria for LVTO may sound reasonable, but if you are entering a runway in a right turn, the visual segment is such that the LH guy (Capt) gets to see zip in limit conditions. Not the case at AUH for 31L... but a factor at CKS/SQ6 and also in Basil's well rendered war story.


LVTO are critical ops, no question, yet they are treated as mundane technicalities by all other than the crew in general. I would doubt that at AUH the crew were as unconcerned as the rest of the system is, but there is always different ways of approaching the task at hand.

Report will be interesting.

In mean time, a great reminder of what should be seen outside on a line up, and to support such operations with a LLZ/PVD etc. counting the lights to verify the legal viz could protect more than the legalities, it may even save some "frangible" light pedestals and bulbs.

"History is the witness that testifies to the passing of time; it illuminates reality, vitalises memory, provides guidance in daily life and brings us tidings of antiquity" Cicero (106 BC- 43 BC), Pro Publio Sestio

[I-2021]

Another exemple where the TO runway was not properly identified! Is it too difficult to press the LS push-button to check you're well on the LOC?
Will people ever learn?

FBW truly hope you are not one of these "it-will-never-happen-to-me" CRM case studies. No one knows what happened exactly on that takeoff and in which conditions it was performed. No one knows, except those in charge of the case, what went wrong and at what stage the "error", if any, occurred. What we can do, as professionals, is learn by this experience and share our own thoughts but I believe that judging people without having any clue of what happened inside that cockpit is purely a nonsense.

Cheers.

[FBW390]

"it-will-never-happen-to-me" is the last thing I will say and think. I just observe and try to do my job with the high standards I've been trained to; but believe me I have seen and see in the cockpit nearly every day I fly very few people Identifying seriously and propely the TO runway; yes, in Asia, training standards are getting very low sometimes...Young FOs and Capts on big aircraft more and more...
On the other hand, that's true, we don't know all what happened that day in AUH.

Cheers,

[haejangkuk]

yes, in Asia, training standards are getting very low sometimes...Young FOs and Capts on big aircraft more and more...


Wow, such an astute observation. But with people in Europe and the rest of the first world having sch a headstart in aviation, folks are still taking off from taxiways, landing on taxiways and planting aircrafts into the sea. Well one would think that with that great headstart and such high standards ( by iference ), there would have been ZERO accidents/incidents.:ouch::rolleyes:

[grounded27]

A HUD with FLIR would have prevented this.

[Mr Good Cat]

Another exemple where the TO runway was not properly identified! Is it too difficult to press the LS push-button to check you're well on the LOC?
Will people ever learn?

"it-will-never-happen-to-me" is the last thing I will say and think. I just observe and try to do my job with the high standards I've been trained to; but believe me I have seen and see in the cockpit nearly every day I fly very few people Identifying seriously and propely the TO runway; yes, in Asia, training standards are getting very low sometimes...Young FOs and Capts on big aircraft more and more...
On the other hand, that's true, we don't know all what happened that day in AUH.

Whilst I fully agree that the runway should be properly identified, can you please clarify three points for me?

(1) A low visibility takeoff may not always be made from a runway with a radiating CAT II/III localizer - so what would be your procedure in this case?

(2) Exactly how do you identify the runway properly? The RAAS may tell you that you are on the correct runway but you may still be on the edge lights... Also, you may not see the runway ID numbers as you have lined up further down the tarmac.

(3) How does being a young pilot on a big aeroplane equate to lower standards? Surely you mean a less-experienced pilot on a big plane?

*Any tips for a young, self-confessed less-than-perfect skipper would be much appreciated, thanks :ok:

:suspect:

[FBW390]

-1 and 2 :CL rwy markings ; CL rwy lighting, different spacing that edge ones (see before), rwy identification number, rwy QFU (alignment) (wouldn’t have helped in AUH case), LOC centered, if there is; taxiway CL leading you to the center of the rwy…
Of course you might not have everything that day BUT if you have NONE of these it’s really not your day…

3-Yes, you’re right, I meant a less experienced pilot or Capt on a big plane; some countries have very high training standards, and some very fast developing countries don’t;

Guys, your tips, experience and comments are welcome as well.

[RTO]

Hmm... Blue edge green centreline ... not on the actual runway though!
Aeroflot begs to differ :rolleyes:

There is there is a limit to the stupidity the Airbus systems can save you from.

[bigjames]

of course i was not there and i am in no way being judgemental, but i have always been taught to verbalize with the other person i am flying with. ie, turning on to runway, runway clear, lined up, rolling etc... 99.9% of the time most of that is just noise and a waste of time but it just keeps every one sharp...i expect the other person to look, think and react if he/she thinks i am missing something...

[Jetjock330]

FBW390,
Another exemple where the TO runway was not properly identified! Is it too difficult to press the LS push-button to check you're well on the LOC? Pushing the LS is not the procedure or the SOP and neither is taking out runway lights either. The point is, some runways in the network of airlines have an off-set LOC of 3 degrees like JFK rwy22R, (LOC 222 and rwy 225), and so the LS button is not a good idea to try and follow when it is offset behind you, although all the lights are good for low viz.

Low viz procedures are meant to balance out, as much as possible for all departures, as there is a lot to be remembered and followed and the idea is to keep it simple as possible given the conditions.

[gerago]

The point is, some runways in the network of airlines have an off-set LOC of 3 degrees like JFK rwy22R, (LOC 222 and rwy 225), and so the LS button is not a good idea to try and follow when it is offset behind you, although all the lights are good for low viz.



Errrr...runways with offset localizers will not be designated for LVP operations. Also, the lightings need to better or at least equal of Cat I standards.:=

[Jetjock330]

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz285/Jetjock330/KJFK.png

[Jetjock330]

Errrr...runways with offset localizers will not be designated for LVP operations. Also, the lightings need to better or at least equal of Cat I standards.:=

Gerago,
We are talking about departure low viz for rwy 22R, not landing. If the CL and HIRL is working, it is good for 5. It has nothing to do with an off set LOC, yet the LS button would be affected by an offset and therefore is irrelevant to push and check LS on departure. Not many guys would ever check the ILS course and compare to runway track. We all look at taxi charts, minimums, and SIDS, generally and read about any other relevant airport procedures and follow the SOP with taxi procedures, in general.
LVP can be in force, and the said runway can handle low viz take-off, but not landing of course, so don't push the LS button on line up.

[suninmyeyes]

I hear from someone who was there that while the Etihad was waiting for a tug after his rejected takeoff he told tower that there were no lead in lights from the holding point which caused his problem with lining up.

In this day and age it does seem ridiculous that we taxi by looking out of the window for lights and marker boards and by looking inside at Aerad or Jeppesen plates.

It may not have helped in this case but if every plane had a Tomtom in the flight deck with airfield layouts in it life would be simpler and there would be fewer taxiing errors.

[stormyweathers]

2 years ago, in low vis for t/o, in auh, while taxying lights would suddenly all turn off...then come back on again.. then everything back off. It seems they had so many problems with controlling the lights... You mean its been over 2 years and they're still having problems??? wow.