Flying into Bournemouth

[PompeyPaul]

Was thinking of flying from Fairoaks to Bournemouth next Wednesday, weather permitting. It looks relatively straight forward apart from being squeezed between the Middle Wallop MATZ & Solent CTA.

I'm thinking of routing to Guildford, BR tracking on Farnborough to overhead Popham then routing to Fordingbridge before calling Bournemouth and asking for zone penetration etc.

What are my chances of getting zone penetration at Middle Wallop? Does it ever get turned down? Without the zone penetration it looks like flying all of the way over to Frome and then down due to the danger areas.

[S-Works]

I have never been refused a transit. If they are open they are usually very helpful. At worst they may dog leg you a little.

[rich_g85]

Paul, Presumably you've investigated the situation with handling at Bournemouth? The flying club, the last time I asked, are not allowed to handle visiting aircraft.

[soaringhigh650]

The flying club, the last time I asked, are not allowed to handle visiting aircraft.

That would be illegal trade practice.

You have the right to choose what FBO you want.

[LAI]

As bose said, I've never had a problem getting a MATZ pen from them. Your proposed route looks good and you'll find the river a great feature which will take you straight onto right base (the most likely join they'll give you if they're on 26).

Not sure on the handling situation as I have only come in to Bournemouth "as a visitor" once, but I managed to avoid most of the expensive handling etc as I was visiting one of the based companies there and paid my landing fee through them. Might be worth a try if that's what you're doing (or you know someone who works there :ok:)

[Fuji Abound]

Why dont you go direct - it is very unlikely you will be refused a Southampton / Solent transit.

I would ask for a zone entry at Hanky - you might find they vector you around a little so be prepared for that. If they refuse you the transit skirt around the zone down to Stoney Cross. Alternatively you could keep east of the zone and along the coast which is very scenic. (Of course I appreciate you might want to go some other way for the scenery or experience which is fair enough).

No problem at all with the Flying club "handling" you at Bournemouth - they are a good bunch and parking alongside all the slowly rotting military hardware is of interest. Mind you, if you want to get anyware (like the main terminal or just off the airport) its a real trek!

As you know its not cheap.

[VMC-on-top]

That would be illegal trade practice.

You have the right to choose what FBO you want

How do so many regional airports get away with their chosen agent for compulsory handling?

[soaringhigh650]

Because nobody had the balls to ask for a review on anti-competitive behavior?

Not all FBOs are suitable for all aircraft, but if your FBO is willing to offer you the basics such as parking and re-fuelling, you should then be able to choose it without airport intervention.

[Fuji Abound]

I suspect the problem is that at some of the "largest" airports there are no longer any clubs, or if there is a club, there is only one. With one club you use the club, without any, well its the FBO handling. I dare say there are some places with a club but where the airport authority "prevents" the club acting as handling agent - Leeds Bradford possibly comes to mind, and maybe Southampton (I think the club at Southampton is long gone, but there again I could be wrong). Certainly at Leeds Bradford you get firmly steered to the FBO handlers (and very nice they are) whereas in fact there is a perfectly good looking flying club almost next door who I guess dont charge their members anything like the FBO for parking and landing.

Is it anti competitive - presumably it is within the remitt of a privately owned airport to decide who is authorised to "handle" private flights and if they chose not to give that authority to a private club so far as non based aircraft are concerned have they acted beyond there rights? After all I am guessing the airport authorities owns the tarmac on which the aircraft are parked and grants the lease to any FBOs or clubs?

That said I like the approach Southampton takes - they have set aside some spaces for GA on the apron run and operated by the airport - if the spaces are free you dont need to use the handling agents - it is still not cheap mind you. It is a shame a few more of the very "largest" airports havent followed their lead.

[thing]

Something I've often wondered about as a new boy, I've often seen threads like this warning about the high cost of landing/having to use handling agents at certain airports. If you have to go there for business or to visit someone fair enough but if it's just for somewhere to fly to and have a talk to the locals, take a few pics have lunch and fly back why would anyone bother landing somewhere like Southampton or Leeds/Bradford?

[JW411]

It's not that long ago that someone posted on pprune about his experience of taking a PA-28 into Gatwick just because he had always wanted to. He did not get much change out of £900.

Just imagine how many bacon butties you could get for that.

Whatever floats your boat!

[25 DME FIX]

An alternative route, and far more scenic for a few extra miles

Plan via CALSHOT VRP (big 600 FT chimney at the south end of Southampton Water) going east of Southampton CTR, call Solent around New Alresford (east of Winchester), you can always ask for something more direct, but expect entry into Bournemouth via Stoney Cross or Hengistbury Head VRPs, most unlikely Bournemouth will let Solent offer you a direct approach, but its worth a try if you would prefer.

Despite the occasional bad press that they get, Solent are OK, if there is no traffic in the way, let will let you go direct. If you at any time feel that you were unfairly treated phone them (02380 627189) your complaint will be noted and investigated.

Bournemouth, well that may be a different story..........

[tmmorris]

I have to say the only time I've been in to Bournemouth, for Proj Propeller, I was handled by Bournemouth Handling and they were great. But, I didn't have to pay for it as they donated the free handling in aid of the charity. I'm not sure I'd have been that happy to pay.

Interesting question as to the legality; I suspect that it needs challenging in court if there is no choice of handler.

Tim

[mrmum]

Multiflight pretty much have the southside at LBA stitched up, they do all the handling, hangarage, fuelling, maintenance and flying training. They have spent a LOT of money over recent years, so want to recoup I guess and yes the handling is good (you do actually get a little something for the fee), but not really needed for light GA on a quick coffee stop. Although you can get a landing fee discount for training flights, or a handling discount if you're in for maintenance etc.
The flying club is just a short walk and has a really nice cafe, does the best burgers I've had anywhere outside the USA, IIRC it's called the spunkey monkey, or something like that.
Last time I was there, I did hear that they were planning to start charging for car parking as well.

[MrAverage]

PompeyPaul

Be sure to check your insurance - Bournemouth require £10million and most light aircraft policies are way lower than this.

[neilgeddes]

Thanks for your helpful comments about Multiflight. I may be flying into Leeds for the first time in a couple of weeks.

[S-Works]

's not that long ago that someone posted on PPRuNe about his experience of taking a PA-28 into Gatwick just because he had always wanted to. He did not get much change out of £900.

Hell, Fuji took a 'single' into Gatwick as well. They even stopped all the other traffic for him..... :p

[Genghis the Engineer]

It's usually possible to get handled by a flying club at larger airports - I've certainly been handled by BCFT at Bournemouth, on the other hand it was BCFT that I was visiting.

But yes, a few airports manage to be extremely obstructive to private traffic. Edinburgh is for example, completely unuseable - leaving a visitor who wants to fly into the city at night or when expecting to require an IAP, taking the train from either Prestwick or Dundee.

I can't see however why legally these are restrictive practices - in the UK at-least. Virtually all British airports/airfields are in the private sector, so surely the company or personal owning and operating the airport has every right to decide who they have as tenants or subcontractors.

A nuisance, yes. Morally dubious, yes. Shooting themselves in the foot, quite possibly. But illegal, I don't think so.

G

[Fuji Abound]

Hell, Fuji took a 'single' into Gatwick as well. They even stopped all the other traffic for him..... http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/tongue.gif

As it happened only one other aircraft, who managed only a single hold, but your version sounds a lot more exciting. The nice people at Gatwick didnt charge a penny, given they realised it was an emergency. Considering the acres of space and how quiet it is at certain times of the day it is a shame they cant find a way of encouraging more traffic. There GA portacabin is quite cosy even if not a patch on the facilities at Oxford or Leeds Bradford.

[flybymike]

Just to clarify, there is no separate "flying club" at Leeds Bradford which could provide handling separately from Multiflight. All of the south side GA services are provided exclusively by Multiflight.

In the good old days we had the Yorkshire Aeroplane club, Northair, Knight air, Yorkshire Light Aircraft and a few others on the South side. However Multiflight is well funded and acquired all forms of competition many years ago. There are a few scandalous tales to be told of these times but this is not the place for them.

PS The Cafe is the Square Monkey. I don't think I would care to eat at anywhere called the Spunkey Monkey. ( The cafe is not actually directly run by Multiflight!) Food and service are first class.

PPS I have been based at Leeds for 29 years. Absolutely all of the services provided by Multiflight are first rate but (necessarily) not cheap.

[Fuji Abound]

FBM

I always park on the main MF apron, (hangars in front as you face, there offices to the right). On the other side of the access road there is an area with a reasonable number of light aircraft - are they part of a "club" or all "handled" under some sort of arrangement with MF. Always wondered?

[flybymike]

Not sure exactly where you are talking about there.
Inbound visitors are usually directed to the East Apron in front of the large hangars where they do the Jet2 737/Heavy maintenance stuff. You then exit into car park and handling/landing fees paid in the nearby "reception" office.
There is also a "Central" Apron used by the central engineering hangar for light aircraft and helicopter maintenance and occasionally also by the Air Ambulance.
Private and "club" ( ie Multiflight training) aircraft are on the West Apron outside the West hangar and this is usually the Apron which has the most light aircraft on it.

[Stretchwell]

Back to the thread........

I took a PA28 into Bournemouth a few years ago. Compulsory handling so used Bournemouth Handling. They were good and efficient but very expensive !! I seem to remember the fees were pretty much £60 for a landing and nightstop - maybe 4 years ago.

ATC fine but had to orbit on base for ages whilst Ryanair etc took priority. Need to know the VRPs for zone entry - Pooleys has it all.

Good luck !!

[Fuji Abound]

FBM

Yes, we are at the same place. Some beautiful cars in the "showroom" outside and a wonderful mechanical contraption in MF reception.

I didnt realise the aircraft were their training fleet, I assumed it was a club. Interesting.

How do based at aircraft operate?

(Sorry for the slight thread drift)

[mrmum]

This is the life and soul of forums (or fora?? before the speling/ gramerr/ punkchuation police arrive) isn't it?
There wouldn't be much to read on PPRuNe if we rigidly stuck to topic all the time.
Flybymike
There are a few scandalous tales to be told of these times but this is not the place for them.
Oh please do share, surely this is the ideal place for that kind of thing.

Have noticed that the last couple of times I've been in for maintenance, I've not been allowed to taxi onto central, but been parked on East, then the guys have moved it round with a tug. Apparently, there's a new Airside Safety Manager or something, who's decided it's suddenly become inherently dangerous for professional pilots to taxi an aircraft onto an apron with an MD Explorer air ambulance parked on it.

PS I did google the cafe name after I posted, but decided to leave it for amusement value.;)

[flybymike]

Oh please do share, surely this is the ideal place for that kind of thing.


Alas t'internet is not entirely anonymous, and too many people know who I am..;)
Apparently, there's a new Airside Safety Manager or something, who's decided it's suddenly become inherently dangerous for professional pilots to taxi an aircraft onto an apron with an MD Explorer air ambulance parked on it.
Been a couple of recent (fairly innocous) incidents with helicopters which have put the wind up everyone lately. Typical of Leeds reaction and a reflection of modern elfin safety culture:rolleyes: They have also been installing new lights on taxiway Lima which may have been relevant.

Some beautiful cars in the "showroom" outside and a wonderful mechanical contraption in MF reception.
East Apron is where all the Multiflight 737 charters and Bizjets go from (Approx £10k per hour for the 73 I think, just in case you fancy a bimble sometime...) The car park makes a great showroom for Bentleys, Rollers etc, although I sometimes wonder how many of them belong to "The Management";)
Not familiar with said mechanical device (?) but I dont get up that end of the airfield very often.
I didnt realise the aircraft were their training fleet, I assumed it was a club. Interesting.
How do based at aircraft operate?
Multiflight trainers are in Blue and white fleet livery, mainly Robins and B76 Duchesses but also PA28 and C172 and R22/44.
Probably about 15 SEP/MEP privately owned aircraft in the West hangar and maybe one or two helis. Multiflight in return for a (huge) hangarage fee provide private owners with top class handling, manoevering, refuelling etc all arranged in advance by telephone with the aircraft ready when you arrive. If you fancy a share in our C206 let me know!

[mrmum]

Not familiar with said mechanical device (?) but I dont get up that end of the airfield very often.
fbm
Fuji's right, there's a brilliant Heath-Robinson contraption just on the right as you go in the handling office. They've had it a while, I can remember it being in the old reception, right at the bottom of the car park, at the infoserve end of the building.

[flybymike]

Ah, must look out for it next time I'm up there...

[Fuji Abound]

It is well worth a look, i was told only two were made, the other still owned by the maker. It is reminiscent of the workings of a helicopter, a thousand parts naturally wanting to part company but being forced to stay together. :)

[lotusexige]

Could some let us into the secret of what this contraption is? I am becoming overcome with curiosity.

[JOE-FBS]

I have a potential excuse for flying into Bournemouth later this month for a work meeting so have done some proper research. Looking at the airport website, the GA page was not easy to find so here is a link:

http://www.bournemouthairport.com/bohwe ... alaviation (http://www.bournemouthairport.com/bohweb.nsf/Content/generalaviation)

The only agent allowed is Bournemouth Handling

info at flydorset dot com

For a 152, landing, all-day parking, handling (including coffee and a lift round the airfield to my meeting) they have just quoted me, as near as makes no difference, fifty pounds. About thirteen pounds less if parking for less than four hours.

I didn't get the exact figure but for a Warrior, it would be about another twenty pounds.

[betterfromabove]

Have also just looked into flying into Hurn and....I know this subject has been done to death.....but these sort of fees are just disgusting:

£40 to land and then £15 to park overnight.

This for a Jodel. Give me a break. It's not like they're short of space.

What "handling" do I need exactly? I get my weather, NOTAM's, coffee elsewhere and I can put the cover on the plane myself thanks very much. :ugh:

So, looks like Bowerwaine or Compton instead.

Spoke to Flying Club and they are indeed no longer handling visitors. A real shame. Great, recently upgraded clubhouse with stonking restaurant and one of the best runway views around!

Any ideas if BCFT could "handle" you if you were to pop over for a random "chat" about a CPL course??

[4_blues]

professional pilots to taxi an aircraft
Most GA Pilots are not actually 'professional' Pilots :ok:

[mrmum]

Indeed, probably a fair comment in general, however I was moaning about inconvenience to myself in particular and I do posses a professional pilot's licence and get paid when I fly to Multiflight. So, other than my attitude, standards and abilities, I think I meet the definition of professional.

It was meant to be an example of the sh**e we have to endure, which is imposed upon us by the jobsworth wa***rs, (who've almost certainly got bu**er all experience of GA operations) who are allowed to run airports in this country.