UAV Integration Opinions

[knighttimeninja]

I'm currently doing a project looking into the integration of UAS (Unmanned Aircraft Systems) into controlled airspace, specifically developing a simulator to look into integration into ATC for ground movement and was wondering what everyone's opinions are on how ATC should communicate with UAVs. There is 3 main possibilities I'm looking at but I am open to suggestions.

First is keep the current system and make UASs use radios like everyone else.

Second is keep the conventional aircraft to ATC communication the same and have UASs use a digitized system (ie typed commands) but this requires ATCOs to use a combination of radio and textual systems to control aircraft which sounds like it could cause problems.

Or finally digitize the whole ATC system and remove radios altogether which may be the way forward for conventional aircraft anyway but I expect will meet heavy resistance.

So there are the 3 options I have came up with if you can let me know what you all think and as I said if you can think of any better solutions I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

[ZOOKER]

The first question then is why are you doing this project? Secondly,who is, (to use modern management phraseology), the 'sponsor' of the project?

[eglnyt]

If you truly want to integrate UAVs with conventional manned aircraft then they have to interact with the controller in exactly the same way however that may be.

[ZOOKER]

Interesting subject this.
I do regular presentations on ATC topics to our local aviation society, and at the most recent one this very question was asked by a member of the audience.

[divingduck]

Having worked in Baghdad and Iraqi airspace for the past 14 months...there have been probably more UAVs than manned a/c....their radios work, they behave just like normal a/c, why would you even want to change the way things are done?

[BlueSkye]

Hey DD, long time no read.
The US Mil park their UAVs at FL185 at DESDI at midnight without a heads up. And they refuse to move. Happy times!!

[Vercingetorix]

BlueSkye

FL185 at DESDI at midnight, interesting to say the least! How can they fly "Due Regard" when they can't see out the window or does the ground operator in "xxx xxxxx" have access to full 360° airborne radar with time to take avoiding action as required?

Diving, good luck me ole china:ok:

[MrSandman]

Add to that the Tankers spinning around with 'noone' being tanked to.....

Oh and the answer to the question, Radios.

[orgASMic]

Or finally digitize the whole ATC system and remove radios altogether which may be the way forward for conventional aircraft anyway but I expect will meet heavy resistance.


To the OP regarding terminology - Getting picky now, but by 'radio' we are talking about 'two-way voice comms on the relevant control frequencies transmitted via the flying machine by radio', because text or data will also travel by radio. You cannot get away from radio in this context. The only thing that changes is the format of the communication ie voice or data.

As for an all-data ATC environment? No one has time to read lines of text from all the participants. Much more situational awareness (SA) is gained through voice than just from the words - tone, pitch, emphasis, sarcasm, panic, etc.

As has been said in previous posts, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Put a radio on the UAS that relays the calls made by the pilot/operator and the controller. That way, everyone else operating in the space knows what is going on, which goes a long way to improving the SA of pilots of manned flying machines and their confidence in the behaviour of UASs.

[BlueSkye]

Verci, I can not answer intelligently on the "due regard" part for UAVs. Your guess is as good as mine. The issue of flying due regard/tactical with your transponder on is a discussion best saved for another thread.
That being said, when you call the UAV "it" responds. Obviously has a relay to the operator (a 14 year old PS3 wizzkid in Maine?) and even a telephone number so you can call him for a chat.

[ForGreaterSafety]

I have just been looking over small UAV segragation (rather than separation) for my unit also. I found this to be helpful.

http://www.eurocontrol.int/mil/gallery/content/public/milgallery/documents/UAV%20specifications/EUROCONTROL%20Specifications%20for%20Mil%20UAVs%20as%20OAT%2 0Outside%20Segregated%20Airspace%20%28pdf%29.pdf

Cheers
FGS

[knighttimeninja]

to answer ur questions it is a 4rth year university project so no sponsor. and yes i do mean data as apposed to voice. I did expect everyone to say the use voice for both the only reason I ask was that there can be issues in the rare event that a UAV loses connection with it operator in a voice system the UAV would be potentially rogue where as in a data style communication it would be possible to have smart UAVs able to follow the command of ATC until reconnected or the ATC has safely directed it potentially even making it land.

[goldeneaglepilot]

Interesting concept - a UAV that could be controlled by ATC. Why not just develop it one step further and allow the Taliban, full acquire seek and deploy command...

The biggest issue is avoidance of other aircraft, a lot of UAV's operate in an autonomous mode with data updates / interaction at mission critical points rather than continuous data exchange via a duplex comms link

[knighttimeninja]

yeh it would need to be pretty secure and im focusing on airports so it would be very critical and could avoid disaster if the airport ATC could command the UAV since as u say once any aircraft is in flight the pilots are required all the time

[goldeneaglepilot]

I'm sorry but I doubt that there will ever be a system where by ATC could have direct control. It's too open to interception or control via the wrong party. Worse would be a scenario where the UAV is deliberatly flown into the target through third party interception of control.

How do ATC handle a scenario where the pilots of a manned aircraft are incapacitated? They don't have any way of gaining control.

Look at Helios Airways Flight 522 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522)

[sambatc]

for UAVs to be integrated into civilian airspace, there will have to be near-transparency for the ATCOs. So a UAV must behave and interact with ATC in the same manner as manned aircraft. Any suggestions to the contrary have been met with a lot of resistance by ANSPs