When to ask for zone transit

[Lagentium]

Good evening, I was just wondering when is the best time to ask for a zone transit? On initial call or when asked to pass message? Especially when there will be a small amount of time between the initial call and entering the controlled airspace?

Thanks in advance, Jim :ok:

[ShyTorque]

I give callsign, and request the type of service required and zone transit in the initial call to the unit.

Now, standby for a whole load of different and sometimes angry opinions on the subject.

[BackPacker]

AFAIK, officially your initial call should only contain the addressing agency and the callsign. "Heathrow Tower, G-ABCD". This is particularly true if you have a long message or request to pass.

However what I've heard from various ATC people is that they appreciate that you prepare them for what's coming. "Heathrow Tower, G-ABCD for zone transit". They can then decide to give you attention straight away, or ask you to standby for a short while.

And if your request or message is really short, you can simply put the request or message in the initial call. "Heathrow Tower, G-ABCD ready for departure". (This typically assumes that the tower already knows about you because you've been talking to delivery/ground/startup/whatever previously.)

[CraigJL]

As I understand it, from CAP 413, you should request the zone transit with the initial call:

Normally, the initial call to an ATS unit should only include the minimum information
needed to establish:
a) the service that an enroute flight requires; or
b) the clearance/information that a joining or departing flight requires.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Many subtle variations, but this works - best made a few minutes before likely to try and enter the airspace.

Initial call on a quiet day: "Controller Callsign, Aircraft Callsign, for basic service and zone transit"

Initial call on a busy day: "Controller Callsign, Aircraft Callsign, good afternoon".

Once asked to pass your message

"Aircraft Callsign, Type, Route, position, altitude, altimeter setting, squawking, request"

Or words to that general effect.

G

[ShyTorque]

A historic day! Four answers and no-one's violently disagreed yet... :ok:

[Whirlygig]

ShyT, I expect YOU to know better .... It's AN historic day, not A historic day.

Love you :}

Cheers

Whirls

[Genghis the Engineer]

VFR RT does vary a lot between countries, and to some extent how busy it is.

G

[Fuji Abound]

Broadly i agree, keep it short, perhaps unless the frequency is clearly not busy.

However if its really busy i simply go with xxxxx for transit, x to y. I have told the controller what i want and hopefully he will prioritise granting or denying the transit. I have also distinguished myself from traffic calling up that dont say why and some of whom doubtless dont want transits. I have also given the controller an idea of where i am, and where i want to cross.

I never entirely see the point of saying the service you would like. If its class d it only really matters to the controller whether you are ifr or vfr and neither is usually likely to be a deciding factor on granting the transit, so you can sort this out later. If its class a, its going to be svfr - given that you are unlikely to be requesting a pop up ifr transit, and if its just an atz without a class d veil then you will probably have made a full call in the first place.

So for transits of the usual busy class d suspects xxxxx for transit, x to y does the trick for me. I cant recall the last refusal other than stansted and i dont bother asking them any more unless they appear dead!

[ShyTorque]

It's AN historic day, not A historic day.

Well, I think either is acceptable.

Just looked this up. My Pocket Oxford Dictionary tells me the usage of "an" in this unstressed context is almost obsolete.... and that "a" is more usual these days ..:)

Yipeee, I'm a modern zone transitter... :ok:

[englishal]

I normally use:

XYZ Approach, N123 for traffic service and zone transit.

[BackPacker]

for traffic service and zone transit.

I thought the new terms "basic service", "traffic service" and so on, were ATSOCAS services, meaning outside controlled airspace, while a zone transit implies entry into controlled airspace (which has its own, ICAO based, rules on the service that ATC is supposed to provide).

So isn't that at odds with each other?






(Some spice to the debate for ShyTorque...)

[LAI]

Backpacker,

Correct. However.... :E

The service you are requesting is that which will be provided by ATC while you are outside the controlled airspace you wish to transit. ATC usually (always?) make this clear with a call along the lines of "G-CD, Basic Service outside controlled airspace" etc...

[dont overfil]

Up here in Scotlandshire most of the major airports are using electronic flight strips which I believe are rather cumbersome to use.

A flight plan is preferred. Alternatively a phone call before you leave. If neither of these is possible an early request with Scottish Information makes life easier for the ATC folks.

Despite the system the folks at Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen are unfailingly helpful.

D.O.

[ShyTorque]

The service you are requesting is that which will be provided by ATC while you are outside the controlled airspace

Yes, if you don't tell ATC what service is required outside the airspace, before you get to the boundary, guess what the first question is going to be? ;)

p.s. some of us here are doing this quite a few times every working day, so we do get used to it....

[neilgeddes]

"Gatwick Approach, G-ABCD request zone transit" worked very well yesterday and they were most accommodating. Thanks :ok:

[tmmorris]

The one I always forget is that if IFR you can't ask for a basic service (well, you can ask they can't give you one). In gin-clear VMC but IFR as I am inbound for an instrument approach I tend to forget this (as I did at Cambridge last week) and the controller always has to remind me it's Traffic or Deconfliction only.

Tim

[mrmum]

Or procedural, if you're IFR OCAS and the aerodrome is non-radar.

[Red Four]

You can still be IFR and receive a Basic Service. Many units, under a duty of care/common sense requirement, will upgrade your service as it may otherwise lead to other IFR traffic not being 'separated' from you.

[Johnm]

This is about practicalities not protocols. A basic service is as much use as a chocolate kettle in most cases unless there's some specific information you need and can't get from an ATIS or VOLMET.

So if looking for transit of controlled airspace...

"ATSU GABCD request traffic service and zone transit"

You can then do the full life history bit when you get the "pass your message " response

[toptobottom]

I always ask for type of service and zone transit on initial call. The important thing is to ask nice and early, especially if it's busy. Having visited Swanwick and Farnborough control rooms, the most frustrating thing for the controllers is when an aircraft is 2 miles from the boundary before the pilot decides to make the first call...

[chevvron]

If the frequency is busy, try not to make your initial call too long as you'll block other calls if you pass your life history. I've lost count of the number of times I've wanted to pass urgent info to a pilot, only to be blocked by someone telling me all his details on first call.

[cojones]

Broadly i agree, keep it short, perhaps unless the frequency is clearly not busy.

However if its really busy i simply go with xxxxx for transit, x to y. I have told the controller what i want and hopefully he will prioritise granting or denying the transit. I have also distinguished myself from traffic calling up that dont say why and some of whom doubtless dont want transits. I have also given the controller an idea of where i am, and where i want to cross.

I never entirely see the point of saying the service you would like. If its class d it only really matters to the controller whether you are ifr or vfr and neither is usually likely to be a deciding factor on granting the transit, so you can sort this out later. If its class a, its going to be svfr - given that you are unlikely to be requesting a pop up ifr transit, and if its just an atz without a class d veil then you will probably have made a full call in the first place.

So for transits of the usual busy class d suspects xxxxx for transit, x to y does the trick for me. I cant recall the last refusal other than stansted and i dont bother asking them any more unless they appear dead!


This might be a stupid question but has anyone ever tried to get or succeeded in getting a transit from say Fairoaks to Elstree. Very naive question after a few hours in the air ! Thanks anyway





[telstarr]

The answer can found in CAP413 Chapter 3 as below. This has been a requirement since 2006. For those ATSU's using electronic flight strips this is of extreme benefit in order to immediately know what is required. When the ATSU replies thay may ask you to pass your message or they may only reply with their callsign which is the invitation to pass your detals.
By not including a request you increase the number of transmissions which can be very irritating in a busy traffic situations.

If you don't include a a type of service you will probably be given one such as Basic or Traffic (ATSOCAS) whilst outside controlled airspace.

Initial Call – VFR Flight

3.28 Normally, the initial call to an ATS unit should only include the minimum
information needed to establish:
1. The service that an enroute flight requires; or
2. The clearance/information that a joining or departing flight requires.

There is a very good aide memoire card from airspace safetyfor the Initial call, Pass your Details and Position Reports.GOOGLE 'R/T - Prepare your transmissions'

[Jim59]

Probably best to ask on the "ATC Issues" forum on PPRUNE.

I believe it varies between units but I have been told that the controllers may use different colour strips/holders for outbound, inbound and transiting aircraft etc. So if your first call gives them a clue they can start entering your detals in the correct place. How it impacts units where it is fully computerised I have no idea - hence my suggeston to ask on the ATC section.

Personally I would include "basic service and zone transit" if passing through, or "inbound to xxx" if landing in the zone. Of course if transiting when one enters the zone it becomes a control service of some sort since basic aplies only outside controlled airspace. But the controller will advise what he is giving.