Would you land on this airstrip?

[Ultra long hauler]

Hi folks,

I was just contemplating some issues……

I learned to fly from this airstrip; and it is still in use actually:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3820316/Airstrip.jpg

Not a flattering picture perhaps; but please bear in mind that:

1) It´s 500 meters long which is plenty for us.
2) It´s nicely elevated which makes for all year round flying; while other (nicer) airfields struggle in the rainy season.
3) While it looks a little bendy; those are mainly the grass shoulders which are perfectly fit for use; in case you swerve a little!
4) We are moving to a beautiful new club soon!

My question is: what is the narrowest place you managed to "park" your plane? Airstrip, dirt road; whatever.

The width of the strip in the pic is officially 8 meters; but please believe me when I say that in reality it´s only 5 meters or so--> including the grass shoulders. And it slopes down from there…

Would you venture it; as a perfect stranger in your flying machine or would you have 2nd thoughts? It took me a while to land properly, to tell you the truth!

The weather is usually benign……just FYI.

Cheers,

###Ultra Long Hauler###

[Crash one]

The voice of my Spanish instructor springs to mind "Kip a centreline, kip a centreline!" In answer, I'd love to try it. How close are the bushes for a low wing bug smasher?

[neilgeddes]

The Redhill taxiway (runway 25) is always fun :ok:

[Pilot DAR]

Yes, I'd land on that runway! The small runways are the best fun.

Mine here at home is 40 feet wide between the lights, and about 80 feet wide between the trees at either end. It's fine for my plane, but it was tight when I brought in the Twin Otter, and more recently the Caravan.

My smallest "runway" operation would be this one. About 500 feet long, but with adequate approaches. Really rough ground in the scrub brush, so you don't want a wheel in there! There is no more rolling surface available, than that visible in the pictures...

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo252/PilotDAR/Aircraft/IMG_3561.jpg

My 8 year old daughter in pink standing at the far end....

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo252/PilotDAR/Aircraft/IMG_3562.jpg

[bingofuel]

Did you have to push it all the way back again to take off?

[Pilot DAR]

Did you have to push it all the way back again to take off?

Yes, that's how you get the rubber band ready for the next flight!

[tinmug]

Not a problem. Try The strip on Lundy island, basicly the side of a cliff. 400m the island is 1/2 mile wide

[Jan Olieslagers]

Did you have to push it all the way back again to take off?

I reckon that's why he brought his offspring.

[Jan Olieslagers]

For the original question: at sea level, my Apollo Fox happily jumps out of 200 metres, so yes I would use it, IF
-) it is not too high
-) you can convince me there's no hidden surprises such as big loose stones, or sudden appearance of hippopotamus or grizzly bear or the like. Bus as you stated the strip is in regular use I suppose all those dangers have been chased off long since.

[mary meagher]

There is no way I would choose to land my glider in either of the above!
Invitation to a ground loop for certain! I've landed in set-aside, maize that was a bit too tall for comfort, rape that had recently been harvested but lots of twigs still sticking up, pasture with 24 yearling entire black bulls, sheep, freshly harrowed sticky clay, a very steep field with flints, a fairground; also the centre strip at Newbury race course. There was a microlite strip that came close to being a tad narrow, and a helicopter landing pad at Silverstone, that was a bit short. And a field that had no access whatsoever to get the glider out without crossing a ditch....and two different airfields where the folks in charge had locked up for the weekend.

Rule is choose your field by 1,000' agl, preferably near a pub.

[NazgulAir]

Narrowest I've landed on was Coonagh just inside the Shannon zone by Limerick, the tarmac was just wide enough for the wheelbase of a PA28.
You had to buzz the cows first, too. I wonder, does the field still exist?

[ninja-lewis]

NazgulAir,

If it's the one home to Limerick Flying Club it still does. Google Maps shows it's slightly narrower than a Piper wingspan. Google Street View even shows the cows!

[KeesM]

My narrowst one was Elz(EDFY), tarmac 6m wide.

[Dave Gittins]

To expand on what neilgeddes said, runway 25 at Redhill is said to be 10 m wide. I landed on it last Saturday and it is by far the thinnest I've ever used. It's also pretty short so the "picture" makes you think you are too high.

[AfricanEagle]

Yes, I would enjoy landing on that runway, with a Piper Cub or other tailwheel plane.

For a period I flew a SuperCub from a 400 grasstrip (now only used by choppers) placed under the approach for Fiumicino rwy 25 in Rome. Always great fun considering that one end of the strip had tall trees at the end. And the local dog was always sleeping in the exact middle half way down.

[pasir]

... not in the same league I realise but the strip at Clacton - in the 80s -
was 'unusual' - plus a good look-out was called for with the public
footpath cutting across the centre of the strip.
Another strip not recommended for beginners was the small field at
Ripe on the Kent Sussex border.



...

[Whirlygig]

Yeah, no probs ... I'd land my helicopter there :ok: Where was the wind again? :}

Cheers

Whirls

[Humaround]

Mary...

"I've landed .... (on) a helicopter landing pad at Silverstone, that was a bit short...."

...you're talking about a glider landing?

:D:D:D

[Dawdler]

There is always the apocryphal(?) story of the light aircaft taking off across the runway at Manston.

[Maoraigh1]

A Cessna 140 was landed across the west end of Glenforsa during a 1990s fly-in. From the sea, uphill, into a strong crosswind. (By a professional helicopter pilot).

[mary meagher]

Humaround, er, yes, in a glider at Silverstone ......

and there was the occasion at North Dene, Great Yarmouth....I was supposed to be returning a pegasus glider (15 meter, nothing fancy, a French improvement on the ASW 19) from Nympsfield to High Wycombe, but it was such a loverly day, I got distracted and as the landscape unrolled beneath my wings, just turned North a bit to avoid sensitive places like Heathrow, Northolt, Luton, Stanstead, and then when getting near the Wash, had to choose between heading up to Scotland or going East until I ran out of land....which of course happened somewhere near Yarmouth. I toyed with the idea of flying round the oil rig out in the water, but chickened out, and flew up and down the beach for a while, observing the traffic situation at North Dene.....there was absolutely none at all, so I just set up a circuit and landed.

Didn't get much of a welcome, red landrover rolled up, five guys jumped out and without a word pushed my glider off the runway - their very first ever helicopter emergency was coming in from the oil platform, with one engine out, so they needed the runway, and here was this silly glider plopped down in the middle....

I apologised and apologised, and was forgiven, and they began to see the funny side.....

But then I heard about Justin Will's landing his glider at North Dene. He'd flown up from Exeter, or thereabouts, and like me had done a downwind dash. Can't remember the name of the well known and no longer with us aerobatic ace who used to fly at RAF Bicester, but he came along to North Dene with the tug. North Dene manager said no way I can permit you to tow a glider out of here, it's not long enough!

Somehow the manager was persuaded that whatever happened he would not be held responsible. The way Justin told it, he was pushed to the farthest fence, and told to hang on no matter what! The glider lifted off before the tow plane, which didn't lift off until ten feet from the end of the runway, and just made it over the earth bank before plopping down again in the driveway of the holiday camp, which was exactly in line with the runway. The combination of towplane and glider then gained flying speed with an astonished audience of campers, who couldn't believe their eyes......

Those were the days.....when we were young and foolish....

[patowalker]

Another strip not recommended for beginners was the small field at
Ripe on the Kent Sussex border.

The small field at Ripe? What do you mean by a small field?

Deanland Airfield - Home (http://www.deanland-airfield.co.uk)

[patowalker]

There is always the apocryphal(?) story of the light aircaft taking off across the runway at Manston.

It would be quite possible, as Manston had a runway 750 feet wide designed for returning bombers that had suffered battle damage.

[Speedbird48]

Nothing short about Ripe/Deanland. Operated out of there for many years without a problem.

Now there were the ones that left on a truck. usually uninvited, and used to many yards of concrete.

The same people would complain when told it was Prior Permission Only??

Speedbird48

[Billredshoes]

Hi

What " landing strip http://an2club.info/images/2007_0728party0006.JPG

[GWYN]

When I was quite a lot younger and braver than I am today I took a TB9 into (and out of!) the strip which used to be at Westbury sub Mendip. As well as being narrow (wingtips through the brambles when doing a 180 at the end) and short, it had a gentle curve as it is actually the disused railway track.

For those looking on Google Earth: 51°14'02.22" N 2°43'31.17" W

Warnervale, NSW, doesn't leave much room for error before departing the hard surface either. At least the strip there isn't edged by scrub and brambles though.

Lat: 33° 14.45' S Long: 151° 25.84' E

[pasir]

Adding to my earlier Deanland post in which I made very clear that what
then followed was not in the same league as that of the threads originator - Those apparantly objecting to the airfields description as 'small' -
may need to contact the fields owner (or one time owner) - also the Classic British Flight Sim Library - also flight safety digest - all of whom have used and published the same word objected to in reference to that location.

Ripe is of course a delightful field for the enjoyance of most pilots and
PPLs. Its many years since I last visited but looking at recent photos
appears to have been greatly improved since the last time I flew in.

...

[bouncibong]

Jeppers guys- some of us poor struggling students have trouble getting an American Spamcan down on 900metres of tarmac!.

Seems that just as soon as I get it all lined up the bloomin runway ups and moves.:{ I am almost convinced that our airfield is actually an aircraft carrier!.

Now they MUST be hard to land on!

[mary meagher]

Piece of cake, landing on aircraft carrier. I say, chaps, just point it into wind, right? But choose one that has a skewed sideways deck, otherwise if you fall of the end, you get keelhauled.....

[Momoe]

I've flown into Westbury-sub-Mendip in an Auster Autocrat, that gentle curve makes for some fast and precise footwork.
Visited the site to check it out but still overflew 3 times before committing as it looked a damn sight shorter and narrower from 500ft!
Also had/has sizeable industrial unit at the Southern end not far from the threshold, I'm guessing the TB9 would have needed a very favourable wind.

[Sam Rutherford]

Once took off on the dispersal at Ubari airport in southern Libya, in about 100m, but the wind was 20G30kts on the nose and we were light. The earlier landing with said wind fully crosswind was considerably more exciting.

Tower's response to my request was nothing more than 'clear take off'. Not sure he fully understood, thinking back... :)

Narrowest was CSH5 Saint Ferdinand in Canada, also on an epic slope.

Fly safe, have fun, Sam.

[Ultra long hauler]

The voice of my Spanish instructor springs to mind "Kip a centreline, kip a centreline!"
Haha, I am being taught in Spanish actually!

In answer, I'd love to try it. How close are the bushes for a low wing bug smasher?
We have a Kappa Sova as a regular visitor; no sweat.



My smallest "runway" operation would be this one. About 500 feet long, but with adequate approaches.
Gee Whiz……that IS tight……..

Did you have to push it all the way back again to take off?

I reckon that's why he brought his offspring.
Touché……...

For the original question: at sea level, my Apollo Fox happily jumps out of 200 metres, so yes I would use it, IF
-) it is not too high
-) you can convince me there's no hidden surprises such as big loose stones, or sudden appearance of hippopotamus or grizzly bear or the like. But as you stated the strip is in regular use I suppose all those dangers have been chased off long since.

Jan, it is at sea level.
There is the old cow next to the airstrip at times; but they can´t hide really; you`ll spot them. I had to do a missed approach only once or twice; hardly ever really. Never been surprised……..
Animals on airstrips are quite usual where we are. When we used to practice touch and go´s at a wider strip in the area; some farmers would release their horses just to get rid of us.

There is always the apocryphal(?) story of the light aircaft taking off across the runway at Manston.

That is a mild thread drift--> haha!
That is "the widest place you ever landed"…….albeit very short!!



Didn't get much of a welcome, red landrover rolled up, five guys jumped out and without a word pushed my glider off the runway - their very first ever helicopter emergency was coming in from the oil platform, with one engine out, so they needed the runway, and here was this silly glider plopped down in the middle....


Nice timing!!

It would be quite possible, as Manston had a runway 750 feet wide designed for returning bombers that had suffered battle damage.

Interesting. Did they save air fames (and lives) with that?


###Ultra Long Hauler###

[patowalker]

By the looks of it, the strip is not bad at all.

Aterrizaje pista 26 Duran - YouTube (http://youtu.be/ZuQGUg4C98k)

[mary meagher]

Aside from all that loose gravel, the bit that would really have me clutching everything are those wires on the threshold! The chap flying in this film obviously knows where he's going, so doesn't need to do a circuit!

[Ultra long hauler]

By the looks of it, the strip is not bad at all.


You found us Pato!!

Aside from all that loose gravel, the bit that would really have me clutching everything are those wires on the threshold! The chap flying in this film obviously knows where he's going, so doesn't need to do a circuit!

That chap would be me actually.
The 26 threshold is a bit of a bitch because of the cables, indeed!
Well spotted; at 0:35 seconds in the video.

The thing is, when it´s windy it is the preferred threshold for obvious reasons; in case of a missed approach you don´t need cables!

I have had one or two missed approaches coming from the other side, if you just decide early; there´s no worries.

Once again, it´s far from ideal…..but as I said:



1) It´s 500 meters long which is plenty for us.
2) It´s nicely elevated which makes for all year round flying; while other (nicer) airfields struggle in the rainy season.
3) While it looks a little bendy; those are mainly the grass shoulders which are perfectly fit for use; in case you swerve a little!
4) We are moving to a beautiful new club soon!


The 1st plane already landed on our new park; without cables anywhere and 16 meters width to play with!

###Ultra Long Hauler###

[LH2]

Not quite in the same league as our Canadian or Equatorial fellows, but here's a pic of my usual mount at my favourite strip.

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/15144021.jpg (http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/15144021.jpg)

Threshold altitude is 8100ft if I'm not mistaken.

[Ultra long hauler]

Not quite in the same league.

Threshold altitude is 8100ft if I'm not mistaken.

Wow, how is that not in the same league??
May I ask what country that is!?

Reminds me of this strip:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3820316/Screenshot%202012-01-23%20om%2013.48.43.jpg

I´ve never flown on it (yet); they literally have to move the wooden fencing from the "runway" (on the far right side of the pic) and scare away the cows if you intend to land there! Talk about the need for communications……

Altitude? Over 9000 feet!!
And the threshold is literally a 300 meter deep cliff!
So you´ll think twice before aborting T.O!!

###Ultra Long Hauler###

[GWYN]

Just to answer Momoe: 26th June 1982 my logbook tells me. At this distance I have no recollection of the wind but I do recall the large shed/warehouse just before the threshold. Strangely I don't recall it as one of my 'hairier' flying moments!

[grafity]

Narrowest I've landed on was Coonagh just inside the Shannon zone by Limerick, the tarmac was just wide enough for the wheelbase of a PA28.
You had to buzz the cows first, too. I wonder, does the field still exist?

Coonagh is still going strong. LFC is probably one of the stronger clubs in Ireland at the moment. I learnt to fly there myself not too long back and it's a really enjoyable field to fly out, good for practicing go arounds. ;)

You'll be glad to know that the cow's are doing well and fattening up nicely for next summers barbeque.

It's not that narrow either as you can see from this video I only needed half the width. :O
Coming into Coonagh - YouTube
Although be aware that if you are used to much wider runways it apparently can appear that Coonagh is a lot longer than it actually is(416m).
Or if you're like me and used to flying out of Coonagh you flare at 50ft on the wider runways. :)

[DavidWoodward]

The Ikarus can land almost anywhere although I'm not sure I'd be capable of landing almost anywhere...

[mikehallam]

Stoke Medway (R. Thames) is closer to home & has massive power line towers running close alongside on the wing tip & it's a banana shape too. Yet it's used for training on microlights.
Chap who landed at my home base with a C172 said he'd been in there.


Now I can't post pictures here off my own files, but who says Ripe/Deanland is tight ? Clear approaches too.
In 2005 the Vickers Vimy transatlantic replica came in a few days after doing the Atlantic flight !

mike hallam,

[Ultra long hauler]

Hi,

a pretty good picture of the runway which kind of started this thread appeared recently, have a look:

Photos: AeroAndina MXP-800 Fantasy Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Aeroclub-Los-Rebeldes/AeroAndina-MXP-800-Fantasy/2124161/&sid=77b220df1302de3f6893e1fd101762e9)

Cheers,

###Ultra Long Hauler###

[mr_rodge]

Looks a damned sight better on that one than on the OP's photo!

[Ultra long hauler]

Looks a damned sight better on that one than on the OP's photo!

Correct!
That is the difference between "before" and "after" the club gardener giving the runway a run for its money with his "machete"; a large farmer´s knife!


###Ultra Long Hauler###

[hum]

Grand Caravan Lands at Coonagh Airfield, Limerick (EICN) - YouTube

:}

[jonkil]

The length/width of runway is only relevant to the plane you're flying and the capability of the aircraft & pilot. The Ikarus C42 with 100 horses will go in and out of 100 metres in nil wind, width unimportant... that all changes with conditions and ability.
Certain pilots who fly out of long wide runways always have trouble on smaller strips, I for one will not allow a person to land on my 480m x 6m strip (I considered it a long strip) if I have any inkling that they are not capable or doing so. Here in Ireland we have multitude of very narrow and short strips that are used regularly by pilots with capable (and sometimes not so capable!) aircraft.
As I say, its all relevant to the individual/aircraft.
____________________________________
www.RuskeyAirfield.com (http://www.RuskeyAirfield.com)

[Ultra long hauler]

Grand Caravan Lands at Coonagh Airfield, Limerick (EICN) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhTnu7q4c4w)

:}

I´m always amazed how STOL those Grand Caravans are, considering their size!
Not too long ago I was at a municipal runway in a small beach town where one of these "monsters" came in.........very large relative to the surroundings!

###Ultra Long Hauler###

[irish seaplane]

That jungle road strip doesnt look too bad from that angle... You'd fire a 182 etc in there just wing clearance wouldn't suit a low wing. The microlight guys can fly in an out of amazing small spaces. There are a few biggies that make the difference, inertia (double the weight 4 times the intertia) and ground pressure of the heavier weight. Where a microlight can approach at 40mph, and have 0.7 of a ton to stop then that's no a huge amount of inertia. The tires wont cut in and leave you stuck there in most cases.

Consider a C401 etc going into that same grass field at 90mph having to stop 3.4 ton on smallish tires and no reverse thrust. There are guy's able to throw those big planes into short, narrow grass strips with full loads. The skill factor for that is way higher than you'd ever realise until you weigh it up. Was looking at the strip in the middle of Haydock with the tree's, narrow markers each side and TV screen's to avoid - it surely must be tricky to land light twins in there.

The STOL thing is really a function of touchdown speed/inertia/ability to stop coupled ability to control all those factors precisely. If you wanted to get red hot at it, well it just takes lots of practice. When it all goes wrong then... pull the mixture and make a funny face! ;)

[Ultra long hauler]

Certain pilots who fly out of long wide runways always have trouble on smaller strips, I for one will not allow a person to land on my 480m x 6m strip (I considered it a long strip)


Yep! I for one am glad I learned from an 8 meter wide unpaved strip, with high voltage cables partly blocking 1 side.
It teaches you to be accurate, and the decision to "commit" to a landing is something you learn to not take too lightheartedly, with only very limited ways of escape on the other end.

Not to say that my landings are brilliant on bigger strips, far from! (I wish).
But it does give me confidence to have such a wide stretch of asphalt to play with, right there in front of me!

###Ultra Long Hauler###

[Sam Rutherford]

For LH2, which strip is that on your photo?

[spittingimage]

Nice photos preceding, chaps. Tightest I can ever remember was at Out Skerries in Shetland Islands at, officially IIRC, 381m. Took an Archer in many years ago. It was a bit tight, not least because it is far from flat and the takeoff run available depended on how large a boulder you were prepared to trample at the easternmost shore end ! :ooh: Dunno if it has been tarmaced yet ... ?

[AdamFrisch]

Didn't even need a strip, just a dirt road in the middle of nowhere with the Commander a few years back. Sorry to necropost.

:ok:

DYyvamJT334

[mary meagher]

Don't apologise, Adam. The video of the Grand Caravan landing on that ministrip at Coonagh is worth watching again! Skill to respect!

And I didn't realise any aircraft could go backwards...! remarkable.

[ChickenHouse]

I guess we all agree that it depends on the A/C ... and of course, the pilot (won't distinguish between guts and madness for this here). For an old rivet tin can of 172 my personal "comfort zone" is all above 1.000ft long and 30ft wide, which is the size of a friends gras airstrip, where we frequently barbecue. Shortest strip I departed was a tit over 600ft long, but you have to have perfect conditions for such. 500m is plenty of space for most GA machines.

[Sam Rutherford]

Narrowest landing, St.Ferdinand in Quebec - track is 6m wide (but grass either side much wider).

Shortest takeoff was from the apron in Ubari, Libya. About 50m with a Maule (it was blowing a Hooley 90 degrees crosswind to the runway). I don't think the controller understood my request, and just said 'clear take off'!

Cheers, Sam.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Yes, my only question is, "how loose is the gravel?"

[N-Jacko]

Sam, that looks like LF7333 Tignes - Le Palet to me. If so, the departure is not quite as constrained as it looks in that photo. There's lower ground to the left, after clearing a few ski lift wires.