microlight rating for PPL(A)

[scottymilne]

Hi all, new member, long time browser here.

I have a UK PPL(A) issued in 1998 and a long since (6yrs +) expired SE Piston rating and was wondering if I can add a microlight rating to this license without re-validating my SEP rating? I have no microlight experience logged.

If I can, what do I need to do to get the microlight rating in terms of hours/exams/tests?

I have looked at LASORS, spoke to my local flying club and my microlight instructor but I must admit I'm struggling to get a definitive answer. I have been away from flying for a few years so please excuse my ignorance.

Thanks
Scott

[4_blues]

Hi,

As you say you have a UK PPL you fortunately don't need to worry about it expiring every 5 years unlike JAR. Also, as the CAA PPL is an ICAO licence you can fly fixed wing up to 5700kg so AFAIK there is no need to add a (M) rating to fly Microlights.

However, as this is a privilege of your SEP rating which has since expired you will need to renew it. How this is done under your CAA PPL I don't know. BUT Lasors would suggest to renew a rating which has expired by 5 years or more you will need to take a skills test with an FI(E), although no mandatory training is required pre skills test. So basically, my understanding of the options are;

1) Get down to your local club and get yourself back up to scratch in Group A to a standard which will enable you to pass a skills test thus renewing your SEP(L) and fly microlights under the privileges contained therein.

2) Add a microlight class rating to your CAA PPL. Details can be found on the British Microlight Aircraft Association Website; British Microlight Aircraft Association,Licenced flying (http://www.bmaa.org/pwpcontrol.php?pwpID=2603)

I hope the above is correct, but others may be able to shed more light.

Oh, have you given consideration to your Medical and also perhaps FRTOL...

Good Luck!

4B

[S-Works]

You can't add a microlight rating to your licence. Your SEP rating has embedded microlight privileges with differences training. If you want microlight only then you will need a NPPL.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Phone the BMAA : contact details at British Microlight Aircraft Association,Home (http://www.bmaa.org) , they may be able to show you a way to do this.

G

[BackPacker]

Isn't it simply possible to renew the SEP(A) rating in a Microlight? Do you really have to fly a "Group A" aircraft so to be eventually enabled to fly Microlights?

[4_blues]

Is it not possible to get an NPPL issued if one already holds a fixed wing ICAO licence such as CAA PPL? I understand given the lack of a SEP rating on the PPL the NPPL would not automatically carry a SSEA rating, but it may be a case of undertaking some training in a microlight for the purposes of SSEA rather than having to complete the entire NPPL course? In which case it may be a number crunching exercise. How much training would be required for SEP in Group A thus enabling the holder to fly both v training in a microlight for SSEA and only flying microlights on the NPPL....

[S-Works]

Backpacker. Er! No.... It's an SEP rating.......

I already said how to do this. Either renew thr SEP or get an NPPL with Microlight rating. It's not rocket science!!

You apply for an NPPL with SSEA. Do ML differences training with a ML Instructor, FI or CRI. You do a skill test to add the new class and job done.

[BEagle]

scottymilne, actually it most certainly is possible to include a Microlight Class Rating in a non-NPPL under the provisions of ORS4 No.865, (see AIC W080/2010 dated 7 Oct 2010):

2 Procedure for obtaining an SSEA, SLMG or microlight aeroplane class rating:

2.1 The holder of a UK National (non-NPPL(A)) or UK-issued JAR-FCL aeroplane licence, who has an NPPL(A) Medical Declaration, may obtain SSEA, SLMG or microlight aeroplane class ratings by the following routes:

a. A pilot with an SEP class rating that has not expired (and is included in a licence that has not expired) may exercise the privileges of an SSEA, SLMG or microlight class rating for the remaining validity of the SEP rating (or licence if the licence expires before the SEP rating) subject to having completed differences training as appropriate. When the SEP rating expires the licence holder may apply for an SSEA, SLMG or microlight class rating to be added to their licence, providing that the licence has not expired.

The holder of an SEP rating may apply for an SSEA, SLMG or microlight class rating before the current SEP rating expires, in which case the initial period of validity of the ratings will be equal to the remaining validity of the existing SEP.

b. Where the SEP class rating has expired by not more than 5 years, the licence holder may qualify to have an SSEA, SLMG or microlight class rating added to their (non-expired) licence by completing any training required and passing the NPPL(A) General Skill Test (GST) in an SSEA, SLMG or microlight aeroplane as applicable.

c. Where the SEP class rating has expired by more than 5 years, the licence holder shall pass the NPPL(A) GST and associated oral theoretical knowledge examination for the desired rating before it may be added to their (non-expired) licence. Ground and flight training to prepare for the GST may be undertaken with an appropriately qualified Flight Instructor or Class Rating Instructor for single pilot aeroplanes and/or in the case of SLMGs and microlight aeroplanes, an appropriately qualified SLMG or microlight aeroplane Flying Instructor or microlight aeroplane Assistant Flying Instructor.
You will not need to hold a JAA Class 2 Medical Certificate as a Medical Declaration will suffice.

Despite forthcoming €urocracy, the CAA has indicated that you will be able to continue to fly Microlight Class aeroplanes on your UK PPL(A) with Microlight Class Rating.

Were you to go down the route of renewing your SEP Class Rating, you would also need a JAA Class 2 Medical Certificate and to complete relevant Microlight conversion training. Even then, hours flown in a Microlight would not count towards the next revalidation of your SEP Class Rating.

Although you could alternatively obtain an NPPL, in your specific case, because you already hold a non-expiring, lifetime pilot licence, the better option appears to me to be for you to add a Microlight Class Rating to your existing UK PPL(A). Whatever you decide, do give the ever-helpful BMAA a ring and they will explain things further.

[4_blues]

:D And there you have it folks! An interesting topic though!!

4B

[S-Works]

Well bugger me. I stand corrected.

[BEagle]

Well bugger me.

Not whilst there are still dogs on the street, old chap!

[S-Works]

Not whilst there are still dogs on the street, old chap!

You are no oil painting yourself nick!!

[scottymilne]

Thanks for the replies guys, great advice!

I went to talk to my flying instructor that I had when doing my PPL and he suggested that as I want to continue flying SEP(L) and microlight in the future I might be best renewing my SEP rating in my PPL and then get difference training to allow me to fly microlights.

Would it be a good idea to renew the SEP rating prior to AESA regulations coming in to force? i.e. would/could it cause me problems in the future if EASA comes in to force when I don't have a valid rating in my license?

Once again apologies if the above makes no sense, things have changed so much since 'my days' but I'm trying hard to get back up to speed. :ugh:

Edit: from CAA site...

I have a UK PPL (pre-JAA), how will the changes affect me?

Subject to compliance with the revalidation/renewal requirements your licence and ratings will remain valid for non-EASA aircraft only into the future. If you intend to fly EASA aircraft after the EU rules are fully implemented you must obtain an EASA licence. The European regulations will allow a transition period for this. A UK PPL may be used to fly EASA aircraft that are within the scope of the licence and ratings until 7th April 2014. It is also expected that the transition arrangements for the introduction of the LAPL will mean that a UK licence may continue to be used until 7th April 2015 to fly EASA aircraft under 2,000 kg MTOM and with not more than 4 occupants, for private purposes only.

To continue to fly EASA aircraft after the relevant end date, the holder of a UK PPL must apply to the CAA for a Part-FCL licence, with evidence that he complies with the conversion requirements set out in Annex 2 of the “Aircrew Regulation”. (See Attachment 4 to the CAA document “Expected effects on pilot licensing in the UK”). Assuming that compliance is shown, the licence holder will receive a non-expiring EASA Part-FCL licence with the Part-FCL ratings that are valid on the date of issue. It is intended that the Air Navigation Order will be amended so that the class ratings contained in a Part-FCL licence will be valid for the piloting of non-EASA aircraft within those classes. If the UK licence contains UK-specific ratings, such as a microlight rating, the licence holder will also be granted a non-expiring UK licence containing those ratings.

[RTN11]

Either:

1. renew the SEP rating now, by passing the test sending in the relevant paperwork and relevant fee you will get a JAR FCL licence and then be able to do microlight differences training on that rating

or

2. If you only ever want to fly microlights, forget your current licence and do the training for an NPPL(M)

Are you planning to fly 3-axis or weightshift microlights? If weightshift you will probably need at least 10 hours differences training anyway, probably even more.