Service Pride?

[Finningley Boy]

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Defence Policy and Business | RAF nominated for lesbian recruiter of the year award (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness/RafNominatedForLesbianRecruiterOfTheYearAward.htm)

Having read the attached, I'm not sure at all, that this is something for the R.A.F. to place alongside the Battle of Britain, Dambusters, sinking of the Turpitz, Blackbuck mission and all the various operations since?

Whatever the merits on the grounds of what's right and wrong, is this really a matter for boasting?:confused:

Some may disagree.

FB:)

[NutLoose]

Odd isn't it when you think that in some countries of the world we probably bomb and shoot at them... Though to be honest in those countries it will be frowned upon.

[Rosevidney1]

How the service has changed since I first enrolled in 1957. At that time most people wouldn't even known of the word lesbian. Progress eh? No, I don't think so either.

[NutLoose]

Brings a new meaning to the term I am just going to get some mufti on...

[dctyke]

Most probably the only way you can get in to the RAF now, positive discrimination and all that.....................

[occhips]

FB

I am with you FB, who cares about what people do in thier own homes, i don't think we should be boasting about it, i don't think we should be even focusing on it. One of the guys in the picture was on a Sqn i recently served on. He just wanted to be treated normally and not attract attention etc.

I reckon in 10 years time this will not even be an issue.

[Canadian Break]

Sorry, it's an age thing. Was she the lesbian who recruited most people or the person that recruited most lesbians? Reading this makes me feel all evangelical!:suspect:

[Willard Whyte]

Most probably the only way you can get in to the RAF now, positive discrimination and all that.....................

I don't mind blacking up but I'm not jumping in to bed with the homosexuals.

[Canadian Break]

W2; OK, but how about jumping into bed with lesbians?:E

[Airborne Aircrew]

I recently discovered, after all these years, that I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body... :{

[Tankertrashnav]

If I was sitting in the back seat of something pointy and fast I wouldnt give a damn if the lady up front was a lesbian or not as long as she could fly the thing well and get us both back on the ground safely. Or for that matter if it was a bloke who batted for the other side.

What a lot of wasted talent in the past when we kept these people out of the service - it's a change for the better as far as I'm concerned.

That said I'm with occhips on this - no special treatment and no shouting about it.

[foldingwings]

dctyke, my apologies! Whilst reading this thread I read your title without the c and t in it!!

Freudian Foldie:suspect:

[foldingwings]

TTN,

I don't think we ever kept them out, but I do know that they had to keep their sexuality private as a number of them subsequently came out of the closet!

Foldie:hmm:

[Airborne Aircrew]

TTN:

Fear not... They were among us back in the late 70's and early 80's... A man I'd fight alongside any time, any day wasn't a big ladies man... Though I will admit to not finding out until many years later...

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

That said I'm with occhips on this - no special treatment and no shouting about it.

If only that were possible :(

[Pontius Navigator]

FW, I said this before, but on our Int course it was thrashed out :)

If Bloggs, worried about his sexuality approached his flt cdr and confessed to the dirty deed then Admin action followed immediately (this after it be came legal but not in the Services).

If Bloggs OTOH made an open confession to the confessor it would be entered on his personal file and kept as a ultra secret and it would probably not affect his security clearance etc.

The Provost Officer could see nothing wrong with this no matter how hard we beat him.

Earlier than that, a VSO had clearly made his confession and was duly posted to the US. UK would not rescind his posting even though the cousins said they would refuse to accept him. To rescind his posting could have outted the person. Instead it was rumoured that he was deliberately outted deliberately outted in a CIA sting.

[NutLoose]

The US Navy though appears to be bending over Backwards to be seen as being progressive

They even errrm filmed the occasion, wonder if it was the same person filming that suggested it :E

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D7402ldf0qng&v=7402ldf0qng&gl=GB)

While both women are navy officers, they were not serving on the same ship. Snell was off duty, and in mufti, as she came to the dock to meet her partner who had just returned from an 80-day trip to Central American waters.


The pair were not chosen for the kiss - they won the chance in a raffle.

:eek:

Lesbian kiss on quayside marks new era for US Navy | News | The Week UK (http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/43884/lesbian-kiss-quayside-marks-new-era-us-navy)

[alisoncc]

Reckon the Air Force in the '50's and '60's had more than it's fair share of members who were "different". It was considered a quite acceptable practice to "dump" youngsters who were considered different in some way into the military, especially by parents who lacked the financial means to invove the psychiatric professions.

Post WWII and the early days of the Cold War, all three services were hungry for personnel, and would just about take anyone. Whether it was for cannon fodder of the army infantry through to Zob trainees at Cranditz. Everyone who was fit in body and limb was welcome, and bugger the mental aspects.

It was widely reported by siblings and rels that my entrapment was encouraged by the expression "This would make a man out of me", as obviously I wasn't much of at the time.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Heading out on the pull with het. males and a lesbian pilot (civvy, post-RAF) was cracking fun. You can be as non-pc as you like about the "targets" as she is saying and thinking (almost) the same thing, and she proved to be excellent at assessing our chances of success!

[Andu]

How long will it be before they make it compulsory?

[NutLoose]

Only if you have past the high ropes course first... :=

So as single airmen and single air women accommodation are segregated to prevent fraternisation (something i always thought was pathetic ) do they now have a mixed Gay and Lesbian block, and single one person accommodation for the Bi sexuals?

[Ogre]

Almost got in trouble one day at work when I got pounced on by some equal rights operative. I was stopped in the corridor and asked the question "What does LGB mean to you". I immediately responded "smart bombs, CEP, designators etc.".

I was then on the receiving end of a tirade about Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual (LGB!) rights before I pointed out that the question was "what does it mean to me", and I was working on a project involving stores management at the time.

[Roadster280]

LGB? Model railway manufacturer. (http://www.lgb.com)

[Airborne Aircrew]

LGB:

See.. I got that right away...

Little Gay Buggers... :}

[Tankertrashnav]

Last of the Great Bigots?

Plenty of those on PPruNe

(no names, no pack drill etc ;))

[newt]

I bet the Navy are loving this!!!!!

[Wizzard]

I've nothing against dykes but I'd never stick my finger in one

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

I bet the Navy are loving this!!!!!

Both the Navy and the Army will be steering well clear of this one, if the light blue are recognised as the top Lesbian recruiter that only leaves the GBT categories to lay claim to :p

[NutLoose]

LGB:

See.. I got that right away...

Little Gay Buggers... http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif


Airborne Aircrew, shame on you.... for being so un PC with your "littlelism"

Just to be PC, we should also remember the Large Gay Buggers... :}

[Adam Nams]

... and of course not forgetting:

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/dick-van-dyke-mary-poppins.jpeg

[Airborne Aircrew]

Nutloose:

I'm sorry. You are correct, of course. I'll have a strong word with myself...

:ooh:

[6Z3]

The TLA LGB? I'm sure, as a newly appointed senior bucket at Binnsworth introduced himself as such, LGB stands for Large Gut Bucket.

[Exascot]

I have had to edit this post so many times that there is nothing left that will get past the mods.

Victor Meldrew

[glojo]

Regarding the links to the US Navy kiss and now this reference to the RAF it reminds me of how homosexuality was an unlawful offence where the offenders would be imprisoned, NCO's also reduced in rank and all offenders would then be discharged. Now we could say the exact reverse applies... If this behaviour is criticised then the offenders can face imprisonment and discharge from the service.

What a Topsy turvy World but thank goodness we do not have to see pictures of two hairy sailors tickling each others tonsil!!!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::uhoh:

[Rossian]

.....you will, you will. Especially now you've mentioned it in public. Bound to happen, innit?

The Ancient Mariner

[Tankertrashnav]

Interesting thought. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Mitt Romney might be the next US president. As he is a big wheel in the Mormon church (a bishop I believe) which is implacably opposed to homosexuality, I wonder how he would reconcile his church position with the de facto office of commander in chief of the US armed forces, which accept it.

[Exascot]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32684975/Army.jpg

[NutLoose]

Would appear out of all the Companies in the UK the RAF ranks 56th in the league with the Royal Navy coming up the rear at 77th.
The British Army however appears not to be able to get it up onto the top 100. :E

See

Stonewall (http://www.stonewall.org.uk/at_work/stonewall_top_100_employers/default.asp)

.

[teeteringhead]

Interesting choice of words No. 1 bugger the mental aspects. Interesting choice of words No. 2 the Royal Navy coming up the rear at 77th.:E

[Jayand]

I dont get it, surely we should be recruiting the best people for the job, gay, straight, black, white, whatever!
Why have we got recruitment teams specifically targeting certain groups? Targets are being set and standards lowered to meet them, all in the name of the Pc brigade.

[Melchett01]

What a Topsy turvy World but thank goodness we do not have to see pictures of two hairy sailors tickling each others tonsil!!!!!!

Don't tempt fate. Regardless of what the rules say, I yhink you'll find the US Navy has always had more liberal tendencies:

http://www.stearns.org/fun/go_navy.JPG

[Finningley Boy]

Reading Air Marshal Andy Pulford's reaction to the news, and putting aside the quite logical position that it has to be the best man/woman/thingy for the job, regardless of preferred recreational pursuits and private life, if the man is honestly swollen with "pride" at this particular accolade, then just what was going on in his head when he joined up? Presumably at a time when it was a shooting offence to indulge!?:confused:

FB

[foldingwings]

In 2001, I spent 6 happy weeks afloat in the Gulf of Oman on one of HM's larger boats and in the close company of an erstwhile ACNS who entertained me over dinner one evening by telling me that he was a 'gay icon'! Seems when holding that post in MOD at the time when 'girls went to sea' he was media-quoted as having said that he would be happier if homosexuals went to sea rather than women! In an instant, he became an icon of those who bat for the other side!

Foldie:confused:

[NutLoose]

he was media-quoted as having said that he would be happier if homosexuals went to sea rather than women!

Definition of HOMOSEXUAL
1
: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex

2
: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex



So what he was actually saying is he didn't class Homosexual Wren women, i.e Lesbians, as women....
On dodgy ground there and almost up sh*t creek without the proverbial paddle.


:p

[teeteringhead]

Interesting choice of words No. 3... almost up sh*t creek

[glojo]

Would appear out of all the Companies in the UK the RAF ranks 56th in the league with the Royal Navy coming up the rear at 77th.
The British Army however appears not to be able to get it up onto the top 100. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif

I would like to think that the Royal Navy was way ahead of the game :sad:;)

Any volunteers to man or lady or crew := these boats (http://www.bmpt.org.uk/other_boats_history/Gay%20Class/index.htm)?

[TheWizard]

The British Army however appears not to be able to get it up



Do still still put Bromide in their tea?? :}

[Finningley Boy]

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Defence Policy and Business | Navy and RAF among top 100 employers of gay people (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness/NavyAndRafAmongTop100EmployersOfGayPeople.htm)

Looks like the R.A.F. now face stiff competition from the RN in this particular endeavour!:E

FB:)

[Robert G Mugabe]

Homosexuality.... It's all in the jeans.

Male Homosexuality .... It's a race to the bottom.

[Milo Minderbinder]

What I don't understand, is where do they get their Mates from?

[JagMate]

I don't often contribute, but feel that I must say something in this case.

Many of the posts have a thinly disguised sentiment of homophobia that I thought we'd long seen the last of in our Service.

I only hope that these are the views of the 'old and bold' who were products of a different time. They are (and I don’t intend to patronise) quite probably some of the people we all looked up to as those who embodied the very ethos of what we tried to emulate in maintaining the fine traditions of the RAF. However, I remember back to the 70’s when even prime-time television gave a ‘nod and a wink’ to this sort of innuendo and it’s difficult, if this was your formative social background, not to be influenced.

I’m still serving and (without wanting to sound like the guy that’s been brainwashed by the annual E&D training) I value the contribution from all that I work with, irrespective of any social delineation (race / sexuality). What’s important is that an individual is good at their job, pulls their weight and wants to contribute.

Some of the people I’ve had the good fortune to meet in these last xx years that have impressed me the most are those with the courage to stand up and declare their difference. In a time when prejudice is still a barrier to recruiting the best people, I applaud the Pride.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Jagmate,

Make of this what you will but believe me it is nowt more than a simple observation, the only folk in the military, in fact probably in the land who have no voice or official bandwagon to jump on are white heterosexual males.

The very fact you felt the need to post as you have only serves to confirm that fact, a few folk post in a comedic fashion and you have pigeon holed them as homophobic without a single clue as to who and what they are. :=

[NutLoose]

Jagmate, I have absolutely nothing against gay people, a couple of my friends are actually gay, we were only having a bit of light hearted banter, something they also join in with, i am sorry if you didn't see it as that, or that I or any of the others may have offended you.

I for one think it is right that the Forces allow homosexual male and female staff to join, in my day they were persecuted with draconian laws that simply drove it underground, or lead to some false claims to enable early release. It also by the fact it was illegal, allowed the possibility of blackmail against those who were active in the Services.

What I have trouble with is the way in the UK as with all things is the over zealous politically correct brigade that cannot simply say Ok it is now legal, but then fall over themselves to go into overdrive to actively promote Gay rights, racial rights, or indeed any "minority" rights...
I could not care less if the person working besides me is pink, black, yellow, gay, bisexual, disabled, etc etc... Do i need to know that the person is gay? No, do i care?, No, and why should they need to come out and let folks know, they shouldn’t, just as much as the next guy should say, hey the missus likes to tie me to the bed and whip me. They don't, whatever their "choice", it is their own business..
But for some reason we must now be seen to be saying, hey look we let black people, we let gay people etc work with us and actively promote the fact.
The Metropolitan Police in response to the report into the lack of ethnic minorities in the service actively went about recruiting them, one then wonders how many other exemplary possible recruits were turned away in the Police's attempts to be seen as a PC employer.... One hopes none.
Don't get me wrong, I think it is good that we get a more cosmopolitan spread through the workplace were ever it may be, one just hopes one is not being pushed in front of the other in the race to being politically correct... After all when was the last time you saw an agency such as Stonewall actively pushing the rights of the hetrosexual white male and female people in the Armed Forces, Police etc?

I have probably put that over badly, but hope one understands what I am trying to say.

[P6 Driver]

Positive discrimination is a concept that I can't wrap my brain around. Fair and equal treatment gets my vote.

I'll bet £10 of this months wages that there will never be a "Straight Pride" march featured on the RAF web site in the interests of balance. And don't even think about getting me started on other organisations such as the "Black Police Association". GRRRRRRRRR!!!


Nurse! - fetch the medication...

[NutLoose]

So is the gay pride march an all volunteer exercise made up from gay members of the forces ? or is it just another pain in the arse parade that everyone could do without ?

just curious..

[Old Fella]

How pleased I am that homosexuality was not tolerated during my time in the service. I get sick and tired of the liberationists in society trying to convince those of us whom are labelled homophobic that we need to move with the times. As far as I am concerned, do what you want but don't expect me to approve or even condone homosexuality.

[Andu]

or is it just another pain in the arse parade Perhaps not the most appropriate choice of words given the current topic... ( :) joke, Joyce!)

[teeteringhead]

It's only banter Jagmate! Allowing gays (and women) into all job areas is one of the most laudable things the Service has done - provided it is in pursuit of getting the best people in those jobs, and not Positive Discrimination.

And I believe that not just because an old mate was thrown out for being gay (I had no idea). After a couple of years unemployed drifting - he topped himself.

Me homophobic? - I don't think so.

[Training Risky]

'JagMate' - maybe the real reason is in the user ID....!:E:}

[foldingwings]

I was always of the opinion that Jag Mates were a bit gay!

Foldie:)

[Exascot]

'JagMate' - maybe the real reason is in the user ID....!

I recall two Jaguar pilots being found in bed together in about 1980? Didn't this result in another squadron putting little saucers of milk in front of each of their Jaguars on the line the following morning? Perhaps it was an indication of their performance! The aircraft or their pilots in bed?

We have got a very good friend who is so inclined - although you would not guess. He takes my homophobic jokes by retaliating with comments about my being follicularly challenged - now that is not funny:(

[Finningley Boy]

For me, I'm with the just get on with it Brigade. It is the individual's private life and this should be nobody's business but their own. This is why I was interested to find out from those who have and continue to serve, where they generally stand, because while accepting all comers, who meet the operational criteria, I still don't believe it is in the interests of service prestige to go to such lengths to try and identify any of the fighting arms with such an extrovert representation of sexual/cultural thinking. I know I 'd drop dead from shame if my own quirkiness between the sheets were to be thrust into the public domain and I wouldn't be marching about on the streets to highlight it either. Especially if I still wore the Queen's uniform!:ok:

[Tankertrashnav]

Agreed , F-B

I have never understood how it is possible to be proud of things which are accidents of birth. I am English, white, male and heterosexual - that is nothing to be proud of, because I had no decision in the matter. Not being ashamed of it, of course, is an entirely different matter, and I am certainly not. I have a number of homosexual friends all of whom look with distaste on the antics of participants in Gay Pride marches, etc. They regard their homosexuality as their own affair and not something to be shouted about.

To be fair, I am equally bored with the constant references to individual (hetero) sexual prowess, real or imagined, posted in various threads on here :*

[Finningley Boy]

Indeed TKTS Sir,

If Monty Python were still on the go, they'd have trouble with putting together a parody of the services which would stand out these days.

FB:)

[NutLoose]

Hand on heart, we must have all seen Jagmates post coming, but I was equally suprised when he slipped it in.

[Canadian Break]

Don't bend down when a Jag mates around
Cos you'll get a w***y up yer ***!
Etc etc:E

[langleybaston]

Strange world .......... suddenly there are countless numbers of homosexuals around in all walks of life.

At my Grammar School, with a permanent population of 600 boys, 100 of which left and were replaced each year, there was only ONE to my knowledge who was that way inclined; in 41 years in the Met.Office [night shifts, many detachments, courses, etc etc], only ONE of the 3000 or so was known to bat for t'others.

So, where did they all spring from?

Buggered if I know.

[NutLoose]

Only one I knew at my school was involved in a court case involving adults in the Carlisle City's men's toilets, but he was blatently obvious... I would bet the percentages were far greater than you thought, they just chose to keep it quiet.

An old friend from school revealed to me years later he was batting for the other side, and I would never have guessed, he used to come on the pull with the rest of us. Similarly you wouldn't have guessed what Max Mosely got up to would you.

Surprised about the two Jag pilots though, most of ours had trouble getting the NAVWASS up, let alone anything else..

[sled dog]

When i joined up, anyone who " came out " was swiftly out the door. Remember, if, or when, the Gays are 51% of the population us straight blokes will be the "gays"...........:(

[Finningley Boy]

When I was awaiting the next scopie course at West Drayton I was, not surprisingly, sent to join the SWO's Commando elite. There was a large Blonde haired character with a touch of the Dale Winton's about him, but I never thought anything more about. This bloke seemed utterly untroubled, apart from one afternoon when he was sat on his own staring into the middle distance as I returned from lunch, he asked quietly if I wanted a coffee.

Afterwards I was upstairs printing of a set of orders when a clerk from the General Office turned up and helpfully offered to print off my work load so he could get on with his all the quicker. No sooner had he got started than he said to me in a stern tone, whatever you do, keep away from that a******e downstairs. He then proceeded to list a damning catalogue of what were then serious crimes against QRs and involving a number of other young gentlemen, for which the chap was awaiting Court Martial. He got the expected 6 months in Colchester.

How times have changed.:confused:

FB:)

[NutLoose]

I wonder if he could now sue them?

Our room leader at Swinditz in 76 caught two young lads (weren't we all) from one of the other rooms in the block lounge, he refused to tell us who they were, saying they were probably just home sick and deserved the same chance that we had of making a go of the RAF, (it was a time where there were about 60 applicants for each place).... we all agreed.

[AR1]

I was in the 'it was against the rules, so nobody was' camp.

And then I left the RAF.. Within a month I met my first openly gay civilian colleague - I then worked with a Transexual. Once I got over the thought I wasnt going to get a good seeing to, and not only that they probably didnt fancy me anyway, I was alright. In fact whilst looking for Paul Richey's 'Beautiful women of Metz' some years later, having not found any women, spent the night in a bar with Gallic Gay contingent. Must have changed since Paul was there.

But believe it or not, the thing I had the most problem with was working with Irish engineers. I was continually looking for signs that they were terrorists..

[walter kennedy]

Sled dog
<<when, the Gays are 51% of the population us straight blokes will be the "gays". >>
A moot point if ever there was one – there are other cultural groups in the UK now that have been productively using their joysticks as nature intended and when they are in the majority they may not be as tolerant of cultural collapse as we have been. :}

[blaireau]

Don't know who wrote this, but it is so sadly true!!





Remember when???..................read on about the new and improved military!

We used to go to the Officers Club or NCO Club Stag Bar on Friday afternoons to drink, smoke and swap lies with our comrades. Think about this when you read the rest of the letter below. What happened to our Air Force/Marines/Army/Navy............. (orMilitary)? Drinking then became frowned on. Smoking caused cancer and could "harm you." Stag bars became seen as 'sexist'. Gradually, our men quit patronizing their clubs because what happened in the club became fodder for a performance report. It was the same thing at the Airman's Club and the NCO and/or Top 3 clubs. Now we don't have separate clubs for the ranks. Instead we have something called All Ranks Clubs or community clubs. They're open to men and women of all ranks....from airman basic to general officer. Still, no one is there. Gee, I wonder why. The latest brilliant thought out of Washington is that the operators ("pilots?") flying remote aircraft in combat areas from their plush desk at duty stations in Nevada or Arizona should draw the same combat pay as those real world pilots actually on board a plane in a hostile environment. Morepolitically correct logic? They say that remote vehicle operators are subject to the same stress levels as the combat pilot actually flying in combat. ----- REALLY...you'rebull-****ting me, right !!!??? Now that I've primed you a little, read on. There are many who will agree with these sentiments, but they apply to more than just fighter pilots. Unfortunately, the ones with the guts to speak up or push for what they believe in are beaten down by the "system." "Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in the following text - supposedly, Secretary Gates hada force beating the bushes to learn who wrote this.... Where have all the fighter pilots gone? Good Question. Here is a rant from a retired fighter pilot that is worth reading: It is rumored that our current Secretary of Defense recently askedthe question, "Where are all the dynamic leaders of the past?" I canonly assume, if that is true, that he was referring to RobinOlds, Jimmy Doolittle, Patton, Ike, Boyington, Nimitz, etc.? Well, I've got the answer: They were fired before they made Major! Our nation doesn't want those kinds of leaders anymore. Squadron commanders don't run squadrons and wing commanders don't run wings. They are managed by higher ranking dildos with other esoteric goals in mind. Can you imagine someone today looking for a LEADER to execute that Doolittle Raid and suggesting that it be given to a dare-devil boozer - his onlyattributes: he had the respect of his men, an awesome ability to fly, and the organizational skills to put it all together? If someone told me there was a chance in hell of selecting that man today, I would tell them they were either a liar or dumber than ****. I find it ironic that the Air Force put Brigadier General Robin Olds on the cover of the company rag last month. While it made me extremely proud to see his face, he wouldn't makeit across any base in America (or overseas) without ten enlisted folks telling him to zip up his flight suit, get rid of the cigarette, and shave his mustache off. I have a feeling that his response would be predictable and for that crime he would probably get a trip home and an Article 15. We have lost the war on rugged individualism and that, unfortunately, is what fighter pilots want to follow; not because they have to but because they respect leaders of that ilk. We've all run across that leader that made us proud to follow him because you wanted to be like him and make a difference. The individual who you would drag your testicles through glass for rather than disappoint him. We better wake the hell up! We're asking our young men and women to go to really ****ty places; some with unbearable climates, never have a drink, have little or no contact with the opposite sex, not look at magazines of asuggestive nature of any type, and adhere to ridiculous regs that require you to tuck your shirt into your PT uniform on the way to the porta-****ter at night, in a blinding dust storm, because it's a uniform. These people we're sending to combat are some of the brightest I've met but they are looking for a little sanity, which they will only find on the outside if we don't get a friggin' clue. You can't continue asking people to live for months or years at a time acting like nuns and priests. Hell, even they get to have a beer. Who are we afraid of offending? The guys that already hate us enough to strap C-4 to their own bodies and walk into a crowd of us? Think about it.I'm extremely proud of our young men and women who continue to serve. I'm also very in tune with what they are considering for the future and I've got news for whoever sits in the White House, Congress, and our so-called military leaders. Much talent has and will continue to hemorrhage from our services, because wanna-be warriors are tired of fighting on two fronts - - one with our enemies, another against our lack of common sense.

[walter kennedy]

Blaireau
part of your quote was:
<<Much talent has and will continue to hemorrhage from our services, because wanna-be warriors are tired of fighting on two fronts - - one with our enemies, another against our lack of common sense >>
Perhaps the services should reflect on who the real enemies are of the people that the services are supposed to be protecting? :eek:

[DSAT Man]

If I am ever reincarnated, I would come back as a lesbian. That way, I could still make love to a woman and I'd be able to play from the red tees......

[Scuttled]

Walter K.

Perhaps, yes.

But as I was told very early on in my career, we are here to protect democracy, not reflect democracy.

Would you rather have a 100% representative armed force including all the differing groups of all the lovely diverse types of people, in all their cuddly aspects, which were inefficient in it's one and only primary role, but fulfilled all the equality/diversity criteria in today's PC world.....

Or would you prefer the slightly unpolitically correct bunch of rabble that may employ dodgy humour and, occasionally, dodgy practices that the general populace really don't need to know about - but win your country's battles when called upon to do so? You know, the 'scum of the earth' that have served so well in the past? The ones that have historically won the battles? That stuff?

I think 95% of those serving are a bit bored of being told how diversity is a priority, not war fighting. The young men (and it mostly is young men who join and stay for a career) don't really care about the PC aspects of the world in their service career. They won't tell you that; if they do they will be disciplined or worse. They have to tolerate it. They joined for the adventure and to feel they were the best and contributing to a proud tradition. Or maybe they just like a drink and a fight. Either is good.

Anyway, what's more important to you? Or anyone else for that matter? Why are we putting women on board the 4 uk nuclear deterrent submarines? Efficiency? Don't make me laugh. It will be anything but that, but it will be made to work however inefficient, expensive and operationally unnecessary. It looks good.

.........Yeap. That should stir it up a bit. Let's have you then.

[Airborne Aircrew]

Scuttled:

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Harley Quinn]

I had exactly the same views as Scuttled as an immature 16 yr old many tears ago. They have changed in the intervening years. He does make what I believe to be a very valid point re women in confined spaces; that will undoubtedly alter the way HMs boats are operated. As for the integration of all the differing sexual preferences I, for one, think you are way off the mark. The biggest problem is likely to be caused by VSOs trying to be modern and building their E&D CV for the job after they have no future service appointment with these silly celebrations, and given the current and future manpower pressures it is time poorly used..

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

I had exactly the same views as Scuttled as an immature 16 yr old many tears ago.

As for the integration of all the differing sexual preferences I, for one, think you are way off the mark.

Perhaps you still have some maturing to do as I see no specific mention of sexual preference in Scuttled's post, what he did say was

"Would you rather have a 100% representative armed force including all the differing groups of all the lovely diverse types of people, in all their cuddly aspects, which were inefficient in it's one and only primary role, but fulfilled all the equality/diversity criteria in today's PC world....."

Which to me clearly suggests way more than just sexual orientation and is more of a tongue in cheek pop at how the service could look if we religiously followed every single PC pathway.

[teeteringhead]

Would you rather have a 100% representative armed force ... one was once in conversation with a USAF officer who was saying how important it was that an organisation representing a Nation should represent its diversity.

I asked him why that doesn't apply to the US Olympic Track & Field Team ......

[Biggus]

If the UK military is supposed to be more closely representative of the society it is recruited from - why aren't there any 80-90 year olds employed - blatant ageism if ever I saw it! Or are we only going to actively recruit certain minorities and ignore others (sin heaped upon sin)!


Not that people over 65 are much of a minority....

1 in 6 of the UK population is currently over 65, and by 2050 that will be 1 in 4!

The ageing population - UK Parliament (http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/key-issues-for-the-new-parliament/value-for-money-in-public-services/the-ageing-population/)

[NutLoose]

If the UK military is supposed to be more closely representative of the society it is recruited from

And sadly that includes redundancies

[Pontius Navigator]

building their E&D CV for the job after they have no future service appointment

Been there, seen it, read the book

First we had QA rammed down our throats, the Service Level Agreements - 'sorry can't do that no SLA or it will be 20 working days as per SLA' , European Computer Driving Licence (for CinC's CV), GPC courses (now that really worked across Government didn't it).

Then creeping civilianisation of terms - management - excecutive - HR - appraisal - white fleet and probably many others.

[Tankertrashnav]

Would you rather have a 100% representative armed force including all the differing groups of all the lovely diverse types of people, in all their cuddly aspects, which were inefficient in it's one and only primary role, but fulfilled all the equality/diversity criteria in today's PC world.....

Yep, I think I'll go for the diverse armed force myself. That way I'll get Alexander the Great, Hadrian, Richard the Lionheart, T.E.Lawrence and many more who would be excluded if some had their way.

Don't think I'll be calling any of them cuddly though!

Re ageism in the military - I wouldnt mind coming back. Do they do Stannah stairlifts on aircraft? ;)

[Airborne Aircrew]

That way I'll get Alexander the Great, Hadrian, Richard the Lionheart, T.E.Lawrence and many more who would be excluded if some had their way. ... and they'll be leading a bunch of these into combat no doubt...

http://costumenetwork.com/albums/album111/GayPride2007_08.jpg

:E:E:E:E:E

[Tankertrashnav]

He looks as though he could be pretty handy in a scrap!

Scares the hell out of me :eek:

[mad_jock]

I think you will find he is 3 para mortar platoon.

[Tankertrashnav]

Seriously Jock? If so, I certainly wont be picking a fight with him!

[Scuttled]

Harley Quinn and TTN.

Just a quick response and to make myself as clear as I possibly can be.

I really couldn't care less if you are white, black or anything inbetween. I don't want to know what your sexual preferences or turn ons are in any respect. It is hard for me to express how disinterested I am in whether you like girls, boys or both. I don't care what your political opinions are as long as they do not interfere in your ability to perform the tasks that I give to you as part of the command structure which we all agreed to serve. I'm not at all interested in which God you do, or do not, believe in.

If you are getting a hard time because of any of the above, I will side with you and come down hard on the narrow minded protagonist abusing you, if guilt is proven. But I'd rather it was dealt with quietly and firmly by a professional British NCO.

I have family, friends, colleagues and subordinates who will tick just about all of the diversity criteria I can think of and it keeps life interesting - off duty.

However, there should be no need, or urge, to express or endorse any lifestyle through service means, or attempt to positively discriminate/pander to any group of people whatsoever. It's the best man for the job. Endex.

Historically the UK forces are made up of white working class males who have kicked many backsides all over the world in the name of the Queen/King, with such men kept in check by their officers and SNCOs. The demographic of the coutry has changed in the last 100 years, and so some of these men (and women) may now look a little different. I don't care about that either. But don't expect to be promoted, because I am short of native american NCOs, on that basis alone. Also, if a job such as supplier requires the person to be capable of lugging kit around in the desert heat, then a 19 year old size 8 female is way down my list of preferred personnel at that time.

To my lovely boys and girls - you are all equally wonderful in my eyes when you come to work for me until they you prove otherwise. You will know about it when that happens. But don't expect special allowances to be made because you tick some minority box or another. I don't care. Never have.

[ex-fast-jets]

Nice post - assuming you are not a Costa Captain!!

However, being a pedant:

It's the best man for the job. Endex.

Perhaps "person" these days might work better!!

Nevertheless, you make entirely valid and correct points!!

Good to see.

[Harley Quinn]

Scuttled, following your last I agree with you.

[Scuttled]

Thanks BomberH,

I was just being as clear as I could be as a couple of chaps skimming the forum seemed to think I was some sort of immature closet homophobic racist. Which I'm not.

However, in the interests of diversity I am very keen to get an immature closet homophobic racist into my command if anyone has a spare, as I feel that they should also not be discrimnated against. I think.

Scuttled.

[Unchecked]

Best and least nonsensical posts I've read on this forum in a long time, Scuttled.

Cheers for that.

[NutLoose]

Doesn't Airborne Artist take some odd holiday snaps, last time I went to London it was all Big Ben and the Houses Parliament.... Never thought or did it even cross my mind to take pics of half naked men wearing partial Artic Camo... Still everyone to their own :E


Edit, bearing in mind next post

Nnnnnnnooooooooo I mistyped his name and the moment is lost for ever. :{

[Airborne Aircrew]

NutLoose:

Airborne Artist is going to kick your arse when he sees your post... http://www.hqrafregiment.net/images/smilies/laughingat.gif

[Tankertrashnav]

Scuttled - absolutely no quibble with anything you say. Did you think I thought otherwise?

[Scuttled]

TTN

Ooops, I thought there was a little dig in there yes. I was probably being a bit sensitive. Apologies for any misunderstanding on my part.

Nutloose

I think that chap in the picture may actually be called Big Ben, so it's not actually so different from your London holiday snaps.

[AR1]

A long way from the snowdrop trying to charge me with 'conduct unbecoming' for kissing my missus outside the gates at st mawgan!

Edit: no euphamisms were used in this post.

[500N]

Scuttled

"Also, if a job such as supplier requires the person to be capable of lugging kit around in the desert heat, then a 19 year old size 8 female is way down my list of preferred personnel at that time."

If they can do it, fine by me but have been in two situations involving females that couldn't do what was asked, one involved lugging kit on exercise in hot weather (was ordered to take her with the resultant collapse not long after requiring evac, the other, didn't exit the helocopter when everyone else did even after repeated instructions as to why it was important for aircraft stability and waiting for her to say she was ready. Seeing a helocopter rock from side to side is not a sight you want to see when trying to get on the ground from a rope.

[Airborne Aircrew]

I have no problem with women in combat.

As long as they are PMSing and they've just been told that the Taliban chap over there sez her arse looks big in those trousers...:E

[NutLoose]

Many moons ago I watched a couple of lady air loadmasters on the VC10 take turns drag the multi person (50?) dinghies to the door from down the back of the Ten as part of their qualification.... They were heavy even for a couple of us guys and were almost bigger than the young lasses doing the test, I haven't seen such grim determination in a young lady as that since.

[pr00ne]

Langleybaston,

Not sure how old you are but don't forget that homosexuality was illegal in the UK until 1967, that must have had a huge effect on how people portrayed themselves. Not sure how the Public Schools managed for so long though...

As for it being a strange world, isn't it indeed a far stranger and weirder world where a Government deems it has to tell me where I can and can't put my penis in other consenting adults, and that if I do not do as it thinks I could be sent to jail? Now that is a VERY strange world...


Oldfella,

You said;

"How pleased I am that homosexuality was not tolerated during my time in the service."

Why? Why are you so frightened of it, why is it such a threat?

I ask that as a genuine question. WHY does homosexuality seem to freak out so many men?

[Exascot]

WHY does homosexuality seem to freak out so many men?

As a very good friend of mine for decades says: 'because it isn't f...ing natural'

The 'f' word being used as a prenominal intensifier not the other sense of the word.

Any other questions about abnormal activities I can't answer.

[Willard Whyte]

It should also be noted that the anus is an exit, not an entrance.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

It should also be noted that the anus is an exit, not an entrance.

Not at all happy with that logic as it should be noted that anal sex between a man and a women can be intensely satisfying, irrespective of who is the putter and who is the taker :ok:

[E-Spy]

Quote from a Tweeeetter account:

'Homophobia: the fear that gay men will treat you the same way that you treat women'

[ZH875]

I have no problem with women in combat.

As long as they are PMSing and they've just been told that the Taliban chap over there sez her arse looks big in those trousers...:E

Thanks for the soggy keyboard and dripping monitor

[Airborne Aircrew]

Not at all happy with that logic as it should be noted that anal sex between a man and a women can be intensely satisfying, irrespective of who is the putter and who is the taker

There's a few suspicions about Seldom confirmed in that little missive... :E

[Exascot]

There's a few suspicions about Seldom confirmed in that little missive...

'Seldom fit for purpose' - replace the 'el' with 'o' and it says a lot :E

Jolly pleased we moved from Oxon and our 'pink pound' village.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

There's a few suspicions about Seldom confirmed in that little missive... :E

One can surmise from the use of "suspicion" that things are less than adventurous in the AA bed :p:p:p

[cazatou]

I wonder how SFFP came to be aware of that "Fact"?

[Melchett01]

Oh please, do we really have to listen to old crusties and their thrusting ambitions?!

It's enough to put one off one's afternoon tea.

[Biggus]

It's the second part of Seldom's sentence which is perhaps most revealing about him......

[Melchett01]

Indeed ... it brings a whole new take on the notion of 'whatever tickles your fancy' :E

[airpolice]

SFFP, you may want to consider that getting pissed and roaming the streets looking for innocents to attack, is also very satisfying to some of the great unwashed, but it's not right.

If, and I mean IF there is any cosmic reason to why things are the way they are, there is a reason that the foul smelling stuff comes out of that end; it is a reminder that you should not be in there.

For the benefit of the God botherers, the Bible mentions Adam & Eve not Adam & Steve.

[Pontius Navigator]

Necrophilliac spings to mind regarding this thread.

[cazatou]

Melchett

I'm an hour ahead of you - time for an aperitif!!

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

SFFP, you may want to consider that getting pissed and roaming the streets looking for innocents to attack, is also very satisfying to some of the great unwashed, but it's not right.

If, and I mean IF there is any cosmic reason to why things are the way they are, there is a reason that the foul smelling stuff comes out of that end; it is a reminder that you should not be in there.

For the benefit of the God botherers, the Bible mentions Adam & Eve not Adam & Steve.

Sorry but you've lost me there old boy :confused:

[pr00ne]

Oh for goodness sake!

Out come the giggling homophobes and the macho dinosaurs.

I asked a genuine question.

I see nothing wrong with what Seldomfitforpurpose said, I am in complete agreement as it happens but I am intrigued by the 'it's not natural' nonsense.

Of COURSE it's natural, if done by consenting adults. If it's not consenting then it's like any other sexual activity, sexual assault. If you are going to take an Old Testament view then you should simply have sex for the purposes of reproduction and everything else is wrong and wholly unnatural. What is there that's natural about oral sex that isn't natural about anal sex?

A more modern view is that sex is a pleasant recreational activity for consenting adults. The moral minority may not agree when it comes to homosexuality and hetreosexual anal sex but the fact is that it is practiced by a large percentage of the population. Just because some old crusties on here find it morally reprehensible doesn't alter that fact.

Comparing consensual anal sex to "getting pissed and roaming the streets looking for innocents to attack" is a nonsensical argument.

[Finningley Boy]

I feel superior to Gay men because they're all girly!:p

And pr00ne, get down off your high Horse!;)

FB:)

[pr00ne]

FB,


Shan't!


Rock Hudson, he was girly wasn't he? Oh, and Ian Gleed, he was girly.