FAA IR and IMC - fun "Can I do this?" questions...

[Katamarino]

So, a couple of questions have recently sprung to mind. I have an FAA CPL/IR, and a JAA PPL/IMC

1) Can I fly under the hood, in a JAA reg aircraft with a safety pilot (so technically VFR), and fly some practise approaches to keep my FAA IR current? However, this would not be in UK airspace so the IMC rating would not apply...

2) Can I use my IMC rating, in UK airspace, in a Dutch registered airplane?

[Mark 1]

Yes and yes.

1) is covered under ANO article 23 in the UK (your's may be different) and the FAA do not stipulate the nationality of airspace or aircraft, just that you do 6 approaches, holds, tracking etc. You could likewise do an IPC under the hood here with a suitable CFII.

2) If your aircraft is approved for IMC, then your UK IMC rating will allow you to fly it in UK airspace in IMC too.

[Katamarino]

Thanks for the fast and positive replies Mark, appreciated!

[Tall_Guy_in_a_PA28]

One word of caution (actually a few words). In some jurisdictions (not UK), to fly an IFR approach (even a practice) would require you to be on an IFR flight plan which would in turn require the P1 to be IFR legal.

[dublinpilot]

2) If your aircraft is approved for IMC, then your UK IMC rating will allow you to fly it in UK airspace in IMC too.

You do need to check the Dutch rules applying to the dutch registered aircraft too. Not sure if this reply takes that into account.

For example, if you changed "Dutch registered airplane" to "Irish registered airplane" then the answer would be no, as you're require an IR to fly an EI Registered aircraft under IFR, anywhere in the world.

[S-Works]

I stand to be corrected but as the IMCr is a national rating it is only valid in G reg aircraft.

[mm_flynn]

I stand to be corrected but as the IMCr is a national rating it is only valid in G reg aircraft.

I don't think that is strictly true. For example in the case of an N-reg in the UK being flown by a UK PPL IMCr holder -


The ANO gives the pilot the permission to use the IMCr in the UK, but does not (to my knowledge) specifically limit that privilege to G-reg aircraft.
the FARs specifically allow you to use a country's licence to operate an n-reg within the country which issued the licence (ie the UK in this case)

So this specific case would be fine (some fine details where activities which are legal in the UK but illegal in the US are potentially subject to debate).

The issue of a Dutch (or anything other ) aircraft in the UK would be rely on the state of registry having a provision that a foreign licence is valid for operating their aircraft. I believe the national laws are written so any country's JAA licence is valid to fly any JAA country's aircraft. As such, operation of a Dutch aircraft with a UK PPL IMCr in the UK should be legal from both countries' perspective.

However, as a note, it is not legal to operate a Dutch aircraft in the UK using an FAA Licence from the FAA perspective.

[S-Works]

I don't think that's correct but my memory is a bit hazy and I am mobile at the moment. JAA does confer use of licences in all member state aircraft but not for national ratings AFAIK. We have thus problem when adding the SMG rating to JAA licences as its Annex2 and therefore a national rating.

PeterH/IO540 I think did chapter and verse on this.

I will look when I get home.

[bookworm]

For a foreign registered aircraft, the ANO (Art 61) permits you to fly on a licence granted or rendered valid by the UK for private flights only. For public transport and aerial work, a licence granted or rendered valid by the state of registration is required.

Thus you may exercise the privileges of your UK IMC rating in a foreign registered aircraft on a private flight without breaking UK law. Whether or not by doing so you break the law of the country of registration is another matter.

However, as a note, it is not legal to operate a Dutch aircraft in the UK using an FAA Licence from the FAA perspective.

Are you sure? I know that from the FAA perspective you can't operate a US aircraft in the UK using a Dutch licence. But I can't see the issue with using an FAA licence that is rendered valid (with limitations) by the ANO (Art 62) in a Dutch aircraft.

With that in mind, I think Katamarino can use the privileges of the FAA/IR to fly under IFR outside controlled airspace on a private flight in the UK.

I'm gonna miss conversations like this when Part-FCL comes in... ;)

[mm_flynn]

darn you are right again :ugh:

I had not appreciated the linking of 61 and 62 for private flights, which appears to validate all proper ICAO licences for any registration aircraft within the UK (only OCAS for IFR operations.)

I suspect the FAA perspective in this case is simply that they have no opinion, as you are not flying one of their aircraft nor in their airspace.

(I was thinking more of the case of a Dutch licence, N reg, in the UK - which the FAA specifically doesn't allow, but which the UK authorise by rendering the Dutch licence valid for operating an Nreg in the UK)

[Katamarino]

Of course, I don't actually want to use the N-Reg licence for anything at all. I just want to use my JAA with IMC in UK airspace, and fly VFR under the hood with a safety pilot here in Holland! All done on the JAA licence, but with the benefit of the logged time keeping the FAA licence current.

[englishal]

If you have a JAA licence, and flying a JAA aircraft in JAA aispace, then you are legal. If you want to practice IAPs in VMC under the hood with a safety pilot then you are legal. As long as you do the 6 approaches, holding, tracking nav aids etc., as required by the FAA to remain current, and as long as these are done under the hood then whatever aeroplane you do them in will add to the FAA rolling currency.

You could even do an IPC if you wanted with an FAA CFII as long as you don't pay himher for their flying.....and as long as it is done in VMC unless they hold a JAA IMC/IR unless it is OCAS....clear (as mud!).. ;)

[peterh337]

as the IMCr is a national rating it is only valid in G reg aircraft.

I have it in writing from the CAA that the IMCR is not restricted to G-reg. IIRC, there is no such restriction in the ANO either.

What privileges (if any) a given piece of paper gives you in a given aircraft is initially up to the State of Registry of that aircraft.

One old Q is whether the IMCR is valid in an N-reg. I wrote to the FAA and they said Yes. Some notes here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/misc-privileges/index.html).

The IFR privileges of the IMCR are limited to UK airspace only (which is obviously regardless of aircraft reg).