Beards & Flying

[PT6A]

Question:-

What regulations are in force regarding beards?

I know at my company they are not allowed as the flight deck oxygen mask is not able to form a proper seal..... So in the event of smoke / fumes your stuffed.

Just curious how other airlines / regulatory authorities treat this?

[Denti]

Good one. Had to look it up as i didn't check for a couple years. Weirdly enough only found one mention within the personal grooming section which is applicable both for cabin and flightdeck crews.

Short beards are generally permitted, but no “three-day stubble”. One has to ensure that shaved beards are always freshly shaved. Dyed beards are not permitted.

Seems to be more about appearance than any safety factor.

[Slasher]

Beards IMHO are merely an affectation. They appear to serve
no practical purpose, other than to visually inform everyone
what one ate during one's last meal and for depositing some
scratches on the naughty bits of one's missus/girlfriend.

Co policy is neatly trimmed beards but no ZZ Tops allowed.

[PT6A]

Just looking over at faa.gov.... It seems beards are totally banned.

Even to the point you cant be a flight ops inspector with one....


How do those of certain religions get on with this rule?

[Sleeve Wing]

>>> Beards IMHO are merely an affectation. <<<

Try walking across a carrier deck in the winter. Ask many a hirsute Naval pilot and find out whether a mask seals OK.

Oh, six weeks was it, Slasher, just to get a bit of fuzz ?!! ;)

[ImbracableCrunk]

Why can't we fly with Michele Bachmann?

[MarkerInbound]

Hey PT6A,

Where do you see on FAA.gov beards are banned? Besides a bunch of reports by people named Beard, all I see are an AC that says beards will affect the amount of O2 you from a yellow dixie cup or a diluter demand mask and a case upholding the Captain's authority to bounce an ASI because he had a beard. Me, I would have told the Fed, "Here's your mask, you do this, this and this. If we really do lose the cabin, you're going to be brain dead because we'll be too busy to assist you. You still want to come along?"

All the US airlines require the flight crew to be clean shaven, I've seen a fair amount of fuzz on the cabin crew. It's mainly an image thing, they think the PAX will feel better if they're not being flown around by a bunch of Hippies.

I spent 3 or 4 years hauling cargo in a Three with with a two-three week growth. Just mowed it once a week. Saved I don't know how much time. Finally had to shave one morning in Memphis when I was going to have to ask Delta for a jumpseat home.

[fergineer]

Flew with a full beard for 22 years both in military and civillian flying, never had a problem. Always passed the medical with nothing ever said about the beard. Yes it was kept neat and tidy but that was all.

[Virtual738]

My beard has a fear of flying !

:*

[M-ONGO]

Let's not be sexist people...

Flew a few sectors with a woman that could have had the same issue here!

[Hydromet]

Beards IMHO are merely an affectation.
Come on, Slash, if we were meant to shave we would have been born without beards. You weren't? Sad.;)

As a 17 year old apprentice AME with QF, growing my first beard, I was told by a senior manager - not my boss, just one who happened to see me - "Qantas doesn't like its apprentices to have beards - get it off." Seems the management style hasn't changed.

[18-Wheeler]

The thing about not getting a good seal on the oxy mask is something I've found to be a myth.
It's just for appearances to the public.

[727gm]

And just be glad that the "professional image" types in management/branding don't think toupees look better than bald heads!

I've seen a Sikh airline pilot with a beard, and he said he wore the beard in the air force previously.

[MarcK]

In the US, OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) has decreed that you cannot get a full mask seal with a beard. At least for firefighters, this meant no beards allowed. The FAA has issued AC 120-43 (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/list/AC%20120-43/$FILE/AC120-43.pdf) which, while not regulatory, confirms a loss of mask effectiveness when used over a beard.

[hikoushi]

Hawaiian (for sure) and Air Canada (pretty sure, seen a few at least) both allow beards.

[blueplume]

From experience I can tell you that being smooth shaved allows the mask to fit more comfortably and make a better seal but having a beard certainly won't kill you.

Very often, those that make the most noise about beards are those that couldn't grow a beard if they were paid.

[Offchocks]

I had a beard with my previous airline in Europe. As far as I know there are no requirements to be beardless in Australia except if you work for Qantas, they have a rule that no beards are allowed for pilots ..... just as well really because "she who must be obeyed" gave me grief when I had one! ;)

[Slasher]

Don't think I never had a beard Hydro - during my youth in
the NT and FNQ flogging 402s and Chieftains I was as hairy
as cousin Itt! Born mostly out of sheer laziness to shave and
the fact I wanted to look older (and therefore appear wiser) in
front of my fellow (older) pilots.

Thing is it itched and sweated a lot not to mention a lot of the
chicks just didn't dig beards (esp the scratching bit). It was
more trouble than it was worth with constantly having to trim
and mow the thing, and in the end I decided it was only for
looks and really nothing else so I shaved the damn thing off.
Immediately felt naked but in a couple of days felt refreshed
plus my score sheet rose considerably. :E

Still maintain its an affectation but prepared to give benefit
of the doubt to sporting one walking around carriers in 50kt
blizzards.

[reynoldsno1]

I was excused shaving whilst in the RAF, as were at least a couple of other aircrew I knew. Medical reasons for bad rashes, scars and "ingrowing" facial air. It wasn't an issue, except I was usually asked to 'disappear' if very senior officers or VIPs were around :ok:

[jcjeant]

What about tattoos and piercing on the face ?:8

[Denti]

Tattoos and piercings where visible are not allowed and reason for immediate dismissal. Only exception are earrings for female pilots or cabin attendants.

That is pretty clear cut in our manual and backed up by labor law.

[kwateow]

The prettiest girls have piercings where only the capt gets to see them.

[Denti]

@kwateow, i do agree, but sadly it is nowadays usually the FO who gets to see them...

[aerobat77]

As far as I know there are no requirements to be beardless in Australia except if you work for Qantas, they have a rule that no beards are allowed for pilots

beyond that they expect the cabin attendants to be always smoothly shaved as well...

[Andy Lavies]

As a lifelong professional sailorman, I've worn a full set for fifty years. Never had a problem with BA masks in any of the dozens of fire fighting courses I've done over decades. Proper Captains (nautical ones) do not do moustaches - only half dressed :).

[jcjeant]

Tattoos and piercings where visible are not allowed and reason for immediate dismissal. Only exception are earrings for female pilots or cabin attendants.

That is pretty clear cut in our manual and backed up by labor law.

LOL ...

How tattoos and piercings can affect the ability of a pilot do his work in the state of the art?
Who can explain it in detail?
It seems to me that this labor law has nothing to do with the art of flying or flight safety ...
Some might even perceive the scent of discrimination ...

[Denti]

Never said it was about flight safety although one could argue that piercings are a case of flight safety as they quite often cause injuries during evacuation training.

It is of course about appearance to the paying customer. Many of them don't exactly like goth cabin attendants or punk pilots. That said we are of course free to pierce areas of our bodies that are not usually seen (the tongue is deemed visible) and wear tats where it is usually covered by the uniform. Going on a discovery voyage after work can be a very pleasant pastime...

[4Greens]

Modern military masks have a mechanism that forces the mask onto the face. There would be less leakage with a beard than with a standard airline mask.

[Virtual738]

Bin Laden had a beard !!!

He loved flying.

[18-Wheeler]

Modern military masks have a mechanism that forces the mask onto the face. There would be less leakage with a beard than with a standard airline mask.

A lot of the military masks are pressure masks and a lot (if not all) of the airliner ones are on-demand type so sealing just isn't as important for them.

[rh200]

The thing about not getting a good seal on the oxy mask is something I've found to be a myth.
It's just for appearances to the public. Sounds like the sort of thing hard data is needed on. A casual look at the issue would indicate their has to be at least some reduction in performance, but is it significant?

This seems like an issue that a simple study with some people, decompression chamber and a variety of masks would solve.

And throw in a few smoke bombs into the mix as well.

[18-Wheeler]

A casual look at the issue would indicate their has to be at least some reduction in performance, but is it significant?

I doubt it very much. (But could be wrong)
The reason is as I mentioned just above, they are an on-demand type mask and so don't have to hold in any pressure as such. As soon as you breath in, the regulator senses a slight drop in pressure (don't need much) and starts pumping in oxygen in either diluted or 100% flow depending on what you've selected.
As long as there's a bit of a seal on the edges of the mask it'll work fine. I can see that perhaps a tiny little bit of smoke might get sucked into the mask if the seal was particularly bad but probably not enough to cause discomfort.

[The burgermeister]

Beards should be banned if you fly with passengers. Imagine their fear if a bearded pilot were to be seen leaving the flight deck.
"Oh dear I thought it was a pilot at the wheel! Looks like we have a geography teacher or local councillor instead, We are all doomed"

[AKAAB]

Our masks have a placard that states "Beards May Not Seal." Yet, we have no restrictions in place for beards.

I'm still waiting for the day a pilot refuses to fly with a bearded pilot because he can't be assured the other guy's mask will work adequately when needed. It's a serious safety issue that gets shrugged off...until it becomes a "contributing factor" in an investigation.

[Crankhandle]

It's all a fur-fy (pun intended), with over 2000 hrs logged with the actual oxygen mask covering my mouth I can vouch for the fact that it does not leak with a full beard, I wore a beard for 33 years until some so called chief pilot or whatever at Ansett threatened us with our jobs if we didn't cut them off. Started re-growing it the day I retired. When I first started in the job in the back of a DC3 I did a de-comp check with the RAAF and the operator there told my boss that the beard makes a labyrinth seal with the face and can in most cases be a better seal than skin. The test was to FL350 and about 80% of ops were above FL250. As you suck to breath the mask squashes against the face, it is supposed to be tight as well anyway. The note on the side of most masks I used only stated that it hadn't been tested for use with a beard, not that it didn't work with a beard, it worked for me and thousands of others

[18-Wheeler]

Ta, Crankhandle.
(Imagine my surprise) :)

[Sephore]

Do you have a long beard or a trimmed one ?

I've seen saudi, indian or pakistani pilots with long beard and I was asking myself if it's really going to interfere with the oxygen mask in case of decompression, I have one myself but trimmed well not so trimmed definitely not a 3 days beard more a one month.

TY :ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

I read somewhere that Adolf Hitler's short trimmed moustache was the style worn in the trenches during the Great War to ensure a good seal around a gas mask, whilst still looking German! By wearing it, he was overtly reminding everybody "I fought in the trenches too".

Clearly the Royal Navy still wear them (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2011/December/09/111209-HW-815NAS-Beard)

I tried growing a moustache once, itched like hell and made me sneeze so I shaved it off. My wife assures me that a beard would be a very bad thing and likely to have a detremental effect on my love life. That worries me far more than the very rare occasions I might ever wear an oxygen mask.

Just found on an RAF website:

Muslim men are permitted to wear short, neatly trimmed beards. However, for occupational or operational reasons, where a hazard clearly exists, Muslim men may be required to modify or remove facial hair to such an extent as to enable the correct wearing of breathing apparatus, oxygen masks or respirators. Notwithstanding this, Muslim men will not be required to shave their beards in order to perform Nuclear, Biological and Chemical training drills.

G

[kilomikedelta]

One must accept that facial hair is a consequence of testicular production of testosterone. Some believe it to be the male curse to have to shave regularly. Those males who have a surgical or medical castration for cancer don't have to shave their faces. Perhaps those who feel that all men should appear beardless have other issues that they may wish to discuss with their therapist.

[Adverse Jaw]

I remember being told that the reason for the ban on beards was that, if greasy, contact with 100% oxygen would cause spontaneous combustion - anybody out there willing test the veracity of this hypothesis - a fitting experiment for some of those manly types?

[Beeline]

Mmm

I think the grease comes from your skin unless the individual has over indulged with the inflight meal! Grease + Oxygen + Ignition = explosion!

For full fuel tank entry engineers require a mask fitment test carried out by a superb piece of kit from Sabre. Ive been told our fire fighters use the same. It measures leak rates, negative pressures and positive pressures from all head angles. I have a beard and pass this Sabre test every time.

I can ensure that the mask we use is inferior to the standard of mask that is located in the flight deck.

I'm sure a few dodgy masks make into the crew's cases for the night stop though lol!

K Regards

[Neptunus Rex]

Virgin Mary

We have quite a few bearded Pilots at Virgin, and most of them look very smart indeed. You also have a "Beardy" boss, so who is to complain?

[Sephore]

So is a long beard a real problem or not ?

[misd-agin]

Boeing test pilot with short beard at the :20 second mark.

Boeing 747-8F Performs Ultimate Rejected Take-off - YouTube

[B2N2]

Not my picture, it is an anonymous forum after all, but I sport a flavor safor a la

http://static.poponthepop.com/images/gallery/carey-hart-goatee.jpg
even though I feel a full scale goatee like

http://static.poponthepop.com/files/pitt-goatee.jpg

would seal equally well since the mask would fit over the goatee rather then sit over a beard.
I have spoken with FAA Inspectors that are very adament that a mask will not seal and it's therefore a safety issue.
mainly based on hear say and the aforementioned Advisory Circular which dates back from like 30+ years ago.
Personal opinion? I think the whole "does not seal" argument is BS.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Excuse me, but does this thread extend to those females who won't admit they have a facial hair problem? :ouch:

I know, I know....coat, door.

[Sephore]

Still waiting for an answer : )