Accessing ATC flight plans?

[mat777]

Is there a way for a member of the general public to look up recent ATC flight plans?

I ask because my house, in Wettenhall, South cheshire (very near Oulton Park), is on the flight path for non-commercial light traffic going north to south (we have had the Vulcan nearby before en route to the lakes and regularly get army helicopters flying overhead) and on Wednesday (21st) in the early afternoon, I was sat upstairs when something flew over, very low indeed, with a tremendous zoom but by the time I got to a window, whatever it it was had long gone. Now, from the sounds of it, it was something piston engined, prop driven and very, very fast - I'm thinking some sort of warbird. I know it is a very long shot, but I would quite like to find out what it was.

Thanks,

Matt

[blissbak]

By chance it was a Santa fly by during a flight check

[crispey]

Hello mat777

I wonder if you referring to the Manchester TMA Low Level Route which runs from Winsford to Warrington and is about 4 miles wide.Aircraft can transit this route up to a height of 1250 feet without speaking to the local Air Traffic facilities if they wish.It is a way for smaller non commercial aircraft to go North-South or South-North without the complication of transitting complex controlled airspace around Manchester and Liverpool.The south western edge of the route is near Oulton.

Also there is a radio beacon very near to Oulton Park(Whitegate) and this is used as a waypoint for commercial flights but they would normally be higher than what you are describing.

There also used to be extensive military use of that area in the past.I'm not sure about the present day but way back in the 70s two Harriers collided near Wettenhall.They were based in east Anglia I believe.The accident was seen from Middlewich where I then worked.

If it was an aircraft using the Low level Route route then there would be no requirement to file a flight plan.

ManTMA Overflights Group ~ Display (Low Level) (http://www.mantma.co.uk/01_man-low-level.html)

This link above will give you a useful chart.

[dagowly]

Very low indeed?

More than likely VFR, nothing you can do. Just appreciate its piston power ;)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Not all flights are required to submit Flight Plans to ATC so even if the information was available you probably would not find the aircraft in question.

[mat777]

Hi crispey,

That must indeed be the route as everything that comes over is near enough flying between the chimney pots!

Its a bit of a bummer that it doesnt have to appear on a flight plan... however, I presume that something must be on file for the bits at either end of that corridor to continue the journey - is there a way I can go digging through that?

thanks,

Matt


EDIT: just read the following 2 replies..... darn it! Oh well, I'll just have to be quicker to a window next time!

[ZOOKER]

Matt,
as one who 'worked' that bit of airspace for many years, there was a requirement to inform LLC traffic to "Keep a sharp lookout, there may be traffic in the Low Level Route, unknown to ATC".
As the original EGCC/EGGP Zone was so wide, the LLR was introduced to allow VFR a/c to transit north/south, clear of the high ground of The Pennines and the requirement to operate single-engine,over water, west of Wallasey.
Many pilots thought there was a requirement for ATC clearance to use the airspace, but, due to the 1250ft restriction being at the base of radar cover, this was not the case. In the past, DC3s and C130s have used the LLC, without a word to ATC.
Have fun!

[crispey]

Sorry Matt but no there is nothing much you can do about it really, as explained by Zooker.However most aircraft these days are likely to be radio equipped and will call Manchester Approach/Radar to advise them of their movements and seek guidance as to the likelihood of other traffic.If they are quiet they will usually be pleased to help.If they can.

If you are really keen to know what is going on you could get hold of a suitable airband receiver and you should hear the aircraft giving his routing,departure airfield and arrival destination,assuming he talks to the unit at Manchester.He could easily be non radio though which will help you even less.

You should read also the stuff on this site about using an airband radio .Basically it's not strictly legal but lots do it.But from where you live you should hear the Manchester unit and the aircraft itself.And the radios themselves are not that expensive.

[mat777]

Thanks Crispey, that sounds an interesting idea and I might look into it! I presume it is a wavelength one cannot tune into with a CB radio?

[eastern wiseguy]

Paging HD ...........:E

[dagowly]

There is always the extremist option of hanging out the window and waving your fist at it

[chevvron]

Matt: CB operates on (I think) 27 mhz and 980 mhz bands (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but the VHF Aeronautical Mobile band is from 108 to 137 mhz plus some military use 142 mhz. There is also a UHF band used by the military which is something like roughly 230 to 400 mhz.
Many recievers are available which work on 108 - 137, but try Flight Equipment | Pilot Supplies | Pilot Shop | Aviation Headsets (http://www.transair.co.uk) for a specialist one.

[soaringhigh650]

Matt.

A lot of light aircraft fly in uncontrolled airspace which means they can go anywhere they want in this space without talking to, or filing flight plans with air traffic.

Light aircraft occasionally enters controlled airspace and talks to air traffic if there is a safety reason to do so, such as for flying inside cloud or operating around the arrival and departures area of an airport.

This is similar to joe bloggs driving his car down a road. He doesn't necessarily want to be looked at or followed by anyone unless there is a safety reason to do so, such as the cameras and sensors used to activate traffic lights at crossroads.

[crispey]

Matt

Chevron's right but you can get hold of a general purpose scanner receiver which includes the airband frequencies.Airband is on AM by the way not FM so you need to be sure the receiver has this mode.Most have the FM broadcast band too so they are handy for general listening.

Yupiteru is a very good make and Ebay is a good bet to find one.I live quite close to you and there is plenty to listen to round here.I quite like The Boot and Slipper too!

[mat777]

thanks for the advice everyone!

crispey - once I have some cash again (other hobbies are rapidly draining my wallet) I might well invest in one of those.

the B&S is indeed rather good - and I presume you know of Ashcroft runway as well?

[ZOOKER]

Ashcroft Farm 'Fly-in'? Bryan's Landings?
A saturday morning duty on 119.4, many years ago.
AAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!! :}

[NacelleStrake]

121.5 was a lot more accomodating......119.4 ;)

[DC10RealMan]

Mat777.

There is a Soviet Yak single engined advanced trainer based at Sleap which may fit the description of your interesting aeroplane. It certainly zooms about a lot around the North Shropshire and South Cheshire area.

Pilots operating in the Manchester Low Level Route are not obliged to call Manchester Approach, but just to listen out and use a discreet squawk which enables the Manchester controller to positively identify the aeroplane if it starts to wander outside the corridor and near to Manchester airport.

I fly through the corridor quite often and just listen out so if you were hoping to correlate your sightings with specific radio callsigns on the radio you may be disappointed.

[mat777]

Thanks DC10, that sounds like it would fit the bill - whatever it was didnt sound terribly merlin-like so assuming said Yak is a radial engine then that would fit


Zooker - that made me laugh! mind you... its not the worst thing I've heard about Ashcroft TBH! Being fairly good friends with a girl who lives at the kennels down the same road I have heard a multitude of dodgy allegations.... which I didnt quite believe until a light aircraft came over at about 2am a few weeks ago without appearing to have any lights on

[DC10RealMan]

Mat777.

The Yak does have a large radial engine and it sounds wonderful, particularly when it takes off at full power!