Visual Approach

[lasdoug]

Can anyone provide input-
Can you conduct a VISUAL APPROACH
in a NON RADAR ENVIROMENT

[de facto]

Why couldnt you?:ooh:

[Dream Land]

Well this may not be true everywhere, but a visual approach is normally given in conjunction with a IFR clearance. Most facilities will cooperate, traffic permitting as long as certain weather criteria is present, this weather criteria is airport specific, and radar doesn't play a part. Hopefully an ATC specialist will chime in.

[SuperStinker]

Don't know about the US but in Aus its used all the time in class D non radar airspace. its simply a clearance to descend from a maintained or a "cleared to" level to the runway and it places the responsibility for terrain clearance on the pilot.

[Spitoon]

ICAO PANS-ATM (para 6.5.3.1) says that clearance for an IFR flight to execute a visual approach may be requested by a flight crew or initiated by the controller. The procedure is described for IFR flights and there is no mention of how the control service is provided.

Para 6.5.3.5 talks about separation and says 'For successive visual approaches, radar or nonradar separation shall be maintained until the pilot of a succeeding aircraft reports having the preceding aircraft in sight. The aircraft shall then be instructed to follow and maintain own separation from the preceding aircraft....

This clearly suggests to me that visual approaches were not expected to be limited to radar controlled environments when the procedure was written. The document does include a caveat that 'Controllers shall exercise caution in initiating a visual approach when there is reason to believe that the flight
crew concerned is not familiar with the aerodrome and its surrounding terrain'. This might be interpreted by some States as requiring radar monitoring of some sort to provide assurance of terrain clearance but, presumably, what the controllers' responsibilities are this would be described in national or local procedures.

For myself, I have cleared IFR aircraft for visual approaches in controlled airspace whenever the crew asked for it and the traffic situation was suitable. I don't know why but in my operational days in the State where I worked the controller was not permitted to initiate the request for a visual approach.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

In the UK the use of radar has no bearing on visual approaches so they may be carried out whether or not the airfield is radar equipped.

[poldek77]

You don't need radar to make visual but there is a slight difference: under radar control you are vectored for visual until you declare runway in sight - then ATC clears you for approach, in non-radar environment you need to report ground contact.

[blissbak]

@Poldek
There is no such difference because you can perform a "classic visual" in radar environment too .

[poldek77]

There is no such difference because you can perform a "classic visual" in radar environment too.

You're right. I have mistaken "vectoring for visual" and "classic visual" - both with radar.

[towerguy]

not a problem - worked non radar procedural control and used to use it all the time. It had to be requested by the pilot - not initiated by the controller - and you could put any other riders on it as well ie cleared visual approach rwy xx , join via xyz, and even maintain xxxx level until xyz. It just means terrain avoidance becomes the pilot responsibility, and tracking unless told otherwise. With regard to other traffic, some other form of sep is required until visual sep is achieved and then it becomes the pilots respons. for spacing and even wake turb. (helpful suggestions are still a good idea both to help the pilot and avoid nasty surprises- both for them and yourself).

requirement to request is - by day - to be able to navigate visually having the ground or water in sight - no requirement to have runway or even airport in sight.
by night - pilot must have runway lights in sight - not just approach or identifiers - but runway lights.