View Full Version : Rotorheads Photo Book
Will you buy? (Vote 'yes' in the poll!) Poll closes 20th December 2011
We've negotiated a price for a Rotorheads book - provisional title Rotorheads Around The World unless anyone has a better suggestion!
It will cost around £20 (USD 30) plus postage for a large-format, glossy, 100-page album featuring some of the gorgeous pictures which have appeared on this thread over the years.
There's quite a lot of work involved, and before we get stuck in, we need to know how many copies you would be prepared to buy. So vote 'yes' to the poll question if you would buy a book, or multiple books. If we get enough interest, we'll go ahead and start the publishing process. It's not going to be ready by Christmas! Maybe next Christmas though....
We can't just take pictures off the RATW thread though - for printing, they need to be at their original resolution, and that means big files. The next step will be to set up an online file drop and to start asking contributors to send original files - preferably by email - together with captions and permission to publish, and their names (or Pprune usernames if they prefer).
We are particularly keen to hear from photographers who want to get their pictures into print. Send me a PM!
Benet
Whirlygig
6th Dec 2011, 00:43
I'd be interested in one copy but please be aware that, on JetBlast, there was a "rumpus" when a Ppruner wanted to publish a book, asked for money up front and no book was forthcoming.
Cheers
Whirls
Don't worry, I'm not going to take anyone's money until there's an actual stack of physical books, some time in the future... Maybe a photo of the stack will help?
Benet
Bravo73
6th Dec 2011, 12:51
Out of interest, is it still the intention for the proceeds from this to go to a charity or worthy cause of some description?
I will need to cover my costs, but I'm open to suggestions for the rest!
toptobottom
6th Dec 2011, 22:39
I'm up for it and after some awesome air to air camera work in Plymouth recently, I can vouch for Benet's credibility. Great cameraman and top chap :ok:
compressor stall
7th Dec 2011, 04:12
There are services where one uploads the book to a book publisher's website, then joe public can order them. Make Your Own Book, Create a Book Online, Custom Books (http://www.blurb.com) is one of them. That way, no one's collecting money in advance etc.
That's true, but all the online services I've seen so far are several times more expensive than the old-fashioned print works in my town!
Helinut
7th Dec 2011, 19:47
It may also be difficult to raise money for charity using the online outfits. It would be nice to think that some deserving charity benefited from this idea.
Bravo73
8th Dec 2011, 14:36
I don't know if I speak for any others but I would only be willing to buy a copy if all the proceeds/profits did go to a charity of some sort.
Why not combine it with a selection of tales and yarns?, there have been some stunningly funny posts on this forum - I'm thinking of SASless' advice on flying in areas containing bears and the many AAC stories :ok:
Heliport
8th Dec 2011, 20:59
B73 I don't know if I speak for any others but I would only be willing to buy a copy if all the proceeds/profits did go to a charity of some sort.
I agree.
H.
Benet
10th Dec 2011, 08:42
I agree that it would be nice to support a charity through this effort, and suggest Fly2help (http://www.fly2help.org/)
Sadly, money doesn't grow on trees around me, and I will need to cover my costs, but I will arrange for 10% of the total proceeds to go to this cause.
Moreover, if any generous Ppruners step up to the plate to cover printing costs and distribution, then I would be delighted to give the entire proceeds to our chosen charity.
I am in the process of setting up a special mailbox for photographers to contribute their work, together with a copyright release statement and any captions and credits they can add - I hope that every picture will tell a story!
Savoia
10th Dec 2011, 09:50
Not that I wish to express Sarkozian loathing for the British but .. a British charity as the sole recipient for a diverse international contributor base? http://www.facebookforums.net/smiley/thumbsdown.gif
Benet
10th Dec 2011, 14:11
Oops, I should have seen that objection coming!
I'm not going to try to be the United Nations here. We'll print the book, offer it at a price, and make the charity part optional. Then you can go with the chosen charity, or save some cash and donate it to your own favourite charity. Or not donate at all, if you're feeling flinty...
Benet
11th Dec 2011, 15:04
Photographers:
If you want to see your picture in print, looking lovely, please email it to me at
[email protected]
Bear in mind that printing will need the best resolution you can manage - certainly no picture should be smaller than 1MB and you may have to use several emails to send several pictures!
Please copy and paste the following text into your email, and fill in as much detail as possible - names, dates and stories all help the pictures come to life.
Thank you!
I allow Benet Allen to use the attached photograph(s) for the purpose of publishing a book to be offered for sale principally via the forum at PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org).
--OR--
I release the attached photograph(s) into the public domain via the license at Creative Commons (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
DATE:
CREDIT:
CAPTION:
Heliport
11th Dec 2011, 18:21
We'll print the book, offer it at a price
Will the price be the cost of producing the book
or
cost of producing the book + a profit for you?
H.
Flyting
11th Dec 2011, 19:27
Your release needs to be a bit more specific too. i.e. state the name of the published book and full details of what the pics will be used for only...
I release the attached photograph(s) into the public domain via the license at Creative Commons (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
is a bit open for you to use the pics for what ever you want.
Savoia
11th Dec 2011, 20:10
This needs to be managed professionally as a reflection upon the mainly professional contributions which comprise PPRuNe's most successful thread and as Flyting has mentioned; photographer's permissions should be specifically limited to use in the proposed publication.
Why are people making these comments along with concerns over the management of potential profits? Here's my interpretation: The material has accumulated over many years and is the product of numerous and diverse contributions. If a publisher employed a photographer to go travel the world, snap away at helos and return with their own material that would be one thing - they could and should do whatever they want. But, this is not this case. The material has been assembled voluntarily with the most 'innocent' of intentions .. so share experiences with fellow members of the Rotorheads community. It is only reasonable therefore that those who have followed the development of RATW should be keen to protect contributors from potential exploitation.
Some may be wondering about profit. Say you make £7 clear profit per book and sell 1,000 copies .. you have £7,000. Not a great deal of money but .. say the publication is a success and sells 5,000 copies with a £4.50 profit margin .. now you are up into twenty plus thousand. Still not a great deal of money but it is not reasonable to expect members of the Rotorheads community to simply sit back and watch any individual reap the rewards of what in reality is the product of other peoples efforts.
If it were up to me I would:
1) Openly publish a full statement of account once the first print run is completed.
2) Set up a 'Rotorheads' account into which all profit is placed.
3) Allow the 'Rotorheads Fraternity' to decide (perhaps via a poll made by members of more than 5 years standing [or other criteria]) in response to suggestions made by the same.
Regarding charities etc. allow me to share my own sentiments. I'm a firm believer that charity begins at home. In fact if this principle were applied more frequently less 'external' charity would be required.
I would like to see any profits (little or large) going directly to people connected to this forum. Is their an ex-Rotorheads member who has perished in the line of duty? Does he/she have surviving family? If so what is their situation - are they in need of assistance?
What about our Moderators. I only learned this year that the work they do is voluntary. Are they okay - do they have everything they need to carry-out their work? Could a contribution (of any kind) help them? And there are doubtless many other causes but .. I would like to see it stay within the community which fostered this material. But .. that's just me.
BestoftheWest
12th Dec 2011, 01:38
A logical solution would be get the final quote, which could be for example $2000 Pounds. Anything over that goes to an air ambulance charity that all members of the group here vote on. I would say pick the UK based ones since the majority of members are in the UK.
Since all members here have one thing at heart, and thats the support of the helo industry, an air ambulance charity would be the ideal recipient. Or even choose three or four and spread the profits around but then you end up with only giving a small amount to some of them rather than a larger amount to one of them. Just go with whichever one gets the most votes on Rotorheads.
The problem with deciding which survivors family gets it is what about the other ones whose loved ones have passed away, why are they less deserving than others as my guess is we all know someone, or more than one, who has died in this industry, and they are just as deserving as each other.
Just two .02 cents worth.
BOTW
Gordy
12th Dec 2011, 02:48
the majority of members are in the UK
Maybe...maybe not.. I think maybe there are more memebrs in the UK than any other country, but if you add up all the other countries it will outnumber those from the UK.. It matters not, if nothing else, the majority of the pictures are NOT in the UK...
I'm with Savoia...
Regarding charities etc. allow me to share my own sentiments. I'm a firm believer that charity begins at home. In fact if this principle were applied more frequently less 'external' charity would be required.
I would like to see any profits (little or large) going directly to people connected to this forum. Is their an ex-Rotorheads member who has perished in the line of duty? Does he/she have surviving family? If so what is their situation - are they in need of assistance?
I could care less which country he/she came from...lets help our own....
1) Openly publish a full statement of account once the first print run is completed.
2) Set up a 'Rotorheads' account into which all profit is placed.
3) Allow the 'Rotorheads Fraternity' to decide (perhaps via a poll made by members of more than 5 years standing [or other criteria]) in response to suggestions made by the same.
Excellent idea..
BestoftheWest
12th Dec 2011, 03:22
I would like to see any profits (little or large) going directly to people connected to this forum. Is their an ex-Rotorheads member who has perished in the line of duty? Does he/she have surviving family? If so what is their situation - are they in need of assistance?
Ok then Gordy, I know of three people connected to this group who have died, and you probably know others, so how is it decided who is a more worthy cause than someone else.
Just wondering.
Savoia
12th Dec 2011, 07:26
Ok then Gordy, I know of three people connected to this group who have died, and you probably know others, so how is it decided who is a more worthy cause than someone else.
Yes but are there Rotorheads members who have perished? If not then of the widows surviving from those who were 'connected' to the community I am certain it is possible to determine if one or more of them is totally flat broke and struggling etc. It doesn't take that much investigation from close friends etc. to be able to ascertain a basic picture of what's going on. The exact process of decision-making can be determined but its the principle were are discussing here.
Bottom line .. a) project cost transparency .. b) profits into a 'Rotorheads' account .. c) disbursement of profits agreed with consensus of Rotorheads community.
John R81
12th Dec 2011, 19:22
Benet
Good on you for taking the initiative. I will take a couple of copies (have voted). If you are intending to give the profit to a charity - you are a great guy! I am happy to trust that you will do the right thing, pick a couple of good causes, etc. I am not intersted in seeing the accounts.
I am looking forward to seeing the finished article. I will dig through my photos to see if anything is worthy; the only thing I can think of (as being sufficiently unusual and high quality shot) is the wreckage of my 120 after her crash at Redhill. Would you want something like that?
John
Benet
12th Dec 2011, 20:24
Thanks John... I hope there are others out there with your attitude: so far I've come up against a lot of worthy talk and some open cynicism, but your encouragement is a rare thing. Maybe I will see this project through!
I will definitely give a chunk of it to charity, although with a print run of 200-300 (on present poll results) we're not talking about a huge amount of money. I also intend to cover my costs, and don't intend to spend my time messing around with accounts. I stand by my earlier commitments - 10% of takings unless someone steps up to cover my costs, in which case, 100% of takings.
So far, nobody has offered to stump up the costs, but I live in hope. In the meantime - and for the next three months - the email box is open and your photos are welcome at
[email protected]
I wouldn't expect photographers to contribute their work unless there was a charitable cause, but I'm a bit despondent about the shortage of suggestions. One charity I support regularly is the Disasters Emergency Committee - not directly related to aviation, but very fast to the scene when water, blankets and tents are really needed and a worthy cause.
John R81
12th Dec 2011, 21:33
Out of interest - what are the costs?
Senior Pilot
12th Dec 2011, 21:54
I'd like to set a couple of 'ground rules' if this project is to continue under the auspices of a Rotorheads thread.
I (naturally?) assumed when approached that this would be a not-for-profit project with Benet offering his talents to co-ordinate the photos and publishing. I would not see it otherwise.
I completely agree that the profits should go to charity or charities. If it were to be an in house Rotorheads charity then my initial thought would be something like a donation to GAPAN for their Scholarships, or similarly to Dennis K's Scholarship. I accept the regional issue in this, and understand that it should be debated here.
Finally, the concept is RATW photos from the existing thread. If they aren't on the thread, they aren't in the book := The older photos may have resolution issues, but Benet will be able to advise and use his experience here.
unstable load
17th Dec 2011, 05:34
I'll have one for sure! Great idea, Benet, and as far as I am concerned, I don't mind where the money goes from a geographical point of view, but I do agree with Senior Pilot that it could go to one of the scholarship funds.
havoc
18th Dec 2011, 01:47
Since this a a global effort any thought to approaching an established organization such as "National Geographic" or a European publication to do an inital story "Views from the cockpit" to lay the foundation of a publication and generate a wider audience?
This may help with costs as well(?)
SASless
18th Dec 2011, 12:27
If the book was sold at cost to members only.....then no need for the argument over which charity. If copies were sold on the open market to non-members and the total profit were donated to some charity selected by a forum vote then that should answer the questions in my mind.
Donating Ten Percent of the profit to a charity seems a bit mean.
Benet
19th Dec 2011, 01:20
Frankly, I'm losing the will to live. Or at least, spend hours rounding up the original contributors to this thread to get them to re-contribute their work at print resolution. You can't do this just by scraping the pictures off the internet.
SASless, I'm talking about 10% of the takings, not 10% of the profits. If you pay £25 for the book, then £2.50 goes to charity. Does everybody mind if I make what might be a couple of hundred pounds as a reward for the necessary work? I haven't been inundated with offers to help, or pay the costs, and I'm beginning to understand why!
Peter-RB
19th Dec 2011, 06:44
Benet.
Good morning from the rainy frozen North of the UK, I will take 5 copies as soon as the job is done, and if any more are needed to be delivered to people here in the North I will sort that out for you.
Many regards
Peter Russell-Blackburn
Lancashire
formerly VfrpilotPB
Savoia
19th Dec 2011, 07:02
Frankly, I'm losing the will to live. Or at least, spend hours rounding up the original contributors to this thread to get them to re-contribute their work at print resolution.
Hmm .. I have two images which I am soon to post on the Nostalgia Thread. Just to get the photographer's permission and copies (without watermark) has taken six months.
I would imagine that to source the material for the production of a 'Rotorheads book' would take nothing less than 18 months to accomplish .. or were you not aware of the extent of the commitment likely to be involved in a project like this?
I have talked to 2 publishers of small book runs I know personally & the opinion is the same as Benet, you require high resolution, a release form for the book, with a royalty if used for any other purpose.
The amount of work is much larger time consuming than just printing & will take a huge amount of effort.
I would presume Benit is a commercial printer ? who is prepared to give time & effort free or at a reduced rate.
Should have said HUGE amount of work.
toptobottom
20th Dec 2011, 11:58
Personally, I have no objections to Benet making a few quid on what would undoubtedly be a ball-breakingly difficult task of successfully delivering such a book. If there's some cash for a charity, some cash for Benet and a nice book full of high-res pictures for RATW'ers to enjoy and share, everyone wins. What's wrong with that?! However, I don't think the project will be viable unless there is a bit more commitment from the Rotorheads; a couple of hundred books will probably not even be worthwhile and is hardly likely to change anyone's lifestyle!
What are the costs likely to be? I know a good printer who could print and bind at 'mate's rates', but I think we'd need a simple business plan showing what the minimum volume would need to be to make it worth doing at all.