Pilot Wrist watches...

[RyanRs]

My girlfriend is going to treat me to a watch for my xmas present :ooh: but tbh i dont know the first thing about watches and could use a little advice!

Basically, i am nearing the Qualifying cross country stage of my PPL training and obviously a watch of some sort is required for navigation and i am currently making do with a girls pink £5 jobbie that is pure crap tbh! I have seen the Citizen Red-arrows range of pilot watches, they look very nice and appear to have a lot of functions on them, i would love to own one however £400~500 is 'in my opinion' bloomin expensive for a watch and i know my gf cannot afford that much on one! My instructor tells me that all these pilot specific watches are a waste of money and all i need is a reliable and accurate watch that literally does not much else but 'Tell the time'! Now i can see where he is coming from but still, they are nice watches and if the features are actually worth the extra, i could always pay some towards it to get one.

What is everyone's opinions on the Pilot specific watches? specially the Citizen skyhawk/Red arrows range? Do you really find yourself using the built in wizz wheel / slide rule whilst in flight? does the watch actually become a very handy piece of kit? Or in reality does everyone who buys these, buy them and never actually used them for anything more than telling the time!!?

Heres a website with the Red-arrows range:
Buy Citizen Red Arrows Watches | Official UK Dealer | First Class Watches (http://www.firstclasswatches.co.uk/citizen-red-arrows-watches-c-35_633.html)

Thanks for the advice!
Ryan

[GeeWhizz]

I don't think I'd find a pilot specific watch any more useful than my normal daily watch. I found it much more difficult to fly, navigate, and lift my sleeve to establish the time. That said, my normal daily watch would be accurate if my normal tools fail and can't do the job.

So what do I use I hear you ask?

One of these... (http://www.pooleys.com/prod_detail.cfm?product_id=194&PageNum_rs_product=1&product_category_id=0&product_sub_category_id=0)

...Attached to one of these... (http://www.pooleys.com/prod_detail.cfm?product_id=195&PageNum_rs_product=1&product_category_id=0&product_sub_category_id=0)

...Screwed to one of these. (http://www.pooleys.com/prod_detail.cfm?product_id=114&PageNum_rs_product=1&product_category_id=0&product_sub_category_id=0)

(Disclaimer: All linked to the same website for ease of hyperlinking. I'm not suggesting that this company should or should not be used, nor advertising on their behalf)

Also a simple easy to use and view stopwatch is very useful later if you intend to enter the world of instrument flight (ironically the stopwatch becomes useful when the instruments aren't so useful!).

That's my two penneth :)

GW

[Pilot DAR]

For heaven's sake, if you are actually going to use it while flying, make sure it's face and hands are clear and distinct, not cluttered with silly amounts of other symbols and indicators. If you can't quickly discern the necessary information, it's really not much use!

[Genghis the Engineer]

I do like hands on my watch, preferably illuminated ones. Having a stopwatch built in is nice, but not vital.

I use a 16 year old Seiko military - the RAF issue version in other words. Arguably much more than you need to spend, but for a pilot watch quite cheap, and exceptionally practical. II'm likely to keep using this, which I've become very fond of over the years, for many years to come - on which basis I'd recommend it; and yes, you can still buy them.

But ultimately a 20 quid Casio would work just as well.

G

[Pilot.Lyons]

Agree with above post.
My wife bought me an all singing all dancing flight computer watch... So many calculations can be done but only if your sitting in a chair at home!
Big, clear if not dont bother. In fact i dont ever use it for ppl at all!

[RTN11]

I got mine in Argos for about £20.

It's a Lorus, has a luminous green face which glows very well in the dark, all the numbers are very clear, as are the minute indentations for accurate time telling. I've met at least 10 other pilots who also wear this watch, as it is so clear and simple. It also gives day and date. I reset it about once a month, and it only drifts seconds from the GPS time in my aircraft.

The watch with the flight computer round the edge may make you feel more like a pilot, and show off to your mates, but in the cockpit keep it simple stupid!

[BackPacker]

For me, it's a 20+-year old analog watch with no frills whatsoever.

The only "aviation feature" I'd be interested in is some sort of dual time mechanism for UTC. Not necessary, but handy sometimes.

Remember that you are only going to need to do timekeeping for your x-country legs. And on your exam those have a margin of error of +/- 5 minutes. Timed turns, holds and so forth require more accuracy but are not part of the PPL syllabus.

"Aviation" watches from e.g. Citizen and Breitling are not so much "functional" but "lifestyle". As far as function is concerned, your girls pink £5 jobbie will do just fine until well past the PPL level.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Old Pprune thread on a related subject (http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-288039.html).

Current, near-identical, equivalent of the much loved old RAF issue watch.

But repeating what we've all said, a £20 job from Argos will work fine - but this is a very nice reliable watch fine for flying, and looks okay with a suit as well. Strangely a fraction of the price of most of the watches being sold as "pilot watches" - which by and large no serious pilot would be seen dead wearing.

Incidentally one thing I would not be without is the "Animal" velcro wrist-strap on my watch (about the fifth I think, they usually last about 3 years), which allows me to take the watch off and wrap it around a convenient bit of aircraft structure in front of me - usually the yoke.

G

[4015]

I own a Citizen skyhawk series, I've had it for 3 years.

The slide rule does come in quite useful during flight, can save scrabbling for the flight computer. After a while the information is easy to find on the face.

It's a nice watch, reliable and doesn't need looking after.

Is it a bit much for PPL? Possibly. The only in flight function I use is the stopwatch, but the good bit is that this runs with the time still visible and UTC visible too, whilst still having the slide rule available.

I'd still choose the same again, but I wouldn't worry about needing all of those functions, at PPL you can happily get away with something that just tells you the time!

4015

[znww5]

Personally, at those prices I'd ask for a £20 watch and a night qualification!

[Unusual Attitude]

I was very lucky earlier this year when my wife inherited quite a bit of money and decided to treat me to a Breitling Emergency which I've always wanted but could never bring myself to buy!

Normally, my idea of a pilot watch is something cheap, easy to read and very robust but I have to say its nice knowing I have a 121.5mhz transmitter strapped to my wrist if it all goes wrong. Granted its only for homing purposes but since I regularly fly over the Scottish wilderness its potentially a handy thing to have....

I also have a Tissott - T touch with all its wonderful functions but the only one I could see being of use to a pilot is the compass if you find yourself downed and roaming the hills looking for civilisation.

Other than that I've generally been flying with a Citizen divers watch with a rubber strap, thats taken quite a bit of abuse over the years however still looks like new, is very clear to see day or night and runs great.

Regards

UA

[Human Factor]

If you want historic value, try and find a Cartier as they effectively invented the pilot's watch for Alberto Santos-Dumont.

... its nice knowing I have a 121.5mhz transmitter strapped to my wrist if it all goes wrong. Granted its only for homing purposes but since I regularly fly over the Scottish wilderness its potentially a handy thing to have....

Just don't trigger it by mistake, otherwise it generates a yellow helicopter option which is available at extra cost. :}

[Zulu Alpha]

Lorus make a titanium watch with a military cloth strap.

It comes with a white face or a black one. Very clear numbers and hands.

The Lorus mechanism is made by Seiko.

Costs around £30-35.

No need to spend more unless you want to impress people down the pub.

As people have said, a stopwatch on your clipboard or on the aircraft yoke is probably more useful than a watch.

[BackPacker]

Just don't trigger it by mistake,

Considering that triggering it requires unscrewing the end caps and pulling out the +/- 70 cm antenna wires (1/4 wavelength of 121.5 MHz) to create the dipole, I don't think "triggering by mistake" is a risk factor here. (Although "triggering while drunk" or "triggering by drunk friend" could be an issue.)

The bigger issue is that the rescue services/satellites are not routinely monitoring 121.5 anymore. So you're at the mercy of an accidently passing over airliner which happens to have 121.5 standby. And they typically don't have homing equipment.

You'd need the 406 MHz Breitling (which doesn't exist, AFAIK) if you want a true PLB.

[Unusual Attitude]

Considering that triggering it requires unscrewing the end caps and pulling out the +/- 70 cm antenna wires (1/4 wavelength of 121.5 MHz) to create the dipole, I don't think "triggering by mistake" is a risk factor here. (Although "triggering while drunk" or "triggering by drunk friend" could be an issue.)

The bigger issue is that the rescue services/satellites are not routinely monitoring 121.5 anymore. So you're at the mercy of an accidently passing over airliner which happens to have 121.5 standby. And they typically don't have homing equipment.

You'd need the 406 MHz Breitling (which doesn't exist, AFAIK) if you want a true PLB.

Personally if something goes bang the first thing I will be doing is putting out a Mayday to whichever service I'm speaking to giving my rough position, that will be enough to instagate a rescue. Any SAR chopper dispatched will be able to home into a signal on 121.5mhz no problem at all which is all I'm worried about.

[mikehallam]

After far too many years having to push my sleeve up to read my wrist watch - it takes both hands - my brother bought me a cheapo modern pocket watch.

Now simply mounted on the front of the panel, one can read off & jot down the time for the essential map & knee pad "nav aid" as needed.

mike hallam.

[BackPacker]

Next time you're in a rental aircraft, take a good look around the panel.

Most panels include a regular analog clock (not always set to the proper time though), but also various avionics are able to tell you the time or act as a stopwatch. For a GPS it's obvious but a reasonably modern digital transponder will also include a flight timer. And I remember having seen some sort of clock/timer function on an ADF too.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Next time you're in a rental aircraft, take a good look around the panel.

Most panels include a regular analog clock (not always set to the proper time though), but also various avionics are able to tell you the time or act as a stopwatch. For a GPS it's obvious but a reasonably modern digital transponder will also include a flight timer. And I remember having seen some sort of clock/timer function on an ADF too.

True, although as somebody who (a) often wants to know the time,and (b) flies multiple aeroplanes - I like having a timepiece that I'm always familiar with at a glance.

G

[piperarcher]

I have a 'Rotary' watch, I cant see what its name is as the writing is too small. It was about £100 (though reduced) from £200 in last years xmas sale. It has a rotating dial, and a stop watch. However, the most useful and exciting thing about it is that it has a picture of some wings, and as a pilot, thats all I want :).

I dont use a whizz wheel for flight planning on the ground. There are electronic pilot calculators which are much more friendly, or pieces of software or websites that will help with most basic flight planning calculations. I cant ever imagine myself trying to squint at a tiny watch and attempt to perform some whizz wheel calculation, and fly the plane at the same time. The watch is only good for time functions (brakes off, brakes on and ETA calculations). A stopwatch is very useful for diversions, holds, procedural approaches (if and when you do IMC training), however I prefer something simple to operate, with relatively large numbers. To that end we have a small basic timer / stopwatch mounted on the yoke, or I use the timer function on our Garmin digital transponder. Timers on watches are too fiddly.

IMO, a pilot watch with lots of functions, is just something that is used aesthetically.

[Intercepted]

I would recommend a good quality analouge watch, possibly with a separate hand for UTC. Any more functionality, and I see it as a distraction.

When I did my IMCr I started off using a stopwatch, but after a while I found it easier to use my analouge watch and not pressing any buttons at all.

[Rod1]

I own a Citizen Skyhawk. I have had it for many years and am very pleased with it. It is clear, the s/w works well and the power indicator removes the risk of it stopping unexpectedly.

Get the titanium version of you will need to do a new W & B just for the watch.

Rod1

[Neptunus Rex]

A watch with a Tachymeter can be very useful. Many moons ago, when flying Shacks from Ice Station Kilo, when we came 'off task' over northern waters, I would use the Tachymeter to measure groundspeed, using the Saxa Vord Tacan. I would then calculate ETA ISK and tell it to the crew. It was always very accurate, much to the consternation of our two, very senior, Navigators.

One night in the bar, post-flight, they asked me how I did it. When I showed them my watch and explained, they both roared with laughter and bought me a pint - each.

[Dave Gittins]

I've had a Citizen Eco-drive Skyhawk since my wife got it for me for Christmas about 8 or 9 years ago and still love it.

The multi city function and ease of changing from one to another or to GMT is great as is the GMT hand.

Have never used the whizz-wheel and it's so long since my PPL I have forgotten how to (anyway it's seized up). The phot-cell charging means I've never had to buy a battery and it keeps time to about 10 secs a year.

Only downside is changing all the cities times twice a year depending whether or not they observe daylight saving.

Would buy the same again ... and by trawling the internet, got it about £100 cheaper than the high street.

[ShyTorque]

I've been flying for my living since 1977. During my military career we were required to put troops on the ground at a grid reference within fifteen seconds of a given time. I've never once found the need for a watch with anything other than one big hand, one small hand and a second hand.

The date is useful once a day when filling out the tech log for the first time but these days I can get that off my mobile phone.

I now fly using a basic and simple Citzen Eco-drive titanium watch (never needs a new battery), but not the aviation one.

I was given a brand new Breitling Navigator some years ago (then worth about £1200?) but I found the claws on the rotating bezel snagged on my jumper cuff and pulled threads, so I never use it when flying.

I would agree with those above who say that if you need a stopwatch for the type of flying you do, buy a simple, straightforward but separate stop watch. Digital or analogue, whatever you prefer, but make sure it's simple and reliable to operate because the one thing that ruins your split second timing is pressing the control knob then after an unknown number of seconds finding it didn't actually start timing.

[peterh337]

Most "pilot watches" are a total waste of time.

Most are not usable because they have a 60-minute stopwatch minute dial, which is too fine to read easily. One needs a 30-minute dial.

And one does not need to do timing in what I call normal flying. It is only on flight tests (flying NDB holds etc) that a stopwatch is required. For that I have used a cheap yellow plastic thing, about 3" in diameter with big buttons, which hangs around my neck. The rest of the time one uses radio navigation (GPS usually) which gives you a continuous track guidance, with distance to the next waypoint, so timing is not required. I never time anything during any flights I do myself.

I have used a wrist watch stopwatch, in my US IR, and it was more trouble than it was worth because it was too fiddly. That was actually a nice watch - a Seiko "pilot watch", like the one currently sold by Transair. It packed up (as those Seiko pilot watches tend to do, apparently) and was fixed under warranty. I got rid of it in the end because the fabric straps lasted poorly and cost a packet.

[Barcli]

170a ?:O:O:O:O:O

[SEP Flyer]

I am surprised that training aircraft do not have a built in, clear and easy to use stopwatch/clock (ideally with a moveable bug) alongside the other basic flying instruments as standard. Accurate timekeeping was part of my navigation training I seem to remember, which is a rather major part in learning to fly!

But for my PPL, I bought a simple £35 Casio digital watch with stopwatch function, as I found my analogue watch had a cluttered dial and was not easy to read in flight.

[Human Factor]

I have a nice Seiko pilot's watch (with the whizz-wheel bezel), which I've had for nearly twenty years. Never missed a beat and still water tight. I have it serviced in the Jewellery Quarter in Birmingham. £6 for a battery and new seal!

[Jhieminga]

I bought a Timex at the local Sears when my instructor insisted (he wouldn't let me go solo without a watch on my wrist). 9 years on it's still doing its job and I'm quite happy that I got the combined digital/analogue face as I can have the hands on local time while the digital readout stays on UTC.

(looks a lot like this one) (http://www.timex.com/Timex-Metal-Combo/dp/B003QFXQ5W?ie=UTF8&field_availability=-1&searchKeywords=*&field_watch_movement_type=Analog%20and%20Digital&field_keywords=*&class=quickView&searchRank=salesrank&field_product_site_launch_date_utc=-1y&id=Timex%20Metal%20Combo&field_browse=236545011&searchSize=12&searchPage=1&searchNodeID=236545011&refinementHistory=watch_movement_type%2Csize_code%2Cband_mat erial_type%2Cdial_color%2Cprice&searchBinNameList=size_code%2Cwatch_movement_type%2Cband_mat erial_type%2Cdial_color%2Cprice)

[Frelon]

What about this (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41B%2BO0VAEkL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) then??

Does the job perfectly, but does nothing for your street cred with your mates down at the pub!!

[rmcb]

2 watches; one glued to my clipboard (UTC) the other on my wrist (local). Both analogue, dark face white hands, sweeping secondhand, quartz.

Anything else clutters the face and my brain.

Both £12 from Argos.

Spend your squeeze's money on a decent ANR headset, not watches/epaulettes/ray-bans/leather flight bags. The former will allow you to hear her nag, the latter is a free pass into the the tosser camp.

[airborne_artist]

Any make you like and the price you can afford, so long as it's big. Saves having to buy epaulettes, and assures people you meet in bars that you are the real deal :E

[grafity]

One of these for flying and one of these for when your telling people about being a pilot :ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

One of these (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Casio-F-91W-1YER-Resin-Digital-Watch/dp/B000J34HN4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323455863&sr=8-1) for flying and one of these (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Breitling-Navitimer-World-H24322-1012/dp/B004R0X1XC/ref=sr_1_5?s=watch&ie=UTF8&qid=1323455973&sr=1-5) for when your telling people about being a pilot :ok:

Disagree on both counts.

The first lacks hands, and if I had the money for the second I'd buy myself another aeroplane (or treat myself to a ME/IR and then go on holiday with the change!).

G

[jxk]

I agree Casio F-91W is the best, if only the straps would outlast the batteries. They have been declared iconic according to the Sunday Times a week or two back. As standard they are: waterproof, accurate, 12/24 hour format, day and date, stop watch, alarm, all for less than a tenner. Fab - u - lous.

[grafity]

Disagree on both counts.

The first lacks hands, and if I had the money for the second I'd buy myself another aeroplane (or treat myself to a ME/IR and then go on holiday with the change!).

G

Don't worry Genghis, I'd find it hard to spend a 10th of that on a watch. What's the facination with hands?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Don't worry Genghis, I'd find it hard to spend a 10th of that on a watch. What's the facination with hands?

Aesthetic preference I suppose - at heart I'm a bit old fashioned.

G

[FullWings]

Casio G-Shock for me. Solar powered, radio time signal updating, light, comfy strap, UTC & local at the same time, lots of colours & styles (I think all-black is best), bright long-lasting phosphor on big hands as well as digital displays, wear it in the shower, survives a drop that you wouldn't.

Oh, and I don't think there are any fake ones!

[peterh337]

Sorry Barcli... failed the 170A while going like a one armed bandit keeping the plane straight in turbulence, on NDB holds and inbounds. The examiner took no hostages, too. I've decided to drop it now and maybe have another go in 2013 or 2014. See what develops. The exams are good for 2 years. Spain suddenly looks attractive - should have followed everybody's bl00dy advice and gone down to FIS for a week :)

[Genghis the Engineer]

Silvaire - apart from maybe 2 countries in the world, all ATIS is GMT, and all altimeter settings are in mb / hPa. You justy live in an out of touch backwater that is slowly catching up.

G

[Fuji Abound]

If she has come into quite a bit of money i would recommend a patek; its the only watch that will appreciate, will last a few lifetimes and are utterly gorgeous. As they say you never own a patek you are just the custodian for the next generation. Oh and the dial is simple, clear and none of that fangled quartz.

[Piltdown Man]

I use one of these (http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/2544502/Trail/searchtext%3ETIMEX+EXPEDITION.htm). It's cheap. It's accurate. It's clear and quick to read. It's very light. You won't cry if you break/lose/drop/scratch it etc. and it's even got a light behind the dial.

PM

[Genghis the Engineer]

That's the Euro perspective in some quarters, for sure. But Euro GA talk is demonstrably not Euro GA action. The airport I operate out of will have 650 GA operations listening to that ATIS today. Hardly a backwater.

Rigid inflexibility fails almost every time.

We have a thing over here called humour as well!

G

[Ultra long hauler]

Seems like I'm the only one that is flying with a magnetic holder on my centre console, and a bit metal glued to the back of my I-phone........

I may not always have clean hands, but my wrists......are as clean as the pope's white dress!

###Ultra Long Hauler###

[rmcb]

We have a thing over here called humour as well!

Over there humour is spelled wrongly - it's a cultural thang!

Ultra long hauler - I used to do the same until I discovered the discrepency between the standby and DI was caused by the tiny button magnet that barely gripped the 'fridge and not a dodgy gyro.

Sticky backed velcro is far better, IMHO.

Silvaire1 - that is a cracking bit of history you've picked up on; the revolutionary decimal time system from French revolutionary era. Didn't catch on. In an effort for universal disregard for the eternal enemy, please accept and use UTC as a poke in the eye to them!

[Genghis the Engineer]

And remember, UTC is referenced to Greewich, not Paris !

G

[salsaboy]

Yes, Greewich... in Lodon... Egland

:ok:

[hhobbit]

what fullwings says:
Casio G-Shock for me. Solar powered, radio time signal updating, light, comfy strap, UTC & local at the same time, wear it in the shower, survives a drop that you wouldn't. Time zone and daylight saving time is near automatic, and I like not having to open it, well hardly ever, to muck around with batts, and ALWAYS accurate to the second.

I think being solar, radio controlled and shock and waterproof ticks all boxes. Would prefer titanium because it does not react with my skin, but resin is more or less OK.

[rmcb]

And remember, UTC is referenced to Greewich, not Paris !

As agreed in Washington DC, 1884. Merde pour les Francais.

[irish seaplane]

The well known Swiss aviation brand, that sponsors a certain wing walking team ahem.... I know only too well that they keep very poor time. Its a good excuse for being late though.

A functional clear watch will do all you need. If I wanted a fancy aviation watch I'd buy a Bremont. Very cool alternative to the herd.

Irish

[peterh337]

Most mechanical ("automatic" i.e. self winding) watches keep poor time compared to even cheap quartz ones.

Yet people are happily paying fantastic prices for automatic "lifestyle" watches.

This one (http://www.iwc.com/en-us/collection/pilots/IW3799/) is quite nice though :) But this one (http://www.iwc.com/en-us/collection/pilots/IW3717/) would do... Or even this (http://www.watches.co.uk/watch/11613s/iwc-aquatimer-chronograph-cousteau-divers-limited-edition-iw378203/) recently discontinued one (whose buttons are really horrible to operate).

[JW411]

Well, I'm still using a quartz Seiko that I bought on Masirah Island in 1975 and it has never let me down. I think it cost 27 dinars so it doesn't owe me very much!

[BackPacker]

Nobody has thought of getting one with electronic compass or similar - always good to have backups

Might want to get a proper hikers watch then, which includes an altimeter. That's arguably a more useful backup than a compass.

After all, has anybody ever experienced a failure of a magnetic compass? It's got exactly one moving part, suspended in some sort of fluid and it's not moving all that much to start with.

[Captain Smithy]

Forgive me for my cynicism, is it just me or are these so-called "pilot's watches" that cost the same as a 7 year old Ford Focus and yet do exactly the same job as a £19.99 Casio from Argos whilst covered in unintelligible numbers and other waffle/malaise merely for rich* posers?

They're expensive, big, hard to read and look daft. What's the point?

Doubting Smithy

*Or, alternately, heavily in debt posers living far beyond their means

[youngskywalker]

Yes but if we all followed that logic in life then why buy a BMW/Audi/Jaguar etc etc when a Vauxhall Astra would do the same job for considerably less?

Sometimes, just sometimes in life do we not all aspire to owning something 'special' or just 'nice' just for the shear hell of it? And whats wrong with that? It would be a pretty dull life otherwise.

I'd like a Breitling and one day I just might buy one. Would that be a sensible choice? Of course not but I'd rather spend a couple of grand on one of them than having to buy years worth of nappies for a baby or a useless ring for some chick! :E

[GeeWhizz]

I'd rather spend 'a couple grand' on 20 hours airborne, or a new rating or part thereof - log book entries never break, faulter, reduce my 'street cred' or screw up my navigation timings! ;)

[youngskywalker]

Thats why I havnt bought one yet!

[Dan the weegie]

I recently bought a Citizen Skyhawk AT keeps perfect time due to the radio signal, battery will last ages due to the solar poweredness of it, it tells me time in UTC and local at the same time, with hands and with numbers AND it's suitable for Scuba.

To top it all off, it fits my wrist perfectly.

I'm very happy and it didn't cost 13 grand!

[rans6andrew]

my 2 pence worth.

For ALL inside the aircraft time related stuff I use a £2.99 digital stopwatch from Maplins. It has just 3 BIG buttons, large display digits, can be easily operated by touch, can display time of day, has stopwatch, timer and for nights away it has an alarm clock.

Nobody should be flying with their head inside the cockpit for the time it takes to do anything with their Citizen NightHawk. It is a two handed job with the watch off your wrist. I know, I wear one some days. It is great for timing the run and walk regime of my exercise programme as it beeps at the correct time. It is rubbish for reading the timer while running and tricky to do the same while walking.

I also have a couple of Breitling watches and a couple of Seiko watches, all have hands and are great for telling the time of DAY while flying or driving but not so good when light levels fall. They are NOT good for fumbling with while airborne.

As for having the time correct to within a fraction of a second, why? Give or take a minute or two is neither here nor there. If you really want to have the time to that precision then look to your GPS.

Rans6.....

[fujii]

Reminds me of an old story.
A woman gets assaulted on a dark night. When asked by the police if she could describe the attacker she replied "no, it was dark but he was definitely a pilot." When asked how she knew he was definitely a pilot she replied "he had a big watch and he talked about himself all the time!"

[thing]

I use a couple of quid Maplin's stopwatch that dangles nicely off the yoke and a 6.85 Casio wristwatch from Amazon that loses about 3 seconds per month.

Mind you if they sold gold plated shoes somebody would buy them.

[mad_jock]

Backpacker I have had two failures of magnetic compasses.

Once the thing fell off its mount

And the second time the FO by accident belted it with a metal techlog folder and all the fluid pissed out.

And as for watches

I have a eco drive

Watch Details for GMT | Citizen Eco-Drive (http://citizenwatch.com/CUK/English/detail.asp?Country=CUK&Language=English&ModelNumber=BJ9130-05E)

Don't like metal straps
Like analog
like unclutered
Don't like gadgets whizz wheels etc.
GMT hand is a must.
And water proof for swimming pool and shower dunking

Can't be too expensive.

That one comes in for about 100 quid and is comfy decent glow in the dark dial jobs a goodun.

[BackPacker]

Backpacker I have had two failures of magnetic compasses.

In how many hours, and how many backup systems came with the airplane? (I mean, if the FO came as standard with the airplane, I somehow assume it wasn't just day VFR equippped, right?)

[peterh337]

and he talked about himself all the time!

How do you find a pilot among the people at a party?
You don't. He finds you.

A pilot goes on a date. Halfway through he says: "That's enough talking about planes. Now let's talk about me".

Any more?

[mad_jock]

The one that fell off was in a tommy. Which I have 1100 hours SEP. And wasn't really an issue as I was IFR well "I follow roads" and the A9 being the road in question. And the was zero backup apart from looking outthe window and speaking to ATC.

And in the one the FO killed 3400 hours but it is as much use as a chocolate fireguard because it gets calibrated with both generators off, windshield heating heat off etc. Which realistically would mean your into a double generator failure or god for bid a double engine failure. But there is no backup as such to it. It backs up two flux valves, gps, ATC. Its main use is for jamming charts behind it when your doing a LPC/OPC to cover up the windscreen for who ever is flying.

[BWBI]

I bought a Breitling look a like in Dubai some years back cost £20 after a lot of haggling! looks the real deal and has got me into places I shouldn't have been since!! Easy to read and has all the fuel weight and other useful calculations on the back identical to the Breitling so excellent for W&B etc. Flight Computer on the front which is accurate and works well.

if it was the real thing would be terrified of losing or breaking it! If you ever go in for buying a fake make sure it's got a Japanese movement as these last for ever! The Chinese are the junk which goe's defunct after a week!

I Wear it every day and it is accurate to the second and has used only one battery in all the time I have had it. One of my better Aviation Buys!

Not interested in any social backlash from buying good quality fake goods!

[peterh337]

There is a fantastic choice of fake watches at Corfu. All the names.

Most of them are not fully functional though. The small dials are mostly just printed on. But for a proper con-job you also need the uniform, surely?

I know a man who lives in Switzerland (so he must know everything about watches) and he tells me that most of the fancy watches (IWC, etc) use common movements. Not exactly Chinese ones, buy fairly normal Swiss made ones, with small modifications.

He also explained that it is really hard to get a mechanical watch to be accurate, because one has to make separate adjustments in different orientations, and each one needs to be verified for about a day.

I have gone for the tritium-illuminated watches lately because they glow nicely. I had this one (http://www.h3-watches.co.uk/classic_auto_problue.htm) for a while, then went to this one (http://www.h3-watches.co.uk/classic_bdpro_blue.htm) to get a date I could read ;) ;) The Seiko "pilot watch" was unreadable at night, a few hours after dark.

[asyncio]

I have gone for the tritium-illuminated watches lately because they glow nicely. I had this one (http://www.h3-watches.co.uk/classic_auto_problue.htm) for a while, then went to this one (http://www.h3-watches.co.uk/classic_bdpro_blue.htm) to get a date I could read
Another vote for the Traser/H3 watches here.
I've got the titanium version of the one peter has got. It is lighter than the steel version, and also seems to be virtually indestructable, based on the number of times I've accidentally smacked it into things.

[peterh337]

And being quartz it is spot on. The "auto" watch was like all "auto" watches, including the 4- and 5-figure priced ones (according to reports) which tend to shift by ~ 1 minute every week or two, which is irritating.

However, I find the Traser/H3 stopwatch has "sticky" buttons and when flying holds (JAA IR training) it sometimes fails to start or stop, which is a PITA. I now use a big plastic digital stopwatch for that. But e.g. the £3500 IWC Aquatimer (http://images.watchfinder.co.uk/images/stock_9320/005-9320-IWC-Aquatimer-IW378203.jpg) (which I never owned and would never pay that kind of money, but I looked at it at a few shops) has the same problem - fiddly buttons, which shows you can pay loads of money and still get a piece of junk which is not much good when you need it.

[GeeWhizz]

I find the Traser/H3 stopwatch has "sticky" buttons and when flying holds (JAA IR training) it sometimes fails to start or stop, which is a PITA.

Oooh errr, a sticky PITA?

This is the exact reason why my wind up analogue stopwatch is worth its weight in gold. The big clunky button starts and stops the hands, the little clicky button zeros them. It takes nothing more fancy than that to sort out the carnage I've made of a hold or timed turn. ;)

[asyncio]

However, I find the Traser/H3 stopwatch has "sticky" buttons and when flying holds (JAA IR training) it sometimes fails to start or stop
Interesting. The buttons on mine have a very positive 'click', with no hint of stickiness or binding.
It sounds like yours might have a problem with the sealing o-rings, or perhaps they've changed the design. (Mine is about 4 yrs old now)

[RTN11]

Every time a thread starts on watches, it always ends up 4-5 pages long.

We really don't do much to stop the stereotype :}

[rmcb]

What is wrong with the timer on the adf console. I always use this for timed turns and holds.

This is despite having established having one on my wrist (local) and one glued to my clipboard (UTC).

Just thought I'd ask. :)

[24Carrot]

What is wrong with the timer on the adf console. I always use this for timed turns and holds.

Also, FWIW, examiners can see the one on the adf console, but they can't see the one on your wrist.

[captin_tea]

I 'm a ppl student and have looked at many many watches also. To me, theres only 2 things you want to know - the actual present time (utc, of course) and how far into a particular leg of the trip you are.

At just over a hundred quid this is pretty good ...

RW2 Copilote Rallywatch (http://www.astopwatch.co.uk/products/rw2copiloterallywatch.asp?watch=test&group=RW2CopiloteRallywatch)


Or at half that price and the one i actually have ...

Timex Ironman LAP Dual Tech T5E351 SU Digital Quartz Sports Watch with Black Resin Strap: Timex: Amazon.co.uk: Watches

Apollogies for the massive links but that what was in the adress bar.

I can seriously recommend the timex as 1- i actually use it and it wokrs a treat and 2;
theres a massive button on the front of it that you just press at the appropriate "turn, time, talk" so no need to mess about holding buttons in while pressing another and hoping you've no just enterred some obscure function and then try for half an hour just to get the stopwatch back !

You can also switch off the digital display and it tries to look like a normal watch.

[rmcb]

They missed a trick there - calling it the 'Copilot' will have lost them sales to the would be 'Pilot'.

[captin_tea]

rmcb, i think you're probably right. Aviation itself i believe was an after thought as its main reason for being is for rally co-drivers. The folks that designed it are exceptionally chuffed about it - i'd imagine by the multiple youtube videos they have of its different functions.

It is most certainly a functional watch but it is more like a stopwatch on your wrist - its massive.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Whilst various experienced people have said, quite rightly, that you don't need an expensive "pilot" watch for flying - equally most of us have the right to own, if we can afford it, "nice" stuff. Depending upon taste, that runs to cars, clothes, computers, aeroplanes.... .... and watches. I'll bet that just about everybody reading this has items which they spent more money on it because they like it, going well beyond the purely functional.

So, there is absolutely no reason why somebody who likes wearing a posh watch shouldn't spend a few hundred, or even a few thousand, on that watch.

If that person happens to be a pilot, then it makes sense for them to have a watch that they can use for flying as well - why on earth should you take the £500 watch off that you like wearing with a suit at work, to put on a £20 Casio to go flying?


Speaking for myself, I like my old RAF issue Seiko Military, which would probably cost around £150 to replace, and if it dies I'll probably spend that. I'm wearing it now in the office, and I almost invariably use it for flying. If for somebody else that's a £5k Breitling (or a middle-eastern copy of a £5k Breitling!), why the heck not?

G

[BackPacker]

GtE, I agree fully. Everybody is free to make their own lifestyle choices, including spending (too much) money on interesting hobbies, jewelery, gadgets etc. Heck, most of us on here spend several thousands each year on an entirely non-functional hobby. If all decisions were made rationally there would not be any Private Flying in Europe.

However the original question was not so much a "lifestyle" question, but a functional question on whether the built-in whizzwheel in a "pilots" watch was useful, etc.

And the overwhelming majority came up with a simple "no". Anything that tells you time to the nearest minute is good enough for PPL style flying. For CPL and/or IR you're going to need a stopwatch. Add big numbers and big knobs, plus a way of using it conveniently at night, and you've the ideal "functional" pilot watch.

(But you might not want to be seen wearing that in a suit...)

why on earth should you take the £500 watch off that you like wearing with a suit at work, to put on a £20 Casio to go flying?

The analog watch I'm wearing when I'm wearing a suit works just fine for VFR flying. But when I'm diving, I'm replacing it with my diving watch. When I'm playing sports, I take it off altogether. And when I'm refereeing, I replace it with a cheap digital watch because I need an accurate stopwatch.

Different requirements; different watches. Why would you need one timepiece that does it all?

[rmcb]

Each to his/her own - for one, I would prefer to spend this money on air hours. You don't look too much of a pillock when things go wrong.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Why would you need one timepiece that does it all?

You don't need that, but it's perfectly legitimate to *want* that.


for one, I would prefer to spend this money on air hours
I'm sure that's true of most of us - but given that most of the pilot watches on Transair will cost somewhere between the cost of an hour in a C152, and an hour in a high-end twin, and are likely to last a decade or more, it's not realistically a major dent in the flying budget.

G

[Unusual Attitude]

You don't look too much of a pillock when things go wrong.

Will the AAIB now be making note of the pilots choice of watch during any incidents reports ?!?!? :ugh:

[ShyTorque]

Brilliant thread drift here. Someone training for his PPL asks a simple question about which wristwatch to buy for flying and before you can say "Timex", the regulars get "wound up" and start arguing about cultural differences, history, you name it. Even human rights gets a mention. :D

If you want three opinions, ask a couple of pilots :p

[Ringway Flyer]

Down to the individual, of course. In my case I opted for an analogue watch with a black face and white luminous hands. Easy to read under all conditions. And a rotating bezel. I find it very convenient to just move the bezel to line up with the minute hand and then just read off the actual time at the next check point. It is a resin cased example and is still working fine some 10 years later. Battery life is about 3 years. Now there is probably a solar powered version available. Accuracy is about 5 seconds a month - good enough!

I would certainly endorse all the 'don't buy a fancy pilot watch' comments and become a poser...

RF

[SEP Flyer]

When flying a C152, especially on long legs with a headwind, I find a sundial is more than accurate enough. Not good for night flights though.

[peterh337]

If you want three opinions, ask a couple of pilots

There is a version of that one, which goes something like:

Put 4 pilots on a desert island, and a year later you will have 4 pilot forums, each of which has 20 members under various nicknames, four pilot associations, and 4 splinter groups

:)

[Intercepted]

If you want three opinions, ask a couple of pilotsIt might also prove that there is more than one way of doing flying in the correct way, something certain instructors, examiners and training organisations might not always recognise.

[NicoPH]

I opted for:

- a Traser with bi-directional bezel (a feature that was, to my surprise, fairly rare) and fabric strap, which I clip on the side of my kneeboard for navigation. Like Ringway Flyer, At every nav point, I rotate the bezel to be in front of the minutes hand. I can then see what was the time of my last nav point (which I write down later when I am serenely on my new track), and the time in minutes since that time (on the bezel). I have used a P6600 so far and I ordered an Extreme Sport Pro,which I think will take me a split second less to read.

- a Timex dual-tech sport watch on my wrist for extra time zones.

Waow factor wise... I'm fairly smug of the Traser and I would have enjoyed being offered it. :O

[mad_jock]

The reason why most bezels only go in one direction is for diving.

ie they will only increase you bottom time if disturbed.

Its really not worth explaining it all but if you see a watch only going one way its a diving watch in drag

[MarkR1981]

A British manufacturer of good quality mechanical watches at fair prices is Christopher Ward. I'd have no problem suggesting one although I wear whatever I have on that day which could be one of a number of watches dating from 1940 to 1975.

Glad somebody mentioned these, especially a watchmaker :ok:

I have now seen a Christopher Ward watch in the flesh, they certainly do look the part and it appears that you are buying a quality product at a very fair price. ie one which reflects manufacturing cost with a reasonable markup,.

The mainstream Swiss watchmakers IMHO set ridiculous prices
to: -

A) Fund massive marketing campaigns.
B) Maintain exclusivity.


Anyway back on topic...... Does anyone here use a Christopher Ward for flying??

[TRPGpilot]

a Citezen navihawk world time Blue angels for show and an Argos £10.00 kitchen timer Buy Salter 4 Way Electronic Timer at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for Baking equipment. (http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/8423892/Trail/searchtext%3EKITCHEN+TIMER.htm)

modified with bit of velcro on the back, for attachment to the yoke, work for me

[Lunchmaster]

My watch is a Christopher Ward, think the model is Pilot Mark II. It's an automatic ie needs no battery and I've had it about nine months.

I bought it not specifically to fly with but because a watch expert friend recommended them as great quality timepieces for the price with a Swiss movement that is also used in much higher-priced models. I'm delighted with it. I'm told it will last a lifetime if the working parts are oiled every four years and it's not dropped from a great height!

The only flying consideration I had when buying it was that the dial is clear of clutter and easily read in the air. The design is based on the old WWII watches and the IWC Big Pilot Watches so it fits the bill as a pilot's watch without shouting about my passion for aviation.

As it's my only watch I do wear it for flying - which for me is strictly VFR in old aeroplanes. I also carry a cheap kitchen timer strapped to my kneeboard as a back-up stopwatch.

Lunchmaster

[Dunky]

Hi all, new here and just came across this thread. As someone with more than a passing interest in watches, here are another couple of recommendations for your consideration
Citizen Eco-Drive Gents Stainless Steel Watch #BM6400-51E: Citizen: Amazon.co.uk: Watches and Torgoen T10204 Men's Aviator Steel Analog Quartz Watch with Black Dial, Date Indicator, Steel Bracelet, Waterproof to 10 ATM: Amazon.co.uk: Watches

or if you fancy something mechanical, try Steinhart, available directly from the manufacturer and excellent VFM.

This is the 44mm Flieger on steel bracelet, (bracelet available separately by request), on an 8" wrist. The reason I mention wrist size, is that if you have small wrists a large watch may not fit properly, be very comfortable, and may not look good at at all.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/SanchoPanza1/13082010068Medium.jpg

Or you may wish to try one of their diver models, like the Ocean 1 below.
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/SanchoPanza1/07092010078Medium.jpg

This one is a bit more than your budget though :)

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/SanchoPanza1/2011-05-13101424Medium.jpg

[tmmorris]

I personally love my Citizen Eco-Drive Skyhawk AT Titanium (Men's Citizen Skyhawk AT Titanium Alarm Chronograph Eco-Drive Watch (JY0010-50E) - £398.00 - WATCH SHOP.com™ (http://www.watchshop.com/mens-citizen-skyhawk-at-titanium-alarm-chronograph-eco-drive-watch-jy0010-50e-p30715.html)) but it's way OTT for practical use. Though I do use the slide-rule pretty much daily for simple maths - much to the amazement of my pupils.

I loved the Argos kitchen timer, though, I think I might buy one!

Tim

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just in passing, my junk email of the day shows a rather nice Seiko military derivative on sale at Transair for £108 - looks to be basically the ex-RAF one that is on my wrist with a bit of vintage styling and a more conventional leather strap.

G

[BEagle]

I bought my Breitling Aerospace Titanium F56062 through a senior Breitling executive for a good price in 1995 and it served me well. It is identical to the one below and doesn't have the silly 'repetition minutes' logo or the ugly italic numerals of later models:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/F56062.jpg

Then a year or so ago it developed a taste for battery replacement (£50-£70....) before it stopped working completely a month ago....:uhoh:

So, whilst in London I took it in for the posh watch shop to assess....

I had the diagnosis yesterday. £352.23 for a new movement (inlcuding £70 credited against the last battery change), £38.56 to exchange the hands as the new movement has a different spindle diameter, £130 for labour and £10 P&P....plus £106.16 VAT totalling £636.95...:eek:

I declined the opitional replacement of a slightly scratched crystal and slightly worn titanium nitride gold riders....that would have been an extra £165.75 + VAT.

And it'll take about 10 weeks to be repaired.....:confused:

[Dunky]

It may have been better to send it to the Breitling UK service centre directly. It would come back like new and I don't think it would have cost that much. The lead time for service is about right, and much better than Omega Bienne, or Rolex.

[Unusual Attitude]

I bought my Breitling Aerospace Titanium F56062 through a senior Breitling executive for a good price in 1995 and it served me well. It is identical to the one below and doesn't have the silly 'repetition minutes' logo or the ugly italic numerals of later models:




Then a year or so ago it developed a taste for battery replacement (£50-£70....) before it stopped working completely a month ago....

So, whilst in London I took it in for the posh watch shop to assess....

I had the diagnosis yesterday. £352.23 for a new movement (inlcuding £70 credited against the last battery change), £38.56 to exchange the hands as the new movement has a different spindle diameter, £130 for labour and £10 P&P....plus £106.16 VAT totalling £636.95...

I declined the opitional replacement of a slightly scratched crystal and slightly worn titanium nitride gold riders....that would have been an extra £165.75 + VAT.

And it'll take about 10 weeks to be repaired.....

Then again if you consider you've had it 16 years, thats only £40 per year to maintain and its probably worth more now than when you bought it....it will also look brand new if its had the Breitling polish! :ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think I'd be strongly tempted after the repairs to sell it, buy a nice £200 Seiko, and then spend the rest on flying!

G

[Justiciar]

All these "top end" watches have the same problem. About three years after I bought my wife a very nice Omega the battery needed changing. I was told by the main dealer that this did not simply mean being changed, but Omega would wish to replace the hands as well!! Why? I foolishly allowed the watch to be sent away and it came back 8 weeks later with a bill for £200+. The jeweller told me that it was lucky it was an Omega and not another brand (I can't remember which one) as the time for servicing was 52 weeks!

Interestingly, when I took my old (25+ years) Omega Seamaster to my local jeweller for a new battery it cost £5. Either the manufacturer's approach to these things has changed with newer models or the local jeweller is more straight than the main dealer.

[ve3id]

Texas Instruments has just released engineering samples of a watch that is based on their MSP430 family of MCUs, complete with a PC-based IDE so you can customise it any way you want.

EZ430-Chronos - Texas Instruments Embedded Processors Wiki (http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/EZ430-Chronos)

I am a professor of EE at a community College near Toronto. Occasionally I get requests for suggestions for capstone projects.

If anybody is interested in helping to design the 'perfect' digital watch for their needs, perhaps you would like to pass on a wish list to me and I will see if my senior students can build it for you. Alternatively, if you can program in C, you can do it yourself. My email is nw.johnson (.at.) ieee (.dot.) org.

It has two main digital readouts and five buttons. An accelerometer is built in, as well as an altimeter, but alas they do not have a pressure setting feature in the software that comes with it. You can also use it to change slides in powerpoint presentations!

It has a wireless link to a PC using one of three ISM bands so you can connect it to various other devices.

Unfortunately I can't undertake any more projects myself since I volunteer too much!

[Genghis the Engineer]

Texas Instruments has just released engineering samples of a watch that is based on their MSP430 family of MCUs, complete with a PC-based IDE so you can customise it any way you want.

EZ430-Chronos - Texas Instruments Embedded Processors Wiki (http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/EZ430-Chronos)

I am a professor of EE at a community College near Toronto. Occasionally I get requests for suggestions for capstone projects.

If anybody is interested in helping to design the 'perfect' digital watch for their needs, perhaps you would like to pass on a wish list to me and I will see if my senior students can build it for you. Alternatively, if you can program in C, you can do it yourself. My email is nw.johnson (.at.) ieee (.dot.) org.

It has two main digital readouts and five buttons. An accelerometer is built in, as well as an altimeter, but alas they do not have a pressure setting feature in the software that comes with it. You can also use it to change slides in powerpoint presentations!

It has a wireless link to a PC using one of three ISM bands so you can connect it to various other devices.

Unfortunately I can't undertake any more projects myself since I volunteer too much!

Hi Ve3 - I'm a (very) part time associate professor in aeronautics at a middle-ranking university in the UK. I have a permanent interest in "carry on" airborne instrumentation and also overseee a few Capstone projects annually, as well as trying to incorporate a few of those into real and publishable research.

Fancy talking offline about a bit of collaboration?

G

[d88]

Another couple of mechanical alternatives are German manufacturers Damasko and Sinn who make a wide range of pilot inspired watches. They may not be the cheapest but they are designed to take alot more knocks, bumps, and be more scratch and dent resistant than your normal watch. Although not household names, both are highly regarded in terms of overall quality and VFM within the watch community.

Damasko - Uhrenmanufaktur - Regensburg/Barbing - Hersteller von mechanischen Armbanduhren. (http://www.damasko.de/eng/index.html)

Sinn-Spezialuhren (http://www.sinn.de/en/)

More affordable German inspired flieger designs come from Stowa ( historically one of the original companies who made the flieger or B-Uhr design watch ), it's nicely finished but demand exceeds supply on these so expect a 8 week delay from order.

Flieger - STOWA GmbH & Co.KG (http://www.stowa.de/lshop,showrub,132468562719281,en,1324685634-19316,flieger,index,,,.htm)


or Archimede watches, typical flieger design and comes in a variety of sizes with even a left hand option.

ARCHIMEDE Pilot | Classic Pilots Watches | Automatic + Hand Wound | 4 Sizes 45/42/39/36 mm | Stainless Steel + Pure Titanium (http://www.archimede-uhren.de/EN/Pilot-family.htm)

[Richard H]

"All these "top end" watches have the same problem. About three years after I bought my wife a very nice Omega the battery needed changing. I was told by the main dealer that this did not simply mean being changed, but Omega would wish to replace the hands as well!! Why? I foolishly allowed the watch to be sent away and it came back 8 weeks later with a bill for £200+. The jeweller told me that it was lucky it was an Omega and not another brand (I can't remember which one) as the time for servicing was 52 weeks!

Interestingly, when I took my old (25+ years) Omega Seamaster to my local jeweller for a new battery it cost £5. Either the manufacturer's approach to these things has changed with newer models or the local jeweller is more straight than the main dealer."

A watch isn't really top end if it needs a battery. Either get a real watch (mechanical) or get something that isn't pretending to be a mechanical watch with the associated inflated price.

[tmmorris]

Or get a cheap/mid-range watch with solar recharging (Citizen Eco-Drive) and get the best of both worlds...

Tim

[Richard H]

Except you aren't getting the best of both worlds because it isn't a mechanical watch...

[peterh337]

Except you aren't getting the best of both worlds because it isn't a mechanical watch...

Objectively, what is good about a mechanical (auto winding) watch?

I used to have the Traser (http://www.h3-watches.co.uk/classic_auto_problue.htm) auto watch, which was excellent, but I cannot see the point in avoiding battery powered watches. Even the most expensive (e.g. £3000 IWC) ones are sufficiently inaccurate to require irritating resetting every week or few, and how many of us are stuck on an island for years at a time? The batteries seem to last a few years.

There is also a poor choice of automatic watches with a stopwatch function - well there seems to be below the "IWC" kind of price level anyway. Traser use the generic movements (e.g. Ronda) used by so many makers of Swiss "lifestyle" watches and their stopwatch (http://www.h3-watches.co.uk/classic_bdpro_blue.htm) (which I now have) is a quartz battery powered one. I am not suprised by this because a stopwatch, if used a lot, draws a lot of power out of the spring. I think the lifestyle watches get away with it because their owners rarely use the stopwatch :)

[Justiciar]

Except you aren't getting the best of both worlds because it isn't a mechanical watch...

Please explain the inherent superiority of mechanical watches! They are less accurate. Is that a virtue? Although they don't have batteries which need changing they need a servicing every 3 to 5 years, so the watch if anything is likely to be away for longer. Automatics are also more expensive in many cases than their quartz equivalents.

[fwjc]

I have a watch from Astro Avia. Unbenanntes Dokument (http://www.astroavia.de) Their watches aren't horrifically expensive, are easy to read with clear numbers and markings, and are comfortable to wear. I can't recommend them enough.

[tmmorris]

I'm totally with peterh337 and Justiciar - what's so superior about a mechanical watch, needing expensive servicing every few years and the time re-setting every week or two? My Citizen resets itself to the atomic clock every night, but its predecessor (also Citizen) didn't and was still accurate to within a couple of seconds per year - there's no mechanical watch in the world that can match that.

Sure, you get nice whizzy internals and a smooth sweeping second hand, plus a smug feeling as you contemplate your overdraft. But that's about it.

My 1860s gold pocket watch is a beautiful thing, and I love it very dearly - not least because it's been in the family since then. But I would never defend it as a timepiece...

Tim

[Richard H]

A mechanical watch is steeped in tradition, skill, craftsmanship, ingenuity and character.
The making of a mechanical watch is an art form all of its own.
Quartz watches have their place (I have one). But the only proper watches are the ones handmade in Switzerland (and to an extent, Germany).

[Justiciar]

A mechanical watch is steeped in tradition, skill, craftsmanship, ingenuity and character.
The making of a mechanical watch is an art form all of its own.

.... and is a triumph of marketing over substance in most cases. It is interesting when you look into it to find that the movements on many hugely expensive watches are the same as on much cheaper versions!

[what next]

Hello!

.... and is a triumph of marketing over substance in most cases. It is interesting when you look into it to find that the movements on many hugely expensive watches are the same as on much cheaper versions! How true! Ninety percent (or so) of all mechanical watches on the market - cheap and expensive - have movements of either ETA, Lemania or Valjoux. And guess who owns all those three brands? I think the name "Swatch" has already been mentioned...
Anyway, the only real difference between a "mechanical" and a "quartz" (digital displays aside) watch is the power source, either spring or electro-magnet. From there on, the same gears and pinions drive the same hands. A quartz watch with some complications (stopwatch, calendar, ...) is made of ninety five percent mechanical parts!

And regarding "pilot watches" in general: After 20+ years of commercial flying and instructing (and an occasional private flight in between) I swear that I have not looked at my wristwatch in flight more than ten times. On many days, I don't even bother to wear one. I really only need to look at the time to meet the passengers. And even then, there is the private cellphone in my left pocket and the company cellphone in my right pocket, both of which give me more accurate time than the best watch... (constantly updated through their network and/or GPS!) I flight, there are enough devices built into the aeroplane that display and record some sort of time. Plus my two cellphones and the two cellphones of the co pilot (or student) of course. And the iPads. And all of them glow in the dark, contrary to most watches after a day under the shirtsleeve...

But I must confess that I am not immune to this watch thing either... I even collect Swatches, although I have never worn one, some of which are really pretty and almost indestructible and very well suited for flying. Batteries last for several years and cost almost nothing to replace, so a Swatch with the battery replaced once per year will never let you down. And being mostly of plastic, you can leave them on when passing through security, a big plus in these days. (Maybe I should really start wearing them...)

All I really care for in a pilot watch is an uncluttered display for instantaneous readability. For this purpose, I wear a simple Fortis sometimes (which has the big disadvantage of every "mechanical" watch that you have to reset time and date every time if you wear it only occasionally) or a Traser (Quartz) with tritium hands that glow nicely in the dark. And should I ever need one as a status symbol, the all black Sinn 756 UTC would be among my top picks (Sinn Uhren: Modell 756 S UTC (http://www.sinn.de/en/Modell/756_S_UTC.htm)). With or without stopwatch dosen't matter at all.

Happy landings,
max

[500 above]

[QUOTE]And being mostly of plastic, you can leave them on when passing through security, a big plus in these days. (Maybe I should really start wearing them...)[QUOTE]

Maybe Swatch should get in to the belt and shoe making industries then!

Here's another vote for the Breitling Aerospace. 14 years old, three batteries and one full service - a great timepiece.

500 Above

[AdamFrisch]

Please explain the inherent superiority of mechanical watches! They are less accurate.

It depends on what you want a watch for. If you want accuracy, then the built in clock in your phone is all you need. The reason you're buying a mechanical or automatic watch is that you enjoy the craftsmanship and the engineering that goes into such a design. Accuracy, even though they like to sell them on that, is at least for me not very important. One could argue that a souped up Ford Focus is as fast as a Porsche, but that doesn't really make them the same thing.

I'm a total watch snob and will freely and widely admit that I judge people on what they have on their wrists. I find most watch brands to be abhorrently ugly. Overworked and lacking in good design. What's worse - 99% of them don't make their own movements - they buy them from big companies like ETA (Swatch) etc and that's why they're all virtually the same. To this snob, only 5 watches pass my minimalistic design criteria. Unfortunately, they're almost all in the $10K+ range, so it'll have to wait until I've found a way to get my Aero Commander to run on water.;):ok:


Sarpaneva:
Sarpaneva Korona K2 Kaamos Automatic | World Watch Review (http://www.worldwatchreview.com/2010/12/02/sarpaneva-korona-k2-kaamos-automatic/)

Panerai (one of the few who make their own movements):
http://www.panerai.com

Alain Silberstein. Whacky 80's design, but I love the simple chunky shapes:
Alain Silberstein - KRONO BAUHAUS II - KRONO BAUHAUS II KT 401 B - ?BLACK? | Worldtempus (http://www.worldtempus.com/en/watches/find-your-watch/detail-view/news_category/alain-silberstein/element/tx_worldtempus_cache/krono-bauhaus-ii-kt-401-b-black-1/)

Corum's Admirals Cup series in their simplest form are pretty clean:
Corum - Admiral's Cup - Admiral?s Cup Legend 42 | Worldtempus (http://www.worldtempus.com/en/watches/find-your-watch/detail-view/news_category/corum/element/tx_worldtempus_cache/admirals-cup-legend-42-1/)

Rado's re-release of their classic 70's DStar satisfies the anal minimalist in me:
Rado: Unique Swiss designer watches (http://www.rado.com/en/watches/dstar/282/Rado-DStar/detail.htm)

The Ikepod has become a classic already:
Marc Newson’s Ikepod time « melange (http://isiria.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/marc-newsons-ikepod-time/)

[Keef]

I'm glad the OP solved his problem!

I used to be a watch freak. I bought all sorts, each more expensive than the last. What I really wanted was a Breitling - well, cause I was a pilot.

Finally, about 20 years ago I bought a Breitling. The leather strap rotted after three months (it seems I perspire nitric acid). I paid £750 for a stainless steel bracelet. That fell apart after a few weeks, but was promptly replaced under warranty.
Then the stopwatch bit stopped working. It went back several times for that, eventually spending best part of a year at Breitling. It still doesn't work, and I've given up.
It keeps nigh on perfect time - gaining maybe one or two seconds a month. It needs a new battery every two years (I fit it myself, under a fiver).

It's showing its age a bit, but it soldiers on, and is easy to read. I reckon it'll last longer than I do.
I've never used the calculator ring in anger.

[tmmorris]

I've never used the calculator ring in anger.

Really? I use mine all the time; e.g. in Sainsbury's yesterday (if porridge sachets come in packs of 8 or 14, with special offers if you buy two packs of 8, which is cheaper per packet...? that sort of thing). Takes seconds and saves pennies...

Tim

[GGR]

Many of my colleagues go for the big watch lots of features etc. I bought a Seiko analogue no frills watch in 1988 from John Lewis that still works 100% having only consumed 1, yes 1 battery.
Many of my Rolex etc toting colleagues regularly poke fun at my £80 marvel. I ask them the time, they reply, I check my Seiko and reply correct! Works every time. When flying I always carry a spare and a torch and a.........

GGR

[Dulay]

This is something that I have never really understood: pilot watches. I have a breathing but never use it when flying. Actually I don't use any watches when flying! I see ads for IWC, Brentling with fancy planes behind them, but honestly when was the last time anyone really used a watch while flying?
Remy

[abgd]

I judge people on what they have on their wrists.

I used not to wear a watch - I'll check my mobile if I need the time. Since learning to fly in an aircraft with a non-functional clock, I bought myself a digital Casio watch for £11 in the sales.

I'd be absolutely fascinated to hear what you make of this. Don't hold any punches. I'm fairly thick skinned.

[AdamFrisch]

Casio is fine. You're obviously a sensible, budget conscious man;)

They're like paper cups - OK because they're practical. It's the TAG Heuer and Breitling people I have an issue with....:}:ouch:

[abgd]

I think that's a fair assessment :D, though heaven knows I can spend money when I put my mind to it :).

I enjoyed trying to imagine a city banker wearing the Sarpaneva to work.

[ExSp33db1rd]

Really? I use mine all the time; e.g. in Sainsbury's yesterday.............

Agree, 'cept I use a 2" dia. plastic circular slide rule ( a.k.a. back of an E6B computer) glued into my wallet, that was a gimmick key ring purchased in Kowloon about 40 years ago, for about tuppence in old money. keeps the Supermarket on the straight and narrow - bar stewards.

Oh ! watches ........

I bought a Seiko analogue no frills watch in 1988............

Ditto, 'cept I got mine around 1978. Black dial, clear white hands and numbers, sweepsecond hand, date. Wot more do you want ? I think I'm on my 3rd battery and I allowed Seiko to clean it, once. Unbelievably accurate, can't remember when I last adjusted it.

I dallied with a Glycine 'mechanical automatic' for awhile, had to keep the wrist moving, as in ....... Oh, you know. The hour hand only went around the dial once every 24hrs, instead of twice, which meant that 12 Noon was at the bottom of the dial, not the top. Could keep it on GMT (UTC hadn't been invented in those days ) and move the outside bezel to local time - except those infuriating places that were 30 mins. adrift. Like Bombay.

In then end, 'cos one doesn't 'read' a watch, I had to abandon it for the same reason that I don't like a digital watch, you actually have to read the numbers instead of just glancing at it, with an analogue watch you just look at the 'picture' briefly. Still have it, but can't keep the wrist moving fast enough to keep it wound up these days, so it is "amongst my souvenirs" - somewhere !

[mikehallam]

FWIW I wear two watches, one on each wrist. I'd wear more if I could !

Apart from their initial purpose, they are, after all technically complex ornaments - and less expensive to buy & run than any a/c.

A second hand bargain Seiko Automatic cost £1 (and a £60 clean). It is not dead accurate but gives great pleasure. Casio, sooo frighteningly accurate is the real timepiece.

Even so flying a very light Rans S6, it is easier to monitor start up & leg times with a dashboard mounted, cheapo pocket watch.

mike hallam.

[rmcb]

A device for all eventualities - something to solve ExSp33db1rd's souvenir problem.

Time Tutelary Automatic Watch Winder KA079: Amazon.co.uk: Watches

[jez d]

I'm a total watch snob and will freely and widely admit that I judge people on what they have on their wrists

I'm not, AF, but my goodness those are some ugly watches you have on your wish-list. I'm sure they're all design classics and the last word in wrist jewellry, but it just goes to show how tastes differ - I'm struggling to see a single redeeming feature in any of them.

Whatever happened to Sewells of Liverpool? They made some simply stunning looking wrist watches, in my unfashionable and uniformed opinion.

jez

[Dunky]

Sewills went bust,the last ones are available from Time Factors.

[ExSp33db1rd]

- something to solve ExSp33db1rd's souvenir problem.

Not so much fun tho' !!

P.s. Thanks.

[sapco2]

I bought a Breitling Chrono Cockpit about 8 months ago but it started losing time so I sent it back to Breitling under warranty. They sent back photographs of the chrome horn positions saying they have been severely bashed alleging that to be the cause of the malfunction, consequently they will no longer honour my warranty. I'm a bit shocked really because I can honestly say that I have never bashed the watch - the scuffs if any, are all attributable normal wear and tear. My Jeweller told me that its not unusual for Breitling to reject warranty work, in fact they appear to be tightening up on warranty work massively. I wondered if anyone else here has had a similar poor experience as mine?

[HWEST]

Pilot watches remind you of flying and take perhaps a little bit of the passion into everyday life.
Im not a salesman, but these days a watch doesn't need to be functional. We have way too much technology around performing everyday functions; a watch is a status symbol of sorts, but frankly I like any aviation chronograph at any price so long as it's well engineered.

Torgoen is my latest with an E6B function. I also have a superb Red Arrows Chrono and a Bell & Ross which looks like it was fashioned from DC3 instrumentation.

[LD1Racing]

Another vote for the Breitling Aerospace, on a dive strap so light and comfy. Been my everyday watch for the last 8 years. Had two batteries (around £50 and two weeks), but sadly the lower LCD has started to 'bleed' :(

Must have that seen to soon.

However - a mate has a Suunto Core (non-pilot) with a magnetic compass and baro altimeter, which has me tempted...

[spittingimage]

I have used, do use and will continue to use my cheap Casio that was around £12 or so IIRC from Argos. Has stopwatch, all sorts of beeping functions and even tells the time !

As an ex-instructor/examiner, what used to get my goat was students who would turn up for sorties or tests with wristwatch bling only approximating to UTC (or whatever) by a couple of minutes. :=

[riverrock83]

I've recently picked up one of these Citizen C460 for £80 from HSamuel.

Battery life if estimated at 2+ years (its not eco-drive), its easily read with a slide rule that isn't perfect but not too bad. Analogue is luminous, digital is back lit. I've never used a slide rule before starting PPL training, so this lets me practice all the time! It fits my wrist and the build quality is excellent.

Thought about altimeter / thermometer but couldn't work out when I'd use them. Linking to the timing radio signal sounded good but don't know when I'd need that accuracy. Saw some cheaper ones from other manufacturers but they either looked cheap or were very deep, looking silly on my wee wrist. I've no need for "bling" for the sake of my ego.

Have had it now about a month with no noticeable timing error. Works for me!



http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/52/51906/JQ8005-56ETv.jpg

[Monocock]

Thereis a lot of bolleaux within the pilot watch world. Most pilots wear a £12 Casio digital. In comparison to them, I was very extravagant and spent £80 on mine. I've had it for ages and it's the most reliable and accurate watch I have owned.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/JonoHolland/659f861f.jpg

[peterh337]

I used to have the exact same Seiko pilot watch, for several years.

In the end I could not read the date, due to age :)

[mad_jock]

yours or the watches peter? :p

[peterh337]

Mine :) ............

[Genghis the Engineer]

I did manage to get the watch glass on my Seiko military replaced some years back.

G

[HWEST]

Highly recommend the citizen watch (as in previous photo) So 'aviation-esque' at a very good price, Citizen reliability and a really nice big, clear face which is great in the air.

[vee-tail-1]

Curious how ostentation of his watch seems in inverse proportion to an aviator's experience. :hmm:

Have just retired my 1960 RAF Coastal Command issue Jaeger mechanical watch. No one left alive with the skill to repair it. :(

The similar looking Seiko automatic that I bought for £150 suits me fine. :cool:

[thing]

Bought one of these on Saturday. Citizen Red Arrows Pilot Chrono Watch (http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Citizen-Pilots-Watches-Citizen-Red-Arrows-Pilot-Chrono-Watch+2255)

I haven't many hours and the watch confirms it. I reckon it's worth at least another 200 hours in my logbook.

By the way I didn't get it from Transair and the blurb at the bottom of their add is wrong.

[Dunky]

Have just retired my 1960 RAF Coastal Command issue Jaeger mechanical watch. No one left alive with the skill to repair it.

Try Steve Burrage at Ryte Time Watch Repairs.

[KNIEVEL77]

Hi guys,
Now that the new Breitling Emergency is out I quite fancy another old style version if anyone knows of a one for sale with a coral/orange dial.

[Unusual Attitude]

I have one on my wrist right now of that exact spec but since I do the maintenance on my own aircraft and fly over remote areas rather a lot its not for sale! Shows my confidence in my own workmanship! ;)

Check Ebay, you can usually find one on there, expect to pay circa £2500 for a used early one with box and a fresh service or nearer £3000 for a newer version or one with the Coral face as they seem to be the most sought after.

Didnt think the new Emergency model was quite out yet? Got a mail from Breitling a few months ago with a teaser for it but not seen anything more?

Regards

UA

[KNIEVEL77]

UA,
I've had two already, one coral, one yellow faced and both fully serviced by Breitling and sold both for £1900. Although they are priced at £2500 on Ebay few rarely achieve that unless it's an Orbiter.
Now the new one is out i'm hoping prices will drop for the old version.

[dubbleyew eight]

Seiko have a range of watches out now with the E6B slide rule rings.
seemed a reasonable watch except for the huge buttons and huge winder knob.

obviously not designed by a pilot.

[tobster911]

I'd recommend the Rotary Chronospeed... It is fairly cheep ~ £100 and does conversions, speeds and other such things, as well as telling the time and having a very accurate stop watch.

IMHO, it's the best watch for the money, and I find it very useful when I'm flying...

[Unusual Attitude]

KNIEVEL77,

I've been keeping an eye on the prices for a while, with the slump in the GBP the prices have been slowly creeping up......

Dont know if the new model will force prices to drop or not, I certainly wouldnt sell mine to swap for a new one, the 121.5mhz beacon will do me fine since I only care about it being used for final homing which is why I bought it in the first place. If the donkey quits I'd put out a mayday which will be more then enough to get the ball rolling......

Regards

UA

[m.Berger]

RLT73 for this watchmaker. A better movement than a Darkling for the cost of a Reitbling strap. Assembled in England, mechanical chronograph. I wear it more often than my JLCs, or vintage Connies because it is accurate, clear and understated.

[119.35]

What do you use a 'pilots' watch for!??

I'm guessing that 95% plus of the time it's just used for the time and a stopwatch? Anything above and beyond this would be better served by your whizz-wheel surely??

I would save my money, buy a cheap digital watch/stopwatch off eBay and spend the rest on flying or booze and women!!