Have any aircraft blown over?

[RTN11]

In the high winds we've had today, particularly in Scotland, has anyone had an aircraft blow over or even away?

People do tend to tie concrete blocks to the aircraft. How much difference does this really make when the winds are gusting over 60 or 70 kts?

[Johnny Tightlips]

Yes in Cork airport Ireland during the Christmas 1997 storm. Amazing what the weather can do to an aircraft:ok:

Photos: Cessna 172 Skyhawk/Cutlass/Hawk XP (T-41/Mescalero) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Hibernian-Flying-Club/Cessna-172-Skyhawk-Cutlass-Hawk/1987601/L/&sid=4e47ef866a1ea6cdccdf137689317ea4)

[Pilot DAR]

People do tend to tie concrete blocks to the aircraft.

Generally not as much use as people think. The older Cessna Owner's Manuals said that the appropriate weight of a tiedown block would be 700 pounds. The often seen 5 gallon pail filled with concrete, is more of a mace attached to the wandering aircraft - the aircraft is probably better without it!

Similarly, those wire screw in anchors (often used to form an anchor for a dog leash) are ineffective. I landed once in a 40 knot wind (which would seem to have receded from it's maximum intensity) to taxi past several other aircraft lying on their backs, with ropes tied to those screw it anchors.

When I arrived in Cape Hatteras in the 310, I got the idea is must get windy there, as all of the tiedowns provided for transient aircraft were heavy chains.

['India-Mike]

Yep, Tomahawk at Dundee. On its back and through a fence it would appear.

[mad_jock]

Any idea which one it was IM?

This hurrance bawbag is a beezer 50G75 in Stornaway

[Tinstaafl]

60G80 on the TAF for Kirkwall. About 5 kts less for Sumburgh.

[G-CPTN]

A couple of years ago (maybe more) a guy took off from Newcastle Airport in a light aircraft with the concrete blocks still attached.
One fell onto a tennis training-ground.

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/275403-tie-down-block-falls-light-aircraft.html

Pilot fined after concrete block falls of his plane (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1899644.pilot_fined_after_concrete_block_falls_of_his_plane/)

['India-Mike]

G-BXET. I can't post a link to the photo for some reason (it was on FB). It's a wrecked aeroplane though

[Piltdown Man]

How much difference does this really make when the winds are gusting over 60 or 70 kts?

Pilot DAR appears to have some realistic numbers. Unfortunately, the majority of muppets who tie lumps of concrete to their wings forget how much lift their wings actually produce and also how. I'll suggest that most small aircraft go flying with two people. That means the wings will have to produce at least this amount of lift in excess of their own weight (OK, mass then), so that's got to be at least 340 lbs. And what is the stall speed when empty? 35 - 40 kts. Admittedly, the AoA at this speed will be greater than it would be when parked on the ground but with 60 or 70 kts blowing it is quite likely the aircraft could become airborne even with 340 lbs hanging off the wing. So 700 lbs is a realistic number. However, far more effective would be spoilers strapped to the upper wings. They don't have to be very big (think about the effects of ice!) to do their job. Then all the tiedowns have to do is stop the aircraft from being blown about.

Tomahawk at Dundee. On its back and through a fence it would appear.

Best place for them. Horrible, nasty things.

PM

['India-Mike]

G-INFO states BXET permanently wfu. It is now!

[fernytickles]

Not quite an aeroplane, but great picture.... Someone sent it in to BBC Scotland, BBC News - In pictures: Scotland battered by winter storm (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-16094360) of a windturbine overload?

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57212000/jpg/_57212371_fireturbine.jpg

[Pilot DAR]

Tomahawk at Dundee. On its back and through a fence it would appear. Best place for them. Horrible, nasty things.

Yeah, the world needs fewer fences - shame about the Tomahawk though....

[A and C]

The PA38 is not a Horrible nasty thing, it is a very good trainer, far better in fact than the C152.

Any how I don't like seeing someone's property destroyed.

[fireflybob]

Once read that in winds such as these best to park the aircraft downwind rather then into wind, obviously with control locks in place and suitably tied down with concrete blocks etc.

Not sure this would help but maybe someone knows better?

[Billredshoes]

"Once read that in winds such as these best to park the aircraft downwind rather then into wind"

Yep thays what we have to do with the AN2 !!!!!

[Dan the weegie]

BXET was inspected over a year ago by the CAA and was deemed by it's owner as worth more in spares, it's far less of an airplane than it looks :) It's been progressively robbed of parts, which is probably why it's in the fence due to being an awful lot lighter than a regular tommie.

The tommie is an excellent plane, particularly as a trainer. Anyone who thinks otherwise has flown only a couple of hours in one :)

[goldeneaglepilot]

I remember G-BBCJ getting blown over at Birmingham and destroyed, stories said it was carried through the air for about 100m complete with concrete picket blocks before hitting the ground and being a total write off, That was late 80's and was due to a freak gust of wind

[Genghis the Engineer]

A PA38 at Chilbolton some years ago cleared an 8ft hedge, complete with its concrete tie-down blocks, in a gale.

Same airfield, we used to have a Chevvron in a T-hangar, a different gale relocated the hangar to the far end of the airfield (thankfully missing any other aircraft but scattering bits all over the runway), leaving the Chevvron surreally untouched exactly where it started.

I had a very close call some years ago with a microlight tied down when an unforecast gale got up - I de-rigged it still tied down, with the trike around 30 degrees off the vertical and a wingtip digging a hole in ground. Thanfully undamaged, but I was very lucky there.

G

[trex450]

I never quite understand why with so many light aircraft/people the prefered method of securing the controls is with the seatbelts i.e. controls fully back and over to one side. As soon as the wind increases the aircraft is pitched nose up, increasing the angle of attack and increasing lift as well as making the aircraft roll. The Cessna system is so simple with the pin through the control column keeping wings level and holding the nose down. I have no worries about a 172 not being tied down on level grass as long as the wind is not over 40 kts. If it is tied down the best option (assuming a nose tie down point) is to tie it down at the nose only and the it is free to weather cock as necessary, if you are using the wing tie down points allow some slack so that it can weather cock it is good for more wind. I remember watching one bouncing in 60kts but a 172's wing produces little lift at zero degrees AoA so will not fly.
If you are going to turn it tail to the wind make all the moving surfaces are well chocked and check regularly as they can fall out then you have some repair work to do.
The best place to park as well would IMHO be in the middle of the airfield where the air is cleaner away from any buildings. It is easy to be drawn into parking in the lee of a hanger for shelter but in very high winds you have lots of roll over and curl around effects such that the aircraft is more likely to be turned over.

[mad_jock]

Fernietickles the wind turbines have an operating range which because they are constant speed is linked to how much the prop can swivel.

Once it goes over a certain wind speed they brake them and feather the blades There is still some force on the blades. If this is enough to turn them against the brake the whole lot goes up in flames, just the same as would happen if you headed off down the motorway with the handbrake on.

Its actually pretty dangerous. Those turbine blades are that heavy and the fire will take all the supporting bearings out and its very possible the whole of the front will come off.

Although that one looks as if its been swiveled and is getting the wind up the chuff which will reverse the direction of rotation which is really a bad idea for most of the components.

[Crash one]

Although that one looks as if its been swiveled and is getting the wind up the chuff which will reverse the direction of rotation which is really a bad idea for most of the components.

Best thing that could happen to the bloody useless things

[abgd]

Can't help pointing to the youtube video of one exploding due to an overspeed:

Wind turbine explodes - YouTube

One wonders whether you could end up with sympathetic detonation on a large wind farm.

Like the Tommie personally - glad to hear it's not an active one.

[Pilot DAR]

One of my many stories............

During my latter high school days, one of my classmate’s fathers very kindly allowed me the use of his Cessna 172 every Sunday. It was their family preference to follow their spiritual path on Sundays, and this did not involve the use of the plane. In his kindness, father thought that I would enjoy the use of the aircraft those days, and I certainly did!

The plane was kept tied down at a local grass runway which was everything that a 172 could want. The residents at that farm, though not aviators, certainly made every effort to help, and came to rely on me for aircraft matters. I became the sort of caretaker of the plane, always willing to do what I could to keep things in order to repay the generosity.

The only other aircraft to reside at that runway, was a Seabee, which I never saw fly, and whose owner I never met. It was tied down several hundred feet away, across the “apron” such as it was. Both planes were tied down to stacks of patio stones, around which ropes had been tied Flintstone’s style. Nobody had ever bothered to actually hammer in stakes to make proper tiedowns. It seemed to work, for a while…

Early one morning, the lady of the farm phoned me, and with a very upset tone, stuttered out “the planes blew into each other over night, come and do something!” Uh oh, I was the last one to tie down the 172, and those Seabees are pretty dense, so if a plane was blowing around, it must somehow be my fault. Needless to say, school had to wait…

I arrived on scene to find the 172 exactly as I had left it, with the only difference being the Seabee shadowing it! The two planes were nose to nose, at ninety degrees to each other, and the Seabee wing was right over the 172 wing, without having touched it at all! The only contact was the tiedown rope of the Seabee wing, which still had the pile of patio stones attached, now took a path from the Seabee wing tiedown fitting, over the trailing edge of the 172 aileron, and straight down from there to the now swinging stack of patio stones! There was a crease in the trailing edge of the aileron, but with the weight of those concrete slabs, I was amazed that the aileron was not completely folded into the rear spar. What a relief! I had not failed the 172 and its owner!

The Seabee, on the other hand was in rough shape. It had obviously cartwheeled across the apron, as both wingtip floats were torn off, the wing tips curled up, and the rudder and aft fuselage damaged. The fact that the wing tip float was gone by the time it got to the 172 saved the day, as it would have really hurt the Cessna wing of it had hit.

After great effort cutting and untying tiedown ropes, and moving the 172 bit by bit, I got it out from under the Seabee, and made it a new home a safe distance away. With some delicate bending, I got the aileron looking pretty presentable. I retied the Seabee patio stones, lest it come to even more harm.

The 172 received the required inspection to assure that the aileron control system had not come to harm, and it was fine. The Seabee sat there for some time in its damaged state, with my knots in the tiedown rope, and then one day was gone. It sure did not fly out!

[tascats]

I have seen an ATR72 resting on it's left wingtip during a breezy spell at Sumburgh, and a Let 410 doing the same trick on a similarly breezy day.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

tascats;

I remember the ATR well, along with the lady ATR P2 who wore gold stilletos with her uniform:\

Never happened on the Viscount:ok:

SND

[Tinstaafl]

When was that, tascats?

[Sir Niall Dementia]

tin;

It was early into the use of the ATR 72 by BritWorld, I would guess around late 1995-early 1996. I was still based there then. The aircraft was parked at the main terminal, the crew had just re-boarded after their break when a gust went under the port wing (IIRC) and blew the aircraft onto the starboard tip.

No-one really liked the ATR on that route ecause we had all been spoiled by the wonderful Viscounts, on our crew room wall at the time was a Pilot Mag article by Andy Foan describing the handling as "Ghastly, Ghastly."

After the Viscounts the ATR seemed cramped and fragile with poor crosswind limits for the type of weather and airfields up there. Having never sat through a go-around into Sumburgh in the Viscount, other than for cloud below limits I sat through 3 in as many trips on the ATR.

SND

[david viewing]

I don't understand why there is such great reluctance to tie down in UK. Proper tie down rings or cables are vanishingly rare and anyone securing their plane with portable tie downs, as I do, is viewed with barely controlled derision by the occupants of the clubhouse.

I use the 'claw', not a concrete block or even worse a spiral thing. My daughter had one of those for her horse and one day he took exception to it. It was truly amazing how it straighted into a long piece of wiggly wire as he pulled it out of the ground. I saw exactly the same thing a few months ago with a 172 that wanted to bolt and helped the owner to wind the useless things back into the ground before it flipped over onto my plane, and then lent him my spare claw for the windward side.

The same goes for the bits of washing line that people use to secure their bits of concrete. If you ask them if they'd stand under the block while you hoisted with a crane, they wouldn't, but some how it's OK to hold down an aircraft able to lift a ton or so with some old string. And that's before you count the number of propeller tips that have been lost to these useless bit of cement.

In my opinion, 40kts of actual wind is pretty sporting for an empty Cessna. I'd want it properly secured long before that.

[Halfbaked_Boy]

david viewing,

The claw is fantastic! It's not us, it's everybody else mate :cool:

Only downside is when you've hammered the pins really firm into the soft ground the day before, there comes a freeze overnight and you're trying to get the damn things out first thing!

[david viewing]

For that reason I carry a lump hammer to knock them in and a housebreakers' jemmy to get them out again. These items double as 'survival equipment' in parts of Scandinavia where such things are mandated.

[mad_jock]

its quite a nice design that claw.

Reminds me of the old anchor plates we used to use with turfer winches for recovery.

There pins used to have a hole in the top.

http://images.cloud.worthpoint.com/wpimages/images/images1/360/0111/27/360_0039e61ca227c67738b8c4d27286ef38.jpg

To help you get them out.

And for 50 quid plus p&p a resonable price as well.

Just make sure you are vertical to your tie down points.

[Tinstaafl]

Ta, Niall. I was based in Shetland from 2001-04, flying BN2s. Hadn't heard about the ATR. The wind in Shetland can be quite sporting.