KUL ATC SYSTEM UPGRADE

[veloo maniam]

Hello Aviators...just FYI.
On the 12th of December at 1600UTC KUL ATC will be
upgrading the existing system at SZB ATCC. Kindly be informed
that there might be some teething problems during the
morning rush hour at 130000utc onwards. There might
be some unexpected delays in obtaining ATC from Clearance
Delivery. Carry some extra fuel on your way back into KLIA(should there
be any unexpected holdings due to computer glitches).
Hope this could be helpful to you.:ok:

[bakutteh]

Rembe nallayerke. Much appreciated. Nandri!

[Hogger60]

You mean it can get worse? Except for the morning guy on approach freq., they are some of the least competent controllers I have ever dealt with. I can't wait to see what is going to happen when they go to three runways at WMKK next year. Now that should be all kinds of fun. That said, maybe it is their equipment. Anything that helps will be more than welcome.

[Fair.Pilot]

Thanks Veloo for the heads up!

Please ignore some aviator who think they're gifted and next to God.

[320busdriver]

Veloo thank you so much appreciate it:ok:

[modeselectorignition]

Hi Sir,
What does this upgrade brings to the pilots and ATCs? Upgrades should be a welcome and good news I believe. Thanks!

[veloo maniam]

Basically it is an ATC system improvement programme.
The old system is unable to cope with the present influx of data
hence the new upgrading.Also Mode S info are now
available with the new upgrading. More info about the flight
is available in a tiny window for the Ctlers perusal. No need to
open FPL's like before. Possibly no requirement to pass registration to KLIA Twr.
Italian experts are still fine tuning inputs from Ctlers. Just a bit of the iceberg.:ok:

[QNH1013]

An upgrade, Great! This means KLIA will at last get D-ATIS right?

[Major Cleve Saville]

Sorry guys I and most of my colleagues have to agree with Hogger, all the equipment in the world will not sort out the problems with Lumpur Control or WMKK approach.

Cleve

[Fair.Pilot]

Veloo,

could u check with the Italians if they can produce some software which will auto sequence a/c to form a long line( with 5 nm spacing inbetween) to the runway in use?

Once any a/c enter KUL airspace, this system must be able to calculate speed and heading for that particular a/c to fly.

Since DCA is paying for the upgrade, might as well ask for a better system which will indirectly reduce controllers' workload.

[veloo maniam]

The new system has a feature to auto sequence planes to Point Merge (NIPAR).
Our biggest problem is weather deviations. This is where all plannings are out and we have to do tactical control for the approach. No day passes without some form of deviation. Then again we are short handed as far as skilled Approach Radar Ctlers are concerned. I for one will not depend on this auto system and depend more on tactical management. It helps me, the pilot and the company. Anyway point noted, will have to wait for the 12th nite and with the 3rd runway next year, its going to be another episode as the consultants for the new airspace design is still being searched for. Cheers brother:ok:

[Hogger60]

It would certainly help if they used both runways for approaches and landings, like most other major airports that have dual runways (Singapore, Bangkok, Jakarta, etc.). Why the restriction on using 32R/14L for landings? I have actually landed on 32R a couple of times, but very rarely. It would seem like KLIA could handle a lot more traffic if you used both runways for take-offs and landings like other airports throughout the world do. I think TF was right when he said that it would be better to take the money being spent on the new runway and put it into hiring and training more controllers, as well as upgrading the ATC system.

[eagle135]

I hope it will eliminate KUL ATC habit whereby, from TOD, Lumpur Control will ask you to descend 250KTS or less and sometimes to clean maneuvering speed, but when you are handed over to Lumpur Approach, you will be cleared direct 10NM final, high speed, no. 1 for the approach and no delay.

By the way, yesterday i heard there were delays of traffic in and out of KLIA due to ATC problem. I'm not sure if it's true. I can only speculate that it was caused by by the upgrdade. Can somebody confirm it?

So guys, if you fly to KLIA, heed the advice of veloo to take plenty of extra fuel.

Thanks for the heads up veloo.

[veloo maniam]

The delays (only on the 1st day) were due to the system upgrade as all Ctlers are operating an entire new screen setup with different colour codes and commands. Too much to explain.

As for the TOD and speed of 270/250kts, this has been determined by the Flow Ctler with the anticipation of no deviations and that all would follow the STAR. However weather always throws in the spanner hence the reason for speeding up or slowing down when in control with Approach. We have no choice but to do tactical control on most occasions in the TMA.

Kindly take note that with effect from today (15th Dec) new 5 letter codes for intermediate fix (12NM) for 32L/32R 14L/14R has been enforced in the Approach Procedures. Kindly ref to AIP SUPP 20/2011 for further info. No more direct 10M finals.
P/s One frequent user of KLIA always refers to the MAHB Flight schedule to see the peak hour periods and prepares his fuel accordingly. This might help some.

[Hogger60]

What a mess today for those of us flying KL to anywhere outside of Malaysia. Put the clearance on request 10 minutes early, then took a 20 minute delay because they couldn't find the strip (that is what they told us on freq.) and we weren't the only ones. No estimate on how long we would be waiting for clearance or why those who called after us (to destinations within Malaysia) were getting their clearances while we sat there. I know it is a new system, but TF was right. They should have taken the 500 million MYR they are spending to put the 3rd runway in place and spent it on training and a good ATC system that works.

[Fair.Pilot]

Veloo,

need to clarify this regarding KLIA runway 32R, A11.

Were there "White Arrows" from the threshold of A11 before the threshold markings (piano keys) at A10? I believe there were white arrows markings many years ago. Am I right?

Without the white arrows, A11 is merely a displaced threshold for taxy.
Yet, I see many a/c start their take-off run (& power) from there.

Anyone, any comment?

Note: Taxiing onto 32R at A11, if one look "hard" at the runway, there's actually the white arrows which are faded!

[Hogger60]

Much better today. No problems with clearance, were lucky enough to get high speed arrival, thank goodness following a 738 who kept their speed up like they should (following the 160Kts from 10-4 DME note on the approach that way too many disregard). All in all a pleasant day to fly at KLIA even though we had to take off with a T-storm bearing down on 32R.

Don't know about the arrows, but A11 and A10 closed right now as they are doing work of the first 500 meters of the runway (the work lights look disturbingly like an aircraft getting ready to take-off when you enter A9 or A8, got my attention very quickly last night!).

[Hogger60]

Gotta love ATC at KL. Told to maintain high speed as we descended out of FL340, but when turned over to Director at FL 130, told to slow from 310 KIAS to 190 KIAS so they could let an Air Asia flight butt in front of us. Had they kept us high speed we would have easily beaten him to the localizer. I am used to them getting priority all the time out in Sabah and Sarawak, but this was ridiculous. And PS, controllers, do you realize how hard it is to descend at 190 knots? No weather to blame this time, it was pure controller.

[Slasher]

Don't do many KLs these days but it is very annoying to
commence descent and THEN be told to descend at 250
knots. With consecutive speed reductions one hangs the
speed brake out all the way.

If ATC would inform the crew just 3 mins BEFORE TOD it
would make all the difference.

[Hogger60]

Yes it would be much simpler that way, instead of one controller telling you to keep the speed close to max, then the next one telling you to slow to approach speed. Tough to slow down and go down. Descending from FL150 at 180 KIAS 20 miles out is very tough.

[cav-not-ok]

FL150 at 20nm? very poor judgement on your behalf. i hope you didn't attempt to land from that?

[Sunny Boyle]

Landing from FL150 at 20nm out ala space shuttle?

Some 20 years ago travelling from LHR to KUL ( old Subang airport ) on a brand new MAS B744 I had a ****ty experience after being invited to watch the landing. I was a young British F/O then and the arrogant captain saw it fit to show off. We descended late charging down on full speed brakes making Victor Batu Arang ( about 13 nm from touchdown ) at about 9000 feet doing over 230kts when everything was dumped down to affect a landing that was barely stabilised at 100 feet. Throughout the approach everything was vibrating as we were almost at flap 30 placard speed. Speedbrake warning with full flaps until 100 feet. The late descent caused the cabin altitude to lag behind the airplane and after touchdown we had a massive ear popping experience. During the whole ****ty freak demo, I told them they couldn't make it to no avail. I mentioned to the captain the stupidity of the whole freaking show off and he just brushed me off as not knowing the " aircraft's capability " like he did! I can still remember my trembling knees and the urge to pee. Name of that clown...a certain modern sikh singh; the quiet as mouse Malaysian f/o..a certain local crocodile dundee who had a baby crocodile pet.

A complaint letter to MAS came to nothing. I was a young chap then, easily forgiving and forgot to pursue further due to other more pressing matters in my life then.

So I certainly hope we did not have a hero going to land from FL150 at 20 miles out!!!

[Slasher]

Yep I too have been held at FL150 till approx 20nm out and
the consequential radar vectoring over the Malacca Strait but
I got no problems with that - the Approach chatter and TCAS
(not to mention thunderies) sum up the reason why. Besides,
the dynamics of arrival traffic can change dramatically - and
don't forget there are departures to contend with in the same
airspace with ALL aircraft needing separation.

Problems occur when you're told to expedite descent while on
the STAR after being instructed to reduce speed even further
in the same breath - in which case I just reply I can give one
or the other but not both at the same time.

And another peeve is being told by Area to keep up the speed
yer number one, track shortening etc and then go and call up
Director to be told to slow down to 170kts.

[Molokai]

Doing a sortie from KIX to KUL arriving about 2130 hrs on New Year's Day...any chance of air traffic snafu at that time? I guess holiday traffic should be cause for worries besides the resident thunderstorms that crop up suddenly every now and then.

The commute to downtown KUL should be relatively smooth if it's the holidays right? Does Malaysia " Mondayise " holidays that fall on Sundays?

Thanks.

[Hogger60]

Traffic from will be heavy as you get closer to downtown KL. While Monday is a holiday people will be out in force on Sunday too. Went downtown for Christmas lunch last week, and the traffic was mind-boggling for a Sunday afternoon.

[Hogger60]

FL150 at 20nm? very poor judgement on your behalf. i hope you didn't attempt to land from that?

Do you think I stayed that high on purpose? :ugh:YGBSM. :mad: Not my choice. ATC kept us that high due to traffic. Oh, and I did land from it as ATC vectored us all over creation.

[Slasher]

Actually Hogger come to think of it if you're light enough and
CFM'd (no IAEs) you might make it in 20 miles out at FL150.
You'd have to disconnect the AP and pull the speedbrake then
drop your gear at Vle, let the speed reduce and pull the flaps
till you end up with Config 3 hanging out, then stowing the
speedie back and pulling out Conf Full a few secs before the
thresh. Old cav-wotnot might **** himself with the approach
gradient being outside his zone of comfort but you'd probably
make it with a few sharp S-turns.

Of course it'd be a very steep approach with the thrust idle
throughout.

Done it in the sim once, but with IAEs I needed close to 23
miles with S-turns. If your sim is CFM'd it might be worth a
fiddle around if there's any spare time left.

[Kal Niranjan]

During the whole ****ty freak demo, I told them they couldn't make it to no avail. I mentioned to the captain the stupidity of the whole freaking show off and he just brushed me off as not knowing the " aircraft's capability " like he did! I can still remember my trembling knees and the urge to pee. Name of that clown...a certain modern sikh singh; the quiet as mouse Malaysian f/o..a certain local crocodile dundee who had a baby crocodile pet..

My guess...a certain insufferable braggart named lato' g string? I remembered croc dundee bragging about that freakish feat too!