View Full Version : LVNL hiring conversion ATCO's
ATCNetwork
28th Nov 2011, 11:56
CANSO - Transforming Global ATM Performance (http://www.canso.org/cms/showpage.aspx?id=3486)
Is this the first time LVNL is accepting non-dutch speakers.?
Interesting.....!
I wonder how many (if any of course) they will steal from Eurocontrol.
Dan Dare
28th Nov 2011, 20:16
Didn't they borrow some British controllers in the 80s? I guess they must have learned a bit of Dutch while there. Or does this not count?
samotnik
28th Nov 2011, 21:00
Are there any shift working allowances (or something else) on top of these salaries?
ATCNetwork
28th Nov 2011, 21:03
Of course shift allowances will apply
Hotel Tango
28th Nov 2011, 21:24
Why would they be taking anybody away from Eurocontrol??? Eurocontrol pay is far better.
Vercingetorix
29th Nov 2011, 05:40
Dan Dare
Yep, they took nine for a three year period but those selected had to do an intensive six week course in Dutch. No problem with the civil controllers but the Mil would only coordinate in Dutch:eek:
Depending on allowances and how much you can claim back from the Dutch Tax office on mortgage relief, the salaries are probably far closer than you think.
Plus you havent got the hassle of the company trying to take great chunks of your salary every year :ugh:
LVNL is recruiting experienced Air Traffic Controllers in the Netherlands. The length of this (full time) training will depend on your previous experience and is mainly geared to further developing your personal skills. You should not be older than 30 years Funny.....
Surferboy
29th Nov 2011, 14:32
Also with taxbreaks (Normal Dutch income-tax for amounts above €55,000 is 52%), the net. takehome from Eurocontrol is far better. Even as a Dutch national without the expat allowance you are better of at Muac.:}
This however is not the first time they are taking on expats, there are quite a few here. Only thing is, you will have to learn Dutch.
Luckily the Dutch language really isn't that hard to master as most Dutch people would like you to believe. ;)
Radar
29th Nov 2011, 18:29
Fair enough, Surferboy.
Problem is, every time you open your mouth, with a foreign accent, you get English straight back. Makes learning the language a real pain.
Fijne avond jonge :)
Surferboy
29th Nov 2011, 19:07
Welcome in Holland, where everyone wants you to know that they speak english "Reely goed" :p
However on the workfloor after the first few months most of them will start talking dutch to you if you've mastered it good enough! ;)
Ook een fijne avond!
Danscowpie
29th Nov 2011, 19:22
No more than 30 years of age
Forgive my ignorance, but I thought our European cousins were even more anal about Human Rights Regulations than we Brit's - age discrimination being one of them....
ron83
30th Nov 2011, 03:39
This would be mere formality. They could've still disregard any CV with age above 30,just a lot more work to do.
What is retirement age for controllers in the Netherlands?
Lon More
30th Nov 2011, 22:26
Back in the 1960's there was a Welsh bloke in Schiphol Tower. His English was so hard to understand everybody asked him to speak Dutch.
What is retirement age for controllers in the Netherlands Nominally 55 at Euro.
the Mil would only coordinate in Dutch Something new?
Tarq57
1st Dec 2011, 05:00
They want experienced controllers, yet the language in the ad seems written to appeal to a school leaver. :yuk:
You like to take rapid decisions, but you’re definitely no gambler. You’re on top of things and act swiftly and confidently. You’re into aviation. Does this sound like you? Then maybe becoming an Air Traffic Controller at LVNL is your thing. Reach your peak and be all that you can be as an Air Traffic Controller.
Surferboy
1st Dec 2011, 06:22
Nope, newjoiners have 58 as retirement age. And indeed, most of the ad is copied from the ad for ab-initios!
Too bad about the age limit. At Brussels ACC or APP most new controllers are at least 30 before they finish OJT. All because (up till now) everyone went to a tower before becoming ACC or APP.
On the upside, almost everyone speaks dutch and has ADV, ADI, APS and ACS on their licence. (some even have APP and ACP)...
Nope, newjoiners have 58 as retirement age.
Thank you.
What about pay? Those numbers mentioned in the ad probably are before tax? Not that much for a newcomer than after all taxes:hmm:
Taking all this and age limit,probably won't be many candidates.:cool:
riche149
1st Dec 2011, 19:59
The link doesn't seem to work, has the ad been removed?
The link doesn't seem to work, has the ad been removed?
Probably yes,no more ad on Canso.
But really are they serious? They want to hire experienced controller for a pay of a cleaner?:ugh: Here are some questions I asked and their answers:
When do you expect to start selection procedure and training?
- depends on needed training modules
What do you expect average time to be for an ATCO to complete training and validate?
- depends on background and thus on demanded training modules. Also, a twr app specialisation takes longer than the ACC training or training at regional airports.
Does the Dutch language course has to be taken during ATCO training for validation?
- no, before start of training
Will be the Dutch language qualifying/deciding factor to be hired by LVNL or only ATC side is considered?
- it is necessary to become fluent in Dutch in order to become a successful ATCO at LVNL because the coordination language between ATCO’s is Dutch. Once, somebody is screened in selection and the outcome is positive, help is provided for a language course before start of atc training.
Will be accommodation provided during training?
- no
What will be pay after tax during training?
- the starting salary for atc trainees is approx 1832 euro per month gross. :ugh:During the training years, this salary grows when certain modules are passed. For side-entrants, depending on the needed conversion training, the salary will be adjusted.
Is there any additional pay/allowances on top of that ( shift-work, expatriate etc.) ?
There is compensation for shift work and health insurance. We are not interested in expats, but only in people that pursue a working life-time commitment to LVNL.
Surferboy
2nd Dec 2011, 06:21
Interesting, the last few newjoiners got a lot more than that I believe!
Especially if looking at rent prices close to Amsterdam doesn't seem that much.
But it says that depending on needed modules it will be adjusted,but no figures...
Another thing to note,how long it will take to speak good Dutch,otherwise you even not gonna start training:confused:
Surferboy, maybe you know approximate figures new joiners were paid?
Surferboy
2nd Dec 2011, 20:48
Don't know exactly, but really can't imagine they would've done it for that amount! Cost of living is indeed quite high and taxes are a b*tch, so 1800 Gross seems very low for someone with experience.
Your Dutch is probably gonna be good enough after two weeks of lessons or so.
SINGAPURCANAC
3rd Dec 2011, 10:49
so 1800 Gross
even at western Balkans were the lowest paid ATCOs in Europe ,live and work, salary at regional twrs twr/app is above 1000 eurs net. In addition to salary some percentage for night shifts,supervisor bonus, OJTI allowances and who knows what else....
so 1800 Gross, is below any serious offer.
serious European offer ,for ANSPs that desirable needs qualified atcos, should be expressed as:
- salary around 4000+ eurs net,
-not complicated process
- not strict language requirement ( willingness to learn is probably the best explanation)
.....
It seems that some recruitment processes ,currently under way, aren't serious.
it looks like message to present atcos" we will employ foreigners ,if you do not accept......"
;)
I sent them an email with similarish questions, but more focussed on the money side of things.
I told them my current salary at Eurocontrol and asked for a comparison.
No wonder they didnt reply!!
Ill be VERY surprised if they get anyone for this - €1800 per month!!!! Hahahahhahahah