PPL Radio Procedures ????

[Pilotz]

Hi , im 15 in a few days & have been training for my PPL Just over a year. I have been going over circuits for the last 3/4 weeks & aparently i cant move any further until 16 when i solo, so looks like its circuits for the next year !!!! WOW Boringgg.....But all experience i guess! Anyways onto the question.....Radio Procedures...

The hardest part of learning to fly i am finding to be the radio. I am trying to learn the radio and need some help,

I train @ Leeds Bradford. Ok , Here goes...

1st call for standard circuit should be amid take off point and go something like "G-_ _ Downwind L/R Hand 32/14"
depending on runway use of course. is that correct ?

Then What should ATC say? Should they give me a number for the circuit? If not what do i say to get a landing slot....Then when it comes to base, Is this correct "G-_ _ L/R base"?? .... And then wait for ATC to clear you on finals ?????

WOW Its all so frustrating....Please help !!!! Thanks

[Golf-Kilo Victor]

Yo Pilotz me old fruit!

I'm 16 an learnin to fly up at teesside, and you know what helped me loads? a trip to ATC for Work Experience

Also, dont forget to say what you want to do: touch and go, low approach/go around, glide approach etc

and if you are STILL baffled, ask your instructor. He/she should be able to help

[GRpr]

Read CAP 413 again.

If you haven't read it, why not?

[XcessiveG]

Think its boring at 15, try starting at 11 & getting told you have 5 years of circuits to do, before you can go solo.....

[criticalmass]

Pilotz,

It may also help if you can beg/borrow/buy a scanner and have it tuned to/scanning the frequencies of interest throughout the day when you have time. Steep yourself in the radio calls and after a while it will be second nature.

I learned most of my radio calls and procedures from this (before I started flying), then when I read the regulations I had no difficulty understanding what was required.

Good luck with the flying.

[Squawk 8888]

Pilotz, my instructor just said I PAID-

Ident
Position
Altitude
Intentions
Destination

In the circuit no need to say altitude or destination (they already know) but the rest should cover it.

And everyone else- no solos 'til 16? Bummer- in Canada you can solo at 14.

------------------
Per dementia ad astra

[Genghis the Engineer]

Pilotz old chap.

Well done on being ahead of the game, I had my first lesson at 19 and didn't get my PPL until I was 22.

Circuit calls vary slightly with airfield, although as has been said elsewhere, get a copy of CAP 413, which will tell you most of what you require. At a busy airport like Leeds-Bradford, flying one circuit, I'd expect something like this: -

"Leeds tower, G-ABCD, radio check and taxi with Delta"
"G-CD, Readibility 5, Delta Correct, taxi for 32 left hand, hold at Delta 1"
"G-CD, 32 left hand, hold Delta 1"

"Leeds Tower, G-CD, Delta 1 ready for departure"
"G-CD line up and depart immediately"
"G-CD lining up"

"G-CD 32 left downwind for touch and go, three greens"
"G-CD, Roger, call finals"

"G-CD, Finals for touch and go"
"G-CD, land or touch and go at your discretion"

I wouldn't normally make base or crosswind calls unless (a) I'd been told to, or (b) I was joining in that position.

G

[EDDNR]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">"Leeds Tower, G-CD, Delta 1 ready for departure"
"G-CD line up and depart immediately"
"G-CD lining up"</font>

"Leeds Tower, G-CD, Delta 1 ready for departure"
"G-CD, cleared for take off"
"G-CD cleared for take off"

Is the correct phraseology. In your case, the pilot only replied to the clearance to line up. Only a controller can initiate the words "take off" and the pilot should acknowledge that clearance.

Rod

[Pilotz]

Hey Guys ! Thanks a lot for all the advice. I went & bought a scanner & Listened thoroughly to LBA tower for 2 days solid! And what a golden charm it turned out to be, Im finding the radio easy now after listening to the scanner! And i also Bought CAP 413 ... Many Thanks for all Your Help People! Cheers Again, Pilotz :-)

[Genghis the Engineer]

Rod,

Given that D1 is some distance from the runway (but the nearest holding point) I think that an instruction to line up would be given.

No dispute that only the tower would use take-off, but departure is a commonly used term. Probably the more correct readback would be "G-CD line up and take-off immediately".

G

[This message has been edited by Genghis the Engineer (edited 20 April 2001).]

[Stroppalot]

...and why would you state 3 greens in a training a/c?

3 greens relates to aircraft with retractable undercarriage, and the term is used as a confirmation that your landing gear is down and locked, and that you have 3 green lights on the instrument panel to confirm this. On all PPL single training stuff, like Cessna 150/152/172 / Piper PA28, etc, the undercarriage is fixed and not retractable, hence there are no '3 green' lights.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Because at bigger airfields, controllers often ask you to confirm it, even in a fixed gear aircraft, so the (admittedly pointless) addition to the call saves chatter.

The alternative is an unapproved "finals fixed gear" on the first circuit, or an even more unapproved "finals gear welded".

I have been asked to confirm my gear was down in a microlight at Culdrose and a motorglider at Boscombe Down, both obviously fixed gear.

G

[This message has been edited by Genghis the Engineer (edited 21 April 2001).]

[Pilotz]

Maybe at Larger airfields this is correct Ghengis but we have never been required to confirm the status of a training aircrafts gears as they are usually "down & fixed" which you must only confirm to "YOURSELF" While performing pre-landing checks, Also i was once taken up in an aircraft with retractable undercarriage and we werent asked to confirm the status of the gear then either, Leeds-Bradford isnt the biggest of airports & only accepts aircraft up to around the B757 size, (VARY RARELY) , Most often Fokker 50's & Boeing 737's. So maybe its the size of the airfield that sets the requirements for radio procedures such as reporting the Gear status????

~Pilotz~

[low n' slow]

Hey all!
just to add to the discussion, we fly
C 172 RG in schooling and we never confirm gear down or three greens. However, we do have to confirm when flying gliders in sweden
- sundbro, se-uef, downwind rwy 06, gear down and locked.
And as for VFR in controll zone, I've found that ATC appreciates a report on every leg in circuits, unless otherwise has been stated. If there are many solo's in schooling in the same circuit, mistakes are bound to happen. As with our school, we're sometimes 4-5 solos in the pattern with another 5 ac out practicing outside CTR and there's been many times when reports on every leg would have saved students from close proximity situations! It's important to "feel" the situation regarding traffic and what the other pilots are capable of and then act accordingly on the radio. That is, don't request a power off etc. if the circuit seems full!
Regards/lns
and by the way, those circuits are worth the while when you get to first solo! Good luck!

[This message has been edited by low n' slow (edited 21 April 2001).]

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thinking of where I've been asked it, perhaps it's a military thing, I can't on reflection recall being asked the question on a civil airfield. There are other differences of-course, but those are usually less subtle and tend to get more consciously picked up.

G

[Lawyerboy]

Actually Genghis, they do occasionally ask you to confirm three greens at civil airfields - Stapleford certainly does. But then you're asked to confirm a/c type on first contact as well, and so far, as I've told them I'm in a PA38, I've never been asked for the confirmation.

[Icarus Wings]

There is no reason why you cant go on and do further training such as advanced turning, practice forced landings and of course navigation before you go solo.