Airlines told: 'cut their loads by half'

[kbrockman]

I really like these kind of actions :ugh:.
When in dire economic times, best thing to do is to bite the hand that feeds you
by striking thereby making the problem even worse.

Aking to railroad workers over here (all government workers btw) that go on strike whenever they want often unannounced and always at the busiest times.
I once asked them "why not work instead and not charge any fees for the travelling passengers, that'll really cost money for the employer, create sympathy from the public and doesn't inconveniance non affected parties ?, the logic of that question just was to hard to understand for those jokels.

Same could be done by the immigration officers @LHR, why not do your work
as usual, pick out those with immigration paper issues, process them as normal, for those that get cleared after being checked out or only have minor issues like lost passports that can be replaced etc... let them continue their journey.

For the ones that have real immigration issues, stop processing them, don't send them back to their countries ,don't fine the airlines as usual ,stop further processing and after a shortwhile police will have to intervene and find alternate housing for them
putting extra pressure on the government to solve the problem without inconveniancing the public and airlines too much.

[jensdad]

kbrockman: 'I really like these kind of actions :ugh:.
When in dire economic times, best thing to do is to bite the hand that feeds you
by striking thereby making the problem even worse.'

You could look at it the other way: the UK government is biting the hands that keep the country running, thats why those hands are going on strike.

Having said that, I believe the unions should wait until negotiations have run their course, and then , if necessary, call a strike. But I can understand the anger of public sector workers. Anyway, enough politics for one day...

[Basil]

BBC News - Public sector strike could see Heathrow 'grind to halt' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15884527)
Passengers at Heathrow airport could face 12-hour delays next week when immigration officers go on strike over pensions, airlines have been warned.
The airport's chief operating officer Norman Boivin wrote to them to say there was a real danger of "gridlock".
To relieve the pressure, he has asked carriers to cut their "load factors" by half on international flights arriving into Heathrow.
Can we presume that Mr Boivin will meet the airlines losses? :rolleyes:

[brakedwell]

Can we presume that Mr Boivin will meet the airlines losses?

At least the passengers will be more comfortable - until they arrive at Heathrow.

Make Unions cough up :*:*

[southern duel]

Basil am I missing something. why would the BAA reimburse the airlines ??? It was a mere suggestion to help the situation next week.

This is a UKBA strike and therefore it is the Govt that should pay up if anyone does.

Thats like saying an aircaft manufacturer and not the airline should pay compensation to the passenger because an aircraft goes tech for a considerable time ?

[kotakota]

For gods sake , just declare heavy snowfall and shut London airports down for a day . Works every time. I just love giving advice to 3rd world countries , especially as I live in one near the equator !

[xtypeman]

Maybe someone should sue the unions if they are delayed or inconvienced.

[c52]

BBC says the strike threatens Heathrow chaos.

Anything that threatens the state of chaos at Heathrow must be a good thing, surely?

[racedo]

Can they bring back the Borders Agency guy as he let the Pax in without any checks.

[ncleflights]

thankfully we live in a democracy and those Civil Servants feel that they have a genuine argument and have no course of action but to go on strike. Peaceful protest is perfectly acceptable if your not happy living in a free democratic country then I suggest a move to China or Iran may be appropriate.

Yes it will cause people problems and indeed I will be inconvenienced myself as my childrens school will be closed and even if I was to go to work all the citys Metro drivers are on strike also. So I will have to take a days unpaid holiday but that I believe is a small price to pay in order to live in a democracy.

[FR-]

And will LHR be expecting full landing fees? Plus will the airline even break even with a plane only half full?

fr-

[Phileas Fogg]

Whilst it may be only a month since I emigrated from UK this thread just serves to remind me of what a good decision I made.

As an expat Aussie jested with me only last week ... about the only worry we have on this island is ... "Are you sure your beer is cold enough mate". :)

[Basil]

Well, those public sector workers should be aware that we can't pay their agreed pensions AND pay for this:
BBC News - Asylum seeking benefits cheat received nearly £400,000 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15899948)
His mum and dad need their pensions, you know!

[Cyber Bob]

UI'm sure most carriers will continue to land with their booked pax load - up BAA to sort it out - after all, they're due one back from the airlines, me thinks!

[ATNotts]

With a lot of nationalities less good / patient at queuing as we Brits I can imagine, if things get as bad as BAA are hyping them to be, then it's more than likely that tempers will fray, and eventually impatient travellers will "gate crash" the border agency desks; added to which there will be disorder on flights where passengers are held on board. Will the police and security staff be able to cope with such disorder? I doubt it.

Frankly I wouldn't blame passengers is they did gate crash their way in.

Surely to prevent this happening the Border Agency should allow free flow of EU arriving passengers through the border (a la Schengen) for the day, and use what resources they have to offer a decent level of checks to non EU flights.

Simples! But I doubt that Theresa May nor her friends at the Torygraph, Mail and Sun would countenence such a sensible move.

As for the strikers, I suggest they join the rest of us in the real world, pensionswise!

[gazcork]

Is it not a wholly conceivable idea that the major capitals with UK embassies and High Commissions can not use staff to pre screen pax!!! where is the BCP?

[ncleflights]

As for the strikers, I suggest they join the rest of us in the real world, pensionswise! - why should there be this race to the bottom in this country.

I have worked in the airline industry since 1986 and my wife has been in the public sector since 1988. My pension is no where near as good as hers will be when I retire but that needs to be balanced against a pay that has continually been behind that of the public sector. Now only a few years to retirement she is told she will loose thousands of pounds and have to contribute more to receive less (a pay cut in real terms). I do not know of many people in the public or private sector that would stand by and allow such a radical change to their terms and conditions. Remember this crises was not caused by your public sector refuse collectors, town hall cleaners, grave diggers, home helps etc, some of the poorest paid in society but by a greedy and unregulated banking sector and yet we expect them to pay by radically cutting their pay. Please lets stick to the facts and not behave the media hype about how well paid the public sector is.

[sealink]

So what do we do ...... every flight we send into LHR we are expected to deny boarding to half the booked passengers i.e. cut the loads by half ?? Hilarious.

[WHBM]

Remember this crises was .... caused by ... a greedy and unregulated banking sector
I know the banks have been blamed for all sorts of bizarre things in recent times, but to stick them for the fact that people are progressively living longer and thus taking significantly larger pensions from the pot, really takes the biscuit.

The state of public pensions had become grossly unaffordable in this area, and politicians were progressively living in "Emperor has no clothes" land about it, long before there was any mention of any issues in some (only) of the banking sector.

[AircraftOperations]

Cut your loads by half, or risk having aircraft grounded with pax still on board who are unable to disembark from a previous arrival?

It's gonna kick off big time.

Presuming they'll be a lot of dubious types aiming to enter the UK on Wednesday now.

What a kerfuffle.

[Facelookbovvered]

My reading is that the current offer on the table is that no one within 10 of retirement age will be affected by this, and yes some will have to pay more, the bottom line is that life expectancies have increased by 10+ years in a generation. The real question you and your wife should be asking is WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR THIS? Whilst there are many dedicated individuals in the public sector, everyone will know of at least one that take the p**s with sickness & poor performance that few in the private sector would get away with and it is the private sector that funds this, the Government has no money of it's own, these are public servants they are "employed" to serve us not the other way round, the vast majority have been lead like sheep into this strike and for many it will be a day off to get some Xmas shopping done, safe in the knowledge that there will be no repercussions for not turning up other than a loss of a days pay, now just imagine what the reaction would be mid August if airline crews decided to have a unpaid days leave and left these people sat in departure lounges for 24 hours!

[Los Endos]

As you approach the inevitable immigration queues on arriving back in to the UK, the signs say "Tougher checks means longer queues". Translated this actually means " In order to cut costs we have reduced the number of immigaration officers by 25% over the last 5 years, this means longer queues. Oh and by the way that bit about the tougher checks is a fib as well".

[Count von Altibar]

Does anybody know the time the UKBF strike commences?

[pwalhx]

Once again an emotive title which doesn't reflect the truth, airlines have been asked if they can, not told. Giving it some thought making such a suggestion to avoid problems actually seems a sensible idea, dont you think?

[ifonly]

"the bottom line is that life expectancies have increased by 10+ years in a generation"

It is average life expectancies that have increased - largely due to less infancy deaths. It is a myth that people are living longer - it is actually that more people are living to the same age. But the Civil Service has actually shrunk in this time.

But of course if the Government says it's true then we it must be true - just like the fact that kids leave primary school barely able to read or write yet GCSE and 'A' levels results get better every year!

If you signed a contract to buy a car at a certain monthly payment and the company turned round half way through your repayment plan and suddenly said sorry but we want more now the I'm pretty sure you'd be upset.

Perhaps if we didn't spend so much on oversead aid or good old Gordon hadn't sold the nations gold reserves, then we wouldn't be having this debate!

[acbus1]

I do not know of many people in the public or private sector that would stand by and allow such a radical change to their terms and conditions.
Except, perhaps, those who have seen their pension scheme closed down.

Many of those in the Private Sector (that's a statement of fact).

Many of those in the Public Sector? (that's a rhetorical question - 'None' is the answer).


See the difference do we?

Of course you don't. You only see what you want to see and ignore the facts.


Still going on strike are we?

Of course you are - because you're selfish and the taxpayer is footing the bill.

[Basil]

Giving it some thought making such a suggestion to avoid problems actually seems a sensible idea, dont you think?
No, because the 50% of pax booked to arrive Wed. but who 'shouldn't travel' will be unable to transfer to another date because there just isn't space for them.

Another problem the airlines will face if forced to keep pax on board is that the aircraft and crew will not be available for their next trip leading to huge knock-on problems and loss of revenue, hotel bills etc. Also, just consider the safety potential of tired crew on a parked aircraft with pax kicking off and possibly trying to open doors.

[ajamieson]

I do not know of many people in the public or private sector that would stand by and allow such a radical change to their terms and conditions.
Eh? They already have. And striking wasn't an option for most of them. Most private sector pension schemes have either closed or seen their value massively decreased, concurrent with average pay little more than frozen (this is to say, real-terms pay cuts). Meanwhile, the public sector has continued to benefit from pre-agreed pay rises and protected pensions.
Remember this crises was not caused by your public sector refuse collectors, town hall cleaners, grave diggers, home helps etc, some of the poorest paid in society
It wasn't caused by airline and airport employees or 99 per cent of their customers either, but why should they be made to suffer?

[Skipness One Echo]

Private pensions in the UK were I believe, somewhat more robust until a certain Mr G Brown got his grubby little paws all over them.

[AndyH52]

I'm a public sector worker and, funnily enough a tax payer too. Does this make me self employed? Given that my taxes have also been used to bail out the banking sector and subsidise the various tax allowances, reliefs and concessions offered to the private sector, does that make me a shareholder of their companies too?

No, I didn't think so. Some of the language used in the debate around public and private sector is unnecessarily inflammatory and masks the fact that there are well off and badly off in both. Current circumstances though are providing an excuse for a cynical revision of terms and conditions by many employers in both sectors.

concurrent with average pay little more than frozen (this is to say, real-terms pay cuts). Meanwhile, the public sector has continued to benefit from pre-agreed pay rises and protected pensions

Oh, and I haven't had a pay increase since 2009 despite average inflation pushing 5% over the period....

[FR-]

Well Andy if you aint happy, move on.

fr-

[Skipness One Echo]

BBC News - Labour MP calls for Heathrow to be closed during strike (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15921183)

Is there no intelligence test to be an MP?
OK so we shut LHR for "health and safety" reasons, then what? Sorry, my bad, MPs can't do strategic thinking....

[WHBM]

Private pensions in the UK were I believe, somewhat more robust until a certain Mr G Brown got his grubby little paws all over them.
Ah yes. To give the substantial extra money required nowadays by the public sector pensions.

[AndyH52]

Ah no, WHBM, as the net benefit to the Treasury of the changes in tax treatment was zero; there was a corresponding cut in Corporation Tax at the same time that tax relief was removed on Advanced Corporation Tax. Perhaps your ire would be better directed at those companies that used the changes to raise profits rather than offer employees a better pension...

[LGS6753]

Anyone wishing to avoid Heathrow delays on Wednesday might be advised to book on flights into the likes of Cardiff, Blackpool, Norwich, Humberside or DTV - if necessary by connecting in Amsterdam. Their eventual journey may be further, but take less time.

Just an idea....

[Facelookbovvered]

leave it out.Gordon Broooon never moved a muscle unless it achieved his idea of re distribution, most of which involved taking money from wealth creators and employing another 750,000 public sector workers, the majority of which, however well intended are not creators of wealth,diversity officers to ensure that the correct number of social minorities are employed irrespective of their ability to do the job

You and that clown Ed Balls would get on well!!! why not just take all the unemployed and put them on the public sector payroll? think of all the tax that they would pay? zero unemployment no unemployment benefit to pay, I'm sure we could find something useful for them not to do, even if its just going on strike:rolleyes:

[AndyH52]

We would be much wealthier had we not had to lend £1.162 trillion to the banks...and some of your views on public sector recruitment are out dated to say the least...but then as ever things are never that simple or clear cut and people see what they want to see...

[Facelookbovvered]

True, but we'd all be f****d if we hadn't

[ncleflights]

FR - the same applies to you if you think the public sector is getting more then move on in I am sure you would not be there long

ajamieson - I see you have jumped on the 'race to the bottom' band wagon because your terms and conditions were eroded those in the pubic sector must also suffer, as I already stated some of the lowest paid in society shoudl not suffer a economic crises they did not create.

acbus1 - No I wont be on strike as if you had bothered to read my post I dont work in the public sector but have spent the last 20+ years in the airline industry. However that does not mean I have to be selfish and not support public servants who provide a vital role. After all if they were not so vital we would not be all getting in a flap about Wednesday would we?

Facelookbovvered - as far as I am concerned no one is taking a days unpaid holiday in the public sector - they are taking part in a strike which in a democracy they are quite entitled to. I also know of plenty of people in the private sector that I have been unable to dismiss because of poor performance or sickness. Regardless of which sector your work in we are all bound by the same employment law and the dismissal process is the same in both sectors. Their is no special treatment for poor performance in the public sector unless you read the popular press, oh it must be correct then.

[MAN777]

Etihad cancel Heathrow flights over strike : Heathrow Airport News Stories (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/heathrow-airport-news-281111a.html)

[cwatters]

Despite the recent cuts the UK has just had to announce plans to increase borrowing. That's fine as long those we borrow from believe we can pay it back.

It wouldn't take much to knock confidence in the UKs ability to repay and if that happened the present cuts would look like a walk in the park compared to what forced austerity measures would mean.

Recent report described UK gilts as the "least dirty, dirty shirt".

[EastMids]

LHR was marvellous to travel through on Wednesday - no queues anywhere and I went from terminal door to lounge in T1 including checkin, bag drop and security in just over five minutes. I guess the flight I was on to ORD was loaded less than 25% As far as ease of use of LHR is concerned, if that is what strikes do to LHR - bring more of them on! :ooh: So it seems that passengers weren't impacted much by the Wednesday strike.

Of course, sadly the threat of chaos resulted in many airlines operating with very light loads and it is their business and that of the retailers in the terminals that will have been damaged by the industrial action, more than passengers. The irony of course is that if strikes repeat and that really starts to hurt the airlines, there will be less flights, fewer passengers and less need for border agency staff... So it might turn out to be a potentially a rather self-defeating action on the part of the PSA then...?