Nav exam.. Request a little help!?

[RyanRs]

Hi
I have hit my second hurdle in my PPL training, first being my Air law exam getting in the way of flying my first solo, well fast forward 14 hours and i am now ready for my Solo Nav exercise and once again i am grounded until i gain a pass in the Navigation exam! :/

Well, i have had some good ground schooling, i have read the AFE book and gone through the OAA Nav CBT, I am 99% confident with the CRP-5 (wind side) and pretty ok with the front side. Planning routes and finding / measuring true tracks, true winds on true charts is no issue. However! I am still yet fairly un-confident and fear taking the exam! The reason is because of what everyone has told me and from what i have read about how accurate you have to be to prevent choosing the wrong answer which could lead to a knock on effect thus giving 5 wrong answers in a row!!

I have no issues with drawing near perfect true track lines and measuring the true track but in practise i still manage to get myself 1/2 a degree out here or there and altho i select the correct answer in the end, its never the actual answer i worked out, just the nearest answer to it! Now, given how fussy the CAA are about the accuracy in this exam, i have little confidence that i will pass it and instead cock it up because my wizz wheel has perhaps been stamped 1/4 degree out and combine that with nerves causing me to draw my true line .025' wrong but in the same direction.. that adds up to 3/4' and ultimately gives me the wrong end answer!

Anyway, so to stop rambling on, what i ask is. If it is allowed, would someone be so kind as to tell me the locations of the route that i shall have to plan in the exam (i shall be taking Paper 1), so i can measure them up before hand and be 100% certain i am happy with my tracks before i go in? Now, i dont see how this can be classed as cheating as its not giving away any answers, and with regard to Nav planning -you can either do it or you can't! I just don't want to fail like loads do because of something that may be out of my control!

I hope most of you can understand where i am coming from with this issue and i hope someone can help! I really want to progress with my flying but this has really got me stuck!

Thanks
Ry

[Intercepted]

Why not ask the CFI at your school and see what he says? :rolleyes:

[GeeWhizz]

If it is allowed, would someone be so kind as to tell me the locations of the route that i shall have to plan in the exam (i shall be taking Paper 1), so i can measure them up before hand and be 100% certain i am happy with my tracks before i go in

I'm not going to, and actually I cant even remember them. You might be hard pushed to find anyone to do this for you too. Not wanting to sound too harsh, but as well as the advice above, do what the rest of us did: suck it and see.

More constructively, I had a scrap of paper next to me during the exams. When I'd finished the questions, on it I drew a line creating two columns. I revised each question and answer I'd given and judged whether I thought it was correct or I was unsure placing the question number in the appropriate column. If there were 75% in the 'correct' column, then the exam was over, if not I'd recheck the 'unsure' answers in attempts to get to 75%. Didn't always work mind :uhoh:

There are many things that we fail these exams on but for nav just be as accurate as you can. The answer you calculate may not be an option, so recheck and go for the nearest available. In another thread someone was using china graph pens to draw lines which compromise accuracy too for example. Air law is a difficult exam due to the 'legal-ese' language, the others arent so tough IMO.

It does sometimes surprise me why exams are left to last minute.com if they're going to have such an impact on the flying progression. :ugh:

[Cusco]

Using a fine felt tip pen of the Staedtler Lumocolour variety will help your drawing accuracy on the chart.

Whether you use a permanent ink or watersoluble is up to you in the exam: water soluble allows you to wipe clean any errors with the minimum of fuss, but beware sweaty palms doing this when you don't want it.

Do not use a chinagraph in the exam.

For the CRP 1 use a sharp pointed 2B pencil and take a sharpener and eraser in with you.

And then, as others have said, just get and do it!

(I don't think anybody would give you the waypoints ahead of the exam as this could be construed as cheating, but I don't see a problem with asking around of other peeps who have recently done the Nav exam to see if there is some kind of pattern in the routes they were given.)

I just don't want to fail like loads do because of something that may be out of my control!

If you prepare adequately, and draw accurately, then nothing is out of your control: it is you that is in control: think positive!

Good luck.

[24Carrot]

I am 99% confident with the CRP-5 (wind side) and pretty ok with the front side

If you are concerned about being "pretty OK" with the non-wind side, remember that you can take a non-programmable calculator in with you. For peace of mind, check your examiner is OK with it well in advance.

Good luck!

[Morris542]

From memory the Nav exam is 1hr 30mins. This should be more than enough time to do the exam, check your answers, and then check them again.

[rich_g85]

Ryan, My advice would be to just give it a shot. I recall that the multiple choice answers make allowances for measuring errors and are more about seeing whether you apply your drift correction the right way round and offering you the chance to make a 180 degree gross error. For example, for a given wind & magnetic variation what heading should you steer to track 090 degrees? A)087 B)093 C)273 D) Mickey Mouse Good luck.

[RTN11]

Come on mods... is this some sort of CAA trap?

I'm struggling with Met, can anyone tell me the low level forcast chart they're going to give?!? It's not cheating, honest!

Seriously though, it is tough to actually have the confidence to sit the exam. At school, Uni, or even for ATPLs the exams are booked or scheduled weeks ahead. You know when the deadline is, and have to be ready. With PPL exams, it's just turn up and say "I'll have a go" when you think you're ready, and often students never do.

Get the PPL confuser or PPL perfector, if you can answer those questions well, you'll be fine.

[RyanRs]

Noo, im not from the CAA! lol. I do not see how knowing the weypoints beforehand could be classed as cheating tho as one would still have to find the exact long/lat on the exam chart and draw a 'Good' true line then measure an accurate true track with the pertractor. I just think that knowing the weypoints beforehand will take some pressure off as you would be able to spend less time planning the route and squinting your eyes worrying whether your line is accurate enough and spend more time on answering the questions that are actually relevant for testing ones knowledge of Navigation!

But anyhow... I do have the AFE perfecter and i managed to get 7 consistent correct answers from the 'paper 2' and i have just had another hour ground school. I have booked the exam now for next sunday and i guess ill just have to try my hardest!!

Jeez, i worry what im going to be like in my ATPLs when i start them! :/

Thanks for the help everyone :D

[Heston]

Good grief, of course its cheating! You have to do the whole thing in a certain time - that's the whole point! And the nav exam isn't just testing your theoretical knowledge - its also testing whether or not you can apply that knowledge realistically.

But look, its not that difficult if you are careful, methodical and check everything twice. And actually there is plenty of time.

If your instructor says you are ready, then you are ready. If not, then you certainly aren't ready.

Good luck

H

[Intercepted]

When I did my skills test, one of the items on my examiners feedback list was that I had taken way too long time to plan the flight. Functioning under time constraints and accurately fullfilling a number of tasks under time pressure is an important part of a professional career as a pilot. If you plan to do the ATPL you will have to sort out your way of thinking as soon as possible and become more professional towards the task ahead. If not you might end up disappointed very soon, otherwise later when someone throws an apptitude test at you.

[ozbeck]

I too am surprised you would not view disclosure of the waypoints as cheating.

First of all, having to find them on the chart is a test of whether you can interpret latitude and longitude coordinates. Secondly if you know the route you could measure the distances and tracks pre exam. Also if you know the route you could get a good idea of any danger areas or controlled airspace frequencies etc, about which questions may be asked.

I could go on with a much longer list of the advantages it would give you over any other trainee who, like 99.99% of people, just learn the subject and then take the exam! I am also surprised that you know in advance which paper you will be sitting.

There are some quirks and oddball questions in the series of exams and this is something which is mentioned over and over again on this forum, however, we all have (had) to suffer them on an equal basis.

Despite these comments I do wish you good luck for a pass.

[GeeWhizz]

[...]I do not see how knowing the weypoints beforehand could be classed as cheating[...]

You will once you've taken the exam.

Everyone has said everything that I'd say, and much more politely.

Good luck with it and let us know your thoughts afterwards.

GW

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Wow... of course its cheating! when you are doing your flight plan for real are you going to ask a club member or the CFI to do the hard bits?We all studied and we all.... those with PPL's passed, i got my nav first time but i did JUST scrape through and it was down to one of my instructor mates beasting me the day before ... drawing track after track... my wizz wheel was smoking!it builds chracter i got 80% through the exam after doing the flight plan and worked out from the subsequent questions that i balls it up.... a frantic redraw and re-calc got me closer to the answer!my fave question.... you have flown from NZPN on track NZWN you arrive at NZPP and are instructed to hold. How much time can you hold NZPP arriving at NZWN with legal reserve plus 15 mins. there are about 6 calculations in that question.... how much fuel have i already used... etc. sadly the answer E: land at NZPP and refuel was not present.

[RTN11]

you have flown from NZPN on track NZWN you arrive at NZPP and are instructed to hold. How much time can you hold NZPP arriving at NZWN with legal reserve plus 15 mins. there are about 6 calculations in that question.... how much fuel have i already used

Unfortunately it's questions like this that make the multiple choice questions more difficult. In the days of "show your workings" you might of got some marks for steps 1-5 even if it was step 6 that meant you got the question wrong.

On the other hand, in the real world it doesn't matter why you were wrong, if you miscalculate your fuel you're going down.

[thing]

If you take off with full tanks every time then miscalculating the fuel is going to be difficult. Before I get howled down I'm not talking about professional flyers but the average club guy like me.

[24Carrot]

The joys of fixed wing...

[BossEyed]

If you take off with full tanks every time then miscalculating the fuel is going to be difficult. Before I get howled down I'm not talking about professional flyers but the average club guy like me.

One of a number of problems with that simplistic attitude, thing, is that you're now so heavy you won't make it off the short grass strip you're departing from...

There's generally (but not always!) a reason why training courses have the syllabi they do. :hmm:

[GeeWhizz]

If you take off with full tanks every time then miscalculating the fuel is going to be difficult.

I think miscalculating fuel is difficult in any of our silly little spamcans. We all 'know' how many USGs or Ltrs or whatevers we burn per hour. Add a little for taxi and take off, diversion fuel, a little more (usually a fixed amount) for reserve plus a percentage of the reserve (say 10%).

This is basic stuff, and I'm not one to go on a trip and fill to the brim after every leg. If I can get there and back on full tanks then I will. Likewise if the fuel calculation is tight and I'm left in any doubt whatsoever, I'll uplift a drop or two to be sufficient.

you're now so heavy you won't make it off the short grass strip you're departing from...

I find that fuel/weight limitations arent too problematic in the UK with our temperate climate. Perhaps this would have more of an impact at high and hot strips. Mass and balance is usually the reason for dealing with fuel quantities in my experience. That's not to say that we shouldn't check performance figures every now and then, even just to make sure we can still do them! ;)

[Dustertoo]

Hello RyanR,
Just prep and take the test. You will do fine. The test is designed to check your problem solving skills. No matter how much we plan each flight weather changes, NAV aids fail and equipment malfunctions. No worries for a problem solver.
Safe Flights