BMI [Archive] - Page 2 - PPRuNe Forums

egnxema

22nd Dec 2011, 07:45

I imagine the emphasis will be on the short in "short term" in connection with the bmi brand. Most BA corporate customers will want the BD routes adding to their existing BA/IB/AA contracts swiftly. Executive Club members will want to earn and burn on BD routes. And BA has no history of maintaining brands of airlines it purchased (Dan-Air, Brymon etc), although of course this time it is IAG doin the buying not British Airways - but I still think BD will be rebranded fast, with "operated by bmi" in small print on aircraft noses in order to "keep bmi as a going concern" for legal/merger reasons.

Donington Hall allegedly already up for sale.

While it is sad to see an airline brand with an East Midlands history be devoured it will in the medium term secure more jobs than are lost.

I have previously received the same news about my airline employer being purchased by a European big boy at the same time of year. While we did worry things turned out ok. I hope the same applies to BD employees, especially those currently not based at Heathrow.

4015

22nd Dec 2011, 07:47

IAG's Press release:

IAG News (http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1642160&highlight=)

Looks like the restructuring will take place over 3 years. Not the best Christmas news for some.

4015

11K-AVML

22nd Dec 2011, 07:47

Hope you do ok out of this. Good Luck.

Belboy

22nd Dec 2011, 07:55

Great news for all the bmi staff. Well done.

Rougueg

22nd Dec 2011, 07:59

Obviously the ground engineer was incorrect. (BMI bought by IAG)

How about the cateerer though? Was expecting a deal to have gone through by now!

Wonder why the Regional deal is taking so long, initially word was that it would complete by End November, then End December.

Time to pull the black and yellow??

bartonflyer

22nd Dec 2011, 08:02

Interesting that Lufthansa seem virtually bound to sell off bmibaby before the deal completes or there will be a "Significant price reduction if Lufthansa does not opt to sell bmibaby before completion" - who's in the market to buy it?

The Big Easy

22nd Dec 2011, 08:10

Belboy,

Are you having a laugh? This will lead to serious job losses! Good luck to all!

le grand fromage

22nd Dec 2011, 08:41

Some interesting questions from the limited info released: 56 slot pairs is a lot less than the 80+ that bmi held when LH took over. Assume they have retained quite a lot as payment for loans pumped in over the 2 years as only reported sales have been to BA.

Pension scheme staying with a UK subsidiary of LH.....hope the trustees have got a LH parent company guarantee given the size of the deficit!

Timetable looks optimistic as EC clearance unlikely to be obtained in phase 1 investigation (1 month from submission of application with all info the commission requires). Much more likely to go second phase procedure to deal with the overlapping route issues and to try to find other carriers willing to enter the affected markets (mainly domestics). Just because VS complains doesn't mean they will get slots to fly whatever routes they fancy.

Baby clearly won't last long in current form as BA say they don't want it and price adjustment downwards if they have to keep it, to deal with offloading at a loss or closure. I don't buy the suggestions here that an airport will buy it....would be no strategic logic at all, and can't see what's in it for another lo cost either unless a large dowry goes with it.

Regional deal rumoured to have been signed last week but funding is believed to be a problem....getting cash from banks or private equity to buy airlines in the current market must be a challenge with the uncertain security that an Embraer 145/135 fleet provides. Will Woodley and Ross be able to persuade someone? If not what will BA do with it?

Good luck to all at bmi....still some way to go unfortunately as its still LH's until competition clearance and don't expect BA to be making any specific announcements about jobs other than what Willie has said already until it is legally theirs.

Peter47

22nd Dec 2011, 08:41

With LH is taking on the pension liability £172.5m looks cheap, the slot portfolio alone must be worth consideraably more. Presumably it reflects the high level of BMI's expected losses in the short term and the likely restructuring costs.

It will be interesting to see what the regulatory authorities want in terms of slot divestments and if they must be sold or surrendered.

The obvious thing is for BMI to become a BA franchise with BA reallocating domestic slots to European services, "babysitting" them for use on long haul in the longer term.

Will Virgin be interested in starting services on some of BD's longer haul routes such as Saudi Arabia, Cairo & Moscow? They will doubtless acquire enough slots from the regulators but will they be able to make a success of them?

You may see one plane kept in bmi livery for PR purposes & the BD code used on charter flights on a Saturday afternoon. It doesn't really make any sense to keep the brand.

Doubtless the best result for bmi but I certainly wouldn't want to be one of their employees, certainly outside Heathrow.

VanBosh

22nd Dec 2011, 08:44

Update on Ireland...

IAG's chief executive, Willie Walsh, told Morning Ireland that BMI's business is not sustainable in the current form and today's deal still faces regulatory hurdles. He says that once the transaction is complete, then the issue of restructuring will be addressed.
Mr Walsh says IAG will retain the Belfast to Heathrow slots and also said he wants to retain the Dublin-Heathrow slot. He says the scale of BMI's Dublin-Heathrow services are small and when the deal is complete, this may be looked at when IAG takes control of BMI.
Mr Walsh - a former chief executive of Aer Lingus - says the main interest of IAG centres on BMI's valuable Heathrow slots. He says that BMI operate small aircraft and he wants bigger planes to be used in Heathrow to make the business more profitable.

Chidken Sangwich

22nd Dec 2011, 08:53

My personal opinion is that Baby will not be sold and will continue to operate for S'12 in current form. It will then slowly be dismantled and you'll see a lot more Embraers and Q400's in and around EMA/BHX.

BA have no interest in keeping Baby as it is, its prime for a re-vamp with BA partner Flybe taking over the reigns.

stab3.5up

22nd Dec 2011, 09:00

Oh well thats that then. a lovely bunch of guys n gals n will be missed in Dublin by all the staff when the plug is pulled on the dub lhr route. gods speed and live long and prosper.

JSCL

22nd Dec 2011, 09:02

So let me get this right - £170m for BMI.

If bmibaby is part of the deal, the price drops.
If regional is part of the deal, the price drops.

That seems good footing for a nominal £1 purchase of baby IMO.

stormin norman

22nd Dec 2011, 09:13

Not difficult to see what IAG will take out of BMI with Walshs statements today.

If the leases can be renegotiated then BA might find itself with a new fleet at LGW.

The pension hurdle was a big one,the outcome which will be very worrying to people in the BMI scheme.

License to Fly

22nd Dec 2011, 09:14

IAG has informed the Stock Exchange today that it has reached agreement with Lufthansa to acquire bmi, subject to regulatory clearance.

IAG hope the regulatory process can be concluded within the next few months.

Skipness One Echo

22nd Dec 2011, 09:15

The obvious thing is for BMI to become a BA franchise with BA reallocating domestic slots to European services, "babysitting" them for use on long haul in the longer term.

They won't be a franchise as they'll be owned by BA, in the same way BA CityFlyer are owned by BA. There's good operational flexibility in mainline operating domestics as they can balance a load of A319s-A321s against demand, there would be less of that with only BMI operating them.

There is no business case for the BMI brand surviving, none at all. LHR-BHD / DUB will have the option to be served via Aer Lingus' existing DUB and BFS services, freeing up slots for long haul, as the model states. BA could not make Northern Ireland pay and if anything it's less likely to work now.

As for Virgin, they're no longer serious players, and they certainly do not have the skill set in place to save BMI, not in a million years.

fincastle84

22nd Dec 2011, 09:43

Good news for BA, not so good for the BMI staff. At least Branson didn't get his sticky mitts on BMI.

Belboy

22nd Dec 2011, 09:46

BE

My comment was not meant to be heartless at all, my heart goes out to those who will be negatively affected. I think there are some very positive results from this acquisition, in that there will be a more security for more staff than would have been the case if a buyer had not been found and LH had had to make the saving required themselves, or some of the other potential buyers who were rumoured to have expressed an interest had done so.
Defininitely no offense meant, I have been in that unfortunate position myself and it's no fun.

Capetonian

22nd Dec 2011, 09:49

EI-BUD

22nd Dec 2011, 09:54

There is no business case for the BMI brand surviving, none at all. LHR-BHD / DUB will have the option to be served via Aer Lingus' existing DUB and BFS services, freeing up slots for long haul, as the model states. BA could not make Northern Ireland pay and if anything it's less likely to work now.

As for Virgin, they're no longer serious players, and they certainly do not have the skill set in place to save BMI, not in a million years.

Skipness, this sums the whole thing up, you are right.

EI-BUD

Gonzo

22nd Dec 2011, 09:59

Or IAG expand the lower cost base BMI and BA withers on the vine?

wheelie my boeing

22nd Dec 2011, 10:03

Fincastle, how exactly is this not good news for the BMI staff? Perhaps you think it would be better for IAG not to have bought BMI in which case the likely scenario would have been BMI shuts down completely and all staff are redundant.

Capetonion, BA's control of LHR slots is still not as good as many other airlines have at their hubs. Without these slots BA couldn't expand - and from what I can tell, BA expansion is a very good thing for the British public!

Juan Tugoh

22nd Dec 2011, 10:09

And BA control 56% of LHR slots - surely that can't be healthy.

But that is okay for Air France, KLM and Lufty at their main bases?

Capetonian

22nd Dec 2011, 10:09

BA's control of LHR slots is still not as good as many other airlines have at their hubs
Market dominance is rarely a good thing for the consumer.

Also, it is quite possible that IAG will use BMI as a means to lower costs within BA and take over the BA Sh network making them effectively a LH carrier only.
That would be a good outcome, I think it unlikely.

BMI are being bought by IAG, not by BA, that's true, but who's the David and who's the Goliath here? My prediction is that BMI will be swallowed up by BA. Watch this space - I hope I'm wrong.

Grackle

22nd Dec 2011, 10:18

Personally, I rather hope that you're right ...

Trash 'n' Navs

22nd Dec 2011, 10:26

BMI will be swallowed up by BA

Having spent that much cash on getting LHR slots to serve the Far East, why would IAG then wind up BD with it's substantially lower cost base than BA?

Seems to me they could use the BD crew on routes where margin is very tight and make them slightly more profitable.

Strikes me it's much like the QF/JQ issue in AU - QF have a very high cost base and appear to be trying to switch routes to the lower cost base JQ.

I'd be more worried if I was at BA right now...

ETOPS

22nd Dec 2011, 10:29

Can I reassure any BMI crew reading this that BA crew will welcome you into our operation if integration occurs. Our internal debates are focussing on a possible future where IAG keep you as a seperate "stand alone" with consequent pressure on BA terms. This is seen as a worst case and a lot of debate is happening now to ensure BMI crews become fully part of BA.

I hope you all can enjoy Christmas knowing that there could be a "Happy New Year" in the offing...............

stubus

22nd Dec 2011, 10:34

EI-BUD

Why do you always have a down on bmi
You didnt listen to WW on the radio this morning he is keeping the BHD/LHR Route

Wycombe

22nd Dec 2011, 10:35

The way I see it, the bmi domestics and near Europe short-haul from LHR will mainly stop (especially where there is direct competition with BA today) - the slots freed up will be used for the much talked-about long haul expansion.

Having said that, it'll be interesting to see what happens with LHR to DUB and BHD (which BA don't operate and haven't in their own right for a good few years)

Some of bmi's niche Middle-East/near Asia routes (basically the old BMed business) could be kept, and would enable BA to (once again) place their brand in these markets where it makes financial sense. Of course, they also compete today is some of these areas (Saudi, as an example).

As often happens in M&A situations, it's the HQ-type functions and roles at bmi that must be at greatest risk. For example, BA might be able to "synergise" some/all of bmi's Airbus crews into it's own operations, which could be at the expense of their ab initio Programme.

ducksoup

22nd Dec 2011, 10:35

One assumes that Woodley et al are having a ball trying to get banks interested in them, after all, they have been there before and couldn't make it work then. Can't be a lot different now except that the banks are a lot tighter!

WHBM

22nd Dec 2011, 10:55

What domination ? Every time I go to Heathrow I see a huge range of carriers operating besides BA/BMI. It's nothing like going to Dallas, or Seoul, or similar, and seeing 90% by one carrier. You can see the same in the UK, at Southampton (FlyBe), even Stansted is heading that way with Ryanair. Nobody has complained about domination there.

When BA withdrew from the regions it wasn't through some fit of pique, it was because a huge range of competitive options from European and Intercontinental airlines had made services from there no longer worthwhile. Some domination !

BA and BMI used to be the key two operators on London to Scotland; now it's BA and Easyjet, which latter have taken the bulk of the leisure market. It really doesn't sustain a limitless number of operators.

theshed

22nd Dec 2011, 10:58

Full integration seams to be the most popular option but there is a hell of a lot of work to go through to make the deal right for everyone involved.

As for routes who knows but I'm fairly sure the middle eastern routes will be kept and prob if possible put on a bigger aircraft one that can be nicely filled up with cargo because from what I here those airbus are operating out of there at max RTOW with cargo that's where the money is on the routes not so much the pax.

Let the fun begin.

Rougueg

22nd Dec 2011, 11:01

If IAG have the option to buy BMI regional if noone else does. What would they do with it?

Does not fit within their current model at all.

Skipness One Echo

22nd Dec 2011, 11:08

Bad news for the travelling public. A fantastic airline disappears, its staff end up jobless, BA has less competition and becomes more arrogant and highhanded in its dealings with its 'customers', its rivals, and the travel industry. Fares go up, choice goes down, and a part of aviation history disappears. And BA control 56% of LHR slots - surely that can't be healthy.

BMI are not fantastic and have not been so since the rebrand where "BMI" was not an acronym and "didn't stand for anything". A truer word was seldom spoken....
BA and BMI do not compete on more than a small handful of routes, they are complementary not competitive.
Most BMI crew will be needed to fly the program to keep the slots.
Fares were kept high in LHR-GLA when the demand vanished but right sized when BA added in the B767 to up capacity. easyJet are a tough competitor in that market and make sure there is no monopoly, indeed far from it.
Any monopoly gained today will ONLY be in routes ending in "-stan"!
As has been pointed out, controlling 56% of slots at your home base is less than say :

LH at FRA
AF at CDG
KL at AMS
AA at DFW
UA at EWR / IAH
EK at DXB
QR at DOH
EY at AUH
FR at STN

Aside from all of that your analysis nailed it.

Juan Tugoh

22nd Dec 2011, 11:10

Having spent that much cash on getting LHR slots to serve the Far East, why would IAG then wind up BD with it's substantially lower cost base than BA?

If BMI's cost base is so much better than BA's, why is it that BMI are and have been losing huge amounts of cash. Lufthansa are selling BMI because they are a money making outfit, rather the opposite. The headline price for the sale of £172.5 million allows IAG to gain a lot of slots for not a lot of money, but they are also taking on a loss making outfit and a large pension debt. The concept that BMI could, with their lower cost base, do anything for IAG without massive restructuring is deeply flawed.

Chidken Sangwich

22nd Dec 2011, 11:14

If IAG have the option to buy BMI regional if noone else does. What would they do with it?

IAG are not interested in either Regional or Baby. QUOTE from their press release:

"bmi regional and bmibaby are not part of our plans and Lufthansa has the option to sell them before completion".

Sir George Cayley

22nd Dec 2011, 11:29

All very interesting and even better that we've got to the bottom of page 1 without degeneration in vitriol. :ok:

This debate will no doubt run and run, but let's remember that IAG already know what they plan to do with their acquisition.

SGC

bluenose boy

22nd Dec 2011, 11:33

The headline price for the sale of £172.5 million allows IAG to gain a lot of slots for not a lot of money, but they are also taking on a loss making outfit and a large pension debt.

The pension will not be moving to IAG, it is being kept by a Lufthansa Subsidiary in the UK.

pointless username

22nd Dec 2011, 11:34

As stated by BA CEO today:

My objective is for bmi to be integrated within British Airways’ operations.

Discuss.....

Lights blue touch-paper and retires a safe distance.

WHBM

22nd Dec 2011, 11:41

BMI are not fantastic and have not been so since the rebrand ......
True. Sorry all you BMI supporters. Some of us recall when London to Scotland had BA Shuttle operation, which in my experience worked brilliantly, 757s, always competent service and crew, etc, and British Midland, very obviously trying harder, A321s, better catering (remember Diamond Service for all ?), tried to stick you on at the last second if possible, all that sort of thing.

Now you have BA, still a good show with a good team, and BMI, things like crew standards still good but some wacky scheduling, ridiculously small aircraft (the Embraers) in use, silly economised catering, and despite this many recent flights I have taken at 25-50% load factors, which when you see it on morning peak services you know something is badly wrong with the sales and marketing side.

To give an example of the loss of service standards, a BMI flight returning from Aberdeen to Heathrow in the evening a short while ago, when the A319 was still in use. Surprised when checking in to be placed in a middle seat between two others "because its full". Aircraft turned out to be a substitute by one of the Middle-East configured A320s, with a very large Business Class section up front that nobody was allowed to sit in on this economy-only domestic flight. Being all sent to the back, for Weight & Balance reasons the rear rows were not permitted either, so the total load (about 42 of us) were squished into the first seven economy rows, while the rest of the aircraft front and rear could be seen to be completely empty.

Anyway, with much transfer traffic at Heathrow for both, the "profitability" depends more than anything else on how the accountants behind the scenes do the revenue attribution for through fares between the two sectors. Being a bit of a beancounter myself I can demonstrate examples of where the books have been cooked (or not) to show either considerable profitability or extreme loss. For BA it doesn't make any difference to the overall cash taken, just an internal reporting point, but for BMI, where Star Alliance long-haul partners grab the lions share of the money, it certainly does.

Businesstraveller

22nd Dec 2011, 11:49

Interesting times. Presume I can expect a single Avios account soon enough containing my BA, BMI and Airmiles miles/points.

ara01jbb

22nd Dec 2011, 12:23

Not unless you spend all your Diamond Club miles on some juicy redemptions before then Businesstraveler, which is what I'm planning. I'm going to miss both miles & cash redemptions and C class redemptions across the *A at 1.5 x the cost of Y :{

LD12986

22nd Dec 2011, 12:25

As stated by BA CEO today:

My objective is for bmi to be integrated within British Airways’ operations.

Discuss.....

Lights blue touch-paper and retires a safe distance.

In the full memo he says no decision has been made about how bmi will be integrated and BA will have to reform the profitability of its short haul business if bmi is to be integrated. It's no secret that BA LHR EuroFleet is no model of efficiency. If bmi's short haul operation was transferred into EuroFleet as it is, then costs would just balloon.

I understand BALPA has been doing a lot of work behind the scenes to secure integration rather than having a separate equivalent of Iberia Express.

Now, I wonder whether another BA workgroup has learned the lessons of the past couple of years that collectively sticking your fingers in your ears when change is coming over the horizon and then throwing your toys out of the pram when the rest of the world carries on without you doesn't work? Probably not.

runway30

22nd Dec 2011, 12:27

The reason that IAG will pay less money if Regional and Baby are part of the deal is the cost of closing them down which IAG will probably do immediately if they are in that position.

Flypuppy

22nd Dec 2011, 12:42

Rougueg

Due diligence was completed at the end of November, which was on schedule. I cant comment on what has been happening behind the scenes (mainly because I don't know!) but my understanding is that Granite are still on track to have things sorted out by end December, or first week in January. With deals like this the devil is always in the detail.

stormin norman

22nd Dec 2011, 12:54

'I understand BALPA has been doing a lot of work behind the scenes'

If they have, their general secretary on the TV this lunchtime appears to know nothing about it.

EGAC is Better

22nd Dec 2011, 13:05

Quote:
There is no business case for the BMI brand surviving, none at all. LHR-BHD / DUB will have the option to be served via Aer Lingus' existing DUB and BFS services, freeing up slots for long haul, as the model states. BA could not make Northern Ireland pay and if anything it's less likely to work now.

Skipness/EI-BUD, whilst I agree that it would be easier for IAG to palm of Belfast and Dublin routes to EI, do EI have the aircraft available to ramp up capacity?

I can't speak for Dublin but I don't see how three daily flights from Belfast to a totally separate terminal at Heathrow will benefit BA. That won't even be enough capacity to support the traffic terminating in London if BD weren't around.

As you guys know, Dublin should be considered a serious challenger to LHR for Northern Irish travellers with Etihad (Emirates adding soon) providing 1 stop services to many destinations east/southish of the UAE and EI/UA/DL/AA all operating westbound providing 1 stop to many destinations in the America's and Eastern Pacific region. If BA think there are enough £'s to be made, they will most likely want their 'brand' operating in Ireland but probably in co-operation with EI.

Short to medium term they will need to retain the majority of the BD A32X aircraft to fill slots. BA currently have no new long haul aircraft arriving until 2013 at the earliest and that is unlikely to change given their aircraft selections. Without minimising the amount of time the current long haul fleet spends on the ground, they don't have immediate capacity to switch BD slots to longer routes and even even if they did, are time limited as to where they could deploy those free'd aircraft without adversely affecting current routes. Perhaps their mates down under could lend them at a cheap price some of the 767's they are looking rid of to plug a gap? When the changes eventually happen I'd imagine the first bmi domestics to be majorly shook up will be MAN and EDI where BA/BD are currently competing.

AC

Ps. No idea how this happened but e t i h a d is being changed to Teahid when I press submit and it isn't an autocorrect at this end!

EI-BUD

22nd Dec 2011, 13:33

I can't speak for Dublin but I don't see how three daily flights from Belfast to a totally separate terminal at Heathrow will benefit BA. That won't even be enough capacity to support the traffic terminating in London if BD weren't around

This is a fair question EGAC but with the addition of bmi to the BA operation (whether integrated or ran as a separate brand) it is unlikely that the bmi flights will be able to accomodated at T5 in the near future, currently some BA ops from T3 and looks like bmi will stay at T1 for the mean time so no great difference to EI offering in terms of terminal, which posed no problem for interlining with BA T1 to T5 at present?

EI-BUD

Skipness One Echo

22nd Dec 2011, 13:42

BA currently have no new long haul aircraft arriving until 2013 at the earliest and that is unlikely to change given their aircraft selections.

BA took new B777 G-STBE last week and G-STBF is due next year, with G-BNLA / D / H as an option to return to service from KVCV, though unlikely, there are options to ramp up. EI are getting A319s from IB so there may be options there too. We shall see.

j636

22nd Dec 2011, 13:47

Aer lingus have aircraft but not enough to increase both belfast and dublin to fil the gap by bmi. Is it possible that ba may take belfast and ei use there belfast slots at dublin

PAXboy

22nd Dec 2011, 13:51

mvvdatabaseBranson will always moan about how unfair things are but I would rather take my chances with IAG, at least they might have some sort of a plan that sees a future for bmi and at least some of its staff. Branson/VS must complain - because that's their job. If the situation were reversed, then IAG would be doing the complaining.

As for a plan? In the past 25 years (since privatisation) the plan has been:

Buy another airline
Asset strip
Dump them

Since BA is the dominant force in IAG, please do not expect the 'plan' to be any different. As I have said, Bye-Bye BMI.

willy wombat

22nd Dec 2011, 15:21

EGAC - this e t i h a d autocorrection has been a problem on pprune for months if not years. I don't know why the mods don't fix it.

PPRuNeUser0176

22nd Dec 2011, 16:03

Jobs to go as BA buys BMI - European, Business - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/european/jobs-to-go-as-ba-buys-bmi-2971291.html)

BMI operates a daily Dublin-London schedule. Willie Walsh said he will maintain Belfast-Heathrow route and will look at the scale of the Dublin –London flight schedule once they take control of the company.

Diesel_10

22nd Dec 2011, 16:11

And they get all those lovely routes to the mid-east back, just as the Sh** hits the Arab Spring:{

Capetonian

22nd Dec 2011, 16:23

BMI are not fantastic and have not been so since the rebrand where "BMI" was not an acronym and "didn't stand for anything". A truer word was seldom spoken....

Whilst it's true that BMI failed to identify and target its market, and this is probably a fundamental reason why they are losing so much money due to poor yields and loads, they are, from a passenger perspective, a fantastic airline.

For sure other airlines control more than 56% of slots at their home base, that doesn't make it healthy. The national carrier in its own country invariably has a dominance which leads to the high handed and arrogant attitude that makes it enemies in its own country. The plus side to that is if I fly SAA out of JNB and they have a tech delay I know they are more likely to find a quick solution than another carrier.

Rivet Joint

22nd Dec 2011, 17:24

Probably a bit late in the day but does anyone else think Eastern Airways would have been a good fit? They were born themselves out of British Airways's regional operation and seem to offer a similar service with good punctuality.

davidjohnson6

22nd Dec 2011, 17:45

If we assume the merger goes ahead unhindered by competition authorities, presumably IAG will be keen to consolidate some short haul flying and use the spare slots to expand long haul - which means a need for something with range.

How many aircraft can BA + Iberia call on from storage in the next 12 months to service this for a few years until Airbus / Boeing can supply some new metal ? Are the aircraft in storage too decrepit for profitable use ?

Alternatively is sourcing aircraft from other Oneworld airlines - or even leasing firms a credible option ?

Boethius

22nd Dec 2011, 17:56

I think you'll find that Willie Walsh works for IAG. IAG is not an airline. It's a holding company. The decision is whether to allow bmi to continue operating as a part of the IAG conglomerate or integrate it into one of the groups airlines. Quite obviously BA would be the candidate for that. But as fas as I can see that decision has not been made yet. If you were WW would you allow bmi to continue in its present form? I think not. Would you allow it to fly as a brand with 'help' from BA ground staff (synergies) while the main focus on expansion to the as yet under utilised markets takes shape over a longer period of time within BA? Possibly. Or would you enter into a massive expansion very quickly to absorb all the slots that are left post regulatory interference and bring all the aircraft into the BA fold as soon as possible? Three ideas. One of them is a non starter in my opinion. Listen to the WW statement at the start of this process and the one given today. There is a subtle difference.

discretionagain

22nd Dec 2011, 18:17

Does anybody else think that the two owners of Eastern Airways might have a financial finger in the pie?

Mr Huxford has been lurking around Aberdeen on almost a daily basis for a couple of weeks now - when most people in the company have never even seen him before. I wonder if they are putting money into Granite.

Peter47

22nd Dec 2011, 18:21

Richard Taylor

22nd Dec 2011, 18:47

Hmm...Huxford, Lake, Woodley & Ross...sounds like a firm of Accountants! ;)

Eastern do have Embraers again...then again, it may be all (mince) pie in the sky. But T3 have been pretty quiet of late.

Iver

22nd Dec 2011, 19:06

Probably already been answered several times, but will BMI pilots now be absorbed into BA and become BA pilots? Is there an integration plan based on seniority?

LD12986

22nd Dec 2011, 19:13

BA will need extra slots for long haul expansion in the long term. If economic forecasts are correct I don't think that BA could fill extra a/c in the next couple of years even if they had them on order.

In the short term expect to see additional frequencies on short haul.

With additional slots they may be in a better position to build connecting banks but LHR will never be a classic hub airport.

On the issue of integration I can understand BALPA wishing to integrate the operation but how will the question of seniority work? Entry date to either BA (or BCal) or BD which would be great news for BD pilots (BA pilots probbaly not so happy) or some more complicated formula? If the latter could be interesting.

Agreed. For all the talk of long haul expansion this will happen slowly over a period of years. If there were really lucrative long haul routes not yet served by BA, they would have moved short-haul capacity to LCY/LGW to accommodate them at LHR.

The 787s will arrive late next year and will be suited to new long haul routes. It is likely that the retirement of some 767s and 747s will be deferred to support long haul expansion.

As for pilots, I think BALPA and its members will be pragmatic enough to accommodate the relatively small number of BD pilots in the BA seniority list for the sake of retaining one workgroup.

I expect BD cabin crew will remain a separate fleet.

NWSRG

22nd Dec 2011, 19:16

Will BA try to absorb all the BMI slots into T5? AFAIK, there isn't the room. Does this open the possibility of a 3rd T5 satellite, or will BA split their operation again across T5 / Heathrow East?

nivsy

22nd Dec 2011, 19:26

Unless us-as poor suffering pax on BMI get to know soon what the issues are in terms of schedule ops we will all walk from BMI quickly (or even quicker than what we have been!)

If we have tickets on BD metal what does this buy out by IAG mean?

Come to think about it - if we have LH tickets with "operated by BD" for travel in April/May can we expect schedule/plan changes?

And finally - sob sob - what about us FF? Now before others say "that is not important" it is - due to the loyalty of many pax with BMI they have survived as long as they have - even though euro routes have been cut back in a sickening fashion over the past 10 years....

Nivsy

LD12986

22nd Dec 2011, 19:32

Will BA try to absorb all the BMI slots into T5? AFAIK, there isn't the room. Does this open the possibility of a 3rd T5 satellite, or will BA split their operation again across T5 / Heathrow East?

IAG hopes to be able to accommodate the bmi operation into T3 when T2 opens.

toledoashley

22nd Dec 2011, 19:34

Its quite fair to say that IAG bought bmi for the slots at LHR, but I think there is still a value in the actual brand.
BA at Gatwick has had a bit of an identity crisis over the last few years, so what about the idea of merging that with bmibaby, and renaming the whole operation bmi? Creating a 'premium' low cost-carrier, but still able to get miles etc... Leaving all the cream for LHR, using 'British Airways'

Just thinking aloud! ...

Dan Air 87

22nd Dec 2011, 20:08

I can still hear the whining of VS that they were unable to get bmi and no doubt they are preparing their a/c for the latest slogan. I hope that BD's brand will survive but all I would like to know is where did BD go so wrong? I think it was when they bought British Med that it may have started but I will be interested to hear others. I flew with them a few years ago and they were a good carrier. Better than BA in most respects.

My thoughts are with the BD employees who despite the outlook have had a narrow escape from joining VS.

LD12986

22nd Dec 2011, 20:28

The exposure to Middle East turmoil was unfortunate but it was only one part of the story, including:

1. Poor brand presence/marketing. The quality of the branding/marketing was way behind that of BA and some of the ad campaigns (remember the "Heathrow's 2nd favourite airlline ads?) were truly bizarre.

2. Woeful IT/revenue management.

3. Constant chopping and changing of the customer offer, eliminating business class, complementary catering for "Blue+" etc. A salutory lesson for all airlines.

4. Loss of "mainstream" destinations that gave the airline broad network appeal.

Ultimately Lufthansa's heart just wasn't in it. If they had appointed a really strong manager who has prepared to rapidly push through whatever changes were required to make it work (after all it has plenty of expertise in revenue management and so forth), things might have been different.

JSCL

22nd Dec 2011, 20:33

Indeed a shame, I always prefer BD over BA on my MAN-LHR hop. But in all fairness, the domestic market hasnt just shrunk due to trains, but I can now fly from MAN usually more cost effectively by avoiding LHR. The fact I can save £2500 on my first class tickets to Aus by going Qatar from MAN vs LHR to Qantas/BA makes it a more attractive offer nowadays.

EasyD

22nd Dec 2011, 21:18

The only thing i care about is will i have a job next year? Hopefully us engineers will be kept on but who knows!?

Isn't there supposed to be an announcement on Friday 23rd? I guess we are not going to hear anything different from what we know now.

Do we jump or wait to get pushed???

xray one

22nd Dec 2011, 22:35

AIG will be ruthless and probably keep only the majority of the pilots and CC. The monopolies commission will roll over, after a short period of time, and allow the merger (throwing a bone of a few slots to Virgin).

In time BA will increase prices beyond a joke because they will have NO competition on domestic routes and will then try to acquire more slots/airlines.

A sad day for the public in general.

davidjohnson6

22nd Dec 2011, 22:43

I thought that Easyjet provided fairly good competition on UK domestic routes to London (albeit not into LHR). They show no sign of going away. There is also the thing known as the train. which has largely killed off O&D air passengers from both MAN and MME to London.

EGAC is Better

22nd Dec 2011, 22:56

BA took new B777 G-STBE last week and G-STBF is due next year, with G-BNLA / D / H as an option to return to service from KVCV, though unlikely, there are options to ramp up. EI are getting A319s from IB so there may be options there too. We shall see.

:ok: completely forgot about the 77W's Skipness. It will certainly be interesting to see how it plays out. I reckon we both agree that for the forseeable future, BA won't have the frames available to swap a massive tranche of the BD slots to new long haul destinations. I think I read that EI's A319's were coming online to help them retire the A321's from the fleet?

EI-BUD, I wondered about T5 capacity and I assume it will be a juggling act. Perhaps they will shuffle some less important routes or those that have less connecting traffic down to T3 to makes space for all the domestics and most important long hauls at T5? Im not sure how things work out with transfers between T1 & T5 at present?

Good luck to everyone at BD and hopefully the majority of your jobs will be a little safer than they are now if this deal is approved.

AC

Copenhagen

22nd Dec 2011, 23:01

BA have stated

"Possibility to co-locate bmi mainline capacity at Heathrow in the Western Campus (T5 / T3) with the rest of IAG, after T2 phase 1 completion in 2013"

Do IB have any spare capacity that could be painted Blue?

EI-BUD

22nd Dec 2011, 23:04

Im not sure how things work out with transfers between T1 & T5 at present?

Hey, EGAC, you make a good point, re they could move services with less connecting traffic to T3, I wonder is this the case with the current services of BA to and from T3, like Madrid is one I think. Is an extention being done at T5 for BA?

I was amazed to learn recently that BA now operate all services on LHR BCN and Iberia dont fly the route!! Slightly off the topic I Know.

Jamie2k9

22nd Dec 2011, 23:05

completely forgot about the 77W's Skipness. It will certainly be interesting to see how it plays out. I reckon we both agree that for the forseeable future, BA won't have the frames available to swap a massive tranche of the BD slots to new long haul destinations. I think I read that EI's A319's were coming online to help them retire the A321's from the fleet?

A321 are staying for now.

PAXboy

22nd Dec 2011, 23:16

Dan Air 87My thoughts are with the BD employees who despite the outlook have had a narrow escape from joining VS.From my pax point of view - I am only sad that VS were not able to buy BD years ago when they first wanted to.

I can still hear the whining of VS that they were unable to get bmi and no doubt they are preparing their a/c for the latest slogan.
If IAG had been defeated by VS then they would be whining. It's called capitalism!

I hope that BD's brand will surviveIt won't. It can't. We are in the middle of the worst recession since the 30s.
but all I would like to know is where did BD go so wrong? I think it was when they bought British Med that it may have started but I will be interested to hear others.Sorry but it was long before that. They were an old fashioned airline. Built on deeply hierarchical lines. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. They were unable to break into the long haul (not for want of trying, I know) but once the LCCs came along - their goose was cooked and it was only a matter of time.

If LH had fully integrated them - then jobs would still exist - but they tried to keep the brand going and separate brands cost a lot of money.

I'm sorry to be harsh but that's how I see it. The intransigence of MB in not selling to RB, has led (almost directly) to where they are today.

StoneyBridge Radar

23rd Dec 2011, 04:15

The fact I can save £2500 on my first class tickets to Aus by going Qatar from MAN vs LHR to Qantas/BA makes it a more attractive offer nowadays.

The fact Qatar don't have first class on the MEL no doubt helps too...:p

JSCL

23rd Dec 2011, 06:51

Take Emirates then. £5308 return random dates next year when it'd cost £7563 return using BA via LHR.

The price differences become clear and Emirates flying to more UK airports than Qatar (I think).

airhumberside

23rd Dec 2011, 08:29

If regional is part of the deal, the price drops.
Nothing in the IAG press release about that. They make it clear they don't want it, but only baby leads to a price reduction if not sold separately

I guess IAG feel they could successfully sell regional if the current deal falls through

airhumberside

23rd Dec 2011, 08:35

The reason that IAG will pay less money if Regional and Baby are part of the deal is the cost of closing them down which IAG will probably do immediately if they are in that position
IAG's press release says nothing about a price reduction if regional is included - only baby. So I guess they feel they could successfully sell regional if the current deal falls through

macdo

23rd Dec 2011, 08:59

I would be very sad to see the rump of Business Air go to the wall, but in reality, is there any long term future for a small independent airline based in the NE of Scotland in the current financial climate?

Flypuppy

23rd Dec 2011, 09:14

Macdo,

I believe that Regional has a good, medium and long term future. There is no need for despondency at this stage. It is my understanding that financing arrangements are in hand and should be in place by the first week of January.

Skipness One Echo

23rd Dec 2011, 09:29

If there were really lucrative long haul routes not yet served by BA, they would have moved short-haul capacity to LCY/LGW to accommodate them at LHR.

Remember that this was tried when they built the Gatwick hub. The key take out was that moving certain routes to LGW left too many high yield passengers stayed behind at LHR and flew with someone else. Hence to have long haul to work at LHR, you need a certain amount of feed from a certain number of places. There is a critical mass if you like, and having that two hub strategy made that a bit of an old mess I'm afraid.
I expect BD cabin crew will remain a separate fleet.
BASSA have caused enough bother, I would expect them to be added into Mixed Fleet, certainly not become part of the more "senior" cadres.

I was amazed to learn recently that BA now operate all services on LHR BCN and Iberia don't fly the route!!
O & D as well as feeding BA long haul whereas I think IB are trying to get everything outside Madrid away from mainline. Sound familiar?

A321 are staying for now.
In fairness, half have already left the fleet as the A319s come on line.

4468

23rd Dec 2011, 10:15

So, now we know IAG are the buyer, do BMI crew prefer the idea of integration into BA mainline, or a new standalone airline called BA Express?

Pros and cons??

WHBM

23rd Dec 2011, 10:31

There is also the thing known as the train. which has largely killed off O&D air passengers from both MAN and MME to London.
This is a recurring myth, that O&D passengers to Heathrow are only heading into Central London. Where do you think all those people coming round the M25 into Heathrow are coming from ? Certainly not from anywhere that finds getting to Euston or Kings Cross straightforward. Our office is near Windsor; to get to Manchester by train, it actually takes you longer to get from office to Euston than the train from Euston to Manchester, for anyone coming from Manchester a day return to us by train is actually impractical. The same is true for all the high-income dwellers (alas not me) BA Gold Card holders who live in the Thames Valley or Surrey. So there continues to be a significant demand.

brian_dromey

23rd Dec 2011, 11:52

I guess that BA could locate all domestic services at T1, or at least the check-in and boarding for those services. Maybe they could do something similar to IE where onward passengers disembark via the rear stairs, into a bus, where you are taken to flight connections. I know bussing is not always popular, but it may allow BA more flexibility.

Sir George Cayley

23rd Dec 2011, 12:35

BA's 734s at LGW (still EOG?) must be getting a bit tired by now, shirley?

Would a BA branded BMi base make any sense? Would it release BA crew to help fill any gaps when the big stuff arrives?

Just 'blue sky' thinking. :)

SGC

Skipness One Echo

23rd Dec 2011, 12:58

AOG not EOG....

west lakes

23rd Dec 2011, 13:12

I'm struggling with the fascination that following the take over that BM & BA would be integrated.
IAG will at that stage own 3 airlines so why must they integrate two of them? If that were the case there would also be a case to integrate BA and Iberia.

In some cases it could be seen as a better option to keep the 3 airlines as seperate operational and financial entities to have 3 potential profit streams.
If nothing else I doubt BA would have the resources to fill the LHR slots with aircraft and crew and moving staff from LGW would be a logistical challenge and costly.

dublinaviator

23rd Dec 2011, 13:32

Nothing in the IAG press release about that. They make it clear they don't want it, but only baby leads to a price reduction if not sold separately

According to today's Irish Times:

"Lufthansa has an option to sell both the BMI Baby and BMI Regional businesses before completion of the transaction.

Ideally, IAG does not want to buy either business. Mr Walsh said “detailed” talks have taken place with interested parties in relation to BMI Regional and some “early discussions” in relation to BMI Baby.

If IAG acquires these two divisions, the price of the transaction will be reduced significantly."

Heathrow to Ireland routes to stay if BMI is bought - The Irish Times - Fri, Dec 23, 2011 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/1223/1224309416380.html)

-

As for all the talk of BMI being 'absorbed' into BA, Willie Walsh has clarified to The Irish Times what will happen:

Mr Walsh said IAG will retain the BMI brand in the “short term” at least but said BMI’s long-haul services from Heathrow would be rebranded under the BA banner.

“BMI has good recognition in the UK, Ireland and some other places in Europe but it’s not a global brand,” he explained.

LD12986

23rd Dec 2011, 13:39

I'm struggling with the fascination that following the take over that BM & BA would be integrated.
IAG will at that stage own 3 airlines so why must they integrate two of them? If that were the case there would also be a case to integrate BA and Iberia.

Because BA and Iberia operate in different markets, London and Madrid, and both have their own brands, areas of market expertise etc. A cross border merger at the operational level of two radically different airlines would be best left filed under "too difficult".

PAXboy

23rd Dec 2011, 15:09

4468... or a new standalone airline called BA Express?That is VERY funny. :ok:

west lakes I'm struggling with the fascination that following the take over that BM & BA would be integrated.I think the cost of keeping another company as a financial entity is prohibitive. In any merger/takeover, the objective to reduce costs, is usually aimed at the back office, accounting, pay roll etc.

If BD was a large company, then there is reason to keep it due to the value of routes that it holds. I cannot see that is the case here. So, save money and integrate them, as it saves a whole financial mgmt/accounting/auditing/reporting cycle - each and every year.

LD12986... merger at the operational level of two radically different airlines would be best left filed under "too difficult".Certainly. This can wait until the next serious round of cost reduction is needed. They can wait whilst the curent round (pensions/pay/etc) goes through. When they have seen how the merger has gone overall, then they can consider this. Probably not for 5 or 10 years.

taxi_driver

23rd Dec 2011, 16:42

Quite difficult to borrow money at present, especially for something high risk like an airline venture. So I would imagine private investors, with aviation experience ala Huxford and co might be having a look.

Bmi regional, without the Bmi bit could struggle. Would they stay in the Star Alliance, no more LHR routes for the parent company, how do they brand themselves...

Wasn't Graeme Ross, part of the new consortium, working for Eastern until recently.

Count von Altibar

23rd Dec 2011, 18:58

There isn't a case to integrate BA and Iberia that doesn't make sense. However, there is a compelling case to integrate bmi into BA or the BA brand. The losses need to be made to disappear and that will be done most likely through integration and re-jigging of the routes/slots. BA will get stuck into sorting it all out unlike Lufthansa, they'll have been planning for this opportunity for a long time.

Dan Air 87

23rd Dec 2011, 19:52

It would be great to have LGW with its own identity again. I agree that the 734's are showing their age but the crews out of LGW are first class and I have nothing but praise for them at all levels.

adfly

23rd Dec 2011, 20:04

I don't think BA will replace all of the 734s yet but I can see possibly a few of the BMI A319's joining the LGW fleet for expansion but nothing massive as far as LGW shorthaul is concerned!

Also the 734's have all had newer seats installed (from the 757's) recently so its only really the fitting's which show the age of them. To be perfectly honest based on what I saw when I flew on one earlier this year 95% of people would probably notice no real difference between the 734 and the far younger A321 which I flew out on from LHR!!

Rivet Joint

23rd Dec 2011, 20:09

As you say how are they going to be branded? Lets not forget Ba regional was making a loss with Embraer 145's so surely without being part of a bigger company (BMI) such an operation will be doomed. Still think Eastern Airways would be a good match.

LD12986

23rd Dec 2011, 20:44

I was surprised at how many of bmi's aircraft are leased. I think the bmi aircraft will be returned to the lessors as and when long-haul capacity is added at LHR.

I don't think leased aircraft will go to LGW, it will add a lot of costs compared to fully depreciated 737s.

Say again s l o w l y

23rd Dec 2011, 21:03

BA are going to be getting shot of their 737's in the not too distant future. Mainly due to the cost of upgrading them to the new legislation coming in with regard to avionics.

Skipness One Echo

23rd Dec 2011, 21:16

Mainly due to the cost of upgrading them to the new legislation coming in with regard to avionics.
What's this about? They're getting rid of them because they'll be over twenty years old by the time they're parked in 2014. That's end of life for most short haul aircraft.

Say again s l o w l y

23rd Dec 2011, 21:36

Tell that to Lufthansa!

20 years old has naff all to do with it. If the aircraft are still serviceable and paid for, then why replace them unless you are forced to? DLH are spending millions on their 73 classics for example.

In the next few years though there will be a massive shift from older aircraft, particularly 73 classics. CPDLC, ADS-B etc are on their way and Boeing don't have solutions to these things yet.
Even for the NG's they're struggling.

Older 73's have numerous issues on the horizon, the avionics are just one of the issues, there are mechanical issues too and structural ones as well.

Add that in with the new regs on the way in regard to avionics, then older B737's are going to crash in value very shortly.

This sounds slightly contradictory, but it's not the age that's the issue, it's how they've been used and what kit they have on them at the moment that's the key to their use in the future.

macdo

24th Dec 2011, 09:06

Flypuppy, I wasn't being despondent, more realistic since the outfit I'm with are struggling and we have a barely a 50/50 chance of being in business this time next year.
I'd be more optimistic if it weren't for the same old faces coming back to 'run' it like the ghosts of Christmas Past.
All you need is mad Bill to return from the Orient and all the jokers would be back in the pack.
I wish you all the best for Christmas and the future.

Sir George Cayley

24th Dec 2011, 15:47

Judging by the booming industry in parting-out a/c I could imagine BA's 734s might actually be worth more broken up than for sale.

LD12986 Did you not mean fully dilapidated? ;)

SGC

ara01jbb

24th Dec 2011, 16:06

I have my fingers crossed, but every time someone describes a small, wholly independent airline formed by a management buyout using regional jets, I can't help but think of one word: Duo.

I wish them all the best, but I remain pessimistic.

WHBM

24th Dec 2011, 16:30

If BA have to take Regional and Baby as well .....

Regional sold on to Flybe; Baby sold on to Easy.

Maybe.

Say again s l o w l y

24th Dec 2011, 17:01

The Regional deal is all but done, so I don't think IAG will have to worry about it. As for Baby, it seems as if things might be nearing conclusion too.

Though, as with anything in business, nothing is sorted until the money is in the bank. This goes for the IAG deal as well. All that's been signed is an SPA. This is the same as Regional. Many a deal has fallen apart later than that.

I'd be surprised if it happened, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

mart901

24th Dec 2011, 19:18

Any idea who is looking to buy regional and baby?

Say again s l o w l y

24th Dec 2011, 19:28

Regional has already been well covered on here. I don't think I want to say who the interested parties are in Baby. It hasn't been released officially and until it is, I won't mention it.

mart901

24th Dec 2011, 19:30

No worries mate! Sensitive issue!

airhumberside

25th Dec 2011, 16:31

Originally Posted by airhumberside
Nothing in the IAG press release about that. They make it clear they don't want it, but only baby leads to a price reduction if not sold separately

According to today's Irish Times
With respect I'd trust IAG on this, rather than a newspaper. IAG are the ones involved in the deal.

Flypuppy

27th Dec 2011, 16:34

Duo, fell down when an investor pulled out at a somewhat inopportune moment, and killed cash flow stone dead.

I am not sure comparisons between bmiRegional and Duo are either helpful or relevant.

CabinCrewe

27th Dec 2011, 17:00

which is exactly what could happen here, so entirely relevant. Theyre are many similarities which dont need going over again

Facelookbovvered

27th Dec 2011, 17:17

The fact is that 99% of bmir route network from LHR is already covered by BA, so come the end of next Summers programe they will likely be gone. I think feeds from regional airports to SN & Lufthansa hubs will probably continue and this regionals future, I would not be surprised to see Lufthansa retain a stake in Regional in much the same way BA have in Flybe 15%?

For the future to compete with Flybe they need either bigger jets or turboprops I think a merger with Eastern is the most likely outcome within two years.

taxi_driver

28th Dec 2011, 14:22

The prospective new owners are buying an established business, but with alot of issues that you would associate with a new startup.

What loyalty if any Lufthansa will have to it is sketchy.

Bmi wasn't exactly a well run parent company but it had a well recognised brand and some standing in the industry, which will have benefited regional.

On its own, regional is a collection of less efficient aircraft and a patchwork quilt of routes. Very vulnerable to attack from Flybe.

Eastern have adapted over the past few years, more corporate/charter non scheduled routes, while retaining a backbone of niche profitable routes, partly driven to avoid a turf war with the likes of Flybe, who have deeper pockets and can sustain a route price war.

Regional will have to adapt in order to survive.

Jamesair

28th Dec 2011, 15:10

There is a current contract with Brussels Airlines keeping a 145 based at NCL to operated 3 daily rotations to Brussels, presumably that will continue.

Granite City Express

30th Dec 2011, 11:24

Regional will have to adapt in order to survive
Really? You think?
It will become a new standalone company and the bmi Regional branding will become utter pointless. I can only imagine that a whole new branding project will need to be done. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

If Eastern get their claws into bmiR, that will not be good for the staff or for Scottish aviation.

tallaonehotel

30th Dec 2011, 12:31

I'd agree with Granite on the Eastern point of view.
Air Southwest is a case in point.
I'd run a mile if Huxford and Lake were involved, just look at the way they treat
their existing airline and staff within. With sheer contempt.

Good luck to Granite and all the guys at BMI Regional.

Granite City Express

30th Dec 2011, 14:18

Air Southwest was exactly what I was thinking about, I have friends who work at Eastern and would leave in a heartbeat. I have heard that there are other people in the Granite team that are less well known, one name I have heard is A regular contributor here, isn't that right Flypuppy?

buildaburger

30th Dec 2011, 15:29

:Ethere's nothing wrong with the way eastern get treated!the two guys who run it are absolutely first class chaps!and we've got valet baggage trucks.
well i guess you'll all get sorted out when eastern get control.
we get chester back and what's left of you will get more changes than dr jekyll.

buildaburger

30th Dec 2011, 21:30

leave in a heartbeat?
not while they're still getting paid
Eastern have been through hard times like many other airlines but the pilots are still employed
The company has'nt been dumped or sold out
And if the the money was doubled'they were given new rangerovers,beds and hot-tub's installed in death row"the corridor at abz,no roster changes and 10 weeks holiday with a payout of £1000,000 on retirement!
guess what?
they would still leave in a heartbeat
maybe people "for a change"should consider what they have and not what bmi.r are not going to get ie.red carpet this way and come and work for us.
I heard through the grapevine that the big cheese at eastern once said
"if they dont like it then they can **** ***
which is exactly what i would say to employees who were moaning about having a job from me
bravo dickie:ok::ok::ok:

The Cleaner

7th Jan 2012, 05:43

Anyone know if there's any update on the progress of the buyout? Reading through other posts things were set to be completed by around this time.

The Cleaner

7th Jan 2012, 05:50

The previous BMIR thread is no longer working, I have recieved notifications and posted in the last couple of days but none of which is appearing on the main thread board? Has the thread been locked? Things were seeming to be getting a bit personal??

So does anyone know how the buyout is progressing? The process seemed set to be completed around now.

Granite City Express

8th Jan 2012, 14:34

Have heard something will be announced by the end of the week.

CabinCrewe

8th Jan 2012, 14:55

The same announcement that was supposed to be the week before ? ;)

Facelookbovvered

8th Jan 2012, 21:13

I heard Flybe were back in the frame?

Flypuppy

8th Jan 2012, 22:13

They have never been in the frame...

EastofEcho6

11th Jan 2012, 09:39

I think Flybe have one or two financial challenges of their own to work out. And I doubt they would want another ERJ fleet, having disposed of the BA Connect machines.

Facelookbovvered

11th Jan 2012, 10:52

Flybe woes may make the new regional investors pause for thought given that Regional fish in an even smaller pond than Flybe with aircraft that fit only a very narrow route profile, we're that to come to pass then are IAG contracted to buy Regional and would it not make sense for them to shunt Regional in to Flybe? who are 15% owned by BA?

Rougueg

11th Jan 2012, 11:43

Does anyone who actually works for BMI Regional know what is currently happening with the company?

embraerFObmi

11th Jan 2012, 12:14

we have absolutely no clue what is happening with the company/sale.

we all come on here to find out!

Dave

The Cleaner

12th Jan 2012, 04:37

This is all starting to seem rather ominous :(. wondering if the buyers have gotten cold feet????

The Cleaner

15th Jan 2012, 15:49

Still no news??? :(

Granite City Express

15th Jan 2012, 16:42

There is a board meeting at Donington Hall where the fate of Regional will be decided on Monday morning.

There is only Granite in the running though, so not sure what there is to decide?

G-FLYB

15th Jan 2012, 18:56

IAG have no means by which to 'shunt' anything into Flybe. They are only a minor shareholder and Flybe have stated they have no interest in BMI - unless they are given numerous millions by BMI/IAG/Lufty etc with which to buy it ;)

Rougueg

16th Jan 2012, 08:44

Hoping that the meeting is a formal board meeting to sign over control of BMI Regional to the new investors.

perhaps this will mean the start of some action for Regional.

JSCL

16th Jan 2012, 10:24

Something new? More like the demise I'm afraid.

Rougueg

16th Jan 2012, 10:42

speculatory twisiting of the knife is not appreciated thank you

JSCL

16th Jan 2012, 10:47

Having flown with BMIR several times and also chartered once, I find their crews in general to be far more smiley and helpful than on the Buses, don't get me wrong. It's a great little airline.

But if what I'm hearing is true - should Granite be successful - it goes either of two ways.

1) Kerplunc after the BMI, LH and BEL commitments are completed.
2) Kerplunc by targeting a start-up model on inefficient jets in an unstable market.

I hear much on the grapevine, little of which is positive.

cornishsimon

16th Jan 2012, 14:36

Surely from IAGs point of view it would be best if baby & regional failed to be offloaded by LH prior to the IAG takeover of BMI. The price would reduce significantly for IAG in this event.

I would of thought that BMIR would be able to be slotted into BA Cityflyer, Baby on the other hand is a different problem.

Just my thoughts on this

cs

Rougueg

16th Jan 2012, 14:57

Was hoping to have heard something by now if Granite City Express's post was correct about the board meeting this morning. I dont just mean through pprune either.

taxi_driver

16th Jan 2012, 16:48

The deal is for IAG to get their hands on Mainline Heathrow Slots.

Add on bits with elderly 737's and regional jets are of no interest. They will be sold off, if a buyer exists, or handed over to someone for a modest sum, or wound down in the most cost effective way.

They have nothing in common with city flyer.

My own view is that as a standalone outfit they may struggle, with 12 aircraft, a mish mash of routes, no identity, and in the current difficult competitive climate.

I hope for the crews sake a way forward can be found.

brian_dromey

16th Jan 2012, 17:05

I would say that bmiRegional fit in no way with cityFlyer, which operates from LCY only, bar some summer charters from MAN and Scotland. It may be possible that a SunAir type franchise in BA branding, but all commercial responsibility with Granite may be possible, at least in the interim.

Baby, on the other hand is a different kettle of fish. Although LCC operations from UK regional airports is not the remit of BA, IAG do have an established (albeit smallish) European LCC player in Vueling, who are now entering the UK market via CWL. It may well be that Baby could end up as part of Vueling UK. For all its flaws, Baby does have a decent niche in the Midlands and potential in Northern Ireland. I feel it is likely that IAG will end up with baby, by hook or by crook and in that scenario would be likely to turn it over to Vueling.

Aero Mad

16th Jan 2012, 17:21

Good post. now entering the UK market via CWL and SOU.

CabinCrewe

16th Jan 2012, 17:39

...and EDI (again)

airhumberside

16th Jan 2012, 17:46

Albert Hall

16th Jan 2012, 18:31

Still no sign of any announcement - or of any funding. All that everyone knows is that it has gone very quiet indeed, and there are ongoing rumours that the financiers behind the deal as originally announced have decided not to go ahead, leaving the management team seeking new money.

11K-AVML

16th Jan 2012, 18:52

IAG do have an established (albeit smallish) European LCC player in Vueling, who are now entering the UK marketwith their fleet comprising of A320s and no other types.

Cyrano

16th Jan 2012, 19:11

Surely from IAGs point of view it would be best if baby & regional failed to be offloaded by LH prior to the IAG takeover of BMI. The price would reduce significantly for IAG in this event.

Why do you imagine that the price reduces in this case? It's to offset the costs which IAG would incur having to dispose of baby/regional (shutdown costs, or the dowry that would have to be paid to a potential acquirer). It's very naive to imagine that somehow it becomes a financially more attractive deal for IAG if baby/regional is still part of it. :ugh:

brian_dromey

16th Jan 2012, 20:17

VY have A319s (or an A319 and more coming), these are ex IB, I believe. As is much of the VY fleet, presumably there are more where those came from. Of course Baby becoming part of Vueling may not be a good thing for staff, Im sure Vueling's T&C's are much lower cost than Baby's, with their inevitable mainline baggage. How staff would be assimilted into VY would be far from clear, if they would be taken on at all.

Unfortunately for the guys and gals at Baby and Regional, these are very uncertain times. I feel sorry for them, the lack of certainty must be the worst. At least if they knew what was to happen they could plan accordingly.

11K-AVML

16th Jan 2012, 21:18

In which case they should jolly well update their website...:\
http://www.vueling.com/EN/vueling/acerca_02d.php

The Cleaner

19th Jan 2012, 12:59

Well it seems the tumbleweed is well and truly blowing across this thread!!
So, does anyone know what happened at the meeting, if indeed there was one? Why the sudden silence? You've got to feel for the employees who seem well and truly left in the dark. I know this is a ' rumour' network but someone must have an inkling as to what maybe going on. To anyone with a vested interest in the future of BMIR it's like having the sword of Damocles hanging over you.
Fingers crossed ay.

frontcheck

19th Jan 2012, 14:08

It is not just the Regional staff who are being left in the dark , all employees in whatever division are having to deal with very uncertain times :sad:

Granite City Express

19th Jan 2012, 14:52

The person I was talking to knows that there was a meeting on Monday, nothing has been decided except that Granite is the only bidder for Regional. That is all he would tell me but I got the impression he knew much more.

Will BALPA be able to tell us anymore?

EI-BUD

19th Jan 2012, 18:26

As I read the comments online (especially on pprune) about bmibaby and bmi regional only having one bidder and some of the commentators seem to be reasonably close to the company, I think that these bidders realise that they are the only show in town, know how desperate LH are to off load the business, so if they are sharp they will be ensuring that they can negiotate downwards the price and T's & C's, that would make sense.

Whether bmi regional is a strong performer or not doesnt matter in terms of being in a strong bargaining position, it simply doesnt fit with IAG/BA or LH.

EI-BUD

Flying Wild

19th Jan 2012, 18:37

Word is there are two interested parties for baby. Negotiations ground to a halt before Christmas due to the IAG/BMI process taking priority.
Nothing is leaking out as people very much want there to be a good outcome from the negotiation process and one of the terms is confidentiality...

One way or another both baby and regional will know what the future holds come March 31st.

runway30

20th Jan 2012, 15:06

Bloomberg are reporting that a deal has been concluded to sell BMI Regional.

Rougueg

20th Jan 2012, 15:30

"subject to certain pre conditions"
Wonder what they are?

Granite City Express

20th Jan 2012, 22:36

At a guess, proof they can pay? It has been the one thing that seems to have been an issue for a while, so I suppose Lufty would want some comfort that they can complete the sale and meet the CAA requirements...

ManUtd1999

21st Jan 2012, 12:40

CabinCrewe

21st Jan 2012, 13:23

Long shot indeed

Aero Mad

21st Jan 2012, 13:31

It's true that a feeder operation for Atlantic might not be such a bad thing for Virgin - it would certainly help to keep numbers up on long-haul routes. However, hubbing from abroad via London is becoming rarer these days due to APD - many people transitting through European airports find it cheaper to do so via Frankfurt, Schiphol or even Istanbul. However, as a domestic and local European feeder it could do quite well.

davidjohnson6

21st Jan 2012, 13:47

Might I enquire as to the source of sufficient slots at LHR to form a non trivial feeder operation and make regional a worthwhile purchase to Virgin ?

Skipness One Echo

21st Jan 2012, 14:04

Regional uses mainline slots and so they hold none of their own, consequently a new buyer would have to start at LHR from scratch with an aircraft uncomfortably small for the competitve environment. VS have have had twenty years at LHR and they still have no feed.....

EuroWings

21st Jan 2012, 14:09

However, hubbing from abroad via London is becoming rarer these days due to APD - many people transitting through European airports find it cheaper to do so via Frankfurt, Schiphol or even Istanbul.

Sorry to detract from bmi Regional, but you don't pay APD on connections. If you're on a through ticket, APD is charged from your first airport of departure to your final destination. So, wherever you transit, you pay UK APD for the whole journey you undertake. If you're on separate tickets, then it's different.

Flypuppy

21st Jan 2012, 14:29

Operating a 50 seater jet into LHR is not viable. As has been mentioned bmiR dont hold their own slots either, so VS will probably not have any interest.

JSCL

21st Jan 2012, 15:17

Well, BMI has been good at feeding VS to date. I think we will see some pax drops if/when BMI is integrated within BA/IAG and it no longer wishes to work with VS.

Montezuma

21st Jan 2012, 17:57

bmi feed to VS is minimal. Half the fleet is at LGW.

You cant seriously consider an E145 to LHR as remotely sensible, unless you can get Govt money to subsidise it.

frontcheck

21st Jan 2012, 18:09

Whilst I agree that operating Embraers into LHR would not work, I can assure you that BD feed to VS is far from minmal.

Cyrano

21st Jan 2012, 20:53

A bit of a long shot - but would Virgin Atlantic not be interested in BMI Regional (obviously presuming IAG cant influence who gets it?). If, and its a big if, they can get enough slots at Heathrow, a fleet of Embraers could easily serve a domestic and northern european route network to feed the long-haul routes. With lower operating costs than the Airbus they might even be able to compete directly with BA.

I honestly don't think this would work.

The slots are the big sticking point, and "if" regional airlines could get slots in Heathrow, a lot of things would be different.

But going beyond that: Virgin's yields are not where they need to be, even for point to point traffic. For connecting traffic e.g. continental Europe to US or Africa, they would be competing with the European home carriers' direct services as well as with a variety of other connecting options, all on established carriers through established hub operations using larger aircraft with much lower per-seat cost than Embraers. In other words, their connecting yields would be even lower than their point-to-point yields. These economics just wouldn't work on higher-seat-cost aircraft like the Embraer.

BD feed to VS is not minimal, it's true. But VS's LHR schedule is spread throughout the day, so the feed is from those routes which (a) have relatively high frequency and (b) have relatively few long-haul connections of their own (DUB, EDI, perhaps MAN). New continental European points are unlikely to meet either of these criteria.

And perhaps a further reason why VS would not be interested: they are as poor as a church mouse and can absolutely not afford a loss-making expansion initiative.

Here's an idea for a (perhaps?) more rational VS expansion: VS could make a play for the LHR slots which the competition regulators will tell IAG to divest, which IMHO will be specific to the LHR-EDI and LHR-MAN routes (as well as perhaps Moscow, Cairo, etc.). They could find an existing A320/737-family operator interested in taking on a Virgin franchise to operate those two domestic routes (and maybe Moscow?) out of LHR. Result: Virgin keeps their feed and grows their network with no cash-out to them - on the contrary, they get a franchise fee. And some other operator gets to use the Virgin brand (and existing BD-VS feed traffic) without having to build their own brand.

C.

ManUtd1999

22nd Jan 2012, 09:13

I didn't realise Bmi Regional ran off mainline slots and didn't have any of their own. Setting up a regional carrier essentially from scratch is a non-starter.

TCX69

22nd Jan 2012, 23:29

A few changes to the Summer 2012 timetable. Should be announced this week.

CGN ends
MUC ends
VIE 1x Daily
BCN continues

TCX69K

MainDude

23rd Jan 2012, 05:10

Too lazy to go search what happened... Could anyone please tell me what factors lead to bmiR's demise before DLH arrived?

Aero Mad

23rd Jan 2012, 06:56

Let me google that for you (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bmi+regional+history)

Rougueg

26th Jan 2012, 10:46

Where did Virgin come from all of a sudden?

BMIr have been bought by the private investor group "Granite" subject to finances.

What is uncertain is where the finances will come from and / or what the timescales of completion will be.

Skipness One Echo

26th Jan 2012, 10:56

within BA/IAG and it no longer wishes to work with VS.

Don't BA already have some form or relationship feeding VS? Family friend insists they booked GLA-LGW-sunny places with VS and BA on one booking.

le grand fromage

26th Jan 2012, 16:27

VS and BA will have an interline agreement in place to allow VS to sell on to BA and viceversa but without codeshare. The issue will be at what rates BA sell their domestic sector to VS and whether that will change once there is only one option available. In the past BD took action in the European court successfully against EI as I recall for refusing to interline, but an increase in price shouldn't be a problem as long as not designed to prevent VS from being able to interline at all. VS costs may therefore increase and they may have to eat the increase to remain competitive. Certainly won't be good news for VS.

VeroFlyer

26th Jan 2012, 18:26

I think you'll find flybe would be a far better bet as a feeder for Virgin. They already have extensive routes into and out of Gatwick and Manchester. If they where to take on BMI regionals slots into LHR then operating E175/195's would be far more viable.

JSCL

26th Jan 2012, 18:32

Mr R Sole

27th Jan 2012, 00:06

The BAA at LHR have very little interest in encouraging regional sized aircraft (<100 seats) and I am sure their response to a potential new operator using such aircraft, would be lukewarm at best.

Luxair were the last 'regional operator' to serve LHR and the BAA made no effort in hiding their desire to see Luxair operate at non peak periods only or to sell their slots to an operator that would be using larger aircraft. The latter scenario is what BAA ideally wanted and that is what happened and Luxair moved their London operation to LCY.

VeroFlyer

28th Jan 2012, 11:25

And that is why Heathrow can no longer sustain being the UK's primary airport. If the government do not act soon to put together plans for a new hub airport in the South East area, LHR will become less and less important to the world economy and ultimately the people of the UK will loose out. England needs a hub airport that regional airlines like flybe can feed into from the regions. If death is to become of BMI Regional then this will be another nail in the coffin for UK regional aviation.

merchant sailors

29th Jan 2012, 06:00

Don't KLC operate some of the KLM daily flights from AMS on FK70's and EMB190's into LHR?

JSCL

29th Jan 2012, 10:01

KLC do fly F70's, yes. Also LOT fly E190's in to LHR.

The Cleaner

29th Jan 2012, 18:00

So, thread drift aside does anyone have any news regarding BMIR's fate. Does seem to be a very well kept secret :oh: ???

Facelookbovvered

29th Jan 2012, 20:16

The cheque in the post Guv, honest:rolleyes:

taxi_driver

31st Jan 2012, 10:41

Talk at Aberdeen is that the money has not been forthcoming, and staff are being kept in the dark. Other than finding a private investor with deep pockets, and quickly, I cant see a happy ending.

Crews are looking at other opportunities, and based on shabby treatment so far, I cant blame them.

Chidken Sangwich

31st Jan 2012, 12:34

Taxi - I had also heard the same (finances not forthcoming/available) last week from a business associate. However, he didnt say that staff were being kept in the dark, more along the lines of just not knowing what was going on.

Rougueg

31st Jan 2012, 12:43

Something i have not understood is why Lufthansa have not kept BMIr.
After all BMIr is a profitable entity.

It could provide a useful business feeder from the UK's regional airports to Frankfurt.

Feeding long haul business class flights from Frankfurt on Lufthansa.

There must have been a strategic or commercial decsion to dispose of BMIr.

Unless it was simply a case of "bin everything BMI quickly"?!

frontcheck

31st Jan 2012, 12:57

Perhaps this is the problem. Bmir appear to be profitable at the moment possibly because they "piggy-back" on the back of Bmi for most of their back office functions. If they had to go it alone, it could be another story.

Rougueg

31st Jan 2012, 13:05

Even that being so why would that matter to Lufthansa who have the Back Office to support a feeder / charter operation.

Just strikes me as a lost opportunity for Lufthansa.

brian_dromey

31st Jan 2012, 13:24

I presume where you have typed "LHR" you mean "DLH" or simply "LH"?

Rougueg

31st Jan 2012, 13:27

Because BMIr could fill a different role other than their other interests eg Lufthansa cargo??

Comapring a cargo operation to BMIr is a little odd anyway. Let alone Lufthansa flight training?

Everyone knows BMI Baby / mainline leaks money fast. Not sure why Regional should be tainted with the same dirty brush though.

In reality its not important as Lufthansa are selling, merely trying to understand the reasoning. but perhaps thats where the problem lies, my premise relies on there being reason!

davidjohnson6

31st Jan 2012, 13:54

Even if we assume bmi regional makes money as a standalone outfit, LH retaining it would seem a bit like keeping a remote little dot in an empire. Regional makes its money by flying UK centric routes - it doesn't do a lot of flying to Germany that LH cannot do on its own metal using core LH back office processes. It seems unlikely that regional will be turned into a UK equivalent of Air Dolomiti. Keeping regional only burns up more LH management time. Either regional has to survive as a standalone or it has to be part of an airline which has or wants to have a strong UK focus.

taxi_driver

31st Jan 2012, 16:28

Lufthansa have their own feeder services, and the German workforce is well unionised, which could make integration difficult...

Fleet replacement will also be in their minds. The 145 and 135 are not bad aircraft, but the competition are running about in efficient turboprop and slightly larger more modern embraer models.

Dont forget Bmir have been running a fair few services for mainline, on a wet lease type basis, ie they were paid whether aircraft were full or empty, which also skews the accounts slightly.

Rougueg

1st Feb 2012, 08:23

Some good points here.
Thanks

MainDude

1st Feb 2012, 15:11

Oh wow, thanks. Tried that already, and saw there's not much history out there. Asked someone, much better. Interesting.

RAFAT

2nd Feb 2012, 02:41

MainDude - Before becoming BMI Regional, they were British Midland Commuter and before that Business Air. I seem to remember Business Air was quite a nice profitable outfit.

Enecosse

2nd Feb 2012, 02:58

A nice outfit yes, profitable not so sure. I think it teetered along the edge of the abyss, nearly going over a couple of times only to be saved by Lufthansa money/contracts, before joining the Airlines of Gt Britain Group. Rumour was before joining the above there was funds to operate for about a week.

taxi_driver

2nd Feb 2012, 12:10

If the consortium cant come up with the money. Where does that leave Bmir?

The only logical places I can see them going are to Eastern, or into Flybe (Ba have a reasonable financial interest in them). I suspect both of these options would lead to route/fleet cuts in some form.

commit aviation

2nd Feb 2012, 16:22

Back in the days of Business Air, British aviation was a very different beast & operated in a different market. Certainly in the intervening years the tax regime for airline passengers has changed beyond recognition. The fleet they operated if I recall was Saab 340's.
A number of those routes which may have made sense back then would struggle to make money today, on a 340 let alone an E135/145.
I'm not saying these people couldn't make it work, but I can't see a return to the old days & old ways being a good model for the present day.
Either way, here's hoping for some news soon: all this uncertainty is no fun for the employees caught up in the current process.

buildaburger

2nd Feb 2012, 22:26

In this economic climate,Can you imagine anyone putting money into a company that's losing money?
If the answer is yes then you probably own
1.Catch me if you can "special edition"
2.Recordings of Panam
3.All the Harry potter dvd's
4.Cloth wing's sewn into your pyjamas.
And one or both of the following
A huge mortgage
A hefty car loan
And Eastern are not interested!,They're favouring putting loads of thier
spare cash into the rebirth of Dansette Record Players,,"A far safer option".
Reality advice from the buildaburger!!!:E

BAladdy

3rd Feb 2012, 02:22

If the consortium cant come up with the money. Where does that leave Bmir?

The only logical places I can see them going are to Eastern, or into Flybe

How about to Loganair?.

If loganair took on BMI Regional they could use the larger E145 aircraft to open up new direct routes on behalf of BE from scottish regional airports to Europe and Scandanavia.

The 4 smaller E135 aircraft could be integrated into the Suckling Airways fleets. Working alongside the D328 aircraft the E135's would allow Suckling to offer specialist charter flights to more destanations

G-AWZK

3rd Feb 2012, 15:03

How about to Loganair?
Depends how much Scott Grier has left in his piggybank. Last I heard was that he was considering his options as far as retirement is concerned and could be looking at a sell out himself. If Granite can't complete the deal soon, we could be into uncharted territory as the IAG deal is supposed to complete before the end of the first quarter this year. It doesnt leave much time for a new party to go through the sale process.

buildaburger, try and contribute something sensible instead of beer fuelled rubbish. Tw@t.

Enecosse

3rd Feb 2012, 15:24

Loganair occupy a niche market with assistance from Brussels and Flybe. I don't think they would have any appetite for taking regional on and try to make a go of it.

Skipness One Echo

3rd Feb 2012, 16:09

I would say Loganair survived 50 years, by NOT doing things like buying out BMI Regional.

nef

3rd Feb 2012, 16:17

I think LOG have been around for so long partially because they are generally quite cautious and haven't really gone for large expansion. Taking on BD Reg and their 145s would be a fairly big change with the jets, international ops etc and I think they'd maybe be wary about that. Grier was quoted in the papers the other day saying LOG were well placed to take on routes that other carriers dropped, so their strategy re BD Reg may be to wait for them to go to the wall and then take on the type of routes that fit for them and their Saabs, like maybe GLA/EDI-LBA.

What do SN think of all this, given that BD Reg op quite a few UK-BRU routes that feed into SN's BRU hub?

Sonic Bam

3rd Feb 2012, 17:46

I would suggest Loganair have more than enough on their plate integrating Suckling into their organisation.

LHRKLBD

3rd Feb 2012, 19:09

So subject to final approval, BD mainline will be absorbed in BA Operations,

So how is this gonna effect:

Flight Deck
Cabin Crew
Ground Staff

?

EI-BUD

3rd Feb 2012, 22:59

Does anybody know what will happen to Diamond Club miles? Will they be transferred to Avios, will LH want them transferred to Miles and More or will they be useless?

I have built up enough to take me around the world and I dont want to wake up one fine and realise that they are worthless...

Any advice???

EI-BUD

ETOPS

4th Feb 2012, 07:15

EI-BUD

I think you have quite a few months before this needs to be looked at. This is the quote from Wolfgang Prock-Schauer and seems to suggest that W12/13 will be the start of the integrated business.

After completion has been achieved, for a period of time bmi will operate under its own AOC. Until further information is given to you, the current set up of the company remains unchanged. We need to carry on managing the bmi business for 2012 as normal and our summer 2012 network is currently planned without any major changes

A quick e-mail to the Diamond Club might be a start?

EI-BUD

4th Feb 2012, 07:52

Thanks ETOPS, I tried to email via the log in for diamond club. The only communication I could make was feedback, I'm not sure there is a commitment of a reply. There didn't seem to be an email address in the contact us section. Only emails to departments seemed to be specifically so.
Will take another look.
Ei-bud

The_Doctor

4th Feb 2012, 09:26

On another site for frequent flyers the opinion seems to be that BD will exit *A on completion of the deal. There's quite a lot of speculation about the future of DC but no-one really knows yet. But there's a lot of mile burning going on ...

mutualswap

4th Feb 2012, 10:25

Flight Deck - about 90% ok IAG will just get rid of the dead wood,poor sickness records
Cabin Crew- see flight deck
Ground Staff- tricky one i suppose some at LHR will be offered jobs , out stations without BA bases prob ok for while to see if route continues,those with bases probably at risk, those at the hall prob 80% will be made redundant poss 20% offered positions with IAG

cant see it going any other way :{

as for the timescale i suspect bmi will cease to exist after summer 2012 :(

Rougueg

5th Feb 2012, 13:58

BBC News - Stuck on the runway (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-16895228)

Douglas Frasier being as optimistic as ever.

whatever the outcome would like to know it now!

The Cleaner

5th Feb 2012, 14:09

Thinks he's been reading too much PPRUNE!! :=

andyy

7th Feb 2012, 09:27

I certainly had it confirmed today from a friend at the Hall that they had been told last friday that IAG intend to integrate BMI in to BA and the implication was that there would be no need to retain the Hall. TUPE rules will apply & that includes redundancy terms for those that won't or can't move or who BA don't want. Interestingly, the hall is a listed building so BA can't just leave it to rot - they have to have a plan to preserve the listed part until, presumably, its sold.

bmaviscount

7th Feb 2012, 11:15

I have heard Belfast mentioned
Will they keep Dublin?
middle East routes?

globetrotter79

7th Feb 2012, 12:28

I thought SMB still owned the Hall?

LGS6753

7th Feb 2012, 13:58

If he does, he'll no doubt have a lucrative, watertight lease in place....:D

Say again s l o w l y

7th Feb 2012, 15:19

Nope, as far as I'm aware, it got lobbed into the deal with Lufty and so is owned by bmi. This is not necessarily a good thing!

davidjohnson6

7th Feb 2012, 17:43

Wadn't there some rumour about some large estate agency having been approached last year ?

ara01jbb

7th Feb 2012, 17:49

JSCL

7th Feb 2012, 18:44

The Hall is near the circuit, motorways and EMA; it could easily become a four or five star hotel. Premium rooms in the original Hall, cheaper rooms in the newer blocks behind. Much more sensible proposition than an airline

Shhh. I'm straight down to the office of my asset manager/financial planner the moment it comes on the market.

Say again s l o w l y

7th Feb 2012, 22:22

The Hall is near the circuit, motorways and EMA; it could easily become a four or five star hotel. Premium rooms in the original Hall, cheaper rooms in the newer blocks behind. Much more sensible proposition than an airline

I'm afraid that option isn't really open. There is already more than enough hotel capacity at EMA and since the F1 debacle at Donington, then spending the money required on the place is not such a smart prospect.

To be honest, with all of the running costs, I have a feeling that you'd struggle to give it away at the moment.

johnnychips

7th Feb 2012, 22:28

the F1 debacle at Donington

Please could you enlighten us non-petrolheads, unless you're referring to a budget hotel that tried to open?

jerboy

7th Feb 2012, 22:51

Photos of the interior here.

What an odd little place, you wouldn't think it had been the HQ of a fairly large airline since the year dot. Everything looks so... temporary.

Its a stunning building mind and is sure to fetch a few quid... Maybe just a little black in the generally red BD balance sheet. :\

Say again s l o w l y

7th Feb 2012, 23:35

Please could you enlighten us non-petrolheads, unless you're referring to a budget hotel that tried to open?

Oh it's a long and dull tale of pipe dreams, idiocy, Bernie Ecclestone and a chancer named Simon Gillett.

Basically, Gillett persuaded a lot of people that he could take the F1 race from Silverstone to Donington Park. He signed a long term deal with Ecclestone but then couldn't raise the funding to bring the track and facilities up to spec.

It dragged on for ages and nearly bankrupted Donington Park in the process. They did some work, but it was shoddy and consisted of digging a big hole and causing the track to subside and also wrecking a load of perfectly good tarmac around the rest of the track.

Eventually Bernie pulled the plug and the race went back to Silverstone and Donington Park was left with nothing having given up the motoGP race to Silverstone as well in pursuit of F1.

So Donington is now a shadow of itself and in motorsport terms has been put backwards 10 years. It's now operating again, but without the draw of big races, then the need for massive new hotels is fairly minimal.

EastMids

8th Feb 2012, 13:00

Can't see The Hall being a viable attraction on the market as offices again if and/or when the bmi group move out... It's just too far from anywhere really significant with a limited catchment area for a clerical workforce (witness bmi's need to bus staff in from cities/towns in the region each day), too difficult to upgrade to true high-tech standards, and too large for a start up. Only realistic chance of a sale, I'd have thought, was for a major hotel/hospitality chains to buy it and convert it into a hotel cum conference venue

Andy