controllers wanted in Spain

[clr4takeoff]

Hi everyone,

Anybody has any clue on that add I just saw on FlightGlobal.com?

Controller opportunities in Spain - 1401283803 - Flightglobal Jobs (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/controller-opportunities-in-spain-spain-1401283803.htm)

And this other one that i just saw on safeskys.co.uk/atc-in-spain.htm

Safeskys Ltd (http://www.safeskys.co.uk/atc-in-spain.htm)

Please PM me if you guys have any contact person or whatever that could be helpfull (advices welcom!)

Thanks

[eglnyt]

For the first you might like to take a look at this earlier thread.

http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/464885-nats-take-over-spanish-atc.html

[ZOOKER]

If English is the 'international language of civil aviation', why do applicants need to be fluent in "ICAO Level 4 Spanish", (whatever that is)?

P.S. How long does it take to acquire this qualification? :E

P.P.S. Is there a dispensation if you already hold a Santander bank account?

[Danscowpie]

If English is the 'international language of civil aviation', why do applicants need to be fluent in "ICAO Level 4 Spanish", (whatever that is)?

P.S. How long does it take to acquire this qualification? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif

P.P.S. Is there a dispensation if you already hold a Santander bank account?



English is not the "international language of civil aviation, technically, according to ICAO, English, Spanish or Russian may be used, how they arrived at that I don't know, but that's the mantra they preach.
Each country has the right to insist that pilots and ATCOs speak the native language at a proficiently technical level.
ICAO give guidance as to they pre requistes for these standards and candidates are required to meet them.
Although RT may be predominantly conducted in English at major airports, other smaller airports may restrict communications in anything other than Spanish to non native pilots. Nearly all landline communications will almost certainly be conducted in Spanish.
It takes as long as it takes you to be able to speak and read Spanish to a reasonably good level to "get this qualification", you won't get the job without it, (adopting the "Brit' abroad policy", i.e. shouting loudly in English, will not suffice:E).

By all means give me your Santander bank account number, sort code and PIN and I'd be happy to get you to the front of the queue;).

[Akhorahil]

You need spanish lvl 4 because if you have to talk with other airport personal (fire brigade for example) they don´t have to sepak english.

Also, a private pilot (visual TFC) does not need to speak english to fly here. So lvl 4 is required.

The offer is to work on some towers, no idea about economic conditions but can´t be more than 50.000 eur per year, I think even less than that.

[eastern wiseguy]

but can´t be more than 50.000 eur per year, I think even less than that.

FerroNats will want a lot more work for a lot less bucks than the present incumbents are used to.

[clr4takeoff]

Thanx for giving your opinion about ICAO language.... but really that was not the purpose of the thread! :)

I'd like to know if any of you guys did already apply and if yes, what happened then?
Anybody already working for that company? and if yes what are the conditions?
I'm considering to cross the atlantic (the other way this time) if the offer becomes to be serious. Spanish is not a problem as I'm fluent and frequently visiting friends in Spain...
Thanks again for giving clues!

[Liftdumper]

Everybody can send his application. However in the end the only thing that matters is whether you know someone on the inside.

Welcome to Spain.

[ILS 119.5]

"Nearly all landline communications will almost certainly be conducted in Spanish."

I doubt it especially if they are talking to the French

there is an "ICAO Rating Scale" on the internet just google it, I can't get the link onto here for some reason

[LEGAL TENDER]

I doubt it especially if they are talking to the French

And why would the likes of Valencia, Alicante, Jerez Tower (the list goes on) need to talk to the French?

[Sonnendec]

Hi,

If the privatization finally takes place, the conditions would be much worse than before: around 35-42.000 per year working around 1600 hours. It´s the only way the new companies would make it profitable.

Best regards.

[whitelighter]

Lets face it though, the Spanish have been living the life of Riley (along with the Greeks and a few other countries currently engaged in totally ******* Europe up) so its only really a reality check.

[mts1]

Sonnendec:

Just a question through pure ignrorance, I don't really understand why you say companies wouldn´t make profit if theire staff worked less hours and earned more than what you quote... For instance, the main reason (apparently) why AENA has been having the financiall difficulties it has had, is mainly because of all the works/construction of airports they built around spain,(followed, by the typicall ill managment and administration: but that's another cup of tea) and not because of the high salaries the ATC's had . So, if AENA could afford to pay those salaries, why wouldn't any other private company be able to?.

[belk78]

I am really looking forward to seeing what happens with "ferronats" after the 20th of November. If you finally apply please, let us know the results.

[samotnik]

And what will happen on 20th November?

[Danscowpie]

And what will happen on 20th November?

Its the date that the electricity bill in Spain has to be paid by, after which the lights go out....:E

[Sonnendec]

Sonnendec:

Just a question through pure ignrorance, I don't really understand why you say companies wouldn´t make profit if theire staff worked less hours and earned more than what you quote... For instance, the main reason (apparently) why AENA has been having the financiall difficulties it has had, is mainly because of all the works/construction of airports they built around spain,(followed, by the typicall ill managment and administration: but that's another cup of tea) and not because of the high salaries the ATC's had . So, if AENA could afford to pay those salaries, why wouldn't any other private company be able to?.

This is due to the conditions of the licitation (i don´t know if this word is right in english, i´m completely ignorant in english economic technical vocabulary). It´s not an "old days" privatization, it´s just an agreement for 5 years during which the new companies assume the management of these towers with their own controllers for a certain amount of money. After very few calculations, those are the conditions they would have to impose to be profitable.

Best.

[Sonnendec]

And what will happen on 20th November?

General elections in Spain: the political party that is most likely going to win has already said that they will maintain the towers ownership in State hands.

[Danscowpie]

General elections in Spain: the political party that is most likely going to win has already said that they will maintain the towers ownership in State hands.

Spanish friends tell me that this is just another very hollow political promise which they will not follow up on.
Everyone is aware that there are far more pressing priorities in Spain, keeping the very significant costs to the tax payers down and maintaining even the most basic public sector services going being just two of a very long list.
Privatision of the services at the airports is essential just to keep them going.

[clr4takeoff]

Thanx for all of the comments!
If anyone applies, please let us know of the result!

[mts1]

I see...
Thanks.

[belk78]

It's not a promise but their electoral manifesto. But, oh, your friends told you that? I am sorry, I didn't know, then, obviously, you are right, they need to privatise the air traffic control in Spain to pay our medicines. Not the airport services, but the air traffic control. Thanks very much for clearing things up, and if you or your friends have some more info about this issue, please, don't hesitate in telling us.

[chevvron]

There's extensive info about employment in Spain on Safeskys Ltd (http://www.safeskys.co.uk) but you'll need to speak Spanish if you decide to apply.

[mts1]

Oh boy, no need to get so uptight about the issue belk 78. Chill.

[Danscowpie]

Belk

When there are public services being reduced to the minimum, public sector workers not being paid and the Spanish economy in dire straights, do you really think the electorate will care for attitudes such as yours?

I detect that you are possibly one of the ATCOs who will be most affected by the proposed change i.e. You are not in a position to take early retirement and the generous severence package which goes with it. Or indeed, the offer of early retirement, the package and to return to work as an OJTI on a contract basis paying around 500 euro per day?
The facts are that FerroNats and SAerco will need experienced Spanish ATCOs to take up management and training positions to oversee the transition period and to cover for the forseeable future.
The fact is that there are 100s of potential trainees out there who can fill the basic ADI positions which are now being advertised and many of them are undertaking their training in the UK to equip them with a UK licence (valid worldwide).
Privatisation is the only way forward, if you are an experienced Spanish ATCO, you would be very silly not to take advantage of the possibilities whilst they are available.

[ZOOKER]

Cow-pie said:-
"The facts are that Ferronats and SAerco will need experienced Spanish ATCOs to take up management ant training positions to oversee the transition period".
REALLY?
Unlike in the U.K, where many management positions are held by individuals with little or no ATC experience. Indeed the manager in charge of training,
(allegedly), does not come from an ATC background, and neither did the individual who was in post before. Some of these individuals, allegedly, are jealous of operational staff, and the skills they possess.
Having overseen the transition, will these 'managers' then do a runner, like those involved in a recent U.K. NATS transition?
"Privatisation is the only way forward".
EXCELLENT!
So six years from now Spanish ATC will still be short-staffed, BUT, will have the luxury of the second glitzy corporate re-branding to look forward to.

[Sonnendec]

When there are public services being reduced to the minimum, public sector workers not being paid and the Spanish economy in dire straights, do you really think the electorate will care for attitudes such as yours?

I detect that you are possibly one of the ATCOs who will be most affected by the proposed change i.e. You are not in a position to take early retirement and the generous severence package which goes with it. Or indeed, the offer of early retirement, the package and to return to work as an OJTI on a contract basis paying around 500 euro per day?
The facts are that FerroNats and SAerco will need experienced Spanish ATCOs to take up management and training positions to oversee the transition period and to cover for the forseeable future.
The fact is that there are 100s of potential trainees out there who can fill the basic ADI positions which are now being advertised and many of them are undertaking their training in the UK to equip them with a UK licence (valid worldwide).
Privatisation is the only way forward, if you are an experienced Spanish ATCO, you would be very silly not to take advantage of the possibilities whilst they are available.

I completely disagree with every word of this post. Respectfully, of course.

[mts1]

Sonnendec: please feel free to post your opinion with respect to. I wonder why, that's all.

[belk78]

Danscowpie, keep on guessing if you want, but stop "detecting" about me or what can affect me, please, you don´t know me at all.
Spanish economy is in dire straights, absolutely true, and let me tell you, it´s not the only one. Perhaps you are mixing up expectations with reality. Anyway, we´ll see it in a few weeks.

[Bring back Tridents]

In response to some of the previous comments, I think it's worth remembering what happened in the UK some time ago (1996?). Then, the Labour opposition's Andrew Smith, a Shadow Minister at the Treasury, stated that 'Our air is not for sale.' About 20 minutes after Labour were elected to power, that statement was forgotten and plans were made to privatise NATS. It should be obvious that what parties say when they're in opposition and what they do in government aren't always/usually the same. Maybe Spain will be different.