ATCO early retirement..have you taken it? How was it for you? [Archive]

ron83

22nd Oct 2011, 13:44

We used to have early retirement,but not anymore.:\
But I can tell you,those who chose when it existed never complained or wanted to get back. But they all also got other positions within company. So they keep their salaries +/- and got pension. There is no need any more to pass medicals,assessments,language testing, etc. Most of them don't have to do shiftwork or night shifts. But the most important they don't have any responsibility anymore.:}

alfaman

22nd Oct 2011, 14:01

I have only second hand info but, if you're talking about retiring from working, as opposed to retiring from operational ATC but continueing to work, a friend of mine summarised it thus: as soon as you change your maths calculations from working out how much money you would "lose" by retiring early, to working out how much money you need to maintain & support the lifestyle you want to live...you'll probably retire the next day! That's what he did, & he hasn't looked back, since.

I'd say early retiring was the best career move my dad ever made...albeit he has health issues one would expect at his age, he's healthier & happier than I ever recall him being when he was working. Dieing in harness is no reward, as far as I'm concerned; I aim to follow his example, for possibly the first time in my life :)!

Loki

22nd Oct 2011, 15:15

I left NATS at the age of 55....great idea. However, I was in the position to sell myself back to the company as a contractor............loads of advantages there, until I had repaired the hole I made in the lump sum.

As said above, no medicals anymore, worked by agreement (when I wanted to), no issues over annual leave, and best of all, not having to put up with all that corporate crap.

Finished altogether now, now regrets, not one.

ATC Watcher

22nd Oct 2011, 16:45

Basically iof you can afford it, go for it. Enjoy your hobbies while you are still fit and healthy. What is the point of having more money at 60 or 65 if you cannot use it ?
As a friend of mine use to say, a shroud has no pockets.
I went at 55, continued to work one week a month for 3 years on safety projects (where I could choose the days and hours ) .That was great as well .
Never regretted a single day..

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

22nd Oct 2011, 17:47

I retired just after I became 58. For the previous year or two i worked part-time (4 on 6 off). I'm glad I went early because it meant more time with my wife. However, there are certain aspects of the job I still miss but nowhere near enough to regret what I did. If I had my time over I'd go earlier!

Minesthechevy

22nd Oct 2011, 18:39

I wasn't an ATCO, but I took the EG at age 52 so that I could get a life.

I can only echo what alfaman and HD have said - but you have to bear in mind that you're going to be on that pension for a hopefully long time, so start wearing out that copy of Excel right now and don't make any decision until you've looked at EVERY possible contingency.

Do I miss the job? Ho Yus, I got to work with some very talented people, and also HD (just joking B!!). The job, sure I miss it, but do I miss the 'politics' and mis-management (which ranged from the incompetent to the downright unacceptable)? Not a jot.......

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

22nd Oct 2011, 19:20

Thanks M!! Guess you'll be hollering for the wrong team tomorrow...

DC10RealMan

22nd Oct 2011, 19:56

I retired at 50 with no enhancement. I took a tremendous hit on the pension and lump sum, but at the end of the day it is only money.

My personal quality of life and physical wellbeing has improved beyond all recognition and I am a happier person for it.

Minesthechevy

22nd Oct 2011, 20:06

Difficult one, B.

Not many folk I talk to about it say the team have played at all well, but the fact is that they ARE in the final, so I hope they pull a rabbit out of the hat and it isn't too much of a rout.

The sight of me in my Union Jack shorts down at the builders merchants on the day they beat England .... - no, best not imagine that.:eek: But it wasn't pretty.

EGLL19791986

22nd Oct 2011, 20:27

I would have loved to have gone at 50. Unfortunately the B******* changed the
rules so now I'll have to wait 'til 55! Will miss some parts of the job and the people but not all the BS that goes with it (which has increased tenfold over the last few years especially at that lovely place just up Sopwith Drive). Regards to HD, DC10 and Chevy!

Lon More

22nd Oct 2011, 21:26

Compulsory with Eurocontrol at 55. However ezxcptions are possible, in the Ops Room if there's a controller shortage but more usually in the Sim. (I was surprised at some of the names that turned up there. Maybe a case of who, not what, you know.)
I walked free medically at 53 and was invited to come back "just as a Supervisor, not a Controller", a request I was very happy to turn down.
By 55, you're starting to slow down, mentally and physically. Canteen meals rot your guts and trying to get any rest on a night duty is impossible unless your employer has built a five star hotel next to the Ops. Room.

401167H

22nd Oct 2011, 22:48

I left at age 51 with an ATSA VR offer. I also took an early pension option, cleared my debts, paid off my house, and decided never to work for anybody else ever again. And like DC10, I'm not worried about how much more I may have had if I had stayed on to the bitter end. Regrets? - none whatsoever! No up-at-stupid o'clock; no office politics; no work induced stress; no worrying about annual leave, sick time off work, w&nker management etc etc etc - lovely jubbly!

Its easier than you may think to adjust your lifestyle and spending requirements to a lower monthly income if you really want to, but you have to be 100% comfortable that it'll work for you.

I've yet to meet anybody who has taken early retirement from any walk of life and later regretted their decision. It was always an ambition of mine to try and achieve an early retirement date without it being down to poor health or going to prison :ooh: and I am pleased (and grateful!) that this is one particular ambition that has now been fulfilled.:ok:

marble bar

23rd Oct 2011, 01:39

There seems to be a pattern here. I went at 57 and have not regretted it for one second, like the others I miss the people but not the BS, I am doing something I have wanted to do for years, ie live in the sun not rainy Cheshire! My basis was that the pension was the bedrock it will arrive every month so if you can afford to live on that the lump sum is a big bonus.

konstantin

23rd Oct 2011, 02:27

401

My case and attitude is very similar - right age, birthdate, scheme, employer, etc, it all came together very nicely. Seems to be a few categories of people who choose to hang about;

- Some people stay in for the income, slaves to their disposable - mortgage, a younger family perhaps - personal imperative circumstances, fair `nuff.

- The affluent retiree aspirant - "ooh, I couldn`t possibly retire on less than [insert obscene amount of annual income here for sitting on one`s bottom]" - strokes for folks. A lifestyle trade-off choice. Possibly work till you drop then. Go for it...

- Others innately have an ongoing interest in their job and location, whether operationally or in a support role eg instructing - if one is happy with such a paid hobby arrangement - enjoy, if it floats your boat...no sarcasm, I mean it genuinely.

- Have heard of some people significantly older than I being quoted as saying - "naah, won`t leave yet, don`t know what I`d do with my time" - riiiight.....

I`d had enough of the shiftwork, the evolving corporate and industrial direction, had a chance to bail - no agonising over the decision and certainly no regrets since. And I sure as hell don`t wake up in the morning scratching my head muttering "Hmm, what am I gonna do today?"

Given a few (preferably less-than-expensive!) pastimes, a debt free situation, preferred lifestyle end-state location, a presentable package/pension - it`s not too far off winning the lottery by the standards of many people "out there"!

As a good friend has said over many years in relation to life choices and decisions, and I stress without introducing any suggestion of rampant hedonism - "You`re dead a long time".

No gloating BTW, just a very large grateful sigh - left behind a lot of good people who won`t be able to avail themselves of the option I had. Lost count of the "you lucky bastard!" quips whilst shaking hands around the room on the last day, that was probably the worst part of walking out the door for the final time...

slatch

23rd Oct 2011, 06:17

Went at 49, biggest reason was to get away from shift work. Actually enjoyed the job but the swing, swing, day, day, mid was taking a toll. I don't regret it at all. The actual monetary reduction was not that great. In the US when you get rid of AMT, lower tax rate, regain credits and being allowed to write off rental losses on income under $100,000, my monthly net was only around $2000 less. Plus like others mentioned there is a big demand for experienced ATCO's for consulting and other programs. If you want to work further that is not an issue and you can do it on your own terms. Plus, most of my friends went at the same time and we have plenty to keep us busy. Unfortunitly, it seems the opportunity for ATCO's and pilots to retire early in the future will be greatly reduced.

ex-EGLL

23rd Oct 2011, 13:28

I was made an offer I couldn't refuse at 54, never worked since!

The income took a bit more of a hit than I planned, but lower tax brackets and less deductions helped.

Best thing that ever happened.

ex-egll

Brian 48nav

23rd Oct 2011, 15:41

I got my medical 'early go' a few months before I was 54. This meant with LOL I was not much worse off. The saving on commuting offset the drop in income, and after a time all my neighbours remarked that I seemed much happier and looked more healthy.

I must confess that the thought of Low Vis etc at LL every winter until 60 was daunting and I'm pleased to say that I think I got out before there had been too much deterioration in the grey matter! As I didn't join until age 27 I would have had to go to 60 to get a decent pension and was dreading it!

AND, I didn't have to work with MinestheChevy any more! Sorry Mick!

The late Bobby Cowell went at 52, and despite taking a big hit in the pension never regretted it. R.. D..y went at 56 as did B.. H.....r and they love retirement.

Lots of my pilot mates stopped at 55 and none has any regrets.

Mr_Grubby

23rd Oct 2011, 15:44

I was medically retired age 52. Crohns Disease. CAA Medical Branch were not happy about the amount of medication I am on.

Since then, 8 years, I have never been fitter. No more getting up at half past stupid o’ clock. Regular hours, meals etc. It all helps.

Ok, I still have the Crohns, but it is manageable thanks to my new lifestyle.

There has not been a single day that I have woken up & thought, I’m bored. What am I going to do today. It just hasn’t happened.

I have written my autobiography and there is just not enough hours left in the day. Don't know how I fitted work in before.

I would say to anybody if you get the chance of early retirement, go for it.

I do miss my colleagues at work, but I don't miss talking to the kites. We had a great larf.

What I don’t miss also is the inadequate, inept, downright useless excuses we had called Management. Shocking. With one or two exceptions the whole tawdry lot were a disgrace.

Clint. :ok::ok:

Brian 48nav

23rd Oct 2011, 16:16

Hear Hear Clint:D:D:D

Keep taking the red wine for the Crohn's.

Brian W

edinv

23rd Oct 2011, 16:35

Took early retirement on my 56th birthday, however I was part-time for the last 12 months. - Its been great, no regrets at all! :):ok:
That said, a little forward planning helped - I paid 'stand alone' Additional Voluntary Contributions (AVCs) for a number of years. This helped to reduce the overall loss in terms of lump-sum and actual pension received for going early. I was subject to the 'standard pension abatement' and a small loss in AVCs due to the Equitable Life situation. - Thanks to former Union negotiators in the UK state sector (CAA NATS HIAL & their predecessors) for achieving such arrangements.
I do feel sorry for the up and coming generation as their pension arrangements are not going to be as favourable. :( :O

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

23rd Oct 2011, 17:47

I was dead worried about how we would cope on my pension as I only had 31 years service - how much would we need to draw from savings each month, etc. As it happens, we haven't needed to draw any and we have more saved now than when I retired. Those with 40 years must be living like kings!

Talkdownman

23rd Oct 2011, 18:50

HD, nats Director Human Resources withdrew the 40 year pension on 1 Dec 2006 after 7 (that is only seven) days warning. I remember it well. I had provided the required 3 months notice to retire under its provisions on 3 Jan 2007 only to find it snatched away from my clutches. It also completely threw the CAA Pensions Admin Department and Prospect. Outrageous. I still possess the shameful correspondence from nats.

nats employees must BEWARE, they would do well NOT to trust nats to not change the rules after providing notice to retire early.

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

23rd Oct 2011, 20:17

OK M, but I'm not sure I understand, I always thought "x years" referred to your time in service. For me it was 31 years, which determined how much pension I received. So what happens now to those who have 40 years service?

Talkdownman

23rd Oct 2011, 20:49

The '40 year rule' allowed members to draw an unabated pension under 60 years of age once they achieved 40 years service with CAAPS (for example those who had joined at 18). nats considered this to be discriminatory under the Employment Equality Age Regulations (1 Oct 2006) because one needed to have joined at a young age in order to benefit. The HR Director's defence was that "existing benefits had to be defended whilst at the same time mitigating the risk of many millions of pounds of costs to the Scheme in the event of a successful complaint of discrimination" and that he had to "make the changes without Trade Union agreement". I know of no other ex-Civil Service organisation who interpreted those Regulations in this manner.

AIUI a member who joined under 20 now has to work until 60 to draw an unabated pension. I consider that the sudden withdrawal of the '40 year rule' was, in itself, iniquitous discrimination and reflects badly on nats. How nats can have the temerity to impose this without any consultation of any kind beats me. They are not to be trusted.

Minesthechevy

23rd Oct 2011, 21:29

Brian, I am shocked, dismayed, hurt beyond belief, wounded, affronted, gutted, troubled, upset, and tormented that you, and everyone else I ever worked around, should say such a thing.

In fact, my flabber has never been so gasted.

Sorry to hear about Bobby Cowell - I remember when he bought his Porsche, he said he'd had a mid-life crisis which cost him £36K to fix.

Clint - good luck with the Crones, say hello to Steve the DJ if you still see him. Thanks for voicing what I REALLY think of many of the management.

Minesthechevy

23rd Oct 2011, 21:35

TDM -

M, I feel saddened for you personally - after all the kack-handedness that nats dealt you wrt LATCC and EGLL you must have felt positively murderous when they did that at the last moment.

obwan

24th Oct 2011, 08:22

I worked in ATC, all operational, for 40years and loved every single minute of it, retired at 58 and not regretted it one bit. There comes a time when you know it's time to go. The one big bonus is the total sense of freedom you feel you have.

Brian 48nav

24th Oct 2011, 09:56

Mick, I think you got your own back by putting the 'Evil Eye' on me, as I dreamt about LL Twr last night! Bloody nightmare!

I really miss the guys and girls I had the privilege of working with, especially the lighting operators - Dick with his fund of jokes, booming Pete Kemp, pulling Tee's leg when Southampton lost, Roger wetting himself one morning when my first 15 minutes of transmissions were complete garbage ( as usual I hear you cry!), Phil Kerai offering to smile so you could see him in the dark etc etc.

I thought Bobby Cowell's sad demise was widely known - 5 years ago, to celebrate his 60th birthday, he went on holiday to Zimbabwe and was travelling in a taxi from Victoria Falls with his travelling companion, Celia wife of Ian Bielby (exLATCC & DM), when they were wiped out by a lorry coming in the opposite direction - it was overtaking on a blind bend!

Malc & Bren

On my 65th birthday last month my pension dropped to £35148 as the VPO finished, I'd like more but have nothing to show for my first 10 years of work before CAA, so 'C'est La Vie'. Old age pension for both Anne and me kicked in, so that's another £9000 approx - still better off than most people in the land!

My advice - if you can afford to go 2 or 3 years early, do it. Why people work beyond 60 amazes me - remember Derek Harriss? Worked to 65, boasted that he was the highest paid ATCO in the job ( ATCO1 pension and salary) and died before he was 66! Very sad.

Regards Brian W

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

24th Oct 2011, 10:54

OK Brian... be assured that you get very considerably more than me and we survive quite comfortably. Bonus is that neither of us drink or smoke!

I'm still not with this 40 years stuff. Surely it's the "40" bit which is used to calculate one's pension? I get 31 x 58ths (or is it 59ths?) so irrespective of what NATS calls it, if one retires with 40 years service the pension is 40 x 58ths?

I still think of Bobby Cowell on No.2 screaming "Get me out; I'm doubly incontinent"!!

windowjob

24th Oct 2011, 14:13

That's right Bren that's the way it's calculated assuming you go at 60, if you go before age 60 they take some off your pension (abatement I think it's called) as they reckon you're going to live longer. This is watered down considerably by the ATCO early go scheme.
They had a rule that you could go on full pension if you'd done 40 years no matter what your age was i.e. you didn't lose anything if you went at 58 say, but snatched that away.

I went at 58 taking a small hit thanks to the union guys who negotiated the Atco flexible retirement scheme.
Miss a load of people (not senior management with daft ideas that just seem to keep coming round with every new boss) miss the practical part of the job, don't miss nights or the seemingly endless paperwork.
Miss all the daft lot from my time LL and the things we got up to - no you couldn't print them!

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

24th Oct 2011, 15:22

OK, understand now. Thanks.

On the beach

24th Oct 2011, 17:19

ATCO early retirement..have you taken it? How was it for you?

Yes.

Beats working for a living. Mind you, I used to say that about controlling! :E

The commuting is the hardest thing nowadays. From Scotland to, well, anywhere in Europe. Decisions, decisions. Thought I'd left all that behind. None of this new-fangled, lighter-than-air stuff for me, though. It's cars and ferries, for me. Not subject to those pesky, striking controllers (French?). Ooh, er, better not say that. Oh, too late. :O

I do like the non-productivity bonus that appears each year in my pension, though. What was it this year? 5% and I didn't even have to threaten to withhold my extremely valuable services. And what did those extremely, hard working ATCO's earn as a bonus? I'm not sure. Bet it wasn't 5% though.

I do miss management, though. :ok:

No, that's wrong. :hmm:

I do mis-management now, but that'll cost any ANSP's reading this an awful lot. (PM me for details) :E

On the beach (and staying here).

Brian 48nav

24th Oct 2011, 19:01

No2 son is at Swanwick and said he got 5.5% this year, better than our 5.2%!

I make him buy all the beer when we meet, hee heee!

Brian

On the beach

24th Oct 2011, 19:09

Hi Brian,

said he got 5.5% this year

He must be in senior management, then. :O

Is he over 21? :E

OTB

Minesthechevy

24th Oct 2011, 19:36

Brian

Buy the beers? On what he must be raking in it'd be a good malt if he were mine.

I mean, what's the point of having them if they don't help you out in yer old age? They've got you there quicker than you would have been otherwise....

Brian 48nav

24th Oct 2011, 19:58

No, he's a chip off the old block - not interested in promotion at all, just a humble ATCO2.

Thinking about it - not very humble at all!

I'm sure he said 5.5% plus maybe 3.5% next January, certainly over £100k now with OJTI & LCE supps included. I'm sure someone here will confirm or deny!

On the beach

24th Oct 2011, 20:15

not interested in promotion at all

That's the spirit, low profile, he'll go far.

Tell him to volunteer to do the EG and leave roster. If he does it correctly he can retire at 55.

Worked for me, everyone thinks I'm still on leave. :E

OTB

Mr_Grubby

24th Oct 2011, 20:36

Low profile. Yes, good idea.

It's only recently that I have told my parents what I did for a living. They are both 83 now.

I always told them that I played piano in a whore house in Soho. They seemed happy enough.

Clint. :ok:

Minesthechevy

24th Oct 2011, 20:43

Dammit, Clint, I knew that I'd met you somewhere before ATC........

chevvron

24th Oct 2011, 23:30

I didn't go early, I went at 60 + 2 months. My intention was to continue part time as I knew my unit would become short staffed, drawing half pay plus pension. 3 Days before I 'officially' retired, I received a copy of an e-mail from HR to pensions telling them not to pay my pension as I was not retiring. I immediately contacted pensions to tell them I was retiring, and on the chosen day, I walked rather than stay on. So now I'm a FISO and it's great fun. I work with another NATS retiree, plus an ATSA who does it in his spare time (amongst others who are not NATS)
PS After 3 years, my old unit is still short staffed.

BDiONU

25th Oct 2011, 08:50

I guess it's horses for courses. I'm 55 in early Feb so should, perhaps, be looking at retiring. Instead I'm taking up a new job with a different company and planning on doing that for at least 5 years. Then I'll think about retiring :)

BD

Talkdownman

25th Oct 2011, 09:01

Prior to retirement during during a unit-wide individual review with one's line-manager I requested part-time (50%) after the 40 years just to ease out of shiftwork and into retirement. This was denied by nats as there was 'no business case'. Six months after the retirement nats invited me back part-time (50%). I declined as the salary was pathetic being a starting salary because of broken service.

I would have thought that the availability of part-time work would be beneficial to both parties enabling the retiree to adjust to less working / more time off, and for the employer to enjoy the flexibility a pool of experienced and versatile ATCOs. It seems to be all knee-jerk with nats...

windowjob

25th Oct 2011, 10:28

For my last 6 months, after I started taking my pension, I stayed on part time, it was the best thing I did. 4 on 6 off and no nights or paperwork, wonderful.:)
As far as I was concerned I'd retired but stayed an extra 6 months to help out due to shortages

Like chevvron, I too nearly got caught up with HR and their stupid ways. :mad:
They deem that you only retire when you finally walk out the door. What you have to do is "draw down" your pension whilst going part time then "Retire" when you actually leave. They wanted to change all my service/salary details as according to them, I'd retired and came back as a new employee for 6 months.

Get out a.s.a.p. and enjoy it, I can't understand people who want to stay on full time after 60.